Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Trevenant]

None of us knows that because it's not confirmed.

Don't we lol? If all we can say is it hasn't been recently confirmed then that speaks to how unlikely it really is... That and Sakurai has confirmed it literally several times...

Unless people are trying to convince themselves that the next smash game will bring everyone back and be 10x better than ultimate, then, yeah, it pretty much has been confirmed lol...

The idea of "muh, not necessarily confirmed" just reads off as unlikely as crud scenario that we're trying to make an excuse for still being somewhat plausible... But really, all I can really say is... It is the literal definition of an excuse and not much more... It's also probably worth more hassle than what should be deemed necessary TBH...

That is why I said TBH in the post you quoted, cos although some may not wanna admit it, cuts are gonna happen... Even if we wanna discount Sakurai's quotes, everyone returning is a pretty unreasonable expectation TBH, especially when Ultimate had barely any non smash content at launch outside of spirits and WoL which was a biproduct of getting everyone back...

It's just unreasonable to think they're gonna go and do it again, so even playing it safe is probably too high expectations TBH

 

[Garteam]

The way I see it, there are three viable options when it comes to cuts in the next Smash game:

1. Some characters get cut and don't return.
2. No one gets cut because it's a port of Ultimate.
3. Some characters get cut, but everyone returns through either paid or free post-launch content.

Ultimate's development team went silent when it was revealed that Everyone is Here would be the focus of the game. It's clear Everyone is Here happening (in the base game) was the product of the Switch only being a minor step-up from the Wii U in power, Smash for Wii U already having assets for most of Ultimate's base roster, and the number of characters in the series at that point being small enough to make bringing everyone back in a single development cycle feasible. The stars aligned in such a way that Everyone is Here could be a reality given the practical limitations of game development.

If bringing back 63 unique characters was the peak of the dev team's capacity in ideal conditions, how the hell are they supposed to bring back 82 unique characters when we don't know if the same conditions that let the development team meet 75% of that workload will be present? The reality is Ultimate has shown the peak of what can be realistically accomplished for a Smash game in a three-year development cycle for a new product. The only way around that is to change that development process in some way, such as having the next Smash directly build off Ultimate or drastically expanding post-launch content.

This also isn't considering the logistics of licensing everyone again, but that's a completely different discussion unrelated from the relationship between the roster and development cycle.

 

[DarthEnderX]

**** it, you get a nintendo all star baseball game and you will like it

(....that would actually be rad as hell)

I mean, honestly if any of the Mario sports titles just became Smash titles, that would be rad.

I firmly believe that "Everyone is Here" is here to stay. The fact that it was so important at the beginning of this game leads me to believe that they made sure to secure the rights to Ultimate's newcomers for the long run.

That's kinda been my low-key hope.

Not so much that they secured long-term rights, but that they worked it into the deals that Nintendo always has the right to renew if they're just willing to pay again. Kinda like how Sony is allowed to keep making Spider-Man movies as long as they don't stop making Spider-Man movies.

I'd believe that. I know that Vergeben might be a controversial name to many, but honestly, I feel the guy (or rather whatever his source was) was legit. That said, he did drop a few names, claiming they were at least in discussion but which ultimately never came to fruition, like Ryu Hayabusa.

I would say, he had a legit source up through launch, but didn't know **** about the DLC.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

It shouldn't change genres just because they have to cut some characters. That's just silly, and would alienate people. And if you genuinly believe alienating people from a franchise is the best way to help, then you're in dreamland, because that just means diminishing sales, and considering how much it would cost to make another Smash, especially with said ideas, they might decide it's not worth it in the end if they end up making everyone just not want to play anymore. And I don't believe just because a fanbase is smaller makes it less "toxic" because that's just not true.

I'm just saying that for a new Smash, we shouldn't be expecting sh*t to be the same, but wanting them to change how the game plays at its core just because they're cutting some characters is ridiculous.
personally want break the targets back but eh it ain'thappening.

Those other ideas made other crossovers bank even moreso than Smash rn so I don't really get how sales will just dimish, especially for a strong household established franchise like Smash that still popular. Franchises reinvent the wheel all the times to keep themselves relevant and strong over the years

The Plaftorm fighters has already "perfected" and we already reached the peak and we can't just go down either. A new change can help Smash going forward without feeling downgraded

Even if it wasn't OoC, you're just misconstruing everyone entirely lol. We all know cuts are happening... it's logical lol... So my question is what's with your fixation with it? Taking a quote, when you literally could have used one of the other tens of dozens of times in which Sakurai made the exact same statement, which existed way earlier, weren't hard to find, and if anything could have helped your case, especially if they were used in conjunction with each other... If I had to take a guess, it's so you had a casual way to remind everyone why it's absolutely happening... Why that? Apparently cos you want the smash fandom to shrink... Why that? I have no idea, but it's gonna be a weird reason whatever the case TBH.

