Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Was this before the interview where they admitted to having talked about Doom Slayer for Smash and contacted Nintendo about it but didn't get a response yet at that time? Because pretty much everybody took that as a major blow to his chances.

No, I actually said this after his Mii costume was revealed

Yes this was before, but I don’t think they “didn’t get a response” I think they said their discussions didn’t go anywhere serious.

 

[superprincess]

View attachment 387763

Jesus Christ it’s been that long

The gap between now and Mario Kart 8 is bigger than the gap between Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart DS. I almost wanna talk to my therapist about this.

Nintendo knows what the people want. They want to see "[big number] fighters!" so they can pog at the character select screen.
We - the ones who care about Smash enough to sign up for a forum about it - are not "the people."

Be there cuts or no cuts, the roster size will likely not be that different. Maybe a bit higher or lower in the case of cuts, but that's it, really.

I don't think Nintendo would just give up and wave a white flag if the next game somehow couldn't make it to ~70 fighters. "Welp, guess we don't have a marketing gimmick now!" They'd find something to sell the game. The general public doesn't even care that much about the number really. It's the Smash fans that would riot.

Oh, I'd love that! When 3D World was re-released I kept hoping they'd add Daisy as a playable character in an update. I thought she could have a calico-themed cat suit.

They played us with that damn calico cat lol. I never considered Daisy a lock but not even Toadette? After Mario Maker 2? No new characters was a let down, I probably would've bought 3DW a second time if it had a new character to play around with.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think Nintendo would just give up and wave a white flag if the next game somehow couldn't make it to ~70 fighters. "Welp, guess we don't have a marketing gimmick now!" They'd find something to sell the game. The general public doesn't even care that much about the number really. It's the Smash fans that would riot.

I think the deal is that we're at a point where the roster can't be the sole selling point, but it's not like that's a big problem from a marketing standpoint.

• Do we have a new gimmick? Easy.
• Do we have cool single player content? Easy.
• Are we doing a soft reboot? Easy.

Heck, if they could/wanted to get it to work, they might be able to get us with it's Smash, but with rollback. Well, the Smash fans anyway.

 

[superprincess]

I think the deal is that we're at a point where the roster can't be the sole selling point, but it's not like that's a big problem from a marketing standpoint.

• Do we have a new gimmick? Easy.
• Do we have cool single player content? Easy.
• Are we doing a soft reboot? Easy.

Heck, if they could/wanted to get it to work, they might be able to get us with it's Smash, but with rollback. Well, the Smash fans anyway.

But the roster was Ultimate's only selling point and it worked. And thus, many people believe we can't move past that. The fanbase certainly can't. Any future game will automatically be competing with Ultimate in the fanbase's mind. Casuals on the other hand? They just want a fun time. I don't think you'd need to justify cuts to them.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

I just want the next game to be a little more generous to the roster as a whole, not simply fawn over a select few whilst practically ignoring everyone else, including newcomers. As balanced as Ultimate has been for the most part, it's rather obvious that some characters were given a lot more love from the developers. Some of their design choices have been admittedly bizarre, and it gets tiresome watching them play blatant favourites after a while.

Just compare lacklustre newcomers to braindead DLC like Pyra/Mythra.

 

[TheQuester]

I think we will probably have to wait until around 2027-28 for the next Smash game (assuming it’s Smash 6). If we count from the end of Ultimate’s development (around October 2021), it will be around a 6-7 year gap. Melee to Brawl was 7 years, and Brawl to Smash 4 was 6 years between content, so 2027-28 seems about right, in my opinion.

I think they’ll try to add some new gameplay mechanics to the core gameplay. Multiversus and Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl 2 have introduced some interesting mechanics to the genre; there’s definitely room for experimentation, perhaps some new modes as well.

I think we’ll also have a large amount of new stages, similar to Brawl or Smash 4’s amount, and some new moves for the returning veterans, as usual. We might get around 10 base game newcomers, less than Smash 4 (15 base, not counting echoes) but more than Ultimate (6 base game, not counting echoes).

