Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Slime Scholar]

There can still be exciting newcomers both from franchises already represented and franchises without representation.

This is true but I don’t think all of the 3rd party franchises really support 2nd reps equally.

like, Sonic, for example has a plethora of popular characters including some obvious contenders (Tails, maybe Shadow or Knuckles) whereas most people would be totally mystified seeing Gruntilda or Ms. Pac-Man show up in the next game.

 

[Good Night !]

Why yes, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon has always been associated with Pokemon. Crazy, right?

I know there are other Mystery Dungeon series, I just wanted to make a funny.

He talk about Mystery Dungeon, not Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.

And actually, no. Mystery Dungeon was not always associated with Pokemon. It was associated with Dragon Quest first and then Final Fantasy, with Chocobo Mystery Dungeon.

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is perhaps the most popular one though.

 

[fogbadge]

Trail series , Tails of , Atelier , SaGa , Decapolice , Halo , League of Legends

i thought you said exciting?

 

[Good Night !]

Discussion #17364829

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Metal Gear : Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog : Dr. Eggman
Mega Man : Bass or Proto Man, I don't know who I prefer between these two.
Pac Man : Ms. Pac Man as an echo fighter seems logical.
Street Fighter : Chun-li
Final Fantasy : If Smash is reduced to FF7, Tifa. If not, Terra.
Bayonetta : Jeanne
Castlevania : Alucard
Persona : I don't know a lot about this franchise. Probably the protagonist of Persona 4. I think his name is Yu ?
Dragon Quest : I don't know a lot about this franchise either. Maybe Slime since they are the mascot of DQ.
Banjo Koazooie : Gruntilda
Fatal Fury : If Smash is reduced to Fatal Fury, Geese Howard. If not, Kyo Kusanagi.
Minecraft : /
Tekken : Paul Phœnix
Kingdom Hearts : Riku

 

[rychu_supadude]

This is true but I don’t think all of the 3rd party franchises really support 2nd reps equally.

like, Sonic, for example has a plethora of popular characters including some obvious contenders (Tails, maybe Shadow or Knuckles) whereas most people would be totally mystified seeing Gruntilda or Ms. Pac-Man show up in the next game.

Isn't Namco's current stance on Ms. Pac-Man still "**** you, there's nobody by that name"? having the classic bow-and-lipstick design show up in Smash instead of "Pac-Mom" would be a shocker for sure.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Isn't Namco's current stance on Ms. Pac-Man still "**** you, there's nobody by that name"?

It is but I figured more people knew Ms. Pac-Man and that if I mentioned Pac-Mom nobody would know what the hell I was talking about.

 

[Sucumbio]

It is but I figured more people knew Ms. Pac-Man and that if I mentioned Pac-Mom nobody would know what the hell I was talking about.

I am one such person. I don't remember Pac-Mom. Or why Namco has decided Ms. Pac-Man doesn't exist.

 

[osby]

I am one such person. I don't remember Pac-Mom. Or why Namco has decided Ms. Pac-Man doesn't exist.

Rights issues iirc.

Bandai Namco owns Ms. Pac-Man but there are some unresolved royalty rights and obligations issues.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I am one such person. I don't remember Pac-Mom. Or why Namco has decided Ms. Pac-Man doesn't exist.

It's a long, complicated story...

 

[Noipoi]

I am one such person. I don't remember Pac-Mom. Or why Namco has decided Ms. Pac-Man doesn't exist.

What do you mean? There has always been Pac-Mom, silly!

T h e r e h a s a l w a y s b e e n P a c - M o m…

 

[chocolatejr9]

What do you mean? There has always been Pac-Mom, silly!

T h e r e h a s a l w a y s b e e n P a c - M o m…

You joke, but if you replace that with Professor Pac-Man, then you'd actually be correct.

 

[Good Night !]

Okay, I wasn't aware about that "Pac-Mom" things. I had to google it.

Weird story.

