Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Pupp135]

How many votes were there?

Based on the original post, roughly 300.

For the veteran rankings, it was done based on taking the number of votes supporting their return subtracted by the number of votes opposing their return. Personally, I think it would have been better to use a proportion of those supporting their return.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Based on the original post, roughly 300.

For the veteran rankings, it was done based on taking the number of votes supporting their return subtracted by the number of votes opposing their return. Personally, I think it would have been better to use a proportion of those supporting their return.

Only 300.

My poll reigns supreme.

 

[Louie G.]

Overall, the poll mostly didn’t surprise me much where King K. Rool and Ridley were the two most wanted veterans, and most of the mainstays were in the top 30/35 (I thought Fox would be top 30 though). When I look at the lower positions, I’m shocked to see Aegis as low as they are admittedly (just barely out of the bottom 20).

I'm not that surprised at Aegis placing this low, because Xenoblade 2 still remains something of a controversial game and the community harbors that infamous bias against JRPG adjacent characters. They're also considered annoying to fight against by some people because they're quite good. From what I'm reading it seems like people voted across the entire roster for both who they wanted to stay and who they wanted to be cut, with Aegis clocking in at 41 votes against them. But that still left 116 votes in favor of their return.

I'm not sure much can be garnered by these results on the whole, but I guess it's worth noting that Min-Min, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Corrin and Young Link are the only characters who have distinctly more votes in favor of their exclusion than their return. So these characters are not symptoms of vocal minority backlash but are instead, apparently, more disliked than they are liked. I suspect Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link are just ambivalence over outright hatred, but we all know how the community feels about Corrin and (unfortunately) Min-Min. So not all that surprising.

It's nice, albeit unsurprising as well, to see K. Rool and Ridley as high profile returnees. I'm sure Ridley will return no matter what but I hope that they have taken notice of K. Rool's intense swell of love and support among fans both old and new. The amount of votes in favor of characters individually are more valuable than the votes against, which are at its core just kind of petty and meaningless.

Not that interested in the newcomer polls though, other than reaffirming some of what we already know about characters like Waluigi and Bandana Dee I think these kind of relatively small-sample Reddit polls are more echo-chambery than they are reflections of the wider community taste. The veteran one is interesting because there aren't as many polls conducted this way to begin with.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I saw the post about the poll made on the last page. I'd hate to talk about this again, but not that I am cheering this character on, but I do think there is a mishap.

For Geno, while he did not make the top 5, I am glad he made the top 10 from what I saw. Still, was it accurate to put him in with the Nintendo characters instead of the third party ones? I mean, he is still owned by Square Enix, is he not?

Anyhow, I am glad Ridley and King K. Rool, especially King K. Rool, were high up as wanted returning veterans.

 

[Pupp135]

I saw the post about the poll made on the last page. I'd hate to talk about this again, but not that I am cheering this character on, but I do think there is a mishap.

For Geno, while he did not make the top 5, I am glad he made the top 10 from what I saw. Still, was it accurate to put him in with the Nintendo characters instead of the third party ones? I mean, he is still owned by Square Enix, is he not?

Anyhow, I am glad Ridley and King K. Rool, especially King K. Rool, were high up as wanted returning veterans.

Geno is technically third party, but I guess his association with Mario is why he was voted for Nintendo. Oddly enough, he also appeared in the third party section at 32nd.
The overall newcomer results count him twice: once for the Nintendo section, and once for the third party one.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Geno is technically third party, but I guess his association with Mario is why he was voted for Nintendo. Oddly enough, he also appeared in the third party section at 32nd.

Yeah, I figured. I missed him hint he third party section, though I am not surprised that he ranked that much there.

I guess you could say, Geno is actually so fast he could be in two places at once?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I suspect Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link are just ambivalence over outright hatred,

Especially the latter two since they are seen as examples of only coming back in Ultimate because of Everyone Is Here.

One fact is that Plant got more votes for staying then characters like Sheik who has 84 while Plant has 93. Also more overall than Lucina. Chrom is the lowest that isn't negative.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Here is something I wish to say...

In terms of popular characters, I wonder, while it is not wrong inherently to root for such characters to get into a Smash Bros. game, is it wrong to cast less popular (but not necessarily hated) characters aside in favor of the popular characters and go as far as to pick on those who want characters that are not popular? I mean, even the less popular characters, like say Wart from Super Mario Bros. 2 USA and Captain Syrup from Wario Land, could make good characters, which not everyone knows. Those two are just examples, of course, but I feel that not many who don't know who such characters are realize their potential, and those people who want more popular characters and pick on others who want the less popular ones are not being good sports and are not being friendly and are just mean, especially when such characters could play in interesting ways, probably more so than the popular characters themselves. There may be popular picks, but not every character has to be popular to be in Smash and work well.

