Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Sucumbio]

Daisy needs it she's basically just another set of alt costumes and why when Wario had a million Alts in brawl it's not like they had a need to use another slot just for her skins meh.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Time for a new poll:



If you have to choose two, and only two, Echo Fighters to promote as unique (or at least semi-clone) characters, who would you pick?

Chrom and Dark Samus

 

[Laniv]

Time for a new poll:



If you have to choose two, and only two, Echo Fighters to promote as unique (or at least semi-clone) characters, who would you pick?

Daisy and Dark Samus. Both of them got done dirty.

Shout-out to Richter, who really should've had HYDRO STORM! as a Final Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Daisy and Dark Samus. Both of them got done dirty.

Shout-out to Richter, who really should've had HYDRO STORM! as a Final Smash.

How would you make Hydro Storm more “dynamic” for Smash tho?

 

[Yamat08]

Daisy and Dark Samus. Both of them got done dirty.

I mean, I don't like that she's a 1:1 clone, but it's not as if she hasn't been Peach's clone in several of the games she appears in. And I really don't get a lot of people suggesting that her moveset get completely reworked to include sports equipment. If you think about it, sports equipment could technically go with just about ANY Mario character, but they think it should get stuck onto Daisy because, to them, the sports spin-offs are apparently the only noteworthy appearances she's ever made.

I'll give you Dark Samus, though I hope the complainers realize that Dark Samus was either gonna get in as a copy/paste job or not at all.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Is there any reason people keep saying Richter specifically should have Hydro Storm as his Final Smash, or is it just that move being broken? Because it's as specific to him as all the other Item Crashes. And outside the context of the original games, it's probably kind of hard to communicate that it's holy water he's attacking with.

That and Grand Cross is what he uses in Rondo's opening cutscene.

 

[SharkLord]

Is there any reason people keep saying Richter specifically should have Hydro Storm as his Final Smash, or is it just that move being broken? Because it's as specific to him as all the other Item Crashes. And outside the context of the original games, it's probably kind of hard to communicate that it's holy water he's attacking with.

That and Grand Cross is what he uses in Rondo's opening cutscene.

Yeah, pretty much. The move nukes everything on the screen and annihilates bosses in seconds, and it just kinda stuck with the fans, even though Grand Cross is the "official" signature Item Crash. It might not be the main Item Crash according to the games, but it's the main Item Crash in our hearts.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is there any reason people keep saying Richter specifically should have Hydro Storm as his Final Smash, or is it just that move being broken? Because it's as specific to him as all the other Item Crashes.

I think it's because of the prologue to SotN.

 

[Chuderz]

I mean, I don't like that she's a 1:1 clone, but it's not as if she hasn't been Peach's clone in several of the games she appears in. And I really don't get a lot of people suggesting that her moveset get completely reworked to include sports equipment. If you think about it, sports equipment could technically go with just about ANY Mario character, but they think it should get stuck onto Daisy because, to them, the sports spin-offs are apparently the only noteworthy appearances she's ever made.

I'll give you Dark Samus, though I hope the complainers realize that Dark Samus was either gonna get in as a copy/paste job or not at all.

Personally I don't find Daisy compelling enough to warrant anything outside of her Echo status either. Everything you could do with her would be effort better spent on Waluigi.

Dark Samus could get her original moves from her time as an AT. I see a Side-Special, Down-Smash and maybe a Down-Special to get everything we could out of it.

Dark Samus AT moves: https://youtu.be/3hzZHg-eRJA?t=359

 

[Mamboo07]

Or how about this.
What if Andross will become Playable if you defeat Andross in Boss Form like if you kill Giga Bowser to get Bowser?

Andross as a fighter would be this design:

I picture him his moveset being inspired by his boss fights as well Final Smash being the giant brain form.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a random thought I had:

How would you feel if , and get new moves based on the weapon types they can use in their advanced class by reusing 's moves corresponding to said weapon types?

Namely:

• having 's down smash, down aerial and down special, with Urvan instead of Aymr.
• having 's forward smash, forward aerial, back aerial and side special, with Geirskögul instead of Areadbhar (and whatever lance could get if he ever wins one of the next Choose Your Legends editions).

 

[Jondolio]

Here's a random though I had:

How would you feel if , and get new moves based on the weapon types they can use in their advanced class by reusing 's moves corresponding to said weapon types?

