Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Geno Boost]

Well the thing that gives 2B an edge over Crono, Geno, and anyone from Taito is that she's a lot more generally popular than any of those characters are, and Nier is becoming a fairly successful franchise. She's beating them in the qualities that got the other SE characters included.

Not that she's the only imaginable option, but she does seem like a frontrunner from the company. Especially with Lara Croft gone.

Also the Seven Square leak was a compiled list of names that had been heard. As a whole, it holds no validity; it's an aggregate where a few claims may have been valid, but most weren't. Given the timing of that leak, any more than Hero being genuine insight and not just luck is very unlikely.

If you speak about sales and quantity regarding what square-enix owns then Space Invaders pretty much dominates them all and even way more recognizable and iconic than 2B https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-...op-50-highest-grossing-video-game-franchises/

 

[dream1ng]

If you speak about sales and quantity regarding what square-enix owns then Space Invaders pretty much dominates them all and even way more recognizable and iconic than 2B https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-...op-50-highest-grossing-video-game-franchises/

Well obviously, but the odds that Space Invaders isn't overlooked as an infeasible series seem remote.

If it had evolved into a more modern, well-known depiction like Pac-Man did, it would've been part of the conversation since third-parties became a thing. I know there's that furry looking guy, but I wouldn't even put that above Crono and Geno. If it gets in, it'd be quite a surprise.

 

[Geno Boost]

Well obviously, but the odds that Space Invaders isn't overlooked as an infeasible series seem remote.

If it had evolved into a more modern, well-known depiction like Pac-Man did, it would've been part of the conversation since third-parties became a thing. I know there's that furry looking guy, but I wouldn't even put that above Crono and Geno. If it gets in, it'd be quite a surprise.

If Space Invaders gets it would be like Terry not due to requests or demand but rather to represent a big piece of gaming history it’s basically the grandfather of videos games and Taito could pretty much be represented the same way as SNK being able to include so many different Taito contents.

 

[SPEN18]

And timeliness is a non-factor in the binary of having made an appearance on Nintendo or not.

Well, the delayed release aspect only makes it worse; my bewilderment applies to all third party ports, but especially those which have features/graphics toned down for the Nintendo release, only release on Nintendo after the release on other platforms, or otherwise gain more of their notoriety from their releases on other platforms.

If 2B eventually gets in, it'll be because she's a popular character from a successful game. All this does is remove what might have otherwise been an obstacle.

Yeah, I don't think that just appearing on a Nintendo platform is a requirement that Nintendo or Sakurai have placed on themselves, but I don't really want to argue much about that, in part because I personally advocate for even more stringent requirements on third parties. I get that it could raise the popularity or perceived likelihood a bit due to people believing in this rule, but even if it is a rule, then IMO more people should realize that going from "ineligible" to "barely eligible" isn't all that big a deal. I wasn't trying to say that it won't change some people's minds; I was more saying that I don't agree with those people's reasoning that being ported to Nintendo is a big deal for a third party character's Smash chances. It is natural for me to downplay the significance of ports, as I agree with you that if 2B gets in or Joker is retained, then it would be primarily because they're popular gaming characters in general; the ports would be a minor factor at best.

I think it's a combination of being into speculation with personal hype feelings for whatever character passing a barrier (not a Nintendo property or Nintendo adjacent) even if not everyone believe this barrier is even real, etc. Obscurity is in itself funny to muse over because there's some pretty wtf characters in smash so why not? kinda thing. This then leads to people saying things like so I guess such n such is coming to smash, but they mean it sarcastically. Those who don't mean it sarcastically are "marks" if you will. I am not ashamed to admit that if Rygar got ported to switch oh wait they did Rygar for smash please Nintendo!

Yeah the "personal hype" factor is definitely a driver. The announcement of a port puts the older game into people's minds again and it is an easy thing to latch onto or even use to increase exposure when trying to push for a specific character. I just think that, realistically, just being ported onto a Nintendo platform (especially so late in a game's lifecycle) isn't going to move the needle any further than it's already been moved in terms of Smash chances.

I guess it's because it's a common belief that a video game IP kinda needs to have at least one game released on a Nintendo platform in order to be considered "eligible".

Yeah, that's right, a lot of it is "common belief" in a pattern and/or rule which at least not everyone thinks is confirmed by Nintendo/Sakurai. Like "Assists disconfirm." As I sort of said above, I'm not denying that it has an impact on people's perception (and therefore also on popularity to a certain extent), but I don't agree with the line of thinking that leads people to make that change in perception, since I think that even if appearing on Nintendo is an eligibility requirement, then a port would only pass a character to the "barely on the radar" category.

