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Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

When, if ever, do you plan on buying the Switch?

  • At launch

    Votes: 40 36.0%
  • Late spring/summer

    Votes: 25 22.5%
  • During the fall/holidays

    Votes: 17 15.3%
  • Sometime after 2017

    Votes: 7 6.3%
  • Not until [insert game here] is released

    Votes: 20 18.0%
  • I'm not getting that bucket of turds!!

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • Total voters
    111
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I love how Genwunners say that new Pokemon are "uncreative"

There were more "uncreative" Gen 1 Pokemon then I can count
 
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Ura

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No, they are running out of ideas.

With Gen 1, Pokémon was a humble project, an earnest attempt from a young game designer to make a game he always dreamed of, with a new gameplay concept that he hoped would encourage social interaction (capturing, trading, and battling creatures across two versions of the same game).

Gen 2 was him trying to prove this is something that could stick around, by doing the same thing again, but bigger and better. Trying to live up to the lofty expectations set by the massive success of the first game.

After that, Pokémon became increasingly about the merchandising because of it's guaranteed pedigree. The games exist to sell toys and trinkets nowadays, and not much else.

When they make a Pokémon nowadays, it isn't usually because they want to do something creative with it. It's because they want to make something they can make an easy piece of merchandise out of.

Keychains, Teddy Bears, Sandcastles, etc. These are all things that are no brainers for some kind of merchandising.

Someone is going to try and argue with me about how Pokémon is pure and everything it does is done with the utmost creative integrity and thought.

But let me remind you that the new Pokémon game is being released with this.

That's true though they at least try to put the effort in to making these games evident by the fact that they're always well-received by fans.

Usually the spin-off games are the ones with more though put in to them. The Stadium games for encouraging players to effectively breed Pokemon for the Stadium and Gym Leader Castle, Coliseum/ GoD for bringing an overworld adventure and significantly different plotline, and other Pokemon games like Pokemon Conquest and Pokken that go beyond the Pokmeon formula.
 
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Chrono.

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That's true though they at least try to put the effort in to making these games evident by the fact that they're always well-received by fans.

Usually the spin-off games are the ones with more though put in to them. The Stadium games for encouraging players to effectively breed Pokemon for the Stadium and Gym Leader Castle, Coliseum/ GoD for bringing an overworld adventure and significantly different plotline, and other Pokemon games like Pokemon Conquest and Pokken that go beyond the Pokmeon formula.
Pokemon Conquest should really get a sequel.
 

Substitution

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Oh... Oh dear...

Are we going to "genwunners" now? I swear to God if anyone resorts to using "haters" in a sentence I'm going to scream.
 

AwesomeAussie27

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Im sorry that haappend to you
Eh, he'll get over it. There's much worse out there in the deep dark web and yaoi barely scratches the surface.

At least it wasn't something worse like clopper art (which even the sanest pony fans hate).
 

Ura

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Oh... Oh dear...

Are we going to "genwunners" now? I swear to God if anyone resorts to using "haters" in a sentence I'm going to scream.
Ditto.

Really frigging hate it when people keep bringing this stupid buzzword up. Even as someone who agrees that the gameplay of Pokemon got better through the gens it bothers me because I can still go back and enjoy the Gen 1 games of Pokemon.
 

Guybrush20X6

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So next Pokemon will be a mischief maker that does mean stuff to people in the open and is also rumored to be the spirit of a video game player?
Or a haunted music box


 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Ladies and gentleman, I present you the Pokemon fandom in a nutshell.

Eh, he'll get over it. There's much worse out there in the deep dark web and yaoi barely scratches the surface.

At least it wasn't something worse like clopper art (which even the sanest pony fans hate).


You wouldn't dare think about doing that next time.
 

AwesomeAussie27

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You wouldn't dare think about doing that next time.
Relax love, I already said I have little intention of doing that.

And besides, aren't you already bubbled due to FTD (Fusion Transmitted Disease) corruption?
 

Coricus

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So how about them No Man;s Sky reviews.
TIL Kid Icarus: Uprising's multiplayer was copied directly off of Dark Souls. :troll:

I dunno, I just can't call it creative when they're a making a "Teddy Bear Pokémon" in a series where pretty much all of the bear Pokémon look like Teddy Bears already, a Pokémon intentionally made to look like the main mascot (keep in mind Yokai-Watch gets **** for this all of the time from Pokémon fans so it's only fair we criticise Pokémon when it does it), and most of the new reveals just being new forms of old Pokémon.

