Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I will say I enjoyed Wii Sports not cause it was a pack-in title, but because it was legit fun to play. It's why I picked up Wii Sports Resort in the first place.

The tie-in helps, but it's not the only reason why people would enjoy it. The Joycons aren't really the same impact, however, so that doesn't help. And it did release fairly late into the Switch, so it not being a tie-in later makes a bit of sense. Sports sells fairly well on its own, anyway, so it doesn't need to be a tie-in.

Now, the grindy nature of the costumes is definitely a big hit to its popularity. Grinds can be okay, if done right.

1-2 Switch was a decent enough seller, but its sequel actually sold fairly well. People liked it, just not the price for the original(which was way too damn high). And yeah, the various live service and other stuff absolutely hurt a lot of the games, too true.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Sportsmates have so many good costume options that they probably won't use since the ones in marketing use just the most basic options.
Look at all these unique weirdos you can play as. Please, Nintendo, just let me play as the squirrel

View attachment 400718

Why is one of them Sans?

 

[Master_Scorpion]

So, I'm going to ask this question once now, and once after the Switch 2 direct. We're at the end of the Switch's lifespan. It had a great run. There were a ton of wonderful games and a ton of fantastic revivals of older franchises.

Part of Smash's appeal is adding new franchises to expand the crossover. So I have to ask.

What do you think are the top five most likely new Nintendo franchises to get a character in the next Smash Bros, and why?

Ring Fit Adventure just from a sales perspective
Astral Chain for the unique moveset and being a switch rep so it’s modern
Golden Sun because Isaac is so popular
Labo for the surprising factor
Excitebike since it is an iconic retro series and constantly being on the bike also provides a unique moveset

 

[BrawlX10]

3) Astral Chain - A series that I'm somewhat dubious on but in fairness, is another one of the only new Switch-era Nintendo series left worth humoring for a spot. I can see AC getting shafted into an AT role much like other more fringe series before it such as Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment and Dillon's Rolling Western. But on the other hand, if the timing is right and Sakurai saw potential in this concept... which he very well could have, the unique material speaks for itself, then why not? I can see this being sort of a Xenoblade situation, taking a chance on a promising standout title with a strong identity to bring to the game. Not essential IMO, but it's possible - solid 50/50 here.

Yeah, i don't think not begin from a super popular and super succeful IP is a complete kill for a characters chances. Shulk and Xenoblade were definitely on the niche side and moderately succeful when Shulk was added to Smash 4.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

This question is more geared towards gameplay but you guys think the divide of causal and competitive sides and Smash Bros, especially Ultimate, trying to appeal to both equal opposite camps is detrimental to Smash's gameplay? Holding it back from reaching its potential if it stuck to one side. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Was Ultimate was step-back in terms of gameplay, repeating the same-tired of old formula that needs a complete overhaul?

There was this video I came across that was critiquing Ultimate from a gameplay standpoint saying by streamlining Smash's quirks and tech to appeals to casuals + buffer neutered movement and skill which is important factor for Smash's unique platforming aspect lowering skill floors and making Ult and Smash Bros as whole a more frustrating and shallow experience.

If Smash 6 came around and if there was a revamp on gameplay philosophy, Should the series solely stick to appealing to casual as a full-on party game like Brawlhalla or MP or go strict into competitive fighter like Melee 2 or even further like traditional fighters?

 

[ninjahmos]

I know I'll sound like a party pooper and rhetorical, but make sure to control expectation and set them low if possible. Just speaking out as a sense of reason. At least, we get to have a taste of what the Switch 2 can do in 3 days.

I usually try to keep my expectations as low as possible, and Nintendo Directs are no exception. Still, I'd love to see what the Switch 2 is capable of.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Nintendo Switch Sports released the same month Sakurai started development on his new game, and 6 months after his initial project plan. If Sakurai’s game is Smash then the timing is kind of perfect.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nobody 1-2 Switched

Oddly, given the sales numbers, it looks like everybody 1-2 Switched, but nobody Everybody 1-2 Switched. I'd say the first game sold so well because it was a tie in game...but for some reason it isn't. The only reason I can guess is that the Switch was popular, but had no games at launch.

