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[N3ON]

I enjoyed the Sonic games more when I was younger. Now I find most of them... a little overly simplistic.

I enjoy Sonic, even the modern games that people tend to fault for existing. I certainly don't see any reason to change what it is, I just think that it needs to be handled with a little more care.

It's a cocky blue hedgehog with superpowers that saves the world from an egg obsessed mad scientist. It's not meant to be taken dead seriously, and it (usually) isn't. But just because something isn't meant to be taken dead seriously doesn't mean it can't have high stakes either. That's the beauty of it, it's a kind of jutaxposition not every game will touch. It's no fun to segregate certain tropes off, it's much more interesting to mix them together and see what happens.

It's fun to just play a game and have the wind in your face while fighting rather fast paced enemies as you come across them. Combine that with a setting that has the right balance of funny, cute, and awesome, and you've got my kind of game.

I don't know if the brunt of criticism towards Sonic games is centered around the sense of general realism...

Also isn't the whole superhero genre something that isn't meant to be taken dead seriously yet contains high stakes and revolves around those with superpowers saving the world from evil smarties? A lot of them are cocky too. Spiderman fighting the evil scientists, Deadpool fighting the evil scientists, Iron Man fighting the evil scientists... that other guy who runs really fast fighting the evil scientists. Most don't involve hedgehogs, but the archetypes aren't really breaking new ground.

I agree with that last paragraph though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I can go back to Mario games anytime

But I can't really go back to Sonic games.

I've always been more of a fan of Sonic as a character rather than a game

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, Sonic the Hedgehog has stuff like this that you can easily find ALL over the internet.

Spoiler

I don't think it'll ever stop being made fun, ever.

 

[Coricus]

I enjoyed the Sonic games more when I was younger. Now I find most of them... a little overly simplistic.


I don't know if the brunt of criticism towards Sonic games is centered around the sense of general realism...

Also isn't the whole superhero genre something that isn't meant to be taken dead seriously yet contains high stakes and revolves around those with superpowers saving the world from evil smarties? A lot of them are cocky too. Spiderman fighting the evil scientists, Deadpool fighting the evil scientists, Iron Man fighting the evil scientists... that other guy who runs really fast fighting the evil scientists. Most don't involve hedgehogs, but the archetypes aren't really breaking new ground.

I agree with that last paragraph though.

The brunt of the criticism isn't, but I've had this one guy who said they "couldn't take Sonic seriously" stuck in the back of my head a long time for some reason and felt like getting it out. It just seemed like such an odd complaint at the time even in a sea of complaints about Sonic that I don't usually agree with.

Yeah, Sonic's pretty much a superhero in all but name. There's probably some folks out there stiff enough to go "I can't take this seriously" to those, too, but there's a reason why that kind of stuff is fun.

 

[Kurri ★]

I mean, Sonic the Hedgehog has stuff like this that you can easily find ALL over the internet.

Spoiler

I don't think it'll ever stop being made fun, ever.

There's that stuff too. But in a way it's what makes the fanbase and franchise so endearing. There's a lot of corny, some outright bad stuff, but then there's a ton of great stuff out there.

Spoiler

And even when the things are bad, everyone just pokes fun at it and have a great time (after the rage wears off). You don't really see that with Mario and others. You say Sticker Star, and people foam at the mouth. You say Sonic Boom and there's memes.

 

[N3ON]

Like N30N said, I doubt Mania and Project 2017 would stop the meme. Regardless of how well they'll do, people will keep hopping back to Sonic 06 and try to make their "oh, so original joke" about it. Or make a 3 hour analysis about how bad Sonic 06 was and how Sonic needs to change without even taking into consideration that the later games minus Boom weren't complete garbage, some even the best platformers of their year.

Sonic 06 may stand out but it's not like it, and Boom, are the only bad Sonic games. Even after 06 the only ones I'd consider "good" were the aforementioned two. That one where he had a sword was pretty wack. And the RPG was not fun. Daytime Sonic in Unleashed was fine, but the werehog kinda sunk that game. I didn't play Lost World but I heard it was not unlike a poor man's SMG (but before y'all jump down my throat, I'm sure there were plenty of differences).

The brunt of the criticism isn't, but I've had this one guy who said they "couldn't take Sonic seriously" stuck in the back of my head a long time for some reason and felt like getting it out. It just seemed like such an odd complaint at the time even in a sea of complaints about Sonic that I don't usually agree with.

