Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Laniv]

I'm having urges to start complaining about Joker again hold me back.

I wanna hear it

 

[BrawlX10]

If Bandai Namco sticks around for the development of the next game (which they probably will), I still think Nightmare wouldn't be too far-fetched.

A Soul Callibur rep is really overlocked in general.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

A Soul Callibur rep is really overlocked in general.

Bandai Namco has enough cool IP's they could just make their own Smash clone to fit them in.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

View attachment 400486

I wanna hear it

Last time I talked about my issues with Joker in Smash I was like 14 and I made a fool of myself cause I was like, Unreasonably angry about it.
Basically I just feel like Joker didn't deserve to be one of the handful of third party characters in Smash since when he was added his first game appearance was really recent, Persona 5 came out in September 2016 in Japan and from then to December 2018 that was only like two years.
I wouldn't really mind that if he was a first party character but I feel like third parties should always be someone who's been around for a long time.
And also he doesn't really represent Persona very well. He only uses one Persona when pretty much the whole gameplay of Persona and SMT is using multiple different ones. And also Persona 1 and 2 get zero representation, And 3 and 4 get no Spirits. Also no Personas/Demons are represented aside from Arsene which is a problem because again, They're kind of the point of the games.
And then of course the entire SMT series outside of Persona is unrepresented. It's equivalent to if the only Final Fantasy content was exclusively from Final Fantasy 7, And they would never do something like that.
Final point is that I just really, Really, Feel like it should have been Jack Frost since he's the mascot of Atlus, He's been around for a long time, And he's in Persona and SMT so you don't have to piss anyone off. Joker getting in instead just kind of reeks of recency bias and corporate meddling to me but what do I know, A lot of people liked him.

 

[ninjahmos]

Bandai Namco has enough cool IP's they could just make their own Smash clone to fit them in.

I'd love to see Bamco make their own Platfighter that's a crossover of their own franchises.

 

[Laniv]

Last time I talked about my issues with Joker in Smash I was like 14 and I made a fool of myself cause I was like, Unreasonably angry about it.
Basically I just feel like Joker didn't deserve to be one of the handful of third party characters in Smash since when he was added his first game appearance was really recent, Persona 5 came out in September 2016 in Japan and from then to December 2018 that was only like two years.
I wouldn't really mind that if he was a first party character but I feel like third parties should always be someone who's been around for a long time.
And also he doesn't really represent Persona very well. He only uses one Persona when pretty much the whole gameplay of Persona and SMT is using multiple different ones. And also Persona 1 and 2 get zero representation, And 3 and 4 get no Spirits. Also no Personas/Demons are represented aside from Arsene which is a problem because again, They're kind of the point of the games.
And then of course the entire SMT series outside of Persona is unrepresented. It's equivalent to if the only Final Fantasy content was exclusively from Final Fantasy 7, And they would never do something like that.
Final point is that I just really, Really, Feel like it should have been Jack Frost since he's the mascot of Atlus, He's been around for a long time, And he's in Persona and SMT so you don't have to piss anyone off. Joker getting in instead just kind of reeks of recency bias and corporate meddling to me but what do I know, A lot of people liked him.

Yknow what, very fair points

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Yknow what, very fair points

Thank you.

 

[Lukingordex]

How do you all feel if Results Screens of the next game were more like 64 and Brawl:
View attachment 400462
View attachment 400463

I strongly miss the brawl results screen theme. It was such a banger. Honestly hope it returns.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A Soul Callibur rep is really overlocked in general.

Even Namco overlooks the IP in general so we really can't be blamed.

It's a shame because Nightmare is like, my MOST wanted third-party

 

[Gengar84]

