Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

It’s interesting that the topic of FE characters has become the most debated topic in this thread. It really shows how much we’ve all thought about this topic and that we almost all agree that there should be some changes to the line up but no one agrees what

 

[JustPlainDan]

We’re talking about how we’d handle FE reps? That’s easy: cut all of them. They’ve had it too good for too long.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t understand the hatred for Fire Emblem in Smash. Sure, I don’t necessarily agree that the roster was handled the way I would have preferred but I think people are blowing things out of proportion. The fact that Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are all variants of the same base moveset means that it took a lot less development for them than most characters so they aren’t really taking a slot from other unique characters we could have had instead so the argument that we have too many characters never really felt as bad to me. Fire Emblem is also a really fun series and while I disagree with some of the choices made in Fates and Heroes, Three Houses made steps to address my issues and was one of my favorites in the series.

There are lots of properties in Smash that aren’t really my thing like Animal Crossing, Earthbound, Pikmin, Splatoon, Arms, Wii Fit, Miis, and others but I wouldn’t advocate for them to be cut because I know a lot of other people love them.

 

[JustPlainDan]

But for real, I’m not against the series having playable representation. 5 inclusions over the last 2 games was a little much, though.

 

[Gengar84]

But for real, I’m not against the series having playable representation. 5 inclusions over the last 2 games was a little much, though.

That’s fair. I agree with that. I’m a Fire Emblem fan and I was pretty disappointed in both Corrin and Byleth’s reveals. I would have been more hyped with other Fire Emblem characters but still. I feel like Zelda or several other series could have used at least one of those. The fact that we haven’t had a unique Zelda newcomer since Melee and even then, the main villain was just a Captain Falcon clone is still crazy to me.

 

[Sucumbio]

Smash 4 kind of led to the perception that FE was getting lots of extra attention. It saw the return of Roy and the addition of Corrin, Lucina and Robin. Already having Marth and Ike that brought the total from the "normal" 2 reps to 6. Then Ultimate was EiH so all 6 plus Chrom and another newcomer Byleth. 8 characters does seem a lot. But I don't mind cause I love FE lol. So 9 characters next time!

 

[Gengar84]

Smash 4 kind of led to the perception that FE was getting lots of extra attention. It saw the return of Roy and the addition of Corrin, Lucina and Robin. Already having Marth and Ike that brought the total from the "normal" 2 reps to 6. Then Ultimate was EiH so all 6 plus Chrom and another newcomer Byleth. 8 characters does seem a lot. But I don't mind cause I love FE lol. So 9 characters next time!

That’s why I like my character class idea. If we have movesets based on class and assign individual characters for each outfit slot, similarly to the Koopalings, we could have a ridiculous amount of playable Fire Emblem characters in Smash while only taking up the development time of around 5 or 6 characters. Class based movesets, rather than character based movesets are also true to the series so I think it actually makes perfect sense to go with a Bowser Jr. approach in this case. There are a few hurdles like the size difference between a few characters but there are a few solutions we could go with to address this. For extreme cases, like Hector being a giant, he could always just be a separate clone of the axe class if he had to be if resizing him wasn’t an option.

 

[JustPlainDan]

It does make me wonder about something: if Nintendo did another FE character through DLC again, how would they do it?

Another solo presentation like Byleth after letting people know a second fighter pass is happening

OR

Handle it like Hero where they’re revealed in a E3 Direct all the while a big name 3rd party character reveal is waiting in the wings

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Oh. What if we went a Pokemon Trainer route and had Lyn, Eliwood and Hector as a trio? Swap out with the cool entrance-ring-effect most FE characters have, and all three of them have unique movesets, including Hector's well-loved axes. Also the game they're from is a huge deal being the first localized FE game, so it deserves the rep. Though I'd still prefer Grima - but ideally they'd both be here.

10 (technically 12) FE CHARACTERS WHEE

 

[Sucumbio]

Before smash 4 it would have seemed almost silly to be thinking of an 8 or 9 member roster for FE. I'm not sure where it goes from here. This seems to tie into the broader notions of the total roster just expanding indefinitely. I think using the source material and existing smash gimmicks to somehow cram as many reps as possible into the next game will probably tick a lot of people off (lol Swamp Sensei and our terrible ideas). As has been pointed out the current FE reps are all super popular among fans so I think they'll stay playable but I also think the next main game(s) will have a rep.