Yeah, Sonic's pretty much a superhero in all but name. There's probably some folks out there stiff enough to go "I can't take this seriously" to those, too, but there's a reason why that kind of stuff is fun.

Eh well to each their own. Some may not have an affinity for the cartoonish, but then there are those, such as myself, that lean towards the bright and colourful over the drab and dreary aesthetic so much of gaming has become nowadays. It's one of the reasons I like Nintendo, they don't much **** around with that kind of stuff.

There are also some people that don't take superheroes seriously. These are things you're not supposed to take seriously. Who cares.

 

[Champ Gold]

I enjoyed the Sonic games more when I was younger. Now I find most of them... a little overly simplistic.


I don't know if the brunt of criticism towards Sonic games is centered around the sense of general realism...

Also isn't the whole superhero genre something that isn't meant to be taken dead seriously yet contains high stakes and revolves around those with superpowers saving the world from evil smarties? A lot of them are cocky too. Spiderman fighting the evil scientists, Deadpool fighting the evil scientists, Iron Man fighting the evil scientists... that other guy who runs really fast fighting the evil scientists. Most don't involve hedgehogs, but the archetypes aren't really breaking new ground.

I agree with that last paragraph though.

I don't it being simplistic is bad though. Megaman is just as simplistic with the jump and shoot formula.

Same with even Crash. The issue is making it fun and replayable.

Like N30N said, I doubt Mania and Project 2017 would stop the meme. Regardless of how well they'll do, people will keep hopping back to Sonic 06 and try to make their "oh, so original joke" about it. Or make a 3 hour analysis about how bad Sonic 06 was and how Sonic needs to change without even taking into consideration that the later games minus Boom weren't complete garbage, some even the best platformers of their year.

It can stop the issue is that Sonic is in a era of grown up Nintendo fans who only played the first game for like 45 minutes and judge the series in that regard.

I know it seems mean for me to say that but every time I hear a complaint about Sonic, they always bring up Mario, DK or any Nintendo platformer as a comparison.

Then there's also e-celebs stupidity over the series

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Sonic still has quite a ways to go in order to gain respect for a lot of people.

Colors and Generations certainly quieted the "lol sonic sux" thing. But as soon as Lost Word got mixed reviews and Rise of Lyric became one of the worst rated games in the series, people were quick to hate the series again.

I have high hopes for Sonic Mania and Project 2017, but they won't be enough to completely restore Sonic's reputation. At the most we'll probably be back where we were after Colors and Generations.

 

[Mythra]

Heads up to everyone in here. Start changing those passwords.

aayyyy Cloudbleed
After reading the list of affected sites I realized this site isn't top 10,000.

lul, what happened in August-September?

 

[N3ON]

I don't it being simplistic is bad though. Megaman is just as simplistic with the jump and shoot formula.

Same with even Crash. The issue is making it fun and replayable.

Perhaps I should say I don't find a great deal of nuance or depth. The boss fights, the method of progression, the health system. I won't say the games don't provide fun, they just seem shallow to me. More Sonic games than not that I've played you hold down a directional button for a while, occasionally tap another and wow you've made it to the end of the level. It just seems mindless. Not all the time, but regularly. Mega Man, Mario, DKC, and lots of 2d platformers are simplistic in concept but provide a level of depth I never found with Sonic. Which is why the series just doesn't bring me back. Simplistic is fine, but overly simplistic is dull. But hey, ymmv.

I have similar grievances with the Kirby series nowadays. Though not to the same extent. And I understand that series is designed to be deliberately simple and easy. But I still enjoyed those more when I was younger as well. Though to be fair, Sakurai kept the series evolving a lot more when he was still helming it. Barring Epic Yarn I suppose.

 

[MF Viewtiful]

Even discounting Boom and 2006, Sonic's track record in the modern age has been shaky. The Wii games are not particularly well regarded. Half of Unleashed is pretty well mocked too. Lost World has received a mediocre reception too. Time's been cruel to those first two Adventure games, as one can argue that they have not aged super gracefully. People much rather forget that RPG as well. But there has been bright spots with Colors, Generations, and the Rush games.

The best thing that has happened to our blue critter is definitely the new self-awareness angle taken in by Sega's social media. Their efforts have given a new identity to Sonic, which was desperately needed post Sega's exit from the console market. With Mania and 2017, things have been looking a little brighter for our rodent friend. Here's to that little blue hedgehog.