If Nier was unlikely due to the "rule," then it's now barely cleared the bar for mere consideration, which hardly makes it likely; if there was no rule to begin with, then Nier would still be just about as likely now as it was before, in my assessment.

 

[chocolatejr9]

For anybody who supports Pokemon anime content in Smash, here's an unexpected surprise:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SPEN18]

For anybody who supports Pokemon anime content in Smash, here's an unexpected surprise:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I guess a similar sort of thing. Sure, Ash may be in a video game but that doesn't make him historically important to video games. So even for those who would say this makes him "eligible," eligibility does not make you a strong or even remotely realistic candidate.

 

[fogbadge]

I guess a similar sort of thing. Sure, Ash may be in a video game but that doesn't make him historically important to video games. So even for those who would say this makes him "eligible," eligibility does not make you a strong candidate.

he may not be important to gaming but he’s still an iconic character in one of of Nintendos biggest franchises. Regardless of eligibility

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah the "personal hype" factor is definitely a driver. The announcement of a port puts the older game into people's minds again and it is an easy thing to latch onto or even use to increase exposure when trying to push for a specific character. I just think that, realistically, just being ported onto a Nintendo platform (especially so late in a game's lifecycle) isn't going to move the needle any further than it's already been moved in terms of Smash chances.

I dunno. When the devs think up a roster
I honestly don't know what they think about. But whether or not the character's game is playable on the same system as the smash title, no I don't think that's particularly important or a deal breaker or whatever. Having never been playable on Nintendo well that's just a point to ignore unless you like soul crushing monotony

 

[dream1ng]

If Space Invaders gets it would be like Terry not due to requests or demand but rather to represent a big piece of gaming history it’s basically the grandfather of videos games and Taito could pretty much be represented the same way as SNK being able to include so many different Taito contents.

Honestly Fatal Fury and KoF isn't that big a piece of gaming history. It's not Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter (which we still don't have). I don't think that's why it got in. I think Sakurai liked it, it's popular enough in some places in the world, and it was cheap.

That's neither here nor there though. Space Invaders would indeed get included because it's Space Invaders, it's a seminal, very identifiable series... it's just that it probably won't get included fighter-wise, due to the nature of its representation. Sort of like Tetris. There are many SE characters I'd give the odds to.

Well, the delayed release aspect only makes it worse; my bewilderment applies to all third party ports, but especially those which have features/graphics toned down for the Nintendo release, only release on Nintendo after the release on other platforms, or otherwise gain more of their notoriety from their releases on other platforms.

Well none of those are factors in inclusion. Why would they be? If someone wants a character in Smash, either a fan or the people who actually make the decisions, why would showing up late or not for a long time (but still showing up), and looking worse than on a more powerful console (but still looking as good as any other character when actually in Smash) matter?

More over, it describes most third-party games. Doesn't mitigate popularity so long as the character shows up. Didn't stop Doom Slayer, didn't stop Crash, didn't stop Dante, won't stop 2B. Banjo and Richter hadn't shown up on a Nintendo system in over a decade when they were included. Cloud and Joker had only shown up in spin-offs. This stuff really doesn't matter.

Yeah, I don't think that just appearing on a Nintendo platform is a requirement that Nintendo or Sakurai have placed on themselves, but I don't really want to argue much about that, in part because I personally advocate for even more stringent requirements on third parties. I get that it could raise the popularity or perceived likelihood a bit due to people believing in this rule, but even if it is a rule, then IMO more people should realize that going from "ineligible" to "barely eligible" isn't all that big a deal. I wasn't trying to say that it won't change some people's minds; I was more saying that I don't agree with those people's reasoning that being ported to Nintendo is a big deal for a third party character's Smash chances. It is natural for me to downplay the significance of ports, as I agree with you that if 2B gets in or Joker is retained, then it would be primarily because they're popular gaming characters in general; the ports would be a minor factor at best.

There's no empirical evidence that it doesn't matter, but the evidence that it does isn't entirely definitive anyway, so we're going to stay at this impasse. Luckily, the question is now moot for 2B, and really only applies now to Chief, of the characters we actually bother discussing.

And even then that brings up the question as to whether skins count, which again, we don't have a definitive answer on.

But these characters aren't now "barely eligible". That's not how eligibility goes. Nier Automata has a port, doesn't matter if it's late. That's not going to be a factor in the popularity of the character, or how the devs are going to look at it. It took until, what? 2019 to get a DMC game on a Nintendo system, like three gens late, and Dante is now one of the most popular candidates.

