Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing is that if a FE character didn't get into base Smash 6, there would be rampant paranoia and anxiousness by fans about which fighter's pass spot the "obvious" next Fire Emblem selection would end up being.

After Byleth, there's loads of people that do not want to be unpleasantly surprised again and even by fans that don't care about the franchise, another fighter from them is practically seen as a given regardless of what hypothetical game they'd come from. Even more than Pokémon (which outside the pseudo example of Mewtwo in Smash 4 has not yet been a DLC fighter) "FE character" is treated as an inevitability often with a proverbial shrug and sentiment that Nintendo/Smash will always figure out a way to put one in somewhere.

 

[Perkilator]

Re: Alear
As much as I don’t really know for sure if Alear can get in on their own merits, let alone depending on the timing of the next game’s development, I feel like they get way too much unnecessary hate. I used to be a hater when Engage was revealed but once I actually played Engage and got to know Alear I picked female in case two of you are wondering I came to like them a lot more.

 

[Opossum]

I know people like to dog on Corrin in the Fire Emblem fandom (and a lot of it is deserved) but it is something that people overplay here.

She's not universally hated. She's still got a lot of fans. She even won a CYL poll. She's not one of the most popular lords. But she isn't hated.

If you want a Fire Emblem character who is near universally hated, check on Malakov. Sheesh, that guy is awful.

I know it's not really the over all point of this post, but Corrin's CYL win in particular doesn't really hold...much value at all. She suffered a lot from the massive vote drop off that happened in the seventh and eighth rounds, and if all of the vote totals of the 32 CYL Winners are accounted for...she did very poorly in comparison.

Color coded for convenience: CYL1, CYL2, CYL3, CYL4, CYL5, CYL6, CYL7, CYL8

Edelgard - 74,617 votes
Gatekeeper - 72,267 votes
Dimitri - 69,448 votes
Alm - 62,216 votes
Claude - 59,751 votes
Micaiah - 54,343 votes
Ike - 51, 555 votes (combined)
Lyn - 49,917 votes
Lucina - 48,295 (42,875 without Masked Marth)
Camilla - 46,741 votes
Marth - 46,699 votes
Eliwood - 44,687 votes
Lysithea - 42,462 votes
Chrom - 42,134 votes
Tiki (Adult) - 39,705 votes
Hector - 38,527 votes
Celica - 36,302 votes
Marianne - 33,555 votes
Eirika - 31,875 votes
Ephraim - 31,027 votes
Veronica - 29,206 votes
Roy - 28,982 votes
Seliph - 26,301 votes
Byleth (Female) - 20,855 votes
Bernadetta - 19,600 votes
Robin (Male) - 18,401 votes
Soren - 18,051 votes
Gullveig - 16,941 votes
Corrin (Female) - 14,369 votes
Alfonse - 13,286 votes
Robin (Female) - 12,319 votes
Felix - 11,612 votes


On that note too, it also paints a picture that Roy actually did pretty badly all things considered compared to the other CYL1 winners, but I digress. Also of note for the sake of transparency, but CYL3 in particular was absolutely plagued by bot voting, making the vote totals of the CYL3 winners uncharacteristically high.

 

[Gengar84]

People who are unironically predicting Alear either don't play Fire Emblem, or are too caught up in made-up fan rules. Probably both. Most people are predicting them because "obligatory FE shill pick" or as a means to include some FE classics who missed their chance (Lyn and Celica come to mind). However, as someone who played through Engage, I have to say it really doesn't deserve a place in Smash's FE lineup.

Engage didn't garner nearly the same amount of hype as Three Houses, and surely didn't enjoy the same praise. It also doesn't help that Engage's character designs and writing have been heavily criticized. The game also kinda missed its chance, timing-wise. I doubt an early 2023 game would be on Sakurai's radar by now (given that Smash 6's project plan was very likely crafted in late 2023). Especially considering that Smash 6 is looking to be a 2026 release a the absolute earliest. Alear will be old news by then.

Also, I say this as a big FE fan, but Corrin and Byleth really should've taught Sakurai a lesson. Including the main character from the latest game every time isn't going to get a good reaction, especially if said game wasn't very well-received.

Speaking of, I'm tired of Smash's "just go for the main character" approach when it comes to the FE picks. Robin was so fresh and felt like what FE needed to diversify its Smash cast, before the cast was even repetitive and monotone. Going for the less obvious pick can result in miracles. Robin really was ahead of their time.

I agree. Fire Emblem has so many cool characters and the lords are often some of the least interesting in their games in my opinion. I feel this is especially true in the most recent entries. I’m just not particularly big on avatar characters in general. Part of the fun of Smash is seeing all kinds of different personalities come together and adding too many avatars takes away from that. If Smash just falls into the pattern of adding the most recent lord it kind of kills the fun of speculation and ends up just feeling obligatory.

Engage is the first mainline Fire Emblem game I skipped since I started playing the series with Path of Radiance. The characters and tone of the game just don’t really appeal to me. I’m having a lot of fun with Triangle Strategy as my SRPG these days. I think I’ll probably get Disgaea 7 at some point too. I’ll definitely go back to Fire Emblem if we get something more along the lines of Ike’s games in the future.

