Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Geno Boost]

Here is a crazy smash pick no one ever talked about but it sold more than 50 million and had more than 350 million downloads and we all know this game.
I am talking about Bejeweled

I have seen many concept for Tetromino but surprisingly no one has ever attempted to do a smash move set on Bejeweled rep it might be interesting to see how something like this would fight it would be tricky but might require creativity.
sucks this is owned by EA currently.

 

[Yamat08]

Yes, because the franchise that sold 81 million units, serves as Xbox's gaming mascot, and as a launch title secured the foundation of what Xbox is known for is not iconic because it did not get a Mii Costume. You can want Doomslayer in. Heck, I would love for him to be in. But don't say just outright false things like this and state them as fact, it weakens your argument and makes you and Doom Slayer fans look bad.

If anything, the Mii costume may've ironically hurt Doom Slayer's chances. I did acknowledge before that it isn't a hard, set-in-stone rule that third-party Mii costumes can't be upgraded to Fighters, and it could be liable to be broken as early as the next Smash game (especially given how many big characters got the Mii treatment in Ultimate). Even so, it might be worth asking the simple question: what can a full-fledged Doom Slayer actually do that the Mii Gunner can't already? That might be what ultimately kills certain characters' chances from getting that upgrade (especially since, unlike with Nintendo's own characters like Chrom, K. Rool, and Isabelle, this would entail a LOT of back-and-forth between third-parties to get the portrayals of their characters just right, making it seem less worth it when the Mii alternative's already there). Hell, for all we know, this could actually be what killed Geno's chances, or at least partially why we got Kazuya over Heihachi.

I mean, I think the Federation Force Soldier look would've worked good for a Mii Gunner costume. Even if that's not saying much considering there are a whole lot of concepts/characters that would work good as Mii Costumes.

Just while I'm on the subject of Miis, can anyone see any backlash if Federation Force Soldier did get in as a costume? I mean, Federation Force was a VERY unpopular game, so I could imagine a lot of people who'd be unhappy with the fact that the game's playable character had the privilege of joining Smash, even as a mere skin (especially since Miis seem to be serving as a consolation prize for a ton of characters who actually are heavily requested).

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah, no need to force-feed a genre if its options simply don't measure up to other possible picks. I wouldn't be against a hypothetical FPS rep if there were any that were actually significant to Nintendo, but I don't really see any right now.

If it's a famous series that can work in Smash, then why not? There's no real obstacle for characters of that kind of genre. They fit just as well as characters from other genres.

Edit: I also agree that the kinds of "big-name, third party, M-rated, Western shooter reps" that people keeping clamoring for are bad fits for the style of Smash.

But M-rated Hollywood movie style stealth reps and M-rated dark fantasy violent series featuring BDSM somehow aren't?

 

[Arcanir]

Just while I'm on the subject of Miis, can anyone see any backlash if Federation Force Soldier did get in as a costume? I mean, Federation Force was a VERY unpopular game, so I could imagine a lot of people who'd be unhappy with the fact that the game's playable character had the privilege of joining Smash, even as a mere skin (especially since Miis seem to be serving as a consolation prize for a ton of characters who are heavily requested).

Considering the costume would've followed Ridley and Dark Samus, along with Samus Returns' release, MP4's announcement, and even potentially Dread's announcement, most would've probably shrugged it off. FF's reception was mostly derived from its bad timing rather than anything inherent to the game, so taking it out of that context probably would've removed much of the negativity it could've gotten.

 

[Ivander]

Just while I'm on the subject of Miis, can anyone see any backlash if Federation Force Soldier did get in as a costume? I mean, Federation Force was a VERY unpopular game, so I could imagine a lot of people who'd be unhappy with the fact that the game's playable character had the privilege of joining Smash, even as a mere skin (especially since Miis seem to be serving as a consolation prize for a ton of characters who actually are heavily requested).

A Mii Costume? Nah. Part of Federation Force's issue was that it came at a very not-good timing when Metroid really wasn't getting any notable titles after Metroid Other M. With Samus Returns and Dread's release, as well as Ridley and Dark Samus in Smash and Metroid Prime 4 coming, alot of hate for the game has toned down and gone away.
So no, Federation Force getting a Mii costume would probably be met with just neutral reception. Some may think it's okay, some may still be sour, most would probably just shrug it off.

 

[SPEN18]

If it's a famous series that can work in Smash, then why not? There's no real obstacle characters of that kind genre. They fit just as well as characters from other genres.

