Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Alternate costumes? Zelda, Ganondorf and Links! Smash amiibo are just straight up outdated (And the link smash amiibo is ugly)
And in Zeldas and G dorfs Case there is no Amiibo Alternative!

Also speaking of Amiibo If anyone likes Link more as a child/ Toon SCAN THE LINKS AWEKENING AMIIBO! you probablay wont be disapointed! Yeah i just couldnt resist!

Actually, Link has more than one BOTW amiibo as is. The others do lack a lot more and it’s quite annoying. We also need more repints of them. -_-

 

[Sucumbio]

Actually, Link has more than one BOTW amiibo as is. The others do lack a lot more and it’s quite annoying. We also need more repints of them. -_-

I got into them once lol got my Kirby and even trained him up but then realized I didn't want to keep buying them ...

 

[Oracle Link]

Actually, Link has more than one BOTW amiibo as is. The others do lack a lot more and it’s quite annoying. We also need more repints of them. -_-

Yeah i know link has a lot of amiibo (honestly after the LA Amiibo i think we have enough Links!
Yeah give us some more G Dorfs he only has his smash amiibo but in general this is part of a larger trend!
Zelda Barely gets any figures and when they do its usually only another link and another Zelda!

(Although i have to say i really want a marin and Link two pack from LA)

Also speaking of zelda merch they should bring out either a toon link or well my Profile Pick link costume both with these amazing masks i would kill for that! (Like a snail or somethin)

Also Also Also Seems like no one has an issue with my profile pick which i guess makes sense im in a non spoiler location with a non spoiler weapon and i think knowing you get a costume from an amiibo is useful!

 

[Ivander]

Only oddity is Solo, since he has the least popularity anywhere. Erdrick owns the East, Eight owns the West, and Luminary is in the big spotlight. Solo still would look amazing, though, and I'd love what is as close to the first DQ1 protagonist as possible, so.

Solo is far from an oddity. Dragon Quest 4 is one of the top popular DQ games in Japan, especially regarding it's cast of characters. Erdrick and the DQ5 Hero may be more popular in marketing, Eight for the West and Luminary for recency bias, but DQ4 is not that far behind in popularity. Heck, when the DQ5 Hero wasn't picked because of him using a staff rather than a sword, Solo was very quickly the next pick. No other Heroes aside from those two were looked at for the 4th Hero pick when they decided to go with 4 Heroes rather than the proposed Koopaling route.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Speaking Zelda, like everyone else am playing TotK of course and playing this reminds me again how hard the Smash situation of Zelda is yet again.

Spoiler

As is generally well known around these parts, I am 100% for Impa but this game doesn't help yet again. She's way more active than in BotW and actually surprisingly so, but old yet again which probably was to be expected. She does have Age of Calamity and Skyward Sword HD as recent titles so still in the best spot by far. AN ABSOLUTE SHAME they didn't make her young again like Purah, but I guess young Impa in the BotW lore is sort of unneeded cause of Paya, her Age of Calamity role and model and popularity being directly influeced by her.

The Champions are great options always, yet who to choose? There are argubly 4 more to choose now. As great as Sidon is, he likely won't be seen again ever after this.

Then there's Rauru. Who's a pretty okay choice I'd say. Could be one we'd see again in future titles even maybe.

Outside of Zelda and Ganondorf being reworked, I really can't predict too much here.

 

[fogbadge]

Actually, Link has more than one BOTW amiibo as is. The others do lack a lot more and it’s quite annoying. We also need more repints of them. -_-

turns to his collection of every loz amiibo.

just the two, three if you want to count of the totk one.

 

[Oracle Link]

(Funny i really worried too much about showing this costume)
Anyways Link in smash was always a weird situation do to him having so many variants i for example can say that champion link is 100% behind kirby on my fav characters list but as soon as i put this outfit on him he rockets back up to the shared spot 1 or 2!
So yeah JuSt CuTtINg YoUnG/sMaLl lInK would be a big mistake but there would be some ways they could circumvent this via costumes (for the mii and a classic moveset link specifically)
Other than that i thought about it it would be somewhat possible of having every Amiibo Link in Smash! Again maybe the Small links have to get changed slightly proportion wise but it is possible!
Other other than that we really need a term to refer to these Guys together:

I would go with small Links and you!

