Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

As long as Xenoblade keeps getting new games i can easily see Xenoblade becoming like Mario/Pokemon/Fire emblem and getting a new character in every new smash game.

And then people will eventually complain about it even though it makes sense.

and it will always be not the character you want but the one sakurai wants

 

[Nabbitfan730]

i can easily see Xenoblade becoming like Mario/Pokemon/Fire emblem and getting a new character in every new smash game.

And then people will eventually complain about it even though it makes sense.

And they will have every right to do

Xenoblade/FE priority over Zelda/Kirby/DK despite the latter being longer and just as if not more consistent in the releases is a nonsencial decision.

Doesn't help to dissuade the Bias rumors/Anime Swordsman/Lack of variety rumors either.

I think Sakurai will never change it. But I also think Sakurai is eventually not going to be in charge of Smash anymore.

Even though I think it'd make Smash a much worse game, I'm pretty sure the average corporate CEO views it as leaving money on the table. Thinking "Yeah, Smash is GOOD...but we could be making Fortnight money!"

And as soon as someone takes Sakurai's place, I wouldn't be surprised to see that limitation abolished.

I don't think that would the case as if even Sakurai steps down, he will most likely have a successor in place already to carry out his legacy

But that ever happens though, it would be the perfect time to jump ship from this series.

Speaking on Fortnite though.

Epic Games hints that they have tried several times to get Nintendo collaborations in Fortnite 👀

When asked how much effort Epic has put into this, Epic's head of ecosystem responded with:

"I don't know what the word for, like, making diamonds is."

(via @axios & @SamLeakss) pic.twitter.com/e1YYau3pqu

— Shiina (@ShiinaBR) December 9, 2023

 

[HyperSomari64]

Speaking on Fortnite though.

Epic Games hints that they have tried several times to get Nintendo collaborations in Fortnite 👀

When asked how much effort Epic has put into this, Epic's head of ecosystem responded with:

"I don't know what the word for, like, making diamonds is."

(via @axios & @SamLeakss) pic.twitter.com/e1YYau3pqu

— Shiina (@ShiinaBR) December 9, 2023

Visual representation of Epic Games and Nintendo meetings for a potential collaboration in Fortnite:

Also, The Simpsons will never be in Fortnite just like "Animation Throwdown" or "Warped kart Racers". But that's off-topic.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Honestly, I don't see the zealously in wanting Nintendo IPs in Fortnite.

Can't fully explain but most of me is glad Nintendo is holding off on putting their characters in. Idk, I mean doesn't Fortnite has a lot of big, big IPs in it already. Feels like gluttony: the game to me.

IMO Nintendo is not in any position to be difficult.

They don't have much going for them and the competition will eat their breakfast.

Sooner or later they'll just be a gaming developer.

— Storm Taker (@StormTaker_) December 9, 2023

Lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Nintendo REALLY doesnt want their guys fighing Goku

 

[HyperSomari64]

Nintendo REALLY doesnt want their guys fighing Goku

They already did.

Spoiler

(Granted, they sang rather than fight)

 

[Opossum]

And they will have every right to do

Xenoblade/FE priority over Zelda/Kirby/DK despite the latter being longer and just as if not more consistent in the releases is a nonsencial decision.

Doesn't help to dissuade the Bias rumors/Anime Swordsman/Lack of variety rumors either.

Ah yes, Donkey Kong. The franchise famous for its very consistent release schedule. I'd bet that it has at least two brand new Switch games right about now.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly, I don't see the zealously in wanting Nintendo IPs in Fortnite.

Can't fully explain but most of me is glad Nintendo is holding off on putting their characters in. Idk, I mean doesn't Fortnite has a lot of big, big IPs in it already. Feels like gluttony: the game to me.

IMO Nintendo is not in any position to be difficult.

They don't have much going for them and the competition will eat their breakfast.

Sooner or later they'll just be a gaming developer.

— Storm Taker (@StormTaker_) December 9, 2023

Lol

this storm person seems a little delusional

 

[osby]

And they will have every right to do

Xenoblade/FE priority over Zelda/Kirby/DK despite the latter being longer and just as if not more consistent in the releases is a nonsencial decision.

