Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean Genshin is still hypothetically going to come out on the Switch, so even if it ends up the console's successor, I think that would be enough to appease people's potential objections, if not necessarily their lack of interest in the game proper.

 

[Geno Boost]

I feel genshin is one of those games that would regarded as “flavour of the year game” then most people will move on to a different “flavour of the year game”
It’s not like Minecraft where it’s still have so much players and gets new games and updates and still pretty much going strong after 10 years of its release.
So if genshin doesn’t get something new soon then it’s just gonna die away slowly. And maybe it could even end up like Overwatch
This is why I am more in favour of Azur Lane rep when it comes to Chinese game rep it managed to grow aside from single game and became anime and manga and got entirely new game beside just being on phone and still getting new players since 2017

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Only issue I ever had with Smash Flash 1's roster was the overabundance of Sonic characters. Like, maybe up to 3 might've been okay, but even ignoring the OC's, it got really huge. The anime characters at least came from various franchises so it was spread out way better.

Though keep in mind this was way before the idea of having any 3rd party franchise in Smash having more than one character was unheard of. Even then, I'd still say 5 or more is way too much for a 3rd party franchise. I'd cap it probably at 3 realistically. They're still guests. Luckily the second Smash Flash had a more balanced roster too~ I also stopped minding the OC's a bit more at this point, especially since Giga Bowser is basically one in Smash(and partially playable, much like Master Hand, another OC).

Otherwise, the controls left a lot to be desired, but it was hardly unplayable, really, heh. I've seen worse.

As for other works, I frankly don't care if they get in cause of what company they belong to. Either the character is interesting to me or they're not. Where they come from doesn't bother me. Not that there's anything wrong with being bothered by it either, of course. Though I doubt that'll mean much in terms of what character they choose. If they can license 'em easily, and Sakurai(or whoever may be in charge later on) can make a moveset, that's ultimately what matters. Business obviously will play some role, but part of it depends a lot of factors. Nintendo is already teaming up currently with lots of companies doing dubious or outright heinous stuff. ...Nintendo's not clean either, but most companies aren't. In the end, I'm just there for the fun and games.

 

[Geno Boost]

Only issue I ever had with Smash Flash 1's roster was the overabundance of Sonic characters. Like, maybe up to 3 might've been okay, but even ignoring the OC's, it got really huge. The anime characters at least came from various franchises so it was spread out way better.

Though keep in mind this was way before the idea of having any 3rd party franchise in Smash having more than one character was unheard of. Even then, I'd still say 5 or more is way too much for a 3rd party franchise. I'd cap it probably at 3 realistically. They're still guests. Luckily the second Smash Flash had a more balanced roster too~ I also stopped minding the OC's a bit more at this point, especially since Giga Bowser is basically one in Smash(and partially playable, much like Master Hand, another OC).

Otherwise, the controls left a lot to be desired, but it was hardly unplayable, really, heh. I've seen worse.

As for other works, I frankly don't care if they get in cause of what company they belong to. Either the character is interesting to me or they're not. Where they come from doesn't bother me. Not that there's anything wrong with being bothered by it either, of course. Though I doubt that'll mean much in terms of what character they choose. If they can license 'em easily, and Sakurai(or whoever may be in charge later on) can make a moveset, that's ultimately what matters. Business obviously will play some role, but part of it depends a lot of factors. Nintendo is already teaming up currently with lots of companies doing dubious or outright heinous stuff. ...Nintendo's not clean either, but most companies aren't. In the end, I'm just there for the fun and games.

I think the internet had lack of sprite sheet resources back in 2006 which would explain why SSF1 had many Sonic characters it was due to their sprites being ripped and available around that time compared to many video games

 

[Quillion]

It's kinda baffling that we don't have an accepted/ideal "knockback platform fighter MUGEN" yet. All of the potential candidates have drawbacks.

• Rivals of Aether has the biggest community of modders, but its engine is rather limited.
• Smash Flash 2 has the biggest playerbase, but its team doesn't support mods very well, it's locked to 30fps, and its controller options aren't all that great by some accounts.
• Smash Crusade has the most mod-friendly development team, and even its base controls are modular in-game. But the modding community is rather small and its mechanics have quite a way to go (though the upcoming update wants to improve further).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the internet had lack of sprite sheet resources back in 2006 which would explain why SSF1 had many Sonic characters it was due to their sprites being ripped and available around that time compared to many video games

Would make sense. Though I don't think that's the whole story. Sonic is a popular franchise, and it wasn't that hard to imagine multiple characters, especially with super limited movesets(much like the classic Sonic games).

