Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Idon]

I mean if the switch 2 does end up having the feature of using the joycons as a mouse would it be actually useful or just a gimmick?

Although i don't know how Nintendo would actually make a game using joycons as a mouse and it sounds very awkward to control (buttons on it's side and all that, unless you're supposed to hold the other joycon straight like a Wiimote + Nunchuck setup or something?) , much less adding the feature to an already existing game like smash.

I could see it as useful depending on the genre of game. I for one, hate shooters that don't give me the granular aim of the mouse, which is why I never really got into Splatoon, even despite there being a motion control option that can approximate that feel. Additionally, this might be a useful method of interpreting touchscreen games on the DS/3DS where there were no additional buttons to use while operating the stylus anyways.

 

[ninjahmos]

For ports of mouse-centric PC games, I'd imagine the most optimal way to play them would be in tabletop mode, with only one Joy-Con corresponding to your dominant hand detached and in mouse mode, while your second hand is used for the touchscreen to access things you'd use hotkeys for on a PC.

Real-time strategy games are constantly being used as an example of a genre that can benefit from this, so using Starcraft II's HUD for example:
View attachment 397972
See all those buttons that have letters/numbers showing what key you can press to use them? You'd be using your free hand to press them while your mouse hand is used for selecting units and telling them where to go. (hopefully in this hypothetical SCII port that utilizes the touch screen+mouse joycons, they'd let you move the command card on the right to be next to the radar or vice-versa for lefties)

Civilization with Mouse-Con controls (assuming the Switch 2 does have that) sounds pretty cool.

 

[dream1ng]

I mean if the switch 2 does end up having the feature of using the joycons as a mouse would it be actually useful or just a gimmick?

Although i don't know how Nintendo would actually make a game using joycons as a mouse and it sounds very awkward to control (buttons on it's side and all that, unless you're supposed to hold the other joycon straight like a Wiimote + Nunchuck setup or something?) , much less adding the feature to an already existing game like smash.

Get ready to switch it up with the Nintendo Switch 2™ Piece of Flat Plastic™ for the optimal experience of our new Nintendo Joy-Con Pro™'s Mouse Mode™! Get them in thirty-seven different variants (four of which will be readily available) featuring all your favorite Nintendo™ franchises*!

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*Assuming your favorite franchises are Super Mario™, The Legend of Zelda™, Animal Crossing™, or Splatoon™

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Got reminded earlier today on Twitter about a patent Nintendo filed in 2022 for an attachable second screen to make the switch more like a DS style system, and now I'm wondering if that'll be released as an accessory or something considering the Switch 2 has a USB-C port on top of it now too.

Whatever this thing was about lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’ve actually been thinking of something; you guys remember Luke from Street Fighter? He was the last DLC character in Street Fighter V before making his proper debut in Street Fighter VI, where he was meant to debut originally.

I guess what I’m saying is, it would be novel if Ultimate got one last DLC newcomer who was backported from the next Smash game as a teaser for the next Smash game.

I don't think that Luke was backported so much as he was focus tested with Street Fighter V's audience so that he could do well as a "main" character in Street Fighter 6. Super Smash Bros. wouldn't particularly need anything like that, especially since most characters don't really change from game to game.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Yall think Donkey Kong will change appearance to better match his new cartoonish design for the next game?

Not sure since not all redesigns even if its before a game is planned is not always used.

A notable example is Villager whose design in Ultimate is still the design from Wild World/City Folk rather then New Leaf which gives a contrast to Isabelle. Also the boxing ring title isn’t accurate for that reason (Mayor of Smashville).

 

[ninjahmos]

You know what I'm hoping the Switch 2 will have?

A remake of Eternal Darkness co-developed by Nintendo and Capcom, with Denis Dyack as one of the lead producers (and writers).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not sure since not all redesigns even if its before a game is planned is not always used.

A notable example is Villager whose design in Ultimate is still the design from Wild World/City Folk rather then New Leaf which gives a contrast to Isabelle. Also the boxing ring title isn’t accurate for that reason (Mayor of Smashville).

Villager represents every single Animal Crossing game anyway. It's the general protagonist. So it doesn't really matter what the design is. This isn't like Hero or any version of Link who are geared towards a very specific one. The normal playable Villager doesn't really have any big changes throughout Animal Crossing's history and keeps the overall same design. Only the proportions were changed inbetween games(also was given more clothing/hairstyle options, but still) anyway. Which is something that Smash didn't change(since it's an Avatar-type character, not an extremely specific character, I.E. Link, who only used to be a general take on various games. It's not till Twilight Princess and Wind Waker they started to really change his designs, which is also why multiple Links makes sense. They really are quite different in proportions. Though sadly alternate skills aren't really used...).