Doesn't help to dissuade the Bias rumors/Anime Swordsman/Lack of variety rumors either.

Fire Emblem is 2 years older than Kirby, what do you mean the latter is "longer"?

Do you mean that Kirby has more games?

 

[Amornal1]

Which western game rep do you feel are the most likely ones? In my case are crash bandicoot, jonesy and dovahkiin.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Fire Emblem is 2 years older than Kirby, what do you mean the latter is "longer"?

Do you mean that Kirby has more games?

Being older doesn't mean it could be more successful.
Look at Minecraft, since 2009 to today it dethroned Tetris as the best selling video game of all time.

 

[Opossum]

Being older doesn't mean it could be more successful.
Look at Minecraft, since 2009 to today it dethroned Tetris as the best selling video game of all time.

Except the post specifically said "longer," not "more successful." You're moving the goal post.

 

[Louie G.]

Sakurai clearly doesn't take [Zelda] seriously

We need to stop saying things like this. Zelda has substantial representation in pretty much every facet of the game - one of the only new stages in base game Ultimate, a ton of items, arrangements... Immense care was put into redesigning the Zelda cast for Ultimate and giving them each a distinctive look celebrating a different period of Zelda's history.

By now I wish that they would suck it up and add a supporting character, I think it's overdue and they could have justified adding additional villains a long time ago, but it's not a matter of not taking the series seriously. It's fundamentally the way characters are selected that discourages Zelda from building on top of itself, a hesitation to add characters who will not stick around unless they are concretely the protagonist. Since the major players are always Link and Zelda, and often some form of Ganondorf, Zelda does not have the same revolving door plan as Pokemon or Fire Emblem. Even though personally, I wouldn't mind if it did. I just recognize that this has a very obvious explanation that doesn't substantiate Sakurai secretly hating the series.

I recall everyone used to say Sakurai didn't take Metroid seriously, that he even spited it and hated Ridley. After Ultimate it's hard to buy into this argument anymore. Yes it was after substantial fan pushback, but Sakurai has gone on record several times over to explain that he wanted to add Ridley but couldn't make it work. In the meantime we saw a new character in ZSS, Ridley imagined as a boss twice over to acknowledge his inarguable significance. Zelda is at a similar crossroads, one where the characters can consistently be updated to fit the trajectory of the series but no additional supporting character has felt "right" yet. Maybe if we make our voices heard we can change their mind? But it's not productive to pretend it's an inherent bias, when it's not.

The only series I'd genuinely accept someone saying Sakurai doesn't care about is Sonic, lol. Even in my own frustration about the way one my favorite series, Punch-Out, is treated I recognize the effort that has gone into Little Mac's expansive alternate costumes, Doc Louis appearing in victory poses and so forth.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but we could be making Fortnight money!"

I'm pretty sure that requires going to more lengths than just adding Goku. Ones Nintendo doesn't want to take. Like Smash being multiplat.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think the thing with Zelda is that since its a game based around exploring and adventuring the devs figure it makes more sense to represent the series via locations rather than characters.

Especially since the main cast of the series is already in.

 

[Sucumbio]

Xenoblade/FE priority over Zelda/Kirby/DK despite the latter being longer and just as if not more consistent in the releases is a nonsencial decision.

Not really. They're two different types of games. Kirby Zelda and DK have the same bread and butter characters every game. Xenoblade and FE have new characters every game. So this reinforces the notion that adding new content to smash is prioritized by new characters not by digging through old titles looking for "who's missing". Kirby prolly gets BWD and that's it. Zelda tbh just gets the same trifecta and DK gets Dixie.

 

[NintenZ]

And they will have every right to do

Xenoblade/FE priority over Zelda/Kirby/DK despite the latter being longer and just as if not more consistent in the releases is a nonsencial decision.

Doesn't help to dissuade the Bias rumors/Anime Swordsman/Lack of variety rumors either.

I'm pretty sure it's just release strategy timing and nothing to do with them being more successful or anything, Sakurai has previously stated on numerous occasions he thinks there are too many Fire Emblem characters, and the only reason we got Byleth was he was a Nintendo mandate.

 

[Louie G.]

I can't help but feel like we may be jumping the gun on Xenoblade anyway. I'd wait to see what happens next game before we can call this a pattern.