This whole idea is just getting bizarre at this point... Not just wanting the fandom to shrink, but... Especially when completely different genres are deemed as likely to even have a chance of occurring, when we have a pretty good idea they're not... You literally said so yourself that smash existed on the basis of a weird idea at Nintendo...

So by your own admission, we could literally also apply that to everyone is here returning... Which isn't gonna happen...

Look, a sequel is what's gonna happen, like smash 4, cuts or no cuts... You're literally on a thread which refers to the game as smash 6, which is a sequel to Ultimate... they're not gonna make a sequel to WoL as a movie to continue the series, when it barely has much to it anyway... We know for a fact a genre change isn't on the cards, so all the ideas you proposed just aren't happening...

If you think that the smash fandom will only shrink if one of the ideas you listed came to fruition, then... the fanbase isn't gonna shrink... cos none of them are happening... And I think most view that as a good thing...Cos why is a smaller fanbase better lol...

That isn't the only quote I used. I also that Sakurai before that Everyone is Here isn't feasible in the long run and that this was his only chance. Like I said before these are just suggestions but some way and somehow Nintendo and Sakurai will have to find way to make the next Smash title more appealing despite the cuts holding them back.

Smaller fanbase is nice but isn't really the point. Regardless what I said before is going to happen. These suggestions are still more likely than Everyone returning. They don't have to be exactly thing but Smash 6 will most likely be a reboot.

Super Smash RPG, if only for more world/character interactions, which is something I think Smash is currently missing.

You think that would be a high priority especially being a crossover. Even Fortnite got that. I've always that a Smash RPG like Kingdom Hearts where you explore the gaming worlds and characters would be awesome. Especially using being 3D Action RPG. Either that or a Warriors game

I know this will piss some folks off, but we have to face facts, and that is Sakurai is looking into the face of the long list of long-time Smasher requests and he barely made a dent.

Also, Ultimate has a huge lack of single player content, and needs it's multiplayer content brought to online. Why can't I play Custom Smash in a lobby? Why is Smashdown only offline? Same with Squad Stike, why offline only? Why is All Star Mode a sham in comparison to previous versions? People are asking for Break The Targets, Boss Rush and Smash Run to return. Why is WoL the longest Spirit Board/Event Matches with nearly nothing else for substance? We are still missing beloved stages and tracks as well, and there was a distinct priority to bring back the old instead of really create new, so having some more brand new stages and tracks added in would be pretty sweet. Make the unbelievable lists that are just Magical Christmas Land levels of wish-granting come true. Lets make it so friends can do Team Battles with Mario and Luigi vs Wario and Waluigi; Make it so you can do Squad Strike and have Team 'Magic N' Swords' with Hero, Robin and Isaac; Let Square just dominate so Geno can fight Sora, Sephiroth and Cloud at the same time. Dude, if you drop Dixie, 8-Player Smash on teams could have Team Rare vs Team Square! Let people flip the bird to Death Battle and judge the climax themselves with Bayonetta vs Dante, or see who is the better space marine with Doom Guy vs Master Chief, or have the platformer battle royal with Crash tossing Wumpas at Mario, Sonic and Megaman...and then bump it up with DK, Rayman, Kirby and Yoshi.

The last thing Smash needs to do right now is go backwards and take from us, because it has yet to truly deliver upon it's promise due to it's timing, rushed development, and lack of delays.

All that stuff you mentioned could easily be added through a stream of updates and as I much I would for that to happen, if they want to do it then they would've done from the start. None of the additions except possibly stages and tracks really warrants an Ultimate Deluxe.

Honestly having a Deluxe just for those sounds really scummy as most could been added base game.

You're right, Smash shouldn't go backwards but an unfeasible, very costly Deluxe isn't going to solve that issue. There are still many ways Smash go without going backwards. Already mentioned the many ways which that is possible.

Don't we lol? If all we can say is it hasn't been recently confirmed then that speaks to how unlikely it really is... That and Sakurai has confirmed it literally several times...

Unless people are trying to convince themselves that the next smash game will bring everyone back and be 10x better than ultimate, then, yeah, it pretty much has been confirmed lol...

The idea of "muh, not necessarily confirmed" just reads off as unlikely as crud scenario that we're trying to make an excuse for still being somewhat plausible... But really, all I can really say is... It is the literal definition of an excuse and not much more... It's also probably worth more hassle than what should be deemed necessary TBH...

That is why I said TBH in the post you quoted, cos although some may not wanna admit it, cuts are gonna happen... Even if we wanna discount Sakurai's quotes, everyone returning is a pretty unreasonable expectation TBH, especially when Ultimate had barely any non smash content at launch outside of spirits and WoL which was a biproduct of getting everyone back...

It's just unreasonable to think they're gonna go and do it again, so even playing it safe is probably too high expectations TBH

This really. All this rebuttal to cuts just seem like that denial. Sakurai wouldn't even bothered mentioning cuts or the strains of Everyone is Here if he knew that getting them back is a piece of cake.

It is what it is.