 

[Wonder Smash]

I wonder if the next Smash game will give us the option of picking a segment of a stage to stay for the entire match.

Like, Castle Siege for example. we can pick whether it stays on the roof of the castle for the whole match, stays in the throne room of the castle, or stays in the underground cavern. I'd like to see this for other stages like New Donk City Hall and Prism Tower too.

 

[Perkilator]

Quoting from yesterday’s article about TOTK:

Decided to celebrate TOTK’s launch day: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nZ9QfiS_rmprnt8F6EUKy-3JUdjx0yUGeVnzbZHCQrY/edit

 

[MBRedboy31]

I wonder if the next Smash game will give us the option of picking a segment of a stage to stay for the entire match.

Like, Castle Siege for example. we can pick whether it stays on the roof the whole match, stays in the throne room of the castle, or stay in the underground cavern. I'd like to see this for other stages like New Donk City Hall and Prism Tower too.

Ultimate technically already has this for some stages, but it’s exclusively used in Spirit fights and can’t be accessed for normal matches. But yeah, it’d be a really nice feature.

Maybe, when you pick a stage, a little submenu appears where you pick a variant. Most stages would just have “hazards on,” “hazards off,” “Omega,” and “Battlefield,” but transforming and traveling stages would have an option for each of their forms.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ultimate technically already has this for some stages, but it’s exclusively used in Spirit fights and can’t be accessed for normal matches. But yeah, it’d be a really nice feature.

Maybe, when you pick a stage, a little submenu appears where you pick a variant. Most stages would just have “hazards on,” “hazards off,” “Omega,” and “Battlefield,” but transforming and traveling stages would have an option for each of their forms.

Yeah, I know it's used for Spirit fights but I was talking about being used all the time. For stages like New Donk City Hall, personally, I prefer the ground.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Solo is far from an oddity. Dragon Quest 4 is one of the top popular DQ games in Japan, especially regarding it's cast of characters. Erdrick and the DQ5 Hero may be more popular in marketing, Eight for the West and Luminary for recency bias, but DQ4 is not that far behind in popularity. Heck, when the DQ5 Hero wasn't picked because of him using a staff rather than a sword, Solo was very quickly the next pick. No other Heroes aside from those two were looked at for the 4th Hero pick when they decided to go with 4 Heroes rather than the proposed Koopaling route.

Ah, fair enough. He's just not as memorable to me, then. My bad.

Either way, I want amiibo for all unique forms. I wouldn't mind a Meta Ridley amibo too~

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wonder if the next Smash game will give us the option of picking a segment of a stage to stay for the entire match.

Like, Castle Siege for example. we can pick whether it stays on the roof of the castle for the whole match, stays in the throne room of the castle, or stays in the underground cavern. I'd like to see this for other stages like New Donk City Hall and Prism Tower too.

I just want a Stage Builder using assets of already existent stages so I can rebuild the stage with the layout I want. So many beautiful stages I otherwise never really get to enjoy because it's way too chaotic to play them as is.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This would be way too much work for a feature many would consider not worth it, but I'd love for stages to have alternate color pallets ala characters. Want to play Moray Towers at sunset? Go ahead. Great Plateau Tower during a red moon? Do it. New Donk City with rain? Why not?

 

[Stratos]

What I'm looking forward to the most about the new Super Smash Bros. game is the newcomer characters and the Adventure Mode. I'll also be clear on another matter, it's true that a Nintendo Cinematic Universe excites me more than anything else, but on the other hand... is it better to just imagine it? I was thinking about it based on the fact that some people feel that if Nintendo's other IPs are released in movies as well, they must be independent.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This would be way too much work for a feature many would consider not worth it, but I'd love for stages to have alternate color pallets ala characters. Want to play Moray Towers at sunset? Go ahead. Great Plateau Tower during a red moon? Do it. New Donk City with rain? Why not?

We've had alt versions of stages before(and alt music before Brawl gave us a better style. Or was that 4 that gave us a full music selection first?), though not as heavily as this idea.