 

[Geno Boost]

Honestly Fatal Fury and KoF isn't that big a piece of gaming history. It's not Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter (which we still don't have). I don't think that's why it got in. I think Sakurai liked it, it's popular enough in some places in the world, and it was cheap.

That's neither here nor there though. Space Invaders would indeed get included because it's Space Invaders, it's a seminal, very identifiable series... it's just that it probably won't get included fighter-wise, due to the nature of its representation. Sort of like Tetris. There are many SE characters I'd give the odds to.


Well none of those are factors in inclusion. Why would they be? If someone wants a character in Smash, either a fan or the people who actually make the decisions, why would showing up late or not for a long time (but still showing up), and looking worse than on a more powerful console (but still looking as good as any other character when actually in Smash) matter?

More over, it describes most third-party games. Doesn't mitigate popularity so long as the character shows up. Didn't stop Doom Slayer, didn't stop Crash, didn't stop Dante, won't stop 2B. Banjo and Richter hadn't shown up on a Nintendo system in over a decade when they were included. Cloud and Joker had only shown up in spin-offs. This stuff really doesn't matter.


There's no empirical evidence that it doesn't matter, but the evidence that it does isn't entirely definitive anyway, so we're going to stay at this impasse. Luckily, the question is now moot for 2B, and really only applies now to Chief, of the characters we actually bother discussing.

And even then that brings up the question as to whether skins count, which again, we don't have a definitive answer on.

But these characters aren't now "barely eligible". That's not how eligibility goes. Nier Automata has a port, doesn't matter if it's late. That's not going to be a factor in the popularity of the character, or how the devs are going to look at it. It took until, what? 2019 to get a DMC game on a Nintendo system, like three gens late, and Dante is now one of the most popular candidates.

I would say Space Invaders as a fighter is closer to Pikmin and Olimar as you would be controlling the UFO that spawns the space Invaders that would fight with you the series has enough resources to make a whole moveset even more so than Duck Hunt which required other zapper games

 

[dream1ng]

I would say Space Invaders as a fighter is closer to Pikmin and Olimar as you would be controlling the UFO that spawns the Space Invaders that would fight with you the series has enough resources to make a whole moveset even more so than Duck Hunt which requires other zapper games

I'm not saying it's unworkable, I just don't think it will happen. Remember, Sakurai thought Pac-Man was infeasible when he was only considering old waka waka pizza slice man and forgot the series didn't actually end in 1980. It, apparently, ended after Pac-Land.

And given it's a third-party, I don't think Sakurai is going to try to wrap his head around it as much to get it working as he would were it first-party. And given it's the 2020s and it's Space Invaders and not, y'know, Minecraft, I don't think Executive With Glasses™ is going to come to "ask" Sakurai to reconsider.

So I'm going to take Space Invaders off the table as a likely option, relegate it to a very long shot. To that end, I think 2B has among, if not the the best shot from Square. But she's not in some uncontested space or anything. Square's stable is one of the better ones, even without Eidos.

 

[Geno Boost]

I'm not saying it's unworkable, I just don't think it will happen. Remember, Sakurai thought Pac-Man was infeasible when he was only considering old waka waka pizza slice man and forgot the series didn't actually end in 1980. It, apparently, ended after Pac-Land.

And given it's a third-party, I don't think Sakurai is going to try to wrap his head around it as much to get it working as he would were it first-party. And given it's the 2020s and it's Space Invaders and not, y'know, Minecraft, I don't think Executive With Glasses™ is going to come to "ask" Sakurai to reconsider.

So I'm going to take Space Invaders off the table as a likely option, relegate it to a very long shot. To that end, I think 2B has among, if not the the best shot from Square. But she's not in some uncontested space or anything. Square's stable is one of the better ones, even without Eidos.

well i am pretty sure Sakurai does indeed acknowledge the importance of Space Invaders it doesnt have to be Minecraft of the year 2020s in order for inclusion if he can make Steve work and put much effort into it so could Space Invaders

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Ivander]

For anybody who supports Pokemon anime content in Smash, here's an unexpected surprise:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I honestly only see Pokemon Trainer getting a color costume that references Ash in a new Smash game, not so much Ash himself getting in.

 

[dream1ng]

well i am pretty sure Sakurai does indeed acknowledge the importance of Space Invaders it doesnt have to be Minecraft of the year 2020s in order for inclusion if he can make Steve work and put much effort into it so could Space Invaders

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Where did I say Space Invaders wasn't important? All of my contention is to do with feasibility.

The point about the 2020s was a comparison to Minecraft, which may also have not been seen initially as feasible by Sakurai, but because, unlike Space Invaders, it's still huge, the executives would be impelled to persuade Sakurai to try again, which, if you string together the anecdotes, may have been what happened. Who knows how different the path would've been there had the series dried up some 40 years ago.