Namely:

• having 's down smash, down aerial and down special, with Urvan instead of Aymr.
• having 's forward smash, forward aerial, back aerial and side special, with Geirskögul instead of Areadbhar (and whatever lance could get if he ever wins one of the next Choose Your Legends editions).

I don't see the point of giving Ike a new moveset considering his moveset is already completely unique

Also Lucina and Chrom wielding anything other than Falchion as their main weapon would feel wrong imo

 

[Idon]

Here's a random though I had:

How would you feel if , and get new moves based on the weapon types they can use in their advanced class by reusing 's moves corresponding to said weapon types?

Namely:

• having 's down smash, down aerial and down special, with Urvan instead of Aymr.
• having 's forward smash, forward aerial, back aerial and side special, with Geirskögul instead of Areadbhar (and whatever lance could get if he ever wins one of the next Choose Your Legends editions).

Ike doesn't need it.
He's a master swordsman at heart and mixing in Urvan randomly makes his already airtight moveset more disconnected for zero reason.

Same goes for Lucina and Chrom honestly, though obviously they could stand to get more unique moves of any kind.

Honestly I don't like Byleth's moveset comprising of various clumsy attacks taken from other weapons to begin with.

 

[Shroob]

Didn't Lucina have an unused Bow file in either this or 4's code? Meaning that at one point in development they had considered giving her a bow? Said file doesn't actually have anything in it iirc, but it does seem like they had considered giving her a bow.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Didn't Lucina have an unused Bow file in either this or 4's code? Meaning that at one point in development they had considered giving her a bow? Said file doesn't actually have anything in it iirc, but it does seem like they had considered giving her a bow.

Bow file deez n-

I mean, I don't like that she's a 1:1 clone, but it's not as if she hasn't been Peach's clone in several of the games she appears in. And I really don't get a lot of people suggesting that her moveset get completely reworked to include sports equipment. If you think about it, sports equipment could technically go with just about ANY Mario character, but they think it should get stuck onto Daisy because, to them, the sports spin-offs are apparently the only noteworthy appearances she's ever made.

I'll give you Dark Samus, though I hope the complainers realize that Dark Samus was either gonna get in as a copy/paste job or not at all.

Okay but that’s only if you think that Daisy‘s new moveset’s core philosophy should be “Sports equipment” which is not really a way to make a moveset and doesn’t take into account the elements Daisy herself brings to the table.

 

[Idon]

Didn't Lucina have an unused Bow file in either this or 4's code? Meaning that at one point in development they had considered giving her a bow? Said file doesn't actually have anything in it iirc, but it does seem like they had considered giving her a bow.

Perhaps. It's quite a popular thing to give Chrom and Lucina in spinoff material due to their reclass options being an archer and a cavalier.

 

[Dinoman96]

So part of Sakurai's last Famitsu column leaked.

スマブラ・桜井政博さん「（続編は）ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 | ゲームよりどりサブカルみどりパーク

ファミ通最新号より Q次回作を作ることは可能ですか？ 「ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 「続編は考えていない。毎度考えていない。しかしこれでスマブラは最後ですとは言い切れない」 「ユーザーをがっかりさせる行為をしてまでスマブラを出すべきなのかは考える必要がある」 「スマブラを私抜きで制作するのはいまのところ道筋が見えない」 「正直人に任せたいとおもっていて実際試したこともあるがうまくいっていない」 「シリーズを継続するのなら私と任天堂でやり取りを行いそうすれば成功するのか議論しなければ、真剣に考えるべき議題」 ファミ通コラム、スマブラSP制作おつかれさまでした！...

ryokutya2089.com

He says he's currently not thinking about the next game, but he does say that "I can't say this is the last Smash Bros." Goes on to add "I don't see how Smash Bros. can be produced without me at the moment. To be honest, I'd rather leave it to someone else, and I've tried, but it hasn't worked out. If we're going to continue with the series, we need to have a dialogue between me and Nintendo and discuss how we can make it work, so it's an issue we need to think about seriously."

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I can see Sakurai being a producer overseen various projects than a director with full dedication to Smash Bros.

 

[Garteam]

So part of Sakurai's last Famitsu column leaked.

