Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

 

[Louie G.]

Do you think Japan isn't that much of roadblock as other people think? During 360 era, Halo did pretty well there. And I listed bunch of stuff that kinda dispels "Halo is unknown in Japan" notion back in day.

I don't, at least not for Master Chief. We have evidence of Halo not being a total unknown in Japan and a mascot as once omnipresent as Chief is sure to be at least passively recognized. And I'd go as far to say I think Halo has more potential for overseas appeal than most of his other FPS contemporaries, futuristic sci-fi is pretty hot everywhere.

It's not 1:1 but I remember a post here akin to "Halo is America's Dragon Quest" which I think is apt.

I could see Crash Bandicoot being chosen before Chief

Agree to disagree, I've got my own personal feelings about Crash and I don't particularly think he is likely. But I will say that Master Chief, being from a new genre of games offers more variety to the series than another platforming mascot. I'm sure Crash could be fun and original but I think Halo would feel like a more compelling series to cross over with Smash and offer something really fresh both in general tone and genre of origin. Which is to say, more importantly, Master Chief appeals to an untapped market and Crash continues to validate the one we already have.

The Microsoft race is definitely between Chief / Crash / Doom though, but personally I think the former has quite a large edge over both. I simply don't think Crash's popularity is massive on the same extent of other third parties that have explicitly gotten in due to fan demand (). He is popular but not stop-everything-you're-doing-and-add-this-character popular. Some of these movements have had years to build up and truck forward and Crash has been a bit of an overnight sensation. I'm not convinced to put him on that level and I think Master Chief is more perpetually relevant and exciting. But at the end of the day sometimes these beliefs are just founded in a gut instinct and that's the core of it here, I really just believe Halo is the way to go and is really not that far behind the demand for Crash either.

Side note, I still suspect Master Chief Collection will end up on the next console. If that's the case then all the non-Nintendo stuff is moot anyway, but I'm choosing not to go into that argument very much because I don't believe it's an issue. He's on the same level as Cloud to me.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

She reminds to that kid Doronjo from Yatterman Night. But considering this was WAY Before that reboot, I don't think who inspired who?

 

[Ivander]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

hears the distant drawing in the far distance

That aside, not as close to Doronjo as I thought it'd be, but the similarities are still there and I can see why they wouldn't risk putting her in.

 

[Gengar84]

While I agree that Halo, Crash, and DOOM are all strong contenders for a Microsoft character and possibly the most likely, I’m going to have to disagree that they are the only viable options. Blizzard’s side offers a ton of great characters that left a huge impact on gaming. I feel like WarCraft was even bigger than Halo and often gets overlooked in these discussions. StarCraft was instrumental in kicking off E-sports and competitive online gaming in general. Then there’s RARE who, while not as universally popular, have really strong ties to Nintendo’s history and have a ton of great characters of their own. Killer Instinct just received an update after 7 years and there are rumors of a new game in development. Not disagreeing that the three most discussed are probably the most likely but I do very much disagree that it has to be one of them.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

While I agree that Halo, Crash, and DOOM are all strong contenders for a Microsoft character and possibly the most likely, I’m going to have to disagree that they are the only viable options. Blizzard’s side offers a ton of great characters that left a huge impact on gaming. I feel like WarCraft was even bigger than Halo and often gets overlooked in these discussions. StarCraft was instrumental in kicking off E-sports and competitive online gaming in general. Then there’s RARE who, while not as universally popular, have really strong ties to Nintendo’s history and have a ton of great characters of their own. Killer Instinct just received an update after 7 years and there are rumors of a new game in development. Not disagreeing that the three most discussed are probably the most likely but I do very much disagree that it has to be one of them.

Honestly I don't see Blizzard stuff getting in before Chief if they want something huge with no ties to Nintendo, especially with the state of Blizzard today. And Killer instinct again I don't see being seeriously considered before other much bigger fighting games like Mortal kombat especially. Other Rare characters like Conker would compete directly with Crash so I don't see why they would go with him, and Joanna Dark will compete with other shooter characters like Chief and Doom so again no real reason to go with her.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

First Peter Griffin and Solid Snake are confirmed for Fortnite, then Rockstar confirms Tuesday will have our first look at GTA6, now THIS? It's not even Noon for me, and I've already got a bunch of stuff on my plate!