Finally, I feel the same way with Pokemon starters as Fire Emblem lords. Besides Meowscarada, most of the recent starters don’t really appeal to me much and my favorites are usually less commonly speculated. My top 3 for Scarlet and Violet are Ceruledge, Lokix, and Great Tusk. Hisuian Zoroark and Sneasler are other recent Pokemon that are among my overall favorites. I do like Meowscarada but the most recent Pokemon newcomer we got was a dark type cat starter so I’d prefer something a bit different.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I know it's not really the over all point of this post, but Corrin's CYL win in particular doesn't really hold...much value at all. She suffered a lot from the massive vote drop off that happened in the seventh and eighth rounds, and if all of the vote totals of the 32 CYL Winners are accounted for...she did very poorly in comparison.

Color coded for convenience: CYL1, CYL2, CYL3, CYL4, CYL5, CYL6, CYL7, CYL8

Edelgard - 74,617 votes
Gatekeeper - 72,267 votes
Dimitri - 69,448 votes
Alm - 62,216 votes
Claude - 59,751 votes
Micaiah - 54,343 votes
Ike - 51, 555 votes (combined)
Lyn - 49,917 votes
Lucina - 48,295 (42,875 without Masked Marth)
Camilla - 46,741 votes
Marth - 46,699 votes
Eliwood - 44,687 votes
Lysithea - 42,462 votes
Chrom - 42,134 votes
Tiki (Adult) - 39,705 votes
Hector - 38,527 votes
Celica - 36,302 votes
Marianne - 33,555 votes
Eirika - 31,875 votes
Ephraim - 31,027 votes
Veronica - 29,206 votes
Roy - 28,982 votes
Seliph - 26,301 votes
Byleth (Female) - 20,855 votes
Bernadetta - 19,600 votes
Robin (Male) - 18,401 votes
Soren - 18,051 votes
Gullveig - 16,941 votes
Corrin (Female) - 14,369 votes
Alfonse - 13,286 votes
Robin (Female) - 12,319 votes
Felix - 11,612 votes


On that note too, it also paints a picture that Roy actually did pretty badly all things considered compared to the other CYL1 winners, but I digress. Also of note for the sake of transparency, but CYL3 in particular was absolutely plagued by bot voting, making the vote totals of the CYL3 winners uncharacteristically high.

Well this just makes me curious. How did Corrin do on rounds where they didn't win?

 

[Opossum]

Well this just makes me curious. How did Corrin do on rounds where they didn't win?

Vote Count wise, she peaked in CYL1 with about 19k votes. Had she won with that total, she'd be between Bernadetta and Byleth, so still pretty bad in comparison.

 

[SPEN18]

My opinion on Engage is overall the pretty standard "gameplay good, story bad" one. Actually I was pleasantly surprised about how well they were able to implement the Engage mechanics (which I was seriously concerned about pre-release), I liked the Break and weapon triangle mechanics overall, player phases and boss fights were interesting. It's one of those things where if you ignore the fluff and focus on the actual playing of the game, it has some pretty satisfying moments.
Just, that story and tone were especially strange as a follow-up to Three Houses' success, which featured one of the more take-myself-seriously stories and themes the series has had (school-sim clichés notwithstanding). Tbh I think FE4 remake would've been the better direct follow-up to TH, but that's besides the point.
Anyway, Engage deserves more credit than it sometimes gets, but yeah, ultimately it did not capitalize on TH's success as effectively as it could have with a less divisive story and character direction. Add that up with timing likely not being optimal and Alear feels pretty skippable Smash-wise.

 

[Pupp135]

The only series where I have a strong preference towards a character are Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Sonic, and Final Fantasy, and I bolded my wanted ones.
Toad/Toadette, Waluigi
Dixie Kong
Kamek
Ashley
Midna
Gengar and Mew, Most likely a Gen X pokemon.
Bandana Waddle Dee
Krystal
Noah/Mio
Raven Beak
For lords, Celica, if non-lords count, Nino, Amber, and Sommie would be great. I have no clue who will actually join, assuming that Engage missed its chance.
Octoling echo, DJ Octavio/Squid Sisters
Tom Nook
Oatchi
Viridi
Porky
Samurai Goroh
Big Hippo
Ninjara
Matt
Amy, Tails
Raiden
Zero
Tidus, Tifa
Chun-Li
Jeanne
Alucard
Aigis
Slime
Gruntilda
Creeper
Heihachi
Nakoruru
Riku

 

[7NATOR]

You know, if the Next Smash were to have a long DLC Cycle, I think when deciding to add in a New Fire Emblem character or New Pokemon, it would be cool if they did some sort of Mini ballot for those characters, so People could vote on what Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters they want

and for Pokemon, it might not have to be just limited to the Current Generation, and same with Fire Emblem

They also could do this for Other Nintendo Series, and maybe for some of the 3rd parties, but I'm relucent on 3rd party characters since it takes alot of planning to include those characters in. I just think a Ballot system would be perfect for making Fire Emblem and Pokemon Characters become more exciting additions, since it would be the Fans deciding who gets in

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know, if the Next Smash were to have a long DLC Cycle, I think when deciding to add in a New Fire Emblem character or New Pokemon, it would be cool if they did some sort of Mini ballot for those characters, so People could vote on what Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters they want

Here's a problem: Characters have to be locked in months, if not a couple years, before they're complete. So they would just be giving away that a new Pokemon/FE lord would be coming...eventually.

 

[7NATOR]

Here's a problem: Characters have to be locked in months, if not a couple years, before they're complete. So they would just be giving away that a new Pokemon/FE lord would be coming...eventually.