 

[Sucumbio]

It seems like AtGames is the real buster. Booo

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Its funny because ms Pacman is a better game.

 

[Megadoomer]

Discussion #17364829

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I'm skipping some because I haven't been too deep into Minecraft for quite some time and I'd have a tough time coming up with a second character for something like Pac-Man (aside from Ms. Pac-Man, who would likely be an alternate costume). Also, I'm assuming that assist trophies aren't an option.

- Raiden (Metal Gear Rising version - give us Metal Gear Rising music, you cowards!)
- this one's a tough choice between Tails and Eggman for me, but I'll go with Eggman because I'd love to see what they could do with him and how they'd incorporate his numerous boss battles
- if Zero's not an option, then I'd go with Sigma from Mega Man X
- Chun-Li
- assuming this covers all of Final Fantasy, then Terra from FF6
- Jeanne
- Soma Cruz (assuming that Alucard's not an option)
- Aigis from Persona 3
- the Dragon Lord from Dragon Quest 1 (to be fair, I've only beaten DQ1 and 11 out of the series; maybe there's a better option from 3 that I'm unaware of)
- Gruntilda (or if we're counting the broader Donkey Kong/Rare universe, which is linked in part by Banjo's pet goldfish of all characters, then Conker)
- Rugal Bernstein. You are not prepared for Rugal Bernstein.
- Heihachi Mishima
- assuming that Disney characters are ruled out (Mickey could be fun, and Scrooge would be a nice throwback to the NES days), I'll go with one of the Ansems/Xehanorts. I've only played KH1, Chain of Memories, and 2, so I'm not sure which one would be the best option for a playable character, but Ansem: Seeker of Darkness (the main villain of KH1) is the first one that comes to mind for me, so I'll go with him.

There's a bit of a trend here; I'd like to see more villains in Smash.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Discussion #17364829

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Gonna try and go with some lesser-discussed picks as well as in some cases splitting series up for the sake of more variety