 

[Diddy Kong]

All four are main characters. Having all three House Leaders present makes Byleth redundant on such a limited roster. But even beyond that, if it were a case where Edelgard and Dimitri were present but Claude was not, there would be a reasonable hypothetical explanation: Claude's canon Timeskip class being a Wyvern Master, a bow centric unit atop a fairly massive wyvern. I love Claude. He's easily my second favorite of the House Leaders. But considering he's over all the least popular of the three, the timeskip versions of the characters are by far the most popular variants, and a fully dismounted Claude neglects a very unique aspect about him while Edelgard's Armored Lord and Dimitri's High Lord classes are perfectly doable, Claude has plausible deniability. It's sad, but true. That's not to say he can't work, but he'd easily require the most work of the three by far.

Yes that's true, but then just make Claude an infantry archer fighter in Smash. The wyvern makes for a great recovery option, or maybe another Special where it blasts enemies with fire as it does in Three Hopes? Up B alone is great enough tho.

I mean, it doesn't have to be that deep, Claude doesn't even need to use the bow for all attacks. He has a sword in canon too, Lord is a class all House Leaders have access too, and there's a sword with his Crest, and he uses one in that one cutscenes with Nader.

Byleth doesn't need to be redundant in this case either. I imagine the Belmont's won't be there next game, and I'd rework Byleth to be based around the Sword of the Creator, and use a little magic. So Byleth sort of eases the loss of cutting both Robin (magic) and the Belmonts (ranged weapon for normals).

Also, Chrom and Lucina being Echo Fighters is not "beside the point." In fact, it perfectly illustrates the point. Awakening has so far been the only Fire Emblem game to receive more than one character, but only Robin is a fully unique character. You can't feasibly make any of the House Leaders Echo Fighters.

Then rework them and make Chrom and Lucina echoes of each other. No biggie. I couldn't justify not cutting Chrom while cutting Roy. But if we get a more unique Chrom and Lucina is his Echo, that works. Chrom could also be a semiclone of Ike and Marth, and Lucina a Echo to that.

Also the House Leaders could easily be based around the moves Byleth currently has with their weapons you know. Give Edelgard the Amyr attacks and Dimitri the Areadbahr attacks. That's already a good base, a little work is already done in this regard even on their movesets . Dimitri could even feasibly use some of the old moves of Corrin when they used the Dragon Fang lance.

It's honestly a good approach I think. Just gotta recycle some stuff.

Moveset potential isn't a good enough reason to do all of this when, again, you end up ignoring most of the franchise in favor of a single game in the process.

It's the most influential game however. And the most recent so far. New protagonists can always become DLC, and it's not like they couldn't cut the house leaders next game right.

This bit is willfully ignorant of what is actually going on in your examples. The Legend of Zelda keeps a fairly static cast, and at the time of Melee only had like six games. And again, Ganondorf and Young Link were last minute clones used as roster padding, and Zelda and Sheik were a package set at the time due to their switching mechanic. It's completely irrelevant to what you are suggesting here. The Donkey Kong Country example is even more asinine. The series keeps an ENTIRELY static cast for the most part. You don't have a new main protagonist in every ****ing Donkey Kong game.

And Pokémon is arguably an even more ridiculous point of comparison. It is literally the largest single media franchise on the planet. By all reasonable means, it is an outlier and should not be considered the norm. Any random person off the street, when asked, will know who Pikachu, Charizard, and Mewtwo are, more than likely. They've transcended the medium and became icons of popular culture itself. Fire Emblem, meanwhile, is still firmly in the realm of video games alone.

Pokemon maybe isn't the best example, of course they're iconic beyond gaming alone. DK and Zelda is different yeah, the cast tend to stick around. With Fire Emblem it doesn't. But that's another issue altogether, why should the likes of Robin, Roy and Corrin stay if they're no longer revelant ? I can excuse Lucina and Chrom due to popularity and Echo status, but the rest not so much.

Most of what you said here is entirely irrelevant (lmao, route length as a measurement of character popularity? Not to mention Dimitri's route in Hopes tends to get heavily criticized for spoiler reasons I won't get into). Here are some facts instead.

It's the best route though. I don't see the criticism. They tried to neuter both Dimitri and Edelgard from their original negative aspects however.

The in-game usage statistics taken from roughly six months after the game launched (in other words, the period of time where the most amount of people were playing the game) showed that Edelgard was the second most deployed unit in the game, second only to Dorothea, another member of (what do you know) the Black Eagles.

