Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

At least it wasn’t Spring Man or Rex. Minmin and Pyra were somewhat surprising picks comparatively speaking.

relying on surprise factor is silly

 

[chocolatejr9]

At least it wasn’t Spring Man or Rex. Minmin and Pyra were somewhat surprising picks comparatively speaking.

Actually, a lot of people figured it'd be Min Min once an Arms fighter was announced... mostly because Spring Man was already an Assist Trophy.

 

[Gengar84]

Actually, a lot of people figured it'd be Min Min once an Arms fighter was announced... mostly because Spring Man was already an Assist Trophy.

That’s a good point, I forgot about that. Any reason most people didn’t guess Ribbon Girl? I assumed she was the female protagonist and counterpart to Spring Man. I never played Arms to be fair though so I’m just making baseless assumptions.

 

[fogbadge]

That’s a good point, I forgot about that. Any reason most people didn’t guess Ribbon Girl? I assumed she was the female protagonist and counterpart to Spring Man. I never played Arms to be fair though so I’m just making baseless assumptions.

min min was the most popular character (as far as we could tell) so that was the best thing we had to go on

 

[Gengar84]

min min was the most popular character (as far as we could tell) so that was the best thing we had to go on

That makes sense. It seemed like it was between her and Twintelle for popularity and Twintelle would have been a weird character to represent Arms, being the only fighter that doesn’t actually fight with her arms.

 

[fogbadge]

That makes sense. It seemed like it was between her and Twintelle for popularity and Twintelle would have been a weird character to represent Arms, being the only fighter that doesn’t actually fight with her arms.

that’s not quite true mechanica doesn’t use her arms

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Do you mean that the decision on which newcomer characters will come in future games of the Super Smash Bros. series should Nintendo decide for itself and not accept it from the fans?

Yeah basically. Character support would be useless. Revenue and Sales Numbers will be key factor

 

[chocolatejr9]

That makes sense. It seemed like it was between her and Twintelle for popularity and Twintelle would have been a weird character to represent Arms, being the only fighter that doesn’t actually fight with her arms.

FWIW, at least part of the reason why Twintelle was so speculated (aside from her own popularity) was... a side effect of the Black Lives Matter movement. It made people realize that Smash was SERIOUSLY lacking in POC fighters, and when they realized that Arms had a character that could help remedy that, they jumped in to her support.

As you can probably imagine, those people were NOT happy about Min Min...

(Sorry for bringing politics into this, I just figured it was something worth mentioning).

 

[Geno Boost]

Cool. Speaking of mods, have you seen this yet?

You would think the ULTIMATE SMASH game would be played for much longer than that and not dropped like a rock. Yet Brawl and Melee and even 64 are still played to this day.



Massively. Sakurai's position, especially how big it has gotten over years with negotiations and contracts, isn't exactly a position you can hire any newbie for and required lots of experience, endurance and patience. The reason why Sakurai has stuck so long so I don't he will be replaced yet. To the point they would rather port an older title with updates than find a new one like Iwata planned if Sakurai didn't come for Brawl. It's that high level.
At the very best he have an protégé to help and eventually overtime.

On the unlikely chance it didn't happen then you basically say goodbye to fan demanded characters as evident FP1 and 2 exclude characters like Banjo and Sora who were from the ballot. Character picks will become are alot more corporate than it now. Better hope your favs aren't niche in any way and from big hitter, big seller franchise or a recent phenomenon cuz if they aren't any of the above, your toast.

Expect much less Soras, Terrys and Banjos and much more Heros, Blyeths, Min Mins and Pyras. Basically the more generic, less interesting picks.

honestly its hard to imagine anyone else being able to strike good deal with huge 3rd party companies besides Sakurai especially with Square-enix and Disney stuff and willing to take the risk

 

[Sucumbio]

You would think the ULTIMATE SMASH game would be played for much longer than that and not dropped like a rock. Yet Brawl and Melee and even 64 are still played to this day.

I wouldn't say dropped like a rock. BC4 just finished with some great sets, the meta is gelling around amazing technique and smash world tour is full on. Local scenes still get lots of love. Online was always going to be for casuals more than competitive players and I still get matches day or night. It's just a smaller pool than say before Sora. The gsp is still under 11 million for Elite Smash so overall growth of new sales has indeed plateaued. I take this as a sign the next console is sooner than later still think 2024. With a new game by 2026.

