Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

It'll never happen but Darkstalkers content in smash would be neat.

 

[dream1ng]

Well you can't be deciding that an AT or a spirit is "just right" for a character if you're going to be saying this then.

I'm not framing it through what they deserve to be like you are to determine "what's right", I'm reading the terrain of the roster so far and framing it through their highest possible role that is still within plausibility based on existing representation and the series' status.

Because deservedness is yet another hollow quantifier. You're throwing out whole resumes as if each point is something Smash actually values. But the criteria which Smash values (primarily being prevalence and popularity) renders most beat-em-up series in inauspicious standing.

Basically, that's saying that Nintendo needs to be involved in the genre and that's never been the case.

Unless you're under the impression that Double Dragon is Nintendo series, which, I'm just letting you know, it's not.

No, what I'm saying is that because it's easier for a successful Nintendo series to get representation, if they had a lucrative beat-em-up, that series would probably be included. Just as if they had an FPS, or just another RPG or platformer. If the series was successful enough, it would probably get representation.

Nintendo doesn't have to be involved in the genre. But being first-party makes it easier to get in. If you're a third-party, the road is tougher because the bar is much higher and the pool is much larger. High enough to, currently, probably, be prohibitive for every beat-em-up series apart from Yakuza.

It's just the way it is that the genre doesn't have much in terms of blockbuster series or highly requested characters.

Not sure what does this have to do with what I said.

I wouldn't be surprised if Double Dragon and River City were influences on Smash too.

You can refer back to my point on influences - which has been cut from the reply - if you're still a bit turned around.

 

[Ivander]

i always hear about assist trophy upgrade but no pokeball upgrade is there a pokeball character you want to see it upgraded to playable?

i think would make the most sense as he is the easiest one probably as they managed to implement him in ultimate
but i actually want Deoxys to become playable we dont have a shapeshifter in smash it would be unique to have him

Some good choices like Eevee, Mimikyu, Gardevoir, Darkrai, Zoroark and Deoxys, but my personal pick is Scizor. They have been a favourite of mine since Gold & Silver and they are still one of my favourites.

 

[Perkilator]

It'll never happen but Darkstalkers content in smash would be neat.

If it did, I was thinking Jedah would make a good playable rep

 

[Arcanir]

i always hear about assist trophy upgrade but no pokeball upgrade is there a pokeball character you want to see it upgraded to playable?

i think would make the most sense as he is the easiest one probably as they managed to implement him in ultimate
but i actually want Deoxys to become playable we dont have a shapeshifter in smash it would be unique to have him

Genesect for the simple reason that I'd like to play as a mecha flying saucer bug with a cannon on its back.

 

[Ivander]

If it did, I was thinking Jedah would make a good playable rep

And we'd get Kazuya vs Jin in Smash Bros.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Meowth, Mimikyu (my pick for a Gen VII Pokemon before Incineroar came along), Genesect (my favorite legendary).

IIRC, people wanted Deoxys a lot in the pre-Brawl era.

Despite Gen III being my favorite Generation, I can't entirely decide who I want in the most. Both Gardevoir and Deoxys are awesome choices, imo.

...I also like those other three choices. Last two being my personal picks of that Gen. Meowth honestly feels missing at this point. Though I'll admit Gengar is close behind too.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm not framing it through what they deserve to be like you are to determine "what's right", I'm reading the terrain of the roster so far and framing it through their highest possible role that is still within plausibility based on existing representation and the series' status.

Because deservedness is yet another hollow quantifier. You're throwing out whole resumes as if each point is something Smash actually values. But the criteria which Smash values (primarily being prevalence and popularity) renders most beat-em-up series in inauspicious standing.

Then I have to assume that you really don't keep up with beat'em ups because there's no way you can look at how active the genre is (especially a series like Kunio) and still somehow think that anything less than a playable representation is just "right" for them. And again, by saying that, then you're basically deciding what a characters deserves to be too.

