Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RileyXY1]

You can think he's at the top but definitely not higher than Doom Slayer.

Doom Slayer has many problems. I don't think he's terribly likely and there's much better FPS reps to add.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Skyrim guy would make a lot of sense too opposed to Doom guy.

 

[osby]

I think Skyrim guy would make a lot of sense too opposed to Doom guy.

Objection, Doomguy named his pet rabbit , he's literally created for Smash.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Finally finished up my Smash 6 prediction roster, will post it sometime in the evening (my time) since I assume that'll be when it's the most visible to everyone here.
A few fun facts that I'll post as a teaser for what I have in store:
-A total of 95 non-echo characters are in this roster, 13 more than Ultimate's 82. However, nine characters from Ultimate failed to make the jump to this roster, and four more arrive fashionably late as veteran DLC.
-Almost all of the Echoes return; one is turned into an alt costume, the other is gone entirely. Three new Echoes have been added.
-Including Echo fighters, there are 25 newcomers in total, just one above Ultimate's count. Of these, 15 are base game while 10 are DLC.
-Some newcomer slots I put in are actually placeholders for either a specific category, or a character appearing in a future title from the series they hail from.
-Out of all the newcomers, there is exactly one that I feel is actually interchangable with a veteran that I otherwise had cut. I will make sure to elaborate on this when I post the image, among other things.
-When I made this roster, I created it on two assumptions; Firstly, the assumption that Smash 6 will reuse a lot of Ultimate's code, framework and resources in order to keep a lot of its content while also saving time and energy in order to focus on more new content, and secondly, the assumption that Smash 6 in general will have a bit of a longer (but healthier) development cycle compared to each of the previous installments since Brawl all taking under 2-3 years to develop.
Lastly, I didn't make this as an absolute end-all decree about what Smash 6 will look like, but I did intend to basically show who I think is likely to show up, both in terms of returning characters (spoiler: a lot of them) and especially newcomers. I'm heading off for now since it's ridiculously late and I'm close to passing out in my chair, though I hope that I can spark some discussion when I post the image tomorrow (assuming I don't forget).

 

[DarthEnderX]

there's much better FPS reps to add.

Pretty much just Master Chief.

 

[Chuderz]

Quick little mini-rant I just want to say that "Doomguy" is the dumbest moniker/name to give him and it was such an obvious lazy capitulation to the internet. Doomer is a far superior name to give him both in that it kind of works as a name and it's also a slang term for pessimists these days. What a missed opportunity.

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

Isn't his name Doom Slayer? Also, he is the father of FPS, so there is factually nobody who would be better than him from that Genre. It'd be like adding Crash or Sonic before Mario (if Mario wasn't a Nintendo character, that is).

 

[Geno Boost]

Pretty much our FPS reps are currently and kinda
So yeah I think the best option for FPS reps are in the hands of Microsoft now they have Doom, Halo, Call of Duty and Overwatch and they are all multi million sellers

 

[DarthEnderX]

Isn't his name Doom Slayer?

As of 2016, yes.

Also, he is the father of FPS, so there is factually nobody who would be better than him from that Genre.

I still say MC is a bigger deal.

It'd be like adding Crash or Sonic before Mario (if Mario wasn't a Nintendo character, that is).

Or like...Cloud before Hero?

Pretty much our FPS reps are currently and kinda

And sometimes .

 

[RileyXY1]

As of 2016, yes.

I still say MC is a bigger deal.

Or like...Cloud before Hero?

And sometimes .

Mostly due to him being the literal face of the XBox brand, despite Halo being a newer game than Doom.

 

[fogbadge]

Pretty much our FPS reps are currently and kinda
So yeah I think the best option for FPS reps are in the hands of Microsoft now they have Doom, Halo, Call of Duty and Overwatch and they are all multi million sellers

spaltoon isnt fps

 

[JOJONumber691]

spaltoon isnt fps

Third Person Shooter it still counts.