(Also, when do we start the "WaPeach For Smash" movement?)

 

[cashregister9]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

I wish they either went full Doronjo or full Gremlin not this weird in-between that just makes her look like Wario and Waluigi's kid sidekick.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly I don't see Blizzard stuff getting in before Chief if they want something huge with no ties to Nintendo, especially with the state of Blizzard today. And Killer instinct again I don't see being seeriously considered before other much bigger fighting games like Mortal kombat especially. Other Rare characters like Conker would compete directly with Crash so I don't see why they would go with him, and Joanna Dark will compete with other shooter characters like Chief and Doom so again no real reason to go with her.

I think Crash has the same issues as other Activision/Blizzard characters if they want to try to distance from the company’s internal issues. Master Chief has the aforementioned complete lack of presence on Nintendo hardware besides a skin in Minecraft. Killer Instinct isn’t as big as Mortal Kombat but it at least doesn’t have the potential issue with the franchise’s history of gore and resulting lack of presence in Japan. DOOM has a similar gore hurdle to Mortal Kombat to a lesser extent. There’s also Battletoads which could represent a new genre to Smash in Beat em Ups. The toads would probably fall more towards a surprise retro slot than a huge big name addition but I don’t think they’re impossible in that scenario. Not likely by any means, but not impossible.

Again, I think I agree that the big three are probably still the most likely but each have their own hurdles potentially holding them back that I don’t think any are really shoo ins. I think it’s good to keep an open mind and not focus too narrowly on just a few possibilities while discounting other options.

 

[Ivander]

I wish they either went full Doronjo or full Gremlin not this weird in-between that just makes her look like Wario and Waluigi's kid sidekick.

Supposedly, by what info is being shared, she's meant to be more gremlin, as she's supposedly younger than Peach. So the person comparing her to the younger Doronjo in recent years is not far off.

 

[Stratos]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

If Wapeach existed then what would they make? Wadaisy? Of course, I wrote this for fun.

 

[Curious Villager]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

Guess its only a matter of time before Gorochu gets released from his cage...

Eh, still think Captain Syrup is a more fitting "Wapeach" anyway...

 

[smashkirby]

I'd love to see them, Valkyrie, Yuri Lowell, or Cress Albane, I think Namco has some wonderful choices honestly!

I know I gas up Nintendo's retro/obscure/niche series for Smash a lot, but aside from the reason of genuinely wanting them in Smash, I'm in no way opposed to 3rd parties that fall under a similar label, and Namco is no exception!

I'd be more than fine with Reiji and Xiaomu, Taizo Hori, Tobi Masuyo, Susumu Hori, Valkyrie, Lloyd/Yuri/Cress/Stahn (Admittedly, NxC bias going on for Stahn's part), Bravoman, Wonder Momo, Tarosuke, Taira no Kagekiyo, Pino and Acha, Namuko (Namco Heroine) Hiromi Tengenji, Mappy, Reiko Nagase/Ai Fukami, Leila, Metro-Cross Runner, The Prince, Klonoa, Wagan, Gil, Ki, KOS-MOS, Waya-Hime, Red Baron and Blue Max, Richard Miller, Dr. Don and Dr. Dan, Albatross, Mitsurugi, Taki, Clovis, and even Rick Taylor!

 

[HyperSomari64]

Supposedly, by what info is being shared, she's meant to be more gremlin, as she's supposedly younger than Peach. So the person comparing her to the younger Doronjo in recent years is not far off.

I was searching about that, and...

Spoiler

WHAT THE FUNK IS THIS!?

 

[Louie G.]

I think it’s good to keep an open mind and not focus too narrowly on just a few possibilities while discounting other options.

I agree with this on principle but I think the third party conversation is often a bit more streamlined given their smaller presence. Especially when it comes to western third parties, of which I still don't expect a massive influx of and there are still quite massive and popular choices available. I would find it difficult to justify adding Fulgore over Master friggin Chief or Crash Bandicoot unless a really strong support base forms overnight - even though Killer Instinct is rad. Warcraft sure, it's definitely significant, although I think it lacks that strong identifiable "character" drive that a series like Halo, Crash or Doom already have. I feel like if we got a Blizzard character, it would be Tracer or something (which would go over like a lead balloon).

