Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

I was going to say that Microsoft has only one big franchise, but then I realized you wanted to include their acquisitions too.

Yeah, Microsoft's one of those companies where you gotta consider EVERYTHING. Even stuff that may not be related.

 

[fogbadge]

I was going to say that Microsoft has only one big franchise, but then I realized you wanted to include their acquisitions too.

which one is that?

 

[Gengar84]

which one is that?

My only guesses are Halo or Gears but I’m not sure which. Probably Halo. I think the acquisitions would add a lot and are pretty much a must for a game like this. I’m not really interested in Microsoft if it doesn’t mean getting RARE, Activision/Blizzard, and Bethesda characters as well.

 

[fogbadge]

My only guesses are Halo or Gears but I’m not sure which. Probably Halo. I think the acquisitions would add a lot and are pretty much a must for a game like this. I’m not really interested in Microsoft if it doesn’t mean getting RARE, Activision/Blizzard, and Bethesda characters as well.

I thought they acquired bungie and halo with them?

 

[chocolatejr9]

I thought they acquired bungie and halo with them?

No, SONY acquired Bungie. Microsoft always owned Halo.

 

[Gengar84]

No, SONY acquired Bungie. Microsoft always owned Halo.

He might have been talking about back on the original X-Box. Halo came so early on that I can’t remember whether Bungie had always been a part of X-Box or was acquired early on.

 

[fogbadge]

One of us should look up the Wikipedia page

 

[chocolatejr9]

One of us should look up the Wikipedia page

So apparently, they WERE acquired in 2000, but split off in 2007 in favor of being independant... only to get bought by Sony this year. Ironic.

 

[SneakyLink]

To answer:

Bungie was part of the Microsoft family from 2000 until 2007 when they became independent.

Edit:

 

[DarthEnderX]

My only guesses are Halo or Gears but I’m not sure which. Probably Halo.

It's obviously Halo.

 

[Gengar84]

It's obviously Halo.

I don’t know if I’m just greatly overestimating Gears’ popularity or if most people here tend to underestimate it. I always saw it as one of Microsoft’s major IP. Not quite at the level of Halo but I didn’t think they were that far off.

 

[fogbadge]

So apparently, they WERE acquired in 2000, but split off in 2007 in favor of being independant... only to get bought by Sony this year. Ironic.

funny how things work out

 

[RodNutTakin]

This may seem like a basic opinion, but if you ask me, for a "Nintendo v. Other Company" game, out of all of the possible choices I'd go with Sega. To me, they're probably the only company I'd say that could actually rival Nintendo in terms of having a long history and diversity of IPs, especially if you take its subsidiaries into account.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Nintendo vs Shonen Jump for the memes tho

On a serious note, Nintendo vs Sega as a fighting game would be the most interesting to me, especially if they brought in a lot of those older Genesis era characters like Toejam and Earl, Vectorman, etc

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

My choice would be Nintendo VS Capcom.

As for Nintendo VS SEGA, I think the concept would be really cool, considering that there are many Nintendo & SEGA characters to choose. From obvious choices like Mario & Sonic to deep cuts like Takamaru & Kurumi for example.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly, Nintendo vs Capcom/Sega/Konami/Square would all work given the strength of their libraries. Heck Nintendo vs all the IP’s Microsoft owns would be huge.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Namco X Nintendo is the only realistic one, but i fear that the Scrimblo Bimblos are absent.

 

[Quillion]

I think Nintendo vs Sega wouldn't be quite as successful as Capcom since Sega is a little spotty on promoting their older/obscure IPs while Capcom has always been fairly good at worst. Sega has improved a lot in recent times though.

 

[fogbadge]

personally i think the concept of a nintendo vs another game company has lost its appeal due to them crossing over with everyone all the time

 

[Quillion]

personally i think the concept of a nintendo vs another game company has lost its appeal due to them crossing over with everyone all the time

Eh, I think reducing from crossing over with multiple companies to just crossing over with one COULD be a worthy sacrifice IMO. It would better allow for deep cuts from a company instead of surface cuts from multiple.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Eh, I think reducing from crossing over with multiple companies to just crossing over with one COULD be a worthy sacrifice IMO. It would better allow for deep cuts from a company instead of surface cuts from multiple.

