Social NintenZone Social 5 - Thanks, Everyone

[Mythra]

Me watching Turn Left: "Yo, today the 24 has a scheme that doesn't look that bad, plz gimme a closer look camera."

"Thanks, camera."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh yeah do you have one for the water chick?

Which one? Colleen? Nepty? Leila? Here's all 3 in the same order;

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Me watching Turn Left: "Yo, today the 24 has a scheme that doesn't look that bad, plz gimme a closer look camera."

"Thanks, camera."

its funny its the hooters car that gets a close up as it fails much like the food joint

 

[redfeatherraven]

No, I'm not out of my mind. Marble Zone Act 1 has a fairly low skill ceiling. It's an easy speedrun to pull off because in terms of physical layout, it's easily the smallest level in the game. It's just quite dense and does a lot with it's space, but it's also pretty linear.

I play at a moderate level and I get around the same time as that guy in Marble Act 1 for that reason. Other levels that are shorter in his run take much longer at a moderate level as there are more routes and such to optimise your run with that you need to figure out.

Please don't accuse me of being out of my mind when you're the one who hasn't even played the game in years yet is trying to act like they know it inside out. I know you seem to think numbers are the end all be all, but they mean diddly squat without the proper context and knowledge of other aspects.

And even without all that, none of what you said counters my point at all - I didn't say Marble Zone isn't the longest zone. I said it isn't plodding. The times you posted for Marble Zone are all less than a minute and a half, one is less than a minute too. If you consider that plodding or overly long in ANY video game, then you'd have to be pretty impatient.

The plodding points come in when user agency is removed or the full intended mechanics of the system are tested for either no or miniscule progress.

Examples of removing agency include waiting on the spike platforms to drop, the pistons to lower or raise, even waiting for the spikes to lower during the lava flow outrun near the beginning of Act 2 (a pretty tense moment, especially if you mistimed a jump).

If you don't have a perfect understanding of the jump mechanics, you're left waiting for columns to raise and lower outside. If you don't think far outside the box on the invincibility frames, you're waiting for platforms to swing. You need to consider both in order to avoid waiting while blocks lazily float across streams of lava, and at one point the speedrunner couldn't even avoid that.

From 0:19-0:41 in Marble Zone Act III he just sits waiting for the block to get in position to launch him to the next section of the run. I want that to sink in. In a game ostensibly about speed and momentum, he spent slightly more than a quarter of the time in the entire act sitting and doing nothing.

Meanwhile, consider this run of Sonic 2. Same site, also top recorded time. Here's a breakdown by act:

Emerald Hill Zone
0:20
0:36

Chemical Plant Zone
0:23
0:39

Aquatic Ruin Zone
0:24
0:38

Casino Night Zone
0:29
0:57

Hill Top Zone
0:40
0:56

Mystic Cave Zone
0:33
0:42

Oil Ocean Zone
0:34
0:40

Metropolis Zone
0:54
0:16
0:47

Sky Chase Zone
2:06

Wing Fortress Zone
1:44

Death Egg Zone
0:49

Now it's worth pointing out that some very glitchy skips were used in multiple sections. Metropolis Act II is a prime offender. And after a rewatch I'm not going to act like praising the design of anything in that zone isn't like putting lipstick on a pig, although one defense I might offer is that you won't spend a quarter of your time actively waiting for the game to play itself at any point within.

In fact the only times I saw the runner stop in the Sonic 2 run were either when he was lining up to abuse a glitch, entering a spin dash, or for less than a second in Wing Fortress zone when he waited on his platform to move downward. Or when waiting for Robotnik to finish exploding at the end of a level, but that's a commonality in all classic Sonic games.

At a moderate level of skill you might find other sections in Sonic 2 where slowing or stopping momentum might occur - lowering barriers in Mystic Cave Zone, the "eruption" sections and springboards in Hill Top Zone, half the crap you'll run into in Casino Night Zone (similar to what you'd run into in Spring Yard Zone), and platforming segments in Wing Fortress Zone. Heck, Sky Chase Zone is basically autopilot, but at least you're actively doing things onscreen while it moves you forward - destroying enemies, collecting rings, dodging shots. If it was sped up (and I wish it was), it'd feel less like a break and more like a shmup.