I don't think it would work for all, but it can certainly be an option for some?

 

[Stratos]

In The Super Mario Bros. Movie shows and mentions that Cranky Kong is the father of the current Donkey Kong, but as is well known they are actually grandfather and grandson and not father and son. Unless of course they put in a future movie that this Donkey Kong has a son and that son grows up to be the new Donkey Kong. Another one-in-a-million possibility is that Donkey Kong lost his parents when he was baby and was raised by his grandfather without him having told him the truth yet and because of this he is used to calling Cranky Kong father and not grandfather. To further verify my first theory, this Donkey Kong might be Donkey Kong jr as an adult.

 

[Idon]

This would be way too much work for a feature many would consider not worth it, but I'd love for stages to have alternate color pallets ala characters. Want to play Moray Towers at sunset? Go ahead. Great Plateau Tower during a red moon? Do it. New Donk City with rain? Why not?

To be honest, I don't think it'd be that much work for them to do, at least compared to the stuff they already do for some stages.

Heck, Stuff like Gaur Plain already does have a day/night cycle system. Even crazier is stuff like the moving stages which cycle between 3-6 wholly different stages or Persona straight up making 3 stages depending on what song is playing.

 

[Sucumbio]

They could at least bring back the underground Mario stage that was fun especially when you had a Jiggs spamming rest off the top

 

[Ivander]

In The Super Mario Bros. Movie shows and mentions that Cranky Kong is the father of the current Donkey Kong, but as is well known they are actually grandfather and grandson and not father and son.

It has changed quite a bit, especially when you have early statements where Donkey Kong is Cranky Kong's son and is a grown-up Donkey Kong Jr. Other times, you have Donkey Kong Jr. in the middle between Cranky and the currant Donkey Kong. So no, this isn't exactly a retcon when Cranky Kong has changed between being Donkey Kong's father or grandfather.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was looked and expanded upon for a Donkey Kong movie if they do one.

 

[Megadoomer]

One random thought that came to my head - if anyone wants a villain to be added to the next Smash game, where would you rank them on how evil they are?

1: - barely even qualifies as a villain

2: - more of a threat than someone who gets a score of 1, but just about as likely to side with the protagonists

3: - unrepentantly villainous (generally not the type to go go-karting with their arch-nemesis), but still likeable for one reason or another

4: - generally an awful person, but some small amount of sympathy can be found if you look hard enough

5: - utterly irredeemable

Admittedly, this scale isn't perfect, especially when it comes to descriptions, but I just find it amazing that all of these characters are in Smash. (and that Ganondorf actually kind of feels like Ganondorf now)

I'd be interested to see what they could do with Eggman in Smash, for example, but I'd put him at a 2. (though maybe that's because I started playing Sonic in the Gamecube era, where he generally tried to control forces that he couldn't comprehend and wound up teaming up with Sonic by the end of the game) Depending on the game, he might get bumped up to a 3, but that seems few and far between.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One random thought that came to my head - if anyone wants a villain to be added to the next Smash game, where would you rank them on how evil they are?

1: - barely even qualifies as a villain

2: - more of a threat than someone who gets a score of 1, but just about as likely to side with the protagonists

3: - unrepentantly villainous (generally not the type to go go-karting with their arch-nemesis), but still likeable for one reason or another

4: - generally an awful person, but some small amount of sympathy can be found if you look hard enough

5: - utterly irredeemable

Admittedly, this scale isn't perfect, especially when it comes to descriptions, but I just find it amazing that all of these characters are in Smash. (and that Ganondorf actually kind of feels like Ganondorf now)

I'd be interested to see what they could do with Eggman in Smash, for example, but I'd put him at a 2. (though maybe that's because I started playing Sonic in the Gamecube era, where he generally tried to control forces that he couldn't comprehend and wound up teaming up with Sonic by the end of the game) Depending on the game, he might get bumped up to a 3.

Ganondorf's big factor is that he can't hep but be evil cause he's cursed. He didn't choose to outright be evil, but it's still all he was taught to be, even without the curse, so he'd likely still stay evil if given the choice.