Last time I talked about my issues with Joker in Smash I was like 14 and I made a fool of myself cause I was like, Unreasonably angry about it.
Basically I just feel like Joker didn't deserve to be one of the handful of third party characters in Smash since when he was added his first game appearance was really recent, Persona 5 came out in September 2016 in Japan and from then to December 2018 that was only like two years.
I wouldn't really mind that if he was a first party character but I feel like third parties should always be someone who's been around for a long time.
And also he doesn't really represent Persona very well. He only uses one Persona when pretty much the whole gameplay of Persona and SMT is using multiple different ones. And also Persona 1 and 2 get zero representation, And 3 and 4 get no Spirits. Also no Personas/Demons are represented aside from Arsene which is a problem because again, They're kind of the point of the games.
And then of course the entire SMT series outside of Persona is unrepresented. It's equivalent to if the only Final Fantasy content was exclusively from Final Fantasy 7, And they would never do something like that.
Final point is that I just really, Really, Feel like it should have been Jack Frost since he's the mascot of Atlus, He's been around for a long time, And he's in Persona and SMT so you don't have to piss anyone off. Joker getting in instead just kind of reeks of recency bias and corporate meddling to me but what do I know, A lot of people liked him.

I’m really happy Joker is in Smash since I loved Personas 3-5 but I agree I was a bit let down by his moveset. I was hoping for a more standard summoner character with a wider variety of Personas rather than just Arsene. Although I suppose this is more consistent with how the characters played in Persona 4 Arena. It also frees up the summoner gimmick for a character like Yuna, Sarah Kerrigan, or Princess Garnet. I haven’t had the chance to play the other SMT games yet (unless you count Metaphor) so I’m happy we got Joker.

 

[Watuna4343]

I guess I am lower on the 3rd parties than most of you are. Imo outside of Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man and Ryu, I think we'd be lucky to get a 5th returnee in the base game of Ultimate and like 1 more for DLC. And my reasoning for that is that ease of negotiation doesn't (fully) matter. It's a matter of priorities. Here's the thing, I actually think every company/developer in the game would be keen to bring their characters back (with Square Enix being a potential asterisk but still more easy than not) BUT... it is gonna come down to priorities at the end of the day. And that's where my belief on most 3rd parties not coming back comes from. In a future game where not everyone can come back the reality of the situation is that Sakurai/Nintendo is not going to prioritize 3rd party characters over their own IPs. There will be exceptions of course with low hanging fruits from the Nintendo side but the reality is that more than half of the Nintendo characters will take priority compared to an Ultimate 3rd party newcomer.
You also have to consider that in a future Smash game, there has to be room for newcomers - and that includes the 3rd parties as well. If you take into account that there will be at least 1 new IP, or 2 (given that barring echoes, every Smash game since Brawl introduced 2 3rd parties in its base game) and with the aforementioned 4, there's already 6 3rd party characters, and mind ya, that's in a smaller roster. How much more room is Sakurai/Nintendo going to have for more guests compared to their homegrown characters? Because it's easy to forget the simple fact (since the majority of people online have) that Smash Bros is at the end of the day a Nintendo cross-over first and foremost.
But Snake in Smash 4 is the best hint on what'll happen in most of the 3rd parties - they just won't be sought after. Konami I'm sure was going to give Snake back to Sakurai if he really wanted but Sakurai at the end decided to leave Snake as Brawl character (before Ultimate obviously). This is what I think is most likely to happen with the 3rd parties (particularly Ultimate). They just won't be sought after, despite the companies being willing to bring them back. And again, the case for newcomers isn't highlighted enough. Both in base game and DLC, newcomers will be very high priority and that leaves the 3rd parties with even more limited space.

For all those reasons it's really hard to make a case for Ultimate's 3rd party characters coming back (yes, even the bigger catches like Steve and Sora). I think the only ones to not be DOA come next game are probably like Banjo and Kazooie, since they were both highly requested and very much connected to Nintendo. Everyone else I think is hoping for a DLC return.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

In my opinion Sonic is the only third party character who I think has to come back. I wouldn't mind if he was the only one to come back. He's the only third party character to be in three Smash games and he's more popular than he's ever been before nowadays, Hopefully he gets a move set update.

(Pac-Man is probably the next one after Sonic.)

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Ngl, it was weird they decided to represent Persona first instead of Shin Megami Tensei, Especially the latter having stronger Nintendo history.

Probably because SMTV was in development hell at the time and Persona was this new hot thing but still, would better if they had Demifiend, Nalahino or Jack Frost. More creature characters than anything.

