Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Diddy Kong]

-Likes Tyrell
-Dislikes Karis

I think this is the first time I've heard this combination.

Karis is generally the most popular of the group besides Amiti and Sveta and for good reason.

She's cool personality wise. I like that she's a little more fierce in character than regular Wind Adepts. It's just her combat that I found lacking, especially compared to Ivan. Never used Sheba a lot, so she might hold up better than her I dunno.

Yes Tyrell, he's cool and actually funny. The only obnoxious thing I felt he did was crashing the soarwing. He's smarter than Garet, but shares many traits. I still see little reason to dislike him. He's got strong Psynergy also.

Amiti and Sveta are good developed characters as well yeah. Rief got benched immediately after recruiting Amiti.

Story is actually pretty good so far. It takes time to adjust to it, and was literally confused by almost anything past Goma Plateau. But the restoring lost civilisations part is well thought about. The more the story progresses the more sense it makes.

 

[Skyblade12]

I also think a lot of Dark Dawn's story doesn't make much sense compared to the first two games. Lot's of plotholes, and I keep on asking just where all these towns and ancient civilisations come from. 30 years after The Lost Age and the Golden Sun bringing Alchemy back to Weyard are not really satisfying answers to me. It began GREAT with the Goma Plateu and Isaac's directly explaining a lot, but leave Goma Plateu and I don't recognise anything... Dark Dawn made a lot of curious choices in regard to story-line.

Also, I really like Tyrell actually. He's hilarious. I don't think he's an exact copy of Garet either. He's real strong early on because of all the Mars Djinni you find, and he's got great Psynergy. Karis is the one who cannot compare to Ivan. Matthew is just a happy-go-lucky Isaac, which is cool, and he learns Growth.

Supposedly, they were there, and either hidden, or simply in areas we didn't visit. Yes, it's a bit of a retcon, but it's hardly the most troubling aspect of the game to me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Supposedly, they were there, and either hidden, or simply in areas we didn't visit. Yes, it's a bit of a retcon, but it's hardly the most troubling aspect of the game to me.

Well yeah that's true but I yet am to gasp as where did the other actual towns go we DID visit as Xian, Vault, lots of places. Just about any town is new. Which is sort of refreshing, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Then again it's mostly in Angara, probably one of the least visited yet important continents in Weyard so it's all good.

 

[Ura]

I can never get over the fact that Isaac is the splitting image of Gohan from the Cell Games arc of DBZ.

 

[N3ON]

Made a thing.

Because obviously the SNES didn't have enough RPGs ;P

Might see about getting my bf to hack GS into our SNES Classic. >_>

 

[Ura]

Made a thing.

Because obviously the SNES didn't have enough RPGs ;P

Might see about getting my bf to hack GS into our SNES Classic. >_>

Y'know Golden Sun being an SNES title could have helped Isaac's chances of making it in to Smash.

Hell, he could have made it in to Smash 64 over Ness for all we know lol. After all Golden Sun and it's sequel sold over a million copies.

Imagine Isaac as a Smash staple with as much seniority as C.Falcon.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Supporting this!


Isaac is definitely a character that truly deserves to be in Smash and has an unique moveset

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still am not able to understand how anyone could hate Tyrell. He easily got the best lines in Dark Dawn!

Matthew, Karis, Tyrell, Rief and Amiti lying on the cold ground taking some herbal medicine that makes them enter the Phatasmal Bog in Kolima...

Rief: How did we arrive into this situation, exactly?
Tyrell: Matthew can be talked into anything- that's how.

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS DUDE!?

Then again, I really liked Garet as well in the original games. Shame they didn't get all too much dialogue after a while (especially after the Jupiter Lighthouse event, and the two teams joing up). That is a part where Dark Dawn did really shine, actual characterisation. Or at least, sort of.

Dark Dawn is a great game overall. Shame we never got a fourth game. This franchise needs to excist.

 

[Freduardo]

I still am not able to understand how anyone could hate Tyrell. He easily got the best lines in Dark Dawn!

