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If you speak about sales and quantity regarding what square-enix owns then Space Invaders pretty much dominates them all and even way more recognizable and iconic than 2B https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-...op-50-highest-grossing-video-game-franchises/
Well obviously, but the odds that Space Invaders isn't overlooked as an infeasible series seem remote.
If Space Invaders gets it would be like Terry not due to requests or demand but rather to represent a big piece of gaming history it’s basically the grandfather of videos games and Taito could pretty much be represented the same way as SNK being able to include so many different Taito contents.
Well, the delayed release aspect only makes it worse; my bewilderment applies to all third party ports, but especially those which have features/graphics toned down for the Nintendo release, only release on Nintendo after the release on other platforms, or otherwise gain more of their notoriety from their releases on other platforms.
Yeah, I don't think that just appearing on a Nintendo platform is a requirement that Nintendo or Sakurai have placed on themselves, but I don't really want to argue much about that, in part because I personally advocate for even more stringent requirements on third parties. I get that it could raise the popularity or perceived likelihood a bit due to people believing in this rule, but even if it is a rule, then IMO more people should realize that going from "ineligible" to "barely eligible" isn't all that big a deal. I wasn't trying to say that it won't change some people's minds; I was more saying that I don't agree with those people's reasoning that being ported to Nintendo is a big deal for a third party character's Smash chances. It is natural for me to downplay the significance of ports, as I agree with you that if 2B gets in or Joker is retained, then it would be primarily because they're popular gaming characters in general; the ports would be a minor factor at best.
Yeah the "personal hype" factor is definitely a driver. The announcement of a port puts the older game into people's minds again and it is an easy thing to latch onto or even use to increase exposure when trying to push for a specific character. I just think that, realistically, just being ported onto a Nintendo platform (especially so late in a game's lifecycle) isn't going to move the needle any further than it's already been moved in terms of Smash chances.
Yeah, that's right, a lot of it is "common belief" in a pattern and/or rule which at least not everyone thinks is confirmed by Nintendo/Sakurai. Like "Assists disconfirm." As I sort of said above, I'm not denying that it has an impact on people's perception (and therefore also on popularity to a certain extent), but I don't agree with the line of thinking that leads people to make that change in perception, since I think that even if appearing on Nintendo is an eligibility requirement, then a port would only pass a character to the "barely on the radar" category.
Pokémon Masters EX has added Ash in the newest update. Not a playable pair just yet but used in a coming event.
— Joe Merrick (@JoeMerrick) June 28, 2022
I was not expecting this
https://t.co/ri7qNHBSVi pic.twitter.com/TV9Rfa0HaB
I guess a similar sort of thing. Sure, Ash may be in a video game but that doesn't make him historically important to video games. So even for those who would say this makes him "eligible," eligibility does not make you a strong or even remotely realistic candidate.
he may not be important to gaming but he’s still an iconic character in one of of Nintendos biggest franchises. Regardless of eligibility
I dunno. When the devs think up a roster
Honestly Fatal Fury and KoF isn't that big a piece of gaming history. It's not Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter (which we still don't have). I don't think that's why it got in. I think Sakurai liked it, it's popular enough in some places in the world, and it was cheap.
Well none of those are factors in inclusion. Why would they be? If someone wants a character in Smash, either a fan or the people who actually make the decisions, why would showing up late or not for a long time (but still showing up), and looking worse than on a more powerful console (but still looking as good as any other character when actually in Smash) matter?
There's no empirical evidence that it doesn't matter, but the evidence that it does isn't entirely definitive anyway, so we're going to stay at this impasse. Luckily, the question is now moot for 2B, and really only applies now to Chief, of the characters we actually bother discussing.