Still, I still enjoyed Joker inclusion, well more the atmosphere than the actual character. Banging to Last Surprise with friends was fun before matches was fun

 

[ninjahmos]

I'd say this is a much improved version of Shadow's moveset for Ultimate:

 

[BrawlX10]

So someone told me that there likely won't be a Smash 6 because "Smash is runing out of potential newcomer characters to add".
Are there people who actually think Smash is runing out of new characters to add or it's this guy just messing with me, honestly i can't tell anymore....
Heck, i don't think we're ever even going to be close to run out of new franchises to add , let alone videogames characters....which are there like millions of them.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I'd say this is a much improved version of Shadow's moveset for Ultimate:

My opinion is that Shadow would be closer to a semi-clone or even something similar to Wolf where the character has stuff from Sonic but his moveset is overwise different enough.

So someone told me that there likely won't be a Smash 6 because "Smash is runing out of potential newcomer characters to add".
Are there people who actually think Smash is runing out of new characters or it's this guy just messing with me, honestly i can't tell anymore....

Especially since there are lot of characters that are requested that aren’t in the game

 

[cashregister9]

I'm not even the biggest persona fan anymore, but saying that one of the SMT protagonists would have represented the franchise better just feels whatever to me, I feel like they would have represented it about equally. Still think SMT should get a protagonist though, I'd go for Raidou Kuzunoha, Nahobino or Demifiend

Now you won't hear me complain about Jack Frost, love that little dude.

And personally I am glad Joker didn't have a summoner moveset, I feel that would have made his kit really bloated, and I find current Joker fun to play, that is all personal stuff though.

So someone told me that there likely won't be a Smash 6 because "Smash is runing out of potential newcomer characters to add".
Are there people who actually think Smash is runing out of new characters to add or it's this guy just messing with me, honestly i can't tell anymore....

Sometimes it is hard to remember that most people aren't as deep into this Smash speculation stuff as we are lmao.

 

[NotGenerico]

There is one thing that makes me think it's likely that Joker, Snake and the Belmonts are coming back:

This was one of those Spirit Events we got last year. 13 Sentinels and Power Pros are Atlus and Konami properties respectively. If we go with the idea that Sakurai's 2022 project is Smash, Konami and Atlus getting Spirits in 2024 makes me think that they're still on board for the next game.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Has anyone ever talked about how weird Pac-Man's representation in Smash is? Like the representation is almost exclusively the original arcade game and also Pac-Land for some reason. Like, Pac-Land is such a strange game choice to be such a big part of the representation.

 

[Laniv]

Has anyone ever talked about how weird Pac-Man's representation in Smash is? Like the representation is almost exclusively the original arcade game and also Pac-Land for some reason. Like, Pac-Land is such a strange game choice to be such a big part of the representation.

And then they dropped Pac-Maze

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Of course this gets super subjective in some cases. The "but it's about all of gaming" thing feels like it's pulled out in convenient cases but never actually followed to its logical conclusion - we don't REALLY expect World of Warcraft, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, etc etc etc to suddenly be represented, despite clearly making the cut if we truly embrace that mindset.

People ask for characters like Crash Bandicoot, Freddy Fazbear, Doomguy, Master Chief, Even like, Jonesy Fortnite, And those range from multi console to particularly tied to a non Nintendo console. I think it's probably more likely that the reason people don't ask for WoW, Cod, and GTA representation is cause there isn't really a clear character choice.
I think it's a thing where like, You don't just need to have a popular game but it's good to have a popular character too.

And then they dropped Pac-Maze

I still don't understand why some of the cut stages from Smash 4 were removed. Pac-Maze and Rainbow Road especially like, Those are some pretty iconic locations.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Has anyone ever talked about how weird Pac-Man's representation in Smash is? Like the representation is almost exclusively the original arcade game and also Pac-Land for some reason. Like, Pac-Land is such a strange game choice to be such a big part of the representation.

I think they have added more stuff from other Pac-Man games but probably old enough to still feel retro or fit with his current art style. Such more stuff from the 90s and 00s such as Pac-Man World (outside of just up air and jab).

They should have added Pac-Maze from 3DS instead of Pac-Land as the stage in Ultimate. They could have worked around any issues.

 

[Ivander]

So someone told me that there likely won't be a Smash 6 because "Smash is runing out of potential newcomer characters to add".
Are there people who actually think Smash is runing out of new characters to add or it's this guy just messing with me, honestly i can't tell anymore....
Heck, i don't think we're ever even going to be close to run out of new franchises to add , let alone videogames characters....which are there like millions of them.