...Oh, right, their foolishness in referring to X plainly as MegaMan. Like, uhhhhhh... wrong person entirely. It'd be X or MegaMan X as a name. I do like the announcer for the character names, outside of that one flub.

 

[osby]

I think the internet had lack of sprite sheet resources back in 2006 which would explain why SSF1 had many Sonic characters it was due to their sprites being ripped and available around that time compared to many video games

Would make sense. Though I don't think that's the whole story. Sonic is a popular franchise, and it wasn't that hard to imagine multiple characters, especially with super limited movesets(much like the classic Sonic games).

That, and Smash fandom is historically in favor of giving the Sonic franchise a special treatment.

I can't recall how many fan rosters I've seen give Sonic more characters than some Nintendo mainstay series.

 

[Sucumbio]

Project M was lots of fun. But non mods original engine etc rivals of aether is great Super smash flash series is cool crusade is impressive... Didn't get into brawlhalla.... Actual fan made smash games are kinda rare honestly and of the ones you can play with your preferred smash controller I think the efforts they've made are astounding and way more than I'd ever expect anyone to do. So for that I'm grateful and enthusiastic for more. And now it's like a solidified genre with multiple smash clones across all systems etc. (Wait does Xbox have a platfighter?)

 

[chocolatejr9]

That, and Smash fandom is historically in favor of giving the Sonic franchise a special treatment.

I can't recall how many fan rosters I've seen give Sonic more characters than some Nintendo mainstay series.

For some people, Sonic may as well be a Nintendo IP...

 

[SPEN18]

Sonic's special treatment from Smash fans is driven by many things: a retro iconicness and widespread appeal that very few IPs are able to match, actually having multiple secondary characters such as Tails and Shadow who reach even those extremely casual audiences, a string of Nintendo-exclusive games (including but not limited to the very casual- and family-friendly Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games), and having one foot into Smash's door as early as Brawl (with high demand dating back to Melee). Most third party series don't have any of these, let alone all of them at once.

 

[Geno Boost]

I am surprised how no smash fanmade game has added a Sony rep yet despite the amount of 3rd parties and non video game characters they had
It made me think the devs don’t feel right about including any of them

 

[dream1ng]

I am surprised how no smash fanmade game has added a Sony rep yet despite the amount of 3rd parties and non video game characters they had
It made me think the devs don’t feel right about including any of them

Sony characters don't tend to get a lot of consideration for Smash because of how unlikely they seem, so just rarely being part of the conversation can result in being overlooked when likelihood isn't even an issue like this.

It's along similar lines to how a lot more third-parties used to get overlooked before additions like Cloud, Joker, Banjo, Sephiroth etc. continued to widen the gates. People still don't really give that much credence to Sony in Smash.

 

[Megadoomer]

I am surprised how no smash fanmade game has added a Sony rep yet despite the amount of 3rd parties and non video game characters they had
It made me think the devs don’t feel right about including any of them

I think the bigger issue is the apparent lack of sprites (since Sony doesn't make a ton of 2D games), at least back when many of these games were being made. Maybe they'd be able to adapt Kratos's sprites from Shovel Knight, though I'm not sure if there would be a style clash. (and even then, there aren't many attacks there compared to a Smash-like game)

A lot of the line-up, at least for games that actually get made, seems to depend on what's available - it's pretty tough to make sprites for characters from scratch, especially if their designs are complex.

 

[Geno Boost]

I think the bigger issue is the apparent lack of sprites (since Sony doesn't make a ton of 2D games), at least back when many of these games were being made. Maybe they'd be able to adapt Kratos's sprites from Shovel Knight, though I'm not sure if there would be a style clash. (and even then, there aren't many attacks there compared to a Smash-like game)

A lot of the line-up, at least for games that actually get made, seems to depend on what's available - it's pretty tough to make sprites for characters from scratch, especially if their designs are complex.