It's not the genre itself. Dark Samus is a fine FPS rep, even if made unique. I just don't see any good choices for newcomers from FPSs that are important to Nintendo.

In terms of being bad fits stylistically, I would consider making an exception if the character was super significant to Nintendo and was at least able to be accurately represented in a family-friendly way. But both are sticking points to varying degrees when it comes to the highly requested FPS reps.

But M-rated Hollywood movie style stealth reps and M-rated dark fantasy violent series featuring BDSM somehow aren't?

I didn't say I agreed with Snake and Bayonetta being in, did I? I think they are poor fits as well.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It's not the genre itself. Dark Samus is a fine FPS rep, even if made unique. I just don't see any good choices for newcomers from FPSs that are important to Nintendo.

In terms of being bad fits stylistically, I would consider making an exception if the character was super significant to Nintendo and was at least able to be accurately represented in a family-friendly way. But both are sticking points to varying degrees when it comes to the highly requested FPS reps.

You're kind of putting an unnecessary limit on the choices by only just going for characters that are significant to Nintendo. Obviously the FPS genre is not exactly a genre that Nintendo specializes on but if we're talking about bringing some history into Smash (something that is important to Sakurai), then why not include one of the most famous pioneers of the genre that also happens to have a long history on Nintendo consoles, as well as its whole series on the most recent one? And it's not like Doom Slayer can't work in a family friendly way either, as evident by other M-rated characters already in Smash.

I didn't say I agreed with Snake and Bayonetta being in, did I? I think they are poor fits as well.

But you also mentioned how you'll accept reps that are significant to Nintendo and with Bayonetta 2 being funded by them, I say that sounds quite significant to me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, no need to force-feed a genre if its options simply don't measure up to other possible picks. I wouldn't be against a hypothetical FPS rep if there were any that were actually significant to Nintendo, but I don't really see any right now.

Edit: I also agree that the kinds of "big-name, third party, M-rated, Western shooter reps" that people keeping clamoring for are bad fits for the style of Smash.

I mean, if we're going that way, would that not eventually open up positions for say, Call of Duty soldiers? You know, the sport and gaming game genres are also very popular and sell real good, are we gonna turn famous or fictive racers and sportsmen into Smash fighters ?

There has to be a limit. And I think FPS characters are beyond that limit.

I mean, we're also hesitant for fourth party characters right ? Cause if we're breaching limits, I would think certain anime characters, super heroes or cartoon characters are even better fits than anything relating FPS in Smash honestly.

Yeah, that's how much I dislike the idea. I don't care for others opinion or approval, I'd hate the idea and would rather welcome SpongeBob, Goku, Spider Man and Mickey Mouse to Smash.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I mean, if we're going that way, would that not eventually open up positions for say, Call of Duty soldiers? You know, the sport and gaming game genres are also very popular and sell real good, are we gonna turn famous or fictive racers and sportsmen into Smash fighters ?

If that was the case, COD characters would have already been in high demand, as people don't have to wait for one character in a genre to ask for another one. You can see this with the demand for Doom Slayer.

And uh...doesn't Smash already a racing character in the series?

There has to be a limit. And I think FPS characters are beyond that limit.

I mean, we're also hesitant for fourth party characters right ? Cause if we're breaching limits, I would think certain anime characters, super heroes or cartoon characters are even better fits than anything relating FPS in Smash honestly.

Yeah, that's how much I dislike the idea. I don't care for others opinion or approval, I'd hate the idea and would rather welcome SpongeBob, Goku, Spider Man and Mickey Mouse to Smash.

So...why are you so against FPS characters in Smash?

 

[RileyXY1]

Doom Slayer makes a lot of sense when he has his series on Nintendo consoles and already a Mii costume, whereas Master Chief doesn't have either. Also, Master Chief is not "far more" iconic either. With all the things DOOM has done, you can't take that away from the character or his series.



Not with Doom Slayer already being a Mii costume and having two hit games in recent years, along with his historical impact.



What the heck? Nobody said that!

Well, it is hard to implement Doomguy without elevating the game's rating to at least a "T", so I think that he'll stay a Mii costume. I think that Smash might probably never add any FPS reps because that genre is just not popular in Japan.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Well, it is hard to implement Doomguy without elevating the game's rating to at least a "T", so I think that he'll stay a Mii costume. I think that Smash might probably never add any FPS reps because that genre is just not popular in Japan.

If that was the case, they wouldn't have wasted their time creating a Mii costume for him in the first place. And it's not like DOOM doesn't have any fans in Japan at all.