And even franchises that don't get characters have a better chance of being highlighted via stuff like level Imagine Link battling the likes of Dante in Breath of Fire stage.

 

[Sucumbio]

Honestly, Nintendo vs Capcom/Sega/Konami/Square would all work given the strength of their libraries. Heck Nintendo vs all the IP’s Microsoft owns would be huge.

What if we had a game that has all those companies?!

 

[Ivander]

Honestly, Nintendo vs Capcom/Sega/Konami/Square would all work given the strength of their libraries. Heck Nintendo vs all the IP’s Microsoft owns would be huge.

Square is the one I feel iffy with in dedicating a crossover to alongside another company. Mostly because alot of their characters, especially their main characters, don't differ that much in terms of uniqueness and whatnot. Like some series you could certainly get more than just the human character with a sword, like Final Fantasy with Chocobos, Moogles, Black Mages, etc, Dragon Quest with the Slime family, and some Taito series like Bubble Bobble, Space Invaders and Arkanoid.
But aside from some having the different artstyle, like Dragon Quest and Chrono, the Mana series, or The World Ends with You, most Square Enix series don't really differ from each other much in terms of character variety and whatnot. Also doesn't help that most of their main characters tend to be very light-haired, whether it'd be blonde hair, silver hair, light-brown hair, etc. And in some cases, their move variety is not so different either, since most of their series are RPGs. Whereas Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, and Namco(and back then Konami too) tend to have alot of character design variety and genres among their games and casts that it makes it quite easy to distinguish who's who and from which game.
It's not necessarily a bad thing for Square since most of their series tend to be similar because that is their forte and nothing is wrong with doing games with gameplay and styles you're good with. But they don't offer a whole lot in the visual department in terms of visual variety. Like we give alot of heck to Fire Emblem characters for looking(and sometimes being) too similar. And I think there would be quite a bit of similar criticism in regards to Square Enix's choices of characters, especially when Square tends to be rather picky with games that aren't what they would want to advertise or represent.

As for the others, Capcom and Sega would probably be the easiest ones to work with due to their good relationship with Nintendo. Konami needs some major changing though before getting a crossover, since I'm positive they wouldn't allow any of the games that don't make them money nowadays, with most of their franchises that aren't Metal Gear, Castlevania, Silent Hill, Contra or Bomberman being stuck in the storeroom.

Namco X Nintendo is the only realistic one, but i fear that the Scrimblo Bimblos are absent.

Scrimblo Bimblos are absent
In a game featuring the two companies that practically invented them

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean in fairness to Konami, they have tossed in a bunch of obscure franchise characters/skins into Super Bomberman R; far more than one would have expected given their own overall lack of interest in them otherwise.

I honestly think the biggest obstacle in working with them would be reluctance to put in an excess amount of money for co-development. A lot of their development strategy has shifted towards modestly budgeted stuff largely for the Japanese market, and even with a company like Nintendo which tends to be pretty smart with their money on projects, the investment needed for a major crossover game like that would easily be the biggest game for Konami since MGS V.

 

[Sucumbio]

In a Nintendo x SE I'd go bananas with the moveset just to ensure if nothing else there's no mistaking their origins. Let's imagine it's Smash vs Square with the SE reps sent back home like in the Olympics or whatever...

I'd imagine characters like Lightning with specials geared toward paradigm shifts and stacking damage... Or Fran? Total babe with a bow. Vivi... Goosebumps just imagining his potential as a shy but potent adversary. Terra definitely a transformer with esper meter or whatever... Screw Cecil... Kain! And he can fight Krystal in like crazy staff combat or something.

I dunno the possibilities seem endless with a SE roster. Just gotta be done right.

 

[Quillion]

In a Nintendo x SE I'd go bananas with the moveset just to ensure if nothing else there's no mistaking their origins. Let's imagine it's Smash vs Square with the SE reps sent back home like in the Olympics or whatever...

I'd imagine characters like Lightning with specials geared toward paradigm shifts and stacking damage... Or Fran? Total babe with a bow. Vivi... Goosebumps just imagining his potential as a shy but potent adversary. Terra definitely a transformer with esper meter or whatever... Screw Cecil... Kain! And he can fight Krystal in like crazy staff combat or something.

