Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

But every fanbase gets upset with deconfirmations.

What's the point of this?

They get disappointed, not upset.

You are way overinflating the importance and size of the Double Dragon fanbase. It's a supremely niche series, and for niche series, they're lucky to get anything at all.

But this is Smash here and there's no doubt in my mind that DD fans play Smash and would love to see it get represented.

 

[Gengar84]

Am I weird that I’m a lot more familiar with Double Dragon than I am River City? I grew up playing Double Dragon on the NES and Battletoads & Double Dragon on the SNES. I watched the Double Dragon cartoon and movie as a kid too. I even played the DD fighting game on the SNES based on the cartoon. I’ve never played a River City game and barely knew the series existed early on besides seeing Riki and Kunio’s sprites.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Abobo is the playable DD rep, Bim/Jim are Mii's, heavy weapons Marian is the AT.

Perfect timeline.

 

[Kirbeh]

Am I weird that I’m a lot more familiar with Double Dragon than I am River City? I grew up playing Double Dragon on the NES and Battletoads & Double Dragon on the SNES. I watched the Double Dragon cartoon and movie as a kid too. I even played the DD fighting game on the SNES based on the cartoon. I’ve never played a River City game and barely knew the series existed early on besides seeing Riki and Kunio’s sprites.

Not really, think of it as another growing up in the west vs in the east (and/or JP specifically.) Kinda like Final Fantasy vs Dragon Quest as far as regional presence goes.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Am I weird that I’m a lot more familiar with Double Dragon than I am River City? I grew up playing Double Dragon on the NES and Battletoads & Double Dragon on the SNES. I watched the Double Dragon cartoon and movie as a kid too. I even played the DD fighting game on the SNES based on the cartoon. I’ve never played a River City game and barely knew the series existed early on besides seeing Riki and Kunio’s sprites.

It's not weird at all, as there was a lot of River City/Kunio Kun games that didn't get localized, whereas Double Dragon was always released worldwide. In fact, it was meant to have a worldwide appeal (something River City didn't have) and it was pretty huge back then with the adaptations that you mentioned.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They get disappointed, not upset.

You haven't put much thought into this statement, have you?

 

[Pupp135]

Going to ask a question, since this will help me determine something I am planning to slightly tweak soon.
Between Rosalina and Bowser Jr., which of the two do you genuinely see as being lower-priority at this current point in time?

Until recently, I felt that Rosalina would certainly be the higher priority because of her puppet gimmick and higher priority in For, but I’m feeling less confident now. Although those points are in her favor, Bowser Jr. does have a few things in his favor like the unique cart moveset along with Koopaling alts (he’s also more prominent in his series, but Rosalina is a spinoff regular, and I wouldn’t necessarily say the series prominence is a primary determinant), and he could end up as a higher priortiy character like Falco, Ganondorf, and Toon Link.

Was Captain Falcon's moveset really based off of Dragon King (the Smash 64 prototype)?

I don’t remember the source, but I think it was disconfirmed, and Captain Falcon was primarily based on Samus’s assets.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You haven't put much thought into this statement, have you?

...

Yes. I have. Why ask such a weird question?

 

[Sucumbio]

They get disappointed, not upset.

ICANT

 

[Kirbeh]

To be perfectly fair to Wonder, disappointment is a step down from being upset. Still fairly similar but there is a distinction.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm not saying fans are expecting Billy and Jimmy right now. I don't even think they're being discussed all that much as characters for Smash. What I am saying is that if Kunio and Riki gets in, I'm pretty sure that the Double Dragon theme is going to come with them and that's what's going to boost up more talks about Double Dragon characters in Smash. Knowing how familiar many fans are with a franchise of such significance, if they hear the main theme, it'll no doubt sink in how they could have turned out and what they could bring if they were playable characters.

Terry come with a bunch of SNK music and people weren't particularly disappointed that those franchise didn't got playable characters like Samurai Shodown or Metal slug, so I don't see why it would be different with Double dragon (and no, being "upset" doesn't make it different).

 

[Wonder Smash]

ICANT

If fans thought a character had a good chance to the point that they felt like shoe-ins, only to realize that they're not going to get in, then they would be upset.

If fans want a character in but felt they have very little chance, then they wouldn't be upset since they weren't expecting them anyway but they would still be disappointed because they still wanted them.

 

[Ivander]

Really, disappointment is bound to happen in a crossover. If anything, Maximilian Dood put it best. "It is somebody's dream character. It's just not my dream character. I was glad when I got Terry. I'm glad for those who get their Terry." You don't need to be happy at a character. But there's nothing wrong with being glad that others are happy for a character.

