Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Anyone want any characters who are even more out there than Plant?

Like, having even less prominence in their series levels out there.. Youngster joey is kinda low fruit in regards to memes, but being beaten up by a kid commanding a rat would certainly be new.. Bonus points if they redesign his Rattata so that it is based on the FEAR strat. I'd unironically be interested in how it'd work.

Probably not what you had in mind, but...

These chickens just want to raise their eggs, but the foxes keep putting bombs under their nests. Deactivate the bombs before they explode. But don’t accidentally destroy eggs.

— Obscure Nintendo Character of the Day Descriptions (@oncotd_guide) December 6, 2021

Or really, any character mentioned on this account.

 

[Sucumbio]

pupNapoleon didn't you suggest way back when the next Smash would be a reboot or am I remembering incorrectly...?

 

[Gengar84]

Anyone want any characters who are even more out there than Plant?

Like, having even less prominence in their series levels out there.. Youngster joey is kinda low fruit in regards to memes, but being beaten up by a kid commanding a rat would certainly be new.. Bonus points if they redesign his Rattata so that it is based on the FEAR strat. I'd unironically be interested in how it'd work.

I would be happy with another really out there character. Im one of the few that actually really likes Plant as a Smash character. As long as the character looks cool and fun to play, I’m good with anything. Give me a random Zeugle from Tales of Arise, Pharaoh Man from Mega Man 4 or Diablos from Final Fantasy VIII.

 

[Trevenant]

Probably not what you had in mind, but...

These chickens just want to raise their eggs, but the foxes keep putting bombs under their nests. Deactivate the bombs before they explode. But don’t accidentally destroy eggs.

— Obscure Nintendo Character of the Day Descriptions (@oncotd_guide) December 6, 2021

Or really, any character mentioned on this account.

Definitely off the wall. Wasn't there that character suggestion account on twitter too?

A weird idea I had for a character was the peg guy from Streetview actually lol after using that botw streetview WIP thing.

Nintendo and Google officially collaborated on that a few times. The icon had the peg guy wearing Link's outfit and Google maps did stuff for Mario's anniversary a few years ago. There was also an april fools joke which had google maps running on the NES with dragon quest assets IIRC

Rough design could be that it's a character with really bad mobility, but gets stronger attacks the more you move. Maybe the stages could have their own streetview style minimaps on it's hud to designate certain directions for the character to move so they can get said buff.

Gimmicky idea, sure, would it count? No idea.. Collaborations aside, it isn't really a video game so IDK... Probably not. Maybe they could get that one character from that google game for Wii... Pretty sure it has a spirit in Ultimate...

 

[Guynamednelson]

I can't see the game completely discarding Ultimate's framework though. Even if everyone doesn't get brought back or some of the classic vets get major reworks, there's no reason to not use the work on a character like, say, Inkling, who is guaranteed to be in the next game and already in the next game and has a very modern-feeling moveset.

Agree on that front. I believe every single Smash sequel's used assets from the previous game anyway, not just 4 and Ultimate, as Brawl's development required the new team to acquire HAL's Melee assets. This is completely normal in games, even if they don't bring back everything from the game they're reusing stuff from.

 

[Yamat08]

I would hold third-parties to higher scrutiny, but so long as it's first-party, nothing's too wierd or obscure. I remember before Ultimate released, there were people joking about the human figure from the Wii remote safety warning, but that is unironically a good example of something they could go for. I also think it'd be neat if Nintendo dipped into some of their pre-game history, namely the Mini Game kangaroo. Having the Ultra Hand as an item is also something I could see them doing.

 

[SPEN18]

Who ACTUALLY wants cuts to the roster? No, I don't mean your least favorite character or dropping an Echo or two, I'm talking who here legitimately WANTS Smash to have characters cut after we just celebrated getting some of them back and many big names for the first time?