And no, it's not hard to make Doom Slayer work in Smash. The shooting is what defines him the most and he has numerous different weapons that he can use for his moveset (before you say anything, almost none of them are real-world weapons). The only thing he obviously won't be bringing is the Glory Kills but other than that, he works perfectly so he really doesn't need them.

 

[RileyXY1]

If that was the case, they wouldn't have wasted their time creating a Mii costume for him in the first place. And it's not like DOOM doesn't have any fans in Japan at all.

And no, it's not hard to make Doom Slayer work in Smash. The shooting is what defines him the most and he has numerous different weapons that he can use for his moveset (before you say anything, almost none of them are real-world weapons). The only thing he obviously won't be bringing is the Glory Kills but other than that, he works perfectly so he really doesn't need them.

A Mii costume is the best way to represent Doomguy as that's the only way you can represent the character without including his more violent attributes. Microsoft has better characters to choose from, and this applies to Bethesda.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think both Master Chief and Doom Slayer could be represented fairly faithfully in Smash as fighters, and both would be worthy of a spot. Why neither one is has gotten in as formal character likely comes down to a multitude of factors beyond the vague notion of which one deserves it more.

 

[SPEN18]

You're kind of putting an unnecessary limit on the choices by only just going for characters that are significant to Nintendo

I mean, you could try to say that about any kinds of limits: on "fourth party" characters, on adding PCs based on people from real life, etc. There have to be some. This one is a pretty simple and clear place to draw the line IMO; under my estimation, sticking to representing all of Nintendo is a reasonably achievable but still adequately ambitious scope, while trying to go much larger than that disjoints and defocuses the roster. To me, Master Chief and company are basically in the same boat as characters like Bugs Bunny and Shrek; like I said, they enlarge the scope too much.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If that was the case, COD characters would have already been in high demand, as people don't have to wait for one character in a genre to ask for another one. You can see this with the demand for Doom Slayer.

And uh...doesn't Smash already a racing character in the series?



So...why are you so against FPS characters in Smash?

Very easy, it's a genre that challenged Nintendo too directly and in my opinion, changed gaming for the worse. Platformers where king before FPS took over, and Halo is more to blame for this than Doom. Call of Duty also did their job, but regardless, "realism" and graphics became a far bigger focus in upcoming games ever since, and that's how Nintendo sort of seemed to miss out in a way, or that's what the general Sony-dominant gaming community claimed.

Also, it would translate into a very campy move set.

Yeah F-Zero is a racing franchise sure, but Captain Falcon by now is a bigger namesake than F-Zero is, he's almost as much a Smash character as he is a F-Zero character, it's easy to overlook. And it was a sort of sarcastic comparison anyway, but not entirely, cause FPS, sports and racing games are sort of the main genres of these "photo realistic" new games that are the unique selling points of Nintendo's competitors.

So yeah, I have my reasons. And I also feel that a FPS character will probably be extremely campy, so I'd hate playing against them too.

If I had to vote for one, gun held at my head, I'd vote James Bond cause he was even originally meant for Melee, and I imagine he'd be compromised like Snake, focussing more on gadgets than actual gunplay.

 

[Megadoomer]

I feel like the whole "M-rated series can't possibly fit in with Smash!" or "adding an M-rated character into Smash will bump up the age rating!" arguments should have died when Snake was added, or bare minimum when Bayonetta was added. It's been proven time and time again that the developers are able to tone down characters if needed, and yet people don't get it and think that it's a binary system where a character has to be translated 1-to-1 from how they were in their original game into Smash, or else they can't get into Smash at all.

(that line of thinking also seemed to lead to the idea that "Ridley's too big, so it's impossible to include him in Smash!" - not sure if there's any overlap)

As for Master Chief (and Doomguy, the Dragonborn, Tracer, or whoever else gets brought up), Smash already has two Microsoft characters in it (Banjo/Kazooie and Steve), so Master Chief (or any Microsoft-owned character) is definitely not comparable to the likes of Bugs Bunny, Shrek, or Goku.

 

[fogbadge]

If I had to vote for one, gun held at my head, I'd vote James Bond cause he was even originally meant for Melee, and I imagine he'd be compromised like Snake, focussing more on gadgets than actual gunplay.

no he wasnt. sakurai said that he would be a licencing nightmare to include which has been taken out of context

 

[Diddy Kong]

I feel like the whole "M-rated series can't possibly fit in with Smash!" argument should have died when Snake was added, or bare minimum when Bayonetta was added.