I can understand those who know little of Nintendo or aren't hardcore gamers who research into everything, but no one dedicated to Nintendo or Smash Bros would even think of Smash Bros running out of characters to add. Nintendo only has 20 franchises and 4 stand-alones with a playable character. That would probably only be around a quarter of all the franchises and stand-alone games Nintendo has in total.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still don't understand why some of the cut stages from Smash 4 were removed. Pac-Maze and Rainbow Road especially like, Those are some pretty iconic locations.

Pac-Maze's stage mechanics were based upon the multiplayer aspect of the 3DS itself. So it was a matter of "we can't do what we want with it this time around". Not that we needed the mechanic anyway, but it does make sense from that perspective. That said, it could've also caused issues with Stage Morph or something for all we know. We only have a decent guess for its cut(no longer does the job they want), and a loose guess(stage morph) for the other. There could always be another reason, though.

Rainbow Road is harder to say. I guess some stages they weren't happy with or something??

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I assume Rainbow Road relied heavily on porting the assets of Mario Kart 7's track, and bringing that over to the Switch and doing everything up all pretty and HD was probably more work than they were willing to put in. It's one of the larger Rainbow Roads as well since it's a three-segment one.

We do now have a revamped HD version thanks to the BCP so if they do ever decide to bring back that particular Rainbow Road stage then they have some stuff to work with.

 

[Gengar84]

People ask for characters like Crash Bandicoot, Freddy Fazbear, Doomguy, Master Chief, Even like, Jonesy Fortnite, And those range from multi console to particularly tied to a non Nintendo console. I think it's probably more likely that the reason people don't ask for WoW, Cod, and GTA representation is cause there isn't really a clear character choice.
I think it's a thing where like, You don't just need to have a popular game but it's good to have a popular character too.

Hey, I ask for WarCraft characters all the time lol. There are a ton of great characters to choose from but my personal favorite is Illidan Stormrage. I just think he’d be so awesome in Smash. He’s got a really cool and unique design, unique weapons, and a ton of moveset potential. He’s been among my favorite video game characters since WarCraft 3 before I even knew his name. I just knew him as the Night Elf Hero, Demon Hunter.

Here’s a moveset I made for him a while back:

Spoiler

Gimmicks and Traits

Metamorphosis - Illidan has a powerup state similar to Sephiroth’s One Winged Angel mode and Joker’s Rebellion guage. In this mode, Illidan transforms into his demonic form and gains additional jumps. He also is engulfed in an aura called “immolation” which deals slight damage to anyone near him.

Betrayer’s Thirst - Illidan’s glaive and melee attacks drain 15% health of the damage dealt (he drained 30% in his games but I feel like that would be a bit overpowered in Smash so I cut it in half).

By default, Illidan is a fairly fast and lightweight fighter despite his size. While his weight in his normal form is relatively light, he has a bit of added survivability due to his Betrayer’s thirst. His demonic form adds more weight and helps him utilize the draining effect of his attacks.

Weak Attacks

Jab - Illidan performs two quick horizontal slashes followed by a spinning more powerful attack with his glaives. This represents Demon Hunter’s basic combo in WarCraft 3.

Forward Tilt - Illidan slashes his glaives forward in an X pattern.

Up Tilt - Illidan slashes upwards with his glaives similar to Cloud’s up smash.

Down Tilt - Illidan performs a low sweeping attack across the ground with his glaives.

Running Attack - Illidan leaps forward and stabs his glaives downward into the ground.

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash - Illidan throws his glaives forward and they spin in place similar to Pyra’s forward special

Down Smash - Illidan fires a beam of green energy from his eyes diagonally downward at the same angle as Sephiroth’s down smash.

Up Smash - Illidan creates a fire pillar directly in front of him around the same size as Palutena’s up smash.

Specials

Neutral special – Mana Burn – Illidan attacks with a green beam of energy from his hands at a medium range. This deals continuous damage similar to Bowser's flamethrower attack as long as Illidan holds the attack button. On top of dealing damage, it also gradually drains the gauges of any characters that use them like Cloud, Joker, and Steve.