 

[Ivander]

I see talk of FPS reps and yet I don't see any mention of Half-Life or Team Fortress 2. Like I remember The Heavy being a popular subject in Smash speculation in terms of FPS reps.
And I'm positive Gordon Freeman could rival Doomslayer and Master Chief in iconic FPS reps. Heck, even Sakurai talked about Half-Life and how "Nintendo" it felt. And Gordon Freeman can certainly bring a lot of wacky and weird stuff to Smash, especially if they mix in Portal.

 

[RileyXY1]

I see talk of FPS reps and yet I don't see any mention of Half-Life or Team Fortress 2. Like I remember The Heavy being a popular subject in Smash speculation in terms of FPS reps.
And I'm positive Gordon Freeman could rival Doomslayer and Master Chief in iconic FPS reps. Heck, even Sakurai talked about Half-Life and how "Nintendo" it felt. And Gordon Freeman can certainly bring a lot of wacky and weird stuff to Smash, especially if they mix in Portal.

Unless Smash comes to PC (and Steam) I don't think this is ever happening.

 

[fogbadge]

Third Person Shooter it still counts.

first person and third person are quite different, it really shouldn’t count

 

[Wonder Smash]

Doom Slayer has many problems. I don't think he's terribly likely and there's much better FPS reps to add.

With how iconic DOOM is and how significantly important it is to video games (something Sakurai has mentioned twice), as well as its comeback with two solid games and a Doom Slayer mii costume already in Smash, no he doesn't have "many problems". He's very likely and there's really no arguing that. You can't go wrong with Doom Slayer as a FPS rep when it was his series that popularized the genre in the first place.

I think Skyrim guy would make a lot of sense too opposed to Doom guy.

He doesn't, though. There's really no reason for why Doom Slayer doesn't make just as much sense (if not more so) than Dragonborne.

Only people who are biased against Doom Slayer would say something like that.

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

Or like...Cloud before Hero?

Except that isn't the same thing. Square Enix and Nintendo had disagreements on how Hero should work, such as SE's restrictions on how different Heroes could, or rather, couldn't interact with each other. This likely made Cloud far easier to negotiate at first, thus far more reasonable.

Doom Slayer has no such restrictions by his owner, so there is no valid reason to choose any third party FPS character over him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Permission to joke about the Smash Effect being real?

 

[Lionfranky]

I see talk of FPS reps and yet I don't see any mention of Half-Life or Team Fortress 2. Like I remember The Heavy being a popular subject in Smash speculation in terms of FPS reps.
And I'm positive Gordon Freeman could rival Doomslayer and Master Chief in iconic FPS reps. Heck, even Sakurai talked about Half-Life and how "Nintendo" it felt. And Gordon Freeman can certainly bring a lot of wacky and weird stuff to Smash, especially if they mix in Portal.

I think TF2 is more of bandwagon pick and echo chamber. This effect stemmed mostly from r/tf2. At least, you see how so many gaming journalists flock on Master Chief in Smash before Sora's reveal. Valve just announced Portal Switch port. That's start. But, Valve has to sit back before Doom and Halo.

Except that isn't the same thing. Square Enix and Nintendo had disagreements on how Hero should work, such as SE's restrictions on how different Heroes could, or rather, couldn't interact with each other. This likely made Cloud far easier to negotiate at first, thus far more reasonable.

Doom Slayer has no such restrictions by his owner, so there is no valid reason to choose any third party FPS character over him.

Did that discussion happen during Smash 4 development?

 

[JOJONumber691]

first person and third person are quite different, it really shouldn’t count

What I’m thinking of here is a Hero Shooter that has you play as a character and shoot stuff with them, with a Multiplayer option. This sums up both Metroid Prime and Splatoon regardless of Camera Perspective so I’m counting Inkling as a Character from this Genre.

 

[RileyXY1]

With how iconic DOOM is and how significantly important it is to video games (something Sakurai has mentioned twice), as well as its comeback with two solid games and a Doom Slayer mii costume already in Smash, no he doesn't have "many problems". He's very likely and there's really no arguing that. You can't go wrong with Doom Slayer as a FPS rep when it was his series that popularized the genre in the first place.



He doesn't, though. There's really no reason for why Doom Slayer doesn't make just as much sense (if not more so) than Dragonborne.

Only people who are biased against Doom Slayer would say something like that.