Since you asked, yes, I do want cuts. And not even insignificant ones. I don't mind cutting vets that I thought we were better off without anyway. I don't like "Everyone is Here" in part because it prevents us from weeding out the recency bias and clone padding that inevitably impact every Smash roster, disallowing us from properly reevaluating the roster when we get a new opportunity to do so (not to mention the enormous strain on resources for characters who, like I said, we're better off without). And I think third parties should be met with much more scrutiny; in particular, I think Sora was a bad idea.

 

[Guynamednelson]

For me it's less of a want and more of a believe-it's-gonna-happen.

Part of the reason why Everyone Is Here was feasible was because the Switch wasn't enough of an upgrade graphically to warrant remodeling all of the previous fighters/items. With the Switch NOT being anywhere near the Wii U in terms of financial success, that means Nintendo SHOULD have the funds to make the Switch's successor a bigger upgrade in the hardware department, which would mean the Smash team would think Ultimate's fighter/item models are now outdated and whatever comes back needs their models to be redone from scratch to match the new hardware's graphical standards. On top of that, there's, you know, having to deal with way more third parties now than just Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, and Square-Enix.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since you asked, yes, I do want cuts. And not even insignificant ones. I don't mind cutting vets that I thought we were better off without anyway. I don't like "Everyone is Here" in part because it prevents us from weeding out the recency bias and clone padding that inevitably impact every Smash roster, disallowing us from properly reevaluating the roster when we get a new opportunity to do so (not to mention the enormous strain on resources for characters who, like I said, we're better off without). And I think third parties should be met with much more scrutiny; in particular, I think Sora was a bad idea.

Lol. Good luck with...all of that, chief.

 

[ZelDan]

"We've hit the peak in terms of content" =/= "The next game is going to be a reboot with tons of cuts"

Just because the next game won't have 89 characters at launch doesn't mean it's going to have 40 characters or however large you'd realistically expect a reboot roster to be.

Yeah, I don't get why so many people act like the next game not being an Ultimate port must mean that the next Smash will HAVE to cut half the roster or more, when Sakurai has never said as such. While Sakurai (Assuming he still works on the next Smash) might not be able to do "Everyone is here" again, he's still very much aware of how much people value the characters/crossover side of Smash; I don't think Sakurai will just go "whelp, this game isn't going to be ultimate, so eh, **** having alot of characters or trying to please people as much as possible."

If I had to make a guess, I feel like the next Smash' base game could likely still be larger than Smash 4's overall roster (Smash 4's base + DLC), which would amount to...58+ characters I think? Assuming we get DLC, we could very well see the overall roster size maybe get into the 70's which, while not as big as Ultimate's, would still be a very impressive number of characters, still be larger than almost all other fighters, and still have plenty of room for a good amount of vets, newcomers, and old/new fan favorites.

 

[PeridotGX]

I can't see the game completely discarding Ultimate's framework though. Even if everyone doesn't get brought back or some of the classic vets get major reworks, there's no reason to not use the work on a character like, say, Inkling, who is guaranteed to be in the next game and already in the next game and has a very modern-feeling moveset.

I'm not a big fan of Inkling's moveset, actually. They feel like a Smash 64/Melee character, which works to their detriment (unlike, say, Banjo). Their normals are just a bunch of boring kicks, and the specials are kinda boring as well. If I had control over Smash Inkling would be one of the characters with big changes.

There are some 64/Melee characters that I think are fine, though. I can't see Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, or Marth being any different from the way they are, and characters like Luigi, Mewtwo, Donkey Kong, Bowser, Yoshi, and Jigglypuff only need one or two moves swapped out.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Since you asked, yes, I do want cuts. And not even insignificant ones. I don't mind cutting vets that I thought we were better off without anyway. I don't like "Everyone is Here" in part because it prevents us from weeding out the recency bias and clone padding that inevitably impact every Smash roster, disallowing us from properly reevaluating the roster when we get a new opportunity to do so (not to mention the enormous strain on resources for characters who, like I said, we're better off without). And I think third parties should be met with much more scrutiny; in particular, I think Sora was a bad idea.