No, what I'm saying is that because it's easier for a successful Nintendo series to get representation, if they had a lucrative beat-em-up, that series would probably be included. Just as if they had an FPS, or just another RPG or platformer. If the series was successful enough, it would probably get representation.

Nintendo doesn't have to be involved in the genre. But being first-party makes it easier to get in. If you're a third-party, the road is tougher because the bar is much higher and the pool is much larger. High enough to, currently, probably, be prohibitive for every beat-em-up series apart from Yakuza.

It's just the way it is that the genre doesn't have much in terms of blockbuster series or highly requested characters.

I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. Everybody already know that characters can get in if they're highly requested. That's nothing new.

You can refer back to my point on influences - which has been cut from the reply - if you're still a bit turned around.

That had nothing to do with what I said.

 

[fogbadge]

You have yet to demonstrate any of this in a logical manner. As I've said before you're still operating under the impressions you have under the current order when hypothetically considering what I'm proposing here. Attitudes would change over time with such a fundamental change like this. You're taking your slippery slope fallacy for granted and using it to mark my character at this point as naive when anybody that's ever talked about big changes in the past has been characterized as out of step in a major way with how things are supposedly done properly. That's the majority of your contribution to this discussion now just calling my thoughts "horrible" and talking about how bad it is that I'm focused on the evils of capitalism. It wouldn't be a "disaster" no more than today's standards are a disaster at worst and I think I've elaborated enough on why it'd be preferable to what we have today. Again there's be no such thing as "stealing" in this system since it'd all be available to everyone. Nintendo would be just as entitled to make a Metal Gear Solid game as anybody else. I've steelmaned your argument and you continue to strawman me.

We're just assuming that Nintendo is more "relaxed" these days and those games are in the pipeline now? Even if they were and we don't have any reason to suspect that they are (except maybe Spikers to some extent) it still wouldn't change that we went over a decade without these creative thoughts explored and that's just the official cancellations, we're not even addressing the countless creative avenues that'd never be explored and again it's not just Nintendo either.

When did I say that this would end of the "evils of capitalism" anywhere in my thoughts here? IP and patent law are important parts of the capitalist process but there are many other structural/cultural changes that'd be required to truly move past it whether it's a revolutionary overthrowal or simply production models naturally shifting over time through political/market pressures like all the other past economic orders did though capitalism is in a unique position to hold onto its late-stage past all relevancy with it being the latest order coupled together with today's modern technologies and bad-faith use of academic disciplines (namely psychology) to back it up and protect it.

Saying there'll be nebulous/vague/overly-generalized negatives doesn't address the core of my argument and it completely takes for granted the negatives of the current system as natural and/or acceptable. I'm not saying you're capitalism's biggest fan but I'm definitely saying that your attitudes/impressions the world have been shaped by its processes just like anybody else here in this thread. I think ironically it's you that's not looking at the bigger picture here and romanticizing the status quo of today.

Lastly I'm aware of Gamefreak's history and yeah since you didn't address the contention you had about them being a corporation I assume we both agree that they were a corporation when the stole the labor value of the Pokemon artists like they (Nintendo, Creatures and the Pokemon Company as well) have done throughout their existence and that's precisely why they were materially able to accomplish this theft.

no sunshine it’s you who’s not being logical. Attitudes don’t change over night and half of your argument is based assumptions. Assumptions that the gaming public would be drawn to these radically different versions of the big ips or that they wouldn’t be put off by the less than ideal standards. The gaming audience is fickle and you have no way of knowing that attitudes would change to. Just cause the attitudes towards ownership would change doesn’t mean what people want from gaming changes

I never said you were naive but now I believe you are. There’d be no theft? Yes there would you just wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. The concept of theft has been around long before written law and money and in all the times attitudes have changed we all still agree that theft is bad. What you’re proposing is legal theft.

and you haven’t addressed my point about how it will affect smaller creatives. People who spend their whole lives working on projects only to have them stolen by someone with a bigger profile so their version gets no attention. Their dreams are stolen and they have to get by with a soul crushing job. If that isn’t still considered wrong by the attitudes of the future then we’re doomed.