You can add the shifting square platforms in Chemical Plant, the rising columns and many of the underwater sections in Aquatic Ruin, and the elevators and launching platforms in Oil Ocean to the list too if you'd like. Although the Chemical Plant squares were entirely skipped in the speedrun, and none of these sections keeps you longer than a second or two. The nut-and-bolt platforms in Metropolis Zone are an effective analogue in terms of boredom; I at least appreciate that my actions are having an effect, rather than making my presence irrelevant as in Marble Zone, but it also feels like a slog to get a bare minimum of momentum, and that may be even worse for some.

But outside of Sky Chase (which we can probably both lay into if desired) none of these sections will you get so immensely bored you resort to playing with the camera to pass the goddamn time. During a speedrun.

Your point is countered. Which zone would you like to dissect next?

 

[MainJPW]

The 32X is so bad. All I have is the worst version of Doom by far, and that Knuckles game.

And Sonic CD and Jurassic Park for the 32X

Did you have fun with that "Knuckles" game? I don't think I've seen you talk about it.

Personally I think Chaotix would've been better off had it been designed like Sonic 3&K, it's probably the weirdest game in the franchise and takes some time to get used to. I do like the way it looks though, VERY dreamlike, it's like CD and Ristar mashed together.

 

[Aetheri]

Stupid Question, but Mario Kart's got a decent single player mode as well I presume?

 

[Mythra]

its funny its the hooters car that gets a close up as it fails much like the food joint

This scheme was ok actually (except for the logos of course), but tbh, the 24 schemes have been super pooper scooper since Gordon retired, that's why sometimes I forget the car is there.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Dang, it looks like I missed out on a Samurai Jack discussion...

Spoiler

I'm kinda conflicted on the way last night's episode ended myself but I'm not freaking out over it either way like I have heard a lot of other fans are. At this point I'm just wondering how the story is going to be wrapped up within the next two episodes, especially considering the finale is apparently only as long as every other single episode (was anyone else hoping the finale would've been an extended 45 mintes to an hour long?).

And I guess there's not much of a point in using spoiler tabs since they weren't used much in the earlier discussion, but eh.

 

[Coricus]

Stupid Question, but Mario Kart's got a decent single player mode as well I presume?

I wouldn't say I'd go to it if you're looking for an in-depth single player experience, but it exists.

There's two things you can do. Try to win cups of four races against NPCs at four different speed levels and the third speed level mirrored, or race against computer ghosts of staff members that worked on the game. Completing those things earns you some Gold things (Kart, Wheels, Gold Mario) that you can't get otherwise.

If you win a cup at the third speed level, it'll auto-complete that cup for the first two. I personally went up from the bottom since it's my first Mario Kart, though.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

nothing better then listening to anime radio while falling asleep only to hear them play songs from xxxholic and Galaxy Angel. God this station is playing good songs

 

[Chrono.]

Did you have fun with that "Knuckles" game? I don't think I've seen you talk about it.

Personally I think Chaotix would've been better off had it been designed like Sonic 3&K, it's probably the weirdest game in the franchise and takes some time to get used to. I do like the way it looks though, VERY dreamlike, it's like CD and Ristar mashed together.

Don't forget that great soundtrack.

No doubt it influenced Mania's current tunes.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Did you have fun with that "Knuckles" game? I don't think I've seen you talk about it.

Personally I think Chaotix would've been better off had it been designed like Sonic 3&K, it's probably the weirdest game in the franchise and takes some time to get used to. I do like the way it looks though, VERY dreamlike, it's like CD and Ristar mashed together.

What wouldn't be better off designed like S3&K?

Chaotix was pretty fun though. Mechanics took some getting used to, and the semi-random nature of your companion was occasionally a pain, but since you could handle most situations just rubber banding through them you weren't completely hosed even if you lucked into Fatso or 'Splode.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

HOLY **** they just hit me with TANK!

i love this radio station

 

[Aetheri]

I wouldn't say I'd go to it if you're looking for an in-depth single player experience, but it exists.