Nice joke.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Since you asked, yes, I do want cuts. And not even insignificant ones. I don't mind cutting vets that I thought we were better off without anyway. I don't like "Everyone is Here" in part because it prevents us from weeding out the recency bias and clone padding that inevitably impact every Smash roster, disallowing us from properly reevaluating the roster when we get a new opportunity to do so (not to mention the enormous strain on resources for characters who, like I said, we're better off without). And I think third parties should be met with much more scrutiny; in particular, I think Sora was a bad idea.

bruh.

Sakurai literally brought everyone back, despite it being resource intensive to make them with the only one with extensive useable data being the Ice Climbers. Sakurai said that bringing everyone back was a huge priority. If you want evidence beyond just his word, look at how well cut vets did on ballot polls. Wolf, ICs, and Snake were all super popular requests. I know you may have the opinion that there is a need to trim the roster, but clearly a lot of people disagree and have disagreed for years.

Every smash will have recency bias due to how the roster is selected. Look at Brawl having a ton of characters from the GC/GBA era, save for the few slots left open for FE and Pokémon. The roster there was chosen in 2005, when all those were recent. Or 4 primarily having character choices that make a lot of sense in 2012. You will always have reps that shill something new, we have since melee. It’s not weird that Nintendo would use smash as a promotional vehicle how popular it is.

Finally, I find it hilarious people complain about third Parties when the greater public loves third parties and nintendo themselves pushed third parties hard this game. Nintendo themselves selected 8 out of the 11 Fighters Pass characters to be third parties. Clearly, they see there is plenty of merit to choose them.

Heck, Smash itself has been very apprehensive towards cuts. There is evidence that Mewtwo, Roy, and Doc were worked on for Brawl. We can say three of Sm4sh’s six cuts were cut for tech reasons, one came back as dlc, wolf had his moves grandfathered into Fox’s customs, and Konami was a mess in 2012-2015. It’s clear that when possible, Sakurai avoids cuts.

 

[SPEN18]

Sakurai literally brought everyone back, despite it being resource intensive to make them with the only one with extensive useable data being the Ice Climbers. Sakurai said that bringing everyone back was a huge priority. If you want evidence beyond just his word, look at how well cut vets did on ballot polls. Wolf, ICs, and Snake were all super popular requests. I know you may have the opinion that there is a need to trim the roster, but clearly a lot of people disagree and have disagreed for years.

I know most people disagree. Someone was just trying to claim that nobody wants cuts and I spoke up; it's just an opinion, that's all.

Every smash will have recency bias due to how the roster is selected. Look at Brawl having a ton of characters from the GC/GBA era, save for the few slots left open for FE and Pokémon. The roster there was chosen in 2005, when all those were recent. Or 4 primarily having character choices that make a lot of sense in 2012. You will always have reps that shill something new, we have since melee. It’s not weird that Nintendo would use smash as a promotional vehicle how popular it is.

I mean, yeah, it's a business and there's gonna be recency bias. Doesn't mean I won't root against it, and it doesn't mean we can't remove characters in future installments who only got onto the roster as a flash-in-the-pan promotional pick in the last installment. Why should we continue to prioritize a character like Incineroar over any number of other mons in the hypothetical next game (barring a port) just because he's been in Smash before? By then he's, for basically all practical purposes, just as outdated as Blaziken, Gardevoir, Gengar, Garchomp, Scizor, Suicune, etc. and way less popular/relevant/important in the grand scheme of pocket monsters (maybe even more outdated as those mons continue to appear consistently in things like Pokken or Unite or Snap or pastgen remakes). "Everyone is Here" bloats the roster by demanding that we stick with past decisions even when those decisions might not make sense anymore. It's about correcting past recency bias with the power of hindsight, not preventing current/future recency bias because that's basically always there.

Finally, I find it hilarious people complain about third Parties when the greater public loves third parties and nintendo themselves pushed third parties hard this game. Nintendo themselves selected 8 out of the 11 Fighters Pass characters to be third parties. Clearly, they see there is plenty of merit to choose them.