But I'm gonna be real - you go around expecting a Space Invader to be anything more than the darkest of horses, chances seem pretty good you'll end up disappointed. It's not a series that intuitively lends itself to a fighter, which means the prospect of it getting overlooked is very real. It has been so far.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think the assist trophy is involvement enough in his eyes though since I'm not a mind reader that's pure conjecture albeit a safe one.

 

[HyperSomari64]

What if Smash Bros. 7 finally added non-video game characters, but in the form of Assist Trophies?

 

[Sucumbio]

What if Smash Bros. 7 finally added non-video game characters, but in the form of Assist Trophies?

Still would be dumb. Unless it's Arnold Schwarzenegger's Last Action Hero ™

 

[SPEN18]

Well none of those are factors in inclusion. Why would they be? If someone wants a character in Smash, either a fan or the people who actually make the decisions, why would showing up late or not for a long time (but still showing up), and looking worse than on a more powerful console (but still looking as good as any other character when actually in Smash) matter?

They make the port a smaller, lower-key, and less important release, the kind of thing that gets shoved into a "Partner Showcase" or a generic highlight reel within a general Direct. Much closer to par-for-the-course calendar filler than headline news. So these factors make the port itself less likely to significantly change a character's Smash chances. Having a port with worse graphics, coming out late, etc. doesn't worsen the popularity or the chances but I don't think it improves them as much as many people give it credit for. What I don't get is how a new port suddenly makes a character get seen as way more likely, which I think is a fallacy further emboldened by recency bias and hype culture.

More over, it describes most third-party games.

Exactly, I'm glad you point that out. Doesn't mean that third parties are unlikely because of it, no, but I'm saying the ports don't help them all that much since even with the ports most of them aren't getting in due to Nintendo association, history, or importance anyway. If their likelihood is tied to their importance to general gaming and/or their popularity, then I don't see how a port would help all that much.

As a separate matter this is part of why I'd like to see the 3P reps scaled back. Because most third party games on Nintendo platforms aren't all that important in the big picture.

And even then that brings up the question as to whether skins count, which again, we don't have a definitive answer on.

Yeah, IMO it would be silly to include or exclude Chief based on the existence or nonexistence of a simple skin cameo. My guess is that it doesn't make a difference to Nintendo but as you say that hasn't been explicitly confirmed either way.

But these characters aren't now "barely eligible". That's not how eligibility goes. Nier Automata has a port, doesn't matter if it's late. That's not going to be a factor in the popularity of the character, or how the devs are going to look at it. It took until, what? 2019 to get a DMC game on a Nintendo system, like three gens late, and Dante is now one of the most popular candidates.

Exactly, the ports themselves don't matter much either way to the devs or the fans. IF a character was previously considered ineligible, then I doubt that a port, even if technically making them eligible, would be the thing that gets the character chosen. They would need something else like popularity that could've existed before the port. I didn't say the port was going to factor into the Smash popularity to a significant degree; if anything, I downplayed the effect a port can and should have on Smash popularity, though I admitted it could help popularity to a certain extent, in part due to people believing and/or supporting the "must be on Nintendo" rule.

I understand that eligibility is a true/false proposition but I'm saying that even if having the port is really a factor in making the character literally eligible, then that raw eligibility is still not in itself any significant likelihood.

--

But anyway, I'm realizing that this argument is partially a product of and significantly colored by me thinking that Nintendo does not in fact take appearing on a Nintendo platform as a requirement. As I said, I personally think it should be a requirement and in fact I advocate for even stricter considerations than that; I admit that I am heavily biased since getting a new 3P port doesn't change my own mind on a character.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A lot of this comes down to people doing speculation being more comfortable with some guidelines and certain expectations than without them, and "appearance on a Nintendo Console" happens to both be a relatively straightforward one to understand, and has more or less been followed so far. In a sense, it's not that an impediment to 2B's chances is effectively gone, as much as the impediment to discussing her has been wiped away by Nier's inclusion on the Switch. There's always going to be those saying it wasn't that important in the grand scheme, but it will make speculating about her a bit more flexible than it has been up until this point.

 

[SPEN18]

A lot of this comes down to people doing speculation being more comfortable with some guidelines and certain expectations than without them, and "appearance on a Nintendo Console" happens to both be a relatively straightforward one to understand, and has more or less been followed so far. In a sense, it's not that an impediment to 2B's chances is effectively gone, as much as the impediment to discussing her has been wiped away by Nier's inclusion on the Switch. There's always going to be those saying it wasn't that important in the grand scheme, but it will make speculating about her a bit more flexible than it has been up until this point.