Nintendo Labo only works with very specific models so if you have an OLED or Lite, well tough luck, idiot. And every Labo game is a glorified tech demo which, while filled with charm and soul, is still incredibly barebones in actual gameplay

I was about to question why, but I guess this actually makes sense. Nintendo Switch OLED is bigger, and thus doesn't fit into the Nintendo LABO kits, and didn't come out until later, so they couldn't have even accounted for it. By the time it did come out Nintendo LABO was dead, so there was no point.

And then the Nintendo Switch Lite had built in Joy-Cons instead of the detectable ones the kit was designed around, so it was a non-starter. Kind of a shame really.

 

[Perkilator]

This question is more geared towards gameplay but you guys think the divide of causal and competitive sides and Smash Bros, especially Ultimate, trying to appeal to both equal opposite camps is detrimental to Smash's gameplay? Holding it back from reaching its potential if it stuck to one side. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Was Ultimate was step-back in terms of gameplay, repeating the same-tired of old formula that needs a complete overhaul?

There was this video I came across that was critiquing Ultimate from a gameplay standpoint saying by streamlining Smash's quirks and tech to appeals to casuals + buffer neutered movement and skill which is important factor for Smash's unique platforming aspect lowering skill floors and making Ult and Smash Bros as whole a more frustrating and shallow experience.

If Smash 6 came around and if there was a revamp on gameplay philosophy, Should the series solely stick to appealing to casual as a full-on party game like Brawlhalla or MP or go strict into competitive fighter like Melee 2 or even further like traditional fighters?

I think it should go back to appealing more to casual fans. I think the way Final Smashes work in Ultimate is the biggest detriment of trying to appeal to everyone.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

I know I'll sound like a party pooper and rhetorical, but make sure to control expectation and set them low if possible. Just speaking out as a sense of reason. At least, we get to have a taste of what the Switch 2 can do in 3 days.

Assuming you mean in relation to Smash, I'm halfway ready for it to jump the shark atp.

For Switch 2 in general I'm feeling like we're cooking with gas - with first-party in a pretty positive place and Sony and Microsoft potentially both playing ball. Plus, the success of Switch will be very motivating for third-party devs in general to have a presence on Switch 2 and do it early.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This question is more geared towards gameplay but you guys think the divide of causal and competitive sides and Smash Bros, especially Ultimate, trying to appeal to both equal opposite camps is detrimental to Smash's gameplay? Holding it back from reaching its potential if it stuck to one side. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Was Ultimate was step-back in terms of gameplay, repeating the same-tired of old formula that needs a complete overhaul?

There was this video I came across that was critiquing Ultimate from a gameplay standpoint saying by streamlining Smash's quirks and tech to appeals to casuals + buffer neutered movement and skill which is important factor for Smash's unique platforming aspect lowering skill floors and making Ult and Smash Bros as whole a more frustrating and shallow experience.

If Smash 6 came around and if there was a revamp on gameplay philosophy, Should the series solely stick to appealing to casual as a full-on party game like Brawlhalla or MP or go strict into competitive fighter like Melee 2 or even further like traditional fighters?

It should aim towards casual play first and foremost but do so in a way that feels smooth and responsive enough that hardcore players could still find fun out of it even if it isn't a barely workable mess filled with glitches and exploits held together by duct tape and dreams like Melee was a game specifically designed to cater to them like Melee unintentionally was.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

It should aim towards casual play first and foremost but do so in a way that feels smooth and responsive enough that hardcore players could still find fun out of it even if it isn't a barely workable mess filled with glitches and exploits held together by duct tape and dreams like Melee was a game specifically designed to cater to them like Melee unintentionally was.

Do you think Ultimate or even Smash in general has actually achieved this?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do you think Ultimate or even Smash in general has actually achieved this?

I would argue it never really did.