As for Master Chief, Smash already has two Microsoft characters in it, so he's definitely not comparable to the likes of Bugs Bunny, Shrek, or Goku.

It's not about being M-rated, it's just that I don't see it fit well with the themes of Smash Bros., and with Snake, they did their job really well, with his move set focussing on his close quarter combat, explosives, and stealth based tactics as the way he grabs and pummels.

I said it before, but there's a reason most third party characters are from RPGs, platformers and fighting games, those themes fit with Smash extremely well. FPS doesn't, like, at all.

 

[dream1ng]

A Mii costume is the best way to represent Doomguy as that's the only way you can represent the character without including his more violent attributes. Microsoft has better characters to choose from, and this applies to Bethesda.

Or it's... just including the character without including his more violent attributes.

He's only been glory killing since 2016; the series has existed much longer than that.

Smash is Smash and Doom is Doom and people know existing in one universe means you have to play by their rules. If Doom Slayer shoots Pikachu on Tortimer Island and Pikachu doesn't explode into a bloody heap, that's not going to come as a huge shock, because people know which game they're playing. Doesn't mean Doom Slayer has to put every firearm away and start Falcon Punching to fit in either, there's middle-ground.

Do you think people who wanted Bayonetta actually thought she'd be getting naked in Smash? Did that necessary change keep them from wanting it? Or keep Nintendo from adding her? Characters are tweaked to be able to pass through Smash's filter, and Bayo actually had pretty extensive changes; more than just the nudity. But she's still Bayo, and you take away the glory kills and maybe the assault rifle and the fabric of Doom Slayer hasn't irreparably dissolved.

I mean, you could try to say that about any kinds of limits: on "fourth party" characters, on adding PCs based on people from real life, etc. There have to be some. This one is a pretty simple and clear place to draw the line IMO; under my estimation, sticking to representing all of Nintendo is a reasonably achievable but still adequately ambitious scope, while trying to go much larger than that disjoints and defocuses the roster. To me, Master Chief and company are basically in the same boat as characters like Bugs Bunny and Shrek; like I said, they enlarge the scope too much.

There are some limits, but including characters that exist largely outside the Nintendo-sphere clearly isn't one of them.

And at this point Chief has, at least sort of, made appearances on a Nintendo platform. That's generally considered the main threshold.

It's not about being M-rated, it's just that I don't see it fit well with the themes of Smash Bros., and with Snake, they did their job really well, with his move set focussing on his close quarter combat, explosives, and stealth based tactics as the way he grabs and pummels.

I said it before, but there's a reason most third party characters are from RPGs, platformers and fighting games, those themes fit with Smash extremely well. FPS doesn't, like, at all.

Well the reason is because all the notable FPS series are western. RPGs, platformers and fighting games are very Japanese genres. If Smash didn't skew Japanese we'd undoubtably have the genre represented by now.

Master Chief fights aliens in space using giant hammers and energy swords. You raise Snake as an example of a character they focused on the aspects of which worked better in Smash - they could very easily do that with Chief as well. His series and much of its weaponry is hardly realistic.

The reason the series is an FPS is because it was designed to be a shooter. It's not that the world and the characters therein can't accommodate other genres.

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

Are people still using that factually false "important to Nintendo" rule, that was disproven over 3 years ago when Cloud was added? His only Nintendo appearance was a cameo in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the Gameboy Advance. Not at all important to Nintendo.

 

[Megadoomer]

It's not about being M-rated, it's just that I don't see it fit well with the themes of Smash Bros., and with Snake, they did their job really well, with his move set focussing on his close quarter combat, explosives, and stealth based tactics as the way he grabs and pummels.

I said it before, but there's a reason most third party characters are from RPGs, platformers and fighting games, those themes fit with Smash extremely well. FPS doesn't, like, at all.

I just find the "themes" argument to be a fairly weak one, historically speaking. I can recall back in the Smash 4 days, where people insisted that Metroid's thematically about isolation, so therefore, it makes Samus is the sole representative of the franchise in Smash while everything else is a stage hazard, assist trophy, Smash Run enemy, etc.

I get that it's a lot easier for a character to make the transition from a platformer (especially a 2D one) into Smash Bros., but that doesn't mean that it's impossible for characters from other genres to make it in. It's entirely possible for, say, a survival horror character like Leon or Jill from Resident Evil, or Alexandra Roivas or Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness if we're going with a Nintendo-owned example, to make it into Smash. Tonally, that's quite different from what Smash is going for, but the same thing could be said for a lot of other series.