I suspect Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link are just ambivalence over outright hatred, but we all know how the community feels about Corrin and (unfortunately) Min-Min. So not all that surprising.

And I would say the first three, especially Young Link and Pichu, are over hated for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Noipoi]

It's nice, albeit unsurprising as well, to see K. Rool and Ridley as high profile returnees. I'm sure Ridley will return no matter what but I hope that they have taken notice of K. Rool's intense swell of love and support among fans both old and new. The amount of votes in favor of characters individually are more valuable than the votes against, which are at its core just kind of petty and meaningless.

I know it's impossible to tell without more games coming out, but I think King K Rool will be one of those characters where, no matter what's going on in his home series, he'll have a place in Smash. Kinda like Captain Falcon.

The real challenge will be getting him back in Donkey Kong games

 

[MBRedboy31]

It’d be interesting if they made it so that inputting a grab as Little Mac makes him do an unblockable attack instead of an actual grab, that has similar frame data to a standard grab. Maybe it’d pop the enemy up with a decent amount of hitstun, so it’d essentially be a Multiversus shield breaker attack. It’d be a way to have him not be terrible vs. shields without the dissonance of having him be good at grabbing enemies instead of punching.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It's nice, albeit unsurprising as well, to see K. Rool and Ridley as high profile returnees. I'm sure Ridley will return no matter what but I hope that they have taken notice of K. Rool's intense swell of love and support among fans both old and new. The amount of votes in favor of characters individually are more valuable than the votes against, which are at its core just kind of petty and meaningless.

I feel the same about Ridley.

I am hoping that K. Rool has something going on (as in like an appearance) in Bananza beyond just cameos/being referenced by Cranky, even if he's not important overall. I am getting weird vibes from the enemies that you smash to reveal like crocodile skeletons, I think they're called Crockoids, though obviously that might not mean anything. They obviously know how popular he is since the Ballot results took them by surprise, so I feel like he's at least safe for Smash, but I am hoping he gets some appearances elsewhere now that that popularity is a known factor.

Like even outside of Bananza, I'd love to see K. Rool in more spinoffs like how he was in Mario Super Sluggers. Like put him in Mario Kart or something, just have him show up somewhere lol

 

[Louie G.]

I know it's impossible to tell without more games coming out, but I think King K Rool will be one of those characters where, no matter what's going on in his home series, he'll have a place in Smash. Kinda like Captain Falcon.

I hope so! I feel like that's easier said of characters who exist as primary representatives of their series (Fox, Captain Falcon, Ness, Pit, Little Mac...) and is automatically shakier ground for those more supplemental picks. Which is why I'd be hesitant to jump fully on board there.

That said I feel like there's plenty of credibility to assessing someone like K. Rool or maybe Palutena as equivalent to a more contemporary Jigglypuff or Falco expy - similarly, it's pretty hard to see those characters going anywhere even with the state of the series / a character's role in that series being in flux. There's more of a question mark here. But their unique gameplay, ease of development and/or widespread community popularity keep them healthily afloat. It's easy to apply this logic to old favorites but Smash 4 and Ultimate have definitely supplied us with a new generation of mainstays yet to be fully established.

 

[ninjahmos]

Not only am I hoping K. Rool returns for the next Smash game, but also for Bananza. Like as a secret final boss or something.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

They obviously know how popular he is since the Ballot results took them by surprise, so I feel like he's at least safe for Smash, but I am hoping he gets some appearances elsewhere now that that popularity is a known factor.

Although would he have joined Smash if it wasn't for the ballot?

 

[Noipoi]

Not only am I hoping K. Rool returns for the next Smash game, but also for Bananza. Like as a secret final boss or something.

Even if he was an npc, maybe in one of the later worlds, that'd be great.

I just want to see him.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Although would he have joined Smash if it wasn't for the ballot?

I feel like he probably wouldn't have. Without his performance on the Ballot, we probably wouldn't have even gotten the K. Rool Mii Costume frankly.

His last appearance had been a Mario spinoff from like 7-10 years prior that didn't even release in all regions, and his last DK game appearance I think was as an unlockable in Barrel Blast which is typically not looked upon kindly. (For reference this is also the last game Lanky was in if that tells you anything lmao)

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Quoting myself from another thread:

Specifically, some stages from these games would be nice. Though I'd wanna see them in a modern artstyle instead of being 8-bit like other retro stages.