I wouldn't say "complain" is the right word. It's just supporting what you like and think makes sense. Of course they're gonna keep pushing third parties pretty hard if they think it is profitable (although it would probably be less during base game compared to DLC); doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.

It’s clear that when possible, Sakurai avoids cuts.

That's right, he does try crazily hard to avoid cuts. I'm saying I don't like it, that's all.

 

[Yamat08]

For me it's less of a want and more of a believe-it's-gonna-happen.

Part of the reason why Everyone Is Here was feasible was because the Switch wasn't enough of an upgrade graphically to warrant remodeling all of the previous fighters/items. With the Switch NOT being anywhere near the Wii U in terms of financial success, that means Nintendo SHOULD have the funds to make the Switch's successor a bigger upgrade in the hardware department, which would mean the Smash team would think Ultimate's fighter/item models are now outdated and whatever comes back needs their models to be redone from scratch to match the new hardware's graphical standards. On top of that, there's, you know, having to deal with way more third parties now than just Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, and Square-Enix.

Is Ultimate really that graphically intensive to begin with? I mean, I'm no expert on graphical computation, but a lot of these models look like they could've been in Brawl, no problem. For that matter, when we did get more powerful hardware with the WiiU and later the Switch, the go-to philosophy for Smash seems to have been more or less "take these models, and just allow more on-screen at once," as evident with 8-player Smash (granted, there had been a huge graphical change between Brawl and Smash4, but that looks to be more of a stylistic decision rather than any especially major technical improvement). Ironically, I hear about some things like Shulk and Ike's hair which were actually a downgrade from the previous installment (likely an issue with filters that apparently just couldn't be bothered with, but by no means impossible to fix on what is supposed to be more powerful hardware).

Why should we continue to prioritize a character like Incineroar over any number of other mons in the hypothetical next game (barring a port) just because he's been in Smash before? By then he's, for basically all practical purposes, just as outdated as Blaziken, Gardevoir, Gengar, Garchomp, Scizor, Suicune, etc. and way less popular/relevant/important in the grand scheme of pocket monsters (maybe even more outdated as those mons continue to appear consistently in things like Pokken or Unite or Snap or pastgen remakes).

I was iffy about Incineroar and its lack of relevance (which seemed to already be fading at the time) myself. However, for what it's worth, one reason it was stated to be chosen is because it fills the niche of having a grappler-based character on the Smash roster. So yeah, there'd be your reason for prioritizing it. Though I can only hope that Incineroar is the end to this trend of "select one of the three starters from the upcoming (at the time of production) generation and hope it sticks" (more so since The Pokemon Company seems to take more of an interest in promoting the crap out of gen1 classics than actually giving the new monsters they were hyping up until release the time of day).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ash owns an Incineroar.

It will forever be more relevant than Jigglypuff.

But people won't complain about Jigglypuff because it was made before 2007.

Recent things aren't bad and are added for legitimate reasons.

"Correcting past recency bias," just makes you sound old and cranky. Age isn't indicative of quality, importance or even fun.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Is Ultimate really that graphically intensive to begin with? I mean, I'm no expert on graphical computation, but a lot of these models look like they could've been in Brawl, no problem.

I believe Ultimate's models have somewhere between 4-10 times the polygon counts of their Brawl counterparts. And that's not even counting all the shaders Ultimate uses that the Wii couldn't even dream of processing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even Kirby and Jigglypuff look significantly better than their Brawl models.

I'd argue the only model the Wii could easily run would be Mr. Game and Watch. And I don't think he should count.

 

[Delzethin]

The Game Awards is less than a day away. Hoo boy, I wonder who the hell they'll reveal this year-

Oh. Right.

 

[Yamat08]

The Game Awards is less than a day away. Hoo boy, I wonder who the hell they'll reveal this year-

Oh. Right.

They'll reveal........ a reminder that the final update's out? Maybe? More Amiibos coming out in 2022? Well, even if by some miracle Ultimate does make some news, I doubt it'd be any reason to actually watch.

 

[Staarih]

The Game Awards is less than a day away. Hoo boy, I wonder who the hell they'll reveal this year-

Oh. Right.