Both Smash 64 and Melee unintentionally became highly technical games due to a lack of polish
Brawl went too far in the opposite direction to the point where even casuals hated some of the allegedly anti-competitive features like random tripping
Smash 4 was held back by the 3DS so it couldn't really be much more than "Brawl but slightly faster and you don't trip"
Ultimate... is a step in the right direction, speed feels great and being able to do any attack out of a dash is a great idea even if the execution is clunky but also its buffer sucks ass

In terms of moveset design, however, it's actually nailed things due to having a bit of everything, from the simple pick-up-and-play that anyone can understand to carpal tunnel simulators and everything in between. There's a character for any skill level.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Just some food for thought. What if Sakurai isn’t working on the next smash directly and let’s say working on Kid Icarus uprising sequel instead but he made a team to work on smash on the side where he is in not as a work heavy position in the development of smash and we get both an announcement of a Kid Icarus game and a smash game on the same direct? Is that even a possibility? Kind of feels like the best of both worlds. We still get smash soon enough while we get a new game from Sakurai as well.

 

[Louie G.]

Assuming you mean in relation to Smash, I'm halfway ready for it to jump the shark atp.

If I may ask / open this can of worms, what would Smash jumping the shark look like to you?

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Just some food for thought. What if Sakurai isn’t working on the next smash directly and let’s say working on Kid Icarus uprising sequel instead but he made a team to work on smash on the side where he is in not as a work heavy position in the development of smash and we get both an announcement of a Kid Icarus game and a smash game on the same direct? Is that even a possibility? Kind of feels like the best of both worlds. We still get smash soon enough while we get a new game from Sakurai as well.

There’s still part of me that thinks Sakurai has been making a Pac-Man game this whole time.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

If I may ask / open this can of worms, what would Smash jumping the shark look like to you?

Oh jeez. I guess to keep it simple, to me, it'll be once it becomes impossible to hold onto the childish notion that the whole ordeal is anything other than an elaborate marketing gimmick. Or, of course, if it's just not fun to play - but that side of it I don't feel as worried about.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I love how Switch Sports was such a fumble in everyone's minds that nobody is entertaining the idea of Sportsmates even though years ago people were practically begging for the miis to get a Sports Resort inspired moveset.

Maybe if 99% of the cosmetic options in the mii successor game weren't locked by grinding out the online multiplayer in gosh darn "wii sports 3" people would see them as an easy slam dunk. alas, someone on the switch sports team was all in on live service elements; not even for profit reasons, they just thought "grind everything out" is how games should be played, i guess...

The worst part of the cosmetic system is the fact that all the cosmetics you earned are tied to your profile, rather than to the console overall. So, if you want to play some good old-fashioned local multiplayer, only you can use your unlocked cosmetics, not your friends or family members. NSS really feels like it exists only for online multiplayer, not for local, even though it does have local.
And, for the record, I did grind all 52 item sets on my profile. I really wanted the squirrel to have all the outfits…

 

[ninjahmos]

I may or may not have said this before, but I'm hoping the next game will have more variety with Final Smashes. And bring back transformations.

 

[BrawlX10]

Tbh, i wouldn't be surprised if Sportsmates got in....but personally i would rather have other character over them.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I may or may not have said this before, but I'm hoping the next game will have more variety with Final Smashes. And bring back transformations.

Same, tho honestly I like some of the cinematic ones like Joker’s and Sephiroth’s to name a few but it be nice to have a better balance and not most of them be a cutscene. Some transformation final smashes be cool to see more of.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

I think that Mario guy.

Who even cares about him?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

Tak.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Tak.

Honestly i dont see it ever happening but i think Tak would be a neat inclusion but for the novelty of it.

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

Sly cooper.

 

[Kirbeh]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

Yes.

Actual answer: it's too broad a question. Most characters are unlikely. You could go with something more along the lines of franchises you don't expect Smash to ever go for like Manhunt or something. There's not much to be said about those cases though.