 

[Trevenant]

Those other ideas made other crossovers bank even moreso than Smash rn so I don't really get how sales will just dimish, especially for a strong household established franchise like Smash that still popular. Franchises reinvent the wheel all the times to keep themselves relevant and strong over the years

The Plaftorm fighters has already "perfected" and we already reached the peak and we can't just go down either. A new change can help Smash going forward without feeling downgraded



That isn't the only quote I used. I also that Sakurai before that Everyone is Here isn't feasible in the long run and that this was his only chance. Like I said before these are just suggestions but some way and somehow Nintendo and Sakurai will have to find way to make the next Smash title more appealing despite the cuts holding them back.

Smaller fanbase is nice but isn't really the point. Regardless what I said before is going to happen. These suggestions are still more likely than Everyone returning. They don't have to be exactly thing but Smash 6 will most likely be a reboot.



You think that would be a high priority especially being a crossover. Even Fortnite got that. I've always that a Smash RPG like Kingdom Hearts where you explore the gaming worlds and characters would be awesome. Especially using being 3D Action RPG. Either that or a Warriors game



All that stuff you mentioned could easily be added through a stream of updates and as I much I would for that to happen, if they want to do it then they would've done from the start. None of the additions except possibly stages and tracks really warrants an Ultimate Deluxe.

Honestly having a Deluxe just for those sounds really scummy as most could been added base game.

You're right, Smash shouldn't go backwards but an unfeasible, very costly Deluxe isn't going to solve that issue. There are still many ways Smash go without going backwards. Already mentioned the many ways which that is possible.



This really. All this rebuttal to cuts just seem like that denial. Sakurai wouldn't even bothered mentioning cuts or the strains of Everyone is Here if he knew that getting them back is a piece of cake.

It is what it is.

Yeah but the reboot isn't gonna cut everyone lol...

And you just shoehorned in mentions of how it was absolutely confirmed which were literally bait at it's finest.

The smash series isn't gonna get smaller lol. If that's your wish, and that's why you're suggesting stuff like a movie on a thread that's made on the basis of the next entry being a game that you have some weird fixation with reminding everyone that cuts are happening despite how I've literally pointed out to you that everyone knows that, then IDK, you're just best off not wishing for such a bizarre thing...

Others will always pick up smash even if others don't, so the amount lost will be marginally small in comparison..

I don't think you'd want it to shrink to try and stem the toxicity so what is your excuse? It won't happen, when we end up getting a game where most of the vets return even if a few get cut, or even in the very very unlikely scenario we end up getting some crud like a movie, but why would you want the fandom to shrink?

That's why these nonsense suggestions are being proposed, even after you literally said you don't like viewing smash as some hall of fame yet all these ridiculous suggestions say otherwise... this site was all made on the basis of smash's gameplay... with the characters being represented distinctly in a way that represented the characters in question...

If you didn't view it as some giant hall of fame with not much more to it, then why are things like a movie you'd rather entertain the possibility of rather than playing the game?

And to add on to that, why do you want smash to get smaller by completely abandoning the gameplay lol? When you literally said you don't like viewing smash as a giant hall of fame lol, which should lead one to assume that you like it's gameplay if not lol?

It's clear that these are just poorly planned out attempts at bait and trolling lol. IDK why, especially since trolls mainly use sock puppet accounts, but these are definitely just really bad attempts at bait nonetheless lol.

It's just weird lol. Creating an account to say FE has too much rep for the billionth time would have probably been better than this at this rate lol.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Creating an account to say FE has too much rep for the billionth time would have probably been better than this at this rate lol.

You know, I think some of the people who really hope no one gets cut have also stated that there's too many FE reps...

In that case, shouldn't cuts be fine if it means FE gets reduced to Marth/Ike/Byleth/New Lord?

 

[DarthEnderX]

You know, I think some of the people who really hope no one gets cut have also stated that there's too many FE reps...

In that case, shouldn't cuts be fine if it means FE gets reduced to Marth/Ike/Byleth/New Lord?

No. I hate how many FE characters we have, but no one is served by going backwards. They've already been made at this point. It's not like every FE character you cut gets replaced by another new character.

That said, if we HAVEto have cuts, then they absolutely should start there.

 

[Trevenant]

You know, I think some of the people who really hope no one gets cut have also stated that there's too many FE reps...

In that case, shouldn't cuts be fine if it means FE gets reduced to Marth/Ike/Byleth/New Lord?

Yeah but I was talking in terms of just how often the topics are brought up by trolls lol. Don't wanna start anything new regarding FE rep when it was just an example.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like a lot of people overreact to the amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Roy, Lucina, and Chrom didn’t really take away resources from another character since they are derivative of existing characters. If you look at it in terms of completely unique characters, I don’t feel like there is really much a problem Fire Emblem’s representation. I think the main reason it seems as bad as it is is due to “Everyone is here!”. I don’t think every character was intended to return in every game.