Otherwise, Pyra and Mythra are simply more popular than Mio and/or Noah. I won't doubt that Xenoblade 3 is a great game, fans seemed to really enjoy it, but the cast of Xenoblade 2 caused more of a splash and seem to have longer persisting popularity. And I'm going to assume that if Xenoblade 2 was too late to make it into base game Ultimate, any new Xenoblade game being produced over the next few years will meet the same fate.

Shulk was added through more of an instant cult classic status, Pyra / Mythra were added because they were very popular characters that people were asking for (give or take Rex). Many people put Xenoblade 3 on their rosters because... it's new. I'm not saying that it definitely won't get another character, but I'm asking people to maybe give it a little more thought than that.

Also? Mio isn't even a sword user. I suspect that might be what Sakurai goes with if he does want to add someone from Xenoblade 3, for the sake of variety and avoiding the pitfall that Fire Emblem has been so long scrutinized for. Everyone is going doomer on the same kind of scenarios repeating themselves but I think this is outright a different situation on most fronts.

 

[NintenZ]

I can't help but feel like we may be jumping the gun on Xenoblade anyway. I'd wait to see what happens next game before we can call this a pattern.

Otherwise, Pyra and Mythra are simply more popular than Mio and/or Noah. I won't doubt that Xenoblade 3 is a great game, fans seemed to really enjoy it, but the cast of Xenoblade 2 caused more of a splash and seem to have longer persisting popularity. And I'm going to assume that if Xenoblade 2 was too late to make it into base game Ultimate, any new Xenoblade game being produced over the next few years will meet the same fate.

Shulk was added through more of an instant cult classic status, Pyra / Mythra were added because they were very popular characters that people were asking for (give or take Rex). Many people put Xenoblade 3 on their rosters because... it's new. I'm not saying that it definitely won't get another character, but I'm asking people to maybe give it a little more thought than that.

I'm big in the Xenoblade fandom and I don't feel that way at all personally, Xenoblade 3's cast has defenitely caused a big impact amongst fans and are very popular, I've been to a couple of conventions and seen cosplays of the characters and art prints, plus the game got several year-end accolades including Game of the Year, if this is being implied to be a fad I disagree I think the game and cast is genuinely popular amongst people, even if part of it is recency bias.

I should also add, I think we're pretty far away from a potential successor all things considered.

 

[fogbadge]

I can't help but feel like we may be jumping the gun on Xenoblade anyway. I'd wait to see what happens next game before we can call this a pattern.

Otherwise, Pyra and Mythra are simply more popular than Mio and/or Noah. I won't doubt that Xenoblade 3 is a great game, fans seemed to really enjoy it, but the cast of Xenoblade 2 caused more of a splash and seem to have longer persisting popularity. And I'm going to assume that if Xenoblade 2 was too late to make it into base game Ultimate, any new Xenoblade game being produced over the next few years will meet the same fate.

Shulk was added through more of an instant cult classic status, Pyra / Mythra were added because they were very popular characters that people were asking for (give or take Rex). Many people put Xenoblade 3 on their rosters because... it's new. I'm not saying that it definitely won't get another character, but I'm asking people to maybe give it a little more thought than that.

Also? Mio isn't even a sword user. I suspect that might be what Sakurai goes with if he does want to add someone from Xenoblade 3, for the sake of variety and avoiding the pitfall that Fire Emblem has been so long scrutinized for. Everyone is going doomer on the same kind of scenarios repeating themselves but I think this is outright a different situation on most fronts.

you forgot sakurai being in love with them

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I dont think Xenoblade 3 will get a character though, probably the next games protagonist.

3 will end up like X and be ignored for newcomer spot.

 

[HyperSomari64]

you forgot sakurai being in love with them

Are you implying that He has a Pyra/Mythra Body Pillow?
Dude, that's gross. /j

 

[Perkilator]

IDK, Xenoblade 3 is the most successful entry yet and was big enough to be nominated for Game of the Year despite not winning anything at the Game Awards that year which I will forever be salty about so I think it's big enough that Sakurai will at least give the game some level of thought as to how to faithfully translate one of its characters to Smash.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Fire Emblem is 2 years older than Kirby, what do you mean the latter is "longer"?