Ah, the first experience of an event without any potential expectations of Smash news, this is what Nintendo Directs will feel like going forward. It's refreshing, really.

Nintendo ought to have some presence at TGA though, the least in forms of third party games for Switch or something.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, I don't like the idea of my favorites being cut either, but it's really disheartening to see people being so averse to it they'd rather see the series not evolve. Cuts are a thing in every single fighting game. We don't have to like them, but we'll live. If Banjo or Sora get the axe next game, I can always come back to Ultimate.

People don't realize Ultimate itself was already a miracle. Keeping a roster of almost 90 characters isn't something one can easily replicate, much less a viable strategy in the long term. Game dev resources aren't infinite. It seems people have forgotten, but Day 1 Ultimate had only 5 non-derivative newcomers and only 4 new stages - the least we've ever had in a base Smash game.

Several modes, stages, items and ATs from Smash 4 were cut in the transition - it's likely we'd only see more of that if the team had to replicate "Everyone is Here" again. And the issues with single player modes people were talking about last page? They would likely not be adressed at all.

Ash owns an Incineroar.

It will forever be more relevant than Jigglypuff.

But people won't complain about Jigglypuff because it was made before 2007.

Recent things aren't bad and are added for legitimate reasons.

"Correcting past recency bias," just makes you sound old and cranky. Age isn't indicative of quality, importance or even fun.

I mean... going by that logic, Heracross, Sceptile, Infernape and Krookodile should all be more relevant than Puff. But barely anyone remembers this because these Pokémon came by more than 2 console generations ago and they didn't make it to Smash when they had the chance, unlike Incineroar.

I don't think Incin was a bad pick, nor do I think it's bad thing to add new mons, but not all new mons have the staying power that Lucario or Greninja had. That's just a fact.

Actually, Ash just got a Lucario - four whole gens after the Pokémon debuted, and it was already popular before. I don't think the anime is a good indicator on its own, really.

 

[Yamat08]

Several modes, stages, items and ATs from Smash 4 were cut in the transition - it's likely we'd only see more of that if the team had to replicate "Everyone is Here" again. And the issues with single player modes people were talking about last page? They would likely not be adressed at all.

Depending on the platform that the next Smash is released on, wouldn't it actually be easier to transition everything? I mean, we did lose a few things since Smash4, but then you also have to consider that, aside from the new characters and previously cut veterans, they were also giving SEVERAL stages an HD facelift (close to every one across the series' history, including those from the 3DS version of the previous entry), not to mention Omega and Battlefield variants for all of them. In comparison, the number of stages that could be ported directly from WiiU were fairly low (not sure why stages like Orbital Gate Assault and Woolly World couldn't make it, though). Basically, they've already put in a bulk of work that seems like it could be future-proofed, not to mention the heavy lifting for characters like Steve whom, should he return, the base game could already be designed with as a consideration. That's to say nothing of all the fine-tuning and general balancing they did for the entire roster.

And aside from the ATs that were upgraded to Fighters, I can't really say why we lost the ones that we did. However, Ultimate did introduce almost 30 new ones in their place (compared to 9 lost since Smash4, with 2 of those 9 now being playable). As for items, literally the only ones from Smash4 that were lost were the Spring and the Team Healer (the latter of which may as well have had its functionality replaced by the Healing Sprout and Healing Field). Again, not sure why the Spring was removed, but there are 13 new items in its place. Also, not a single Pokeball summon got cut between Smash4 and Ultimate, with the latter adding on 15 more.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Depending on the platform that the next Smash is released on, wouldn't it actually be easier to transition everything? I mean, we did lose a few things since Smash4, but then you also have to consider that, aside from the new characters and previously cut veterans, they were also giving SEVERAL stages an HD facelift (close to every one across the series' history, including those from the 3DS version of the previous entry), not to mention Omega and Battlefield variants for all of them. In comparison, the number of stages that could be ported directly from WiiU were fairly low (not sure why stages like Orbital Gate Assault and Woolly World couldn't make it, though). Basically, they've already put in a bulk of work that seems like it could be future-proofed, not to mention the heavy lifting for characters like Steve whom, should he return, the base game could already be designed with as a consideration.