Matthew, Karis, Tyrell, Rief and Amiti lying on the cold ground taking some herbal medicine that makes them enter the Phatasmal Bog in Kolima...

Rief: How did we arrive into this situation, exactly?
Tyrell: Matthew can be talked into anything- that's how.

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS DUDE!?

Then again, I really liked Garet as well in the original games. Shame they didn't get all too much dialogue after a while (especially after the Jupiter Lighthouse event, and the two teams joing up). That is a part where Dark Dawn did really shine, actual characterisation. Or at least, sort of.

Dark Dawn is a great game overall. Shame we never got a fourth game. This franchise needs to excist.

At this point your best hope for a new golden sun game is if they decide to do Golden Sun X Xenoblade.

Which... yeah, I could see Camelot and Monolith teaming up for that.

 

[Ura]

At this point your best hope for a new golden sun game is if they decide to do Golden Sun X Xenoblade.

Which... yeah, I could see Camelot and Monolith teaming up for that.

I wouldn't say a new Golden Sun game is impossible to happen. It's something that can very easily pop back up in any given year.

Though I do agree people shouldn't actively be expecting Golden Sun at Nintendo related events. That's just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Also me when I still hope for Advance Wars at Nintendo events because i'm a friggin idiot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I still am not able to understand how anyone could hate Tyrell. He easily got the best lines in Dark Dawn!

Matthew, Karis, Tyrell, Rief and Amiti lying on the cold ground taking some herbal medicine that makes them enter the Phatasmal Bog in Kolima...

Rief: How did we arrive into this situation, exactly?
Tyrell: Matthew can be talked into anything- that's how.

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS DUDE!?

Then again, I really liked Garet as well in the original games. Shame they didn't get all too much dialogue after a while (especially after the Jupiter Lighthouse event, and the two teams joing up). That is a part where Dark Dawn did really shine, actual characterisation. Or at least, sort of.

Dark Dawn is a great game overall. Shame we never got a fourth game. This franchise needs to excist.

Dark Dawn was pretty good.

I JUST HATE POINTS OF NO RETURN!

LOATHE THEM!!!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dark Dawn was pretty good.

I JUST HATE POINTS OF NO RETURN!

LOATHE THEM!!!

Yeah I didn't feel much for those either, and they are pretty damn frequent. I haven't missed any Djinn unfortunately, but that is the MAIN reason it hurts the game only. It makes sense in the story, but it seriously can be demotivating if you have missed a Djinn. And I already got a heavy imbalance of Djinn. Rief has basically become my Djinn bench.

I also find it strange that outside of Isaac and Garet there aren't appearances of other playable characters. Certain NPCs get more screen time than them. And Dark Dawn also seems a lot shorter than the other two games.

And really it's weird they didn't make a new Golden Sun right after like they did with The Lost Age. Seems like Camelot wasn't that motivated to continue the story. Which sucks cause it ends with a open ending.

 

[Ura]

And really it's weird they didn't make a new Golden Sun right after like they did with The Lost Age. Seems like Camelot wasn't that motivated to continue the story. Which sucks cause it ends with a open ending.

And after DD's sales they're even less motivated to make a new game.

Not to mention they weren't even interested in making a sequel after TLA which sold over a million copies (along with it's predecessor). Imagine the apathy they have now.

 

[N3ON]

Series that more often that not blow past a million sales should be given a little bit of leniency if a single title doesn't reach that metric. You'd expect it'd deserve more than than being all but forgotten after a single blip. Almost every Nintendo series has experienced a below average iteration, yet unless they truly bomb (which afaik DD didn't) they're given another shot.

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac's a weird one for me.
Ever since I joined Smashboards, I put him on every fan roster I made, a trait that is only shared by King K. Rool as far as newcomers go (To clarify, those weren't predictions), and his design always looked cool to me (Insert "muh animu swordsman" arguement here), and any roster I saw that didn't have him felt somewhat incomplete.
And yet, I haven't actually played his game until a week ago (not even very far yet, which will likely stay that way until December, and that is if I don't get busier than I am now).
So Idk if you should count me as a supporter... But I want Isaac in Smash.