Dorothea as the most popular unit already proofs what am about to say, female characters in Fire Emblem tend to be the most popular. Hence Lyn is for example way more popular than Hector (and Eliwood). Generally speaking, if there are variations in character gender the female character is gonna be the more popular one. Corrin is a great example, but Byleth too.

Much about Edelgard being the most popular house leader came from marketing, she's hugely controversial as a character and many where put off by this. I don't quite expect this popularity to be lasting , not to this day.

But yeah it could be said, nonetheless I find it hard to believe she'd still be the most popular house leader.

In Heroes, whenever an A Hero Rises event takes place, usually the most requested free units are particularly meta defining and limited characters...with two exceptions: Edelgard and Dimitri, who had their base, brave, and fallen variants reach the top echelon of voting. This is a testament to both of their popularity levels. However, Edelgard always ranked considerably higher.

Finally, and most damningly, is Choose Your Legends. Some folks like to pretend this doesn't matter. However, it objectively does, as there are no fewer than two occasions where the results impacted things outside of Heroes. Namely, which Three Houses characters got Pop-up Parade figures (it's no coincidence that the six chosen were the House Leaders and then the most voted members of each respective house: Bernadetta, Felix, and Lysithea), and which formerly playable characters were excluded from Three Hopes (again, it's absolutely not a coincidence that Hanneman, Alois, Cyril, Anna, and Gilbert were the only ones cut when they were also the bottom five Three Houses characters on CYL). And in Choose Your Legends, Edelgard scored significantly higher in sheer vote count than Dimitri (who was second place) at a time when all then-currently-existing Three Houses characters were on the table for voting.

Every official source points to Edelgard being the most popular of the three. Being controversial does not diminish popularity...especially because if it did, it would affect Dimitri as well, who's also incredibly controversial.

Popular or not, I could indeed justify having Edelgard amongst Byleth and call it a day cause she's in a way the central antagonist of all the paths that aren't hers.

It's just , it wouldn't work. Byleth wouldn't use Amyr but would continue to use the Relics of Dimitri and Claude? That's even more weird than the original idea. So they way I want Byleth reworked gives way of a complete overhaul and also recycle the old moves but make full characters out of it. Dimitri could even get some moves of Corrin as I said, and maybe Claude could take some sword moves of Robin? Whilst Byleth takes the Thunder and Fire spells for Specials maybe. Edelgard could even inherit some stuff from Roy, like Flare Blade, and maybe her axe could have a mechanic that's similar to Roy's sweetspot but way stronger.

Don't say it's not practical, cause I think it's very much so.

 

[Perkilator]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

…No joke, I would’ve taken this over Piranha Plant.

 

[fogbadge]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

…No joke, I would’ve taken this over Piranha Plant.

me too

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I don’t understand the hatred for Fire Emblem in Smash. Sure, I don’t necessarily agree that the roster was handled the way I would have preferred but I think people are blowing things out of proportion. The fact that Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are all variants of the same base moveset means that it took a lot less development for them than most characters so they aren’t really taking a slot from other unique characters we could have had instead so the argument that we have too many characters never really felt as bad to me. Fire Emblem is also a really fun series and while I disagree with some of the choices made in Fates and Heroes, Three Houses made steps to address my issues and was one of my favorites in the series.

There are lots of properties in Smash that aren’t really my thing like Animal Crossing, Earthbound, Pikmin, Splatoon, Arms, Wii Fit, Miis, and others but I wouldn’t advocate for them to be cut because I know a lot of other people love them.

The problem is their representation compared to rest of the franchises. Kirby, Zelda, DK, Sonic and even AC are much bigger franchises yet they barely get the attention or reps compared to FE, some since Brawl. There is no reason why neither of those franchises should keep getting neglected whilst FE keeps getting characters. The third most repped franchises in Smash is too much

The fact that most of them are variants of the same character doesn't help things either. Just makes them all copy + paste and lazy.