And aside from the ATs that were upgraded to Fighters, I can't really say why we lost the ones that we did. However, Ultimate did introduce almost 30 new ones in their place (compared to 9 lost since Smash4, with 2 now being playable). As for items, literally the only ones from Smash4 that were lost were the Spring and the Team Healer (the latter of which may as well have had its functionality replaced by the Healing Sprout and Healing Field). Again, not sure why the Spring was removed, but there are 13 new items in its place. Also, not a single Pokeball summon got cut between Smash4 and Ultimate, with the latter adding on 15 more.

Depends. The only reason we even got these few HD facelifts and new ATs is because the bulk of stages, items and ATs came from elsewhere. I was specifically talking about new content added for Ultimate.

For Pokéballs: Sm4sh added 23 new Pokémon. Ultimate added 14 - 9 less than its predecessor.

For ATs, Ultimate did indeed add more than 4 (5 more, to be precise). But it also cut more ATs than 4 did in relation to Brawl.

As far as modes go, we lost Coin Battle, Smash Run, Smash Tour, Trophy Rush, Special Orders, Target Smash, Event Matches, several options for Multi-Man Smash and a dedicated All-Star Mode.

In return, we got WoL, Spirit Board, Squad Strike, Smashdown, Stage Morph... and that's it. Keep in mind, the first two, along with the very introduction of Spirits, were very clearly a move to save resources. Not to mention Stage Builder and Home-Run Contest could only come back as DLC.

Gameplay-wise, we only got a few touch-ups on existing mechanics. Even Parries are an evolution of another - Perfect Shielding.

That's what I'm talking about. I don't think what we got is bad, just that at some point, having to bring everything back means something else has to go - whether it means cutting a few stages, modes and items - or not adding as much new content as previous games did.

 

[Dinoman96]

In no universe is stuff like Coin Battle worth having over more characters lol

 

[3BitSaurus]

In no universe is stuff like Coin Battle worth having over more characters lol

You missed the point entirely. It isn't about the quality of modes at all. It's about there being less modes in general.

 

[Perkilator]

You missed the point entirely. It isn't about the quality of modes at all. It's about there being less modes in general.

You know, even with this in mind, I would've still at least tried to do a dedicated All-Star Mode and replace All-Star Smash with a reworked Rival Smash where you can choose a character to be your rival.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know, even with this in mind, I would've still at least tried to do a dedicated All-Star Mode and replace All-Star Smash with a reworked Rival Smash where you can choose a character to be your rival.

That's the thing - given what was done, maybe it just wasn't possible in the end.

That said, I'm intrigued by your idea. What happens after you choose a rival? Is it basically a Multi-Man vs a CPU?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean... going by that logic, Heracross, Sceptile, Infernape and Krookodile should all be more relevant than Puff. But barely anyone remembers this because these Pokémon came by more than 2 console generations ago and they didn't make it to Smash when they had the chance, unlike Incineroar.

I don't think Incin was a bad pick, nor do I think it's bad thing to add new mons, but not all new mons have the staying power that Lucario or Greninja had. That's just a fact.

Actually, Ash just got a Lucario - four whole gens after the Pokémon debuted, and it was already popular before. I don't think the anime is a good indicator on its own, really

Also, Ash didn't even have his Torracat evolve until the tail end of the SM anime. Like, after he finally won a league.

 

[Perkilator]

That's the thing - given what was done, maybe it just wasn't possible in the end.

That said, I'm intrigued by your idea. What happens after you choose a rival? Is it basically a Multi-Man vs a CPU?