My only real issue is that Smash usually just picks the most recent lord, which tend to be among the least interesting characters in their games in my opinion.

 

[Perkilator]

I feel like a lot of people overreact to the amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Roy, Lucina, and Chrom didn’t really take away resources from another character since they are derivative of existing characters. If you look at it in terms of completely unique characters, I don’t feel like there is really much a problem Fire Emblem’s representation. I think the main reason it seems as bad as it is is due to “Everyone is here!”. I don’t think every character was intended to return in every game.

My only real issue is that Smash usually just picks the most recent lord, which tend to be among the least interesting characters in their games in my opinion.

This is partly why (in my opinion) Azura should've gotten in instead of Corrin if we needed a Fates rep (Wink wink). Sure, she'd still be out 6th FE character, but she'd at least be more unique.

 

[Gengar84]

This is partly why (in my opinion) Azura should've gotten in instead of Corrin if we needed a Fates rep (Wink wink). Sure, she'd still be out 6th FE character, but she'd at least be more unique.

Yeah, I’d have much preferred Azura. I thought Azura was a really cool character and we could use a pole arm user in Smash. To be fair though, Corrin’s moveset in Smash is pretty unique in its own right even if I don’t care about them as characters in Fates.

 

[Sucumbio]

Azura is my player icon in smash. I didn't play Fates yet but her design especially in FEH drew my attention and subsequent fanboyness lol

 

[Gengar84]

Azura is my player icon in smash. I didn't play Fates yet but her design especially in FEH drew my attention and subsequent fanboyness lol

My favorite Fates character is Rinkah. Unfortunately, she never had a real chance to make it into Smash. It’s kind of sad realizing that almost all my favorite characters are side characters that will probably never make it. As far as realistic options go, Azura would have been a great pick.

 

[Trevenant]

My favorite Fates character is Rinkah. Unfortunately, she never had a real chance to make it into Smash. It’s kind of sad realizing that almost all my favorite characters are side characters that will probably never make it. As far as realistic options go, Azura would have been a great pick.

A metroid Rinka tho...

 

[chocolatejr9]

Explore a strange world full of colorful friends and foes as you uncover a forgotten past that will determine your fate... when @OMORI_GAME by @_omocat comes to #NintendoSwitch in Spring 2022! #IndieWorld pic.twitter.com/FLZ3jt1tMP

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) December 15, 2021

I don't care if it's a "recent indie darling", OMORI deserves to be in Smash, and I will not accept ANY criticism.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve got a couple more characters I made support threads for that I’d love to share my ideas for here. The problem is that they’re both Blizzard characters. Given the recent events, I wouldn’t blame anyone if they didn’t want to look at character ideas from that company. I made these before all the controversy with the company. Would you guys be fine with me sharing my ideas or would you rather I not?

 

[Sucumbio]

My favorite Fates character is Rinkah. Unfortunately, she never had a real chance to make it into Smash. It’s kind of sad realizing that almost all my favorite characters are side characters that will probably never make it. As far as realistic options go, Azura would have been a great pick.

Are you a fan of Boris Vallejo by any chance? He seems to be the best of the artists that bring muscular tone and definition to life like no other and yet somehow able to introduce a softness to his visions (his wife is amazing also).

Anyway your pick is awesome! NowI wonder at this point how FEH may play as a role in future FE rep or say chances it'll be anyone from FEH VS the next FE game.

Edit

Always, dear let er rip and then bookmark it so you can reference it whenever it's time to make their thread.

 

[Gengar84]

Are you a fan of Boris Vallejo by any chance? He seems to be the best of the artists that bring muscular tone and definition to life like no other and yet somehow able to introduce a softness to his visions (his wife is amazing also).

Anyway your pick is awesome! NowI wonder at this point how FEH may play as a role in future FE rep or say chances it'll be anyone from FEH VS the next FE game.

Edit

Always, dear let er rip and then bookmark it so you can reference it whenever it's time to make their thread.

I can’t say I’m familiar with him but I’ll gladly look him up later today. I’m actually working on making my own RPG in RPG maker with an artstyle inspired by Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates. I’m not sure if there’s a suitable place on these forums to share my original characters.

So far, we just have a ton of character portraits and a very basic story. My brother and I are trying to flesh everything out but we’re not exactly expert writers so we tend to get stuck a lot.

 

[Sucumbio]

I can’t say I’m familiar with him but I’ll gladly look him up later today. I’m actually working on making my own RPG in RPG maker with an artstyle inspired by Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates. I’m not sure if there’s a suitable place on these forums to share my original characters.

So far, we just have a ton of character portraits and a very basic story. My brother and I are trying to flesh everything out but we’re not exactly expert writers so we tend to get stuck a lot.

Ummm yes. No... kinda? Ugh. So there developers and gaming... In developers it's normally Smash related but at one point during the user group era we had a Zelda fangame (I still have all the assets haha) so but it's not a space in that forum anymore for that so in Gaming it's general anything videogame related so it could be there.