Do you mean that Kirby has more games?

Well if you don't count ports and Spin off FE actually have more games than Kirby either way, it's just that Kirby have a lot of spin-off. There's 17 mainline FE games and 13 mainline Kirby.

I can't help but feel like we may be jumping the gun on Xenoblade anyway. I'd wait to see what happens next game before we can call this a pattern.

Otherwise, Pyra and Mythra are simply more popular than Mio and/or Noah. I won't doubt that Xenoblade 3 is a great game, fans seemed to really enjoy it, but the cast of Xenoblade 2 caused more of a splash and seem to have longer persisting popularity. And I'm going to assume that if Xenoblade 2 was too late to make it into base game Ultimate, any new Xenoblade game being produced over the next few years will meet the same fate.

Shulk was added through more of an instant cult classic status, Pyra / Mythra were added because they were very popular characters that people were asking for (give or take Rex). Many people put Xenoblade 3 on their rosters because... it's new. I'm not saying that it definitely won't get another character, but I'm asking people to maybe give it a little more thought than that.

Also? Mio isn't even a sword user. I suspect that might be what Sakurai goes with if he does want to add someone from Xenoblade 3, for the sake of variety and avoiding the pitfall that Fire Emblem has been so long scrutinized for. Everyone is going doomer on the same kind of scenarios repeating themselves but I think this is outright a different situation on most fronts.

I get where you coming from, but I don't really agree. If anything the Xenoblade 3 cast is probably far more popular than 2, Rex is still hated a lot today because he's seen as a generic Shonen protagonist and is portrayal in 3 was super controversial, and Pyra/Mythra also had very controversial design to the point that I sometimes see people say that they are to blame to 3 lower sales compared to 2. I think it helps also that Xenoblade 3 protagonist have a lot of cool moveset potential with the ouroboros stuff and the abilities to wear other weapons. Unless Smash 6 takes so long that we see another Xeno title before is announcement, I think Noah/Mio will stay strong candidates for first party characters.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Are you implying that He has a Pyra/Mythra Body Pillow?
Dude, that's gross. /j

Im pretty sure it's that Sakurai has a few pieces of Pyra merch.

 

[fogbadge]

Are you implying that He has a Pyra/Mythra Body Pillow?
Dude, that's gross. /j

I meant shulk

 

[Louie G.]

I'm big in the Xenoblade fandom and I don't feel that way at all personally, Xenoblade 3's cast has defenitely caused a big impact amongst fans and are very popular, I've been to a couple of conventions and seen cosplays of the characters and art prints, plus the game got several year-end accolades including Game of the Year, if this is being implied to be a fad I disagree I think the game and cast is genuinely popular amongst people, even if part of it is recency bias.

That's fair, I'm definitely not implying it to be a fad. I'm just saying in the context of Smash speculation, people have a tendency to slap the newest characters on their roster and assume that's just the way things are going to go and we can't help it. I don't doubt the popularity of those characters, or their moveset potential, and just as well they could be added to the game.

It probably wasn't right of me to make the comparison between Pyra / Mythra and Mio / Noah, but I was just going off what I've observed and the way Pyra and Mythra feel more heavily "canonized" as iconic RPG characters longterm. As a relative outsider, Xenoblade 2's impact has appeared more widely felt and really hasn't eased up very much over the course of five years. I confess that could definitely just be me being ignorant and not paying attention, and Xenoblade 3 is much newer so it just hasn't had the time to display that same longevity yet.

But the bottom line is that Shulk and Pyra / Mythra have unique reasons to be on the roster, and Mio / Noah probably do as well - whether that's their own individual popularity or as simple as great moveset potential. I'm just getting a little tired of people lumping Xenoblade in with Pokemon or Fire Emblem prematurely, when currently we have no precedent for whether or not it will follow the same rules. Maybe they'll get in on their own merit, maybe they'll miss the boat. I just don't think Xenoblade will get their obligatory reserved seat like those other two. Both of our previous additions have had valid reasons to be included beyond that. Thanks for the insight and sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Noipoi]

And they will have every right to do

Xenoblade/FE priority over Zelda/Kirby/DK despite the latter being longer and just as if not more consistent in the releases is a nonsencial decision.