Yeah, exactly? And my other idea, which was for All-Star, was this:

• Round 1: The Original 12
• Round 2: Melee veterans
• Round 3: Brawl veterans
• Round 4: 3DS / Wii U veterans
• Round 5: Ultimate newcomers

These next two are assuming you have either Fighters Pass:

• Round 6: Fighters Pass Vol. 1
• Round 7: Fighters Pass Vol. 2

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, exactly? And my other idea, which was for All-Star, was this:

• Round 1: The Original 12
• Round 2: Melee veterans
• Round 3: Brawl veterans
• Round 4: 3DS / Wii U veterans
• Round 5: Ultimate newcomers

These next two are assuming you have either Fighters Pass:

• Round 6: Fighters Pass Vol. 1
• Round 7: Fighters Pass Vol. 2

That's similar to how Brawl did a few Event Matches. Instead of dividing characters by time of release, the events were ordered by appearance in Smash (64 base roster, 64 unlockables, Melee base roster, Melee unlockables, Brawl base roster, Brawl unlockables).

 

[Simnm]

Am i the only one who thinks that tetromino is guranteed for the next game?
Unexpected?check
Represents an unrepresented genre?check
Iconic western third party?check
Unique look and moveset?check
Easy to animate?check
Easy to implement?check
Especially if you use steves code for his blocks to allow tetromino to place the tetris blocks.

Tetromino is a 99% guranteed for me

 

[Garteam]

Last night I had a dream that Super Smash Bros x Shonen Jump was announced and, honestly... I actually kind of liked it. It'll never happen because licensing enough manga characters to have a complete roster would be a nightmare even with Namco Bandai owning the game rights to a good number of those series, but I also think it might be the best way to handle a large number of cuts. It might actually be possible to sell a Smash game with 30 fewer characters than Ultimate if Goku, Naruto, and Jotaro are playable.

Once again, never going to happen, but still a fun idea.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Am i the only one who thinks that tetromino is guranteed for the next game?
Unexpected?check
Represents an unrepresented genre?check
Iconic western third party?check
Unique look and moveset?check
Easy to animate?check
Easy to implement?check
Especially if you use steves code for his blocks to allow tetromino to place the tetris blocks.

Tetromino is a 99% guranteed for me

I remember back when Smash Ultimate was just nicknamed as "Smash Switch", i wanted Tee or Ex to represent that and Puyo Puyo.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

90% of the Smash community knows cutting all the 3rd Parties would kill Smash at this point, and it was always something that was going to happen.

Guess 64 and Melee killed Smash

"We've hit the peak in terms of content" =/= "The next game is going to be a reboot with tons of cuts"

Just because the next game won't have 89 characters at launch doesn't mean it's going to have 40 characters or however large you'd realistically expect a reboot roster to be.

Didn't Sakurai say the roster would be 1/3 of Ultimate if they start from the scratch?

Last night I had a dream that Super Smash Bros x Shonen Jump was announced and, honestly... I actually kind of liked it. It'll never happen because licensing enough manga characters to have a complete roster would be a nightmare even with Namco Bandai owning the game rights to a good number of those series, but I also think it might be the best way to handle a large number of cuts. It might actually be possible to sell a Smash game with 30 fewer characters than Ultimate if Goku, Naruto, and Jotaro are playable.

Once again, never going to happen, but still a fun idea.

A smash x shonen jump crossover would be solid way from evolved and beyond Ult. We got Gaming down, lets do Gaming and Anime now.


Also guys Ik Cuts aren't popular.

People like Nabbitfan730 who for some reason think Smash is better off with less stuff (or just want to be right) and quoting this as the be-all-end-all for the future of Smash and that the cuts are happening without realizing a number of things


The second part that is important is that he's considering what the fans what, as always, and I think he already knows that answer. Now, show of hands here: Who ACTUALLY wants cuts to the roster? No, I don't mean your least favorite character or dropping an Echo or two, I'm talking who here legitimately WANTS Smash to have characters cut after we just celebrated getting some of them back and many big names for the first time?

So, we have a couple years before we will likely see Smash again, and anything Sakurai says now really doesn't matter all that much since his career IS Smash.

Man, you do like missing my point when it comes this type of discussion.

Where did I say I love cuts?

