Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

I would lean on Gen X coming in 2026.

I thought Gen X was from 1965 to 1980.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I would lean on Gen X coming in 2026. I doubt we are going to make the jump right away to the Switch's successor, Game Freak is gunshy about new system launches. I expect something like Gen V remakes or something cute like that to be a stopgap in between. It also makes sense for them to delay Gen X for the 30th anniversary, given they have the easy turnaround of just doing Gen V remakes in its stead. Whether we get Deep Black and Vast White and Legends Kyurem or a re imagining of the Gen V style in the Gen IX engine, I think Unova will be revisited before we hop over to Gen X.

And then people will find some petty reason to complain about said remakes, just like always...

 

[Sucumbio]

I will not complain!

 

[RileyXY1]

I’m not really thinking that BW is getting a remake at this point. Right now GS deserves a remake more.

 

[Stratos]

The Super Mario Bros. Movie is amazing and respects the Mario franchise. For the 1986 anime Super Mario Bros.: The Great Mission to Rescue Princess Peach it was kind of good, for the 1993 live-action movie I'd say it was kind of interesting, but it hardly had the spirit and elements of the Mario franchise.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

The Super Mario Bros. Movie is amazing and respects the Mario franchise. For the 1986 anime Super Mario Bros.: The Great Mission to Rescue Princess Peach it was kind of good, for the 1993 live-action movie I'd say it was kind of interesting, but it hardly had the spirit and elements of the Mario franchise.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who made a direct comparison to the Mario OVA, instead of the live-action one. I don't know how weird this is, but I slightly preferred the movie overall. Don't get me wrong, the OVA had its efforts, but for some reason, the movie felt more... on point? That can't be a super odd takeaway.

 

[fogbadge]

The Super Mario Bros. Movie is amazing and respects the Mario franchise.

to the point that it has virtually no story like most of the main games

 

[Stratos]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who made a direct comparison to the Mario OVA, instead of the live-action one. I don't know how weird this is, but I slightly preferred the movie overall. Don't get me wrong, the OVA had its efforts, but for some reason, the movie felt more... on point? That can't be a super odd takeaway.

You were very impressed by the new movie The Super Mario Bros. Movie of 2023, as we all were. We all loved this new movie of Mario franchise.

 

[Sucumbio]

to the point that it has virtually no story like most of the main games

Do you mean to say the movie has little to no story or that most of the main games are like the movie with none of them having much of a story?

 

[Stratos]

I read somewhere (if I read correctly that is) that the Super Mario Bros. live action movie didn't work out because even though Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto himself gave permission to the studio that made it at the time, they weren't around to oversee the movie and that makes me think that maybe that's why they didn't make her right. But on the other hand, they should know the Mario franchise better and make it have the Mushroom Kingdom, Peach and not put Dinohattan and generally the creatures that the Mario franchise has should exist. To put it simply they should have scripted it right.

 

[fogbadge]

You were very impressed by the new movie The Super Mario Bros. Movie of 2023, as we all were. We all loved this new movie of Mario franchise.

not all I’m afraid

Do you mean to say the movie has little to no story or that most of the main games are like the movie with none of them having much of a story?

Both I suppose

 

[Sucumbio]

Hmm.. I dunno I liked 1000 year door fwiw though obviously that's a story driven game, whereas like Super Mario lore was mainly fleshed out after the game was made. But they all have stories, just maybe not appealing ones.

Speaking of which there's a rumored thousand-year door remaster for switch in the works!

 

[Wonder Smash]

I really REALLY want to watch that movie! I can't wait!

You know, the thing is, I don't think any Nintendo series should have a live-action adaptation anyway. CGI animation is right at home for them.

Back when the live action Mario movie came out, I watched it and I tried to like it because I love Mario but I just couldn't. In the end, it just made me want to play the games. You couldn't get a more accurate representation than the games themselves.

Just looking at the trailers alone, I'm always reminded of the Mario series.

Coming to think of it, that was also the fun in watching other video game-based shows like Super Mario and Captain N; just recognizing all those references to games that I played back then.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So, how many Echo Fighters do you foresee the next game having?