 

[Ghirahilda]

So, young Isaac or adult Isaac?

 

[Freduardo]

So, young Isaac or adult Isaac?

Adult isaac’s abe Lincoln beard looks like a palette swap of ganondorf.

 

[Ura]

So, young Isaac or adult Isaac?

Keep bearded Isaac the hell away from Smash please.

Everyone wants the classic Isaac that we've all come to know and love.

 

[N3ON]

Isaac's a weird one for me.
Ever since I joined Smashboards, I put him on every fan roster I made, a trait that is only shared by King K. Rool as far as newcomers go (To clarify, those weren't predictions), and his design always looked cool to me (Insert "muh animu swordsman" arguement here), and any roster I saw that didn't have him felt somewhat incomplete.
And yet, I haven't actually played his game until a week ago (not even very far yet, which will likely stay that way until December, and that is if I don't get busier than I am now).
So Idk if you should count me as a supporter... But I want Isaac in Smash.

Tbh I think there's a lot of supporting characters without playing their games that goes on. I mean for as popular as K. Rool is, you'd think he had even a single major appearance in a headlining DK more recently than nearly two decades ago.

And then of course there are characters like Takamaru and Geno.

But support is support. It need not be contingent on whether the game has actually played to be valid.

So, young Isaac or adult Isaac?

If Isaac is going to be playable, I suspect they'd draw from the more iconic, actually playable (past an intro) version of the character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I also suspect the young look of Isaac. Then again, I can only imagine Isaac getting in if he gets a new appearance. Which would mean the older version, which doesn't look that different anyway.

 

[Ura]

I also suspect the young look of Isaac. Then again, I can only imagine Isaac getting in if he gets a new appearance. Which would mean the older version, which doesn't look that different anyway.

If they were going for relevancy then Matthew or whoever the main protag of GS4 is (if that ever gets released) would be the playable character. DD Isaac would be a total non-factor.

Although if they were going to add a GS character I hope they would go down the path instead. Have classic Isaac as the main playable character and then whoever the GS4 protag is would be a semi-clone of Isaac.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am certain Isaac would still be notable in the newest Golden Sun. Wouldn't make much sense if he didn't. He could be a late party addition for example. Matthew and his team plus a few old and new faces would be something. Game could be split up in different parties much like FE Radiant Dawn.

 

[Ura]

Am certain Isaac would still be notable in the newest Golden Sun. Wouldn't make much sense if he didn't. He could be a late party addition for example. Matthew and his team plus a few old and new faces would be something. Game could be split up in different parties much like FE Radiant Dawn.

Well he wasn't playable in DD. I don't see that changing in the next game.

At best in GS4 we could see all the playable characters from The Broken Seal and The Lost Age making cameos throughout the game.

 

[pikadrewuniverse]

Yes! Isaac is who I voted for in the Smash 4 ballot, really sad there wasn't more support.

 

[N3ON]

If they continue Matthew's story, I don't expect Isaac to have a huge presence. He'll be there, sure, but he probably won't be playable. He's basically the mentor now.

And yeah, if they want to play the recency game, Isaac isn't going to be the character chosen.

However I figure they'll probably do a Marth type deal, at least as long as Isaac remains by far the most popular and identifiable character in the series. Though I don't think there will be a Roy equivalent, maybe an alt at best.

 

[shinhed-echi]

At this point, I think it's better to make a sequel to DD, and remaster DD as well (fixing its flaws), to have it able to link to its sequel.

As to having two character slots, and who represents which, maybe it should be Teen Isaac + Mathew alt, and... Felix + whoever the DD sequel could be as an alt?

Personally, I'd love to see Jenna after Isaac, but that's not happening. And Garet is probably the one chosen to be an AT over Jenna, Mia or Ivan.

 

[Ura]

If they continue Matthew's story, I don't expect Isaac to have a huge presence. He'll be there, sure, but he probably won't be playable. He's basically the mentor now.