I would say Space Invaders as a fighter is closer to Pikmin and Olimar as you would be controlling the UFO that spawns the space Invaders that would fight with you the series has enough resources to make a whole moveset even more so than Duck Hunt which required other zapper games
I'm not saying it's unworkable, I just don't think it will happen. Remember, Sakurai thought Pac-Man was infeasible when he was only considering old waka waka pizza slice man and forgot the series didn't actually end in 1980. It, apparently, ended after Pac-Land.
well i am pretty sure Sakurai does indeed acknowledge the importance of Space Invaders it doesnt have to be Minecraft of the year 2020s in order for inclusion if he can make Steve work and put much effort into it so could Space InvadersI'm not saying it's unworkable, I just don't think it will happen. Remember, Sakurai thought Pac-Man was infeasible when he was only considering old waka waka pizza slice man and forgot the series didn't actually end in 1980. It, apparently, ended after Pac-Land.
And given it's a third-party, I don't think Sakurai is going to try to wrap his head around it as much to get it working as he would were it first-party. And given it's the 2020s and it's Space Invaders and not, y'know, Minecraft, I don't think Executive With Glasses™ is going to come to "ask" Sakurai to reconsider.
So I'm going to take Space Invaders off the table as a likely option, relegate it to a very long shot. To that end, I think 2B has among, if not the the best shot from Square. But she's not in some uncontested space or anything. Square's stable is one of the better ones, even without Eidos.
I hope Space Invaders gets some sort of representation in Smash at some point.
— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) May 13, 2020
Space Invaders inspired a generation of game makers including Satoshi Tajiri and Sakurai.
1/2: Sakurai using Space Invaders in his GDC talk Risk and Return. 3rd: From 500th Column Famitsu Livestream. pic.twitter.com/1gDNCRCanW
I honestly only see Pokemon Trainer getting a color costume that references Ash in a new Smash game, not so much Ash himself getting in.
Where did I say Space Invaders wasn't important? All of my contention is to do with feasibility.
Still would be dumb. Unless it's Arnold Schwarzenegger's Last Action Hero ™
They make the port a smaller, lower-key, and less important release, the kind of thing that gets shoved into a "Partner Showcase" or a generic highlight reel within a general Direct. Much closer to par-for-the-course calendar filler than headline news. So these factors make the port itself less likely to significantly change a character's Smash chances. Having a port with worse graphics, coming out late, etc. doesn't worsen the popularity or the chances but I don't think it improves them as much as many people give it credit for. What I don't get is how a new port suddenly makes a character get seen as way more likely, which I think is a fallacy further emboldened by recency bias and hype culture.
Exactly, I'm glad you point that out. Doesn't mean that third parties are unlikely because of it, no, but I'm saying the ports don't help them all that much since even with the ports most of them aren't getting in due to Nintendo association, history, or importance anyway. If their likelihood is tied to their importance to general gaming and/or their popularity, then I don't see how a port would help all that much.
Yeah, IMO it would be silly to include or exclude Chief based on the existence or nonexistence of a simple skin cameo. My guess is that it doesn't make a difference to Nintendo but as you say that hasn't been explicitly confirmed either way.
Exactly, the ports themselves don't matter much either way to the devs or the fans. IF a character was previously considered ineligible, then I doubt that a port, even if technically making them eligible, would be the thing that gets the character chosen. They would need something else like popularity that could've existed before the port. I didn't say the port was going to factor into the Smash popularity to a significant degree; if anything, I downplayed the effect a port can and should have on Smash popularity, though I admitted it could help popularity to a certain extent, in part due to people believing and/or supporting the "must be on Nintendo" rule.
Yeah I think that's mostly fair to say. I guess I am very colored on the topic since a 3P character that wasn't previously on Nintendo getting a port isn't going to change my perception of their likelihood or make me want them to actually make it in.
Here's the thing. When it comes to making any appearance on a Nintendo system, you can't say it doesn't matter. We don't know. It might. We have to be content not having a definitive answer on that one. Just because there are blanks doesn't mean we have to fill them in. The upside is no Nintendo appearances applies to very few remaining plausible candidates.
I acknowledged that. My sense is that it doesn't but as I said I don't really care enough to argue strongly about that right now.
Sure, although with the floodgates more open now, it could become more of an issue if people start pushing for characters who are just important to gaming in general without regard to the Nintendo appearances.