There's two things you can do. Try to win cups of four races against NPCs at four different speed levels and the third speed level mirrored, or race against computer ghosts of staff members that worked on the game. Completing those things earns you some Gold things (Kart, Wheels, Gold Mario) that you can't get otherwise.

If you win a cup at the third speed level, it'll auto-complete that cup for the first two. I personally went up from the bottom since it's my first Mario Kart, though.

Yeah, I expected the single player wasn't going to be very robust...Mario Kart's better known for it's multiplayer and pure racing mayhem against others....but as someone who usually plays games by myself I just wanted to know if there actually was something for me to do on my own...I do log in a lot of playtime while I'm at work, and I don't have access to internet while at work so online multiplayer is out of the question...

Thanks...

 

[allison]

Me watching Turn Left: "Yo, today the 24 has a scheme that doesn't look that bad, plz gimme a closer look camera."

"Thanks, camera."

brb deleting all my posts due to feelings of inadequacy

 

[Mythra]

Knight Dude CyberHyperPhoenix

Welp

Spoiler: DBSuper

Majin Buu will "sleep out" of the Tournament and Frieza is the possible replacement (lul no Yamcha).

This sucks for Buu fans, even if he already got a nice fight with Basil.
While a Frieza vs Frost would be a cool (get it?) thing, I think we had enough of him.

WHERE IS MAH CELL?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Doesn't Mahvel have one of Hulk's grabs have him jump and swing his arms around before throwing/slamming the foe away?
Because if so Ex-Aid needs to stop all these references

 

[powerprotoman]

so note to everyone just because you CAN do 48 races on baby parkwith items turned off to grind coins dosent mean you should....two days in a row once every other day is fine tho

 

[Knight Dude]

Knight Dude CyberHyperPhoenix

Welp

Spoiler: DBSuper

Majin Buu will "sleep out" of the Tournament and Frieza is the possible replacement (lul no Yamcha).
View attachment 128963

This sucks for Buu fans, even if he already got a nice fight with Basil.
While a Frieza vs Frost would be a cool (get it?) thing, I think we had enough of him.

WHERE IS MAH CELL?

You gotta like how everyone is telling Goku this is a horrible idea. Couldn't they get Dabura? Unless it was filler, he reformed, no?

I know they probably won't get Trunks so they don't **** with the timeline and all.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Knight Dude CyberHyperPhoenix

Welp

Spoiler: DBSuper

Majin Buu will "sleep out" of the Tournament and Frieza is the possible replacement (lul no Yamcha).
View attachment 128963

This sucks for Buu fans, even if he already got a nice fight with Basil.
While a Frieza vs Frost would be a cool (get it?) thing, I think we had enough of him.

WHERE IS MAH CELL?

Spoiler

I T S R E A L

Seriously wtf. I really hope they pull another bait and switch and Cell ends up joining the team after Frieza spits in Goku's face. I'd imagine that on its own would redeem the fact that Buu is going to sleep through the tournament.

 

[Mythra]

You gotta like how everyone is telling Goku this is a horrible idea. Couldn't they get Dabura? Unless it was filler, he reformed, no?

I know they probably won't get Trunks so they don't **** with the timeline and all.

Dabura probably became so pacifist that he may lost any will to fight. But it would be interesting to see him again; does turning someone into stone counts as a kill?

Spoiler

I T S R E A L

Seriously wtf. I really hope they pull another bait and switch and Cell ends up joining the team after Frieza spits in Goku's face. I'd imagine that on its own would redeem the fact that Buu is going to sleep through the tournament.

Spoiler

Cell has a lot of poential; more rational than Frieza, considering the latter would sabotage the team just to have Goku deleted.

Also Cell has Saiyan cells and Frieza cells; Blue Golden Cell?

 

[Knight Dude]

Dabura probably became so pacifist that he may lost any will to fight. But it would be interesting to see him again; does turning someone into stone counts as a kill?

Spoiler

Cell has a lot of poential; more rational than Frieza, considering the latter would sabotage the team just to have Goku deleted.

Also Cell has Saiyan cells and Frieza cells; Blue Golden Cell?

You know what would really be cool? Making Pikkon a canon character. I mean, a guy who can keep up with SS2 Goku and still probably pushes himself is no slouch.