This is probably my wildest prediction here, I guess, but I think they’ll try to “one-up” Ultimate’s DLC or at least be as wild as the latter. There are still so many third-party franchises they could add as DLC, and even some first parties like Isaac from Golden Sun or Rhythm Heaven that would be welcome as DLC if they don’t make it into the base game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But the roster was Ultimate's only selling point and it worked. And thus, many people believe we can't move past that. The fanbase certainly can't. Any future game will automatically be competing with Ultimate in the fanbase's mind. Casuals on the other hand? They just want a fun time. I don't think you'd need to justify cuts to them.

If it helps, it has been done once before. Half the marketing for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U was the fact that each version existed. That and Ultimate was also marketed as "Smash on the go", even if that was more of a Switch commercial than a Smash one.

I think it's kind of like how graphics work. Back then Super Smash Bros. for Wii U looked amazing, and it was hard to imagine the next game looking much better, but now we have it and it manages to have even more visual polish.

I just want the next game to be a little more generous to the roster as a whole, not simply fawn over a select few whilst practically ignoring everyone else, including newcomers. As balanced as Ultimate has been for the most part, it's rather obvious that some characters were given a lot more love from the developers. Some of their design choices have been admittedly bizarre, and it gets tiresome watching them play blatant favourites after a while.

I feel like this is more of an issue with having just one character designer. Sakurai is a brilliant man but he can make some weird decisions sometimes. I mean, the man pulled an entire moveset for a peripheral out of his butt but couldn't picture Heihachi having an Up Special? How does that make sense?

I'm sure the answer lies in context we aren't privy to but...yeah.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think it's kind of like how graphics work. Back then Super Smash Bros. for Wii U looked amazing, and it was hard to imagine the next game looking much better, but now we have it and it manages to have even more visual polish.

For what it's worth I've never liked how weirdly washed-out the colors in Ultimate can look at times compared to for Wii U.

 

[Laniv]

Mario Kart 8 is turning 10 years old? Dear God. What's next, you'll say that Smash 4 is turning 10 in the fall?

...Smash 4 does turn 10 in the fall.

...Splatoon was revealed nearly a decade ago.

...Greninja's reveal was a decade ago.

Someone stop this train, I wanna get off.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Mario Kart 8 is turning 10 years old? Dear God. What's next, you'll say that Smash 4 is turning 10 in the fall?

...Smash 4 does turn 10 in the fall.

...Splatoon was revealed nearly a decade ago.

...Greninja's reveal was a decade ago.

Someone stop this train, I wanna get off.

It's been a decade?

Better nerf Greninja.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For what it's worth I've never liked how weirdly washed-out the colors in Ultimate can look at times compared to for Wii U.

I do have a similar sentiment (Bowser's skin looks weird and Pikachu is too pale), but the graphics have a lot more technical skill put into them, and there are quite a number of animations with improvements in terms of appeal. I look back at Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and everything looks a little...flat? I dunno. Win some and lose some I guess.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

It's been a decade?

Better nerf Greninja.

Yes, maybe they should. However, did you know that Pikachu Libre is a girl?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yes, maybe they should. However, did you know that Pikachu Libre is a girl?

You can tell by their heart shaped tail.

For [Joker's] Neutral Special, he wields a gun.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mario Kart 8 is turning 10 years old? Dear God. What's next, you'll say that Smash 4 is turning 10 in the fall?

...Smash 4 does turn 10 in the fall.

...Splatoon was revealed nearly a decade ago.

...Greninja's reveal was a decade ago.

Someone stop this train, I wanna get off.

It's been 6 years since Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. 4 more to go until it's a decade old.

Dies again.

 

[ninjahmos]

Maybe Dante's Neutral Special could be his iconic guns Ebony & Ivory.

 

[CannonStreak]

Maybe Dante's Neutral Special could be his iconic guns Ebony & Ivory.