Yes, and you get to decide which Pokemon/FE Character is getting in. Same thing they did with ARMS, but it actually matters what character we want it to be, though it would take longer for the Answer to come to fruition since it takes time for Characters to develop

There probably would be other DLC Characters in Development at the same time though

 

[Ivander]

I know it's not really the over all point of this post, but Corrin's CYL win in particular doesn't really hold...much value at all. She suffered a lot from the massive vote drop off that happened in the seventh and eighth rounds, and if all of the vote totals of the 32 CYL Winners are accounted for...she did very poorly in comparison.

Color coded for convenience: CYL1, CYL2, CYL3, CYL4, CYL5, CYL6, CYL7, CYL8

Edelgard - 74,617 votes
Gatekeeper - 72,267 votes
Dimitri - 69,448 votes
Alm - 62,216 votes
Claude - 59,751 votes
Micaiah - 54,343 votes
Ike - 51, 555 votes (combined)
Lyn - 49,917 votes
Lucina - 48,295 (42,875 without Masked Marth)
Camilla - 46,741 votes
Marth - 46,699 votes
Eliwood - 44,687 votes
Lysithea - 42,462 votes
Chrom - 42,134 votes
Tiki (Adult) - 39,705 votes
Hector - 38,527 votes
Celica - 36,302 votes
Marianne - 33,555 votes
Eirika - 31,875 votes
Ephraim - 31,027 votes
Veronica - 29,206 votes
Roy - 28,982 votes
Seliph - 26,301 votes
Byleth (Female) - 20,855 votes
Bernadetta - 19,600 votes
Robin (Male) - 18,401 votes
Soren - 18,051 votes
Gullveig - 16,941 votes
Corrin (Female) - 14,369 votes
Alfonse - 13,286 votes
Robin (Female) - 12,319 votes
Felix - 11,612 votes


On that note too, it also paints a picture that Roy actually did pretty badly all things considered compared to the other CYL1 winners, but I digress. Also of note for the sake of transparency, but CYL3 in particular was absolutely plagued by bot voting, making the vote totals of the CYL3 winners uncharacteristically high.

I'm pretty sure it was CYL4 IIRC that was plagued by bot voting, because that was the one Jorge ended up becoming a GHB from and revealed that there were bots affecting the ballot to begin with. Hence why starting with CYL5, IS made it so only those with My Nintendo Accounts could vote, which definitely had an impact on later CYLs since people without a Nintendo Account could no longer vote on it.

 

[Opossum]

I'm pretty sure it was CYL4 IIRC that was plagued by bot voting, because that was the one Jorge ended up becoming a GHB from and revealed that there were bots affecting the ballot to begin with. Hence why starting with CYL5, IS made it so only those with My Nintendo Accounts could vote, which definitely had an impact on later CYLs since people without a Nintendo Account could no longer vote on it.

Three was also plagued with them, as votes across the board were well above what they should have been. CYL4 was just when specific targets were more apparent, ie Jorge.

It also doesn't help that like...look at Alm and Micaiah in particular, lol. They're popular, but not that popular. Basically, CYL4 had bot problems with lower end targets. CYL3 had them across the board, bloating the vote totals of the upper end. Two different ends of the bot problem spectrum.

 

[Kirbeh]

*Nintendo. They are the ones who chose them.

Also speaking on Ultimate. Obligatory Delzethin Promotion

In the middle of watching Del's vid and I wound up pausing on the "only 6 (unique) newcomers in Ultimate was disappointing" part. This was outside the norm for Smash due to EiH, but even that aside, 6 newcomers is honestly a pretty reasonable newcomer count for any other fighting game out there. Sakurai and co have truly spoiled this fanbase.

Not that I'm complaining about Smash's consistently high newcomer count mind you, but it does feel a bit strange when you stop and try looking at it from the outside so to speak. 12+ newcomers per game (with Brawl being as high as 18!) is honestly pretty crazy. A lot of Smash is just pretty crazy and we love it for that, but it's also created a lot of ever increasing lofty expectations for what is "acceptable" for a new game.

 

[superprincess]

Then who are your top picks for newcomers ?

There's actually barely any characters I actively want in Smash, because most of my favorites are already in. If I had to compile a list though, these would be my top picks:

• Chun-Li. I recently got into SF and she's a blast to play in every game she's in. That, combined with her sheer legacy and pop culture prevalence, was enough to sell me on her inclusion pretty quick.
• Jeanne. Bayonetta feels rather "lonely" in Smash, in the sense that there's no one that really matches her vibe. I love the series and Jeanne is the perfect fit for an echo fighter.
• Pauline. I admit part of me just wants her to complete the Mario girls quartet, but she'd be nice to have in general. I imagine her with a music/dance oriented moveset, and also using her big hat and her purse to emphasize her luxurious nature.
•Toadette/Peachette. I know, this has no chance of happening but I wrote down a pretty extensive concept on how it could work, and it turned out surprisingly appealing. Would be a unique take on a comeback mechanic.
•Impa. I used to be a huge proponent for her in Smash, but not anymore. I still want her but I'm not losing sleep over her potential inclusion. When she is brought up, the question of her design and specifically her age automatically comes up, and while there's no definitive answer, I think the most unique (and funniest) way they could do Impa is taking her elderly BotW/TotK design and making her a surprisingly nimble fighter who uses Sheikah technology.
•Urbosa. The Gerudo are my favorite Zelda race by far and Urbosa's personality and design are just really cool. Her scimitar, shield, and electric powers could lend themselves to a very unique moveset.
•Captain Syrup. The Wario Land side of Wario has virtually no representation in Smash, and Syrup could change that. I'm also a fan of her design and playful attitude, and her pirate theme could make for a very original fighter.