Though a bait and switch with Cell instead would be funny.

 

[Kurri ★]

Go FCC yourself

You know, it's a real shame that even Net Neutrality is somehow a controversial topic. I've seen arguments claiming that Net Neutrality is horrible, and they weren't by people who had anything to gain from it being gone, just random blokes who don't understand various issues.

 

[praline]

Which one? Colleen? Nepty? Leila? Here's all 3 in the same order;

View attachment 128957 View attachment 128958 View attachment 128959

Nepty, and zi guess she doesn't have art. lol

 

[Chrono.]

Knight Dude CyberHyperPhoenix

Welp

Spoiler: DBSuper

Majin Buu will "sleep out" of the Tournament and Frieza is the possible replacement (lul no Yamcha).
View attachment 128963

This sucks for Buu fans, even if he already got a nice fight with Basil.
While a Frieza vs Frost would be a cool (get it?) thing, I think we had enough of him.

WHERE IS MAH CELL?

Spoiler

Idk how to feel here. Power scale wise Frieza makes total sense since he's equal or somewhat below SSJ Blue in power but he IS, like, Goku's archnemesis. It's pretty weird, even for him. But I guess it's a desperation move so it could be okay.

I also don't like how they screwed Buu over two tournaments in a row now. I mean I could think of a couple of dudes in the line up we could've done without *coughtienroshicough*

 

[ChikoLad]

The plodding points come in when user agency is removed or the full intended mechanics of the system are tested for either no or miniscule progress.

Examples of removing agency include waiting on the spike platforms to drop, the pistons to lower or raise, even waiting for the spikes to lower during the lava flow outrun near the beginning of Act 2 (a pretty tense moment, especially if you mistimed a jump).

If you don't have a perfect understanding of the jump mechanics, you're left waiting for columns to raise and lower outside. If you don't think far outside the box on the invincibility frames, you're waiting for platforms to swing. You need to consider both in order to avoid waiting while blocks lazily float across streams of lava, and at one point the speedrunner couldn't even avoid that.

From 0:19-0:41 in Marble Zone Act III he just sits waiting for the block to get in position to launch him to the next section of the run. I want that to sink in. In a game ostensibly about speed and momentum, he spent slightly more than a quarter of the time in the entire act sitting and doing nothing.

Meanwhile, consider this run of Sonic 2. Same site, also top recorded time. Here's a breakdown by act:

Emerald Hill Zone
0:20
0:36

Chemical Plant Zone
0:23
0:39

Aquatic Ruin Zone
0:24
0:38

Casino Night Zone
0:29
0:57

Hill Top Zone
0:40
0:56

Mystic Cave Zone
0:33
0:42

Oil Ocean Zone
0:34
0:40

Metropolis Zone
0:54
0:16
0:47

Sky Chase Zone
2:06

Wing Fortress Zone
1:44

Death Egg Zone
0:49

Now it's worth pointing out that some very glitchy skips were used in multiple sections. Metropolis Act II is a prime offender. And after a rewatch I'm not going to act like praising the design of anything in that zone isn't like putting lipstick on a pig, although one defense I might offer is that you won't spend a quarter of your time actively waiting for the game to play itself at any point within.

In fact the only times I saw the runner stop in the Sonic 2 run were either when he was lining up to abuse a glitch, entering a spin dash, or for less than a second in Wing Fortress zone when he waited on his platform to move downward. Or when waiting for Robotnik to finish exploding at the end of a level, but that's a commonality in all classic Sonic games.

At a moderate level of skill you might find other sections in Sonic 2 where slowing or stopping momentum might occur - lowering barriers in Mystic Cave Zone, the "eruption" sections and springboards in Hill Top Zone, half the crap you'll run into in Casino Night Zone (similar to what you'd run into in Spring Yard Zone), and platforming segments in Wing Fortress Zone. Heck, Sky Chase Zone is basically autopilot, but at least you're actively doing things onscreen while it moves you forward - destroying enemies, collecting rings, dodging shots. If it was sped up (and I wish it was), it'd feel less like a break and more like a shmup.