 

[Sucumbio]

The problem is their representation compared to rest of the franchises. Kirby, Zelda, DK, Sonic and even AC are much bigger franchises yet they barely get the attention or reps compared to FE, some since Brawl. There is no reason why neither of those franchises should keep getting neglected whilst FE keeps getting characters. The third most repped franchises in Smash is too much

This bothers me too but the way I see it franchises with more than Kirby (3) (the creator's own franchise and tied with Star Fox and Kid Icarus another of his and despite having several more entries of note over both) means Nintendo wants it that way. Fire Emblem has 8, Zelda has 6, Mario has 12 not counting DK (3), Pokemon has 10 then there's below 3 so duos like cloud seph or Isabelle Villager or whatever. Then one offs. So it's like Nintendo has to see a reason to spend money on development of adding a character to the reps already in. That reason is based on Sales and "popularity" (sales). So... Xenoblade Chronicles prolly getting a 3rd rep as DLC... And we may see some wonky new characters as DLC. In base tho the only Franchises going up or staying even are Mario, Pokemon, Fire Emblem and maybe Zelda.

The fact that most of them are variants of the same character doesn't help things either. Just makes them all copy + paste and lazy.

We call that pandering and it's a perfectly viable strategy for Nintendo. See above.

 

[Perkilator]

My ideal FE roster in Smash:

• Marth
• Roy
• Ike
• Robin
• Lucina
• Azura
• Celica
• Chrom
• Byleth and House Leaders as Spirits

Just for those who missed it

 

[Sucumbio]

Lol I did notice the Azura shesofine

 

[ZelDan]

Fire Emblem having more reps than some bigger or higher selling franchises isn't really that big of a deal. Keep in mind that Sakurai never says anything about franchise representation having to be proportional to series success or sales or whatever (not that I recall atleast). The whole "franchise reps per sales" stuff has always been some fan-made mindset or idea (and many times is just something they'd pull out of their behind anytime a character they don't like is added).

Also, it's not like Fire Emblem is some small-time Nintendo franchise anymore. Keep in mind the series has been selling well ever since FE Awakening (except maybe FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia? But that was just a remake anyways) Fire Emblem Three Houses has been even more successful than the already successful Awakening and the successful (atleast sales-wise) FE Fates. Even Three Hopes has been doing well IIRC. Then of course there's FE heroes which is a ****huge success and is BY FAR Nintendo's most successful venture into mobile gaming.

This is without going into how Fire Emblem is a very old franchise with dozens of games made throughout the years since 1990. It's been a thing longer than Kirby, and also even Donkey Kong Country (though not DK in general, though the type of content people mostly want is DKC stuff anyways). FE has been by Nintendo's side since close to the beginning like most other "big" Nintendo IPs, and has a notable legacy itself.

 

[Lenidem]

Fire Emblem having more reps than some bigger or higher selling franchises isn't really that big of a deal. Keep in mind that Sakurai never says anything about franchise representation having to be proportional to series success or sales or whatever (not that I recall atleast). The whole "franchise reps per sales" stuff has always been some fan-made mindset or idea (and many times is just something they'd pull out of their behind anytime a character they don't like is added).

Also, it's not like Fire Emblem is some small-time Nintendo franchise anymore. Keep in mind the series has been selling well ever since FE Awakening (except maybe FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia? But that was just a remake anyways) Fire Emblem Three Houses has been even more successful than the already successful Awakening and the successful (atleast sales-wise) FE Fates. Even Three Hopes has been doing well IIRC. Then of course there's FE heroes which is a ****huge success and is BY FAR Nintendo's most successful venture into mobile gaming.

This is without going into how Fire Emblem is a very old franchise with dozens of games made throughout the years since 1990. It's been a thing longer than Kirby, and also even Donkey Kong Country (though not DK in general, though the type of content people mostly want is DKC stuff anyways). FE has been by Nintendo's side since close to the beginning like most other "big" Nintendo IPs, and has a notable legacy itself.

If you care about the cross-over aspect of Smash Bros, like most people, it is concerning that one franchise is getting so much care and attention compared to others. Talking about sales is just a way to use data, facts, to be objective rather than use vague terms like "it is huge, big, important": Fire Emblem certainly is all that, but not more than other series who don't get nearly as much.

 

[Geno Boost]

Tbh I think Zelda and Kirby deserves more reps than Fire Emblem
I agree fire emblem is big but it’s not THAT big overall the series has sold more than 16 million only
Let’s look at the other series sales in comparisons
Zelda sold more than 126 million
Kirby sold more than 38 million
So what gives fire emblem priority over them in terms of representation? It doesn’t seem fair to me
Here is how I think it should be represented without bias
, newcomer (that’s not another link or Zelda or ganon)
, newcomer, 1 echo (Galacta knight/Dark Meta Knight)
, 1 echo (//black knight)

 

[dream1ng]

Fire Emblem having more reps than some bigger or higher selling franchises isn't really that big of a deal.

