Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Personally, I haven't had pop up ads

they started doing stupid popup ads recently. Enough for everyone to use popup blocker on them when it started

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not even arguing that SAO is particularly good or anything like that.

But the game mechanics are so insignificant to the overall picture, and it's overall not it's main flaw.

Sorry Chiko, but SAO grabbed people by saying 'peeps are stuck in MMO'. If they don't have talk about the design/enjoyability of the MMO, then the story should have been a fantasy world setting. See No Game No Life. The summary is 'siblings are sent to fantasy land where everything is run by games' THAT'S what captures the interest of potential viewers, not talking about that is just false advertising

Personally, I haven't had pop up ads, though I always click 'play on device's player'

Except the marketing for the show barely emphasised the video game aspect of SAO. Even the tie-in video games you can get don't do so.

If you don't otherwise know about the video game aspect of SAO, the posters and advertisements don't do much of anything to emphasise it being set in a video game world, let alone emphasising the mechanics. It just looks like a show set in some kind of fantasy world...which isn't a lie, because that's actually true.

And here's an example of a video commercial:

While you see a shot of Kirito plugging in a headset to go to the video game world, everything else is inside the fantasy world, and the only two tag lines you see are "KIRITO IS BACK" and "SAVE THE WORLD". Again, the video game mechanics aren't touched on here, meaning nobody has any reason to assume the show would go in depth to flesh them out.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

With video game anime, even though SAO has positives.

It's the fan service, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member]

You're right that the story is about needing to survive, that's exactly what I said (at least it's part of the what Aincrad arc is, anyway). But you're not right about it being about a video game.

But that's the whole ****ing premise of the show
Just because you could change to another setting and still have the same basic plot structure doesn't make it any less of it

Also, I wasn't saying that Kirito's training was a compelling plot point or anything. My point is that while the show calls it "EXP grinding" because the characters happen to be inside a game world, it's still just this show's version of "shonen anime protagonist training time skip", which is a common trope, and hence, just further demonstrates how the show REALLY isn't about video games. Kirito's EXP grinding that the show skips over is no different to how the Naruto series glossed over Naruto's three years of training between the original series and Shippuden (and he's suddenly way stronger after the time skip). It's no different to how Goku and Gohan spend years in the high gravity chamber (from their perspective), but we barely see any of this, and then suddenly, Gohan's an experienced Super Saiyan at the end of it. Nobody complains about it in those shows and accepts that it's par for the course in shonen anime, so why is it an issue here?

Comparing SAO to Shonen like Naruto is just offensive
The difference between time skips in, say, Naruto and SAO is that Naruto does it once and we know he's off to training.
SAO just throws timeskips every 3 episodes as an excuse to overpower Kirito even more and the fact he was "training" is not even known until it becomes relevant.

If SAO was a show ABOUT video game mechanics, it would have went into excruciating detail on how the different stats in the game worked, how you level them up and make the best use of them, etc. But since it's just your run of the mill shonen anime, everything is just used as an excuse to make powerful characters who get into flashy fights. Kirito's high EXP level and special dual wielding skill are literally just this show's version of Naruto having Kurama's Chakra inside him as well as his own, and his signature Rasengan technique that he can do as a result even at a young age.

That's the thing, the show doesn't go in depth because Reki doesn't even know about what he's writing.
Impossible level grinding is not compared to a physical god given a background in-universe.
A skill he himself doesn't even know how he got it and that no other player can obtain is NOT comparable to a technique we see the character learn by being taught how to do it

I would agree with you if you said that SAO could have been a better and more unique show if it DID focus on being about video game mechanics (and did so well), rather than just being a run of the mill shonen anime with "it's a VR game world" being the excuse for the characters being able to have these flashy fights in the first place. But that's not what happened, and ultimately, the show isn't very good because it poorly utilises most of the main cast, and gets to a point where the stories it tries to tell are just flat out uncomfortable. Issues with the mechanics and whether or not people would play a game like SAO, are tertiary at best and mostly be written off with "people like bad video games, subjectivity is a thing", or "SAO is a game that lets you live and walk when you otherwise can't, or make love with your ideal girl or actual girlfriend when you are otherwise an anti-social otaku". Even if SAO and the other VR games were badly designed as traditional video games, there are still plenty of reasons people might play them.