 

[Kurri ★]

Sonic 06 may stand out but it's not like it, and Boom, are the only bad Sonic games. Even after 06 the only ones I'd consider "good" were the aforementioned two. That one where he had a sword was pretty wack. And the RPG was not fun. Daytime Sonic in Unleashed was fine, but the werehog kinda sunk that game. I didn't play Lost World but I heard it was not unlike a poor man's SMG (but before y'all jump down my throat, I'm sure there were plenty of differences).

Sonic Rush Adventure is definitely another one (even if the boat segments were tedious). And Colors DS is similar only in story and even that it deviates a lot. And if we're going to include the RPG, I'd argue it'd be fair to include All Stars Racing and All Stars Racing Transformed. That said, I did actually forget about Black Knight, and Sonic 4, and the RPG. I think Lost World was one of the games people would say was alright, not complete garbage. There are a ton of misses, but I don't think it's fair to make it out to be an overwhelming majority.

It can stop the issue is that Sonic is in a era of grown up Nintendo fans who only played the first game for like 45 minutes and judge the series in that regard.

I know it seems mean for me to say that but every time I hear a complaint about Sonic, they always bring up Mario, DK or any Nintendo platformer as a comparison.

Then there's also e-celebs stupidity over the series

Video game e-celebs definitely make it hard to have any real discussion with things. Most of them are just the average "gamer" but with a camera.

I was talking about it with people the other day, and I think what we really need are people who actually analyze/review games and produce discussion about them. And no, people like JonTron, PeanutButterGamer, Dunkey, etc aren't them. I'm talking more like SuperBunnyHop, Joseph Anderson, their videos aren't as easily digestible because they're not played for laughs. There may be funny moments, but their videos delve into why a game made them feel a certain way. It's easy to get on camera, talk about how a game controls, and how the graphics looked, and give it a score at the end, it's another to go into detail and discuss what made such a game so enjoyable or terrible for you.

We're beginning to see that more with movie critic like Movies with Mikey, Nerdwriter, and such, we just need it more with games now.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Yellowlord]

If anything, Sonic getting into Smash back then and staying in the next game earned him more respect and helped lead the way for other third party characters. Sure, he's gone back to being "that one blue hedgehog you're supposed to make fun of because of how his games have been recently" for a while, but at least he's not at the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Deleted member]

I think part of the reason Sonic doesn't interest me much is because most of the time the setting and situation doesn't have much rhyme or reason for the most part. With certain exceptions of course.

But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. I mean, in Crash 3 for instance obviously there's a ton of different settings, but there's a reason why Crash goes through all of them with the time machine alone.

But just to put it simply, it never feels like there's an established and consistent world in Sonic, it tends to go all over the place and that's something that bugs me about the series. Both in terms of when it comes to most sonic games and their level settings and the franchise as a whole.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

LOL, is this too much detail?

I think I went overboard compared to the other models

 

[N3ON]

Sonic Rush Adventure is definitely another one (even if the boat segments were tedious). And Colors DS is similar only in story and even that it deviates a lot. And if we're going to include the RPG, I'd argue it'd be fair to include All Stars Racing and All Stars Racing Transformed. That said, I did actually forget about Black Knight, and Sonic 4, and the RPG. I think Lost World was one of the games people would say was alright, not complete garbage. There are a ton of misses, but I don't think it's fair to make it out to be an overwhelming majority.

I didn't play Sonic Rush Adventure, but I did play Sonic Rush, and if it's like that game then I'm sure it was fun but not really anything to write home about...

I also wouldn't include the Sonic racing games, because those are Sega racing games with Sonic plastered front and center so the damn thing sells. But I do enjoy those games and think they're good fun and well made. However if anything they're a continuation of the Sega Superstars series.

And I don't know... I think the overwhelming majority, if not misses, were very mediocre. Meh to bad imo. Tbh I think the review scores are fairly accurate in most cases.

If anything, Sonic getting into Smash back then and staying in the next game earned him more respect and helped lead the way for other third party characters. Sure, he's gone back to being "that one blue hedgehog you're supposed to make fun of because of how his games have been recently" for a while, but at least he's not at the bottom of the barrel.

I guess. No one has ever questioned Sonic being a gaming icon and Mario's rival. Or a popular character. Few would question his place in Smash, even as a third-party. He will remain the most requested character in Smash history, and there's a reason for that. But his reputation was blemished before Brawl, and it will likely remain blemished going forward. That clearly doesn't mean he is without a fanbase, or those who would vehemently defend his place in Smash even if they didn't care for what's become of his series.