Fair, although I just think you overstate how much the popularity is likely to increase. If the character wasn't already popular or important to gaming, then the port would hardly make them a popular candidate in most cases. I think you need existing popularity or perceived importance (or some other factors), which dampens the notion that the port is some kind of all-capable catalyst.
Which would support but not outright confirm that Nintendo doesn't care that much about having Nintendo-platform releases, at least recent ones.
No, the date doesn't matter in terms of just having some appearance but, in lowering the profile of the release, it might make the devs less liable to actually take note of or ultimately act on any increased popularity or "hype" for the character that was due to said port.
Sure, inarguably eligible going by the rules that most fans play by. But not necessarily at all likely. My point is that some people view the port as a sudden and dramatic changer of fortunes, but I don't think that's necessarily accurate since a newly eligible character, if that's what 2B is, could still remain highly unlikely. Whether or not her eligibility makes her now likely depends more meaningfully on other factors like, for example, how you think she measures up to other Square candidates and whether or not she will be at all relevant when the next Smash roster decisions come.
Just remember: female fanser-AHEM, I MEAN representation.
Having a Nintendo appearance is the equivalent to a starting gate during a horse race. Under the possibility that an appearance is necessary, the gate would be closed without one. With an appearance, the gate is open. But how well you do still comes down to the horse. All the presence does is let you participate in the race. You still need to be a strong contender to have a chance. In this case, 2B is a strong contender, now indisputably uninhibited by a gate.
to
or not to But if she wasn't a strong contender (and I'm not totally convinced that she is, but that's a matter of the particular example of 2B and not the subject of ports in general), then it wouldn't matter if the gate was open or closed, unless her horse got some other, later impulse to start running (and I don't think the port alone would be that impetus in most cases).
Well yeah, if you come up short then being eligible or not doesn't really matter because you're not plausible in the first place. But despite this label being incorrectly applied to some of the most popular choices, we don't actually spend much time talking about true "no-hopers".
The biggest problem with Ash Ketchum is that all of his most iconic Pokémon are already playable in Smash. Ash without Pikachu, Charizard, or Greninja seems kind of pointless in my opinion. That’s one reason I personally support Jessie, James, and Meowth as anime reps over Ash. They could potentially incorporate Arbok and Weezing into their moveset as well. I think it could be fun if they physically fought and used their Pokémon for their specials.
m.youtube.com
Scorpion totally deserves the next FGC slot unless it's Chun-Li. It's so freaking unfair the hurdle he faces with his game being heavily regulated or just flat out banned in Japan from what I understand because it goes even beyond just being a western 3rd party. Ideally it shouldn't affect his chances but if Japan is gonna unfairly stigmatize his series specifically then I doubt they'd give him an honest consideration based on his merits alone. He's iconic and he uses weapons which is something a FGC hasn't brought to the table yet in Smash. Legitimately blatant unfairness. The Mortal Kombat theme alone is iconic as well. Can you imagine that legally be played on FD/BF in tournaments? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE Nintendo. You can tone him down and if he's base game he doesn't even need the Sakurai presents history reel of his games showcased. C'mon!
ash is one of those characters who i feel if they could be smash they would have been by nowThe biggest problem with Ash Ketchum is that all of his most iconic Pokémon are already playable in Smash. Ash without Pikachu, Charizard, or Greninja seems kind of pointless in my opinion. That’s one reason I personally support Jessie, James, and Meowth as anime reps over Ash. They could potentially incorporate Arbok and Weezing into their moveset as well. I think it could be fun if they physically fought and used their Pokémon for their specials.
Before anyone says they would never let Jessie and James actually hit a Pokémon:
POKEMON JESSIE VS SEVIPER 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
THANKS FOR WATCHINGSubreddit = https://www.reddit.com/r/GreninjaTrainer/
youtu.be
I don’t mind trading Cloud and Sephiroth for Black Mage and Kefka and I don’t mind trading Snake for Bomberman and I don’t mind trading Joker for Jack Frost