I'm not here to shut out conversations surrounding more unorthodox picks though, I think it's healthy. I admire the imagination and I'm always down to talk fun ideas. I just realistically don't have my hopes up for many western characters, even within the circle I mentioned I'm giving Crash the benefit of the doubt despite thinking he will also not be in the game. My speculative focus is directed dominantly toward major Japanese developers so I've just put a couple western characters aside and called it a day, since however you cut it most of them wouldn't be debuting in the base game anyway.

All in all, I don't think any of the third party characters we've gotten are particularly strange or deep cuts. Maybe Bayonetta and Banjo, but it's easy to understand why these characters were chosen. Everyone else I would argue is among the more obvious franchises in those companies' arsenals, even Joker for Sega / Atlus despite Persona being kind of an oddball series for Smash initially.

 

[fogbadge]

I was searching about that, and...

Spoiler

WHAT THE FUNK IS THIS!?

well on the right we have 90s doc ock, on the left **** dastardly after he became depressed from falling to stop the pigeon and in the middle we have the shadow queen

 

[Sucumbio]

You had me at

...Taki...

Please, Nintendo?!

 

[HyperSomari64]

You had me at

at wat?

 

[Gengar84]

I agree with this on principle but I think the third party conversation is often a bit more streamlined given their smaller presence. Especially when it comes to western third parties, of which I still don't expect a massive influx of and there are still quite massive and popular choices available. I would find it difficult to justify adding Fulgore over Master friggin Chief or Crash Bandicoot unless a really strong support base forms overnight - even though Killer Instinct is rad. Warcraft sure, it's definitely significant, although I think it lacks that strong identifiable "character" drive that a series like Halo, Crash or Doom already have. I feel like if we got a Blizzard character, it would be Tracer or something (which would go over like a lead balloon).

I'm not here to shut out conversations surrounding more unorthodox picks though, I think it's healthy. I admire the imagination and I'm always down to talk fun ideas. I just realistically don't have my hopes up for many western characters, even within the circle I mentioned I'm giving Crash the benefit of the doubt despite thinking he will also not be in the game. My speculative focus is directed dominantly toward major Japanese developers so I've just put a couple western characters aside and called it a day, since however you cut it most of them wouldn't be debuting in the base game anyway.

All in all, I don't think any of the third party characters we've gotten are particularly strange or deep cuts. Maybe Bayonetta and Banjo, but it's easy to understand why these characters were chosen. Everyone else I would argue is among the more obvious franchises in those companies' arsenals, even Joker for Sega / Atlus despite Persona being kind of an oddball series for Smash initially.

I think you’re probably right if things stay as they are. I’m being a bit more speculative to where the series might be headed in the future. We only have two western characters now but we have to start somewhere. Brawl only had two third party characters and now we have a ton. I feel like the same could happen with increasing openness towards western characters in general. Since Smash is made in Japan, I think it will likely always lean towards more Japanese characters but I could see something like split of one third western and two thirds Japanese happening. Smash is a global series so it makes sense to me to try to spread out the representation a bit.

 

[UserKev]

Wait, people actually detest WaPeach? I feel like Luigi's Mansion ruined Luigi. Same for WarioWare Wario.

WaPeach at least isn't obnoxious and narrative centric.

 

[Sucumbio]

at wat?

:D

 

[Nabbitfan730]

How did Luigi Mansion and WarioWare ruin either characters especially the former?

 

[Louie G.]

Smash is a global series so it makes sense to me to try to spread out the representation a bit.

I'm here for it! Although it's probably worth mentioning that your average Japanese blockbuster series seems to have more worldwide appeal, and for whatever reason many of those big western series end up more obscured overseas. Mortal Kombat, for example, ignoring the obvious graphic imagery would naturally be a slam dunk addition for a western audience but they just don't care about it out there. But we still love Street Fighter and Tekken over here.

Steve was a particularly strong choice because the appeal of Minecraft transcends borders (and in respect to my initial post, the same can be said of Undertale). Even among the most obvious choices you can't say this of too many other western series. Maybe Fortnite and Apex Legends?

 

[Sucumbio]

Actually to my paling eyes and without context wapeqch looks like a mega man character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How did Luigi Mansion and WarioWare ruin either characters especially the former?

In regard to Wario, someone didn't read the WL4 manual

Wario being gross was never some secret fact hidden from the West.

 

[Ivander]

Wait, people actually detest WaPeach?