Plus, there's no shortage of variety beyond just shooting things, whether you're talking about Master Chief or Doomguy. (or others, but those two seem to be the main topic of discussion) I haven't played the Halo games in a while, but aside from punches and pistol whips, there's also weapons like the Energy Sword or Gravity Hammer, along with armour abilities from what I recall (can't remember if that's Halo 4 or 5), and a Spartan was playable in Dead Or Alive assuming that Sakurai (or some other hypothetical director) would go for a deep cut. (and let's be honest, Sakurai would go for a deep cut)

As for Doomguy, there's the Glory Kills which could serve as a basis for a bunch of melee moves (punches, kicks, stomps, stabbing with the wristblade, etc.), along with the Crucible sword and energy hammer from Doom Eternal. In either case, there's more than enough material that would keep them from having a campy playstyle.

 

[Wonder Smash]

A Mii costume is the best way to represent Doomguy as that's the only way you can represent the character without including his more violent attributes. Microsoft has better characters to choose from, and this applies to Bethesda.

Doom Slayer can work accurately as a character without those violent attributes. It's not hard to see that if you know anything about the series. And there's no better Bethesda rep than Doom Slayer.

I mean, you could try to say that about any kinds of limits: on "fourth party" characters, on adding PCs based on people from real life, etc. There have to be some. This one is a pretty simple and clear place to draw the line IMO; under my estimation, sticking to representing all of Nintendo is a reasonably achievable but still adequately ambitious scope, while trying to go much larger than that disjoints and defocuses the roster. To me, Master Chief and company are basically in the same boat as characters like Bugs Bunny and Shrek; like I said, they enlarge the scope too much.

Doom Slayer is pretty much in the same boat as Bayonetta and Snake. He wouldn't be crossing any line.

Very easy, it's a genre that challenged Nintendo too directly and in my opinion, changed gaming for the worse. Platformers where king before FPS took over, and Halo is more to blame for this than Doom. Call of Duty also did their job, but regardless, "realism" and graphics became a far bigger focus in upcoming games ever since, and that's how Nintendo sort of seemed to miss out in a way, or that's what the general Sony-dominant gaming community claimed.

Also, it would translate into a very campy move set.

Look, it's okay to be a fan of Nintendo and what they make but you don't have to have some sort of loyalty to them. You're a fan, not a servant.

FPS games have been on Nintendo consoles before there was even an Xbox and it was genre they themselves were involved in when they owned Rare. So clearly, Nintendo is not just straight up against the genre itself like you are.

Yeah F-Zero is a racing franchise sure, but Captain Falcon by now is a bigger namesake than F-Zero is, he's almost as much a Smash character as he is a F-Zero character, it's easy to overlook. And it was a sort of sarcastic comparison anyway, but not entirely, cause FPS, sports and racing games are sort of the main genres of these "photo realistic" new games that are the unique selling points of Nintendo's competitors.

So yeah, I have my reasons. And I also feel that a FPS character will probably be extremely campy, so I'd hate playing against them too.

If I had to vote for one, gun held at my head, I'd vote James Bond cause he was even originally meant for Melee, and I imagine he'd be compromised like Snake, focussing more on gadgets than actual gunplay.

Doesn't change the fact that Captain Falcon comes from a racing game, so that kind of genre is obviously not a problem for Smash.

And unless you actually know the character and their series, you can't say for sure what their moveset would be like in Smash.

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

How does everyone feel about Jin Sakai, from Ghost of Tsushima, being in Smash? A Samurai Proto-Ninja fusion would be amazing imo, and all the different armor sets could be used as the alt costumes.

 

[RileyXY1]

Doom Slayer can work accurately as a character without those violent attributes. It's not hard to see that if you know anything about the series. And there's no better Bethesda rep than Doom Slayer.



Doom Slayer is pretty much in the same boat as Bayonetta and Snake. He wouldn't be crossing any line.



Look, it's okay to be a fan of Nintendo and what they make but you don't have to have some sort of loyalty to them. You're a fan, not a servant.

FPS games have been on Nintendo consoles before there was even an Xbox and it was genre they themselves were involved in when they owned Rare. So clearly, Nintendo is not just straight up against the genre itself.



Doesn't change the fact that Captain Falcon comes from a racing game, so that kind of genre is obviously not a problem for Smash.

And unless you actually know the character and their series, you can't say for sure what their moveset would be like in Smash.

For me the best Bethesda rep is the Dragonborn from Skyrim.