I thought things started off fine this Gen, but then again, I was never expecting much to begin with, because it's Pokémon and I know what to expect from Pokémon.



I didn't say they don't have any original ideas left, I said they are running out of original ideas.

Managing to squeeze out a couple of legitimately cool and creative Pokémon among the slew of clear merchandise bait and re-hashes they have each Gen is indicative of that statement, not a counter point to the statement.
They're not even running out. It's partially that a huge proportion of the good ideas left are Water, Bug, and Flying type or Fossils.

It's just that they get horribly yelled at for the first two and the last one is running on a quota. There's a reason why we're getting things like Malamar and Lurantis, they have the ideas but they can't afford to get shouted at for the types.

Even so they could still gather up quite a few mythological hybrids before they truly have a problem, but for some reason they shy away from that.

And again, they managed to scrape up a wharf roach so clearly they're better at research than I am. They probably have plenty of things not from those four categories available to them. Again, the fairy armadillo is right there.

Even if they end up having a deficit in terms of one type or another, the "running out of ideas" isn't universal.

And yet in the same instance we have the whole "regional butterfly" problem that went on for a while, so clearly there was still either complacency or a quota going on despite that.

Honestly they could use nearly anything other than, say, Pikaclones if they wanted to. But that kind of thing reeks more of mandated quotas than the designers simply sitting down cluelessly with a blank expression before going "Oh I'll just copy Pikachu again!"
 

Swamp Sensei

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I just don't get the argument that someone is running out of ideas...

If they're still making tons of new things...

They clearly have a lot of new ideas.
 

ChikoLad

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I love how Genwunners say that new Pokemon are "uncreative"

:006: Yeah because that's ****ing creative
When it comes to Pokémon with an evolution line, I look at the recurring concept across them, and not the individual design. Because for all intents and purposes, Charmeleon is a teenage Charmander, and Charizard is an adult one.

And from that perspective, they are creative. The signature trait of their design is the flame on their tail, and the context behind it, being that it will die when it the flame dies. That is a creative idea and is a perfect way to form a poignant connection between trainer and pet-mon.

And while Charizard may not be the most creative design in the world, at least he is not plain merchandise bait. He's a character.

Also, I'm not a Genwunner. I haven't played it in years. I love Gen 2 too (as a game, I love Gen 2 more than Gen 1, but I thought Gen 1 had the best world and context). And I gave other Pokémon games a fair and honest try. Played Gen 3 but it didn't interest me much. Played Gen 4 up until the 6th or 7th gym but I got bored of it by that point, though I did like it (the Underground tunnels are so underrated).

I'm not saying the current state of Pokémon is a bad thing. I'm just stating the facts. You absolutely cannot deny that the franchise has become focused on merchandise first, compelling games second. You absolutely cannot deny that people will eat Pokémon games up regardless. One of the most commercially successful products in the franchise's history is a game that is terrible from an objective standpoint, and yet everyone still got it, spent money on it's microtransactions, and hailed it as an amazing thing. They only did that because it was Pokémon. If Yokai-Watch or Digimon or nearly any other IP released a game like Pokémon GO, people would have tore them apart like a pack of wolves.

That's true though they at least try to put the effort in to making these games evident by the fact that they're always well-received by fans.

Usually the spin-off games are the ones with more though put in to them. The Stadium games for encouraging players to effectively breed Pokemon for the Stadium and Gym Leader Castle, Coliseum/ GoD for bringing an overworld adventure and significantly different plotline, and other Pokemon games like Pokemon Conquest and Pokken that go beyond the Pokmeon formula.
I'm not saying Pokémon games are bad games. They are technically fine, I just don't see them as particularly compelling and don't think the developers care about that or are capable of that.

But yeah, the spin-offs tend to be where the creative potential of the franchise shines.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Anytime anyone mentions No Man's Sky I just kinda zone it out. I dunno why I just couldn't care less about the game. Sure, it looks cool but it doesn't look particularly fun. Am I the only one?
 

Swamp Sensei

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You absolutely cannot deny that the franchise has become focused on merchandise first,
It was like that from Day 1.

Heck, its gotten less about the merchandise now.

I don't see Pokemon stuff all that much anymore.
 