To some people. Were that true unilaterally, it wouldn't be the sticking point within the fanbase it's been for half a decade.

Keep in mind that Sakurai never says anything about franchise representation having to be proportional to series success or sales or whatever (not that I recall atleast). The whole "franchise reps per sales" stuff has always been some fan-made mindset or idea (and many times is just something they'd pull out of their behind anytime a character they don't like is added).

Not really though, because when you take away FE, the hierarchy, while loose and subject to minor margins of error, does play out otherwise. Mario and Pokemon at the top, then Zelda, then Kirby and Metroid and DK, and at the bottom, you have the smaller series: Pikmin, F-Zero, Punch-Out, etc.

Of course clones add another layer to this, as they are added on a slightly different basis. And you also have to take into account that bigger but newer inclusions will have representation below that which their success might otherwise imply, such as Splatoon and Animal Crossing. But nevertheless, it's not some uncalculated, haphazard system where Earthbound would walk around with five characters while Zelda had like two.

Also, it's not like Fire Emblem is some small-time Nintendo franchise anymore. Keep in mind the series has been selling well ever since FE Awakening (except maybe FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia? But that was just a remake anyways) Fire Emblem Three Houses has been even more successful than the already successful Awakening and the successful (atleast sales-wise) FE Fates. Even Three Hopes has been doing well IIRC. Then of course there's FE heroes which is a ****huge success and is BY FAR Nintendo's most successful venture into mobile gaming.

Does justifying Fire Emblem's representation by denoting its success not stand antithetical your directly preceding point, of downplaying success translating to proportional presence?

Of course Fire Emblem is more successful than it used to be. But it's only as successful, roughly, as series with half its characters, and the others that have around its level of presence on the roster have all sold at least 100 million more units as a series. BotW, by itself, has sold 10 million more than the entire FE series. FE is successful, but by Nintendo standards, still middle-of-the-pack for its notable IP.

All this argument really does is demonstrate that Fire Emblem is about as successful as series that get far less than it does (despite several of those series being that successful for far longer), which serves to highlight the disparity in treatment.

In a few days we're going to hear about how Forgotten Land outperformed FE's best-performing title. I'm sure Dread is pretty close as well. But by then sales won't matter again. They'll start mattering when that new FE game comes out and we can talk about how big the series has become.

This is without going into how Fire Emblem is a very old franchise with dozens of games made throughout the years since 1990. It's been a thing longer than Kirby, and also even Donkey Kong Country (though not DK in general, though the type of content people mostly want is DKC stuff anyways). FE has been by Nintendo's side since close to the beginning like most other "big" Nintendo IPs, and has a notable legacy itself.

If we're going to start invoking points that don't actually move the dial, like when a series started, we may as well start bragging that Kirby has over 30 games, Metroid named and codified a genre and DK, well, has almost a decade on when FE started. There's a lot of points on each resume which are impressive but not salient factors. Let alone that Zelda fits this description even better than FE does, and is significantly more prolific.

Wars predates FE and it has no characters. It certainly doesn't need eight, but it has zero. Because it wasn't hugely successful. But if level of success isn't meaningful it should at least have one. Unless success does matter in which case why doesn't Kid Icarus have five characters? Why does Mario have so many? Maybe success is somewhat proportionate to the volume therein. Which makes exceptions stick out and draw ire, on the basis of equally qualified peers getting far less attention. Which frankly, sounds like a valid reason to criticize something.

 

[fogbadge]

Fire Emblem having more reps than some bigger or higher selling franchises isn't really that big of a deal. Keep in mind that Sakurai never says anything about franchise representation having to be proportional to series success or sales or whatever (not that I recall atleast). The whole "franchise reps per sales" stuff has always been some fan-made mindset or idea (and many times is just something they'd pull out of their behind anytime a character they don't like is added).

Also, it's not like Fire Emblem is some small-time Nintendo franchise anymore. Keep in mind the series has been selling well ever since FE Awakening (except maybe FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia? But that was just a remake anyways) Fire Emblem Three Houses has been even more successful than the already successful Awakening and the successful (atleast sales-wise) FE Fates. Even Three Hopes has been doing well IIRC. Then of course there's FE heroes which is a ****huge success and is BY FAR Nintendo's most successful venture into mobile gaming.