 

[Laniv]

...I just want Tiki.

Anyways, here are characters I want per franchise

Spoiler: Long list

 

[CosmicEternity44]

There's actually barely any characters I actively want in Smash, because most of my favorites are already in. If I had to compile a list though, these would be my top picks:

• Chun-Li. I recently got into SF and she's a blast to play in every game she's in. That, combined with her sheer legacy and pop culture prevalence, was enough to sell me on her inclusion pretty quick.
• Jeanne. Bayonetta feels rather "lonely" in Smash, in the sense that there's no one that really matches her vibe. I love the series and Jeanne is the perfect fit for an echo fighter.
• Pauline. I admit part of me just wants her to complete the Mario girls quartet, but she'd be nice to have in general. I imagine her with a music/dance oriented moveset, and also using her big hat and her purse to emphasize her luxurious nature.
•Toadette/Peachette. I know, this has no chance of happening but I wrote down a pretty extensive concept on how it could work, and it turned out surprisingly appealing. Would be a unique take on a comeback mechanic.
•Impa. I used to be a huge proponent for her in Smash, but not anymore. I still want her but I'm not losing sleep over her potential inclusion. When she is brought up, the question of her design and specifically her age automatically comes up, and while there's no definitive answer, I think the most unique (and funniest) way they could do Impa is taking her elderly BotW/TotK design and making her a surprisingly nimble fighter who uses Sheikah technology.
•Urbosa. The Gerudo are my favorite Zelda race by far and Urbosa's personality and design are just really cool. Her scimitar, shield, and electric powers could lend themselves to a very unique moveset.
•Captain Syrup. The Wario Land side of Wario has virtually no representation in Smash, and Syrup could change that. I'm also a fan of her design and playful attitude, and her pirate theme could make for a very original fighter.

Bonus points for you for wanting Captain Syrup! That is also a character I want in Smash Bros.

 

[Ivander]

Three was also plagued with them, as votes across the board were well above what they should have been. CYL4 was just when specific targets were more apparent, ie Jorge.

It also doesn't help that like...look at Alm and Micaiah in particular, lol. They're popular, but not that popular. Basically, CYL4 had bot problems with lower end targets. CYL3 had them across the board, bloating the vote totals of the upper end. Two different ends of the bot problem spectrum.

Micaiah was definitely because there were people who did not want Camilla to win, especially with the stigma towards her after her Adrift and Hot Spring alts. Camilla was shown as 1st place during the Midterms with Micaiah being 2nd and either Robin or Eirika behind her. People basically voted Micaiah to prevent Camilla from winning.

Alm I wouldn't be surprised if it was because Echoes fans went for Alm after Celica so that Alm could have one with her, much like how after Lyn and Hector got their Brave versions, those fans were voting for Eliwood to join them. While there was definitely cases of Botting in CYL3, it was still at a low and unnoticeable rate since nobody gave it any thought until Jorge, since the one who botted Jorge was "testing" on another character in CYL3 before fully attempting it with Jorge.

Edit: Opossum , Wait I just remembered. Are you possibly thinking about the deal with Female Robin where she was getting alot of votes because of a notable Youtuber telling his fanbase to vote for Female Robin? Because that wasn't so much botting as it was more a rally to vote for one character.

 

[superprincess]

Bonus points for you for wanting Captain Syrup! That is also a character I want in Smash Bros.

I've seen a surprising amount of support for her on this site. Not complaining!

I forgot to add this to my list, but come to think of it, a lot of characters I want are literally just Daisy-like echoes that shake up the original's personality and vibe without changing gameplay and taking time and resources. Funky Kong's wild personality would be a blast in Smash, while Dry Bowser would offer a more fearsome and beastly version of Bowser while letting the original Koopa King hopefully be a bit more cartoony. Medusa would need to be mirrored from Palutena because she's left-handed, but I think the rest of her moves could work pretty well with the good goddess' moveset. In terms of personality, think of her as the Dark Samus to Palutena's Samus.

This does bring up the interesting question of echo fighters. What did you guys think of them in Ultimate? Do you think the concept will return in the next game? If yes, what are some echoes you would want to see? If not, what do you think will happen to them? Will they get cut, or decloned like the Melee clones in their transition to Brawl?

 

[7NATOR]

In the middle of watching Del's vid and I wound up pausing on the "only 6 (unique) newcomers in Ultimate was disappointing" part. This was outside the norm for Smash due to EiH, but even that aside, 6 newcomers is honestly a pretty reasonable newcomer count for any other fighting game out there. Sakurai and co have truly spoiled this fanbase.

Not that I'm complaining about Smash's consistently high newcomer count mind you, but it does feel a bit strange when you stop and try looking at it from the outside so to speak. 12+ newcomers per game (with Brawl being as high as 18!) is honestly pretty crazy. A lot of Smash is just pretty crazy and we love it for that, but it's also created a lot of ever increasing lofty expectations for what is "acceptable" for a new game.