There's a multitude of ways to make SAO better, that's just anither one in the list
It being a bad game does matter because it breaks a viewer's suspension of disbelief, the social aspect doesn't matter when things like Pokemon Go have proven that, eventually, people will give up on it and move on

And even so, not everyone who watches this show is well versed in MMO mechanics. Hell, I'm willing to bet most of it's audience isn't. That is just another reason why the game mechanics are so tertiary to the show.

Most of them are not even specific to MMOs.
Anyone thst has played a game can realise the stupid bull**** that's just bad game design

Log Horizon

Man, I should go back to watching that because I hear the second season is even better than the first.
Also, thanks for bringing that up so this doesn't seem to come out of nowhere: Log Horizon is great, it takes the whole "trapped in a MMO" and actually works with it and focuses more on the "how to live inside the game" because it takes the death thing in the total opposite way of SAO, as in, you come back if you're killed, meaning everyone has to learn how to live in it as death is not an option.

And the main characters ARE overpowered but that's justifiable since, well, they're a bunch of nerds who have been playing said MMO for god knows how long and are all capped.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I think this ison e thing we can take from this topic

Watch Re:Zero where respawning after a brutal death is a thing

 

[Wario Bros.]

So this was found in the code of the Famicom Classic Edition:

And I'm still looking for a NES Classic Edition.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not even arguing that SAO is particularly good or anything like that.

But the game mechanics are so insignificant to the overall picture, and it's overall not it's main flaw.



Except the marketing for the show barely emphasised the video game aspect of SAO. Even the tie-in video games you can get don't do so.

View attachment 124602

If you don't otherwise know about the video game aspect of SAO, the posters and advertisements don't do much of anything to emphasise it being set in a video game world, let alone emphasising the mechanics. It just looks like a show set in some kind of fantasy world...which isn't a lie, because that's actually true.

And here's an example of a video commercial:

While you see a shot of Kirito plugging in a headset to go to the video game world, everything else is inside the fantasy world, and the only two tag lines you see are "KIRITO IS BACK" and "SAVE THE WORLD". Again, the video game mechanics aren't touched on here.

Kirito goes into a fantasy world in an MMO. Keywords are 'in an MMO'. The gamepad's dumb and I don't have anything too stable so the video didn't load, so I'm guessing it's a season 2 trailer or something with 'KIRITO IS BACK'. The first episode has Kirito get stuck in the MMO, not being game-y then just stands out as odd. It's just the writer being an idiot and not just doing something like 'Kirito finds a portal in his closet, gets sucked in and awakes in fantasy world'. Boom. That took 5 seconds to think up, if the writer did that, this conversation wouldn't happen as there wouldn't BE an MMO

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

It's the fan service, isn't it?

No
The biggest positives that are in SAO are Asuna's character in the Aincrad and Mother's Rosario arc and the premise of the Aincrad arc. There are other positives, but fan service is NOT one of them.

 

[praline]

I guess nobody cared about my rapid fire pokemon ideas last night.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No
The biggest positives that are in SAO are Asuna's character in the Aincrad and Mother's Rosario arc and the premise of the Aincrad arc. There are other positives, but fan service is NOT one of them.

Oh, I definitely see what you mean about the positives of this "asuna" character

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I guess nobody cared about my rapid fire pokemon ideas last night.