スマブラ・桜井政博さん「（続編は）ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 | ゲームよりどりサブカルみどりパーク

ファミ通最新号より Q次回作を作ることは可能ですか？ 「ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 「続編は考えていない。毎度考えていない。しかしこれでスマブラは最後ですとは言い切れない」 「ユーザーをがっかりさせる行為をしてまでスマブラを出すべきなのかは考える必要がある」 「スマブラを私抜きで制作するのはいまのところ道筋が見えない」 「正直人に任せたいとおもっていて実際試したこともあるがうまくいっていない」 「シリーズを継続するのなら私と任天堂でやり取りを行いそうすれば成功するのか議論しなければ、真剣に考えるべき議題」 ファミ通コラム、スマブラSP制作おつかれさまでした！...

ryokutya2089.com

He says he's currently not thinking about the next game, but he does say that "I can't say this is the last Smash Bros." Goes on to add "I don't see how Smash Bros. can be produced without me at the moment. To be honest, I'd rather leave it to someone else, and I've tried, but it hasn't worked out. If we're going to continue with the series, we need to have a dialogue between me and Nintendo and discuss how we can make it work, so it's an issue we need to think about seriously."

Perhaps Sakurai could take the approach Yabuki did when concurrently handling ARMS and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe? There, he handed directorial duties for Kart over to Yusuke Shiraiwa while stepping down to a producer for that project and became the director of ARMS.

 

[Opossum]

So part of Sakurai's last Famitsu column leaked.

スマブラ・桜井政博さん「（続編は）ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 | ゲームよりどりサブカルみどりパーク

ファミ通最新号より Q次回作を作ることは可能ですか？ 「ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 「続編は考えていない。毎度考えていない。しかしこれでスマブラは最後ですとは言い切れない」 「ユーザーをがっかりさせる行為をしてまでスマブラを出すべきなのかは考える必要がある」 「スマブラを私抜きで制作するのはいまのところ道筋が見えない」 「正直人に任せたいとおもっていて実際試したこともあるがうまくいっていない」 「シリーズを継続するのなら私と任天堂でやり取りを行いそうすれば成功するのか議論しなければ、真剣に考えるべき議題」 ファミ通コラム、スマブラSP制作おつかれさまでした！...

ryokutya2089.com

He says he's currently not thinking about the next game, but he does say that "I can't say this is the last Smash Bros." Goes on to add "I don't see how Smash Bros. can be produced without me at the moment. To be honest, I'd rather leave it to someone else, and I've tried, but it hasn't worked out. If we're going to continue with the series, we need to have a dialogue between me and Nintendo and discuss how we can make it work, so it's an issue we need to think about seriously."

The most interesting part of this to me is that he has tried, and seemingly failed, to find a successor. That's definitely something to think about.

 

[osby]

The most interesting part of this to me is that he has tried, and seemingly failed, to find a successor. That's definitely something to think about.

I can think up two reasons why from the top of my head:

Either it's Sakurai's usual ambitiousness and he couldn't come up with a name who has enough drive for the project to make it big/different enough. After all, he made a point of not being a fan of sequels that play things too safe.

Or no suitable developer had the name power to deal with all the different IPs' rightsholders necessary for a game like Smash. Sakurai gathered a lot of respect in the industry over the years and I can think of some characters who may not have got in Smash if it wasn't for him, Nintendo's unlimited budget works or not.

This is mostly baseless speculation, of course, unless he elaborates on this subject.

 

[Laniv]

How would you make Hydro Storm more “dynamic” for Smash tho?

I imagine it would be like Kracko's rainstorm attack in modern Kirby games. Upon execution, Richter would summon a stage-wide rainstorm that heavily damages foes and pulls them towards himself before a massive cross or lightning bolt strikes around him to launch everyone.

mean, I don't like that she's a 1:1 clone, but it's not as if she hasn't been Peach's clone in several of the games she appears in. And I really don't get a lot of people suggesting that her moveset get completely reworked to include sports equipment. If you think about it, sports equipment could technically go with just about ANY Mario character, but they think it should get stuck onto Daisy because, to them, the sports spin-offs are apparently the only noteworthy appearances she's ever made.

Bare minimum, Daisy could just pick up Peach's customs from Smash 4. Because this:

feels much too obvious to not use for her.

 

[PeridotGX]

The most interesting part of this to me is that he has tried, and seemingly failed, to find a successor. That's definitely something to think about.