I'd Say crossover Fighters, or just Fighters on already made I.Ps do typically have alot of Characters, and I think a Big Factor is you don't have to take time to Designing characters themselves and their backstories and Personalities, nor any Redesigns for Sequels and such.

As an example, I think it was pretty amazing that MVC3 launched with 36 Playable characters, which is less than MVC2's 56, but that game was an Asset Dump, plus MVC3 was the first 3D Game in the series.

FighterZ had 24 characters at launch, which yes did include SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta as Seperate from SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta, but that's still more than other Arc System works launch rosters

But I do agree that Smash is pretty crazy among other Fighting games. Smash Wii U was the First HD Game made in the series, and 3DS was the First Portable game made in the series, yet there was still 51 characters at launch, 17 of them being Newcomers.

I think beyond just the fact you are working with characters that exist already, Sakurai and others Planning the game out beforehand and not deviating too much allows stuff like this to happen.

I also think it helps that this amount of content is part of why Smash sells so well I think. Smash being the Anomly it is I think is quite a good thing, because people love Content.

That's why I disagree with the lot of you on this site that think we are getting 40-60 Characters only, and why I think we might push PAST 100 Characters on the roster. If you combine the following elements together

-The Planning that goes into Smash games
-The Namco Team that's sticking with the Series a 3rd time
-Coming off every veteran having HD Graphics (which wasn't the case with Ultimate)
-The Balance of Ultimate being the best in the series, despite having the most characters
-Nintendo allowing even more extra Development time than usual, with cases like TOTK, Mario Wonder, MP4 (being reset)
-The New Engine made inhouse by Namco that will allow more inside knowledge of how to use the engine to full efficiency, especially since it was headed by Someone that has worked on Smash for 3DS and Ultimate
-The Rumored New console just being a More powerful iteration on the Current Console
-Smash Ultimate becoming the Best Selling Fighting game
-Nintendo having probably the most money they have had ever, from the Switch, The Software, Theme Park, Movies, Mobile, etc

I just don't see a Scenario where this Next Smash is going to be a Downgrade to Ultimate, especially if Ultimate will be Backwards Compatible with this next Console. That's just the way I'm looking at things

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Guess I'll throw in my list for newcomers per existing series:

Spoiler

 

[MasterCheef]

There's actually barely any characters I actively want in Smash, because most of my favorites are already in. If I had to compile a list though, these would be my top picks:

Why no love for ; , Ahri or Lux ?

We really could use some real mages in smash.
Most of the zoners are really un-fun right now.

 

[7NATOR]

I've seen a surprising amount of support for her on this site. Not complaining!

I forgot to add this to my list, but come to think of it, a lot of characters I want are literally just Daisy-like echoes that shake up the original's personality and vibe without changing gameplay and taking time and resources. Funky Kong's wild personality would be a blast in Smash, while Dry Bowser would offer a more fearsome and beastly version of Bowser while letting the original Koopa King hopefully be a bit more cartoony. Medusa would need to be mirrored from Palutena because she's left-handed, but I think the rest of her moves could work pretty well with the good goddess' moveset. In terms of personality, think of her as the Dark Samus to Palutena's Samus.

This does bring up the interesting question of echo fighters. What did you guys think of them in Ultimate? Do you think the concept will return in the next game? If yes, what are some echoes you would want to see? If not, what do you think will happen to them? Will they get cut, or decloned like the Melee clones in their transition to Brawl?

Alot of people felt Echoes were under-utilized in Ultimate, but In my view, I think what we got was just enough.

While Echoes take less effort than Real Fighters, they still take some effort, and I think the characters themselves still need to be worth it in the end.

All the Echo Fighters (Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy, Richter, Dark Samus, Chrom, Ken) all are popular characters, at least within their Franchises, and/or were stated to be Requested Fighters. But this was the only way for them to get in, otherwise they wouldn't be in. I also think one thing about the Echo Fighters (besides the 3rd party ones) was that it was the best Time for them to have gotten in

Lucina and Dark Pit got in when their games were at their Most Relevant, Chrom and Dark Samus got in long after they were most relevant, but were requested to get in. Daisy I'm guess there wasn't a Thought she would have been in a Mainline game, or something like that. I also don't think Sakurai likes taking from the Spin-off games for the Mario Characters in terms of material for moveset


Richter was essentiality made along with Simon, and Ken is pretty much his own thing


For Decloning, I do think Daisy could get maybe a Triple Jump, and Dark Samus could get her Cloning abilities if the Technology allows it.

I think at the Least, we'll probably see more Isabelle Situations then Echo Fighters, kind of like Brawl. Characters that take aspects from another fighter, but are more unique than the Echoes we got. I don't know if we'll get more Echo Fighters. I honestly think the concept might be Ultimate only. Either that or it's Definition would be expanded

As for Echo though, my Dream Pick would be Dark Bowser, even over Dry Bowser. I love his Color Scheme, His Dark Flames, and his Big Spirit Ball Attack, But that's just pipe dream

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hypothetically, if Fire Emblem doesn’t get a single new character for the entirety of the next Smash’s life while other franchises like Kirby, Zelda, or Sonic finally get some attention…

Would that be enough? Could Smash fans finally let the resentment go?

The resentment would just go elsewhere.

side-eyes Xenoblade

It's okay if their favorite series gets attention, it's not okay when another series they don't like gets attention over their favorites.

It's more "It's not okay for a series with a fraction of Mario or Pokemon's popularity to get the same level of attention as Mario and Pokemon".