For his neutral special, he wields TWO guns!

Sorry, but I had to.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

For his neutral special, he wields TWO guns!

Sorry, but I had to.

: "Cheeky."

 

[Guynamednelson]

How does that make sense?

He wants the FG characters to only use moves they use in their home games. Heihachi has nothing that screams "Up-B".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Mario Kart Tour was the last new Mario Kart game. Not for everyone, of course.

And that still ended not that long ago. It does help that it had extra assets that could be given to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's various DLC, though. A big reason I'm glad it existed. It also had some really awesome racer options due to its design.

That said, I'd like a new console one this time, instead of a great port alone.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He wants the FG characters to only use moves they use in their home games. Heihachi has nothing that screams "Up-B".

Is Kazuya's Up Special not made up?

I still feel like you could have come up with something pretty easily. Some kind of electric uppercut or something (probably or something so as to not be confused with Electric Wind God Fist, but you get what I mean).

It's not a big deal or anything, but still.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is Kazuya's Up Special not made up?

I still feel like you could have come up with something pretty easily. Some kind of electric uppercut or something (probably or something so as to not be confused with Electric Wind God Fist, but you get what I mean).

It's not a big deal or anything, but still.

It's a move based upon the cutscenes, so while it's not an official move from his gameplay, it's not really "made up". It's outright based upon something in his game. Moreso than many others, anyway.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Is Kazuya's Up Special not made up?

...actually you're right on that one. The closest move for any Tekken fighter with wings is the one I timestampped

I dunno I guess it was easier to figure out how to give an up-B to someone who can sprout wings

 

[superprincess]

...Mario Kart Tour was the last new Mario Kart game. Not for everyone, of course.

And that still ended not that long ago. It does help that it had extra assets that could be given to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's various DLC, though. A big reason I'm glad it existed. It also had some really awesome racer options due to its design.

That said, I'd like a new console one this time, instead of a great port alone.

I don't count MKT for obvious reasons. Some people do, but I disagree.

And it was still built off 8's assets so

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a move based upon the cutscenes, so while it's not an official move from his gameplay, it's not really "made up". It's outright based upon something in his game. Moreso than many others, anyway.

Now I'm imagining Sakurai combing through footage, finding a clip where Kazuya flies away and everyone shields themselves from the dust kicked up from his takeoff and he's like "There it is! His Up Special!". lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't count MKT for obvious reasons. Some people do, but I disagree.

And it was still built off 8's assets so

It's a new game. Not a port. It doesn't matter what assets helped create it. That's just normal game procedure. Smash works the same way. As do many other games.

It's definitely not the new game people were mainly interested in, but that doesn't change the facts.

I get what you mean that we haven't had a normal console/handheld new game in a long time. And I agree it's annoying. Having the newest one be a Gacha Game isn't really the most exciting way to continue the franchise(at least for some).

Now I'm imagining Sakurai combing through footage, finding a clip where Kazuya flies away and everyone shields themselves from the dust kicked up from his takeoff and he's like "There it is! His Up Special!". lol

Considering the Devil Gene is what gave Sakurai inspiration for the Specials in general... that's probably not that off, lol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the subject of rejected DLC concepts. I wanna know what the Rex & Pyra idea was. Like, was he just simplifying things when he said they would be like the Ice Climbers? Were there gonna be 2 Aegis Swords? Was Rex gonna fight with the Junk Sword?

The more you think about it the wilder it gets. Pyra Climbers. That sounds terrifying.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Dante ever gets revealed, they could give him a new remix of Devils Never Cry that combines elements of the original version and the HR/HM (DMC5) version.

It could sound something like this…

 

[Gorgonzales]

I don't count MKT for obvious reasons. Some people do, but I disagree.

yeah? well... does 8 have THIS? checkmate!!

in all seriousness, Tour is its own thing and Nintendo considers it a main entry in the series. So there you go.