this “slippery slope fallacy” of mine is based on what people do with the public domain, the works of fan fiction that people have already made. And a change in attitudes won’t change that.

what you’re suggesting is going from one extreme to the other. What you need is to find a middle ground. What you want is the opposite of where we are now but it will still have consequences if you can’t see that then you are naïve. im sorry to be so rudely blunt

 

[Diddy Kong]

i always hear about assist trophy upgrade but no pokeball upgrade is there a pokeball character you want to see it upgraded to playable?

i think would make the most sense as he is the easiest one probably as they managed to implement him in ultimate
but i actually want Deoxys to become playable we dont have a shapeshifter in smash it would be unique to have him

Deoxys, Alolan Raichu, Scizor , Snorlax and Mew would be cool.

My most wanted Pokemon newcomer however is Garchomp. Name me one other Pokemon that has such long lasting popularity that isn't from Generation 1, or 2. He basically tops it. Maybe Gardevoir and ones like Blaziken and the like too, but Garchomp would offer something more unique I feel

 

[Ivander]

Name me one other Pokemon that has such long lasting popularity that isn't from Generation 1, or 2. He basically tops it. Maybe Gardevoir and ones like Blaziken and the like too, but Garchomp would offer something more unique I feel

Probably Flygon in terms of non-Starter Pokemon and non-Legendary Pokemon. I remember quite a lot of people being unhappy about Flygon not getting a Mega Evo, especially when it was learned that they were one of the ones planned to get a Mega Evo, but didn't.

Helps that it's adorable as well and was 3rd in the Hoenn Top 30, only losing to Rayquaza and Gardevoir.

 

[osby]

Deoxys, Alolan Raichu, Scizor , Snorlax and Mew would be cool.

My most wanted Pokemon newcomer however is Garchomp. Name me one other Pokemon that has such long lasting popularity that isn't from Generation 1, or 2. He basically tops it. Maybe Gardevoir and ones like Blaziken and the like too, but Garchomp would offer something more unique I feel

I mean, I agree that Garchomp is super duper popular but it's impossible for any Pokemon not from the first two gens to have popularity as long-lasting as Gen 3 Pokemon because they weren't created then.

So you're basically just saying that it's the most popular mon from Hoenn.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean, I agree that Garchomp is super duper popular but it's impossible for any Pokemon not from the first two gens to have popularity as long-lasting as Gen 3 Pokemon because they weren't created then.

So you're basically just saying that it's the most popular mon from Hoenn.

Shinoh, Garchomp came in the fourth generation.

 

[osby]

Shinoh, Garchomp came in the fourth generation.

Whoops, my bad.

I still think it's a comparison that leaves out a bit too many Pokemon but it makes more sense now.

 

[fogbadge]

I got a bit of a soft spot for garchomp I could go for them in smash

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd picture him as a high pressure heavy weight fighter with strong ground options, range and power but not the highest speed, running speed would be great, but few moves would be laggy and be a little clumsy in the air too. Am sure he would have access to projectiles too, maybe Scale Shot or Dragon Pusle? Outrage as a move that's a grounded Flare Blitz of sorts? Earthquake too as a semi projectile that has very high hit stun and damage.

 

[Opossum]

i always hear about assist trophy upgrade but no pokeball upgrade is there a pokeball character you want to see it upgraded to playable?

i think would make the most sense as he is the easiest one probably as they managed to implement him in ultimate
but i actually want Deoxys to become playable we dont have a shapeshifter in smash it would be unique to have him

If I had to pick a top three in order, I'd pick Snorlax, Gogoat, and Abomasnow, personally. Snorlax being an eventual upgrade would also just be kind of nice because it's one of the very few Poké Ball summons to have been in every Smash game.