There was a poll that I found recently on the SuperSmashBros subreddit showing the most requested fighters.

Overall, the poll mostly didn’t surprise me much where King K. Rool and Ridley were the two most wanted veterans, and most of the mainstays were in the top 30/35 (I thought Fox would be top 30 though). When I look at the lower positions, I’m shocked to see Aegis as low as they are admittedly (just barely out of the bottom 20).

From the newcomers, Waluigi, Bandana Waddle Dee, Shadow, Crash, and Eggman occupying the top 5 doesn’t shock me at all, but I’m shocked to see Lloyd Irving, Bomberman, and Ryu Hayabusa missing the top 40 newcomers for third parties specifically.

From Nintendo newcomer side, it was nice to see Skull Kid in top 3, King Boo in the top 15, Dry Bones, Gengar, and Hector in the top 40.

Kinda surprised to see King Boo place well, cause I didn't see him as a particularly popular choice.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Okay.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

think was as an unlockable in Barrel Blast which is typically not looked upon kindly. (For reference this is also the last game Lanky was in if that tells you anything lmao)

Although weirdly enough the voice clips from that game are still used for Funky Kong in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and by extension Wii. Also applies to Diddy Kong but not 100% sure about if it’s from Barrel Blast.

Most if not all of the new characters in Deluxe don’t have new voice clips. Like how Bowswr Jr’s selection line is from Wii.

 

[NintenRob]

You know, that poll only has a really small sample size, but because Skull Kid was in the top 3, I shall now be taking it as gospel

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They're also considered annoying to fight against by some people because they're quite good.

From what I understand they're in the "give them everything except health" design camp which is starting to get more and more maligned with fighting game fans.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

You know, that poll only has a really small sample size, but because Skull Kid was in the top 3, I shall now be taking it as gospel

He also did well in the other poll or at least in the Zelda category.

 

[NintenRob]

He also did well in the other poll or at least in the Zelda category.

I followed Swamps poll pretty closely and personally voted. Seeing him top the cast was good but it was neck and neck between Skull Kid, Impa and Midna. And they didn't crack top ten, with Skull Kid peeking at 12.

 

[Shinuto]

Man, i just think it'd be cool for Mario kart to branch out a bit more and adding stuff from the RPG's would be perfect for that

As much as I love the inclusion of bizarre **** like penguin cow and coin coin coffer knowing Nintendo put them in here means we'll never see the side game characters? It irritates me. I hate how they just refuse to use em outside their own games

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I followed Swamps poll pretty closely and personally voted. Seeing him top the cast was good but it was neck and neck between Skull Kid, Impa and Midna. And they didn't crack top ten, with Skull Kid peeking at 12.

Honestly Zelda's situation is pretty strange. Three very popular choices that are head and shoulders above other candidates. All three choices are roughly as popular as each other.

And yet, I don't think many people think any of them actually have a chance.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Honestly Zelda's situation is pretty strange. Three very popular choices that are head and shoulders above other candidates. All three choices are roughly as popular as each other.

And yet, I don't think many people think any of them actually have a chance.

Preeeeetty much.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly Zelda's situation is pretty strange. Three very popular choices that are head and shoulders above other candidates. All three choices are roughly as popular as each other.

And yet, I don't think many people think any of them actually have a chance.

I mean, when your best shots are two one-offs from the N64 and Gamecube (who granted I think would be cool additions) and the one other commonly recurring character is most regularly an old woman outside of OoT, Skyward Sword, and two spinoffs made by another company that I doubt would be the primary basis for the character...

Like making it clear, I do think Zelda is due for a character, and some of the popular ones would be really neat, but it's a really rough position to be in when most recurring characters are basically in the game already, and the other is most commonly an elderly woman. Could always get a one-shot, Sheik does exist, and I don't think they'd want to ignore the Wilds era since it was huge, but those characters don't normally pull the big numbers lol

And then there's Tingle but like, his Assist Trophy didn't even come back, so like...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Impa gets into Smash, but now as an odd transformation character that can change from young to old with former having quicker speed and the latter with stronger damage (thanks to hitting people with a cane).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Impa gets into Smash, but now as an odd transformation character that can change from young to old with former having quicker speed and the latter with stronger damage (thanks to hitting people with a cane).

Impa is the next Pokémon Trainer between young, old, and hefty.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Honestly Zelda's situation is pretty strange. Three very popular choices that are head and shoulders above other candidates. All three choices are roughly as popular as each other.

And yet, I don't think many people think any of them actually have a chance.