Also Poochy.

 

[superprincess]

yeah? well... does 8 have THIS? checkmate!!

View attachment 387782

in all seriousness, Tour is its own thing and Nintendo considers it a main entry in the series. So there you go.

Also Poochy.

Okay? Nintendo counts it but the fact of the matter is nobody actually cares. Same deal as Mario Run, they "count it" as a main Mario game but slip up and forget sometimes now that the game's old and they don't have to promote it. Like during Wonder's press release they would say stuff like "This is the first mainline 2D Mario in 10 years" and "This is Daisy's first time being playable in a game like this", completely disregarding Run. MKT is kind of the same deal, they "counted it" while it was active but will probably backtrack on that once the cool new thing is out.

Also, I choose not to count it as "Mario Kart 9" because it'll shut down someday and be unplayable. So if the next game is Mario Kart 10, there'll be a gap in the series when the servers for MKT eventually finally die.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Dante ever gets revealed, they could give him a new remix of Devils Never Cry that combines elements of the original version and the HR/HM (DMC5) version.

It could sound something like this…

Wow I actually liked this quite a bit. I wonder if that means Guilty Gear Strive has acclimated my musical tastes to some of the heavier stuff.

Can probably blame Extras for that. lol

 

[Ivander]

Okay? Nintendo counts it but the fact of the matter is nobody actually cares. Same deal as Mario Run, they "count it" as a main Mario game but slip up and forget sometimes now that the game's old and they don't have to promote it. Like during Wonder's press release they would say stuff like "This is the first mainline 2D Mario in 10 years" and "This is Daisy's first time being playable in a game like this", completely disregarding Run. MKT is kind of the same deal, they "counted it" while it was active but will probably backtrack on that once the cool new thing is out.

Also, I choose not to count it as "Mario Kart 9" because it'll shut down someday and be unplayable. So if the next game is Mario Kart 10, there'll be a gap in the series when the servers for MKT eventually finally die.

You know, a person who does not care does not try to refute what others say about something. If they say they don't care, but refute what another person/company/whatnot says about something, like whether a game is a mainline game or not, they obviously care to the point of being willing to refute what a person or company says about that something and it breaks the "nobody actually cares" illusion.

 

[kirbstr]

I think we will probably have to wait until around 2027-28 for the next Smash game (assuming it’s Smash 6). If we count from the end of Ultimate’s development (around October 2021), it will be around a 6-7 year gap. Melee to Brawl was 7 years, and Brawl to Smash 4 was 6 years between content, so 2027-28 seems about right, in my opinion.

It will be a lot sooner than that If Sakurai's rumored new project that he started working on sometime mid 2023 is Smash 6.

Brawl's design doc was finalized in october 2005 and development lasted until late 2007. Smash 4's design doc was started late 2011 and finalized mid 2012, development lasted until mid 2014. Ultimate's planning began December 2015, development started immediately after the launch of Bayonetta early 2016, and lasted until late 2018

Smash games generally take around 3-6 months to plan, 2-3 years to develop. If planning started sometime early 2023, the game will probably release late 2025 or early 2026. This would line up with a lot of the rumors about Nintendo's new console they have been sitting on and waiting to reveal. I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 6 ends up being a first year game for it to draw sales.

 

[TheQuester]

Damn, i was 16 when Smash 3DS came out, it does feel longer than 10 years ago to me, tbh.

On the topic of Smash 6, like i said previously, if the Fighter Pass model returns we could get some wild stuff like:
2B (Nier Automata), Crash Bandicoot, Isaac (Golden Sun), Jill (Resident Evil) and Bill Rizer (Contra)...or maybe some crazy 3rd party or Nintendo character we don't expect.
....definitely looking foward to Smash 6's Fighter Pass era lol.

 

[ninjahmos]

Re: Character Creator Exclusive Characters in Soul Calibur

Wasn't Devil Jin a Character Creator exclusive in Soul Calibur V (the worst game in the series apparently)? At least his moveset and theme music?