I think after how successful the concept was received be the greater populous, we will at least see the same number of Echo Fighters that we saw in Smash Ultimate. That would mean at least 5 echo fighters. I could see us go either with the same amount or a bit higher. I doubt the number would double, but I can easily see them do 6-8 easy to make echo fighters for the next game. I would not be shocked as well if they look at either the DLC cast of this game or the newcomers for the next game for viable echo fighters, considering they did last time with Ken and Richter. I also think that the echo fighters will have at least a majority first party slant. So if we got 7 echo fighters, we would see at most 3 third party echo fighters.

Honestly I don't think we'll get that much. Sakurai explained for Smash 4 that clones are chosen way later into development when he have some time for bonus fighters. So unless there's a director changes, I don't think he would start development with like 7-8 echo fighters in mind. Besides, Ultimate was fairly unique because of the Everyone is here, there wasn't that much room for a big numbers of newcomers, so they had to fill gaps with a bit more clones than usual. I mean, the fact that they didn't do echo fighters dlc despite having 3 years of support, knowing that those characters take less development time and ressources and that there was some fairly big request echo fighters kind of prove that clones are just not that important for Sakurai. So honestly I doubt we'll get more than 5, unless they do Everyone is here again. I actually think we'll get less clones similar to Smash 4 (so like 2-3 as late development bonus).

 

[DarthEnderX]

And then people will find some petty reason to complain about said remakes, just like always...

I never heard anyone complain about FireRed/LeafGreen/HeartGold/SoulSilver/AlphaSapphire/OmegaRuby.

People complained about Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl because they didn't do what previous remakes did. i.e. remake the games in the style of the current Pokemon gen. Instead, it was a weird side-grade.

 

[fogbadge]

Hmm.. I dunno I liked 1000 year door fwiw though obviously that's a story driven game, whereas like Super Mario lore was mainly fleshed out after the game was made. But they all have stories, just maybe not appealing ones.

i said main series

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly I don't think we'll get that much. Sakurai explained for Smash 4 that clones are chosen way later into development when he have some time for bonus fighters. So unless there's a director changes, I don't think he would start development with like 7-8 echo fighters in mind. Besides, Ultimate was fairly unique because of the Everyone is here, there wasn't that much room for a big numbers of newcomers, so they had to fill gaps with a bit more clones than usual. I mean, the fact that they didn't do echo fighters dlc despite having 3 years of support, knowing that those characters take less development time and ressources and that there was some fairly big request echo fighters kind of prove that clones are just not that important for Sakurai. So honestly I doubt we'll get more than 5, unless they do Everyone is here again. I actually think we'll get less clones similar to Smash 4 (so like 2-3 as late development bonus).

I'd like to note that's only sometimes the case. In Ultimate, the entire base roster was chosen from the start, along with Brawl too. In fact, we had more Brawl characters, clones included, planned. Ultimate, unlike Brawl, had all the base newcomers actually make base as intended. First time, and possibly the last.

Smash 64, Melee, and 4 all had last minute characters in development(as in plans, not just the last character set developed in general. It's minor, but a distinct factor. This is why Braw doesn't entirely count. The clones of it were always meant to be in. They did however nearly not make it in cause of Sonic, who delayed stuff a lot, and 6 out of the Forbidden 7 didn't get in due to him as well. Dixie Kong was cited as not being able to work properly with Diddy, though we don't legitimately know if Sonic's delay could have some part in it).

Basically? The Echo Fighters in Ultimate were meant to be there from the start. Sakurai even notes that in his various articles. It would also be the only type of Model Swap Fighter(which they're a subset of) to actually fit this mold. Other clones are variable in whether they're meant to be in from the start or not. As it isn't consistent among the first four rosters.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

And then people will find some petty reason to complain about said remakes, just like always...

I mean, the main reason people complained about BDSP was that it just was not that good. It was too faithful of a Diamond and Pearl remake, missing several of the quality of life changes made in Platinum or later games. Part of what I love about the Pokemon remakes is how they modernize their games. Take Heart Gold for instance. It brings Johto ten years forward in terms of design. I think HGSS is the definitive way to experience Johto. Or look at ORAS. The only criticism unique to that not found in its source games is the lack of Emerald's Battle Frontier. Outside of that, it does a fantastic job revisiting Hoenn.