 

[fogbadge]

FWIW, at least part of the reason why Twintelle was so speculated (aside from her own popularity) was... a side effect of the Black Lives Matter movement. It made people realize that Smash was SERIOUSLY lacking in POC fighters, and when they realized that Arms had a character that could help remedy that, they jumped in to her support.

As you can probably imagine, those people were NOT happy about Min Min...

(Sorry for bringing politics into this, I just figured it was something worth mentioning).

even though she is a poc

 

[SPEN18]

I don't have a problem with less expected fighters but I'd like there to actually be a good and reasonable justification for the fighter (so not just adding characters explicitly for the sake of the surprise). Duck Hunt and Wii Fit had massive sales so I am okay with those, for example. I don't like that Duck Hunt may have gotten in to fill a slot/quota specifically dedicated to an "NES-era retro surprise" pick (not sure if this was ever totally confirmed), but in the end I am glad that Duck Hunt is represented. In this sense it's possible to agree with a character choice even if your reasons for adding them are different than the actual ones that got them in.
It goes both ways, too; even though I don't want "surprise" picks just for the sake of having a surprise, I also don't want "expected" picks just for the sake of satisfying those who expect them (who do the expecting at their own peril to begin with). Actually most of the picks I advocate for on here are pretty unexpected.

Actually, a lot of people figured it'd be Min Min once an Arms fighter was announced... mostly because Spring Man was already an Assist Trophy.

I mean, I think it was more the fact that they announced it would be an ARMS fighter without revealing the specific choice right away. Why tease the possibility of something different if it was just going to end up being Spring Man? You're right that there was a crowd saying Spring Man's AT somehow disqualified him, though.

 

[PeridotGX]

I did have the number one most downloaded stage in Stage Builder in Ultimate a few times with my Chemical Plant Zone stage, which was really cool as well. I’m probably easily the worst competitive Smash player on these boards though.

Wait, I have a Chemical Plant stage on my Smash Ultimate. Would you mind sharing what yours looks like?

 

[Diddy Kong]

FWIW, at least part of the reason why Twintelle was so speculated (aside from her own popularity) was... a side effect of the Black Lives Matter movement. It made people realize that Smash was SERIOUSLY lacking in POC fighters, and when they realized that Arms had a character that could help remedy that, they jumped in to her support.

As you can probably imagine, those people were NOT happy about Min Min...

(Sorry for bringing politics into this, I just figured it was something worth mentioning).

This subject shouldn't be "politics". This is what I seriously hate, equal representation isn't "politics" it's an issue within society as a whole. Calling it "politics" just pushes the problem away up higher , to people who don't give a damn anyway.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This subject shouldn't be "politics". This is what I seriously hate, equal representation isn't "politics" it's an issue within society as a whole. Calling it "politics" just pushes the problem away up higher , to people who don't give a damn anyway.

Sorry, I probably should've used a better term. I didn't mean to give a bad impression.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sorry, I probably should've used a better term. I didn't mean to give a bad impression.

Oh it's no problem at all, just a pet peeve. It was other things today that bugged me more. If anything I'm glad you bought this up. Lack of POC in Smash was part of the reasons also I started to support Impa (Skyward Sword edition) and Anthony Higgs (remember him?). Twintelle would've been my preferred pick too out of the ARMS gang.

 

[Yamat08]

Oh it's no problem at all, just a pet peeve. It was other things today that bugged me more. If anything I'm glad you bought this up. Lack of POC in Smash was part of the reasons also I started to support Impa (Skyward Sword edition) and Anthony Higgs (remember him?). Twintelle would've been my preferred pick too out of the ARMS gang.

I hope you all realize that we're talking about a game where close to half the Fighters aren't even human to begin with.

 

[Ivander]

I hope you all realize that we're talking about a game where close to half the Fighters aren't even human to begin with.

There isn't a issue for asking for more PoC characters, as long as it's not only because they are PoC.

 

[Gengar84]

Wait, I have a Chemical Plant stage on my Smash Ultimate. Would you mind sharing what yours looks like?

Sure thing, someone else actually made a YouTube video of my stage (and made a video edit to give it the correct music).

Here’s my Chemical Plant Zone stage:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

It’s no longer uploaded and my Switch online ran out so I can’t reupload it until I renew my subscription unfortunately.