 

[Ivander]

Re: Character Creator Exclusive Characters in Soul Calibur

Wasn't Devil Jin a Character Creator exclusive in Soul Calibur V (the worst one apparently)? At least his moveset and theme music?

Yeah, SCV had a Devil Jin moveset exclusive for created characters. And no, it wasn't the worst moveset in Soulcalibur 5. The problem is regarding Created Characters in that they have a height meter that also affects their hitboxes and range, so Created characters were simply banned.
Because Devil Jin was never attached to a pre-existing Bonus character, the moveset never saw use in competitive play, much like how Mii Fighters in Smash 4 were banned from competitive use for the most part because of the Mii Fighters having 3 different heights they could have compared to Ultimate only having the one height.

 

[ninjahmos]

Yeah, SCV had a Devil Jin moveset exclusive for created characters. And no, it wasn't the worst moveset in Soulcalibur 5. The problem is regarding Created Characters in that they have a height meter that also affects their hitboxes and range, so Created characters were simply banned.
Because Devil Jin was never attached to a pre-existing Bonus character, the moveset never saw use in competitive play, much like how Mii Fighters in Smash 4 were banned from competitive use for the most part because of the Mii Fighters having 3 different heights they could have compared to Ultimate only having the one height.

I meant the game itself, not the moveset.

 

[Ivander]

I meant the game itself, not the moveset.

The biggest issues people have with Soulcalibur V is the Street Fighter 3 attempt at a new cast and the lack of content. The directors wanted to call it Soul Edge 2 as kinda a new beginning similar to how the original Soul Edge was the beginning for Soul Calibur, but Soulcalibur was chosen for the marque value. The lack of content was because they were not given enough staff from Namco and they were not given any extra time to get in some extra things they wanted.

• The directors wanted to give every character their story, but lack of staff helping and time ultimately lead them to doing only Patroklos and Pyrrha.
• The directors wanted to delay the game to at least March/April, 2 months from the January release, in the hopes they could get in 2 more characters for Soulcalibur 5, being Bangoo and Cassandra, and potentially some extra content. Namco did not give them any extra time and kept it to the January release.
• They were hoping to do DLC characters besides Dampierre, but once again, Namco said no and restricted them to content like Created Character content and extra Songs to choose from when battling.

Namco was doing so little to help with Soulcalibur V that it's actually amazing that the SCV team, being competitive players themselves, were actually able to make probably the most fun and most balanced Soulcalibur game since Soulcalibur II. Soulcalibur III had a glitch called Variable Cancelling that gave most of the characters a 100 to death combo making the game a total competitive nightmare and....oooo boy, Soulcalibur IV. Not only the slowest game to appeal to the casuals, but imagine if Super Smash Bros Brawl had an extra mechanic to the tripping system where if you tripped, the opponent could press the B button from anywhere on the map to get an instant unskippable kill on you.
That's what the armor breaking and critical finish system was in Soulcalibur IV. While the armor system was designed to punish players from guarding too much, armor pieces could literally break randomly even if the armor was at green health which meant if your opponent ended up getting a lucky break and quickly pressed the Critical Finish button, it was a free Round Win. That's not even counting the muddied Created Character system that had STATS attached to the pieces that originally couldn't be turned off Online, meaning when you were playing Online, you were playing against people who stacked up on Creator parts and had a ton of HP and whatnot.