What are you seeing? All I've been seeing is surprise and intrigue at her design. I sometimes see the couple people who wish she was more Wario like, but they didn't hate her design.

 

[Will]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

She looks like she popped right out of an anime from the 1990s that nobody remembers.

The design is low key cool asf, but I personally believe it was a mistake to put this unused character in the hands of the collective internet.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Luigi's Mansion and Warioware ruined their characters.... by giving them their iconic personalities and character traits that are well liked by their fanbases to this day?

 

[Will]

I feel like Luigi's Mansion ruined Luigi.

I can understand not liking the gameplay shift that changed from Wario Land to WarioWare.

What did Luigi do wrong?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Really like the Wapeach design. It's unlikely but I'd be happy to see her added to the Mario Sports/Kart/Party Spinoffs in the next console generation just like Rosalina was during the Wii/Wii U era and Pauline was during the Switch era. Feels like a unique presence to contrast with Peach and Daisy that would be refreshing compared to adding more Metal and Baby versions of characters.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I disagree on the mid-battle evolution mechanic not working. Sure it'll take a hefty amount of work for the developers compared to other fighters but I think it's possible. This guy managed to make it work and works similar to characters that have meters whenever they deal or dealt damage. Just tilt the joystick in a certain direction when its time and presto.

I feel like a mid-battle evolution mechanic would work better for a Digimon character, tbh. The reason being that Digimon can Digivolve and de-Digivolve back to previous forms, so it would make more sense imo to go from say WarGreymon back down to Agumon after losing a stock rather than randomly devolving an Eeveelution back down into Eevee, since in Pokemon you can't really go backwards.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

I feel like a mid-battle evolution mechanic would work better for a Digimon character, tbh. The reason being that Digimon can Digivolve and de-Digivolve back to previous forms, so it would make more sense imo to go from say WarGreymon back down to Agumon after losing a stock rather than randomly devolving an Eeveelution back down into Eevee, since in Pokemon you can't really go backwards.

No, I didn't after a single stock. Like in the battle, once they transform into an evolution, they are stuck in the form until the next match.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Bwaaaaaaaaaah!

lowkey this doesn't even look like a Mario character. Something about the eyes and the blush skew way more anime than the Mario series has ever gotten. It is a funny little design, though. Love the horns.

 

[UserKev]

How did Luigi Mansion and WarioWare ruin either characters especially the former?

Luigi's Mansion made him too reliant on the scare factor troupe. And WarioWare made Wario too narrative centric.

Me remembering good 'old Luigi in SMB2USA and the classic (Real) Wario in the Land games and Mario Party.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Luigi had a personality before Luigi Mansion?

 

[Ivander]

Luigi had a personality before Luigi Mansion?

Remember in Mario Tennis 64 when he taunted Waluigi and was about to go mano-a-mano with him with Mario trying to stop them?

Then again, the movie did sort of make him a mix between heroic and cowardly, with the idea being that when he's with Mario, he becomes alot more confident, but when Mario's not around, he becomes more worried.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Remember in Mario Tennis 64 when he taunted Waluigi and was about to go mano-a-mano with him with Mario trying to stop them?

Then again, the movie did sort of make him a mix between heroic and cowardly, with the idea being that when he's with Mario, he becomes alot more confident, but when Mario's not around, he becomes more worried.

I can't quite remember my Mario Facts(TM), but from what I seen of Luigi before LM. He didn't really had a strong and unique core personality. Like each series media had their own different take that didn't quite match together.

Which was fine - not every characters are figured on their first go - but I wouldn't say Luigi personality now being constantly as a coward who love his brother and still tries to save the day despite his fear as "ruining" the character. It make him a good contrat to Mario and the others, which for a series as simple plot wise as Mario, is quite good in the short and long term.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wapeach doesn't look villainous enough.

Where's the Wa?!


Also, her name should be deach. Just like Waluigi shoulda been called 7uigi!

 

[UserKev]

Luigi had a personality before Luigi Mansion?

Yup. Luigi was a cooler Mario at one point. And he had the hidden unlock able character persona going for him.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

And WarioWare made Wario too narrative centric.

I've never seen this take on WarioWare before, likely because every WarioWare game is essentially "Wario wants money. Wario makes hit video game to get money. Wario cheats his employees out of money."