I dunno the possibilities seem endless with a SE roster. Just gotta be done right.

That could also be a weakness considering the gimmickry of the recent Smash characters. Though if they make universal super specials it might not be a problem either.

 

[Ivander]

I mean in fairness to Konami, they have tossed in a bunch of obscure franchise characters/skins into Super Bomberman R; far more than one would have expected given their own overall lack of interest in them otherwise.

True, not to mention Goemon somehow getting in Smash as a Mii Costume. And some choices were rather obscure like Rumble Roses and Zone of the Enders. I'm still not having high hopes for older series though, whether it'd be Zone of the Enders, Suikoden, Boktai, Rocket Knight, etc.

I honestly think the biggest obstacle in working with them would be reluctance to put in an excess amount of money for co-development. A lot of their development strategy has shifted towards modestly budgeted stuff largely for the Japanese market, and even with a company like Nintendo which tends to be pretty smart with their money on projects, the investment needed for a major crossover game like that would easily be the biggest game for Konami since MGS V.

That is probably the big reason, with them playing safe and trying to focus on low-effort/high-reward games, especially with the mobile titles recently. And considering how they have been succeeding with some titles lately, them changing or becoming the next Capcom in terms of getting their act back together is far away for the time being.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo vs any other company as a base game seems boring to me, cause it would mean significant cuts from the Nintendo roster. And I don't like any other gaming company enough for this.

Also, what would all your reactions be if the next Smash game had this following Fire Emblem roster: Marth, Lucina, Ike, Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude. Been thinking a lot, and this seems to me the perfect Fire Emblem roster.

 

[Quillion]

Nintendo vs any other company as a base game seems boring to me, cause it would mean significant cuts from the Nintendo roster. And I don't like any other gaming company enough for this.

Only if we limit it to "even representation". Which while ideal, isn't realistic, so Smash vs [Company] could totally go for uneven representation.

Also, what would all your reactions be if the next Smash game had this following Fire Emblem roster: Marth, Lucina, Ike, Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude. Been thinking a lot, and this seems to me the perfect Fire Emblem roster.

My thoughts of it being too much 3H still stands from the other thread.

 

[osby]

Also, what would all your reactions be if the next Smash game had this following Fire Emblem roster: Marth, Lucina, Ike, Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude. Been thinking a lot, and this seems to me the perfect Fire Emblem roster.

Is this a joke or do you actually want Three Houses to have more characters than the rest of the games combined?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is this a joke or do you actually want Three Houses to have more characters than the rest of the games combined?

Pokemon has most characters from Generation 1, up until Ultimate most Zelda characters where based on Ocarina of Time and then Twilight Princess. I don't see the problem. Fire Emblem Three Houses is the biggest and most successful game, and Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude all use different weapons that are well representative of Fire Emblem as a whole. Also, no clones but Lucina.

 

[osby]

Pokemon has most characters from Generation 1, up until Ultimate most Zelda characters where based on Ocarina of Time and then Twilight Princess. I don't see the problem. Fire Emblem Three Houses is the biggest and most successful game, and Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude all use different weapons that are well representative of Fire Emblem as a whole. Also, no clones but Lucina.

I feel like there's a difference between your comparisons when Fire Emblem loses at least two unique characters. It'd be like if Zelda had a varied roster and then scrapped half of them to add BotW Champions.

Plus, fewer clones simply means fewer playstyles to choose from in this case when Roy and Chrom are basically their own characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I feel like there's a difference between your comparisons when Fire Emblem loses at least two unique characters. It'd be like if Zelda had a varied roster and then scrapped half of them to add BotW Champions.

Plus, fewer clones simply means fewer playstyles to choose from in this case when Roy and Chrom are basically their own characters.

But Zelda doesn't have that. And I'd switch the semi clones from Zelda with unique ones in a heartbeat. Infact, I often suggest removing Sheik and Ganondorf for Impa and a humanoid Calamity Ganon, and add a Champion to the mix.

 

[dream1ng]

Then I have to assume that you really don't keep up with beat'em ups because there's no way you can look at how active the genre is (especially a series like Kunio) and still somehow think that anything less than a playable representation is just "right" for them. And again, by saying that, then you're basically deciding what a characters deserves to be too.