• Metal Gear: Psycho Mantis, with a Down B that allows him to read your save data
• Sonic the Hedgehog: Metal Sonic, but as an actually unique character with a couple of parallels to Sonic's moveset here and there. I think him being an Echo would be kind of a disservice - he's got a lot of abilities and potential considering his whole deal and whatever, he'd be neat.
• Mega Man: Bass would honestly be a lot of fun. I can imagine he'd have a pretty different moveset to Mega Man that'd probably incorporate the Treble Boost, which would honestly be a really unique "buff move" compared to most given how it'd be able to be activated. Dr. Wily comes close though.
  • Mega Man (general): Zero (MMZ). Whilst his MMX design is probably more likely/popular I think his MMZ appearance has a ton of potential, including using his different weapons and maybe even the element chips for different effects on certain attacks.
• PAC-MAN: Ghost Gang, as in literally all four of them are playable at once. It's a fairly obvious pick as a deliberate second rep but I think it'd be really cool. Not much to add really, aside from it probably making sense to use a similar design to PAC-MAN's in that it's based on the World games.
  • "Retro" NAMCO?: Dig Dug seems like he'd be fun. Given his unique potential overall and also his use in stuff like Mr. Driller he seems like he could have a ton of unique potential. Also, he's decently iconic! Mappy came close, though.
• Street Fighter: Blanka seems like a genuinely pretty fun and unique pick who I think could work really well in a platfighter and would lend so well to a really fun and expressive moveset - but, shoutout to Twelve who's an absolute personal favourite of mine, even if I don't think they'd really work here.
  • "Street Fighter": Sodom, from Final Fight. Like this is a 110% biased pick that'd never happen but I truly think it'd be so interesting to see how his moveset would work in a platfighter and also I just love the guy he's such an idiot
• Final Fantasy VII: Aerith would honestly be really fun, I think her "white magic" focus would give her a very different feel compared to the few other "mages" we have on the roster like Zelda or Palutena, and her use of a staff in combat would also be hella fun! Tifa would rock too, though.
  • Final Fantasy: Cactuar would rock. Like, I do want someone like White Mage or Terra, but Cactuar would be so fun given his whole 1,000 Needles thing, and plus there'd totally be other stuff you could do if you wanted to include elements like summons or whatever.
• Bayonetta: Loki, because despite me not really knowing much about the series, I like his design and magical cards would be a really unique and cool weapon to bring to Smash
• Castlevania: Dracula. Like actually straight up Dracula. Alucard comes as a close second because I do think he's really cool but Dracula could have such a weird but fun moveset including elements of his different boss battles in the past.
• Persona: Aigis, I know Yu is probably the objectively "correct" choice but Aigis seems like she'd have so much moveset potential even not looking at The Answer or P4AU. Plus come to think of it P3R is out soonish so there's that too
  • Shin Megami Tensei?: Jack Bros., consisting of both Jack Frost and Pyro Jack as a team, partially because the VB game is really pretty fun but also because these lil bros would work so well together. I'm thinking less Pyra/Mythra and more Ren & Stimpy in that they share one moveset but both attack at different times with different effects.
• Dragon Quest: Slime, it may be the boring "no duh" pick but I think it'd be really cool and funny, plus there's a lot of merit to it anyway
• Fatal Fury: Duck King. No like, actually. I love his design, I love how goofy he is, I love how he somehow gets referenced in like literally everything. Plus, a moveset predominantly based on breakdancing would really feel fresh and cool in Smash.
  • The King of Fighters?: Rugal. He'd be neat. I like him. Others seem to as well.
• Minecraft: Piglin could actually be pretty fun if you combined their different elements into one, as well as including their different weapons and items from time to time, or even other elements of the Nether and its varied environments and hazards.
• Tekken: Yoshimitsu is just honestly really cool, as well as being a reoccuring character since the very beginning, and having a really unique moveset to boot. Plus, it'd be a good opportunity to also bring in some music and Spirits from SoulCalibur.
• Kingdom Hearts: Mickey Mouse purely because it'd be funny
  • "Kingdom Hearts": Neku Sakuraba PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD but jokes aside he'd be pretty cool and I think TWEWY would be awesome in Smash even if its time has probably passed but oh well

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Metal gear: Raiden (Metal gear rising version) So we can get rising music

Sonic: Shadow, it just makes sense.

Megaman: Megaman.EXE, i want representation from the RPG's.

Street fighter: Chun-Li, i mean, come on.

Castlevania: Alucard. i only startd playing Castlevania recently so i know barely anything outside of Alucard being a character who shows up a lot in the series,

Persona: Yu, P4 is one of the greatest RPG's of all time, you dont gotta say more.

King of fighters: Iori, since he's Sakurai's favorite.

Kingdom hearts: Roxas, it feels like he's the most popular out of KH's original characters and he's an actual clone of Sora in the lore so you can make him an echo no problem.

I didnt give one to Pacman, Dragon Quest and Minecraft because i think they are fine as they are.

I didnt give one to Tekken and Bayonetta because of lack of knowledge.

And i didnt give one to FF because of Sephiroth.

 

[fogbadge]

Metal gear: Raiden (Metal gear rising version) So we can get rising music

Sonic: Shadow, it just makes sense.

Megaman: Megaman.EXE, i want representation from the RPG's.

Street fighter: Chun-Li, i mean, come on.

Castlevania: Alucard. i only startd playing Castlevania recently so i know barely anything outside of Alucard being a character who shows up a lot in the series,

Persona: Yu, P4 is one of the greatest RPG's of all time, you dont gotta say more.

King of fighters: Iori, since he's Sakurai's favorite.

Kingdom hearts: Roxas, it feels like he's the most popular out of KH's original characters and he's an actual clone of Sora in the lore so you can make him an echo no problem.

I didnt give one to Pacman, Dragon Quest and Minecraft because i think they are fine as they are.