I will defend Soulcalibur V for having genuinely good gameplay, because it felt so much more satisfying to play compared to Soulcalibur IV. Soulcalibur 3 was fun, but the gameplay certainly had it's issues and felt really cheap at times, but the many modes it had were good fun, as well as the multi-branch Story mode that if you followed successfully could lead you to a hidden boss.
But I can say with absolute confidence that if a game got me to play through all of the content twice(Once on my own and the 2nd time to help my Dad's account clear the trophies for it as it was accidentally played on his account and he was clearing out trophies on his PS3 list), that it did something right with it's main gameplay. It was the game that made me return back to Nightmare after originally having him as my main in Soulcalibur II before switching to Raphael in SC3 and 4. Nightmare was so much fun to play in Soulcalibur V.
Had Namco actually gave the directors effort in helping them, I'd argue that Soulcalibur V could've had the potential to be the next Street Fighter 3, a game that was panned at first, but eventually became praised for what it did do right. Soulcalibur V's gameplay was legitimately fun to play, but the biggest issue it had was the lack of modes to do things and relying too much on an online battling system that still had issues' like Soulcalibur IV's online. Soulcalibur V had so much against it that it's amazing we even got a Soulcalibur VI, let alone a director who managed to convince Namco to actually put effort in it, after how much Namco sabotaged SCV.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They'd be risking the backlash.

...whatever you say, chief.

Abobo.

Star of the crossover game that puts Smash to shame!

I personally view Mii outfits for characters I would've wanted as equal parts consolation and bandage-ripping. If they're not coming I'd rather know sooner than later such that I'm not burned endlessly, and if I can do that with a pretty cool costume for fighters I actually enjoy playing as, all the better.

Am I weird that I’m a lot more familiar with Double Dragon than I am River City?

Not if you live in NA, no. Double Dragon was a bigger deal in NA than Kunio-kun. The opposite is true in Japan.

River City Ransom is pretty much the only game that came out here as "River City". The rest went by names like:
Renegade
Super Dodge Ball
Nintendo World Cup
Crash 'N' the Boys: Street Challenge

If fans thought a character had a good chance to the point that they felt shoe-ins, only to realize that they're not going to get in, then they would be upset.

If fans thought a character was a shoe-in just because they got a song, it's their fault for having silly expectations.

Also, I choose not to count it as "Mario Kart 9" because it'll shut down someday and be unplayable. So if the next game is Mario Kart 10, there'll be a gap in the series when the servers for MKT eventually finally die.

But the tracks will remain. As part of MK8D...

The biggest issues people have with Soulcalibur V is the Street Fighter 3 attempt at a new cast

Something nobody ever likes, but fighting games keep doing anyway...

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I just want the next game to be a little more generous to the roster as a whole, not simply fawn over a select few whilst practically ignoring everyone else, including newcomers. As balanced as Ultimate has been for the most part, it's rather obvious that some characters were given a lot more love from the developers. Some of their design choices have been admittedly bizarre, and it gets tiresome watching them play blatant favourites after a while.

I kinda hate this kind of stuff, lol. I'm just happy my character is in, I don't care about them being top tier.
Ridley's moveset is cool and original. He's difficult to play and Skewer is almost impossible to land in a real match but it's more a move designed for free-for-alls. Aside from that, you just have learn how to use his kit. If you like Ridley so much you can afford to put in some effort.
Not like he couldn't use a couple of buffs, but that's a different matter.
As a side note, he doesn't have less jumps than Banjo, they both have three. And Banjo and Kazooie can also fly, you know...

Characters need to have limitations. Some of the FP2 characters having busted "ahah moveset goes brrr" designs is the problem, not the solution.
And speaking of Banjo, it's always the same whining with him too, "his moveset has no cohesion", "they just slapped some references on all moves", "he's boring and barely functional" blah blah blah when he works perfectly fine and I'm out there taking stocks and discovering new stuff since he launched.
These characters are developed by professionals who have no agenda, some things slip through the cracks but everyone is functional, just accept that your favorite is a more technical character and needs you to put in some more work than average in order to be competitive. It's okay to ask for buffs but man this kind of whining from supposed fans for characters that are perfectly fine is annoying.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I kinda hate this kind of stuff, lol. I'm just happy my character is in, I don't care about them being top tier.

I don't care about them being top tier(I main Mac ffs). But I do care about them feeling terrible to play as. Like Hero.