Again, you're citing parts of the resume that are extraneous to inclusion. Being active, being a general influence, being a longstanding series... these qualities aren't useful if they lack requisite prevalence and popularity: the factors in candidates actually sought out.

You may as well start invoking personality and merchandise if you want to speed through the rest of the unimportant criteria Smash-wise.

The prevalence/popularity of the beat-em-up series we've discussed, bar Yakuza, is lower than the current standard set by the roster. It just is. The exception is Yakuza, it's not Kunio. Kunio games are quite niche; most don't even break 50k in Japan.

I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. Everybody already know that characters can get in if they're highly requested. That's nothing new.

Don't dodge the entire point about first-party, which is what you disagreed with.

I'll state it again: a series that is first-party is going to have an easier time getting included than a series that is third-party. The genre is incidental, what matters is the level of success. And the requisite threshold for first-parties is much lower. So if Nintendo had a somewhat successful beat-em-up series, it'd be much easier for that series to get in than were that same series third-party.

I don’t know if I’m just greatly overestimating Gears’ popularity or if most people here tend to underestimate it. I always saw it as one of Microsoft’s major IP. Not quite at the level of Halo but I didn’t think they were that far off.

It is a major Microsoft IP, people just never talk about it in the context of Smash. Probably because we wouldn't get Gears before we got Halo.

personally i think the concept of a nintendo vs another game company has lost its appeal due to them crossing over with everyone all the time

I think Nintendo vs. another company would be quite successful, because people love crossovers. Other third-parties have started clueing in and now more than ever do they try to make crossover fighting games, or including more guest characters in their fighting franchises.

Namco X Nintendo is the only realistic one, but i fear that the Scrimblo Bimblos are absent.

No offence meant but people really do sound absolutely ridiculous when they use Scrimblo Bimblo unironically

Nintendo vs any other company as a base game seems boring to me, cause it would mean significant cuts from the Nintendo roster. And I don't like any other gaming company enough for this.

It doesn't have to be in the Smash style just because it has Nintendo characters.

And even if it was, that wouldn't prevent more Smash. If anything, it would be Nintendo realizing they can basically make two Smash games per console that were different enough that they wouldn't cannibalize each other.

Also, what would all your reactions be if the next Smash game had this following Fire Emblem roster: Marth, Lucina, Ike, Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude. Been thinking a lot, and this seems to me the perfect Fire Emblem roster.

There being more characters from 3H than the rest of the series combined is pretty whack. It won't even be the newest title by the next Smash.

Pokemon has most characters from Generation 1, up until Ultimate most Zelda characters where based on Ocarina of Time and then Twilight Princess. I don't see the problem. Fire Emblem Three Houses is the biggest and most successful game, and Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude all use different weapons that are well representative of Fire Emblem as a whole. Also, no clones but Lucina.

Well, Three Houses, for all its success, is not Pokemon Red and Blue. Keep in mind those characters also didn't stop appearing in future Pokemon games, as the four 3H characters will once they move on from that world. Also keep in mind that we're not likely to actually get more Gen 1, and now we're probably just going to keep getting the newest gen. For better or for worse.

Also you very well know that the Zelda point is a huge false equivalency, as all those characters other than Sheik recur. No one is going to get on board with a comparison that Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are the same as the 3H house leaders.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Also, what would all your reactions be if the next Smash game had this following Fire Emblem roster: Marth, Lucina, Ike, Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude. Been thinking a lot, and this seems to me the perfect Fire Emblem roster.

2/10

What the bleeping heck happened?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Again, you're citing parts of the resume that are extraneous to inclusion. Being active, being a general influence, being a longstanding series... these qualities aren't useful if they lack requisite prevalence and popularity: the factors in candidates actually sought out.

You may as well start invoking personality and merchandise if you want to speed through the rest of the unimportant criteria Smash-wise.

The prevalence/popularity of the beat-em-up series we've discussed, bar Yakuza, is lower than the current standard set by the roster. It just is. The exception is Yakuza, it's not Kunio. Kunio games are quite niche; most don't even break 50k in Japan.

Being a general influence has always been pretty useful. Again, look at SNK.