It's also funny when Mario was a villain for a small fraction of games. DK is kind of complicated since the one in Smash is not the actual same one as the villain himself(Cranky) either, and then there's the dubious of whether DK Jr. is Modern DK or not, further complicating things. ...Then you have the oddity of Mario VS DK, etc.

That said, King K. Rool was fairly chummy in the B&K Trailer, so Nintendo isn't entirely against the concept, and he was also in a Sports game. Unlike Bowser, he's far less likely to have fun with his enemies. He still can, but it's rare. King Dedede pretty much is a hero now anyway, and I don't even remember when he was an actual villain in the story instead of just simply an antagonist. I know he was undoubtedly a villain in the anime(till he was usurped, but he never really turned good).

If Eggman does get in the next game, we have a more updated character thanks to the events of Frontiers. Albeit, the JP version has him less of a good person for whatever reason they went with that. The US story is a bit more popular due to Eggman often being a villain with some legitimate standards more often nowadays(Sonic Boom is one of the best cartoons to go about this, having him draw the line when his family is in trouble. Even his own self-created mother he treats with utter care, as if it was his natural mother who raised him type of relationship). I'd probably put him easily above Bowser but before King K. Rool. Eggman is clearly willing to dominate the world and even break it apart regardless, but has a legitimate rivalry with Sonic and doesn't actually want him dead, just defeated so he can win and conquer. A trend that was in the adaptions pretty much from Sonic X too(which makes sense, it's actually based directly upon the games compared to being a loose adaption like the first three and the OVA). I haven't seen al of Prime, and it's not over yet, but he's a lot darker in it(though it's complicated).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Lol wtf am I reading rn.

Right?

Get back to Zelda people!

Solo is far from an oddity. Dragon Quest 4 is one of the top popular DQ games in Japan, especially regarding it's cast of characters.

Yeah. DQ4 is the first time DQ had real characters, with stories and personalities. Same for it's villain.

 

[DarthEnderX]

doublepost

 

[Sucumbio]

I remember the DQ anime showing one random night on WB or UPN or something and being like whaaa? Like there was one scene where the Hero (whose name I don't remember) feeds some huskies these seeds that make them run faster because they lit up in their mouths and I recall thinking they must be spicy.

O.o

Come to think of it, it was called Dragon Warrior instead.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I remember the DQ anime showing one random night on WB or UPN or something and being like whaaa? Like there was one scene where the Hero (whose name I don't remember) feeds some huskies these seeds that make them run faster because they lit up in their mouths and I recall thinking they must be spicy.

O.o

Come to think of it, it was called Dragon Warrior instead.

I don't even remember when they finally started localizing it as Dragon Quest. Dragon Warrior lasted into the Gameboy era, so nearly the N64. I know some games weren't localized till wayyyyyyyyy later. DW was the normal name for ages in the US.

 

[Ivander]

I don't even remember when they finally started localizing it as Dragon Quest. Dragon Warrior lasted into the Gameboy era, so nearly the N64. I know some games weren't localized till wayyyyyyyyy later. DW was the normal name for ages in the US.

It started with Dragon Quest 8. That was when it dropped the Dragon Warrior title.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It started with Dragon Quest 8. That was when it dropped the Dragon Warrior title.

I had a feeling, but wasn't sure.

 

[fogbadge]

4: - generally an awful person, but some small amount of sympathy can be found if you look hard enough

you mean if you start inventing it

 

[Megadoomer]

you mean if you start inventing it

I'm mainly going by the end of Wind Waker here, where he made comments about (or alluding to) wanting a better homeland for his people than the harsh desert, though I realize his personality will change from incarnation to incarnation.

I was mainly curious about what villains people wanted to see added to Smash, and how evil they'd be considered relative to the villains who are already in the game.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm mainly going by the end of Wind Waker here, where he made comments about (or alluding to) wanting a better homeland for his people than the harsh desert, though I realize his personality will change from incarnation to incarnation.

I was mainly curious about what villains people wanted to see added to Smash, and how evil they'd be considered relative to the villains who are already in the game.

Based on everything else he does in that game I think it’s a safe bet he wanted it for himself

 

[Oracle Link]

I wonder if the next Smash game will give us the option of picking a segment of a stage to stay for the entire match.