FE's popularity does not warrant the "each installment gets a new Fighter" treatment.

 

[Gengar84]

Why no love for ; , Ahri or Lux ?

We really could use some real mages in smash.
Most of the zoners are really un-fun right now.

I get the feeling that there isn’t a whole lot of overlap between Smash fans and League of Legends fans. I mostly just care about the characters and lore of League but I’ve never played the mainline game because I’m not great at hyper competitive esports style games. Arcane was an amazing show that I’d highly recommend to anyone here that is even remotely interested in the characters.

I think there’s a few ways you could go with a LoL character. Any character could easily work as a standalone fighter, which would be the simplest approach. The game has a ton of unique archetypes that could be new to Smash and offer a unique gameplay style. Some popular options include Jinx, Vi, Ahri, and Yasuo.

Alternatively, they could play up the teamwork aspect of the series and give us an iconic pairing. The LoL fighting game, 2XKO is also based on 2 vs 2 team battles so that’s another point in that column. The pairings could have team attacks when switching between characters which hasn’t really been done before. Two options for duos could be Ahri/Yasuo or Vi/Caitlyn.

 

[Alphine Agnitio]

Hot take: I'd rather have a splatoon 3 themed inkling then octoling/squid sisters. Or maybe Deep Cut with Shiver as the main character riding her shark with Fyre and Big Man providing support

 

[Opossum]

Micaiah was definitely because there were people who did not want Camilla to win, especially with the stigma towards her after her Adrift and Hot Spring alts. Camilla was shown as 1st place during the Midterms with Micaiah being 2nd and either Robin or Eirika behind her. People basically voted Micaiah to prevent Camilla from winning.

Alm I wouldn't be surprised if it was because Echoes fans went for Alm after Celica so that Alm could have one with her, much like how after Lyn and Hector got their Brave versions, those fans were voting for Eliwood to join them. While there was definitely cases of Botting in CYL3, it was still at a low and unnoticeable rate since nobody gave it any thought until Jorge, since the one who botted Jorge was "testing" on another character in CYL3 before fully attempting it with Jorge.

Edit: Opossum , Wait I just remembered. Are you possibly thinking about the deal with Female Robin where she was getting alot of votes because of a notable Youtuber telling his fanbase to vote for Female Robin? Because that wasn't so much botting as it was more a rally to vote for one character.

I think you're missing my point. I have no doubt that even without the botting, those four would have won that year. My issue is that, across the board, CYL3 had serious vote inflation. I even noticed this again when checking how Corrin did on previous CYLs: lo and behold, CYL3 was her second highest total. And this can be seen by looking at the winner totals year by year. The only two years that had their winners do BETTER than the top two of the previous year were CYL3 and CYL4, despite the concept of diminishing returns. CYL4, botting of the bottom rung aside, makes sense for this: Three Houses added a ton of lifeblood to the player base. CYL3 did not have that excuse, and everything points to the vote totals having been inflated, albeit inflated uniformly.

CYL3 botting was widespread across the top, but it was also a case of rising tides raising all ships. CYL4 stood out because the botters focused on no names like Jorge, who ended up being way outside the realm of believability.

 

[Louie G.]

Hot take: I'd rather have a splatoon 3 themed inkling then octoling/squid sisters. Or maybe Deep Cut with Shiver as the main character riding her shark with Fyre and Big Man providing support

No disrespect, but why over Octoling? They're functionally the same as Inkling, if anything Octoling is a great avenue to bring in a new loadout of weapons and keep things fresh without altering the Inkling we have too much. If you're already endorsing another version of Inkling, I don't understand what the aversion to Octoling in particular would be and would consider that to be probably your best chance at what you want to see.

 

[toonito]

my newcomers from existing series: bold are most wanted

Spoiler: Newcomers

 

[Alphine Agnitio]

No disrespect, but why over Octoling? They're functionally the same as Inkling, if anything Octoling is a great avenue to bring in a new loadout of weapons and keep things fresh without altering the Inkling we have too much. If you're already endorsing another version of Inkling, I don't understand what the aversion to Octoling in particular would be and would consider that to be probably your best chance at what you want to see.

Its mostly just the boring option in my eyes, although pretty much anything splatoon rep wise I'd be fine with, so its not like I'm aversive to it. Theres a lot of cool stuff you could add to represent the series, and the octoling/squid sisters is just, "meh, its fine ig" to me

Especially if we could get some of the more visually interesting characters like DJ Octavia or Mr. Grizz that aren't as much of a blank slate character with moveset potential


its totally not my splatoon 3 bias speaking with almost 500 hours over splat 2 being a mere 125 pff

 

[MasterCheef]

Alternatively, they could play up the teamwork aspect of the series and give us an iconic pairing. The LoL fighting game, 2XKO is also based on 2 vs 2 team battles so that’s another point in that column. The pairings could have team attacks when switching between characters which hasn’t really been done before. Two options for duos could be Ahri/Yasuo or Vi/Caitlyn.

.
.
Also it has been leaked Lux is also planned for 2XKO

to me Ahri & Lux would be the most interesting pair , especially for 1 character slot

I would really love some mages in smash , 3 would be fine for me

 

[Louie G.]