 

[Megadoomer]

How does everyone feel about Jin Sakai, from Ghost of Tsushima, being in Smash? A Samurai Proto-Ninja fusion would be amazing imo, and all the different armor sets could be used as the alt costumes.

I haven't played Ghost Of Tsushima; he could be a neat inclusion, though on the off chance that a Sony character gets into Smash, I feel like Kratos, Ratchet and Clank, and Sackboy (and maybe Aloy? Haven't played Horizon Zero Dawn either) seem more likely.

(also, if Nintendo wants to include a samurai-ninja fusion, Takamaru from the Mysterious Murasame Castle is right there)

 

[Wonder Smash]

For me the best Bethesda rep is the Dragonborn from Skyrim.

In this case, trying to argue which character is the best is irrelevant. It just boils down to which one you want the most.

 

[fogbadge]

Are people still using that factually false "important to Nintendo" rule, that was disproven over 3 years ago when Cloud was added? His only Nintendo appearance was a cameo in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the Gameboy Advance. Not at all important to Nintendo.

And re coded, and two theatrhytms

 

[RileyXY1]

Are people still using that factually false "important to Nintendo" rule, that was disproven over 3 years ago when Cloud was added? His only Nintendo appearance was a cameo in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the Gameboy Advance. Not at all important to Nintendo.

That's literally an argument people are making to support Doomslayer being more likely than Master Chief, which I don't think at all.

 

[SPEN18]

t also happens to have a long history on Nintendo consoles

I don't think just having ports on Nintendo consoles is enough. Those don't give the character much value to the success and history of Nintendo itself. Nintendo-published games are preferred, but failing that, Nintendo-exclusive games and (to a much lesser extent) games that are most famous for being on Nintendo are more meaningful to me than games that are mostly famous for their releases on other platforms. This is a place where I put down a much stricter boundary than most, but I think it well-founded and necessary to adequately contain the scope.

But you also mentioned how you'll accept reps that are significant to Nintendo and with Bayonetta 2 being funded by them, I say that sounds quite significant to me.

I said I would consider an exception. Bayonetta...well, I don't know if she's exactly for good boys and girls. Her influence isn't so overwhelming that I'd be willing to go the extra mile for her over others.

I mean, if we're going that way, would that not eventually open up positions for say, Call of Duty soldiers? You know, the sport and gaming game genres are also very popular and sell real good, are we gonna turn famous or fictive racers and sportsmen into Smash fighters ?

There has to be a limit. And I think FPS characters are beyond that limit.

I mean, we're also hesitant for fourth party characters right ? Cause if we're breaching limits, I would think certain anime characters, super heroes or cartoon characters are even better fits than anything relating FPS in Smash honestly.

What I mean is more the following: if Splatoon was exactly how it is but just from a first-person perspective, would you be okay with Inkling? Similarly, do you have a problem with representing non-hyperrealistic, T-rated, Nintendo-published FPS like Metroid Prime?

What I don't want to make exceptions for, though, is a literal Mercedes Benz car to represent Forza or a photorealistic soldier to represent an FPS.

There are some limits, but including characters that exist largely outside the Nintendo-sphere clearly isn't one of them.

And at this point Chief has, at least sort of, made appearances on a Nintendo platform. That's generally considered the main threshold.

I mean, I'm not talking about where the threshold is, but rather where I think it should be. In fact, I'm disagreeing with where Sakurai and Nintendo have put it.

 

[Wonder Smash]

That's literally an argument people are making to support Doomslayer being more likely than Master Chief, which I don't think at all.

Actually, that's the argument somebody is using AGAINST Doom Slayer.

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

I haven't played Ghost Of Tsushima; he could be a neat inclusion, though on the off chance that a Sony character gets into Smash, I feel like Kratos, Ratchet and Clank, and Sackboy (and maybe Aloy? Haven't played Horizon Zero Dawn either) seem more likely.

(also, if Nintendo wants to include a samurai-ninja fusion, Takamaru from the Mysterious Murasame Castle is right there)

Oh dude, seriously, play it. My favorite game of all time used to be Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, with nothing coming even close to it. Now, Majora's Mask is my second favorite game, with Ghost of Tsushima being the first, and Majora's Mask isn't even close to being first anymore (though still in second place).

 

[dream1ng]

I mean, I'm not talking about where the threshold is, but rather where I think it should be. In fact, I'm disagreeing with where Sakurai and Nintendo have put it.

And you're completely entitled to your opinion on who you thinks fits better than others. I still don't think Steve is a great fit, stylistically.