And yeah, if they want to play the recency game, Isaac isn't going to be the character chosen.

However I figure they'll probably do a Marth type deal, at least as long as Isaac remains by far the most popular and identifiable character in the series. Though I don't think there will be a Roy equivalent, maybe an alt at best.

I can see it.

Isaac gets in being the most popular character in the franchise and the most iconic while the GS4 protag gets in to advertise the new game.

There could be ways to make a decent semi-clone of Isaac.

i.e. Isaac's Side B (Move) would function similar to how it does in SSF2. The GS4 protag would also have Move but his/her attack goes extremely fast and can't be controlled; going straight through the stage horizontally.

At this point, I think it's better to make a sequel to DD, and remaster DD as well (fixing its flaws), to have it able to link to its sequel.

As to having two character slots, and who represents which, maybe it should be Teen Isaac + Mathew alt, and... Felix + whoever the DD sequel could be as an alt?

Personally, I'd love to see Jenna after Isaac, but that's not happening. And Garet is probably the one chosen to be an AT over Jenna, Mia or Ivan.

If there's going to be a GS AT it should either be Alex or Saturos/Menardi.

Most likely since the former is still very relevant in the story and Saturos/Menardi are long dead by the time of DD.

 

[N3ON]

I dunno, even with GS4, I think the series would be lucky enough to get representation. Though that depends on the reception of GS4. New series don't typically get multiple reps, let alone a relatively minor series like GS.

Obviously there are many ways a semi-clone could work, but a lack of potential never was and never will be the issue with GS getting representation.

The only exception I can imagine would be if we get a Marth/Lucina deal where Matthew was intended to be an alt but Sakurai reconsidered and made him his own character.

Frankly after all this time, I'd be more than satisfied with GS just getting Isaac.

 

[Ura]

I dunno, even with GS4, I think the series would be lucky enough to get representation. Though that depends on the reception of GS4. New series don't typically get multiple reps, let alone a relatively minor series like GS.

Obviously there are many ways a semi-clone could work, but a lack of potential never was and never will be the issue with GS getting representation.

The only exception I can imagine would be if we get a Marth/Lucina deal where Matthew was intended to be an alt but Sakurai reconsidered and made him his own character.

Frankly after all this time, I'd be more than satisfied with GS just getting Isaac.

Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. At this juncture Golden Sun getting anything would be a major positive lol.

I brought that up because if by some miracle GS4 happens and Sakurai/Nintendo decides to add a Golden Sun character in to Smash then they'll most likely want someone who could promote their newer games like the new protag of whatever game that would be. An alt could suffice but I don't imagine Nintendo would like their promotional character being relegated to an alternate costume as opposed to being visible on the CSS for everyone to see.

Of course those are some pretty major if's were talking here to get to that point.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. At this juncture Golden Sun getting anything would be a major positive lol.

I brought that up because if by some miracle GS4 happens and Sakurai/Nintendo decides to add a Golden Sun character in to Smash then they'll most likely want someone who could promote their newer games like the new protag of whatever game that would be. An alt could suffice but I don't imagine Nintendo would like their promotional character being relegated to an alternate costume as opposed to being visible on the CSS for everyone to see.

Of course those are some pretty major if's were talking here to get to that point.

It's possible but tbh the only ones who seem overtly determined to include the newest character from their series are Game Freak and Intelligent Systems.

I think Nintendo themselves gives Sakurai a decent amount of free reign, and we've really no idea how Camelot would handle a series they have stake in.

 

[Ura]

It's possible but tbh the only ones who seem overtly determined to include the newest character from their series are Game Freak and Intelligent Systems.

I think Nintendo themselves gives Sakurai a decent amount of free reign, and we've really no idea how Camelot would handle a series they have stake in.

That;s true. We have no idea hoe Camelot would want their characters to be like in Smash Bros. If they want to put an emphasis on advertisement and whatnot.