I didnt give one to Tekken and Bayonetta because of lack of knowledge.

And i didnt give one to FF because of Sephiroth.

and you didn't give one to banjo kazooie because?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

and you didn't give one to banjo kazooie because?

i forget

 

[Noipoi]

i forget

he forgor

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Just thinking about what songs i want to see if the Yakuza series ever joins smash bros. I came up with a list of 18 songs.

This doesnt include 4 and 5 because i have yet to play those, i have them on my PS4 but i havent started playing either yet. And of course 8 will bring new music that would go on a list like this.

Recieve you (Yakuza series as a whole, there's a new remix of it in every entry)
Funk goes on (Yakuza 1)
For whose sake (Yakuza 1)
Road to Kamuro hills (Yakuza 2)
Outlaw lullaby (Yakuza 2)
Fly (Yakuza 3)
Bruise (Yakuza 3)
Theory of beauty (Yakuza 6)
Town bully (Yakuza 6)
Pledge of demon (Yakuza Zero)
Trouble shooting star (Yakuza Zero)
Recieve and turn you (Yakuza like a dragon)
Yokohama crackhouse (Yakuza Like a dragon)
Born to be wild (Like a black panther 2)
Drumfire (Judgement)
Final destination (Judgement 2)
Kiryu's theme (Yakuza Dead souls)
Unrestful flowers (Like a dragon ishin)

 

[Noipoi]

Alright, I'm bored. So check this out.

2024-The next Nintendo console is both announced and released during this year. Let's call it the Switch U.

June 2025- During a Nintendo presentation, we get the rather vague announcement that a new Smash brothers is in the works for the Switch U. It's set for a 2026 release, and Masahiro Sakurai is still involved. Nerds rejoice worldwide.

February 2026-After months of speculation, we finally get the initial reveal teaser. Obvious characters like Mario, Link, and Pikachu are confirmed. A holiday 2026 release date is established.

June 2026-
We get the full reveal for Smash 6, though the whole returning roster isn't shown off at once. Over the course of the year we learn that few characters are cut, namely crazy third parties like Sephiroth or Sora and oddballs like Young Link and Pichu. Incineroar and Corrin are also gone, for obvious but yet to be revealed reasons. But for the most part all first party veterans are intact, along with third party staples like Sonic and Pac-Man. And to the surprise of many Joker, Steve, and Banjo Kazooie are still around. We get our first new character reveals here, particularly Waluigi, Dixie Kong (an echo of Diddy), and Crash Bandicoot. They spend a lot of time focusing on tweaks made to improve older characters, like Mario using more power-ups or Ganondorf's...everything.

Summer-ish 2026-
A solo Smash presentation. New features abound, tons of music and items and assist trophies and Pokeball summons, disconfirming some big requests like Isaac or Bomberman. We get standalone stages based on Tears of the Kingdom, Mario Wonder, and Legends Arceus. Here we get the announcements for Master Chief, Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic echo), Octoling (Inkling echo), and Geno. Nerds rejoice once more. The game's main gimmicks to set it apart from Ultimate are retooling old movesets for classic fighters, and an all-new story mode with fully animated cutscenes, setting out to be an improvement on the Subspace Emissary.

September 2026-A Nintendo Direct is held as usual, revealing Alear at the end and Bandanna Waddle Dee near the beginning. Reactions are mixed.

Fall-ish 2026-
A month or two before the game's release, a final presentation is held. Revealing Noah, Meowscarada, Paper Mario, and Sans. They go into more detail on the story mode, and announce that dlc is on the way, featuring both new characters and returning veterans like Sephiroth. If you preorder the new expansion pass, you get an extra fighter, Tingle. No one knows how to respond to this being the first Zelda rep in a decade.

Late Fall/Winter-ish 2026-Game releases.

This is generally how I see things going down, with a few liberties taken here and there. If I'm wrong I'll literally drink water.