This question is more geared towards gameplay but you guys think the divide of causal and competitive sides and Smash Bros, especially Ultimate, trying to appeal to both equal opposite camps is detrimental to Smash's gameplay? Holding it back from reaching its potential if it stuck to one side. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Was Ultimate was step-back in terms of gameplay, repeating the same-tired of old formula that needs a complete overhaul?

There was this video I came across that was critiquing Ultimate from a gameplay standpoint saying by streamlining Smash's quirks and tech to appeals to casuals + buffer neutered movement and skill which is important factor for Smash's unique platforming aspect lowering skill floors and making Ult and Smash Bros as whole a more frustrating and shallow experience.

If Smash 6 came around and if there was a revamp on gameplay philosophy, Should the series solely stick to appealing to casual as a full-on party game like Brawlhalla or MP or go strict into competitive fighter like Melee 2 or even further like traditional fighters?

I'm going to give the copout (but correct) answer of there being an ideal balance somewhere in the middle. However, I do think it's for the best that it leans more towards the casual side of things. One, because a big part (honestly most) of Smash's appeal is as a goofy multiplayer party game, and second, because every "competitive" bone Sakurai has ever thrown has always been a half-measure or completely misunderstood what the competitive side of the player base actually wants.

I did watch the video, and I have to say that I agree with most points and the general sentiment. Ultimate for all the great things it managed to achieve, just doesn't feel as good to play imo.

 

[Laniv]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

Tingle, Mr. Resetti, Deoxys...

Pig Ganon, Krystal, Lyn, Chibi-Robo, Vaati...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Chibi-Robo

I mean I don't wanna say anything definite, but Chibi-Robo is also a victim of the 2015 3DS curse, so you never know lmao

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

People are like “They really need to have less characters in the next Smash game” and then they show you this.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

Sokoban (the actual titular warehouse keeper) has been my favorite never-ever idea for a while. A ton of games, deeply influential / important, and you could make an interesting moveset.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People are like “They really need to have less characters in the next Smash game” and then they show you this.

I don't think people want a 24 character roster that's just the Original 12, Marth, Villager, Olimar, Inkling, Sonic, 3 green shooter dudes, Dante, and a Robloxian.

I also don't think people think a 24 character roster that's just the Original 12, Marth, Villager, Olimar, Inkling, Sonic, 3 green shooter dudes, Dante, and a Robloxian is a particularly likely outcome.

 

[dream1ng]

This question is more geared towards gameplay but you guys think the divide of causal and competitive sides and Smash Bros, especially Ultimate, trying to appeal to both equal opposite camps is detrimental to Smash's gameplay? Holding it back from reaching its potential if it stuck to one side. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Was Ultimate was step-back in terms of gameplay, repeating the same-tired of old formula that needs a complete overhaul?

There was this video I came across that was critiquing Ultimate from a gameplay standpoint saying by streamlining Smash's quirks and tech to appeals to casuals + buffer neutered movement and skill which is important factor for Smash's unique platforming aspect lowering skill floors and making Ult and Smash Bros as whole a more frustrating and shallow experience.

If Smash 6 came around and if there was a revamp on gameplay philosophy, Should the series solely stick to appealing to casual as a full-on party game like Brawlhalla or MP or go strict into competitive fighter like Melee 2 or even further like traditional fighters?

I think it can achieve more from a competitive perspective, adding more technical elements and high-skill level tech, but that's not what Smash tries to be.

I don't see the downside in adding these competitive-oriented elements as I don't think it hinders the casual experience; most casuals don't even know they're there. It's not like you'd have to change basic inputs to something less accessible than Smash's basic control scheme. I understand speeding the gameplay up makes it slightly more difficult to follow, but it's not like Melee struggled with a casual audience - it was the Gamecube's best selling game.

So I disagree with Sakurai on his philosophy on appealing to the competitive at the expense of the casual. I think Smash itself is evidence to the contrary. But to his credit, I do think the Smash games have progressively factored in competitive play more and more post-Brawl, and Ultimate is a pretty good balance knowing the limits of how much they'll cater to the competitive crowd.