Doomguy doesn't really make any sense when Master Chief is right there who is far more iconic. He wouldn't offer much that Master Chief already brings to the table.

 

[fogbadge]

What I’m thinking of here is a Hero Shooter that has you play as a character and shoot stuff with them, with a Multiplayer option. This sums up both Metroid Prime and Splatoon regardless of Camera Perspective so I’m counting Inkling as a Character from this Genre.

ok but you weren’t the one who was calling it an FPS so what you’re thinking of doesn’t count. One way or the other what they said was fps which splatoon is not

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

Doomguy doesn't really make any sense when Master Chief is right there who is far more iconic. He wouldn't offer much that Master Chief already brings to the table.

Tell that to the Mii Costumes. Fact is, Master Chief is not more iconic than Doom Slayer.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think Doomguy makes sense, but my issue isn't that. Honestly Microsoft at this point is becoming like Capcom for smash in that the issue is that there are so many good picks. The Activision Blizzard buyout exasperated this.

Right of the bat, I feel like the elephant in the room for Microsoft discussion is Master Chief. What was at one point such a ridiculous decision that the thread for it was locked for trolling in Smash 4 is now a legitimate possibility. I can easily see Microsoft wanting their golden boy in Smash, especially given the fact there is some noteworthy fan demand for Chief (although tbf many of these picks have sizable traction in requests). Crash is another pick that blew up in terms of requests for Smash, and I would argue he is also one of the frontrunners for Microsoft should they be involved in the next smash (As an aside, even if you go liberal as hell with the cuts I think Microsoft is staying on board. Cutting Minecraft just would feel surreal and Banjo was such a huge fan request). You got Dragonborn who also is directly competing with Doomguy who most people lump in with Doomguy the most. Outside of them, you also have stuff like Tracer, Diablo, a Warcraft rep, Spyro, you name it. Microsoft is an IP juggernaut, there are just so many picks you can go with for Microsoft and that does hurt Doomguy a little bit.

Tell that to the Mii Costumes. Fact is, Master Chief is not more iconic than Doom Slayer.

Yes, because the franchise that sold 81 million units, serves as Xbox's gaming mascot, and as a launch title secured the foundation of what Xbox is known for is not iconic because it did not get a Mii Costume. You can want Doomslayer in. Heck, I would love for him to be in. But don't say just outright false things like this and state them as fact, it weakens your argument and makes you and Doom Slayer fans look bad.

 

[Reksew_Trebla]

Yes, because the franchise that sold 81 million units, serves as Xbox's gaming mascot, and as a launch title secured the foundation of what Xbox is known for is not iconic because it did not get a Mii Costume. You can want Doomslayer in. Heck, I would love for him to be in. But don't say just outright false things like this and state them as fact, it weakens your argument and makes you and Doom Slayer fans look bad.

I never said it wasn't iconic. I said Doom Slayer is more iconic, which is true. So you are the one saying outright false things, by putting words in my mouth.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Doomguy doesn't really make any sense when Master Chief is right there who is far more iconic. He wouldn't offer much that Master Chief already brings to the table.

Doom Slayer makes a lot of sense when he has his series on Nintendo consoles and already a Mii costume, whereas Master Chief doesn't have either. Also, Master Chief is not "far more" iconic either. With all the things DOOM has done, you can't take that away from the character or his series.

Outside of them, you also have stuff like Tracer, Diablo, a Warcraft rep, Spyro, you name it. Microsoft is an IP juggernaut, there are just so many picks you can go with for Microsoft and that does hurt Doomguy a little bit.

Not with Doom Slayer already being a Mii costume and having two hit games in recent years, along with his historical impact.

Yes, because the franchise that sold 81 million units, serves as Xbox's gaming mascot, and as a launch title secured the foundation of what Xbox is known for is not iconic because it did not get a Mii Costume.

What the heck? Nobody said that!

 

[fogbadge]

Since when did being more iconic make you more likely to get into smash?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Since when did being more iconic make you more likely to get into smash?