Feel free to tear it to pieces

 

[Will]

Feel free to tear it to pieces

Almost perfect but I don’t see the Scorpion shilling

 

[Noipoi]

Almost perfect but I don’t see the Scorpion shilling

I never got into the new Fighters Passes

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Hi guys, I've been lurking for a long while now, but I wanted to bring up this conversation. I've just recently been seeing this A.I. generated Smash Bros artwork recently and it looks scary good and I want to ask you guys if this may effect Smash Bros leaks and speculation going into the next Smash Bros similar to how the Grinch leak drove us mad? Also the program used to make these is called DALL-E 3
Here's a few examples I've been seeing:

Spoiler: Artwork examples

 

[CannonStreak]

Hi guys, I've been lurking for a long while now, but I wanted to bring up this conversation. I've just recently been seeing this A.I. generated Smash Bros artwork recently and it looks scary good and I want to ask you guys if this may effect Smash Bros leaks and speculation going into the next Smash Bros similar to how the Grinch leak drove us mad? Also the program used to make these is called DALL-E 3
Here's a few examples I've been seeing:

Spoiler: Artwork examples

Holy cow, those are well done!

I only think images of that kind would only affect Smash speculation to an extent, unless someone uses them in a leak and makes that leak well. Those do look convincing.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Holy cow, those are well done!

I only think images of that kind would only affect Smash speculation to an extent, unless someone uses them in a leak and makes that leak well. Those do look convincing.

To be honest I think A.I. could improve over time to where these artworks maybe used by someone clever enough and skilled enough to edit these into leaks that may cause a bit of chaos in the smash community.

 

[CannonStreak]

To be honest I think A.I. could improve over time to where these artworks maybe used by someone clever enough and skilled enough to edit these into leaks that may cause a bit of chaos in the smash community.

Yeah, unwanted chaos. I was kind of talking about that in my last post. I can see skilled people pull the wool over people’s eyes with images like these.

 

[Ivander]

Hi guys, I've been lurking for a long while now, but I wanted to bring up this conversation. I've just recently been seeing this A.I. generated Smash Bros artwork recently and it looks scary good and I want to ask you guys if this may effect Smash Bros leaks and speculation going into the next Smash Bros similar to how the Grinch leak drove us mad? Also the program used to make these is called DALL-E 3
Here's a few examples I've been seeing:

Spoiler: Artwork examples

I am not going to be surprised if any form of "Smash leak" were to suddenly get banned immediately because of fake leakers now having AI to help them.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I am not going to be surprised if any form of "Smash leak" were to suddenly get banned immediately because of fake leakers now having AI to help them.

Based timeline

 

[Perkilator]

I already made a thread of this but I’d like to ask: in your opinion, what lessons should the next Smash take from other platform fighters?

 

[Opossum]

There are lots of things Smash can learn from other platform fighters to improve itself.

The most obvious would be having online that Actually Works. Good servers and rollback netcode are the standard now, and have been for a while. Even ARMS got this right, so to me it's clearly an issue on Bandai-Namco's end. This should be one of their highest priorities next time.

Give the player greater customization for rulesets. PSASBR had a hazards off mode years before Smash debuted their own archaic version of it. Games like Multiversus and the upcoming NASB2 give each stage several layouts, the latter giving even more layout options than just Standard/BF/FD by including a Smashville form too. Take these and go a step further. Make the hazard toggle like the Item Select where you can turn each respective hazard on or off. This makes it so we no longer have cases like Wily's Castle, where the unique moving platforms are, bafflingly, considered hazards to the same degree as Yellow Devil.

On the topic of different stage forms, make all stage forms for transforming stages individually selectable. This functionality is already in the game, as specific spirit battles stay in one part of a roaming stage (Ryota Hayami, for example, specifically uses Wuhu Island's power cruising course layout with no stage transitions), so it's baffling that Minecraft World is the only stage with a selectable layout.