Chrono.

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Anytime anyone mentions No Man's Sky I just kinda zone it out. I dunno why I just couldn't care less about the game. Sure, it looks cool but it doesn't look particularly fun. Am I the only one?
No because a bunch of reviewers are saying the same thing.

It seems like everyone playing is looking for a reason to have fun but it's not clicking.
 

Substitution

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Anytime anyone mentions No Man's Sky I just kinda zone it out. I dunno why I just couldn't care less about the game. Sure, it looks cool but it doesn't look particularly fun. Am I the only one?
For me, I think a lot of it had to do with the uproar that happened a while back. Which by the way was absolute bullcrap.

But yeah it's mostly there for me. I hope it does well because it's a great concept and I love what they've shown, but I don't have any plans on getting it anytime soon.
 

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I really like the Sandcastle : it's an interesting concept that fits well with the Alola region. And giving it a Ghost typing just make it more likeable in my eyes.

The fish thing is also a really cool concept that I can't wait to hear more about how it'll work.

Dark type :052: looks pretty relax. I wonder how Alolan :053: will look.

Ghost/Fire :105: is nice too. More ghost types, which is a plus for me, along with a additional fire typing to add an hawaiian fire performer theme to it.

The evil team looks like Pirate punks, which could be interesting.

And the Pokédex leak is dead.
 

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TIL that if most of the new Pokémon don't appeal to you specifically then they are lazy and uncreative.
 

Chrono.

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So there's this #7FaveGames hashtag going on Twitter right now so I thought I'd share mine:
  • Sonic Adventure
  • Kid Icarus Uprising
  • Megaman Star Force 3
  • LoZ Majora's Mask
  • F-Zero GX
  • Super Mario Galaxy
  • Pokemon Gold/Silver
 

AreJay25

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Anytime anyone mentions No Man's Sky I just kinda zone it out. I dunno why I just couldn't care less about the game. Sure, it looks cool but it doesn't look particularly fun. Am I the only one?
Kinda feel the same way, yeah.

The game clearly had a lot of heart put into it, and I can respect that. But it's not really something I've been dying to play.

Maybe I'll try it at some point down the line.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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It was like that from Day 1.

Heck, its gotten less about the merchandise now.

I don't see Pokemon stuff all that much anymore.
Just to add my two sense (cents?) to the discussion: if you're making a game it needs to marketable through merchandise. Zelda, Sonic, Mario, Pokémon and plenty others are guilty of building for merchandise. If a characters series sells them so probably will it's merchandise. It's just how it is.

If you want a game that's solely based off selling other merchandise, however, look no further than Skylanders and Disney Infinity.
 

ChikoLad

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It was like that from Day 1.

Heck, its gotten less about the merchandise now.

I don't see Pokemon stuff all that much anymore.
No it wasn't. The first game was not a proven concept, so it was primarily the vision of one man just trying to make his dream game. The merchandise came after the explosion of popularity, and then with sequels, they discovered it was a winning formula, and decided to put the marketing potential of the games to sell toys, over the creative potential they had.

And your anecdotes mean nothing, I was literally in my local GameStop today and I saw Pokémon stuff everywhere. And I live in Ireland, of all places. I also saw quite a bit of Pokémon while exploring London.

What can't be argued, is the amount of Pokémon merch that's actually made.

TIL that if most of the new Pokémon don't appeal to you specifically then they are lazy and uncreative.
I challenge you to quote where I said this.
 
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Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Kinda feel the same way, yeah.

The game clearly had a lot of heart put into it, and I can respect that. But it's not really something I've been dying to play.

Maybe I'll try it at some point down the line.
Same. My PS4 backlog is big enough on its own (and that's not getting into the Wii U games).

I might try it one day when I have the time.
 

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The "running out of ideas" bit will always be a load of crap, at least as far as the actual Pokémon are concerned, and using the object Pokemon I feel has always been a poor example.

No matter how you feel about it, Pokémon being based on objects has a home in Japanese mythology through the Tsukumogami, so it has a basis for its existence. Even ignoring that, monsters being based on objects that come to life has long since been present in many media, including other monster franchises like Digimon or Shin Megami Tensei, so Pokémon is not special in that regard and it's silly to criticize it for doing it when it's a trait many other franchises share with it. Additionally, many of the object Pokémon tend to fit the world that they're introduced in and also usually have very creative designs. There's a reason why Pokémon like Chandelure and Aegislash are popular despite being objects, it's because they have loveable designs and concepts, and being an object doesn't take away from that.