I will do it. I will make the Smash Brother 6.

 

[PeridotGX]

The most interesting part of this to me is that he has tried, and seemingly failed, to find a successor. That's definitely something to think about.

I will do it. I will make the Smash Brother 6.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The most interesting part of this to me is that he has tried, and seemingly failed, to find a successor. That's definitely something to think about.

I'm curious when this attempt was made.

It couldn't have been between Smash 4 and Ultimate. That was one continuous development cycle.

I highly doubt it was between 64 and Melee.

So that leaves Melee to Brawl, and Brawl to Smash 4.

Nintendo was going to go and just release Melee with wifi if Sakurai wasn't available to make Brawl. Could that have been the time? Maybe Sakurai hated the idea of just an updated release at that time.

 

[Dan Quixote]

I'm curious when this attempt was made.

It couldn't have been between Smash 4 and Ultimate. That was one continuous development cycle.

I highly doubt it was between 64 and Melee.

So that leaves Melee to Brawl, and Brawl to Smash 4.

Nintendo was going to go and just release Melee with wifi if Sakurai wasn't available to make Brawl. Could that have been the time? Maybe Sakurai hated the idea of just an updated release at that time.

Maybe it wasn't between Sm4sh and Ultimate but rather during that whole cycle. He might have been trying to scout out any talent within Nintendo who could take up duties but came up short?

 

[osby]

I'm curious when this attempt was made.

It couldn't have been between Smash 4 and Ultimate. That was one continuous development cycle.

I highly doubt it was between 64 and Melee.

So that leaves Melee to Brawl, and Brawl to Smash 4.

Nintendo was going to go and just release Melee with wifi if Sakurai wasn't available to make Brawl. Could that have been the time? Maybe Sakurai hated the idea of just an updated release at that time.

Sakurai's words about Brawl's development cycle made it sound like Iwata went straight to him, iirc.

So it may more likely be Smash 4? Especially if Sakurai tried finding someone himself.

 

[Speed Weed]

I could do the next Smash

I'll cut the entire roster and replace it with a bunch of random niche SEGA characters and also George Constanza from Seinfeld

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'll add eight Golden Sun characters and nobody can stop me

 

[osby]

Next Smash should add 8 Shin Megami Tensei characters so we can have another SMT X Fire Emblem game.

 

[toonito]

I will add Dante, Zero, and Akuma and YOU WILL LIKE IT

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I could do the next Smash

I'll cut the entire roster and replace it with a bunch of random niche SEGA characters and also George Constanza from Seinfeld

I’ll accept on the condition that you add Elaine Benes for DLC

 

[Jondolio]

I appreciate that y'all are honest about not having impulse control but I genuinely don't think I'd go beyond the characters I listed on my dream roster

Maybe I'd replace Chief, Waluigi, and Dragaux with characters that appeal to me more personally but that's probably it

 

[Speed Weed]

I’ll accept on the condition that you add Elaine Benes for DLC

I see this as an absolute win

 

[SKX31]

So that leaves Melee to Brawl, and Brawl to Smash 4.

Nintendo was going to go and just release Melee with wifi if Sakurai wasn't available to make Brawl. Could that have been the time? Maybe Sakurai hated the idea of just an updated release at that time.

Safe to say that that's a bullet dodged even without the almighty powers of hindsight.

I don't see any scenario where Melee's very fast, interactive extension-heavy gameplay works with a single Wiimote (or even Wiimote + nunchuk). Now yes, Wiimote (either alone or with nunchuk) doesn't work well with Brawl's engine either - and that engine is intentionally more forgiving. Also, a certain elephant in the room would probably not be entirely butterflied away:

Because that had already become an intense series of flamewars on GameFAQS / here as early as 2003 / 2004... and just continued on (it's easily seen when going back to old Melee / Brawl threads). Something which only intensified during 2005 / 2006 as the competitive scene started to coalescence around that time and nicknames like "The King of Smash" -aka. SephirothKen or just Ken - was already used.

Not only that, but what actually gets butterflied away is all of Brawl's content. No newcomers, SSE or other stuff like the pretty-underrated Coin Launcher - not at least for a while. I'm pretty sure there'd be a significant segment of the playerbase who'd vocally complain about "Only Melee with Wi-Fi? WTF?!"

All that and Melee on Nintendo's wi-fi at the time... man.