This is without going into how Fire Emblem is a very old franchise with dozens of games made throughout the years since 1990. It's been a thing longer than Kirby, and also even Donkey Kong Country (though not DK in general, though the type of content people mostly want is DKC stuff anyways). FE has been by Nintendo's side since close to the beginning like most other "big" Nintendo IPs, and has a notable legacy itself.

it syas something about the series does it not, that kirby and dkc have always sold like this and fe has only been doing it for 3-4 games. depending on if you count echoes.

the trouble with comparing franchises one to one is that they've all had different experiences like kirby selling this way for most of its life span and it only happening for fe in the last couple console gens. it may be a fan created mind set but it is based on the reality of how the franchises are, in other words fe is not bigger than a lot of the series it out reps

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Can we talk about literally anything else?



How about Animal Crossing? I feel it deserves a third character. Realistically, how should that character work?

 

[fogbadge]

How about Animal Crossing? I feel it deserves a third character. Realistically, how should that character work?

tom nook swinging bags of money around?

 

[Dinoman96]

Can we talk about literally anything else?



How about Animal Crossing? I feel it deserves a third character. Realistically, how should that character work?

Tom Nook, who would be Villager's equivalent to Wolf (as Isabelle is to Falco).

 

[AlRex]

I would like KK Slider with moves based off of his songs or Mr. Resetti getting angry with his pickaxe. Although IIRC, they got rid of him.

 

[Dinoman96]

I would like KK Slider with moves based off of his songs or Mr. Resetti getting angry with his pickaxe. Although IIRC, they got rid of him.

Technically, Resetti's still around. He now works for Nook Inc.'s Rescue Service, and also physically appears at The Roost after NH's 2.0 update.

 

[Lamperouge]

I hope that they add another Pokémon from the Pokémon franchise.

 

[AlRex]

I hope that they add another Pokémon from the Pokémon franchise.

It’ll happen regardless. Would be more interested in a new Pokken/Pokémon fighting game than adding them to Smash, because it’s always guaranteed to be a promo, whereas they can be more experimental in a wider roster.

 

[Gengar84]

I hope that they add another Pokémon from the Pokémon franchise.

Do you guys think those Hisuian Zoroark shorts bump up its chances as a playable character for the next Smash? I was already thinking it was a solid contender beforehand but the Pokémon Company seems to be really pushing it and I think it’s an awesome Pokémon that could represent the concept of regional variants really well. We could even get base Zoroark as an alt.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think cinderace would have been awesome so maybe since it missed on Ultimate they can be in the next game.

 

[Staarih]

For Animal Crossing, I wanna throw Raymond out there, feels like his popularity is reaching Isabelle-levels at least within the fandom.

Though in Smash, I feel like he would pretty much do what Villager and Isabelle do already.

 

[Gengar84]

I think cinderace would have been awesome so maybe since it missed on Ultimate they can be in the next game.

For some reason, I just couldn’t really get into Cinderace or the other starters from Galar. I think they are starting to feel too humanoid to me and less like creatures. They just give me more an impression of cereal mascots than anything you’d find out in the wild, even in a fantasy world. I feel like that’s a common trend with a lot of newer Pokémon but starters seem to have it the strongest. That’s not necessarily a bad thing if that’s your style but I’ve always personally preferred my Pokémon to look a bit more natural and less obvious what they’re taking direct inspiration from in their designs as a general rule.

 

[Laniv]

Can we talk about literally anything else?



How about Animal Crossing? I feel it deserves a third character. Realistically, how should that character work?

tom nook swinging bags of money around?

Tom Nook, who would be Villager's equivalent to Wolf (as Isabelle is to Falco).

You rang?

But for real, though, I believe that if Animal Crossing gets a third character, Tom Nook is next in line. I imagine he'd indeed be the Wolf to Villager and Isabelle's Fox and Falco, fighting by throwing leaves that turn into furniture on impact and gaining Bells the more attacks he lands, and spending those Bells on stronger attacks.

 

[Gengar84]

You rang?

But for real, though, I believe that if Animal Crossing gets a third character, Tom Nook is next in line. I imagine he'd indeed be the Wolf to Villager and Isabelle's Fox and Falco, fighting by throwing leaves that turn into furniture on impact and gaining Bells the more attacks he lands, and spending those Bells on stronger attacks.