 

[Perkilator]

If WoL had teams for each of the DLC fighters, who would be in which ones? Sora I could see befriending Kirby and Piranha Plant, and Kazuya I could see forming an "alliance" with Sephiroth.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Explore a strange world full of colorful friends and foes as you uncover a forgotten past that will determine your fate... when @OMORI_GAME by @_omocat comes to #NintendoSwitch in Spring 2022! #IndieWorld pic.twitter.com/FLZ3jt1tMP

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) December 15, 2021

I don't care if it's a "recent indie darling", OMORI deserves to be in Smash, and I will not accept ANY criticism.

No because if we get an Omori rep it won’t be Pluto. And that will make me sad.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Explore a strange world full of colorful friends and foes as you uncover a forgotten past that will determine your fate... when @OMORI_GAME by @_omocat comes to #NintendoSwitch in Spring 2022! #IndieWorld pic.twitter.com/FLZ3jt1tMP

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) December 15, 2021

I don't care if it's a "recent indie darling", OMORI deserves to be in Smash, and I will not accept ANY criticism.

Hell yeah
Maybe getting some OMORI content in the next game won't be that far-fetched now.

 

[Gengar84]

Ummm yes. No... kinda? Ugh. So there developers and gaming... In developers it's normally Smash related but at one point during the user group era we had a Zelda fangame (I still have all the assets haha) so but it's not a space in that forum anymore for that so in Gaming it's general anything videogame related so it could be there.

Hmmm… Oh well. It’s no big deal if it isn’t really the right place to share my own personal ideas. My first instinct would have been the Social board if any would have been appropriate.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Don't we lol? If all we can say is it hasn't been recently confirmed then that speaks to how unlikely it really is... That and Sakurai has confirmed it literally several times...

Unless people are trying to convince themselves that the next smash game will bring everyone back and be 10x better than ultimate, then, yeah, it pretty much has been confirmed lol...

The idea of "muh, not necessarily confirmed" just reads off as unlikely as crud scenario that we're trying to make an excuse for still being somewhat plausible... But really, all I can really say is... It is the literal definition of an excuse and not much more... It's also probably worth more hassle than what should be deemed necessary TBH...

That is why I said TBH in the post you quoted, cos although some may not wanna admit it, cuts are gonna happen... Even if we wanna discount Sakurai's quotes, everyone returning is a pretty unreasonable expectation TBH, especially when Ultimate had barely any non smash content at launch outside of spirits and WoL which was a biproduct of getting everyone back...

It's just unreasonable to think they're gonna go and do it again, so even playing it safe is probably too high expectations TBH

Saying it's not confirmed is exactly the way it sounds; nothing is said for sure. Sakurai even made it clear that it's up to Nintendo on how they want it, which is understandable because it is their game after all.

As far as expectation goes, the fact that so many unexpected things happened in these past two games shows that you can't predict what's going to happen in this series. Everyone Is Here was a clear sign from the start that this game wasn't going to be what people predicted and that remained true all the way to the last DLC character. Heck, you sometimes can't even rely on Sakurai's quotes (he seemed to be against the idea of fighting game characters being in Smash, only for Ryu be revealed in that very same game). And you're trying to predict a game that's probably years away? I mean, come on! It's pretty clear that as of right now, nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. Cuts will probably happen but then again, they probably won't. But don't expect Sakurai to confirm something like that this soon.

 

[Sucumbio]

Hmmm… Oh well. It’s no big deal if it isn’t really the right place to share my own personal ideas. My first instinct would have been the Social board if any would have been appropriate.

Actually......

My b I don't visit The general social so little did I think tucked away is the old anc forum yaaay so yeah that's where it goes.

 

[Trevenant]

Saying it's not confirmed is exactly the way it sounds; nothing is said for sure. Sakurai even made it clear that it's up to Nintendo on how they want it, which is understandable because it is their game after all.

As far as expectation goes, the fact that so many unexpected things happened in these past two games shows that you can't predict what's going to happen in this series. Everyone Is Here was a clear sign from the start that this game wasn't going to be what people predicted and that remained true all the way to the last DLC character. Heck, you sometimes can't even rely on Sakurai's quotes (he seemed to be against the idea of fighting game characters being in Smash, only for Ryu be revealed in that very same game). And you're trying to predict a game that's probably years away? I mean, come on! It's pretty clear that as of right now, nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. Cuts will probably happen but then again, they probably won't. But don't expect Sakurai to confirm something like that this soon.

Yeah, but we have Sakurai on record stating that everyone is here probably isn't returning... While I absolutely don't agree with the unnecessary trolling certain other users have been doing regarding the topic, everyone coming back, especially the 24 new characters Ultimate brought on top of that, is just plain unreasonable to say it's likely...

Not only is it better to expect the worst with these things, but in this scenario expecting the worst is the realistic scenario, cos bringing everyone back will probably be way harder than it's worth...