You can add the shifting square platforms in Chemical Plant, the rising columns and many of the underwater sections in Aquatic Ruin, and the elevators and launching platforms in Oil Ocean to the list too if you'd like. Although the Chemical Plant squares were entirely skipped in the speedrun, and none of these sections keeps you longer than a second or two. The nut-and-bolt platforms in Metropolis Zone are an effective analogue in terms of boredom; I at least appreciate that my actions are having an effect, rather than making my presence irrelevant as in Marble Zone, but it also feels like a slog to get a bare minimum of momentum, and that may be even worse for some.

But outside of Sky Chase (which we can probably both lay into if desired) none of these sections will you get so immensely bored you resort to playing with the camera to pass the goddamn time. During a speedrun.

Your point is countered. Which zone would you like to dissect next?

You're hugely exaggerating the "mastery" required to skip past some of the the obstacles in Marble Zone. You can run and jump across the swinging platforms with little effort. And most of your examples of "agency being removed" (like the spikes in the lava chase) aren't even guaranteed to happen, they're actually examples of obstacles that punish you by slowing you down if you fail to avoid them...which literally EVERY main series Sonic game does. It's what sets Sonic level design apart from other games. Often times, messing up doesn't mean having to start again from a checkpoint, but it just results in a loss of speed. It's the game's way of slapping you on the wrist. Sonic 2 does it even more, especially with it's actually cheap level design where it's actually a problem.

Sonic 2 just has many more moments where the player is actually forced to wait for something, like elevators in Casino Night, the screws in Metropolis, the rising water in Chemical Plant, etc.

Personally, I don't see an inherent problem with the game stopping the player and "removing agency" every once in a while (it's standard practice in a platformer, as it gives the player time to think about what's coming next, which means it's really not removing agency at all, especially when they can literally still control the chaeacter), even in Sonic 2 - but it does definitely have more of that.

And I find myself playing with the camera way more often in Sonic 2. ESPECIALLY in Metropolis Zone since it's the only way of dealing with the cheap level design.

Ultimately, I don't even see why you're even using glitched speedruns as an example of your point. You complain about Sonic 1 "requiring" mastery to bypass some of the slower sections...then post an example of a player using glitches that obviously take a lot of practice and knowledge with the game to bypass them in Sonic 2.

Once again, it's starting to feel like you're just posting random numbers and statistics and trying to create a point based off them, rather than using them to back up an already solid point and not understanding the context of those numbers. You definitely have countered nothing here, and since these kinds of discussions with you tend to get plodding themselves, I'm gonna leave it at that. Once again, l will ask you to actually have played the game recently enough if you're gonna get into an in-depth discussion about level design. Because it seems like you're trying to be argumentative for the sake of it at this point, desperately trying to form points from stats and numbers and videos you don't understand the context of.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Go FCC yourself

You know, it's a real shame that even Net Neutrality is somehow a controversial topic. I've seen arguments claiming that Net Neutrality is horrible, and they weren't by people who had anything to gain from it being gone, just random blokes who don't understand various issues.

Some notes.

The page has since been made inaccessible, and it is presently impossible to send an individual comment. Using the link brings up a blank page. Searching for 17-108 simply resets the search field. No official word on why this might be, but it either rhymes with "brought down 4chan/Reddit's wrath" or "we really don't care what you think" which themselves are not mutually exclusive options.

It remains possible to send a bulk comment at the following link: https://www.fcc.gov/restoring-internet-freedom-comments-wc-docket-no-17-108

 

[MainJPW]

Spoiler

Idk how to feel here. Power scale wise Frieza makes total sense since he's equal or somewhat below SSJ Blue in power but he IS, like, Goku's archnemesis. It's pretty weird, even for him. But I guess it's a desperation move so it could be okay.

I also don't like how they screwed Buu over two tournaments in a row now. I mean I could think of a couple of dudes in the line up we could've done without *coughtienroshicough*

Spoiler

Y'know, now that Freeza's been confirmed there really is no reason we couldn't get Goten and Trunks over Roshi and Tenshinhan, given Gokus reasoning for excluding them in the first place I doubt the boys would be any harder to work with than the guy who murdered his best friend before his eyes and committed mass, planetary genocide.