The easiest Sony rep to sprite and make playable would be Q*bert he is as easy as Kirby and Jigglypuff and surprisingly he does have a stage in smash crusade

 

[Stratos]

Since Abe from Oddworld failed to come as a character in the PlayStation All-Stars series, he may be given the opportunity to come as a newcomer to a future Super Smash Bros. game, he has a long history with Sony as well as another character which he is of the same series and he is called Stranger.

 

[Quillion]

Sonic's special treatment from Smash fans is driven by many things: a retro iconicness and widespread appeal that very few IPs are able to match, actually having multiple secondary characters such as Tails and Shadow who reach even those extremely casual audiences, a string of Nintendo-exclusive games (including but not limited to the very casual- and family-friendly Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games), and having one foot into Smash's door as early as Brawl (with high demand dating back to Melee). Most third party series don't have any of these, let alone all of them at once.

I'm actually surprised that despite Sonic being undoubtedly THE most demanded franchise to get more than one character, plus all of those other factors, Castlevania and Final Fantasy beat Sonic to the punch.

That said, I'm also glad the Smash devs don't want to give Sonic "special treatment" on account of that.

 

[3DSNinja]

I feel genshin is one of those games that would regarded as “flavour of the year game” then most people will move on to a different “flavour of the year game”
It’s not like Minecraft where it’s still have so much players and gets new games and updates and still pretty much going strong after 10 years of its release.
So if genshin doesn’t get something new soon then it’s just gonna die away slowly. And maybe it could even end up like Overwatch
This is why I am more in favour of Azur Lane rep when it comes to Chinese game rep it managed to grow aside from single game and became anime and manga and got entirely new game beside just being on phone and still getting new players since 2017

The genshin part here is laughable to me.
So, let me address that part about content first. The latest update to Genshin, 2.7, which had the Act 2 Intermission (a pretty long main questline, mind you) released as well as two new characters, came out on May 31st. As well, version 2.8, the final version before the nation of Sumeru is added to the game, is coming out on July 13th, and said update has another new character and more questlines as well as lore. It's getting content fairly regularly, 2.7 just took a bit of time, but you not knowing that it's been having these updates shows that you really do not know much about the game and how it updates, especially since you could have found out about those updates just by looking up "genshin impact latest update" on Google.

Two, it is not flavor of the month. Genshin released within 2020, specifically on September 28th. Within a year of that launch date, it made 3 billion dollars. Do you realize how insane that is? That is the highest gross any video game has made within one year of its release, period. As well, a third of its total revenue comes from Japan - and Japan is not the fondest of foreign games, so that is quite a big deal. It's not flavor of the year by any means, especially considering how much content it has. I do not think that it getting representation is ludicrous, and I do believe it staying around is an inevitability, considering how successful it's been so far.

Just thought I should correct you about it, as someone who plays and is fairly knowledgeable about Genshin

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I feel genshin is one of those games that would regarded as “flavour of the year game” then most people will move on to a different “flavour of the year game”
It’s not like Minecraft where it’s still have so much players and gets new games and updates and still pretty much going strong after 10 years of its release.
So if genshin doesn’t get something new soon then it’s just gonna die away slowly. And maybe it could even end up like Overwatch
This is why I am more in favour of Azur Lane rep when it comes to Chinese game rep it managed to grow aside from single game and became anime and manga and got entirely new game beside just being on phone and still getting new players since 2017

You do realize Genshin has been such a huge success in Japan the ****ing NY times covered it? When the world’s largest newspaper covers your game doing well in a naturally hostile market, that becomes a good feather in your cap. Combine it with it having a massive launch, one of the biggest of all time with no sign of content slowing, and calling it a flavor of the month comes off as willfully ignorant. I don’t care for Genshin, but just assuming it will be a FotM with arguments as weak as that just comes off as trying to bend over backwards to justify such an outlandish take.

I mean Genshin is still hypothetically going to come out on the Switch, so even if it ends up the console's successor, I think that would be enough to appease people's potential objections, if not necessarily their lack of interest in the game proper.

Yeah, Genshin’s switch port has been in development hell, though a large part of that is MiHoYo being screwed with their location and the need for lockdowns due to how bad COVID was there. I would not be surprised if by this time next year Genshin on the Switch is either out or gets a full blown trailer in a direct. Do not be surprised if Nintendo highlights it in a direct when it is coming.