Yeah I think that's mostly fair to say. I guess I am very colored on the topic since a 3P character that wasn't previously on Nintendo getting a port isn't going to change my perception of their likelihood or make me want them to actually make it in.

 

[dream1ng]

They make the port a smaller, lower-key, and less important release, the kind of thing that gets shoved into a "Partner Showcase" or a generic highlight reel within a general Direct. Much closer to par-for-the-course calendar filler than headline news. So these factors make the port itself less likely to significantly change a character's Smash chances. Having a port with worse graphics, coming out late, etc. doesn't worsen the popularity or the chances but I don't think it improves them as much as many people give it credit for. What I don't get is how a new port suddenly makes a character get seen as way more likely, which I think is a fallacy further emboldened by recency bias and hype culture.



Exactly, I'm glad you point that out. Doesn't mean that third parties are unlikely because of it, no, but I'm saying the ports don't help them all that much since even with the ports most of them aren't getting in due to Nintendo association, history, or importance anyway. If their likelihood is tied to their importance to general gaming and/or their popularity, then I don't see how a port would help all that much.

As a separate matter this is part of why I'd like to see the 3P reps scaled back. Because most third party games on Nintendo platforms aren't all that important in the big picture.



Yeah, IMO it would be silly to include or exclude Chief based on the existence or nonexistence of a simple skin cameo. My guess is that it doesn't make a difference to Nintendo but as you say that hasn't been explicitly confirmed either way.



Exactly, the ports themselves don't matter much either way to the devs or the fans. IF a character was previously considered ineligible, then I doubt that a port, even if technically making them eligible, would be the thing that gets the character chosen. I didn't say the port was going to factor into the Smash popularity to a significant degree; if anything, I downplayed the effect a port can and should have on Smash popularity, though I admitted it could help popularity to a certain extent, in part due to people believing and/or supporting the "must be on Nintendo" rule.

I understand that eligibility is a true/false proposition but I'm saying that even if having the port is really a factor in making the character literally eligible, then that raw eligibility is still not in itself any significant likelihood.

--

But anyway, I'm realizing that this argument is partially a product of and significantly colored by me thinking that Nintendo does not in fact take appearing on a Nintendo platform as a requirement. As I said, I personally think it should be a requirement and in fact I advocate for even stricter considerations than that; I admit that I am heavily biased since getting a new 3P port doesn't change my own mind on a character.

Here's the thing. When it comes to making any appearance on a Nintendo system, you can't say it doesn't matter. We don't know. It might. We have to be content not having a definitive answer on that one. Just because there are blanks doesn't mean we have to fill them in. The upside is no Nintendo appearances applies to very few remaining plausible candidates.

When it comes to the fans, the perception among many is that having an appearance on a Nintendo system is important. So when a character gets that, they will be seen as a more valid option, and their popularity will increase. And no, a new release of a series not new to Nintendo really doesn't matter. Very few of the third-parties had some accompanying game released on the Switch in their proximity. But the fanbase is obsessed with trying to find connections and clues, and that nonetheless raises the popularity of a character if a title comes to Switch. Some popularity then fades back down, some sticks around. That's the fanbase being irrationally presumptive, but the effect is still there.

So from the developer side, just having some appearance might matter, it's ambiguous. The date of such appearance is irrelevant either way. From the fan side, many fans believe, true or not, that it is a necessity, which will then inform popularity on either side. Likewise, just getting a release of an existing series also helps popularity, even if not actually directly helping the chances. It's mostly perception based, but popularity is nevertheless popularity.

So what does this mean for 2B? If an appearance on a Nintendo platform is indeed necessary, 2B now has that. And regardless of whether that barrier was real or not, it no longer being considered a factor will in turn help her popularity going forward. She's now inarguably eligible.

 

[Sucumbio]

Is 2B cool? 2 B or not 2 B.

 

[SPEN18]

When it comes to making any appearance on a Nintendo system, you can't say it doesn't matter. We don't know. It might. We have to be content not having a definitive answer on that one.

I acknowledged that. My sense is that it doesn't but as I said I don't really care enough to argue strongly about that right now.

The upside is no Nintendo appearances applies to very few remaining plausible candidates.

Sure, although with the floodgates more open now, it could become more of an issue if people start pushing for characters who are just important to gaming in general without regard to the Nintendo appearances.

When it comes to the fans, the perception among many is that having an appearance on a Nintendo system is important. So when a character gets that, they will be seen as a more valid option, and their popularity will increase. And no, a new release of a series not new to Nintendo really doesn't matter.