I didnt see it, the pages were going to fast

Oh, I definitely see what you mean about the positives of this "asuna" character

those are some big ears

 

[Deleted member]

There are only two ways to describe SAO to someone who has never heard about it and not including "it's about kids trapped in a MMO' or similars is not one of them.
The first way is to do a simple, unbiased description of it: "a bunch of kids get trapped in a MMO where they die if they're killed"
The second is to just tell what really to expect out of it: "it's a goddamn light novel adaptation about an otaku being overpowered in a MMO for the wish fulfillment of 13-year olds, what do you expect? Also he can die but that doesn't matter because he's got plot armor"

Oh, I definitely see what you mean about the positives of this "asuna" character

Asuna is your usual LN female lead: seemingly strong but has to rely on the MC because she can't do anything without his **** but doesn't want to admit it until... things happen? I dunno
*GLOP* *GLOP* she gets totally forgotten about in GGO *GLOP* *GLOP*

 

[A Distant Demon]

my work needs to have snow delays/snow cancellations

those are some big ears

You know what they say about girls with big ears


or at least I hope you do because I sure dont

 

[praline]

I didnt see it, the pages were going to fast

those are some big ears

Fair enough.

Here they are.

I thought of another pokemon. Lupantle. Dark type, based off the wolf from red riding hood.

I just thought of another pokemon Weathergain. It's a windmill with 4 arms instead of the blades.

Flying/Fighting? Or maybe ground/fighting?

I thought of another 2 stage pokemon.

Candelite: fire type. Based off a birthday candle.
Candelajor: fire/diamond type. Based off a candelabra.

I thought of a 2 stage Pokemon based off spider monkeys.

First stage is Monkider and is fighting type, it evolves into Gorantula, which is also fighting type, but could get a secondary type if someone thinks of a good enough reason for one. Gorantula looks like a 4 armed gorilla.

:D

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

oh hey, another yaoi anime came out this season, Praise the lord, Japan is giving us girls some good stuff

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

my work needs to have snow delays/snow cancellations

You know what they say about girls with big ears


or at least I hope you do because I sure dont

"The better to hear with with"

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

You know what they say about girls with big ears

That they have big ears?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Fair enough.

Here they are.






:D

Lupantle caught my attention. You think there should be the answer Little red riding hood pokemon for it? much like Corsala and that other pokemon?

 

[ChikoLad]

But that's the whole ****ing premise of the show
Just because you could change to another setting and still have the same basic plot structure doesn't make it any less of it

Comparing SAO to Shonen like Naruto is just offensive
The difference between time skips in, say, Naruto and SAO is that Naruto does it once and we know he's off to training.
SAO just throws timeskips every 3 episodes as an excuse to overpower Kirito even more and the fact he was "training" is not even known until it becomes relevant.

That's the thing, the show doesn't go in depth because Reki doesn't even know about what he's writing.
Impossible level grinding is not compared to a physical god given a background in-universe.
A skill he himself doesn't even know how he got it and that no other player can obtain is NOT comparable to a technique we see the character learn by being taught how to do it

There's a multitude of ways to make SAO better, that's just anither one in the list
It being a bad game does matter because it breaks a viewer's suspension of disbelief, the social aspect doesn't matter when things like Pokemon Go have proven that, eventually, people will give up on it and move on

Most of them are not even specific to MMOs.
Anyone thst has played a game can realise the stupid bull**** that's just bad game design

Man, I should go back to watching that because I hear the second season is even better than the first.
Also, thanks for bringing that up so this doesn't seem to come out of nowhere: Log Horizon is great, it takes the whole "trapped in a MMO" and actually works with it and focuses more on the "how to live inside the game" because it takes the death thing in the total opposite way of SAO, as in, you come back if you're killed, meaning everyone has to learn how to live in it as death is not an option.

And the main characters ARE overpowered but that's justifiable since, well, they're a bunch of nerds who have been playing said MMO for god knows how long and are all capped.

And agaaaaain you keep missing my point.

I'm not trying to say "Naruto and DBZ are just as bad as SAO", I'm saying that all of them are just shonen anime with lightly touched upon threads of "logic", because ultimately they are shows about people having flashy fights (though SAO strays from that later on and steers towards murder mystery and slice of life) because people eat that stuff up. Naruto and DBZ do it better, but it's the same concept. Naruto and DBZ aren't actually about spirituality or anything, even though they use "spirit energy" (Chakra and Ki respectively) as their source of power for their characters. SAO isn't actually about video game mechanics, even though it uses "EXP grinding" as the source of power for it's characters.