And yeah, as far as post-Gen I Pokémon that aren't in Smash, I'd say Garchomp, Gardevoir, and the post-Gen I Eeveelutions as a group are easily the ones that have retained the most popularity as time marched on. That's not to say that others didn't; Tyranitar, Scizor, Flygon, Chandelure, and Aegislash have also all retained their popularity to a pretty notable degree, but Gardevoir, Garchomp, the Eeveelutions are just in another league.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Snorlax in Smash would be hilarious, not gonna lie.

(Also I was Spirit Boarding. I read Eirika as "Etika" and got very confused)

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah Garchomp, Gardevoir, and some kind of thing involving Eevee if the moveset is workable are all excellent options.
I would add Gengar and Blaziken as very strong candidates also. Gengar was always pretty popular but it seems like in recent years, actually even dating back to his Mega in XY, he has really been at that next level. Blaziken has gotten its fair share of special treatment as well and might have an advantage of being able to come as a C. Falcon clone (though it is up to Sakurai, TPC, etc. if that would be an agreeable option).

 

[Geno Boost]

Yesterday I talked about Ditto should be upgraded to playable now this video has been uploaded today what a coincidence

 

[DarthEnderX]

i always hear about assist trophy upgrade but no pokeball upgrade is there a pokeball character you want to see it upgraded to playable?

No. But I'd like to see Arceus upgraded to boss.

If it did, I was thinking Jedah would make a good playable rep

Morrigan is the only choice.

Maybe Gardevoir and ones like Blaziken and the like too, but Garchomp would offer something more unique I feel

Yeah. Dragon and Ground types.

 

[fogbadge]

Morrigan

the celtic god of death?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Y'know, while I feel The Stanley Parable would work better as a stage, I'm kinda curious how they'd make Stanley work as a fighter...

 

[toonito]

i always hear about assist trophy upgrade but no pokeball upgrade is there a pokeball character you want to see it upgraded to playable?

i think would make the most sense as he is the easiest one probably as they managed to implement him in ultimate
but i actually want Deoxys to become playable we dont have a shapeshifter in smash it would be unique to have him

meowth, mew, and zoroark

 

[Ivander]

Y'know, while I feel The Stanley Parable would work better as a stage, I'm kinda curious how they'd make Stanley work as a fighter...

"When Stanley came upon two characters, one wearing a red cap and overalls to his left and another looking like a pink marshmallow to his right, he went after the one on his left."

goes to the right and punches Kirby

"This was not the correct choice and Stanley knew it perfectly well. But he couldn't help but wonder what punching the pink marshmallow would feel like. Surely soft, squishy, ballooney, probably won't feel as rough. To his surprise, they felt a little sturdier than what he thought it was going to feel like. But as he was taking a moment to take in the feeling, the character with a red cap was suddenly already on his way to get Stanley and Stanley realised he had to defend himself and battle the character coming toward him."

dodges the attack and goes to the Mushroom Kingdom warp pipe and enters it

"Stanley went into the warp pipe and appeared on the other side of the map."

Stanley goes into the warp pipe again to the other side, then enters it again

"Stanley is just ignoring the other characters and simply going into the warp pipe over and over again. Surely he knows he can't win just by doing this."

Stanley goes into the warp pipe and appears from the bottom pipe

"Well, that had to happen at some point. At least he's back in the middle of the battle where the other characters are fighting."

Stanley recovers, gets past the other characters and goes to the warp pipe on the right side and goes into again to appear on the left side

"Really? You're going back to the warp pipes? Why? If there was some clear idea on what your strategy was like dodging a Final Smash, I'd see no problem. But you're literally just going into the warp pipes continually, doing sweet FA."

Stanley keeps going into the warp pipes, ignoring the other players

"Maybe to you, there is some sort of secret victory condition to those warp pipes. Maybe when you go visit your friends, you'll say, "OH! Did you get the Warp Pipe Victory?! The Warp Pipe Victory is Amazing!" I hope your friends find this concerning."

 

[Quillion]

It'll never happen but Darkstalkers content in smash would be neat.

If the next Smash is Super Smash Bros. vs. Capcom it could happen.