Like, Castle Siege for example. we can pick whether it stays on the roof of the castle for the whole match, stays in the throne room of the castle, or stays in the underground cavern. I'd like to see this for other stages like New Donk City Hall and Prism Tower too.

Yeah that would be Great also you could expand that to certain Eras from scrolling stage like 1-1s Flagpole or iconic block formation
and stuff like Dededes Arena, Bubbly clouds from dreamland!
Also that would give us 2 Bowsers castle stages aswell as Paper mario 2 stage for mario!
(They really picked the worst default area for the paper mario stage didnt they?)

 

[Sucumbio]

So while we take a break from Pokemon we picked up Control by Remedy Entertainment who was behind the classic Max Payne series. Really fun game, got me thinking about 3rd party devs... Anyone else try this or their other titles?

 

[fogbadge]

So while we take a break from Pokemon we picked up Control by Remedy Entertainment who was behind the classic Max Payne series. Really fun game, got me thinking about 3rd party devs... Anyone else try this or their other titles?

is that one of those ones that really looks like it wants to be a movie?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ganondorf in WW did show he had noble goals at one point. However, there was no way he would've been allowed to really do them thanks to Demise's Curse. He was pretty much hardlined into being evil. It's still bad with Koume and Kotake training him to be evil, and they notably have even brainwashed the Gerudo too. Even without Demise, he was outright manipulated overall.

But it is clear he does have noble thoughts either way, but he cannot properly act on those. The full part of the ending implies he may have broken Demise's hold on him, dying as his own man. Of course, they never went further into it by returning said version of Ganondorf(who could become a potential ally or a final boss situation. Or even an ally/rival combination like Shadow more or less is nowadays). He didn't really die evil so much as die a free man. They could go anywhere with it, but if you remove Demise's Curse from him, he is capable of being a good person. It may never happen, but at least he has the free will to do so. It doesn't need to either. He can absolutely deny it, but at least it's his choice to do what he was taught to be(instead of outright forced to be).

 

[fogbadge]

Ganondorf in WW did show he had noble goals at one point. However, there was no way he would've been allowed to really do them thanks to Demise's Curse. He was pretty much hardlined into being evil. It's still bad with Koume and Kotake training him to be evil, and they notably have even brainwashed the Gerudo too. Even without Demise, he was outright manipulated overall. He’s literally pure evil

But it is clear he does have noble thoughts either way, but he cannot properly act on those. The full part of the ending implies he may have broken Demise's hold on him, dying as his own man. Of course, they never went further into it by returning said version of Ganondorf(who could become a potential ally or a final boss situation. Or even an ally/rival combination like Shadow more or less is nowadays). He didn't really die evil so much as die a free man. They could go anywhere with it, but if you remove Demise's Curse from him, he is capable of being a good person. It may never happen, but at least he has the free will to do so. It doesn't need to either. He can absolutely deny it, but at least it's his choice to do what he was taught to be(instead of outright forced to be).

What version of the series have you been playing? He’s not cursed by demise he is demises curse. He’s living hate. There’s no nobility in him, he’s a megalomaniac who’d kill children and adults just as easily

 

[DarthEnderX]

I remember the DQ anime showing one random night on WB or UPN or something and being like whaaa? Like there was one scene where the Hero (whose name I don't remember) feeds some huskies these seeds that make them run faster because they lit up in their mouths and I recall thinking they must be spicy.

Come to think of it, it was called Dragon Warrior instead.

Loved that show. Had to wake up at 6AM on Saturdays to watch it.

Dragon Warrior (TV) - Anime News Network

www.animenewsnetwork.com

I don't even remember when they finally started localizing it as Dragon Quest.

Dragon Quest 8. PS2-era.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What version of the series have you been playing? He’s not cursed by demise he is demises curse. He’s living hate. There’s no nobility in him, he’s a megalomaniac who’d kill children and adults just as easily

I'm playing the one where he's an actual Gerudo man who was cursed by Demise, like many others. The one where Koume and Kotake clearly raised him to be evil, and the one where he was again corrupted in FSA to be evil yet again. Being raised even as a better person didn't work... because he's destined to be evil due to a curse. There's a reason to Triforce of Power stuck to him too, because destiny overtook the Zelda storyline.