Fair, although I just think you overstate how much the popularity is likely to increase. If the character wasn't already popular or important to gaming, then the port would hardly make them a popular candidate in most cases. I think you need existing popularity or perceived importance (or some other factors), which dampens the notion that the port is some kind of all-capable catalyst.

Very few of the third-parties had some accompanying game released on the Switch in their proximity.

Which would support but not outright confirm that Nintendo doesn't care that much about having Nintendo-platform releases, at least recent ones.
As for your actual point there, no, I don't think most of the fanbase actively cares about the timing of the port relative to the original release. But the timing well after the original release does lower the profile of the port, which could indirectly dampen its effect on the fanbase and/or the devs.

The date of such appearance is irrelevant either way.

No, the date doesn't matter in terms of just having some appearance but, in lowering the profile of the release, it might make the devs less liable to actually take note of or ultimately act on any increased popularity or "hype" for the character that was due to said port.

If an appearance on a Nintendo platform is indeed necessary, 2B now has that. And regardless of whether that barrier was real or not, it no longer being considered a factor will in turn help her popularity going forward. She's now inarguably eligible.

Sure, inarguably eligible going by the rules that most fans play by. But not necessarily at all likely. My point is that some people view the port as a sudden and dramatic changer of fortunes, but I don't think that's necessarily accurate since a newly eligible character, if that's what 2B is, could still remain highly unlikely. Whether or not her eligibility makes her now likely depends more meaningfully on other factors like, for example, how you think she measures up to other Square candidates and whether or not she will be at all relevant when the next Smash roster decisions come.

 

[Sucumbio]

Y'all making it hard for me to hype on Too Bee.

Toobie! Tuby? TaOoobub eeeee

 

[chocolatejr9]

Y'all making it hard for me to hype on Too Bee.

Toobie! Tuby? TaOoobub eeeee

Just remember: female fanser-AHEM, I MEAN representation.

Yeah. Representation. That's why she's popular. Nothing else.

(This is meant to be a joke, BTW. I feel I should specify that).

 

[dream1ng]

I acknowledged that. My sense is that it doesn't but as I said I don't really care enough to argue strongly about that right now.



Sure, although with the floodgates more open now, it could become more of an issue if people start pushing for characters who are just important to gaming in general without regard to the Nintendo appearances.



Fair, although I just think you overstate how much the popularity is likely to increase. If the character wasn't already popular or important to gaming, then the port would hardly make them a popular candidate in most cases. I think you need existing popularity or perceived importance (or some other factors), which dampens the notion that the port is some kind of all-capable catalyst.



Which would support but not outright confirm that Nintendo doesn't care that much about having Nintendo-platform releases, at least recent ones.
As for your actual point there, no, I don't think most of the fanbase actively cares about the timing of the port relative to the original release. But the timing well after the original release does lower the profile of the port, which could indirectly dampen its effect on the fanbase and/or the devs.



No, the date doesn't matter in terms of just having some appearance but, in lowering the profile of the release, it might make the devs less liable to actually take note of or ultimately act on any increased popularity or "hype" for the character that was due to said port.



Sure, inarguably eligible going by the rules that most fans play by. But not necessarily at all likely. My point is that some people view the port as a sudden and dramatic changer of fortunes, but I don't think that's necessarily accurate since a newly eligible character, if that's what 2B is, could still remain highly unlikely. Whether or not her eligibility makes her now likely depends more meaningfully on other factors like, for example, how you think she measures up to other Square candidates and whether or not she will be at all relevant when the next Smash roster decisions come.

Having a Nintendo appearance is the equivalent to a starting gate during a horse race. Under the possibility that an appearance is necessary, the gate would be closed without one. With an appearance, the gate is open. But how well you do still comes down to the horse. All the presence does is let you participate in the race. You still need to be a strong contender to have a chance. In this case, 2B is a strong contender, now indisputably uninhibited by a gate.

That's different than just getting a release on Switch. That traction hinges on the character and the current timing of the Smash cycle.

Is 2B cool? 2 B or not 2 B.

to or not to

depends on the character

 

[SPEN18]

In this case, 2B is a strong contender, now indisputably uninhibited by a gate.

But if she wasn't a strong contender (and I'm not totally convinced that she is, but that's a matter of the particular example of 2B and not the subject of ports in general), then it wouldn't matter if the gate was open or closed, unless her horse got some other, later impulse to start running (and I don't think the port alone would be that impetus in most cases).