Its mostly just the boring option in my eyes, although pretty much anything splatoon rep wise I'd be fine with, so its not like I'm aversive to it. Theres a lot of cool stuff you could add to represent the series, and the octoling/squid sisters is just, "meh, its fine ig" to me

Especially if we could get some of the more visually interesting characters like DJ Octavia or Mr. Grizz that aren't as much of a blank slate character with moveset potential


its totally not my splatoon 3 bias speaking with almost 500 hours over splat 2 being a mere 125 pff

Yeah I understand that, I just mean that Octoling could just bring in the Splatoon 3 stuff instead since they functionally identically to Inklings in-game. So they can add Octoling, and also bring in all the new stuff from Splatoon 3 instead of adding another Inkling.

Also personally, my most wanted Splatoon characters are DJ Octavio and Off the Hook. I honestly think there's room for both an Octoling and one of those characters, assuming Octoling is an easier character to develop. But if they went all in making Octoling based around the weapons from 2 and 3, that'd probably be it.

 

[Alphine Agnitio]

Yeah I understand that, I just mean that Octoling could just bring in the Splatoon 3 stuff instead since they functionally identically to Inklings in-game. So they can add Octoling, and also bring in all the new stuff from Splatoon 3 instead of adding another Inkling.

Also personally, my most wanted Splatoon characters are DJ Octavio and Off the Hook. I honestly think there's room for both an Octoling and one of those characters, assuming Octoling is an easier character to develop. But if they went all in making Octoling based around the weapons from 2 and 3, that'd probably be it.

Honestly after Side Order I could see Off the Hook, especially cause Marina could operate a Pearl Drone with Pearl being the main combatant with a final smash of the iconic "booyah!" Pearl is known to do, maybe with a Ded1fish cameo

 

[Ivander]

Echo Fighters are a good idea in concept and paper. My problem tends to be that you have people suggesting characters where they do not fit. A character should not simply become an Echo Fighter just because "they can" or "have similarities". Considering we have issues with Dark Samus not utilising enough of her Phazon properties and Chrom being shorter than Lucina when in their own game, Chrom was a head taller than Lucina, Echo Fighters should be picked delicately.

• Ryu and Ken make sense when they are being based on their SF2 design philosophy. But even then, Ken does enough to make him noticeably different from Ryu gameplay-wise.
• Simon and Richter are fine because it's taking what Simon can do in his games and taking what Richter is doing in his games and combining them all into a moveset that both can use and share together without it being a glaring issue.
• Daisy works as a Peach Echo. She's capable of her own moves, but sometimes in those games, she is the same as Peach, so Daisy can be an Echo of Peach without it being out of place.
• Same with Dark Pit. Dark Pit canonically uses the same moves as Pit, with the only exception being The Three Sacred Treasures Dark Pit has never used, but otherwise, Dark Pit literally uses the same weaponry and attacks as Pit in Uprising. Dark Pit has more than enough potential to be his own character, but him being an Echo of Pit works just as well.
• Dark Samus can use Samus' suit to replicate her abilities, so Dark Samus can work as an Echo of Samus. The main issue people have is mainly with Dark Samus not having some of her own stuff, since she had some pretty cool abilities and attacks in her own games. But Dark Samus can use the same attacks as Samus since Dark Samus did steal Samus' Phazon Suit.
• Lucina works okay for Marth, although much like Dark Samus, the issue people have is that Lucina has stuff from her game that she doesn't use that some people think she should use. Somewhat same with Chrom and Roy, hence why some people think Chrom and Lucina having their own moveset that both can share together would work better for them.

So for the most part, the Echo Fighters chosen do work fine. Just in a couple of those cases, some people wish they could be given more. Otherwise, they work as intended. Also helps that their proportions are very similar in both Smash and their games, aside from Chrom, since he is taller than Lucina in Awakening. But it's not as glaring when people suggest Echo Fighters who aren't just bigger than the Fighter they're echoing, but are often very different gameplay-wise. Like taking a character who is a slow tanky juggernaut and trying to make them an Echo of a much faster and lighter character.

I think Echo Fighters best work not just when the Echo Fighter works gameplay and proportion-wise with the character they are Echoing, but when that character really does have no chance of being playable aside from being an Echo. Characters like Dixie Kong and Octoling, sure they can work, but with how they are next in line as the next Rep, they don't require the Echo Status. Whereas a character like Paula from Earthbound would never have a chance at being playable aside from being an Echo. Those kind of characters IMO are the best Echo Fighters rather than the characters who are certainly in the waiting line near the front.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I know it's not really the over all point of this post, but Corrin's CYL win in particular doesn't really hold...much value at all. She suffered a lot from the massive vote drop off that happened in the seventh and eighth rounds, and if all of the vote totals of the 32 CYL Winners are accounted for...she did very poorly in comparison.

Color coded for convenience: CYL1, CYL2, CYL3, CYL4, CYL5, CYL6, CYL7, CYL8

Edelgard - 74,617 votes
Gatekeeper - 72,267 votes
Dimitri - 69,448 votes
Alm - 62,216 votes
Claude - 59,751 votes
Micaiah - 54,343 votes
Ike - 51, 555 votes (combined)
Lyn - 49,917 votes
Lucina - 48,295 (42,875 without Masked Marth)
Camilla - 46,741 votes
Marth - 46,699 votes
Eliwood - 44,687 votes
Lysithea - 42,462 votes
Chrom - 42,134 votes
Tiki (Adult) - 39,705 votes
Hector - 38,527 votes
Celica - 36,302 votes
Marianne - 33,555 votes
Eirika - 31,875 votes
Ephraim - 31,027 votes
Veronica - 29,206 votes
Roy - 28,982 votes
Seliph - 26,301 votes
Byleth (Female) - 20,855 votes
Bernadetta - 19,600 votes
Robin (Male) - 18,401 votes
Soren - 18,051 votes
Gullveig - 16,941 votes
Corrin (Female) - 14,369 votes
Alfonse - 13,286 votes
Robin (Female) - 12,319 votes
Felix - 11,612 votes


On that note too, it also paints a picture that Roy actually did pretty badly all things considered compared to the other CYL1 winners, but I digress. Also of note for the sake of transparency, but CYL3 in particular was absolutely plagued by bot voting, making the vote totals of the CYL3 winners uncharacteristically high.