Kirito goes into a fantasy world in an MMO. Keywords are 'in an MMO'. The gamepad's dumb and I don't have anything too stable so the video didn't load, so I'm guessing it's a season 2 trailer or something with 'KIRITO IS BACK'. The first episode has Kirito get stuck in the MMO, not being game-y then just stands out as odd. It's just the writer being an idiot and not just doing something like 'Kirito finds a portal in his closet, gets sucked in and awakes in fantasy world'. Boom. That took 5 seconds to think up, if the writer did that, this conversation wouldn't happen as there wouldn't BE an MMO

Your own conceived forum post on this day is not marketing that happened when the show was released or even marketing for it now.

Also it's not a Season 2 trailer. It's actually a trailer for the fact Crunchyroll was uploading it after it initially aired on TV. The footage is all from Aincrad. The show was already out, and still, they don't emphasise the video game aspect, even though some people like yourself misinterpret it as being about video games.

At this point I don't see a reason to discuss this further because it's clear the two of you hate the show with a passion and just want any reason to hate on it. Hell, this entire thing started when I replied to someone saying "nobody seems to be in the middle with this show". I say I'm in the middle. Then suddenly "uuuUUUuuh but how did you not find this and this and this offensive????".

 

[praline]

Lupantle caught my attention. You think there should be the answer Little red riding hood pokemon for it? much like Corsala and that other pokemon?

Well I do have a ghost pokemon that is a doll but it's about the closest to a Little Red Riding Hood character I can think of.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Oh, I definitely see what you mean about the positives of this "asuna" character

*sigh* What the frick ever, dude.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And agaaaaain you keep missing my point.

I'm not trying to say "Naruto and DBZ are just as bad as SAO", I'm saying that all of them are just shonen anime with lightly touched upon threads of "logic", because ultimately they are shows about people having flashy fights (though SAO strays from that later on and steers towards murder mystery and slice of life) because people eat that stuff up. Naruto and DBZ do it better, but it's the same concept. Naruto and DBZ aren't actually about spirituality or anything, even though they use "spirit energy" (Chakra and Ki respectively) as their source of power for their characters. SAO isn't actually about video game mechanics, even though it uses "EXP grinding" as the source of power for it's characters.



Your own conceived forum post on this day is not marketing that happened when the show was released or even marketing for it now.

Also it's not a Season 2 trailer. It's actually a trailer for the fact Crunchyroll was uploading it after it initially aired on TV. The footage is all from Aincrad. The show was already out, and still, they don't emphasise the video game aspect, even though some people like yourself misinterpret it as being about video games.

At this point I don't see a reason to discuss this further because it's clear the two of you hate the show with a passion and just want any reason to hate on it. Hell, this entire thing started when I replied to someone saying "nobody seems to be in the middle with this show". I say I'm in the middle. Then suddenly "uuuUUUuuh but how did you not find this and this and this offensive????".

You're an idiot. We aren't misinterpretting anything, YOU are. How is "It's a show in which peeps are stuck in an MMO but it doesn't really do anything with the MMO" suddenly 'Y U NOT BOUT VIDYA GAAAAEEEEENZ'. Shishi was criticizing the lore based off of what we know of from the actual source. You have to be deliberately misinterpretting this tbh. I watched a show in which the main premise was 'guy gets killed, needs to collect 15 mcguffins in 99 days or he dies permanently'. Guess what? That's not what the show was really about, it was about a guy who came back from the dead fighting invading evil spirits while constantly saving victims of the week instead of getting, or better yet, USING the mcguffins to come back to life'. He expires the time limit and has 3 ****ing 'true death' scenes throughout the show

 

[Schnee117]

You're an idiot.

How not to get people to listen to your argument 101.

 

[Chandeelure]

Please, don't fight.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How not to get people to listen to your argument 101.

I know I shouldn't have said that. I also know my wording tends to be poor when explaining something. However, Chiko HAD to deliberately not get the point in order for the conversation to go on for more than 2 posts on both sides

 

[Fluttershy]

Anyone every have some random stranger offer trades online?