Up Special – Flame– Illidan dives upwards and propels several fireballs diagonally downwards

Down special – Evasion – This is a lot like Lucario’s counter. Illidan evades an attack and teleports behind the opponent to strike them

Forward special – Sweeping strike – Illidan dashes forward and performs two quick slashes at the opponent.

Aerials

Neutral Air - Illidan fires a beam from his eyes diagonally downward. This is essentially Kazuya’s neutral aerial special while holding down.

Forward Air - Illidan creates a short range fiery explosion from his hand similar to Zelda’s up air but forwards.

Up Air - Illidan propels himself upwards in a motion similar to Kazuya’s up special but with less range and power.

Down Air - Illidan dives straight down head first at his opponent.

Grabs, Pummels, and Throws

Grab - Standard short range grab

Pummel - Illidan headbutts his opponent

Up Throw - Illidan flies upwards with his opponent and slams them into the ground similar to Charizard’s up throw.

Down Throw - Illidan slams his opponent’s head into the ground.

Forward Throw - Illidan performs a forward thrust kick similar to Ganondorf’s and Kazuya’s forward tilt.

Back Throw - Illidan tosses his opponent backwards.

Final Smash

Parasitic Shadowfiends - Illidan strikes his opponent and transitions to a cinematic cutscene where he summons an army of shadowy figures that deal massive damage to anyone caught in the attack as well as recovering some health for Illidan.

 

[BrawlX10]

I guess I am lower on the 3rd parties than most of you are. Imo outside of Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man and Ryu, I think we'd be lucky to get a 5th returnee in the base game of Ultimate and like 1 more for DLC. And my reasoning for that is that ease of negotiation doesn't (fully) matter. It's a matter of priorities. Here's the thing, I actually think every company/developer in the game would be keen to bring their characters back (with Square Enix being a potential asterisk but still more easy than not) BUT... it is gonna come down to priorities at the end of the day. And that's where my belief on most 3rd parties not coming back comes from. In a future game where not everyone can come back the reality of the situation is that Sakurai/Nintendo is not going to prioritize 3rd party characters over their own IPs. There will be exceptions of course with low hanging fruits from the Nintendo side but the reality is that more than half of the Nintendo characters will take priority compared to an Ultimate 3rd party newcomer.
You also have to consider that in a future Smash game, there has to be room for newcomers - and that includes the 3rd parties as well. If you take into account that there will be at least 1 new IP, or 2 (given that barring echoes, every Smash game since Brawl introduced 2 3rd parties in its base game) and with the aforementioned 4, there's already 6 3rd party characters, and mind ya, that's in a smaller roster. How much more room is Sakurai/Nintendo going to have for more guests compared to their homegrown characters? Because it's easy to forget the simple fact (since the majority of people online have) that Smash Bros is at the end of the day a Nintendo cross-over first and foremost.
But Snake in Smash 4 is the best hint on what'll happen in most of the 3rd parties - they just won't be sought after. Konami I'm sure was going to give Snake back to Sakurai if he really wanted but Sakurai at the end decided to leave Snake as Brawl character (before Ultimate obviously). This is what I think is most likely to happen with the 3rd parties (particularly Ultimate). They just won't be sought after, despite the companies being willing to bring them back. And again, the case for newcomers isn't strong enough. Both in base game and DLC, newcomers will be very high priority and that leaves the 3rd parties with even more limited space.

For all those reasons it's really hard to make a case for Ultimate's 3rd party characters coming back (yes, even the bigger catches like Steve and Sora). I think the only ones to not be DOA come next game are probably like Banjo and Kazooie, since they were both highly requested and very much connected to Nintendo. Everyone else I think is hoping for a DLC return.

It really depends of the direction Smash 6 takes, if they double down on 3rdparties or if the high amount of 3rdparties was just a special case for Ultimate, cuz it's kinda hard to tell.
There's a decent chance that Nintendo wants Smash to evolove to be a "Videogame All-Stars hall of fame" after Ultimate success and the Nintendo characters that are not esential are the ones who actually are in risk or they return to the usual and only have like 5-6 3rdparties base game.