Anyway, Isabelle wasn't really done as a contrast either. She simply couldn't be an Echo in that case, and her personality already warranted some changes to make her feel more accurate(that said, it might not have been nearly as much beyond aesthetics and some new moves if she was able to be an Echo. Being only possible as a regular clone type gave a lot more leeway to changes, since she's modified after Villager's moveset, and doesn't have anything resembling what an Echo has to deal with. While it's true Sakurai gave us little information about Echoes, them having their own labels does mean he had a specific ruleset set for them. We at least know their bodyshapes need to be nearly the same, and it's a decent guess their stats are barely changed, Weight being the most notable example. There could be a lot more we don't know of, so yes, it was possible Isabelle would've been less interesting if an Echo role was possible under the particular rules set by Sakurai. I'm thankful she has her awesome energy, though~).

Oh, right, I forgot; Villager was considered based upon his previous portrayals back in Brawl well before New Leaf was even in development. There's a pretty good chance he already had an ideal design to go with, just not the right way to implement it till For. Thus, yeah, it had no real chance of being based upon New Leaf anyway. Besides, as you said, it was way too late being released, we also have to take into account where Sakurai can take animations from, and most of them are from the previous games he can retool at best, which wouldn't work with New Leaf's proportions(and it's not a game that's already released, which would give him more to work with anyway. Or nearly complete). Villager was considered as a general AC character pretty early on, after all. You have way more references in already released games. It's a waste of time to try and go for the new game look if it doesn't actually help at all. Work smarter, not harder. Timing wouldn't have really helped, since he can only retool animations that actually combine well. The second Villager got a new proportions, the animations were clearly going to be way harder. You get one or the other at that point. This is also why Isabelle worked out great. She is the "new Villager" of sorts, having the new proportions and alternate plausible skills(including Fishing). Changing Villager requires a massive change in animations as I pointed out earlier, so it is really not a logical move on the table. This is not comparable to Samus, who is the same bodyshape, Ganondorf, who got more changes than he should've, sure, but still retains the same core moveset throughout the franchise, or Link, who still plays clearly similarly(unlike Young Link and Toon Link, who play quite differently, and how Toon Link is a perfect example of why you can't change proportions and keep the same moveset design. Doesn't work that way).

 

[dream1ng]

You know what I'm hoping the Switch 2 will have?

A remake of Eternal Darkness co-developed by Nintendo and Capcom, with Denis Dyack as one of the lead producers (and writers).

Fwiw the Switch 2 will at least probably be the first time Eternal Darkness gets re-released once Gamecube comes to NSO.

 

[P4ST4N4G4]

You know what I'm hoping the Switch 2 will have?

A remake of Eternal Darkness co-developed by Nintendo and Capcom, with Denis Dyack as one of the lead producers (and writers).

That would be pretty cool, but i believe Silicon Knights (the ones who developed it) closed down and it doesn't seem like Nintendo likes to do any remakes or ports unless a third party asks them to do it themselves.

Thought it would be cool to get a remake or a sequel, we could even get a smash stage that has all those spooky sanity effects as hazards!

For ports of mouse-centric PC games, I'd imagine the most optimal way to play them would be in tabletop mode, with only one Joy-Con corresponding to your dominant hand detached and in mouse mode, while your second hand is used for the touchscreen to access things you'd use hotkeys for on a PC.

Real-time strategy games are constantly being used as an example of a genre that can benefit from this, so using Starcraft II's HUD for example:
View attachment 397972
See all those buttons that have letters/numbers showing what key you can press to use them? You'd be using your free hand to press them while your mouse hand is used for selecting units and telling them where to go. (hopefully in this hypothetical SCII port that utilizes the touch screen+mouse joycons, they'd let you move the command card on the right to be next to the radar or vice-versa for lefties)

Your explanation makes sense for StarCraft II, a lot of sense actually. But what about playing on tv? Or an FPS game.
If you where playing and had to use the touchscreen at the same time you would probably be blocking vital information on the screen while trying to select something (maybe, I don't know if there would be a way to do it without blocking screen info with your fingers).

I believe that if Nintendo doesn't want to go the "Nunchuck" route I mentioned earlier they would offer something like a keyboard or another peripheral to control your character that plugs into the new upper USB-C port.

Although your idea for controlling StarCraft is quite cool and i could imagine it being an alternative control scheme for RTS games.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

That would be pretty cool, but i believe Silicon Knights (the ones who developed it) closed down and it doesn't seem like Nintendo likes to do any remakes or ports unless a third party asks them to do it themselves.

Thought it would be cool to get a remake or a sequel, we could even get a smash stage that has all those spooky sanity effects as hazards!

I mean, Nintendo owns the rights to Eternal Darkness, which is why Alexandra Roivas was a Spirit in Ultimate, so if they made a team for it, they could just make one or bring it to NSO if Switch 2 does Gamecube stuff lol

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I mean if the switch 2 does end up having the feature of using the joycons as a mouse would it be actually useful or just a gimmick?

Although i don't know how Nintendo would actually make a game using joycons as a mouse and it sounds very awkward to control (buttons on it's side and all that, unless you're supposed to hold the other joycon straight like a Wiimote + Nunchuck setup or something?) , much less adding the feature to an already existing game like smash.

How about the Stage Builder?
There's also the next Super Mario Maker.