Whilst you could play the crappy "anything could happen" nonsense, I could say that about Goku joining smash lol.

The only reason anything can happen is passed around is when people are trying to defend a scenario which they want to happen, but can't do any better cos it flat out is unrealistic, which is what then prompts them to play that excuse, as it can't be refuted...

Except it can if you analyze the excuse itself, like I just did... We can argue semantics all day, but the reality of the situation is, that it's clear Sakurai is pretty certain that Ultimate is never happening again...

Even if we want to discount Sakurai's word, the mere idea of 89 characters returning in a completely new instalment, at least a quarter of which being third parties, is a little unreasonable to put at anything higher than a 25% chance of re-occurring, right? A port maybe, but even that depends on how the third parties rights were gathered...

 

[Sucumbio]

This reminds me of an old discussion about setting expectations.

Plugging your eyes is like ... I know I'm infuriating but what will you do?

That's why I side with whatever, cause it's going to be fun so I may as well STFU and let people dream. Not that something like the next smash won't be a Game cause that's.... Got all my twitches twitching. Tremendously.

 

[SPEN18]

No. I hate how many FE characters we have, but no one is served by going backwards. They've already been made at this point. It's not like every FE character you cut gets replaced by another new character.

They've been made for Ultimate, but not for the next game. I'm not a developer, but I wouldn't think that remaking vets is really that much easier than making new characters since under a new engine all their mechanics, models, and animations have to be remade and rebalanced anyway; most of the time/work you would save seems to be in the planning and early testing stages. That's just my guess. But even if you can claim that it would take less work to remake a vet than to create a fully new character, cutting a vet is still a great chunk of resources that are freed up to do other things, perhaps better things that make sense right now rather than 10-20 years ago. The "other things" could be another character, especially if you're willing to cut say 2 characters in favor of 1 or something along those lines, or it could be other content that Ultimate was missing. And even if you don't consider the ability to add more characters or content in place of a cut character, there are still other advantages to cutting such as making balancing easier/more effective or, you know, having a compact but still satisfying roster where every character fits in but stands out, and where representation between different series/characters is as fair as is practically possible.

 

[Sucumbio]

They've been made for Ultimate, but not for the next game. I'm not a developer, but I wouldn't think that remaking vets is really that much easier than making new characters since under a new engine all their mechanics, models, and animations have to be remade and rebalanced anyway; most of the time/work you would save seems to be in the planning and early testing stages. That's just my guess. But even if you can claim that it would take less work to remake a vet than to create a fully new character, cutting a vet is still a great chunk of resources that are freed up to do other things, perhaps better things that make sense right now rather than 10-20 years ago. The "other things" could be another character, especially if you're willing to cut say 2 characters in favor of 1 or something along those lines, or it could be other content that Ultimate was missing. And even if you don't consider the ability to add more characters or content in place of a cut character, there are still other advantages to cutting such as making balancing easier/more effective or, you know, having a compact but still satisfying roster where every character fits in but stands out, and where representation between different series/characters is as fair as is practically possible.

I am ok if someone from ultimate doesn't return as playable ever but I suspect each character with a unique play style will be considered for return and to this effect I hope Peach either gets her own moves or drops same with Simon Richter (pls add Alucard Nintendo!) Samus Dark Samus. ... I forget if its other clones lol oh yeah Marth and Lucina , Roy and chrome crom crumb and........ that's it right?

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know, I think some of the people who really hope no one gets cut have also stated that there's too many FE reps...

In that case, shouldn't cuts be fine if it means FE gets reduced to Marth/Ike/Byleth/New Lord?

Why even cut Chrom, Lucina and Roy if we're keeping Marth? Seems like a waste, and all are very popular characters, and don't take up too many resources, thus development time. It's a win win to keep them. I'd honestly make Byleth a more simple character, and give them the mage / swordsman hybrid moveset that Robin has. I honestly also wouldn't object both Dimitri and Edelgard being newcomers, and using assets of Byleth's moveset. Given that Robin and Corrin would be gone, there's no stigma of having too many Fire Emblem characters.

Also I think Everyone Is Here Again is a quite likely concept , cause I highly suspect Ultimate will get ported. If they did it to Mario Kart, I don't think it's above them to do the same for Smash Bros.

 

[Sucumbio]

Why even cut Chrom, Lucina and Roy if we're keeping Marth? Seems like a waste, and all are very popular characters, and don't take up too many resources, thus development time. It's a win win to keep them. I'd honestly make Byleth a more simple character, and give them the mage / swordsman hybrid moveset that Robin has. I honestly also wouldn't object both Dimitri and Edelgard being newcomers, and using assets of Byleth's moveset. Given that Robin and Corrin would be gone, there's no stigma of having too many Fire Emblem characters.

Also I think Everyone Is Here Again is a quite likely concept , cause I highly suspect Ultimate will get ported. If they did it to Mario Kart, I don't think it's above them to do the same for Smash Bros.

Has smash ever been ported?