Also the fact that Zelda hasn’t had an original character since Sheik and Zelda in Melee. Ganondorf outside of moveset.

TP and BOTW are victims of bad timing for example if it’s about adding new characters for Brawl and Ultimate respectively.

Although it’s kinda weird that Skyward Sword didn’t get any characters. Also Wind Waker outside of Toon Link and the scrapped Toon Zelda/Sheik.

 

[Arcanir]

Like making it clear, I do think Zelda is due for a character, and some of the popular ones would be really neat, but it's a really rough position to be in when most recurring characters are basically in the game already, and the other is most commonly an elderly woman. Could always get a one-shot, Sheik does exist, and I don't think they'd want to ignore the Wilds era since it was huge, but those characters don't normally pull the big numbers lol

This is how Kohga wins.

-Avoids the whole 'we can't split the Champions/Sages' issue.
-Very liked in the fanbase.
-Appears in both BotW and TotK along with AoC.
-Could use the TotK tech and thus tap into those abilities if they don't want to give him to Link.
-Would be fun as hell to play.

For the bananas, give us Master Kohga!

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

This is how Kohga wins.

-Avoids the whole 'we can't split the Champions/Sages' issue.
-Very liked in the fanbase.
-Appears in both BotW and TotK along with AoC.
-Could use the TotK tech and thus tap into those abilities if they don't want to give him to Link.
-Would be fun as hell to play.

For the bananas, give us Master Kohga!

-Will kill us all.....to death.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Impa gets into Smash, but now as an odd transformation character that can change from young to old with former having quicker speed and the latter with stronger damage (thanks to hitting people with a cane).

Can I repost this for the "Really Bad Super Smash Bros. suggestions" thread? It's kinda silly in a good way, but very impractical.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Can I repost this for the "Really Bad Super Smash Bros. suggestions" thread? It's kinda silly in a good way, but very impractical.

Yes, but only if you add that elderly Impa will have at least one stereotypical old woman activity as a taunt (my vote is for knitting).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yes, but only if you add that elderly Impa will have at least one stereotypical old woman activity as a taunt (my vote is for knitting).

My vote is playing bingo.

 

[SPEN18]

To be honest it kinda feels like there's 15-20 or so characters who are reasonably close in popularity that you could easily see make top 10 in any one given poll.

 

[NintenRob]

I do think Skull Kid has a bit more going for him to shake off some of that one off rust. Like he did get a Mii Costume in Ultimate on top of the stand alone Majora's Mask headgear. And he was the focus of a cadence of Hyrule campaign. Zelda does love to call back to Majora's Mask which Skull Kid feels very tied to.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This is how Kohga wins.

-Avoids the whole 'we can't split the Champions/Sages' issue.
-Very liked in the fanbase.
-Appears in both BotW and TotK along with AoC.
-Could use the TotK tech and thus tap into those abilities if they don't want to give him to Link.
-Would be fun as hell to play.

For the bananas, give us Master Kohga!

It also gives a good excuse to have his banger of a theme

EDIT: Also, the idea of unironically talking about "tantrum cancels" for a Smash character is inherently funny in and of itself

 

[RileyXY1]

I feel like he probably wouldn't have. Without his performance on the Ballot, we probably wouldn't have even gotten the K. Rool Mii Costume frankly.

His last appearance had been a Mario spinoff from like 7-10 years prior that didn't even release in all regions, and his last DK game appearance I think was as an unlockable in Barrel Blast which is typically not looked upon kindly. (For reference this is also the last game Lanky was in if that tells you anything lmao)

I think the same way. I think Ridley is a different story due to him being much more prominent in recent games. His latest appearance at the time of Ultimate's release was in Samus Returns in 2017, which added him in as the secret final boss despite him being completely absent from the original Metroid 2, and we even got to see a "missing link" between his appearance in the Prime trilogy as the cybernetic Meta Ridley and his fully organic appearance in Super Metroid.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Impa gets into Smash, but now as an odd transformation character that can change from young to old with former having quicker speed and the latter with stronger damage (thanks to hitting people with a cane).

Close enough. Welcome back, Zeku Streetfighter.

I think the same way. I think Ridley is a different story due to him being much more prominent in recent games. His latest appearance at the time of Ultimate's release was in Samus Returns in 2017, which added him in as the secret final boss despite him being completely absent from the original Metroid 2, and we even got to see a "missing link" between his appearance in the Prime trilogy as the cybernetic Meta Ridley and his fully organic appearance in Super Metroid.

Okay, now talk about what he's been up to in Dread.