 

[Sucumbio]

Oh proof of concept! I'm like poc... Palk .....

(No suco that's not a poc that's a youwish )

Oh.

(Think more like...

Spoiler: Why Kate, you're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.

Or...

Yes please!

)

Oh! Ummm

?

 

[Gengar84]

Oh proof of concept! I'm like poc... Palk .....
View attachment 354693

(No suco that's not a poc that's a youwish )

Oh.

(Think more like...

Spoiler: Why Kate, you're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.

View attachment 354694

Or...

View attachment 354695

Yes please!

)

Oh! Ummm


View attachment 354696

?

Lol I have no idea what you’re talking about but I’m always down for some Grobyc. Who doesn’t love robot ninjas who fight with their hair?

 

[Lionfranky]

Yes, I still do.

I could've mistaken TF2. I thought I saw a detailed post about TF2's JP community, but I could've been mistaken and got it mixed up with China and Korea's communities as well as the TF2 community raising 300k for post-earthquake/tsunami relief services for Japan.

Edit: Oh, and maybe because of that rabbit Vtuber playing it.

I remember seeing Japanese Vtuber playing battletoad. So, it's easy to get impression.
Even with age of internet, it's still difficult to measure how popular each series is in certain region.

 

[Sucumbio]

Lol I have no idea what you’re talking about but I’m always down for some Grobyc. Who doesn’t love robot ninjas who fight with their hair?

. proof of concept characters grobyc being a great choice IMHO but the other me is like nah rydia or morrigan and I'm like what about a in between... A tweener .. like Bullet Bill is both beautiful and strong. Short temper tho tends to fly off the screen.

 

[PeridotGX]

Sure thing, someone else actually made a YouTube video of my stage (and made a video edit to give it the correct music).

Here’s my Chemical Plant Zone stage:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

It’s no longer uploaded and my Switch online ran out so I can’t reupload it until I renew my subscription unfortunately.

Yep, that's the Chemical Plant on my Switch! The world can be really small sometimes. It's a pretty cool stage, I get why it became popular.

 

[Sucumbio]

Wait he found your stage on the switch online thing? Dude that's awesome.

 

[Gengar84]

Yep, that's the Chemical Plant on my Switch! The world can be really small sometimes. It's a pretty cool stage, I get why it became popular.

Thanks, it was a ton of fun to make. I’m glad you liked it. I loved making so many Stage Builder stages but that was my only one that ever really became popular. I made a TETRIS stage that actually functioned properly like a real game where the blocks fell down and filled up the screen but that’s hard to convey in a screenshot so no one ever really tried it. Maybe I’ll renew my membership at some point and reupload my stages.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Various franchises having usable backgrounds for stage builder would be a tremendous get for the next Smash. Maybe one doesn't get a lot of formal Castlevania levels, but then you have all kinds of stuff from the various eras of the series to then make a stage on. Want another DK setting? Hey, here's Bramble Blast for you to go nuts with creatively.

 

[Gengar84]

Various franchises having usable backgrounds for stage builder would be a tremendous get for the next Smash. Maybe one doesn't get a lot of formal Castlevania levels, but then you have all kinds of stuff from the various eras of the series to then make a stage on. Want another DK setting? Hey, here's Bramble Blast for you to go nuts with creatively.

Yeah, there’s definitely a ton of room to improve Stage Builder. I do wish we had a lot more background options for starters. The ability to be able to change your spawn points and change the color of materials would help a lot too.

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah, there’s definitely a ton of room to improve Stage Builder. I do wish we had a lot more background options for starters. The ability to be able to change your spawn points and change the color of materials would help a lot too.

I used to recreate my favorite levels from mgs and Castlevania lol

 

[Quillion]

Yeah, there’s definitely a ton of room to improve Stage Builder. I do wish we had a lot more background options for starters. The ability to be able to change your spawn points and change the color of materials would help a lot too.

We could also have the little "props" from Brawl's Stage Builder back. There's only so much you can do drawing with flat layers.

 

[Sucumbio]

We could also have the little "props" from Brawl's Stage Builder back. There's only so much you can do drawing with flat layers.

admittedly I've never used a stage builder beyond vbrawl

 

[Gengar84]

We could also have the little "props" from Brawl's Stage Builder back. There's only so much you can do drawing with flat layers.