 

[Trevenant]

This reminds me of an old discussion about setting expectations.

Plugging your eyes is like ... I know I'm infuriating but what will you do?

That's why I side with whatever, cause it's going to be fun so I may as well STFU and let people dream. Not that something like the next smash won't be a Game cause that's.... Got all my twitches twitching. Tremendously.

Yeah, of course, I made sure to acknowledge that as a footnote so as to not make it seem like I think it's invalid or anything... But if we're talking pure semantics, Everyone returning really shouldn't be considered likely TBH, especially after everything Sakurai has said regarding the matter... If we're misconstruing wants with what we deem likely however, that's when stuff like "anything can happen" gets thrown around, which is a pretty defeatist excuse, and is an indicator how unlikely the topic is that it was brought up for...

And in that instance, if the person isn't willing to at least consider the other person's logic, and carries on saying how anything can happen and that you can't refute that, then I don't think they should be partaking in speculation if they're going in with that mentality. In regards to my other point, as said, I'm pretty sure it was purely a semantics point as in, semantics as in, everyone could return, or semantics as in, they could just concede and add Goku... Possible, technically, yeah sure, probable tho, definitely not... If we're not gonna even acknowledge how this could be applied to everything tho, then I think it's pretty obvious what train of thought is better like many people do when the flaws in this logic are pointed out

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why even cut Chrom, Lucina and Roy if we're keeping Marth? Seems like a waste, and all are very popular characters, and don't take up too many resources, thus development time. It's a win win to keep them. I'd honestly make Byleth a more simple character, and give them the mage / swordsman hybrid moveset that Robin has. I honestly also wouldn't object both Dimitri and Edelgard being newcomers, and using assets of Byleth's moveset. Given that Robin and Corrin would be gone, there's no stigma of having too many Fire Emblem characters.

Also I think Everyone Is Here Again is a quite likely concept , cause I highly suspect Ultimate will get ported. If they did it to Mario Kart, I don't think it's above them to do the same for Smash Bros.

The point is that some of the same people who go "please don't cut anyone please don't cut anyone" have also criticised the number of FE reps, making it odd that they would want everyone to return.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Has smash ever been ported?

Iirc Sakurai has considered it in the past, idk for Melee or Brawl but if he considered it it is a possibility

 

[Geno Boost]

weird question but if Dante or Doom Slayer or Tavis Touchdown becomes playable in the next smash would they still censor the title of their games?

 

[Yamat08]

spirits and WoL which was a biproduct of getting everyone back...

That's quite true, actually. The whole idea behind Spirits it that a lot of other characters could be roughly represented through Ultimate's massive roster of fighters and their alts. If Everyone Is Here doesn't happen again, I wonder what would become of the next Smash's gallery mode. I doubt trophies are coming back, and if they do try for Spirits again, they'd be severely gimped if there isn't as big of a roster to pull from. Or maybe we'd get stickers back..... or we'd literally be reduced to collecting JPEGs without any actual function, just a glorified set of achievements.

I feel like a lot of people overreact to the amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Roy, Lucina, and Chrom didn’t really take away resources from another character since they are derivative of existing characters. If you look at it in terms of completely unique characters, I don’t feel like there is really much a problem Fire Emblem’s representation. I think the main reason it seems as bad as it is is due to “Everyone is here!”. I don’t think every character was intended to return in every game.

My only real issue is that Smash usually just picks the most recent lord, which tend to be among the least interesting characters in their games in my opinion.

But even without "Everyone Is Here", Smash4 managed to have 6 Fire Emblem characters, including every veteran. In fact, I think that's where the "too much Fire Emblem" issue began in the first place, and even I can't really condone the way the Fire Emblem representation absolutely exploded within the span of a single Smash entry. Though if we wanna talk about franchises that are amplified by Everyone Is Here, look no further than Pokemon. That's actually quite a huge jump from base game Smash4, not only with Mewtwo returning as DLC, but also the return of both Pichu and Pokemon Trainer (Trainer being a composite of two cut characters and Charizard), while also throwing Incineroar into the mix. Guess that goes to show which franchise has really been most affected by cuts over the years.

Yeah, of course, I made sure to acknowledge that as a footnote so as to not make it seem like I think it's invalid or anything... But if we're talking pure semantics, Everyone returning really shouldn't be considered likely TBH, especially after everything Sakurai has said regarding the matter... If we're misconstruing wants with what we deem likely however, that's when stuff like "anything can happen" gets thrown around, which is a pretty defeatist excuse, and is an indicator how unlikely the topic is that it was brought up for...