I don't like when they do that, because I don't know what they want

And I'm not sure what they expect me to want that they have

It's like receiving an unsolicited DP

Eeyup. They just wanted to show me their shiny Pokemon though.. other times I'm usually in a battle and people keep sending me trade invites or battle invites.. not that I care since I would not be accepting them anyway..

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Well I do have a ghost pokemon that is a doll but it's about the closest to a Little Red Riding Hood character I can think of.

Hm I got an idea, how about making its pre evo a wolf pup thats in Little red riding hood clothing, it evolved into Lupantle but then its last evo is Dark/Ghost and its based off of the grandmother and it looks like Lupantle but a greys elder wolf wearing the clothing of a grandmother like this pic

Spoiler

 

[praline]

Hm I got an idea, how about making its pre evo a wolf pup thats in Little red riding hood clothing, it evolved into Lupantle but then its last evo is Dark/Ghost and its based off of the grandmother and it looks like Lupantle but a greys elder wolf wearing the clothing of a grandmother like this pic

Spoiler

Well Lupantle has the red riding hood clothing so maybe it'd just evolve into the wolf in the grandmothers clothes.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Please, don't fight.

No guys

Fight a lot.
But do it right

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Please, don't fight.

When you said that, It reminds me of the video I saw of two dog fighting in some other country and about 20 people kicking the dogs, tazing the dogs and spraying the dogs to get them to seperate

 

[Deleted member]

And agaaaaain you keep missing my point.

I'm not trying to say "Naruto and DBZ are just as bad as SAO", I'm saying that all of them are just shonen anime with lightly touched upon threads of "logic", because ultimately they are shows about people having flashy fights (though SAO strays from that later on and steers towards murder mystery and slice of life) because people eat that stuff up. Naruto and DBZ do it better, but it's the same concept. Naruto and DBZ aren't actually about spirituality or anything, even though they use "spirit energy" (Chakra and Ki respectively) as their source of power for their characters. SAO isn't actually about video game mechanics, even though it uses "EXP grinding" as the source of power for it's characters.



Your own conceived forum post on this day is not marketing that happened when the show was released or even marketing for it now.

Also it's not a Season 2 trailer. It's actually a trailer for the fact Crunchyroll was uploading it after it initially aired on TV. The footage is all from Aincrad. The show was already out, and still, they don't emphasise the video game aspect, even though some people like yourself misinterpret it as being about video games.

At this point I don't see a reason to discuss this further because it's clear the two of you hate the show with a passion and just want any reason to hate on it. Hell, this entire thing started when I replied to someone saying "nobody seems to be in the middle with this show". I say I'm in the middle. Then suddenly "uuuUUUuuh but how did you not find this and this and this offensive????".

And I'm not saying that you're saying "Naruto and SAO are just as bad", I'm saying it's offensive to compare the two as if they share any plot concepts or anything.
SAO is in no way the typical "action shonen" and having flashy fights doesn't make it so. And "exp" cannot be compared to the 'ki' or whatever other shows use because it's not even ****ing mentioned in SAO and Kirito's off-screen level grinding is just a handwave to his absurd powers.

Even then, I don't see how any of that makes it less about the videogames they're trapped in.
Just because its underlying themes are not about the nature of the games, the show doesn't become any less about people playing videogames, and occasionally dying in them.

Shishi

Heh, I actually like this nickname

Please, don't fight.

I feel like I'm the only one here that's having fun out of this discussion. I guess it looks pretty heated for others but I'm just having a good time of "****ting on **** I dislike"

 

[Burruni]

An idea to accompany a mining area dungeon I had in mind.

Charnary: Fire/Flying, (Flame Body/Illuminate), yellow canary with flame details of plumage around the wings and tail, basically said to burn with flame which makes it glow bright in the dark which lights the way as it roosts on miners. When it evolves....
Falcorch: Fire/Flying, (Haunting: Ghost-type Steelworks), body turns more ashen and dull, making its red underbelly and firey plumage more impressive, a skull-like mask placed overt itself (looking a bit like a gas mask).

Y'know, the whole canary as a gas indicator thing of mining?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

An idea to accompany a mining area dungeon I had in mind.