As for the popularity of beat'em ups, with Streets of Rage 4 and TMNT Shredder's Revenge both reaching the millions, it should once again show you that the genre doesn't have a "big" problem like people claim it has. Both of those games are two recent examples of that. Heck, River City Girls is also another example of that too.

And this kind of comparison between Yakuza and Kunio is pointless because in the end, Kunio/River City is the one with presence in Smash already and not Yakuza.

Don't dodge the entire point about first-party, which is what you disagreed with.

We're not even talking about a first party series, so that's pointless. You're not really saying anything relevant here.

 

[Sucumbio]

Beat em ups tend to remain popular among fans who are already entrenched in the genre. I even bought one for ps3 ... Revenge of the Wounded Dragons. I will definitely be getting tmntsr and may get one of the Capcom collection deals... I think the point being made is not that the genre isn't popular but rather it's popularity is more locked into specific audience than say, mobile gaming, fps, mmorpgs, jrpgs, etc. I mean Fighting Games are also a part of this type of audience and could be considered a smaller audience overall than other game types. It's not a knock on the genre just a metric. Smaller genre types typically stay within a threshold of fan vets and newcomers.

 

[fogbadge]

Again, you're citing parts of the resume that are extraneous to inclusion. Being active, being a general influence, being a longstanding series... these qualities aren't useful if they lack requisite prevalence and popularity: the factors in candidates actually sought out.

You may as well start invoking personality and merchandise if you want to speed through the rest of the unimportant criteria Smash-wise.

The prevalence/popularity of the beat-em-up series we've discussed, bar Yakuza, is lower than the current standard set by the roster. It just is. The exception is Yakuza, it's not Kunio. Kunio games are quite niche; most don't even break 50k in Japan.


Don't dodge the entire point about first-party, which is what you disagreed with.

I'll state it again: a series that is first-party is going to have an easier time getting included than a series that is third-party. The genre is incidental, what matters is the level of success. And the requisite threshold for first-parties is much lower. So if Nintendo had a somewhat successful beat-em-up series, it'd be much easier for that series to get in than were that same series third-party.


It is a major Microsoft IP, people just never talk about it in the context of Smash. Probably because we wouldn't get Gears before we got Halo.


I think Nintendo vs. another company would be quite successful, because people love crossovers. Other third-parties have started clueing in and now more than ever do they try to make crossover fighting games, or including more guest characters in their fighting franchises.

No offence meant but people really do sound absolutely ridiculous when they use Scrimblo Bimblo unironically


It doesn't have to be in the Smash style just because it has Nintendo characters.

And even if it was, that wouldn't prevent more Smash. If anything, it would be Nintendo realizing they can basically make two Smash games per console that were different enough that they wouldn't cannibalize each other.


There being more characters from 3H than the rest of the series combined is pretty whack. It won't even be the newest title by the next Smash.


Well, Three Houses, for all its success, is not Pokemon Red and Blue. Keep in mind those characters also didn't stop appearing in future Pokemon games, as the four 3H characters will once they move on from that world. Also keep in mind that we're not likely to actually get more Gen 1, and now we're probably just going to keep getting the newest gen. For better or for worse.

Also you very well know that the Zelda point is a huge false equivalency, as all those characters other than Sheik recur. No one is going to get on board with a comparison that Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are the same as the 3H house leaders.

oh I was meaning personally apeal, I have no doubt such a game would be a success

 

[Chuderz]

Yesterday I talked about Ditto should be upgraded to playable now this video has been uploaded today what a coincidence

That's a very interesting take on Ditto and I'm actually totally for it. It turns Ditto more into a weird mode/character hybrid.

I've imagined it being Smash's true composite character. Its movest could be a mishmash of the Pokemon characters' moves. I don't know for sure where I'd put what but I'd try my best to give it some uniformity. Oh and it'd morph back into Ditto when it wasn't attacking so it'd get unique idle/movement animations. I think very cool character could be made with this concept.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don’t know if I’m just greatly overestimating Gears’ popularity or if most people here tend to underestimate it. I always saw it as one of Microsoft’s major IP. Not quite at the level of Halo but I didn’t think they were that far off.

It WAS that, at one point. But I think after Gears 3 it's become much less important for MS.