Smash vs [Company] could be a good way to alleviate the franchise's stagnation ngl. Though Sonic could/should probably be the one third-party franchise to stay regardless of the main company being represented.

 

[Ivander]

If the next Smash is Super Smash Bros. vs. Capcom it could happen.

Smash vs [Company] could be a good way to alleviate the franchise's stagnation ngl. Though Sonic could/should probably be the one third-party franchise to stay regardless of the main company being represented.

I think Super Smash Bros. vs Capcom would work better as a DLC Pack rather than a game. I think part of the issue is that it feels limiting on sticking to just Nintendo and Capcom after you have added Konami, Sega, Namco, Square Enix, SNK, Microsoft and Disney into the mix. And more if you count Mii Costumes.
The second is that if it were to be a spin-off game, I don't know how exactly you would do a spin-off for Super Smash Bros without people either really raising expectations because it's Smash Bros and Capcom or really lowering expectations because it's a spin-off and only doing Nintendo and Capcom.

If just talking Nintendo and Capcom, I think it would be better to just do Nintendo vs Capcom rather than Smash Bros. vs Capcom and much like Hyrule Warriors, have it done by Capcom and focus it around the Vs. Capcom style rather than try to mix both Smash Bros and Vs. Capcom into one game. People wouldn't get confused by the title implying Smash Bros. stuff or possibly implying extra 3rd Parties, and people would know how the game is going to play like.
That said, Capcom first has to get their bearings getting back into fighting games after having some blunder moments. Hopefully, they will find their ground again with Street Fighter 6, since future Capcom fighting games will heavily depend on Street Fighter 6's reception and success.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

No. But I'd like to see Arceus upgraded to boss.

Morrigan is the only choice.

She's too sexy tho.

 

[Quillion]

If just talking Nintendo and Capcom, I think it would be better to just do Nintendo vs Capcom rather than Smash Bros. vs Capcom and much like Hyrule Warriors, have it done by Capcom and focus it around the Vs. Capcom style rather than try to mix both Smash Bros and Vs. Capcom into one game. People wouldn't get confused by the title implying Smash Bros. stuff or possibly implying extra 3rd Parties, and people would know how the game is going to play like.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a Capcom-style Nintendo vs Capcom than it be part of Smash.

If Disney and Capcom fail to reconcile, NvC could even be a semi-replacement for Marvel.

 

[MasterCheef]

If the next Smash is Super Smash Bros. vs. Capcom it could happen.

Smash vs [Company] could be a good way to alleviate the franchise's stagnation ngl. Though Sonic could/should probably be the one third-party franchise to stay regardless of the main company being represented.

Why Sonic if anyone should stay ? as Non-Capcom rep i would have to go with Steve as a primary & Hero as a secondary choice.

 

[Ivander]

No. But I'd like to see Arceus upgraded to boss.

I'd go back with Rayquaza or bring Ultra Necrozma as a Legendary Pokemon Boss. Although personally, if there's any Pokemon boss fight I really want:

Spoiler: It is...

 

[Laniv]

She's too sexy tho.

I've been thinking, despite Mai Shiranui not getting in on the "Good Boys and Girls Clause", I feel like Morrigan could be a Bayonetta situation where she can get in, but severely toned down.

If I had a nickel for every time a fighting game character whose name starts with M could be denied for Smash for suggestive themes, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but's it's weird that it's happened twice.

the celtic god of death?

I, for one, cannot wait to see Nintendo's take on Celtic mythology.

 

[Quillion]

Why Sonic if anyone should stay ? as Non-Capcom rep i would have to go with Steve as a primary & Hero as a secondary choice.

Well, Sonic is the only third-party franchise thus far who has stayed in every game since its Smash debut. That has to count for something.

I've been thinking, despite Mai Shiranui not getting in on the "Good Boys and Girls Clause", I feel like Morrigan could be a Bayonetta situation where she can get in, but severely toned down.