That’s true too. I missed those props from Brawl. I hope the next Smash takes the best parts of Brawl and Ultimate’s Stage Builder and builds on top of that. Smash 4’s just seemed worse than Ultimate’s in every way from what little I remember about it.

Ideally, I wish we could make stages that could pass off as official stages but I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. I have no idea what that would really entail but it would probably be way too much work both on the developer and user end. Still fun to dream about though.

 

[PeridotGX]

Yeah, there’s definitely a ton of room to improve Stage Builder. I do wish we had a lot more background options for starters. The ability to be able to change your spawn points and change the color of materials would help a lot too.

considering the backgrounds are just .PNGs, I don't get why they didn't let you choose any stage to be the background. Sure, some would be a bit useless or redundant, but the additional flexibility would have been nice. Additionally, there's a really useless playlist feature in the game. It would be really beneficial if you could assign a playlist to a given stage, sometimes it can be really annoying hearing the same song on loop.

 

[Yamat08]

Oh proof of concept! I'm like poc... Palk .....
View attachment 354693

(No suco that's not a poc that's a youwish )

Oh.

(Think more like...

Spoiler: Why Kate, you're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.

View attachment 354694

Or...

View attachment 354695

Yes please!

)

Oh! Ummm


View attachment 354696

?

Is that the best Final Fantasy girl I spot?

 

[dream1ng]

People tend to hold Smash accountable for highlighting the industry-wide issue of skewed ethnicities in gaming, when Smash only ever aspired to reflect the heights of Nintendo and the heights of the (let's be honest, Japanese) gaming industry.

I think it's missing the forest for the trees. It's like getting mad at the hall of fame rather than how the sport is run. Or when people got mad at the Oscars despite the entire film industry giving certain types of people far fewer opportunities. I think it's easier to aim the hotseat at a figurehead which exists to reflect a wider entity than tackle the much bigger, often somewhat ambiguous and daunting full picture, even though that's actual root of the concern which informs the product in question.

I think there's should be a more equal footing among representation in games, and I think that's slowly turning around, but I don't think it's Smash's obligation to not be a meritocracy in order to facilitate that - I think it's on the industry to provide a pool of characters wherein Smash can remain being a meritocracy, and yet the human/human-like characters that get included reflect greater variation in that aspect because the bank from which they are selected innately provides a good chance of them being shaded different than the last.

But if people want to support a character for reasons important to them, that's their prerogative. There are several qualities more important to me than skin color, but that won't hold true for everyone.

However, a resulting problem comes when people expect Smash to share their priorities, well-intended as they might be. Smash operates the way it operates, and while you can hope for the best, and support who you want, you do also have to work under their framework. To that end, the best way of getting a fighter in, regardless of the motivation behind it, is to try and cultivate momentum behind that specific character, and hope it snowballs. It's not to appeal to an umbrella category like "PoC" or "female" or "villain" or "western" or "indie", because that doesn't work.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Character support would be useless. Revenue and Sales Numbers will be key factor

Then why Tetris Block isn't still in Smash?!

 

[Yamat08]

People tend to hold Smash accountable for highlighting the industry-wide issue of skewed ethnicities in gaming, when Smash only ever aspired to reflect the heights of Nintendo and the heights of the (let's be honest, Japanese) gaming industry.

Speaking of which, it's worth considering that Japan is composed of mostly light-skinned people itself. Black people are such an extreme minority over there that the concept of them is literally foreign to most of the population (notice how your average black person in anime is a stereotype of American culture more than anything).

(Following video contains strong language)

Worst black guy in a japanese dub ever

From Black Heaven episode 10.

www.youtube.com

 

[Quillion]

Speaking of which, it's worth considering that Japan is composed of mostly light-skinned people itself. Black people are such an extreme minority over there that the concept of them is literally foreign to most of the population (notice how your average black person in anime is a stereotype of American culture more than anything).

(Following video contains strong language)

Worst black guy in a japanese dub ever

From Black Heaven episode 10.

www.youtube.com

What about Barrett from FF7, aka pretty much Mr. T?

 

[Yamat08]

What about Barrett from FF7, aka pretty much Mr. T?

A.K.A. an American celebrity.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That intro to the Capcom Showcase really shows who Capcom thinks its most iconic characters are.

Ryu
Monster Hunter
Resident Evil
Phoenix Wright
Arthur
Megaman
Dante