 

[Geno Boost]

Well I guess I learned something new but let’s see where the franchise will go after few years

 

[Lionfranky]

If they add Genshin rep, it will be Aether/Lumine.
We haven't seen third party that's not protagonist coming before respective protagonist. Yeah, another generic anime swordman... but, there is always way to give different spin.
They will probably go with either summoning other characters like Ganyu, Raiden, Amber or outright swapping with them. Sure, Travelers themselves can switch their elements. But, the first option seems more likely

 

[dream1ng]

I'm actually surprised that despite Sonic being undoubtedly THE most demanded franchise to get more than one character, plus all of those other factors, Castlevania and Final Fantasy beat Sonic to the punch.

That said, I'm also glad the Smash devs don't want to give Sonic "special treatment" on account of that.

Final Fantasy probably did outmatch Sonic in Japan. And Richter might be because the moveset is a composite from the two.

Though if "special treatment" is just giving Sonic a second character due to being highly demanded, with that character themselves being a widely-known choice from a very big series... that seems pretty fair and... normal to me.

 

[SPEN18]

I'm actually surprised that despite Sonic being undoubtedly THE most demanded franchise to get more than one character, plus all of those other factors, Castlevania and Final Fantasy beat Sonic to the punch.

That said, I'm also glad the Smash devs don't want to give Sonic "special treatment" on account of that.

Well, Castlevania just has an Echo, and it is unconfirmed if Shadow is considered an Echo candidate by Sakurai.

As for Final Fantasy, well, we could have just as easily had Cloud cut in base if it had been a non-EiH situation; FF is very fortunate that negotiations with SE were as smooth as they apparently were. Many people even speculate that making Sephiroth DLC was a part of the deal insisted by SE for getting Cloud back in base; this is of course unconfirmed, but regardless I wouldn't read too much into FF getting double-dipped first because there could be so many negotiating quirks like that which catalyzed it, so many things other than Nintendo thinking FF is "most worthy" of the second rep or anything like that. We don't have that much to go on when trying to understand their process for double-dipping on 3Ps (other than it being very rare so far).

As for me, well, I am actively against FF content in Smash and I've joked before that I'd rather have two FE7 reps than two FF7 reps. But saying that shouldn't undermine what I said above.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, Genshin Impact is absolutely not flavor of the month. It's absolutely made its mark, joining the ranks of Fortnite, Minecraft, and, yes, even Pokémon as "a franchise people tried to write off as a fad that just kept going anyway."

 

[chocolatejr9]

All this talk of fads reminds me of how Fall Guys apparently made such a big comeback after going free-to-play. Imagine if THAT somehow got into Smash...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

That, and Smash fandom is historically in favor of giving the Sonic franchise a special treatment.

I can't recall how many fan rosters I've seen give Sonic more characters than some Nintendo mainstay series.

I just miss having sonic's stupid friends in a playable role.

 

[dream1ng]

Is two years long enough to declare something definitely not a fad?

And would you consider the likes of Angry Birds, Among Us and/or FNaF fads or not fads?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Is two years long enough to declare something definitely not a fad?

And would you consider the likes of Angry Birds, Among Us and/or FNaF fads or not fads?

Can confirm FNAF is NOT a fad. That series is just as alive as ever, even after Scott stopped being so directly in control.

 

[dream1ng]

Can confirm FNAF is NOT a fad. That series is just as alive as ever, even after Scott stopped being so directly in control.

It's not dead, but does that mean it's as alive as ever? I don't really see much attention that surrounds it anymore like five, six, seven years ago.

Has it not receded into a niche?

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's not dead, but does that mean it's as alive as ever? I don't really see much attention that surrounds it anymore like five, six, seven years ago.

Has it not receded into a niche?

Doesn't feel like it to me, TBH. There was a TON of buzz surrounding Security Breach, for example.

 

[dream1ng]

Doesn't feel like it to me, TBH. There was a TON of buzz surrounding Security Breach, for example.

Enough that it doesn't look like it pales in comparison to where the series was at in the mid 2010s? I do remember there being some buzz, but... it doesn't look like it's stuck around from my vantage of not actively seeking it out. To me, FNaF certainly doesn't seem inescapable anymore like it once did.