No, he isn't living hate. Living hate cannot dream of noble goals. Those wouldn't be possible at all. He clearly spoke of noble ones. He was blatantly able to dream of good thoughts, meaning he cannot actually be cannot be identical to Demise, who shows absolutely zero hints of good thoughts.

They're blatantly different people. Ganondorf is influenced by Demise, but isn't actually a direct reincarnation of him. Doesn't match up at all in canon. The actions and thoughts are too different. Demise even at one point was hard to tell that he wasn't pretty much a generic doomsday villain with no real core goal but "destroy everything". Not even TP Ganondorf is like that, as his goal is revenge on two specific people. It's pretty notable how he isn't even going after the secondary core character, Midna. She's just in the way. He only cares about Link and Zelda(which makes sense. They are responsible). Zant's motivation is against Midna only. WW Ganondorf in addition isn't really going after Link and Zelda in particular. He just needs the Triforce pieces to restore his homeland, which is part of his motivation.

I won't go into the latest two games with Ganon/dorf in them, but that's due to immense spoilers.

So yeah, never got the idea that a person with noble goals(as said to our face) can be "a being of pure hatred". That doesn't remotely... match up at all with how WW Ganondorf ever was. Demise is actually called a curse too. The only true reincarnations are Link and Zelda(and not every single time, of course) consistently. ...And one time for Ganondorf only.

 

[Sucumbio]

is that one of those ones that really looks like it wants to be a movie?

Yeah it's ... Well I guess so lol. It's "realistic" setting is definitely evocative of the more cinematic types of games that are in the genre. The gameplay is really smooth and easy to get used to.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm playing the one where he's an actual Gerudo man who was cursed by Demise, like many others. The one where Koume and Kotake clearly raised him to be evil, and the one where he was again corrupted in FSA to be evil yet again. Being raised even as a better person didn't work... because he's destined to be evil due to a curse. There's a reason to Triforce of Power stuck to him too, because destiny overtook the Zelda storyline.

No, he isn't living hate. Living hate cannot dream of noble goals. Those wouldn't be possible at all. He clearly spoke of noble ones. He was blatantly able to dream of good thoughts, meaning he cannot actually be cannot be identical to Demise, who shows absolutely zero hints of good thoughts.

They're blatantly different people. Ganondorf is influenced by Demise, but isn't actually a direct reincarnation of him. Doesn't match up at all in canon. The actions and thoughts are too different. Demise even at one point was hard to tell that he wasn't pretty much a generic doomsday villain with no real core goal but "destroy everything". Not even TP Ganondorf is like that, as his goal is revenge on two specific people. It's pretty notable how he isn't even going after the secondary core character, Midna. She's just in the way. He only cares about Link and Zelda(which makes sense. They are responsible). Zant's motivation is against Midna only. WW Ganondorf in addition isn't really going after Link and Zelda in particular. He just needs the Triforce pieces to restore his homeland, which is part of his motivation.

I won't go into the latest two games with Ganon/dorf in them, but that's due to immense spoilers.

So yeah, never got the idea that a person with noble goals(as said to our face) can be "a being of pure hatred". That doesn't remotely... match up at all with how WW Ganondorf ever was. Demise is actually called a curse too. The only true reincarnations are Link and Zelda(and not every single time, of course) consistently. ...And one time for Ganondorf only.

What noble goals? In wind waker he talks about the difference between gerudo desert and hyrule and then says that he “coveted that wind”. He’s talking about how he’s jealous of the kingdom and that’s what spurred him to try a conqueror it. He doesn’t say anything about making anything better for anyone else he just says he wants hyrule. In fact this can be seen in the games cause the one in wind waker is the same one from ocarina of time who left his people in the desert. He has no noble goals

What demise says is “an incarnation of my hate” key word there being incarnation which means flesh and blood. He’s not talking about how his hate will take control of someone he’s saying his hate will take on a life of its own. He is the hatred

the triforce of power stuck with him cause as shiek told us the piece that remains with him was the bit he most believed in. If he was being controlled by an outside force it wouldn’t have been power would it? He’s power mad