Okay, I know this is completely unrelated, but the fact that Bernadetta got more votes than Gullveig is weirdly cathartic. My girl deserved it after three years in third place.

Also, insert Edelgard for Smash statement here (it's almost midnight for me, I'm running on fumes).

 

[DarthEnderX]

A character should not simply become an Echo Fighter just because "they can" or "have similarities".

They should, if the alternative is they won't be playable at all.

The choice, from a development perspective, isn't between making a character a unique Fighter, or making them an Echo. It's between making them an Echo, or nothing.

I'd rather a character be playable, than not.

Considering we have issues with Dark Samus not utilising enough of her Phazon properties and Chrom being shorter than Lucina when in their own game, Chrom was a head taller than Lucina, Echo Fighters should be picked delicately.

No, they should relax the restrictions on how Echoes can differ from their Fighters so that they don't have those issues.

There's no reason for Dr. Mario and Pichu to not be considered Echoes. If the current restrictions don't allow it, then the restrictions should be changed. And if those restrictions change, they we can have a shorter Lucina or a Dark Samus with more Phazon properties.

 

[Jave]

As someone who has played every Fire Emblem game and has Engage as one of their favorites in the series it's honestly very frustrating having to always come to threads of any discussion and see any mention of Alear devolve into arguments on "why this character won't happen and here's why".

I've been discussing this for nearly two decades now. I don't care about "rules". I suggest characters because I like them and I want to see them in Smash. Alear is a character I very much love and I want to see in much because I'm intrigued by a potential moveset and I want to play as her in Smash. That's it.

 

[Ivander]

They should, if the alternative is they won't be playable at all.

The choice, from a development perspective, isn't between making a character a unique Fighter, or making them an Echo. It's between making them an Echo, or nothing.

I'd rather a character be playable, than not.

That's the thing. Some of the characters who people want playable are not in that area of "Either they are an Echo or they aren't playable". Octolings are absolutely not in that category. They are easily next in line regarding all Splatoon characters. Dixie Kong is Player 3 to Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong and with King K. Rool now in, she's next in line. When is another story, but her time is inevitable. Shadow the Hedgehog would work decently as a Echo Fighter for Sonic, but with him easily next to Eggman in who Sega would choose, especially with them giving Shadow alot of attention recently, he's more than likely not going to be given the Echo Fighter treatment.

Someone like Paula from Earthbound? A character from F-Zero? A Pokemon from a past Gen that long missed their chance? A notably less important and/or popular character from Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus and whatnot? Those are the characters who have no chance unless they are given the Echo Fighter treatment.

No, they should relax the restrictions on how Echoes can differ from their Fighters so that they don't have those issues.

There's no reason for Dr. Mario and Pichu to not be considered Echoes. If the current restrictions don't allow it, then the restrictions should be changed. And if those restrictions change, they we can have a shorter Lucina or a Dark Samus with more Phazon properties.

There's always the chance they'll relax the restrictions too far for your liking, since that would potentially allow Echo Fighters from series unrelated to the Fighter they are Echoing. But tis' a small price to pay for salvation for most of us.

 

[NintenRob]

As someone who has played every Fire Emblem game and has Engage as one of their favorites in the series it's honestly very frustrating having to always come to threads of any discussion and see any mention of Alear devolve into arguments on "why this character won't happen and here's why".

I've been discussing this for nearly two decades now. I don't care about "rules". I suggest characters because I like them and I want to see them in Smash. Alear is a character I very much love and I want to see in much because I'm intrigued by a potential moveset and I want to play as her in Smash. That's it.

Who's saying that you can't want Alear in Smash? Want who you want and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

But similarly, people can not want a character. And that's just as valid.


As for chance? I think it's fair game to say you don't think it's happening. There's plenty of valid arguments for and against. Personally I don't think it's happening for few reasons already mentioned here. And that's fine.

 

[Jave]

Who's saying that you can't want Alear in Smash? Want who you want and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

But similarly, people can not want a character. And that's just as valid.


As for chance? I think it's fair game to say you don't think it's happening. There's plenty of valid arguments for and against. Personally I don't think it's happening for few reasons already mentioned here. And that's fine.

I have no problems with people wanting or not wanting characters for any reason. All of that is valid and I respect it. I also don't mind discussing a character's chances. Heck, I'm one of the first people in this thread that expectations should be realistic when it comes to Smash. What I do take issue with is people telling others things like "If you think this character is happening then you haven't been paying attention" or other stuff like that. It feels insulting and condescending, and I've always considered it the worst aspect of Smash discussion.

I apologize if I sounded a bit too harsh there myself. I fully admit this is a "me" problem and I let it get to me sometimes.