 

[Sucumbio]

After research 2B isn't really my cuppa though this anime stuff makes me now wanna deep dive into the Fates series and have an Archer vs Gilgamesh fan battle.

 

[dream1ng]

But if she wasn't a strong contender (and I'm not totally convinced that she is, but that's a matter of the particular example of 2B and not the subject of ports in general), then it wouldn't matter if the gate was open or closed, unless her horse got some other, later impulse to start running (and I don't think the port alone would be that impetus in most cases).

Well yeah, if you come up short then being eligible or not doesn't really matter because you're not plausible in the first place. But despite this label being incorrectly applied to some of the most popular choices, we don't actually spend much time talking about true "no-hopers".

Even most of the characters we talk about when it comes to the port bump aren't no-hopers. Their odds may be exaggerated, but most are still possible enough that musing over them isn't crazy. It's just people thinking that any given Switch support is meaningful which is off-base.

 

[Sucumbio]

Too bad Chobits didn't start out as a VGC. Time for Wakey wakey exercises!

 

[Gengar84]

he may not be important to gaming but he’s still an iconic character in one of of Nintendos biggest franchises. Regardless of eligibility

The biggest problem with Ash Ketchum is that all of his most iconic Pokémon are already playable in Smash. Ash without Pikachu, Charizard, or Greninja seems kind of pointless in my opinion. That’s one reason I personally support Jessie, James, and Meowth as anime reps over Ash. They could potentially incorporate Arbok and Weezing into their moveset as well. I think it could be fun if they physically fought and used their Pokémon for their specials.

Before anyone says they would never let Jessie and James actually hit a Pokémon:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[Wonder Smash]

Since I've always wanted a Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat game for so long, it's really starting to dawn on me how much Smash could have been a good opportunity for that crossover to finally happen after all these years. The idea was mentioned before but fighting game characters for Smash was never really something I was interested in because you pretty much already have an idea of how they'll play since they already have a moveset.

But while I can picture the violence being some sort of concern with a straight up Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat game (it wouldn't matter either way to me), I'm certain Scorpion or whatever MK character in Smash could make it without the violence at all and it wouldn't be a problem. So it's a shame that it didn't even happen through another game like that.

At this point, with Scorpion and Sub-Zero apparently leaked through the datamines of MultiVersus, I'm almost hoping Ryu would appear as a guest character in that game since Street Fighter characters have been making so many crossover appearances in other games lately.

 

[Chuderz]

With regards to 2B I really don't think a new game is enough to stop her at this point. I personally see her as approaching the realm of iconic video game characters if not there already and definitely see her in that way as far as female video game characters go. It's like Cloud. By the time he got into Smash there'd already been numerous sequels after his entry in the series before even counting all the previous Nintendo-era entries but he still got to represent the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole. I think of 2B in a similar way. I'd love to see her in the game and I think she deserves it. After Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Terra and Celes I'd say she's my most wanted female rep. I know the list is pretty long before her but at least it's all Square!

Ash I just don't see the point in including. I'm not coming from a place of rejection of 4th party characters but rather it's that his most important Pokemon, Pikachu, wouldn't be able to be part of his team or worse Pikachu would have to be taken from their status as a single character and forced into Ash's squad and that'd suck. I don't see how Red doesn't do everything Ash does already and does it better at that while also being important to the video games.

So yeah the direct was pretty meh but I barely categorize it as a direct so whatever.

The Smash ideas I pulled from it were ones based on pure moveset potential only. I'll link everything I'm mentioning.

That Mario + Rabids blaster thing Mario did where the announcer went "Pew Pew" as he shot both sides could be a perfect new Down-Smash for him. https://youtu.be/dKB3WXRWTCM?t=756

Whatever you think of Sonic Frontiers there seems to be a healthy amount of moveset potential coming out of it like that blaster kick thing he was doing was really cool. Unless that's something he's already done? I've played a lot of Sonic games and I've never seen it. If universal Back-Specials were a thing that'd be a good fit I think. https://youtu.be/dKB3WXRWTCM?t=1011

Speaking of which Revroll would be a perfect Back-Special for Pacman and Pacslam for a Shield-Special or if it'd be more streamlined maybe his current Neutral-Special could be relocated to a Shield-Special and Pacslam could be the new Neutral-Special. https://youtu.be/dKB3WXRWTCM?t=476

Since I've always wanted a Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat game for so long, it's really starting to dawn on me how much Smash could have been a good opportunity for that crossover to finally happen after all these years. The idea was mentioned before but fighting game characters for Smash was never really something I was interested in because you pretty much already have an idea of how they'll play since they already have a moveset.