The character interactions will definitely be interesting as Krillin and Piccolo sure as hell aren't gonna like this decision.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nepty, and zi guess she doesn't have art. lol

Zi? Zelse does have some(but he's not Water, he's Wind). Or did you mean "I" and typo'd?

It's not as easy getting pictures of every NPC, and before I'd do that, I need to prepare a much bigger SD Card. XD It'd take a very long time, but yeah.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You know what would really be cool? Making Pikkon a canon character. I mean, a guy who can keep up with SS2 Goku and still probably pushes himself is no slouch.

Though a bait and switch with Cell instead would be funny.

Ever since I started watching the series, Pikkon is the one character I've been hoping that is made canon during Super.

If he was, I wouldn't be surprised if he could keep up with SSG levels of power considering all the boosts some of the other characters have seem to have gotten.

 

[Robertman2]

Did you have fun with that "Knuckles" game? I don't think I've seen you talk about it.

Personally I think Chaotix would've been better off had it been designed like Sonic 3&K, it's probably the weirdest game in the franchise and takes some time to get used to. I do like the way it looks though, VERY dreamlike, it's like CD and Ristar mashed together.

I haven't played it in a few years thanks to the fact I don't have a TV with the right inputs. I've been trying to find a TV for it

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Anyone wants to add me to their list of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe competitors?

I'll give you my FC later, just reply with yours.

I may be ready to race later because this class is shorter than a mosquito's lifespan.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Anyone wants to add me to their list of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe competitors?

I'll give you my FC later, just reply with yours.

I may be ready to race later because this class is shorter than a mosquito's lifespan.

Sure thing.

SW-4098-7445-3995

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Sure thing.

SW-4098-7445-3995

Nice. Will definitely keep this in mind when I get back.

Carrying a Switch on trains like these are far too risky.

Any other takers?

 

[Deleted member]

I watched GotG yesterday. Both of them.
Holy ****, why didn't I watch the first one sooner? These were probably the best MCU movies.
Some of the jokes can be a bit weird and out of place but I feel it adds to its charm.
And I really like the entire main cast, they're all given enough screentime to develop. Groot is a pure cinnamon roll and must be protected.

Also, where are the other Infinity Stones in the other MCU movies? I'n terrible at following all this **** and I'm confused as hell

 

[Schnee117]

Anyone wants to add me to their list of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe competitors?

I'll give you my FC later, just reply with yours.

I may be ready to race later because this class is shorter than a mosquito's lifespan.

Eh sure.

6660-1506-8804

I watched GotG yesterday. Both of them.
Holy ****, why didn't I watch the first one sooner? These were probably the best MCU movies.
Some of the jokes can be a bit weird and out of place but I feel it adds to its charm.
And I really like the entire main cast, they're all given enough screentime to develop. Groot is a pure cinnamon roll and must be protected.

Also, where are the other Infinity Stones in the other MCU movies? I'n terrible at following all this **** and I'm confused as hell

Tesseract/Space - Asgard
Orb/Power - Xandar
Aether/Reality - Collector
Sceptre Gem/Mind - Vision's Head
Eye of Agamotto/Time - Kamar-Taj

We're just missing the Soul stone which is in either Thor Ragnarok or Black Panther.

Of course people are speculating that the Soul Stone is something beginning with H because it then makes up THANOS when put with the others (but you have to stretch because the Eye is called Necklace but everything else is exactly what it is)

 

[Deleted member]

Aether/Reality - Collector

Wait, the Collector from GotG? When was that thing showed and where exactly it is now?

 

[Wario Bros.]

On my talk of next week's Samurai Jack, I said the area Jack was in reminds me of Episode XLI: Robo-Samurai versus Mondo Bot. Now with more research, it actually looks more like EPISODE XXXII: Jack and the Traveling Creatures (hands down the most talked about episode for season 5).

That COULD mean we'll see the Guardian!

 

[Opossum]

Wait, the Collector from GotG? When was that thing showed and where exactly it is now?

End credit scene of Thor: The Dark World.

 

[Schnee117]

Wait, the Collector from GotG? When was that thing showed and where exactly it is now?

It was in Thor: The Dark World's first post credits scene where Sif and Volstagg give it to him.

It's not in Guardians.