To put it into perspective, the Sonic series really only existed as something infallible and commanding for like half a decade. Less. Like twenty five years ago. Then the blue blur began tripping over his own ever-lengthening legs. :/

 

[Coricus]

I think Sonic has it's complexity more in that it has an element of speedrunning built into it should one wish to pursue it. It's why faster completion times contributed to your score in the classic games and the modern games have a Rank system that's heavily reliant on it.

If you just walk through a level, it's simple enough. But if you're trying to get the maximum Rank available, you have to RUN, and at that point obstacles that wouldn't normally be an issue suddenly have to be thought around. The game rewards you for playing like you're Sonic, but not without challenge.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally I love the blue Hedgehog to death.

I've only played a handful of his games I didn't end up enjoying in some way.

The Genesis Games
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Colors
Sonic Generations
The Sonic Riders Series
The Sonic Advance Trilogy
Even Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games

I've had a lot of years of fun with the Hedgehog.

 

[Champ Gold]

I do agree that time hasn't been kind to the blue blur.


He seems like a relic of a bygone age but what has that everlasting appeal that not only he was first to do it but mocked those 90s platformers.

Think of it like this: look at the PlayStation platformer mascot they have had over the years, atleast a few of them were of them were influenced by this guy . And others as well.


Considering Mario, Zelda and other franchises like those represent the 80s era of gaming, Sonic represents the 90s over the top, in your face style games his brought and some weren't even platformers. The one thing that hurt him was that he never got the game equivalent of Super Mario 64 or that he didn't stray from 2D like others and stuck to what made him great.

Sonic Adventure was close but man it didn't last for long and has looked like the worst thing in the world.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I got into Sonic through the TV Series, SatAM and the comic series.

I never had a Genesis when I was a kid and I only got to play one a couple times.

My first real experience with Sonic was Sonic's Adventure and I absolutely loved that game

But I didn't get another Sonic game after that for a LONG time

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The Switch just got some VC games confirmed for March.

King of Fighters '98
Waku Waku 7
Shock Troopers
World Heroes Perfect
Metal Slug 3


These are all Neo Geo games.

This is pretty huge.

 

[Deleted member]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The Switch just got some VC games confirmed for March.

King of Fighters '98
Waku Waku 7
Shock Troopers
World Heroes Perfect
Metal Slug 3


These are all Neo Geo games.

This is pretty huge.

I hope that KoF 98 is the UM version, it's hard for me to go back to the original because it feels incomplete in comparison.(Especially because the boss team is missing.)

 

[Champ Gold]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The Switch just got some VC games confirmed for March.

King of Fighters '98
Waku Waku 7
Shock Troopers
World Heroes Perfect
Metal Slug 3


These are all Neo Geo games.

This is pretty huge.

So a bunch of incredible fighting games and the best Metal Slug game in the series.

Well Damn hopefully the west gets these

 

[N3ON]

I have nothing negative to say about Sonic as a character. Great design, the right attitude for striking a chord in the 90s... uh... I guess that's it. Chilli dogs.

I love the music from the Sonic series. I like it more than the Mario music. At least 2d Sonic compared to 2d Mario. Though His World was a great track. I also love Hyper Potions so I'm looking forward to the Sonic Mania soundtrack.

The Genesis Sonic games were prettier than SMW too.

And, uh... I love the Sega startup chanty thing, lol.

Oh, I also was very excited when Sonic was confirmed for Smash and I remember literally jumping from my chair and proceeding to watch the now-very dated looking trailer like ten times. It felt so surreal seeing Sonic on the DOJO. Like thinking something is fake when you know it's not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://www.grabitmagazine.com/blog/post/mass-effect-andromeda-nintendo-switch/

Well holy ****.

Mass Effect Andromeda on Switch is a possibility?

 

[Coricus]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The Switch just got some VC games confirmed for March.

King of Fighters '98
Waku Waku 7
Shock Troopers
World Heroes Perfect
Metal Slug 3


These are all Neo Geo games.

This is pretty huge.

I don't think it's VC, I just think they're being ported over.

That said, nothing stopping anyone else from porting over games if they waaaant toooo. ~

I think VC will be up soon enough anyway. If it isn't up by E3, I think there's a very good chance we'll at least hear about it then. And E3 is only three months after launch.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

http://www.grabitmagazine.com/blog/post/mass-effect-andromeda-nintendo-switch/

Well holy ****.

Mass Effect Andromeda on Switch is a possibility?

More like Mass Erect

 

[N3ON]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The Switch just got some VC games confirmed for March.