If they were I imagine they would be closer to an IS rather than a GF. We know Intelligent Systems was a lot easier to work with VS Game Freak for Sakurai.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That;s true. We have no idea hoe Camelot would want their characters to be like in Smash Bros. If they want to put an emphasis on advertisement and whatnot.

If they were I imagine they would be closer to an IS rather than a GF. We know Intelligent Systems was a lot easier to work with VS Game Freak for Sakurai.

I remember hearing Game Freak was easy to work with. The Pokemon Company was the real problem, they're very VERY particular at how Pokemon is represented in other media.

I digress, I feel like Camelot would be more than happy to oblige them with their characters. They don't seem to be the type of company that's particularly hard to work with.

 

[Deleted member]

@True Blue Warrior Could you add me to the support list please?

 

[Ura]

I remember hearing Game Freak was easy to work with. The Pokemon Company was the real problem, they're very VERY particular at how Pokemon is represented in other media.

I digress, I feel like Camelot would be more than happy to oblige them with their characters. They don't seem to be the type of company that's particularly hard to work with.

Yeah it's the TPCi I think that's the big problem. They're the ones who always make a big fuss about things and demand things be made a certain way. GF I think is more easier to work with in that regard.

TBH I think Camelot would be thrilled to have any of their characters in Smash Bros lol. Doubt they would want to be picky on something like that.

 

[Deleted member]

TPCi are way too protective of their IP, which sucks because I'd love a Greninja themed Mii outfit in Mario Kart 8. :/

As for Isaac vs new protag, I think they'd pick Isaac.
I mean, Leif wasn't included over Marth in Melee despite being the most recent Fire Emblem protagonist (Roy doesn't count because his game wasn't even released yet), why would it be different this time around?

inb4 anyone brings up Ness being in over Ninten, I think it's because Earthbound actually released in the states at the time, unlike Mother 1.

 

[Ura]

TPCi are way too protective of their IP, which sucks because I'd love a Greninja themed Mii outfit in Mario Kart 8. :/

As for Isaac vs new protag, I think they'd pick Isaac.
I mean, Leif wasn't included over Marth in Melee despite being the most recent Fire Emblem protagonist (Roy doesn't count because his game wasn't even released yet), why would it be different this time around?

inb4 anyone brings up Ness being in over Ninten, I think it's because Earthbound actually released in the states at the time, unlike Mother 1.

Leif was never even considered in Melee. That's just a rumor that somehow a lot of people believe. A really dumb rumor at that but whatever.

And yes I agree about the Ness/Ninten example. Another reason I think Ness was added in is because he looks so similar to Ninten so it wasn't a big deal to have him in the game over Ninten.

 

[Deleted member]

Leif was never even considered in Melee. That's just a rumor that somehow a lot of people believe. A really dumb rumor at that but whatever.

I didn't even know that rumor was a thing, I was just using Leif and Marth as a comparison.

Marth and Isaac = "face" of the franchise, protagonist of the first game
Leif and hypothetical GS4 protag = Most recent protagonists, promotional material for their games

Marth was included over Leif.
Isaac would probably be included over a GS4 protagonist for the same reason.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Looks like original/young Isaac gets more love...
But this doesn't mean that you guys will get angry if Adult Isaac is chosen, right?

 

[Staarih]

As many before me, I too think Isaac would be the way to go for playable GS representation, he's the Marth of the series if any sort of comparison could be done. While not the main protag in all games, he still appears in all of them and usually has somewhat of an important role, and is the most iconic character, really.

And young Isaac in particular, that is. And preferably him too. However, I do think Isaac's original design is slowly becoming a bit outdated, somehow it's just starting to look sort of weird and bland haha, so an update to his younger look with some elements of his adult design would be great. Though I guess that's essentially Matthew's look then haha!

Love to see this thread active again. Damn, how I'd loooove GS4 like, right now.

 

[Ura]

Looks like original/young Isaac gets more love...
But this doesn't mean that you guys will get angry if Adult Isaac is chosen, right?

I will.

I loathe Adult Isaac's design.