Smash shouldn't become some casual fest either. Not only is character balance important past the highest levels of play, but you don't have to be some pro Smash player to enjoy playing serious matches without gimmicks. Lots of people enjoy that, hence them making FD and Battlefield versions of every stage, as well as a hazard toggle. I have no doubt their data reflected how often those neutral stages were chosen, and it definitely exceeded that of just the pro Smash scene. I'm no competitive Smasher, but I nevertheless found things like tripping and how intrusive 4's stage bosses were just... not fun.

So I think Ultimate is a pretty good balance. I don't think there's as much of a downside embracing the competitive even more so long as you don't change Smash's fundamentally accessible formula, but considering what Sakurai thinks of all that, the current balance between the two is pretty good.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

People are like “They really need to have less characters in the next Smash game” and then they show you this. View attachment 400722

You know it's impartial and reliable because it comes from a user called DemifiendEnjoyer and yet there is no Demi-Fiend to be seen

 

[RileyXY1]

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely? No fourth parties.

GTA rep - Too realistic, too violent, and music licensing issues
Fallout rep - Music licensing issues
Doom Slayer - Outclassed by another character from the same company
Call of Duty rep - Too realistic, too boring
Sylux - Timing issues (might get in as DLC however)
Euden - Dragalia Lost shut down

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I don't think people want a 24 character roster that's just the Original 12, Marth, Villager, Olimar, Inkling, Sonic, 3 green shooter dudes, Dante, and a Robloxian.

I also don't think people think a 24 character roster that's just the Original 12, Marth, Villager, Olimar, Inkling, Sonic, 3 green shooter dudes, Dante, and a Robloxian is a particularly likely outcome.

I swear I have seen actual genuine rosters that were very similar to this,

 

[DarthEnderX]

Disagreeing with Nintendo again, I see.

When they're wrong.

Corporations aren't always right.

I don't know why you think Nintendo wouldn't already be aware that DLC for an evergreen game still selling millions of units five years after release with a nearly 1:2 attach rate would still sell.

How would they be aware of the results of something they'd never tried before?

First off, this isn't even an exception, because Mario Kart is getting a new entry.

This time. Last time, it didn't. Last time is the exception.

Second, that's a reductionist rendition of the counterpoint, because people explain why these exceptions remain exceptions while you ignore the reasoning, looking only at the game existing.

Because the circumstances of it happening don't change the fact that it happened. And just because those circumstances were present the first time, doesn't mean they are required for it to happen again. Especially when knowledge and motivations have changed since then.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

You know it's impartial and reliable because it comes from a user called DemifiendEnjoyer and yet there is no Demi-Fiend to be seen

Honestly Demifiend isn’t on my actual roster for if I made Smash 6. He’d probably either be DLC or Jack Frost would be DLC.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fallout rep - Music licensing issues

I feel like there are ways around this one. Old Fallout doesn't use licensed music, though it's all atmospheric. I'm also sure that new Fallout doesn't only use licensed music, but I'd have to deep dive to figure out what's what.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What do you think are the top five most likely new Nintendo franchises to get a character in the next Smash Bros, and why?

I don't think any Nintendo franchise that doesn't already have a Fighter is particularly likely.

I'm sure Nintendo will add at least one, but individually, they're all longshot.

I think the most likely is Ring Fit Adventure.

Do we not count that as part of the Wii Fit franchise?

what would Smash jumping the shark look like to you?

4th Party.

I may or may not have said this before, but I'm hoping the next game will have more variety with Final Smashes. And bring back transformations.

I'm hoping they don't bring back transformations.

So just for fun, What are some characters you think are particularly unlikely?

Uh...Kuros?

 

[BackseatSakurai]

How are we feeling about Bomberman?

He's an assist trophy and a Mii costume and I feel like he's pretty inoffensive / pleasing to everyone - feels like a major oversight to not have him in, but feel like he's rarely brought up actively. I personally would say he's top 5 / top 10 most likely third-party newcomers.