I don't like it either as much as you do. Everyone is here at the beginning was really great but we can't keep adding and adding over and over

Eventually there will be cuts, lots of them in fact. It what all fighting games go through unfortunately. Smash is no different. It's hard to accept but we have to one of way or another.

Denial and fake Hopes and Dreams aren't going help. They aren't going to the fact. Sakurai literally came out and gave the Solid confirmation of there being cuts.

He said that Everyone is here cannot happen. It is what it is. No point arguing against the inevitable.

"His career is SMASH" didn't people say the same thing about Kirby(unfortunately some say to this day) til eventually he quit?

Didn't he work on games like Metesos and Kid Icarus: Uprising?

 

[Megadoomer]

Guess 64 and Melee killed Smash

Even in Melee, third party characters were planned for the game, or at least there were talks about including them, but there wasn't enough time to include them given how tight that game's development schedule was. So as far as I know, the only game where it didn't come up was the original.

They've been part of the series for longer than it was Nintendo-only, and removing all third party characters at this point seems like a HUGE step backwards. (I understand that some companies might be uncooperative or difficult to work with, but I can't think of any reason why Sega would refuse to let Sonic the Hedgehog be included in Smash Bros.)

It would be like removing Spider-Man and the Hulk from the Marvel Cinematic Universe because their film rights aren't fully owned by Marvel - the drawbacks significantly outweigh the benefits. Alternatively, it's like how Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite removed the X-Men and Fantastic Four related characters over petty movie rights-related issues that had nothing to do with the games - nobody looked at that decision and went "yeah, that's a great idea".

 

[HyperSomari64]

Imagine if TGA had a trailer of Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2 but it's a fake-out trailer so people think that is a trailer for a new Smash character.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Famitsu revealed last week's hardware sales in Japan and Switch had a truly unbelievable 99% marketshare.

Switch software also held all Top 10 spots... pic.twitter.com/f5BhZKnKoc

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) December 9, 2021

I'm honestly shocked there are still devs that haven't jumped on the Switch yet. I'm not talking about the big names like Capcom or Bandai Namco, but companies like Idea Factory, who still primarily focus on Playstation despite the PS5's abysmal sales...

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Even in Melee, third party characters were planned for the game, or at least there were talks about including them, but there wasn't enough time to include them given how tight that game's development schedule was.

Not too dissimilar to from Sakurai and Team forced to make cuts for Smash 6 to due the overload and stress of bring them back and how tough it would make game development.

They've been part of the series for longer than it was Nintendo-only, and removing all third party characters at this point seems like a HUGE step backwards. (I understand that some companies might be uncooperative or difficult to work with, but I can't think of any reason why Sega would refuse to let Sonic the Hedgehog be included in Smash Bros.)

It would be like removing Spider-Man and the Hulk from the Marvel Cinematic Universe because their film rights aren't fully owned by Marvel - the drawbacks significantly outweigh the benefits.

Hulk hasnt made any appearances since Endgame so he's basically cut.

Also not really especially when they can focus on First party that need to help like Zelda and Kirby Franchises that desperately need more rep and add any first party that couldn't make it to Ultimate cough cough Waluigi cough.

Don't why you guys seem to forget that Nintendo has a huge catalogue of franchises to pull from. Mario and Pokemon on their own are media's BIGGEST franchises.

If Nintendo(by not being as involved like they did with Ultimate's DLC) and Sakurai play their cards right. It would be a step back. It would actually be a massive upgrade being a return to form.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm honestly shocked there are still devs that haven't jumped on the Switch yet. I'm not talking about the big names like Capcom or Bandai Namco, but companies like Idea Factory, who still primarily focus on Playstation despite the PS5's abysmal sales...

Probably some sort of exclusivity contract, no? I'm not too familiar with the situation of these companies, but I'd assume it's either that or something related to less familiarity with Nintendo platforms.

Otherwise, yeah, it's probably a matter of time. Some of them have also been selling well overseas via Steam. This applies even to old games. I remember Persona 4's Steam port hit over 1M units in about a year - if I remember correctly, these are the best numbers the game has ever seen in similar timeframes.