Do not be afraid to add new mechanics. Smash hasn't added a universal fight mechanic since Brawl added Final Smashes. Custom moves were a pre-match customization option, and the closest Ultimate had was the Final Smash meter (which most folks turned off because it wasn't remotely balanced; thanks, Zelda). Meanwhile in the transition from NASB1 to NASB2 they added an entire Roman Cancel mechanic and meter system with the addition of Slime Cancels. It's a major mechanical overhaul, and introducing a new, universal mechanic like this would do Smash a lot of good. Even something like turning the extra jump button into a dedicated wavedash button would be great.

Also, the elephant in the room: roster diversity. It's being talked about quite a bit now after NASB2 just announced Gerald, but it's honestly embarrassing that Smash has been around for over twenty years and has 89 fighters, and yet there isn't a single black character on the roster without resorting to like...Miis and avatar character pallet swaps. PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl, Slap City, Brawlhalla, Rushdown Revolt, and Multiversus all had at least one black character with roster sizes that are all MUCH smaller than Smash Ultimate (Slap City has 11 characters total and Rushdown Revolt has 12). Rivals of Aether admittedly doesn't but like...that's because all of the characters are anthropomorphic creatures, and not humans. Likewise with Fraymakers, which only has two human characters on a roster of...six. The fact that Steve is the closest Smash has is embarrassing.

And I'll be frank, "there aren't any who make sense to add" really doesn't fly as well as people think it does. Even discounting third party characters, Nintendo fully has the rights to characters like Doc Louis, Marina, Elma, and Twintelle. Hell, if they want to give Engage a character while taking a break from main lords, Timerra is right there. And again, that's before getting into third party options.

Hell, even beyond just black characters, the only human characters on the roster who aren't either white or Japanese are like...Min Min (Chinese), the Ice Climbers (Inuit), and like, maybe Simon and Richter (ambiguously implied to have some degree of Romanian ancestry). Oh, and Ganondorf, who is based entirely on offensive SWANA stereotypes. Smash is genuinely pretty awful when it comes to character diversity, which is incredibly noticable not just for platform fighters, but fighting games in general, which tend to be fairly diverse.

 

[Sucumbio]

Online is definitely the most important improvement they can make at this point. But this could be a difficult prospect. Having a series that was never intended for 4 way online vs indie games built from the ground up with Online play in mind is one challenge. Bamco could rework the engine like they did for Tekken but their track record isn't great and Sakurai has even said he doesn't exactly see any value in online which to me is another drawback to it even improving. So while it's obvious it should happen there's some deep seated reasons why it hasn't, even though they tried by creating the newish input buffer system which even effects offline play and when added to online lag becomes really dumb.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I already made a thread of this but I’d like to ask: in your opinion, what lessons should the next Smash take from other platform fighters?

Realistically? The only thing I can see them changing is online, and even that's not a guarantee given how inconsistant Nintendo has been with that sort of thing. There's... not much else they CAN learn, TBH: Smash ain't broke, no need to fix it.

 

[fogbadge]

If you ask me the only way to improve online is to have it remove itself from the game

 

[Sucumbio]

If you ask me the only way to improve online is to have it remove itself from the game

It's true the root cause is in the game engine itself but "removing" it is far less effective from a design perspective. Unless you mean just not having online lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I realy dont know how they ****ed up that online play when in Sm4sh it was just fine.

 

[Ivander]

I realy dont know how they ****ed up that online play when in Sm4sh it was just fine.

Probably a mix and bit of a whole bunch of things, like being stingy with costs or optimising the main game over the online, still working with Windows 95 and 98, items apparently having issues with Rollback, etc.

 

[fogbadge]

It's true the root cause is in the game engine itself but "removing" it is far less effective from a design perspective. Unless you mean just not having online lol

that is exactly what i mean

 

[HyperSomari64]

I want Hammerin Harry as an Ice Climbers echo fighter. Irem deserves representation