That"s like saying that the Tetris block is more viable for being added, rather than an actual character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Except that isn't the same thing. Square Enix and Nintendo had disagreements on how Hero should work, such as SE's restrictions on how different Heroes could, or rather, couldn't interact with each other. This likely made Cloud far easier to negotiate at first, thus far more reasonable.

So what?

It doesn't change the fact that two characters, owned by the same company, they added the more popular character before adding the "father of the genre". Just like Master Chief vs. Doom Slayer.

And that's not even counting how many NON-SquareEnix JRPG reps got in before Hero.

Tell that to the Mii Costumes. Fact is, Master Chief is not more iconic than Doom Slayer.

That's dumb.

Is Nakoruru more iconic than Chun Li because she has a Mii and Chun Li doesn't? Is Goemon more iconic than Strider? Is Gil more iconic than...any character people have actually heard of?

I said Doom Slayer is more iconic, which is true.

He's not. By, like, a wide margin.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I know I said I wouldn't post again until later in the evening but I needed to cash in on this discussion real quick

Remember what happened the last time people argued over which of Microsoft's characters "deserved" to get in more?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Unless Smash comes to PC (and Steam) I don't think this is ever happening.

I certainly hope so, I can't picture a FPS character to be either fun, or anything but campy in Smash, and I don't necessarily feel the need of representatives of this genre, purely cause it feels way too off Smash and Nintendo's general public and style.

Note how most 3rd party characters are mostly from fighting games, RPGs or platformers for example, there's a clear reason for that.

 

[osby]

I certainly hope so, I can't picture a FPS character to be either fun, or anything but campy in Smash,

They'd feel right at home with Banjo, then.

and I don't necessarily feel the need of representatives of this genre, purely cause it feels way too off Smash and Nintendo's general public and style.

Note how most 3rd party characters are mostly from fighting games, RPGs or platformers for example, there's a clear reason for that.

I don't think we need an FPS representative either but saying that it's too far from Nintendo is forcing it.

Animal Crossing and Doom are practically friendly fandoms at this point and it's not like we don't have characters that don't "fit to Smash" like Snake or Bayo already.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I certainly hope so, I can't picture a FPS character to be either fun, or anything but campy in Smash, and I don't necessarily feel the need of representatives of this genre, purely cause it feels way too off Smash and Nintendo's general public and style.

It's more of a combination of you not being all that familiar with FPS characters and seemingly not having a creative mindset. If you study up on the games more, you would see characters like Doom Slayer would be extremely easy to implement in Smash. Heck, the attacks that the Mii gunner does are actually the same kind of attacks Doom Slayer does in his own series and even then, there are other more fitting ways for him to do them differently in Smash.

Note how most 3rd party characters are mostly from fighting games, RPGs or platformers for example, there's a clear reason for that.

Because heavily requested characters happen be from those genres. It not's because they come from those genres.

 

[fogbadge]

so did anyone else know that Banjo Tooie has an FPS mode? arguably theres already an FPS character in the game. there's even an area thats a multiplayer map taken from golden eye

 

[SPEN18]

I don't necessarily feel the need of representatives of this genre, purely cause it feels way too off Smash and Nintendo's general public and style

Yeah, no need to force-feed a genre if its options simply don't measure up to other possible picks. I wouldn't be against a hypothetical FPS rep if there were any that were actually significant to Nintendo, but I don't really see any right now.

Edit: I also agree that the kinds of "big-name, third party, M-rated, Western shooter reps" that people keeping clamoring for are bad fits for the style of Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

so did anyone else know that Banjo Tooie has an FPS mode? arguably theres already an FPS character in the game.

There's THREE ENTIRE FPS Metroid games!

 

[fogbadge]

There's THREE ENTIRE FPS Metroid games!

4, you forgot hunters

also why has the quote with what I said got someone else’s name on it

 

[Megadoomer]

4, you forgot hunters

Five if you count Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

...Not that anyone would count Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

 

[fogbadge]

Five if you count Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

...Not that anyone would count Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

or indeed remember it

 

[Ivander]

Five if you count Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

...Not that anyone would count Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

I mean, I think the Federation Force Soldier look would've worked good for a Mii Gunner costume. Even if that's not saying much considering there are a whole lot of concepts/characters that would work good as Mii Costumes.