But the problem arises when you equate the limit of Nintendo relevance, which might be meaningful to you but is an unnecessary restriction that's been broken several time, with the limits of fourth-party and real people, which actually still seem intact.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I don't think just having ports on Nintendo consoles is enough. Those don't give the character much value to the success and history of Nintendo itself. Nintendo-published games are preferred, but failing that, Nintendo-exclusive games and (to a much lesser extent) games that are most famous for being on Nintendo are more meaningful to me than games that are mostly famous for their releases on other platforms. This is a place where I put down a much stricter boundary than most, but I think it well-founded and necessary to adequately contain the scope.

So you want characters that are more known for their history on Nintendo consoles? Because if so, I can understand that because those are the kind of characters I prefer myself.

But I'm also accepting of series that are known as being multiplatform too, as I don't associate them with just one console. Therefore, I don't think of non-Nintendo consoles when I think of them. DOOM, to me, is a true multi-platform series. I don't think of a series that is known for just Nintendo, Xbox, PlayStation, PC, SEGA, or any just one console. Instead, I think of a series that's been on all of them, including Nintendo. Therefore, Doom Slayer wouldn't look out of place in a Nintendo centered game, as I don't think of non-Nintendo consoles when I see him.

I said I would consider an exception. Bayonetta...well, I don't know if she's exactly for good boys and girls. Her influence isn't so overwhelming that I'd be willing to go the extra mile for her over others.

But you gotta admit, with Nintendo being so involved in her games, her reasons for being Smash shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I just think long term Nintendo is going to take at a serious look at the Bethesda/Id Software character that's been on their consoles, that also carved a pretty respectful PC legacy, and conclude that you know what? The space faring gun wielder that's battled creatures on Mars is a novel enough addition to the world of Smash.












Yup, Commander Keen in Smash 6 will be quite the reveal.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yup, Commander Keen in Smash 6 will be quite the reveal.

That just reminds me that B.J. Blazkowicz would be taking issue with people here calling Doomguy the "father of FPS".

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just think long term Nintendo is going to take at a serious look at the Bethesda/Id Software character that's been on their consoles, that also carved a pretty respectful PC legacy, and conclude that you know what? The space faring gun wielder that's battled creatures on Mars is a novel enough addition to the world of Smash.












Yup, Commander Keen in Smash 6 will be quite the reveal.

He should definitely appear in Smash in some way.

 

[Gengar84]

I had an idea that a lot of people seem to really dislike over on GameFAQs if they ever decided to start fresh and reboot the series. It seems pretty controversial but I might as well share it here and see what you guys think.

Assuming the next Smash reboots the series, I think a cool idea for Fire Emblem representation is to have a series of Hero or Bowser Jr. type characters based on weapon types or classes instead of focusing on just going with a separate character for the lord of each game. So basically, for example, we could have a sword Hero, a spear Hero, and an axe Hero (and possibly others for mages or archers etc..). Each of these units would have a different character represented for each outfit, similar to the Koopalings. Since most units of the same class in Fire Emblem fight nearly identically, this would allow for a much wider selection of characters and play styles without taking up too much roster space. You can even get a little creative with alts, as Cloud has shown, giving them some different Final Smash attacks, taunts, and voice clips, as long as the gameplay balance remains identical.

The main issue is, to go with this idea, we’d probably have to demote characters with derivative fighting styles like Lucina, Roy, and Chrom would have to be demoted to Marth alts and lose their unique traits. Some exceptions could be made for characters with very unique traits like Corrin that don’t fit neatly into a class. Okay ke wouldn’t work as a Marth moveset either, so he’d have to remain a unique character if we kept him. Same goes for Byleth, assuming any of these three return for a rebooted Smash game.

I feel like Fire Emblem Heroes probably expanded a lot of peoples appreciation for characters beyond just lords and there is actually a good way to represent a lot of these characters while remaining true to their gameplay in their home series. I’ve also personally always been a bigger fan of side characters like Tharja, Rinkah, Petra, Felix, Shamir, Lon’qu, and Lucia than the lords and this solution gives characters like these a chance. Something like this would likely only work if the series was rebooted and might require a lot of cuts to existing Fire Emblem characters in order to not overload the roster with Fire Emblem but I think it’s worth considering.

 

[SPEN18]

So you want characters that are more known for their association on Nintendo consoles than anything else? Because if so, I can understand that because those are the kind of characters I prefer myself.