If I had a nickel for every time a fighting game character whose name starts with M could be denied for Smash for suggestive themes, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but's it's weird that it's happened twice.

I think the issue is that Mai's bounce and exposed thighs are very much an integral part of her character, especially since her character revolves around wanting to get with Terry's brother Andy.

Morrigan, while being a succubus, is more focused on her supernatural abilities. Felicia definitely has no chance though.

 

[Ivander]

If I had a nickel for every time a fighting game character whose name starts with M could be denied for Smash for suggestive themes, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but's it's weird that it's happened twice.

I can think of 5 others alongside those two.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Boy, I've missed like a hundred pages of debate. Hopefully I didn't miss anything too exciting happen here.
So where have I been? Long story short, I'm never getting a Razer laptop again. The prongs for the proprietary charger port outright broke, and thus the laptop is now essentially a chargeless brick. I factory reset my old 2013 HP laptop to get it back to acceptable condition and have been using it since in the wait for getting a better laptop, but the whole fiasco killed my mood on a lot of things for a good bit, and only now did I really think about this place again (apologies.)
Anyway, while I can't lay out everything right this second, I've actually revised my Smash 6 prediction roster a bit again, and I've even made myself a mini-manifesto about what non-fighter elements I predict will be in the next game, along with what direction I think Nintendo will take the series in general. I'll definitely try and share everything tomorrow if I'm not too busy/don't forget about doing so.

 

[Lenidem]

Smash vs [Company] could be a good way to alleviate the franchise's stagnation ngl. Though Sonic could/should probably be the one third-party franchise to stay regardless of the main company being represented.

Add Banjo as a former first-party, and we have a deal.

 

[fogbadge]

Why Sonic if anyone should stay ? as Non-Capcom rep i would have to go with Steve as a primary & Hero as a secondary choice.

because there are now more smash games with sonic than without. something no other 3rd party can claim

 

[Geno Boost]

Smash x capcom sounds cool but I think I would much rather have capcom develop the next smash game alongside namco
I think capcom could get more representations if they would want to make it and be part of the team
Remember we already have most Nintendo all stars so expanding 3rd parties seems like a great idea to bring more gamers from different communities to the game

 

[Gengar84]

If the next Smash is Super Smash Bros. vs. Capcom it could happen.

Smash vs [Company] could be a good way to alleviate the franchise's stagnation ngl. Though Sonic could/should probably be the one third-party franchise to stay regardless of the main company being represented.

Yeah, that’s what I’ve been suggesting for a while now myself. I think Capcom is a great choice for a crossover but my personal choice would be Nintendo vs Microsoft. Both of them being rivals with their own major consoles along with Microsoft’s acquisitions in recent years put their roster on nearly equal ground to Nintendo’s own. Not to mention that RARE could act as almost a bridge between the two companies. Another I’d love to see is Square-Enix.

Obviously I’d prefer if we could just keep building on what we have but if, for some reason, Sakurai decides that several cuts have to be made and Smash needs a smaller roster going forward, I think this would be a good way to make the games feel different and not just a lesser Ultimate. This would also be a good way to mostly cap the roster’s size at a rough number with a mostly rotating cast for half the characters.

 

[Quillion]

Yeah, that’s what I’ve been suggesting for a while now myself. I think Capcom is a great choice for a crossover but my personal choice would be Nintendo vs Microsoft. Both of them being rivals with their own major consoles along with Microsoft’s acquisitions in recent years put their roster on nearly equal ground to Nintendo’s own. Not to mention that RARE could act as almost a bridge between the two companies. Another I’d love to see is Square-Enix.

Obviously I’d prefer if we could just keep building on what we have but if, for some reason, Sakurai decides that several cuts have to be made and Smash needs a smaller roster going forward, I think this would be a good way to make the games feel different and not just a lesser Ultimate. This would also be a good way to mostly cap the roster’s size at a rough number with a mostly rotating cast for half the characters.

I was going to say that Microsoft has only one big franchise, but then I realized you wanted to include their acquisitions too.