Finally, Pokémon are Pocket Monsters, not animals, that means they can reach into many different inspirations. Pokémon actually going out and touching on other inspirations should actually be seen as more creative, not less, because while animals give many different ideas to use, so do objects and other things. As long as the Pokémon brought forth from the concepts are great Pokémon in their own right, then there isn't an issue with using those inspirations.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...igimon-adventure-tri-film-english-dub/.105186

I'd guess some people would be interested in this, but holy crap they were able to get Joshua Seth to come out of retirement. 10/16 returning VAs ain't bad. It will be interesting to see who they can get for the Adventure 02 cast for the remaining parts of the movie series.
Nice to hear that they managed to get back most of their original cast. I'm a bit disappointed in some of the missing cast members, but it's still great to see most of the gang back together.
 
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ChikoLad

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As long as the Pokémon brought forth from the concepts are great Pokémon in their own right, then there isn't an issue with using those inspirations.
That's my point though. There-in lies the problem.

They aren't compelling at all. Just merchandise bait, most of the time, and nothing else.

Even ignoring that, monsters being based on objects that come to life has long since been present in many media
I literally said exactly this myself. The problem isn't basing them off inanimate objects, the problem is the lack of purpose to them other than being "a mon to be caught in the game and bought in the toy shop".
 
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Swamp Sensei

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What can't be argued, is the amount of Pokémon merch that's actually made.
.
Yeah.

So where's your proof that there's more?

That's my point though. There-in lies the problem.

They aren't compelling at all. Just merchandise bait, most of the time, and nothing else.
I challenge you to quote where I said this.
You did it for me.

Not compelling to you.

But what about everyone else?
 
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Coricus

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I love how Genwunners say that new Pokemon are "uncreative"

There were more "uncreative" Gen 1 Pokemon then I can count
Yeah I actually don't have a very high headcount of Pokemon I like in any generation, and considering how much praise it gets it's especially noticeable with Gen 1.

If anything while many folks complain about the bad getting worse I feel like the best Pokemon have gotten better.

My three favorite Pokemon are a Gen 4, a Gen 4 Eeveelution, and a Gen 6.

So there's this #7FaveGames hashtag going on Twitter right now so I thought I'd share mine:
  • Sonic Adventure
  • Kid Icarus Uprising
  • Megaman Star Force 3
  • LoZ Majora's Mask
  • F-Zero GX
  • Super Mario Galaxy
  • Pokemon Gold/Silver
>The first two

:3

Yeah, I don't know what my exact list would be since I forget the exact quality of some games over time but those two are pretty good choices.

It's worth noting I haven't played any of the others unless SoulSilver counts.
 

Z25

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I've got to go with FalKoopa FalKoopa

The designs are more creative then usual and based and weirder ideas, which is why I love them and why Sun and Moon has been getting really hyped by fans. The ideas are fresh and different which attracts people, they top it with good looking visuals, a completely new story experience, and by giving love to gen 1 and appealing to the competitive scene.

These all work together to make the game very different and innovative which will probably lead to it being highly regarded in the series and becoming one of the biggest entries to date.
 

ChikoLad

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Yeah.

So where's your proof that there's more?




You did it for me.
Pokémon literally did not have the amount big name brands (Good Smile, TOMY, Figurarts, and many, many more) making toys for it in the 90's as it does now (let alone parterships to make products to release with the game on release), like not even close. The game also wasn't packaged or sold with toys. There also wasn't such a thing as Pokémon planes or Pokémon specific shops.

Like you have to be a try hard apologist to pursue this argument, it's dead on arrival. Just look up "Pokémon toys" on Google and look at the range of stuff you can get, and where you can get them. I don't know what you thought you were trying to pull here.

And no, I did nothing for you. Calling a Pokémon merchandise bait isn't me saying I dislike it (and I won't dislike something for being merchandise bait - I love Yoshi's Woolly World, after all ;)). It just means I'm recognising the intended purpose of it's design. A floating keychain is actually pretty funny and novel to me personally, but I am hard pressed to believe that it was created for anything other than at attempt at making something merchandisable (especially since none of it's creative potential is realised).
 
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