BDSP just does not do that. The game reeks of being a half hearted concession to fans just in case Legends Arceus was poorly received when Game Freak themselves knew they were going to do something much weirder for the Sinnoh remakes. I really enjoyed Legends Arceus; its probably my second favorite Pokemon game since Gen V, only slightly behind Scarlet and Violet. BDSP on the other hand is just a 60 dollar dopamine hit of nostalgia.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I never heard anyone complain about FireRed/LeafGreen/HeartGold/SoulSilver/AlphaSapphire/OmegaRuby.

I've heard some complaints of OR/AS not being as good as Emerald from around when the game first launched. But OR/AS also benefits from being much better than its Gen 6 competition, hands down. I'm admittedly not sure if BD/SP really gets that advantage; even in comparison with the Gen 8 mainline titles, it remains a bit shaky.

 

[Perkilator]

I don’t know how this overhaul would work in practice, but I definitely trust Delzethin with the changes that we know are needed.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I'd like to note that's only sometimes the case. In Ultimate, the entire base roster was chosen from the start, along with Brawl too. In fact, we had more Brawl characters, clones included, planned. Ultimate, unlike Brawl, had all the base newcomers actually make base as intended. First time, and possibly the last.

Smash 64, Melee, and 4 all had last minute characters in development(as in plans, not just the last character set developed in general. It's minor, but a distinct factor. This is why Braw doesn't entirely count. The clones of it were always meant to be in. They did however nearly not make it in cause of Sonic, who delayed stuff a lot, and 6 out of the Forbidden 7 didn't get in due to him as well. Dixie Kong was cited as not being able to work properly with Diddy, though we don't legitimately know if Sonic's delay could have some part in it).

Basically? The Echo Fighters in Ultimate were meant to be there from the start. Sakurai even notes that in his various articles. It would also be the only type of Model Swap Fighter(which they're a subset of) to actually fit this mold. Other clones are variable in whether they're meant to be in from the start or not. As it isn't consistent among the first four rosters.

Seconding echoes being planned from the start. Sakurai and the team took a different view when it came to Echo Fighters in Smash Ultimate. They were planned from the start and they embraced them compared to the sparse, last second echoes of Smash 4. Considering this change in philosophy and the way the community reacted positively to them, I would not be shocked if they have a similar amount of echoes next time.

I will push back on the idea that Sonic denied the forbidden seven. The only thing Sonic denied was a 2007 release date. Brawl got pushed back again due to the last second addition of Sonic. Sakurai even stated if Brawl was not delayed, none of Sonic, Jigglypuff, Wolf, or Toon Link would be in. He also stated that if it was delayed again after that, we could have seen one or two more characters as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Seconding echoes being planned from the start. Sakurai and the team took a different view when it came to Echo Fighters in Smash Ultimate. They were planned from the start and they embraced them compared to the sparse, last second echoes of Smash 4. Considering this change in philosophy and the way the community reacted positively to them, I would not be shocked if they have a similar amount of echoes next time.

I will push back on the idea that Sonic denied the forbidden seven. The only thing Sonic denied was a 2007 release date. Brawl got pushed back again due to the last second addition of Sonic. Sakurai even stated if Brawl was not delayed, none of Sonic, Jigglypuff, Wolf, or Toon Link would be in. He also stated that if it was delayed again after that, we could have seen one or two more characters as well.

I never read about the latter stuff.

Huh. Well, Brawl was screwed to some degree either way. But yeah, that's going to happen if you try to set up a huge roster of options(even with some of them being clones). Not all can make it regardless of the plans. I'm just glad Ultimate pulled it off for the entire base game. Not that I wouldn't have liked another Echo at least, though, heh.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I’m not really thinking that BW is getting a remake at this point. Right now GS deserves a remake more.

I feel like they've already started hinting at Gen 5 something coming.

Legends has some weirdly placed references to Unova and Scarlet and violet has a Pokestar studios refrence.


Ive been a Pokemon fan my whole life and one thing ive noticed is that when they start to do these little nods to an older game that means that a game associated with that generation is in some kind of pre production.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I feel like they've already started hinting at Gen 5 something coming.