 

[Gengar84]

I think third parties drive too much hype and sales to scale back at this point. I suspect that they’ll always be the bulk of the DLC fighters from here on while the base game newcomers will mostly be first party with a couple new third party characters.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Last time I talked about my issues with Joker in Smash I was like 14 and I made a fool of myself cause I was like, Unreasonably angry about it.
Basically I just feel like Joker didn't deserve to be one of the handful of third party characters in Smash since when he was added his first game appearance was really recent, Persona 5 came out in September 2016 in Japan and from then to December 2018 that was only like two years.
I wouldn't really mind that if he was a first party character but I feel like third parties should always be someone who's been around for a long time.
And also he doesn't really represent Persona very well. He only uses one Persona when pretty much the whole gameplay of Persona and SMT is using multiple different ones. And also Persona 1 and 2 get zero representation, And 3 and 4 get no Spirits. Also no Personas/Demons are represented aside from Arsene which is a problem because again, They're kind of the point of the games.

Fair point on him only using Arsene, maybe it was a dev time issue but i think it would have been better if he cycled through about 3 different Persona's don't know who the third would be but for the first and second, Arsene of course and Jack frost would be absolutely required.

I feel like Persona 3 and 4's characters getting collectables should be reserved for if they decided to include Makoto and Yu, which you know they would think about given how popular they still are in the gaming space.

Has anyone ever talked about how weird Pac-Man's representation in Smash is? Like the representation is almost exclusively the original arcade game and also Pac-Land for some reason. Like, Pac-Land is such a strange game choice to be such a big part of the representation.

Feels more "namco arcade" than "Pacman" because of his taunt and several songs from other namco arcade properties showing up.

 

[BrawlX10]

I think third parties drive too much hype and sales to scale back at this point. I suspect that they’ll always be the bulk of the DLC fighters from here on while the base game newcomers will mostly be first party with a couple new third party characters.

I do agree that 3rdparties will probably make the bulk of DLC, but base game-wise i think it's possible they'll scale it down. Like Sonic, Megaman, Pac-man, Ryu an Steve are probably going to be base at least regardless of what they do, they can always add back some veteran 3rdparties down the line as DLC as well.
But i dunno, god knows.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Last time I talked about my issues with Joker in Smash I was like 14 and I made a fool of myself cause I was like, Unreasonably angry about it.

My issue with Joker in Smash is that he was a bit flavor-of-the-month at this time of his inclusion.

I prefer Smash characters, especially the 3P ones, to have more proven staying power.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My issue with Joker in Smash is that he was a bit flavor-of-the-month at this time of his inclusion.

I prefer Smash characters, especially the 3P ones, to have more proven staying power.

I mean, in the long run he did have staying power, so it balances out.

 

[BrawlX10]

I do agree that 3rdparties will probably make the bulk of DLC, but base game-wise i think it's possible they'll scale it down. Like Sonic, Megaman, Pac-man, Ryu an Steve are probably going to be base at least regardless of what they do, they can always add back some veteran 3rdparties down the line as DLC as well.
But i dunno, god knows.

Adding to this, i could see next Smash game having more than two fighter passes, specially if there's cuts. I think a Fighter Pass 3 (or whatever it's called next time around) at very least is pretty likely.
Also, if they cut a popular character like for example: Sepiroth, Sora, Palutena, Sheik, Lucas, Bowser Jr or Wolf for whatever reason i'm almost positive they're going to return as DLC, now characters like Corrin, Piranha Plant, Pichu and Roy i'm less sure about if they'll return as DLC if they're cut, but god knows.

 

[NintenRob]

Maybe Smash Bros will do what Pokémon did, and cut like half the characters, including some pretty essential characters, but then in the next game most will be back and different group is cut

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

for some reason that made me lol

Because "I want him because he lets me pretend a character I actually like is in the game" is a legitimately funny reason to want a character.

And then of course the entire SMT series outside of Persona is unrepresented. It's equivalent to if the only Final Fantasy content was exclusively from Final Fantasy 7, And they would never do something like that.

Actually, I think it's worse: It'd be like if Mario was represented exclusively through Yoshi's Island content.

I don't dislike Joker, but that's gotta be rough for Shin Megami Tensei fans.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think some of the most likely 3rd party newcomers for the next game might be ones that became Mii Costumes in Ultimate.