Also, this thread suddenly shifted onto "What if I designed Smash 6"?

Imma join in and include a deep cut:

AND NO ONE WILL STOP ME DAMNIT

 

[Guynamednelson]

I will do it. I will make the Smash Brother 6.

will there be any men of vector graphics involved

 

[PeridotGX]

will there be any men of vector graphics involved

Yes, but not before I add Opa-Opa. I'm a man of the people, and Speed Weed is, by all accounts, a person.

 

[ProfPeanut]

The most interesting part of this to me is that he has tried, and seemingly failed, to find a successor. That's definitely something to think about.

I can think up two reasons why from the top of my head:

Either it's Sakurai's usual ambitiousness and he couldn't come up with a name who has enough drive for the project to make it big/different enough. After all, he made a point of not being a fan of sequels that play things too safe.

Or no suitable developer had the name power to deal with all the different IPs' rightsholders necessary for a game like Smash. Sakurai gathered a lot of respect in the industry over the years and I can think of some characters who may not have got in Smash if it wasn't for him, Nintendo's unlimited budget works or not.

This is mostly baseless speculation, of course, unless he elaborates on this subject.

Most people tend to take Sakurai's incredible credentials for granted. The fact is that there's, well, no one we can really think of who's sincerely played every game out there like Sakurai has, let alone while also being a good game director.

Anyone can go around the internet and easily find people offer all sorts of recommendations of how each franchise's representation in Smash could be improved...but the thing is, that's the recommendations of hundreds of different fans from different backgrounds, who can only really focus on the franchises they love the most. You couldn't pick any one of them to direct the entirety of Smash, even if they have some really good improvements in mind, because it becomes inevitable that they neglect the games that they aren't as familiar with. (This is as easy to prove as looking up any decently-long Smash fanfiction and seeing which franchises get focused and which ones get neglected.)

That's the real problem with trying to make "Smash" as Sakurai has characterized it—you need either a lone director who can both appreciate any game thrown at them while knowing how to design a simple yet deep game, or a collective committee that could cover all your corners, yet might make the process of making the game so much more complicated without a single director to watch it all. Frankly, we've got plenty examples in the modern day of how games directed by anyone less turn out.

 

[Ivander]

So part of Sakurai's last Famitsu column leaked.

スマブラ・桜井政博さん「（続編は）ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 | ゲームよりどりサブカルみどりパーク

ファミ通最新号より Q次回作を作ることは可能ですか？ 「ムリですね！ムリ、ムリ！」 「続編は考えていない。毎度考えていない。しかしこれでスマブラは最後ですとは言い切れない」 「ユーザーをがっかりさせる行為をしてまでスマブラを出すべきなのかは考える必要がある」 「スマブラを私抜きで制作するのはいまのところ道筋が見えない」 「正直人に任せたいとおもっていて実際試したこともあるがうまくいっていない」 「シリーズを継続するのなら私と任天堂でやり取りを行いそうすれば成功するのか議論しなければ、真剣に考えるべき議題」 ファミ通コラム、スマブラSP制作おつかれさまでした！...

ryokutya2089.com

He says he's currently not thinking about the next game, but he does say that "I can't say this is the last Smash Bros." Goes on to add "I don't see how Smash Bros. can be produced without me at the moment. To be honest, I'd rather leave it to someone else, and I've tried, but it hasn't worked out. If we're going to continue with the series, we need to have a dialogue between me and Nintendo and discuss how we can make it work, so it's an issue we need to think about seriously."

I'm quite curious on how he thinks it can work. Like there are some things that you can understand are probably crucial to making Smash Bros., like a vast knowledge of video games, an understanding of fighting games and mechanics, the understanding of keeping fighters true to their games, someone who can handle alot of pressure and knows to keep their eyes on the prizes for the fans than just what the companies want to prioritise......
But at the same time, we don't know exactly what Sakurai is prioritising, so there could be some things that he considers more important than just the above.

 

[War Anvil]

Yes, but not before I add Opa-Opa. I'm a man of the people, and Speed Weed is, by all accounts, a person.

It sure would be WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILD if you helped pencil in a certain talking pencil named Woody.

But in all seriousness, Misty, Dixie Kong, Shantae, a different Sonic/SEGA rep, and Takamaru are all pretty much my top five regarding future most wanted characters.