I don’t know anything about Animal Crossing but do you think they could turn Isabelle into a Bowser Jr. type character in future games and just make all her alts other characters? From what I understand, they don’t really have any moves to speak of so I don’t see why it would be an issue. A lot of the characters have fairly similar builds so the skeletons should work fine too. I think that could be a fun way to get a lot more AC representation in Smash. Villager already basically uses this idea for different human designs so it could be cool to see Isabelle do the same for the animal characters.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think cinderace would have been awesome so maybe since it missed on Ultimate they can be in the next game.

Gen 8 is done now lol, just like Gen 3 and Gen 5. We're already moving onto Gen 9, and honestly we could be at like Gen 10 by the time the next Smash arrives.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fire Emblem having more reps than some bigger or higher selling franchises isn't really that big of a deal. Keep in mind that Sakurai never says anything about franchise representation having to be proportional to series success or sales or whatever (not that I recall atleast). The whole "franchise reps per sales" stuff has always been some fan-made mindset or idea (and many times is just something they'd pull out of their behind anytime a character they don't like is added).

Also, it's not like Fire Emblem is some small-time Nintendo franchise anymore. Keep in mind the series has been selling well ever since FE Awakening (except maybe FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia? But that was just a remake anyways) Fire Emblem Three Houses has been even more successful than the already successful Awakening and the successful (atleast sales-wise) FE Fates. Even Three Hopes has been doing well IIRC. Then of course there's FE heroes which is a ****huge success and is BY FAR Nintendo's most successful venture into mobile gaming.

This is without going into how Fire Emblem is a very old franchise with dozens of games made throughout the years since 1990. It's been a thing longer than Kirby, and also even Donkey Kong Country (though not DK in general, though the type of content people mostly want is DKC stuff anyways). FE has been by Nintendo's side since close to the beginning like most other "big" Nintendo IPs, and has a notable legacy itself.

This, all this. And Fire Emblem has new protagonists every game, and doesn't have a whole lot of content outside playable characters. And there are two Echoes and a semi clone on the roster, one of the Echoes being a Echo of said semi clone.

Anyways, bring in the house leaders.

 

[Gengar84]

Gen 8 is done now lol, just like Gen 3 and Gen 5. We're already moving onto Gen 9, and honestly we could be at like Gen 10 by the time the next Smash arrives.

We did get Pokémon Trainer in Brawl and Mewtwo in Melee, neither of which were from the most recent generations at the time so I wouldn’t necessarily rule it out completely.

 

[Perkilator]

Can we talk about literally anything else?

Hmm…oh, I know!

What Classic Mode routes would you liked to have seen a bit different? Here’s mine in a Google Doc; but just in case TL;DR

Spoiler: WARNING: Wall of text

• Daisy: All Mario characters
• Falco: Fighters with multiple jumps
• Ganondorf: All Melee characters
• Mr. Game & Watch: Switch to NES era
• Pit: Charcaters created in 1986
• Dark Pit: "Mirror" characters
• Wario: Free-for-alls
• PT: Different regions
• Sonic: All Brawl characters
• Olimar: Giant opponents
• Lucario: "Gimmicky" characters
• R.O.B.: SSE homage
• Toon Link: 4v4
• Little Mac: Punch-Out homage
• Greninja: Gym Types
• Mii Fighters: Mii classes
• Robin: Different spells
• Shulk: Monado Arts
• Ken: Martial artists
• Cloud: Sm4sh DLC fighters
• Corrin: Characters based on Fates
• King K. Rool: Villains vs. Heroes
• Joker: 7 deadly sinners
• Hero: JRPG characters
• Banjo & Kazooie: N64 characters
• Terry: Characters based on the original Fatal Fury
• Byleth: Characters based on FE's gameplay mechanics
• Min Min: Characters with slowly increasing physical range
• Steve: Different 3rd party characters
• Pyra / Mythra: Xeno series homage
• Sora: All (base game) characters

 

[Diddy Kong]

We did get Pokémon Trainer in Brawl and Mewtwo in Melee, neither of which were from the most recent generations at the time so I wouldn’t necessarily rule it out completely.

Difference with these characters outside of them being them and thus huge and iconic is , Mewtwo was already considered for Smash 64 and was easily one of the most requested fighters. Pokemon Trainer had relevancy through the remakes of Gen 1; FireRed and LeafGreen.

Then again, iconic status should allow them to be added at any point.