Legends has some weirdly placed references to Unova and Scarlet and violet has a Pokestar studios refrence.


Ive been a Pokemon fan my whole life and one thing ive noticed is that when they start to do these little nods to an older game that means that a game associated with that generation is in some kind of pre production.

I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing Pokestar Studios come back. Though my best chance at that would be B2W2 remakes, and I'm not entirely sure how likely those would be...

You're probably right about the hint stuff, though.

 

[RileyXY1]

I feel like they've already started hinting at Gen 5 something coming.

Legends has some weirdly placed references to Unova and Scarlet and violet has a Pokestar studios refrence.


Ive been a Pokemon fan my whole life and one thing ive noticed is that when they start to do these little nods to an older game that means that a game associated with that generation is in some kind of pre production.

For me Unova can wait until Gen 10. Right now Johto deserves it more, because we've gone the longest without seeing it. Outside of the VC releases that you can't get anymore because the 3DS eShop was shut down the last time a new Johto game came out was in 2009 on the original DS.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sakurai’s Game Concept video on Brawl.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, what are a few stages from the Switch era would you want/expect in the next game?
Here are a few I would like:

Lake Lapcat

The Last Resort

Mt. Tamaranch

Alive! Mall

Area Zero

Deepsea Metro

Zone 36

 

[Diddy Kong]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

 

[Sucumbio]

That snap of Deepsea Metro is ... Cool daddio


Zelda Edit for Justice

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.



So lets change that.



Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?



Lets go.

I want anything from TotK but nothing in particular, yet except maybe the redesigns we've talked about...

As for Newcomer my thoughts are leaning more towards the Impa camp.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

There was a lot of talk about Zelda pages ago.

What I want to know is are people still trying get the series that are featured in Captain N?

So far, there's:

Mega Man
Castlevania
Kid Icarus
Punch-Out!!
Metroid
Donkey Kong
The Legend of Zelda
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Tetris

And for other series that are not in but I think has a chance to be represented:

Dragon Slayer
Ninja Gaiden

...maybe more.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

"There is zero tangible differences between a character from a game or not when it comes to licensing." There is when dealing with franchise based on a Nintendo Crossover. Having a term to differentiate entities that under that umbrella works. We have that with 3rd Party for IPs still gaming related but not own by Nintendo and 4th Party for non gaming entities fits the bill.

Idk it seems to be controversial issue

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So, what are a few stages from the Switch era would you want/expect in the next game?
Here are a few I would like:
View attachment 372237
Lake Lapcat

The Last Resort

View attachment 372236
Mt. Tamaranch

View attachment 372238
Alive! Mall

Area Zero
View attachment 372240
Deepsea Metro

Zone 36

Those are all amazing choices and I really hope that the next Smash have more new stages, especially because Switch era has a lot of stages potential. The only thing I would change personally is I would put Wondaria instead of the mall to rep Forgotten land, but to be honest I wouldn't be mad at all with the mall.

As for others that you didn't mentionned:
Kamura village from Monster hunter rise

Something from Yoshi's crafted world (I don't have any specific location ideas, but the game asrt style is unique enough that it would do a cool stages, and since they removed the Wooly world stages the latest Yoshi game with a stage is Yoshi's story 64).

Maktha Wildwood from Xenoblade chronicles 3 (to be honest every area in the game would make an amazing stage)

Jubilife village from Pokémon Legends Arceus

Thule island from Bayonetta 3


Spocco square from Switch sports

 

[chocolatejr9]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

Purah, but only for the memes that'd result.

 

[fogbadge]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

well alright then

newcomer choice: everyone

TotK content:

Spoiler

the chasm would make quite a stage, fighting on the giant roots a colossal rocks
mind you there's loads of places like that in this game
there are plenty of characters, like tulin and sidon, who'd make for neat assist trophies if they can't be fighters
some of the zonai devices could make for fun items
lots of music that could be great inclusions
if smash run comes back they should have evermeans as enemies
[/is]
plenty of link's outfits would make for great mii costumes, hopefully with some of the fused weapons you can make

 

[HyperSomari64]

newcomer choice: everyone

Including the CD-I ones?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

Link

 

[dream1ng]

The Super Mario Bros. Movie is amazing and respects the Mario franchise. For the 1986 anime Super Mario Bros.: The Great Mission to Rescue Princess Peach it was kind of good, for the 1993 live-action movie I'd say it was kind of interesting, but it hardly had the spirit and elements of the Mario franchise.