 

[Kirbeh]

If fans thought a character had a good chance to the point that they felt shoe-ins, only to realize that they're not going to get in, then they would be upset.

If fans want a character in but felt they have very little chance, then they wouldn't be upset since they weren't expecting them anyway but they would still be disappointed because they still wanted them.

And that's more or less agreed upon. The initial point people were taking up with the original post was why the case would be different for Double Dragon in particular. Which at this point you've stated wouldn't actually be different hence why people are continuing to press you on your own insistence that the scenario is somehow unique.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

View attachment 387757

I couldn't resist.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'll be disappointed if Master Chief misses out next game. I'll be upset if Wolf gets cut. I'll be both disappointed and upset if the next game doesn't have rollback netcode. I'll neither be disappointed nor upset if the next game doesn't come out until 2026.


am i doing it right?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

...

Yes. I have. Why ask such a weird question?

Disappointed and upset are very common synonyms.

Moreover, fans of all sorts feel negative feelings for deconfirmations. The exact form of negative feeling doesn't really matter. Baby rage mad fans and sad fans have their negative feelings stemming from the same place.

The only difference is how those feelings are shown. It's the same concept. Their were very angry Dante fans. There were very chill Jimmy fans.

To say one fanbase would be upset at a deconfirmation whole another wouldn't be is short sighted and shows a lack of fandom understanding.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Terry come with a bunch of SNK music and people weren't particularly disappointed that those franchise didn't got playable characters like Samurai Shodown or Metal slug, so I don't see why it would be different with Double dragon (and no, being "upset" doesn't make it different).

I never said fans were disappointed that they didn't get playable characters either (and yes, being upset does make it different). However, you do hear people talk about different SNK characters now that Terry got in.

And that's more or less agreed upon. The initial point people were taking up with the original post was why the case would be different for Double Dragon in particular. Which at this point you've stated wouldn't actually be different hence why people are continuing to press you on your own insistence that the scenario is somehow unique.

But I keep explaining why this would be different. I'm talking about if Kunio and Riki gets in first, there's a good chance the Double Dragon theme is going to come with them and that's going to lead to more discussion about Double Dragon characters getting in.

 

[superprincess]

I've never felt like this before but I'm really itching for a new Nintendo console right now. Admittedly I'm not even much of a gamer, I just happen to enjoy Smash Bros and a few other series. But the Switch has gotten so old. And I need something to fuel new Smash speculation. It feels like everyone's circling around the same two topics.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've never felt like this before but I'm really itching for a new Nintendo console right now. Admittedly I'm not even much of a gamer, I just happen to enjoy Smash Bros and a few other series. But the Switch has gotten so old. And I need something to fuel new Smash speculation. It feels like everyone's circling around the same two topics.

We're definitely due. I anticipate a new console announcement before summer is over.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally don’t get mad at characters getting or not getting into crossovers; at the end of the day, it’s a video game, and the roster choices are completely out of my control. Getting mad over it is only going to cause me mental negativity, which is something I want to avoid. For example, I wasn’t really excited for Byleth getting into Smash Bros back in 2019, but there were people who wanted that character, so I congratulated them and then moved on. Then, I tried the character when it came out to see if I liked them or not, and I ended up liking him—he’s one of my secondaries, actually (lol).

My most wanted characters are Ratchet and Clank, Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia, and Seth from Bravely Default 2. They’re extremely unlikely, but it’s not the end of the world if they don’t get into Smash 6. The rest of the newcomers they add could be fun to play, even if I’m not as familiar with most of them.

This is my personal opinion, of course. It’s valid to feel disappointed or sad for a character, specially one that you’ve been waiting for a long time, like Golden Sun fans.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I've never felt like this before but I'm really itching for a new Nintendo console right now. Admittedly I'm not even much of a gamer, I just happen to enjoy Smash Bros and a few other series. But the Switch has gotten so old. And I need something to fuel new Smash speculation. It feels like everyone's circling around the same two topics.

I'm dying for a new console too, especially because none of the first party game releasing this year interested me. At least, I'm using this drought to play a lot of indie games and smaller scale games that were in my backlog for a long time (I'm playing through Tinykin right now). It's true that the console is getting old, but there might be a few games that you've skipped and now is the perfect time to do them before the next console in my opinion.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Disappointed and upset are very common synonyms.

You can be disappointed but not upset. There's an obvious difference.

Moreover, fans of all sorts feel negative feelings for deconfirmations. The exact form of negative feeling doesn't really matter. Baby rage mad fans and sad fans have their negative feelings stemming from the same place.

The only difference is how those feelings are shown. It's the same concept. Their were very angry Dante fans. There were very chill Jimmy fans.