Charnary: Fire/Flying, (Flame Body/Illuminate), yellow canary with flame details of plumage around the wings and tail, basically said to burn with flame which makes it glow bright in the dark which lights the way as it roosts on miners. When it evolves....
Falcorch: Fire/Flying, (Haunting: Ghost-type Steelworks), body turns more ashen and dull, making its red underbelly and firey plumage more impressive, a skull-like mask placed overt itself (looking a bit like a gas mask).

Y'know, the whole canary as a gas indicator thing of mining?

Wouldn't Anticipation be a more fitting ability?

 

[Coricus]

Thinking about that rumored Warriors game again because I just saw LKD confirming it's not Zelda or Star Fox (not that the latter needed confirming since she was the one who said that was canned in the first place IIRC).

If it's Mario Warriors, I won't care. If its about any of the other viable options, though. . .there's decent chance I'd care about it MORE than Zelda Warriors.

Other than Mario, the Reddit thread is talking mostly about three options: Fire Emblem Warriors, Kirby Warriors, and Kid Icarus Warriors.

The first I'd at least consider depending on how many characters I recognize, the second I'd be all over, and the last one I don't even NEED to say how I'd feel about it.

One person also said Pokemon Warriors, and heck, I'd be all over that too.

Basically I'm rooting for "not Mario" at this point. Just give me anything other than Mario and this has a pretty good chance of being added to my Switchlist.

*EDIT* Well, a couple of people also said Metroid, which I also wouldn't care about , but. . .I doubt it. Not because Nintendo hates Metroid, but because the cast is so skewed towards villains that don't even have reasons to fight between each other that it just doesn't seem like it would be considered.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wouldn't Anticipation be a more fitting ability?

Already taken, it says "Coragunk's Anticipation made it shudder!" to warn the guy with Croagunk if the enemy has a dangerous move
Y'know, Forewarn, except Forewarn tells you WHAT the move is

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I need Mario Warriors like I need oxygen and sleep

EDIT: Multiple Pokés can have the same ability

 

[ChikoLad]

You're an idiot. We aren't misinterpretting anything, YOU are. How is "It's a show in which peeps are stuck in an MMO but it doesn't really do anything with the MMO" suddenly 'Y U NOT BOUT VIDYA GAAAAEEEEENZ'. Shishi was criticizing the lore based off of what we know of from the actual source. You have to be deliberately misinterpretting this tbh. I watched a show in which the main premise was 'guy gets killed, needs to collect 15 mcguffins in 99 days or he dies permanently'. Guess what? That's not what the show was really about, it was about a guy who came back from the dead fighting invading evil spirits while constantly saving victims of the week instead of getting, or better yet, USING the mcguffins to come back to life'. He expires the time limit and has 3 ****ing 'true death' scenes throughout the show

Calling me an idiot over the fact I don't see eye to eye with you on SAO, is not how you change my mind on:

At this point I don't see a reason to discuss this further because it's clear the two of you hate the show with a passion and just want any reason to hate on it.

Also FYI, the only reason I was still discussing this is because Shishoe said they thought it was an interesting discussion, and decided to quote a post of mine from yesterday on the topic. That's perfectly fine, and since they were still pretty civil about it, I was willing to discuss the topic a little more. Normally though, I wouldn't respond to a quote to a post of mine from a day ago, because that means the same topic is eating up too much time.

At this point, we should agree to disagree. I think it's also fair to say that a piece of media can be about a different thing for different people. Like how Smash is about meticulous competitive play for some, and mindless party fun for others.

No guys

Fight a lot.
But do it right

Are you mad?

That would only lead to even worse tensions.

I am the "cancer of Smash" after all. :V

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I would honestly be down with a Mario Warriors game.

Mainly because it would be very bizarre to see Mario characters in that style of gameplay.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Just give me anything other than Mario and this has a pretty good chance of being added to my Switchlist.

To bad a new mario game is inevitable

 

[Burruni]

Wouldn't Anticipation be a more fitting ability?

As an HA for Charnary, prooobably.
But flame body and illuminate tie into its purpose "in-world," while forewarn would better fit the inspiration, y'know?