Yeah, I think it is the most fair way to structure the roster.
I have seen some of your posts on Hayabusa and I'll say I appreciate your efforts to argue based on his relation to Nintendo.

But you gotta admit, with Nintendo being so involved in her games, her reasons for being Smash shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

Not a surprise, no, at least not in retrospect (she was far from expected when first revealed, though).

But the problem arises when you equate the limit of Nintendo relevance, which might be meaningful to you but is an unnecessary restriction that's been broken several time, with the limits of fourth-party and real people, which actually still seem intact.

I mean, we've had Dr. Kawashima and various Nintendogs as ATs, and we've had the Mickey Mouse symbol on Sora. We've also had active encouragement in their reveal trailer to use the Miis to make it feel like you're fighting as real people, even if IIRC they basically said that actually playing as real people would never happen. So not 100% intact.
But I hear you saying they're separate cases which should be argued for or against individually, which they are, yes. It is possible to support one without supporting the other, even though I personally feel that it's a pretty short leap from one to the other. For me, adding any of them is the same outcome of vastly enlarging the scope of the game to the point that it loses a significant chunk of its identity; this is what I meant by the comment (which I did preface with "to me").

 

[Quillion]

I had an idea that a lot of people seem to really dislike over on GameFAQs if they ever decided to start fresh and reboot the series. It seems pretty controversial but I might as well share it here and see what you guys think.

Assuming the next Smash reboots the series, I think a cool idea for Fire Emblem representation is to have a series of Hero or Bowser Jr. type characters based on weapon types or classes instead of focusing on just going with a separate character for the lord of each game. So basically, for example, we could have a sword Hero, a spear Hero, and an axe Hero (and possibly others for mages or archers etc..). Each of these units would have a different character represented for each outfit, similar to the Koopalings. Since most units of the same class in Fire Emblem fight nearly identically, this would allow for a much wider selection of characters and play styles without taking up too much roster space. You can even get a little creative with alts, as Cloud has shown, giving them some different Final Smash attacks, taunts, and voice clips, as long as the gameplay balance remains identical.

The main issue is, to go with this idea, we’d probably have to demote characters with derivative fighting styles like Lucina, Roy, and Chrom would have to be demoted to Marth alts and lose their unique traits. Some exceptions could be made for characters with very unique traits like Corrin that don’t fit neatly into a class. Okay ke wouldn’t work as a Marth moveset either, so he’d have to remain a unique character if we kept him. Same goes for Byleth, assuming any of these three return for a rebooted Smash game.

I feel like Fire Emblem Heroes probably expanded a lot of peoples appreciation for characters beyond just lords and there is actually a good way to represent a lot of these characters while remaining true to their gameplay in their home series. I’ve also personally always been a bigger fan of side characters like Tharja, Rinkah, Petra, Felix, Shamir, Lon’qu, and Lucia than the lords and this solution gives characters like these a chance. Something like this would likely only work if the series was rebooted and might require a lot of cuts to existing Fire Emblem characters in order to not overload the roster with Fire Emblem but I think it’s worth considering.

I wouldn't like to see different characters being in one character slot, but I'd be in favor of giving established characters different normalsets based on different weapons. Heck, this could even be combined with the idea that customs should come back but with each custom being entirely different moves rather than slapdash variants of existing moves (an idea Jotari has been very vocal about wanting).

That said, I stand by my statement that not every character should be given equal amounts of custom specials or normalsets.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What I mean is more the following: if Splatoon was exactly how it is but just from a first-person perspective, would you be okay with Inkling? Similarly, do you have a problem with representing non-hyperrealistic, T-rated, Nintendo-published FPS like Metroid Prime?

What I don't want to make exceptions for, though, is a literal Mercedes Benz car to represent Forza or a photorealistic soldier to represent an FPS.

Yes I would be okay with Inkling, they would still have the same basic abilities, but yeah, Splatoon isn't a FPS.

Metroid Prime I also have no objections about, but I feel the franchise just captures the feel of Metroid better in 2D as a Metroidvania, Dread solidified that.

Then again, Samus and Inkling are literal Nintendo characters, and have abilities that don't involve shooting, and their weapons aren't all that realistic either. Shooting ink? A literal arm canon that also shoot missiles and nuclear blasts alike from a Power Suit that can turn her into a ball? Yeah that's Nintendo.

This is why I'd feel a character from Overwatch might be the best choice if they'd absolutely have to have a FPS fighter, cause in Overwatch there's also a huge fantasy theme going on, and mixes shooting with magic and related stuff.