It does respect the IP, but also, the writing was pretty ****ing awful.

There was room in several scenes to insert some non-throwaway dialogue to improve the depth of the characterization and cause people to emotionally invest in the characters based on the actual movie and not because "it's Mario". It's not like the movie ran long.

I read somewhere (if I read correctly that is) that the Super Mario Bros. live action movie didn't work out because even though Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto himself gave permission to the studio that made it at the time, they weren't around to oversee the movie and that makes me think that maybe that's why they didn't make her right. But on the other hand, they should know the Mario franchise better and make it have the Mushroom Kingdom, Peach and not put Dinohattan and generally the creatures that the Mario franchise has should exist. To put it simply they should have scripted it right.

The live action movie was made back when Nintendo was more lax about licensing their IP and NoA had more autonomy and the way the movie turned out was a big reason that both of those things eventually changed.

I understand what that movie was trying to do. But, aside from how bad the actual script was, I'm not sure Mario is an IP where there's room to greatly scale the edge and tone narratively and not have it feel jarring. It's not Batman.

Hmm.. I dunno I liked 1000 year door fwiw though obviously that's a story driven game, whereas like Super Mario lore was mainly fleshed out after the game was made. But they all have stories, just maybe not appealing ones.

Speaking of which there's a rumored thousand-year door remaster for switch in the works!

Seems like the exception that proves the rule to me.

And they do all have stories, but a story being as anemic as the Mario ones tend to be is an easier pill to swallow in a game, where the main element is the gameplay, versus a movie, where the main element is the story.

It's like how you can get away with the protagonist in a game being cardboard personified but in a movie that would make for one very underdeveloped character.

Sakurai even stated if Brawl was not delayed, none of Sonic, Jigglypuff, Wolf, or Toon Link would be in. He also stated that if it was delayed again after that, we could have seen one or two more characters as well.

when did this happen

Sakurai’s Game Concept video on Brawl.

Bold strategy to start the Brawl video talking about its online

I also wholeheartedly disagree with Sakurai about the Melee being too obtuse for casuals thing. I'm not some FGC Melee-only guy, but Smash by its own conception is a series designed to be highly accessible, and just because the ceiling raises if you speed the game up and have (mostly accidental) advanced tech, doesn't mean the floor raises as well. Melee was the Gamecube's best selling title, the casuals enjoyed it every bit as much.

"There is zero tangible differences between a character from a game or not when it comes to licensing." There is when dealing with franchise based on a Nintendo Crossover. Having a term to differentiate entities that under that umbrella works. We have that with 3rd Party for IPs still gaming related but not own by Nintendo and 4th Party for non gaming entities fits the bill.

Idk it seems to be controversial issue

People shouldn't treat licensing video game characters as a monolith anyway, let alone non-game characters too. Licensing is going to differ based on individual character, let alone IP, let alone company, let alone medium.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It does respect the IP, but also, the writing was pretty ****ing awful.

There was room in several scenes to insert some non-throwaway dialogue to improve the depth of the characterization and cause people to emotionally invest in the characters based on the actual movie and not because "it's Mario". It's not like the movie ran long.

You mind explaining what you mean by this? Because I haven't seen this movie but based on my longtime experience with the Mario games, depth is one thing I'm NOT expecting when I'm going to be watching a Mario movie.

 

[toonito]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

newcomer:
Impa (AOC version)

TOTK content:
Redesigned Ganondorf
maybe a Light Dragon vs Dark Dragon stage traveling across Hyrule

 

[Curious Villager]

Y'all don't talk Zelda nearly enough here.

So lets change that.

Zelda newcomer of choice? TotK content of choice?

Lets go.

I don't think TotK had anyone too standout that wasn't Zelda or Ganondorf or "the new Champions part 2"

Besides maybe Rauru and he's probably going to be thrown into the Assist Trophy pile like his buddies Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim and Tingle did before him Autobuilding Zonai stuff and whatnot....