King of Fighters '98
Waku Waku 7
Shock Troopers
World Heroes Perfect
Metal Slug 3


These are all Neo Geo games.

This is pretty huge.

This isn't new news, and these are eShop titles, not set to be released through the VC.

Nice to see nonetheless though! I might download Metal Slug 3. The sprite work in that series is second to none.

http://www.grabitmagazine.com/blog/post/mass-effect-andromeda-nintendo-switch/

Well holy ****.

Mass Effect Andromeda on Switch is a possibility?

I believe it's possible. However I think if it were to happen it would be contingent on performance of FIFA and wouldn't release until ME:A had already been out elsewhere for a while, which is certainly not ideal... but I guess it better than nothing?

Though I do think at E3 we will see some unexpected western third-party support. But truthfully probably not much.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think it's VC, I just think they're being ported over.

That said, nothing stopping anyone else from porting over games if they waaaant toooo. ~

I think VC will be up soon enough anyway. If it isn't up by E3, I think there's a very good chance we'll at least hear about it then. And E3 is only three months after launch.

This isn't new news, and these are eShop titles, not set to be released through the VC.

Nice to see nonetheless though! I might download Metal Slug 3. The sprite work in that series is second to none.


I believe it's possible. However I think if it were to happen it would be contingent on performance of FIFA and wouldn't release until ME:A had already been out elsewhere for a while, which is certainly not ideal... but I guess it better than nothing?

Though I do think at E3 we will see some unexpected western third-party support. But truthfully probably not much.

I'm getting reports its VC. The text even says Virtual Console in Japanese.

Where did you hear it's just Eshop?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I actually love the Metal Slug series but I've only played it in arcades.

 

[N3ON]

I'm getting reports its VC. The text even says Virtual Console in Japanese.

Where did you here it's just Eshop?

The fact that they're launch titles yet Nintendo confirmed there's no VC at launch is fairly damning evidence. Also the fact that they're not being reported on as Virtual Console titles anywhere else. Also the fact that it doesn't say Virtual Console in the picture, just in his description.

 

[Deleted member]

If they're not VC then hopefully that means that KoF 98 is the UM version, though probably not, which is a shame. Because if it were to be then that means that there'd potentially be 2002 UM too which was MUCH better than the original.

 

[Mythra]

Metal Slug is the ****; I remember visiting a taco restaurant often just to play it on their arcades when I was younger.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The fact that they're launch titles yet Nintendo confirmed there's no VC at launch is fairly damning evidence. Also the fact that they're not being reported on as Virtual Console titles anywhere else. Also the fact that it doesn't say Virtual Console in the picture, just in his description.

I am not reading or hearing anything about them being launch titles.

That said, it seems you're right.

Some Japanese gamers seem to assume its just VC.

 

[N3ON]

I am not reading or hearing anything about them being launch titles.

That said, it seems you're right.

Some Japanese gamers seem to assume its just VC.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1347115



Oh and btw the description is the guy lamenting the lack of VC, that's why it's mentioned.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1347115



Oh and btw the description is the guy lamenting the lack of VC, that's why it's mentioned.

Last time I use that guy as a translator.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Um, what it says is ACTUALLY

"Switch the virtual console was disappointed to hear that none Release Date implementation, yan come Neo Geo!"

 

[Delzethin]

It seems like I'm on the back end of this stomach virus now. All that's really hanging around are a light fever and body aches.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to wonder if the latter hasn't led to a pinched nerve...

 

[Spurdo]

Sonic honestly dropped dead at Sonic Adventure. Sonic Adventure isn't a bad game but it set a bad precedent for nearly every Sonic game to come after it, it was overly ambitious and it ended up having terrible consequences on the franchise. Every Sonic game post Sonic 3 really only feel like it can be played once. When Sonic was announced for Brawl I was very disappointed they weren't using his classic design, not only is it flat out better but it's symbolic of better times. when Sonic Mania comes out we can just forget the past 22 years ever happened

 

[Coricus]

Every time someone praises the classic games at this point, I think I die a little inside because it apparently can't come without throwing shade at the modern games.

I'm just. . .tired of constantly listening to how terrible things I enjoyed are. Like my feelings somehow aren't legitimate. And of course, I go to look for other things to enjoy then by watching what other people enjoy, and what happens? Oh, they're all terrible too. All of them.

Ever-y. Single. One. Of. Them.

*sigh* It's just. . .I know I should be my own person, but it's tiring, OK? To have every single thing you like get insulted constantly. It's tiring.