To say one fanbase would be upset at a deconfirmation whole another wouldn't be is short sighted and shows a lack of fandom understanding.

That's grouping every fanbase as the same and that's not the case. Some fanbases react depending on what the character is. I think it's fair to say that nobody was upset that Kazuya wasn't in Smash 4 but it's definitely fair to say they were upset Snake wasn't. Ryu Hayabusa was seen having a big chance of getting in, so it's fair to fans were upset he didn't make it in in any way, whereas almost nobody expected Doom Slayer to make it in after that interview (which he didn't), so there's nothing to be upset about.

 

[Ivander]

We're definitely due.

For a new console. For a new Mario Kart. For a new Hyrule Warriors. For a new Vs. Capcom title. For Metroid Prime 4(Really hoping we get a new announcement soon). For more games on the NSO, especially Sega GBA games. We're definitely due.

Really hoping for a new Nintendo Direct this month or next month.

 

[ninjahmos]

For a new console. For a new Mario Kart. For a new Hyrule Warriors. For a new Vs. Capcom title. For Metroid Prime 4(Really hoping we get a new announcement soon). For more games on the NSO, especially Sega GBA games. We're definitely due.

Really hoping for a new Nintendo Direct this month or next month.

Nintendo VS Capcom when?

 

[SPEN18]

I don't really mind a bit of a lull this year because my Switch backlog is basically insurmountable relative to the amount of time I can commit to it

 

[Momotsuki]

View attachment 387757

Really, disappointment is bound to happen in a crossover. If anything, Maximilian Dood put it best. "It is somebody's dream character. It's just not my dream character. I was glad when I got Terry. I'm glad for those who get their Terry." You don't need to be happy at a character. But there's nothing wrong with being glad that others are happy for a character.

This is how I felt about Sora. Like, I don't care for KH and if I was the only person on earth then it'd have been a disappointment. But I was happy. I was so unbelievably happy to see things end with a character that so many people would've traded an organ for, after so many people in the old thread were insisting "Smash always ends on a low note." It was beautiful.

 

[Noipoi]

I've never felt like this before but I'm really itching for a new Nintendo console right now. Admittedly I'm not even much of a gamer, I just happen to enjoy Smash Bros and a few other series. But the Switch has gotten so old. And I need something to fuel new Smash speculation. It feels like everyone's circling around the same two topics.

I just need to see a new 3D Mario

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sans and Doom Slayer weren't expected either, as far as I know. Just mentioned as cool ideas.

There was a point where I thought Doom Slayer was gonna happen lol.

This is what I said about Doom Slayer 5 years ago

I actually have a lot of confidence in Doom Slayer being one of the remaining characters in the fighter pass. There are a lot of tidbits and evidence that help support the idea.

Sakurai has commented about John Carmack (lead programmer for the original Doom) referring to him as the father of FPS’s.

In an interview from September 2018, Pete Hines (Vice President of Bethesda) said Bethesda has talked to Nintendo in regards to Smash, and recently suggested there would be Doom related surprises for Nintendo fans.

Pete Hines also said that Nintendo has talked to him about the popularity of Bethesda games among Nintendo Switch owners (note that Skyrim and Doom released on the Switch back in 2017).

Mick Gordon (composer for the recent Doom games) said he's working on a video game project back in January (same time Grant Kirkhope was contacted to provide Banjo-Kazooie music for Smash)

Bethesda has also been partnering with Nintendo a lot lately (we even got Link’s BotW outfit in Skyrim), and their games are popular among Nintendo fans.

We know Nintendo chose the list of characters for the fighter pass, and it would make sense that Nintendo would want to include a character from arguably their most supportive 3rd party company (currently). Doom Slayer’s inclusion could even be used to promote the upcoming Doom Eternal, similarly to how the Hero is promoting Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition.

As for Sakurai, he is no doubt aware of how big of a deal the original Doom was, and seeing how Sakurai seems to like adding guest characters from from groundbreaking titles/franchises, I think he would totally be down with the inclusion.

I really think this is going to happen.

I was very wrong, and I swear I wasn’t alone

 

[superprincess]

I just need to see a new 3D Mario

I'm really curious to see what they do with it after the Mario movie. It'd be really boring if they just go right back to the "Peach gets kidnapped, go collect macguffins to stop Bowser" plot.

I'm also dying for a new Mario Kart... I can't believe Mario Kart 8 has been the newest one for more than half of my lifetime.

And of course, I'm so ready for a new Smash atp, Ultimate is so shallow competitively and I squeezed every bit of fun I could have with it in 2018-2021. It's been long enough. I'm sure they'll hold Smash off till Year 2 or even Year 3 though so... we shall wait.