But while I can picture the violence being some sort of concern with a straight up Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat game (it wouldn't matter either way to me), I'm certain Scorpion or whatever MK character in Smash could make it without the violence at all and it wouldn't be a problem. So it's a shame that it didn't even happen through another game like that.

At this point, with Scorpion and Sub-Zero apparently leaked through the datamines of MultiVersus, I'm almost hoping Ryu would appear as a guest character in that game since Street Fighter characters have been making so many crossover appearances in other games lately.

Scorpion totally deserves the next FGC slot unless it's Chun-Li. It's so freaking unfair the hurdle he faces with his game being heavily regulated or just flat out banned in Japan from what I understand because it goes even beyond just being a western 3rd party. Ideally it shouldn't affect his chances but if Japan is gonna unfairly stigmatize his series specifically then I doubt they'd give him an honest consideration based on his merits alone. He's iconic and he uses weapons which is something a FGC hasn't brought to the table yet in Smash. Legitimately blatant unfairness. The Mortal Kombat theme alone is iconic as well. Can you imagine that legally be played on FD/BF in tournaments? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE Nintendo. You can tone him down and if he's base game he doesn't even need the Sakurai presents history reel of his games showcased. C'mon!

 

[fogbadge]

The biggest problem with Ash Ketchum is that all of his most iconic Pokémon are already playable in Smash. Ash without Pikachu, Charizard, or Greninja seems kind of pointless in my opinion. That’s one reason I personally support Jessie, James, and Meowth as anime reps over Ash. They could potentially incorporate Arbok and Weezing into their moveset as well. I think it could be fun if they physically fought and used their Pokémon for their specials.

Before anyone says they would never let Jessie and James actually hit a Pokémon:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

ash is one of those characters who i feel if they could be smash they would have been by now

 

[Stratos]

If Dai, the protagonist of the anime and manga series Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai, appeared in the Super Smash Bros. series, he would probably appear as an assist trophy, but on the other hand, I may be wrong.

 

[fogbadge]

On the subject of anime and manga characters in smash, you should always ask yourself this: have the anime characters made by sakurai turned up?

 

[Chuderz]

Here's something I don't think has been talked about once in this thread.

Sephiroth's one bad and lazy victory screen. It's the one that is just a simple and boring close-up on his face. I'll timestamp it in the video link below.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

What really irks me about it too is that he actually has a victory pose routine he does in the original FFVll game like all playable characters! Without giving too much away you actually have Sephiroth in your party for a very tiny portion of the game in a flashback.

I'll also timestamp it so that you can check it out here:

I'd say it'd be a great mod but it's really such a glaring oversight and/or miss by Sakurai and team that I truly wonder why it wasn't implemented officially in the first place because it'd have been such a stellar callback to the original game. Of course it goes without saying that his other two victory screens in Smash are perfect.

Also as a little aside I think one of his taunts should have been his using materia pose. If you want to see it you can watch him do it in the video I linked of him fighting the dragon if you rewind it a little.

 

[Quillion]

Well, I was taking a little break from this site when the third-party direct aired, so I guess I can say I'm fairly impressed.

Also, the fact that Nier Automata is coming to Switch makes Squeenix's decision to keep the Kingdom Hearts collections on cloud even worse.

 

[ceterisparibus]

If your criteria for smash inclusion is as broad as exclusives on nintendo (bayonetta) to a couple of cute spinoff/sidegames (persona, tekken) to glorified cameos you didn't know until you actually played it (FF7), then maybe nintendo representation is so vague that it was never a decisive factor anyway (even the commonly brought up comment by sakurai stated it "as a courtesy").
Honestly smash would probably be duller if it adhered moreso towards heavily associated nintendo characters. Imagine trading cloud/snake/joker for the likes of black mage/shantae or even hayabusa.

 

[Geno Boost]

If your criteria for smash inclusion is as broad as exclusives on nintendo (bayonetta) to a couple of cute spinoff/sidegames (persona, tekken) to glorified cameos you didn't know until you actually played it (FF7), then maybe nintendo representation is so vague that it was never a decisive factor anyway (even the commonly brought up comment by sakurai stated it "as a courtesy").
Honestly smash would probably be duller if it adhered moreso towards heavily associated nintendo characters. Imagine trading cloud/snake/joker for the likes of black mage/shantae or even hayabusa.

I don’t mind trading Cloud and Sephiroth for Black Mage and Kefka and I don’t mind trading Snake for Bomberman and I don’t mind trading Joker for Jack Frost
We all have our own taste in video games
Like I seriously would be way more hyped for Club Penguin rep over Sora
So it’s not dull for me at all
These characters you mentioned did not hype me during their reveal including Bayonetta