Look I love Donkey Kong but you can't compare it to the output of something like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade. FE gets a game like every other year, DK is three steps removed from dead at all times.

Tropical Freeze was a decade ago, and it's probably gonna be another decade before the next game. The monkey's on life support. If it weren't for Mario spinoffs he just wouldn't exist.

We were lucky to even get K Rool

 

[Louie G.]

Tropical Freeze was a decade ago, and it's probably gonna be another decade before the next game. The monkey's on life support. If it weren't for Mario spinoffs he just wouldn't exist.

In all fairness, Donkey Kong Country getting a full theme park attraction is pretty damn impressive. And having a major part in the Mario Movie is good too, even if it's not getting games the series is still visible and being acknowledged as a big deal. I agree with your general point, personally I don't see us getting another DK character or needing one - but I don't think DK is on life support. The bottom line for me is that the brand is strong, but the series is dormant. And that's a slumber that will inevitably end at some point, but who knows when that will be.

I do think it's kind of funny, not really in a haha way I'm actually a little exhausted by it, that we need to keep pretending DK is in a disadvantaged state in Smash. We got a fantastic glow up in Ultimate, the main thing I'd advocate for is a better stage selection but otherwise it's cool. I like Dixie Kong but I find it kind of ironic that FE and Xenoblade are taking heat for being derivative when... you know.

Imagine if we lived in a world where people were saying we had "too many monkeys" in Smash? I kinda want to see that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What do you guys think the new spirit event will be?

something of a recent first party game like Xenoblade 3, Splatoon 3 (need Deep Cut pls ) or ToTK?
Maybe something of a recent popular third party game on Switch?

maybe… revisiting a scrapped spirit idea? (Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps come to mind esp since the former got added to NSO last week)

or maybe even something completely out of left field like with Warframe?

 

[Noipoi]

In all fairness, Donkey Kong Country getting a full theme park attraction is pretty damn impressive. And having a major part in the Mario Movie is good too, even if it's not getting games the series is still visible and being acknowledged as a big deal. I agree with your general point, personally I don't see us getting another DK character or needing one - but I don't think DK is on life support. The bottom line for me is that the brand is strong, but the series is dormant. And that's a slumber that will inevitably end at some point, but who knows when that will be.

Donkey Kong is too big a mascot to just never get another game, I'll hold to that 100%.

I just think my grandkids will be having their quinceaneras by the time it comes

I do think it's kind of funny, not really in a haha way I'm actually a little exhausted by it, that we need to keep pretending DK is in a disadvantaged state in Smash. We got a fantastic glow up in Ultimate, the main thing I'd advocate for is a better stage selection but otherwise it's cool. I like Dixie Kong I find it kind of ironic that FE and Xenoblade are taking heat for being derivative when... you know.

Imagine if we lived in a world where people were saying we had "too many monkeys" in Smash? I kinda want to see that.

Yeah, DK doesn't really need much in terms of representation. I think Dixie as an echo, while not required, would be a really nice addition to sort of wrap up the characters. And like you said, better stage selection and maybe Rambi as an AT.

 

[Stratos]

Will the next Donkey Kong game have King K. Rool or a new enemy?

 

[NintenZ]

I'm gonna be honest I don't really think DK needs that many characters? The only real link that's missing is Dixie, I think it's fine otherwise.

You could do Cranky or Funky Kong, but I don't think either of them are essential. Everyone seems so focused on just numbers.

 

[Noipoi]

Will the next Donkey Kong game have King K. Rool or a new enemy?

I hope it's K Rool. He's one of my favorite gaming villains of all time. Nintendo themselves have acknowledged his fanbase, and he's way overdue for a comeback.

The Tikis were just boring, no real personality to any of them except Tiki Tong himself. The Snowmads were way better as a group, but Lord Frederick wasn't too interesting.

The Kremlings are just the best villains for Donkey Kong imo, and they haven't been topped. They're funny, they're versatile, K Rool is amazing, and we need them back.

So you know it'll be evil groundhogs, or something

 

[Louie G.]