Watch me be wrong on this one lol

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Last time I talked about my issues with Joker in Smash I was like 14 and I made a fool of myself cause I was like, Unreasonably angry about it.
Basically I just feel like Joker didn't deserve to be one of the handful of third party characters in Smash since when he was added his first game appearance was really recent, Persona 5 came out in September 2016 in Japan and from then to December 2018 that was only like two years.
I wouldn't really mind that if he was a first party character but I feel like third parties should always be someone who's been around for a long time.
And also he doesn't really represent Persona very well. He only uses one Persona when pretty much the whole gameplay of Persona and SMT is using multiple different ones. And also Persona 1 and 2 get zero representation, And 3 and 4 get no Spirits. Also no Personas/Demons are represented aside from Arsene which is a problem because again, They're kind of the point of the games.
And then of course the entire SMT series outside of Persona is unrepresented. It's equivalent to if the only Final Fantasy content was exclusively from Final Fantasy 7, And they would never do something like that.
Final point is that I just really, Really, Feel like it should have been Jack Frost since he's the mascot of Atlus, He's been around for a long time, And he's in Persona and SMT so you don't have to piss anyone off. Joker getting in instead just kind of reeks of recency bias and corporate meddling to me but what do I know, A lot of people liked him.

This is an interesting one. As my profile picture clearly suggests, huge fan of smt (and classic persona seeing as I made the tatsuya support thread). So I am inclined to agree that SMT should have been there first due to its ties to nintendo, its bigger impact on the industry in the past, etc. And my own current bias also points in that dirction, especially now where P3R was a disappointment (enjoyed it enough but I massively prefer FES, and managed to get burnout at the 40 hour mark and just haven't had motivation to go back to it), and I absolutely adored VV, with it becoming a contender for my favourite megaten game.

But... Looking at it objectively Joker feels like a much better choice? A super stylish character from a game seemingly loved by just about everyone who played it. A huge surprise given his absence from nintendo consoles, similar to cloud (obviously not to the same extent).

And the thing is, it worked - he was a complete shock and completely changed the dialogue around the dlc from "probably mostly safe characters if nintendo is picking them" to "wait but if he was picked literally anyone is possible". I know people who hadn't even played persona who specifically bought him because he looked so cool. And it worked in reverse too, creating a whole new group of Persona fans (for better or... worse, looking at the current fanbase). I mean genuinely, I had a friend who had been trying to get me to play persona for months, and that was what made me finally get it (I got the game after the reveal but before he was released for what it's worth) - I literally wouldn't be a fan of SMT as a whole if it wasn't for his inclusion.

If they added Flynn or something? I can just see the reactions now: "Who even is this?", "Another anime swordfighter...", "Nobody asked for this nintendo!!!" (And the demi-fiend wouldn't be much better, at best he'd have been that one niche jrpg character people think they kinda remember).

So, as much as I will always wish the demi-fiend, or the nahobino, or flynn, or some other character was added (not jack frost though, I feel like for smt going with the funny mascot would completely go against representing the tone of the series), Joker going first was the correct move for all parties involved.

SMT V not getting spirits at least is genuinely baffling though and I will never understand it. Nintendo were basically marketing it as a first party game but instead the only spirit post-sora (not counting the more recent ones) was... evil ryu?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think some of the most likely 3rd party newcomers for the next game might be ones that became Mii Costumes in Ultimate.

Watch me be wrong on this one lol

It’s funny you say that, because none of the 3rd party Mii costumes in Nintendo 3DS/Wii U got upgraded to playable fighter status.

That said, I do think it is more likely this time around.

 

[Ivander]

It’s funny you say that, because none of the 3rd party Mii costumes in Nintendo 3DS/Wii U got upgraded to playable fighter status.

That said, I do think it is more likely this time around.

But we did get two(technically three if counting Rathalos Armor Hunter) who got upgraded to Assist Trophy status.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

But we did get two(technically three if counting Rathalos Armor Hunter) who got upgraded to Assist Trophy status.

A number likely to increase depending on which companies are involved in base.

A certain half-genie and bearded knight come to mind right away as the biggest candidates.

Also you forgot Knuckles :V