 

[Ivander]

All this talk of fads reminds me of how Fall Guys apparently made such a big comeback after going free-to-play. Imagine if THAT somehow got into Smash...

I think the Fall Guys would work as Mii Costumes(mainly Brawler, but Swordfighter and Gunner alongside would be good too). Just make them decently proportioned similar to the original models, give them color alts like the Bomberman Mii Costume, and give Mii characters a new Fall Guy voice option and boom, practically a playable Fall Guy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Enough that it doesn't look like it pales in comparison to where the series was at in the mid 2010s? I do remember there being some buzz, but... it doesn't look like it's stuck around from my vantage of not actively seeking it out. To me, FNaF certainly doesn't seem inescapable anymore like it once did.

Well now we are moving the goal posts.

FNAF definitely isnt a fad. It just has dips and rises in popularity. You know, like everything. Even Pokemon's popularity waned at times.

 

[SPEN18]

Is two years long enough to declare something definitely not a fad?

IMO, no.

But fad or no fad, I have zero interest in Genshin Impact being represented in Smash.

 

[ahemtoday]

Is two years long enough to declare something definitely not a fad?

And would you consider the likes of Angry Birds, Among Us and/or FNaF fads or not fads?

I think something can... what's the phrasing I'm looking for... be a fad without just being a fad. For instance, I would say the FNaF fad, the explosion of attention it got in the mid-tens, is over, even if FNaF itself isn't dead.

 

[SPEN18]

In other news, we'll find out very soon if there is going to be a June Direct. Seems there is going to be some backlash if there is no Direct or if it's not the E3 blowout type that people are used to. I hope that if there is no Direct then it won't be too much longer to wait for one, though I've been noticing people becoming increasingly pessimistic about it as of late. We'll see.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm actually surprised that despite Sonic being undoubtedly THE most demanded franchise to get more than one character, plus all of those other factors, Castlevania and Final Fantasy beat Sonic to the punch.

That said, I'm also glad the Smash devs don't want to give Sonic "special treatment" on account of that.

I think they're quite different cases. FF7 got Sephiroth as extra cause of his insane popularity, and Cloud vs Sephiroth is a big deal, it was also a reason to get more FF7 content into Smash. And the Castlevania reps are Echoes of each other, and both included cause seemingly both characters' abilities where used to make the moveset out of.

It's still weird that there's no second Sonic character, and I say that despite not being a fan. But, there's Bayonetta and in a way, Joker is also a Sega related character right ?

 

[SPEN18]

It's still weird that there's no second Sonic character

It wasn't weird IMO until they went so far overboard with the 3Ps. If the rate of 3P adds had always remained at the standard non-DLC rate then it would have been pretty normal to just have Sonic. Now it is sorta weird but only with respect to Sonic's status relative to the rest of the 3P content. Personally I don't really want more than just Sonic but I would have preferred it over much of the 3P content we did actually get; given my very low expectations for DLC and/or 3P reveals catering to my own asks, Tails and co. would've seemed closer to a win than most of what we got 3P-wise.

 

[Geno Boost]

Am I the only one who dislikes smash attacks?
Like why side and up and down smash all use ghosts? It’s like having Mario using Goomba for all of his smash attacks
couldn’t they think of a better move? Like from Pac-man world

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, Genshin Impact is absolutely not flavor of the month. It's absolutely made its mark, joining the ranks of Fortnite, Minecraft, and, yes, even Pokémon as "a franchise people tried to write off as a fad that just kept going anyway."

That's fine. I'll just keep writing it off as a gacha game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Am I the only one who dislikes smash attacks?
Like why side and up and down smash all use ghosts? It’s like having Mario using Goomba for all of his smash attacks
couldn’t they think of a better move? Like from Pac-man world

Pac-Man's moveset was designed to basically reference multiple Namco games in general(sadly the Bandai part of the overall company is ignored, regardless of the merger, but eh). And especially the arcade ones. So it's a more specific situation where it's just about references, less so being about Pac-Man's own abilities only.

I would've liked to see more references to his other games too, really. Pac-Man 2's hang glider could've made a neat Up B choice, for instance. Albeit, gliding has proven to be... borked at times, so maybe we dodged a bullet there.