I think K. Rool will return after such an incredible showing of love in Smash. I feel like Nintendo genuinely did not know how many people deeply cared about this character until those ballot numbers came in and when we all screamed in excitement at the end of that presentation. Now with K. Rool arguably being up there with the most popular characters in the game, it's hard to deny. He's likely doubled his existing fanbase.

I'm still one of those guys who thinks it was a missed opportunity not to bring him back in Tropical Freeze. Viking K. Rool would have been an amazing and deeply fitting new persona for him to take on. That being said, I'm grateful for it now because Smash was able to bring him back in such a glorious way and take new liberties to make him a stronger character than ever. I think it's been long enough and that popularity is demonstrably there where K. Rool will at least see some kind of role in the next DKC game, and in the context of Smash assure his longevity as DK's ultimate rival.

 

[Noipoi]

What do you guys think the new spirit event will be?

something of a recent first party game like Xenoblade 3, Splatoon 3 (need Deep Cut pls ) or ToTK?
Maybe something of a recent popular third party game on Switch?

maybe… revisiting a scrapped spirit idea? (Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps come to mind esp since the former got added to NSO last week)

or maybe even something completely out of left field like with Warframe?

Either spirits for recent games like Splatoon 3, Pokemon S/V, Mario Wonder, and so on. Or something special, like spirit events for Smash 64.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm gonna be honest I don't really think DK needs that many characters? The only real link that's missing is Dixie, I think it's fine otherwise.

You could do Cranky or Funky Kong, but I don't think either of them are essential. Everyone seems so focused on just numbers.

Yeah honestly even as someone who's not a huge FE fan and I kind of agree that there's a lot of FE in the roster, the thing is that you can't deny that FE just has way more choices than DK either way. Like you said, aside from Dixie there really isn't that many amazing choices left from DK. You could make a small case for Cranky and Funky, but nobody would seriously bring stuff like the Tropical freeze main antagonist. If we would be looking at numbers alone we would be here rambling that Wii fit doesn't have 10 character. On the other hand, despite already having a lot of character, there's still some fan demands for FE characters.

In the Source gaming mega Smash poll of 2022, there was 5 DK characters (Dixie, Cranky, Funky, Lanky and DK Jr.), with the first 3 being in the top 200. There was 20 FE characters (Lyn, Edelgard, Hector, Anna, Camilla, Celica, Black knight, Loki, "New FE protag", Alm, Donnel, Tiki, Ashnard, Julia, Alm and Celica (duo), Bernadetta, Eirika, Sigurd, Claude and Micaihah), with the first 6 being in the top 200.

 

[Geno Boost]

Which western game rep do you feel are the most likely ones? In my case are crash bandicoot, jonesy and dovahkiin.

I think Crash, Tetromino, Rayman, Doom Slayer, Scorpion and Angry Bird

I'm gonna be honest I don't really think DK needs that many characters? The only real link that's missing is Dixie, I think it's fine otherwise.

You could do Cranky or Funky Kong, but I don't think either of them are essential. Everyone seems so focused on just numbers.

there is Donkey Kong Jr. as well he has his own games and still appearing in modern games in some way

Nintendo REALLY doesnt want their guys fighing Goku

ngl from business point of view if Goku gets in that’s gonna print so much money for Nintendo the closest thing we got is that Akira toriyama characters are in smash because of Dragon Quest

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Kirby Zelda and DK have the same bread and butter characters every game. Xenoblade and FE have new characters every game. So this reinforces the notion that adding new content to smash is prioritized by new characters not by digging through old titles looking for "who's missing". Kirby prolly gets BWD and that's it. Zelda tbh just gets the same trifecta and DK gets Dixie.

Yeah, Xenoblade and FE are only franchises ever to have new characters each game.

Kirby: Magalor, Dark Matter, Susie, Tarzana, Gooey, Adeline etc

Zelda: Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Tingle, Midna, Impa etc

DK: Dixie, Cranky, Funky, the Animal Friends etc

Potential Candidates. These characters just don't exist apparently. Kirby could definitely use some villains and before some wise guy chimes in, Meta and DDD do not count at all.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I meant shulk

Meaning that Sak has a Shulk Dakimakura lying down on his bedroom secret room with the Dragon King prototype and other stuff nobody cares.