And in that instance, if the person isn't willing to at least consider the other person's logic, and carries on saying how anything can happen and that you can't refute that, then I don't think they should be partaking in speculation if they're going in with that mentality. In regards to my other point, as said, I'm pretty sure it was purely a semantics point as in, semantics as in, everyone could return, or semantics as in, they could just concede and add Goku... Possible, technically, yeah sure, probable tho, definitely not... If we're not gonna even acknowledge how this could be applied to everything tho, then I think it's pretty obvious what train of thought is better like many people do when the flaws in this logic are pointed out

But didn't this current argument begin in the first place because Nabbitfan took a muddled public statement from Sakurai as 100% proof that Everyone Is Here is done with? I mean, the pro-EIH side is trying to be optimistic, but I doubt even we're confidently carrying on thinking that the next game WILL have everyon character return again. Instead, the last few pages have been trying to argue how it's not completely unlikely. "Anything can happen" may not be the best argument, but at least it's more open to possibility than a straight-up "It's not happening, deal with it!"

 

[Trevenant]

That's quite true, actually. The whole idea behind Spirits it that a lot of other characters could be roughly represented through Ultimate's massive roster of fighters and their alts. If Everyone Is Here doesn't happen again, I wonder what would become of the next Smash's gallery mode. I doubt trophies are coming back, and if they do try for Spirits again, they'd be severely gimped if there isn't as big of a roster to pull from. Or maybe we'd get stickers back..... or we'd literally be reduced to collecting JPEGs without any actual function, just a glorified set of achievements.


But even without "Everyone Is Here", Smash4 managed to have 6 Fire Emblem characters, including every veteran. In fact, I think that's where the "too much Fire Emblem" issue began in the first place, and even I can't really condone the way the Fire Emblem representation absolutely exploded within the span of a single Smash entry. Though if we wanna talk about franchises that are amplified by Everyone Is Here, look no further than Pokemon. That's actually quite a huge jump from base game Smash4, not only with Mewtwo returning as DLC, but also the return of both Pichu and Pokemon Trainer (Trainer being a composite of two cut characters and Charizard), while also throwing Incineroar into the mix. Guess that goes to show which franchise has really been most affected by cuts over the years.


But didn't this current argument begin in the first place because Nabbitfan took a muddled public statement from Sakurai as 100% proof that Everyone Is Here is done with? I mean, the pro-EIH side is trying to be optimistic, but I doubt even we're confidently carrying on thinking that the next game WILL have everyon character return again. Instead, the last few pages have been trying to argue how it's not completely unlikely. "Anything can happen" may not be the best argument, but at least it's more open to possibility than a straight-up "It's not happening, deal with it!"

Yeah, the argument was prompted by more so the ridiculous ideas of a movie etc being the next entry...

You're right too, but I'll also admit I did agree with what he was saying. Even if they were solely trolling with anything, I do agree...

The thing was that their claims were really flawed, and had tons of inconsistencies which made them read like bait... That's also the problem with taking that Sakurai quote OoC.

My issue is specifically saying it's likely and providing the least infallible logic, cos of how much of a last resort said logic is... It really isn't...

Of course people aren't blindly assuming it's a lock (Well, a few are cos apparently it's "too important to smash" etc, which, it was a marketing gimmick for one game, pokemon cutting the nat-dex proves this doesn't mean anything. That and it's just a basic premise of marketing to have what makes your game summed up in a few words), but eh, I just don't think it should be considered likely, if anything can happen is the best logic that someone can come up with...

That speaks higher volumes of how unlikely something is rather than how likely something is if it's the best thing that can be thought of...

As I said, I'm pretty sure the user I was responding to meant it purely in semantics, so that's why I responded to it as such, but I just don't agree with that ideology being thrown around in speculation... it's irrefutable, and displays the lack of willingness the person is to change viewpoints, aka limiting discussion, cos they used something which is the literal definition of a last ditch attempt...

Last part was more of general rant, but eh...

 

[pupNapoleon]

"We've hit the peak in terms of content" =/= "The next game is going to be a reboot with tons of cuts"

Just because the next game won't have 89 characters at launch doesn't mean it's going to have 40 characters or however large you'd realistically expect a reboot roster to be.

It actually does. What you are saying is the next game is going to be "the same but worse, and a little bit of different content," or "something completely different from the ground up."

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

...I predict that Final Destination will be in the next Smash game.

This might be a really, really crazy take, but truly, I think it's possible.

 

[SPEN18]

Why even cut Chrom, Lucina and Roy if we're keeping Marth?

So we could have other equally or more popular/important characters as clones/echoes that help represent other franchises?

--

I think shaving a couple clones + maybe Corrin off the FE roster could pacify a lot of people for a minimal loss. The core of the FE roster to me should be Marth/Lyn/Ike/Robin + now Byleth. Then add like 1 clone, say Lucina since she's easiest and most memorable, with Awakening being an especially important game for the series (whether or not it's a personal favorite, which it isn't really for me). With these five uniques I feel you get the right blend of popularity and importance to the franchise along with enough variance in playstyles. And five uniques really doesn't feel overboard for a long-running, relevant franchise with a ton of characters to choose from. Also if anyone wants to argue for any of Corrin, Azura, Tiki, Anna, etc. then go for it, but they just miss the cut IMO.