 

[Momotsuki]

A mainline Mario game needs to be fun. It needs to be fun to play, fun to look at, and fun to listen to. It really doesn't need to have anything close to a captivating narrative. A text blurb about what a jerk Bowser is is entirely sufficient.

Mind you, I am only talking about mainline Mario games here, obviously the RPGs should have more going on in that regard.

 

[kirbstr]

Re: General SSB6 Roster expectations and hopes

I expect there to probably be between 55 and 65 base fighters before echoes.

I think there will be about 2 or 3 third party newcomers base game.

Fire Emblem Engage and Xenoblade 3 probably miss the boat, and newcomers for these series will hinge on timing of their releases and SSB6’s development cycles.

Between 55 and 65 base fighters is an almost absurdly unrealistic number. Brawl and Smash 4 launched with roughly 14 newcomers without taking clone characters into account. No matter how many cuts you think are going to happen for the next game, it's not going to be 30-40 characters lmao. The devs would basically be doing the "cut the smash Ultimate roster in half" exercise that got popular on youtube a few months ago.

If they are going to go the roster nuke route, I imagine it would be a full reboot with a base roster of 25-30 characters.

 

[superprincess]

A mainline Mario game needs to be fun. It needs to be fun to play, fun to look at, and fun to listen to. It really doesn't need to have anything close to a captivating narrative. A text blurb about what a jerk Bowser is is entirely sufficient.

Mind you, I am only talking about mainline Mario games here, obviously the RPGs should have more going on in that regard.

Did I say it needs to have a deep story? I just want my favorite character to not be treated like an object. Odyssey is the last original Mario game to have Peach get kidnapped, and no 3D Mario has come out since, so I'm kinda worried abt the next one.

Best case scenario would be a 64 DS type deal with 3D World's roster + Daisy

 

[Noipoi]

I can't believe Mario Kart 8 has been the newest one for more than half of my lifetime.

Jesus Christ it’s been that long

 

[Momotsuki]

Nintendo knows what the people want. They want to see "[big number] fighters!" so they can pog at the character select screen.
We - the ones who care about Smash enough to sign up for a forum about it - are not "the people."

Be there cuts or no cuts, the roster size will likely not be that different. Maybe a bit higher or lower in the case of cuts, but that's it, really.

Best case scenario would be a 64 DS type deal with 3D World's roster + Daisy

Oh, I'd love that! When 3D World was re-released I kept hoping they'd add Daisy as a playable character in an update. I thought she could have a calico-themed cat suit.

 

[Momotsuki]

Please delete this post.

 

[Wonder Smash]

There was a point where I thought Doom Slayer was gonna happen lol.

This is what I said about Doom Slayer 5 years ago



I was very wrong, and I swear I wasn’t alone

Was this before the interview where they admitted to having talked about Doom Slayer for Smash and contacted Nintendo about it but didn't get a response yet at that time? Because pretty much everybody took that as a major blow to his chances.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hello. Am Back.

I've been thinking a lot about how the veteran characters can be improved, and today, my brain has fixated on the Mii Fighters.

The Miis are...wierd. They don't really bring that inherent silliness that they have in other games aside from costumes and Head-On Assault (love that move), and each one has their own appeal problems on top of that:

1. Mii Gunner leans hard into their projectile zoner archetype in some interesting ways, but their special moves are too heavily linked to other characters, Samus especially.
2. Mii Brawler actually has a decent spread of useable and unique moves to choose from, but their normals are so bland they lack an identity anyway.
3. Mii Swordfighter takes a hard left turn and ends up as a non-traditional swordfighter who can either be super aggressive or super defensive, but doesn't rely on their normals for spacing as much as you'd expect. This gives them the most identity and takes the most advantage of their customization gimmick, but makes them confusing in the context of the other two. Like, if they're supposed to represent styles of play, why are two out of the three of them projectile zoners?

I feel like the Mii Brawler and Mii Gunner's issues could potentially be solved pretty easily with a bit of creativity, but I do worry about changing the direction of the Mii Swordfighter since with so many swordfighters in the game, changing the character to be more like them could just make them boring. I dunno how I'd tackle that one...

I can't believe Mario Kart 8 has been the newest one for more than half of my lifetime.

Wait. How old is this game?

Nintendo revealed Mario Kart 8 in 2013, and released it in May 2014.

dies

 

[HyperSomari64]

For Mario Kart 8's 10th Anniversary, Nintendo will partner with The Pokémon Company to release a new Battle Arena based on the Pokémon franchise. This will also include an special Pikachu Mii suit. Only for 60$.

/jk

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

/jk

Pokémon Team Turbo track HERE WE GO!!!