 

[Geno Boost]

A lot of characters I'd really like are from new genres too. Maybe by proxy, I'm just a bit unlucky with some of the genres I enjoy and where Smash's priorities have lain, but I think there's probably something to be said about the excitement interpreting some of those new ideas into Smash would bring.

Puzzle, FPS, Rhythm, SHMUP, Horror, Visual Novel... honestly, all have pretty evocative and realizable potential if you think about it for even just a minute.

Tons of untapped potential. Obviously the individual characters should carry themselves over simply being a vessel for genre, but I think someone like Arle or Master Chief shines a lot more on the front that there really is nobody else like them in the game right now. That kind of freshness is the main thing I'm looking for going into next game.

man i want MMO character in smash
gimme Club Penguin in smash Disney

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

I'll bite.

Why do you want micro transactions?

Just wanted to stir some people up. I forget sarcasm doesn't translate on the internet

 

[Dinoman96]

Eternal Darkness has that problem in that even though Nintendo owns it, I don't think there's any producer in there that actually cares to get another one made.

Tis' quite literally the reason we got Famicom Detective Club back after all these years, because Yoshio Sakamoto lobbied for it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Villager represents every single Animal Crossing game anyway. It's the general protagonist. So it doesn't really matter what the design is. This isn't like Hero or any version of Link who are geared towards a very specific one. The normal playable Villager doesn't really have any big changes throughout Animal Crossing's history and keeps the overall same design. Only the proportions were changed inbetween games(also was given more clothing/hairstyle options, but still) anyway. Which is something that Smash didn't change(since it's an Avatar-type character, not an extremely specific character, I.E. Link, who only used to be a general take on various games. It's not till Twilight Princess and Wind Waker they started to really change his designs, which is also why multiple Links makes sense. They really are quite different in proportions. Though sadly alternate skills aren't really used...).

I think it's a noteworthy thing because characters tend to use their most current design, and Villager really doesn't. The reason for this is probably because this is how they looked in 3/4 Animal Crossing games at the time, and because the redesign happened in 2012, at which point SSB4's design was already underway, and Villager was one of the first characters brought to a showable state.

I wouldn't be surprised if Villager's design gets updated in the next game...though I also wouldn't be surprised if they stay the same either.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, what do you all want from the next Smash Bros.?

-A strong engine for offensive combos. Ultimate almost got it right, just reward offensive play but make grabs not useless.
-Better online for sure.
-More focus on revamping certain move sets from characters who suffer from being added early on and not having their full tools accessible therefore. Samus, Mewtwo, Mario, Kirby, Ganondorf, DK, these are some characters that come to mind.
-Something like Smash Run returning. Or a cross between that and Melee Adventure Mode.
-Newcomers: Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Funky Kong.
-I want Echo Fighters to stay and be expanded upon. Add in more, but try to make them more unique like the Melee clones. Semi clones are also acceptable.
-Sonic and Steve being nerfed significantly.
-Tournament Mode, and a online version of it
-Custom Moves returning and be expanded upon, hopefully being made competitively viable.
-Hopefully most Nintendo owned big named characters who are also well known and established outside of Smash returning. Prioritise the big names over the obscure ones being grandfathered in, and if these characters aren't popular in Smash, revamp them to be flashy.
-Heavyweights being more viable. Approach them like Melee DK , or Smash 4 DK and Bowser.
-Add a defence stat mechanism. Basically Tough Guy for all the heavies. Make them receive less damage to, as heavies already soak up more damage due to being combo food anyway.
-Return of wave dashing and automatic lag cancel of aerials.
-Return of the parry mechanic and allowing a counter attack to be preformed afterwards

 

[Will]

-Return of the parry mechanic and allowing a counter attack to be preformed afterwards

You… you can? Are you asking for more advantage frames?

 

[DarthEnderX]

The Wii launched with Wii Sports
The Wii U launched with Nintendo Land
The Switch launched with 1-2 Switch

What kind of gimmicky, goofy launch title do you think the Switch 2 will have?

3-4 Switch

We had HD Rumble, what’s next? 4K Rumble?

We're still 15 years away from Nintendo having 4k anything.

I’ve actually been thinking of something; you guys remember Luke from Street Fighter? He was the last DLC character in Street Fighter V before making his proper debut in Street Fighter VI, where he was meant to debut originally.

I guess what I’m saying is, it would be novel if Ultimate got one last DLC newcomer who was backported from the next Smash game as a teaser for the next Smash game.

Luke didn't just come out as a single DLC character years after SF5 ended though. He was part of an entire season of DLC.

If Nintendo dropped a sudden Fighters Pass 3, I wouldn't complain, but since they'd all be newcomers, you wouldn't get that "This is the future of Smash" effect that Luke had.

Both Mario Party and Warioware are gonna do some crazy stuff with the mouse, just watch.

Oh god...I just realized, we're finally gonna get StarFox Zero ported off the Wii U, and they're just gonna replace the *****y touch controls with *****y mouse controls...

-Better online for sure.
-More focus on revamping certain move sets from characters who suffer from being added early on and not having their full tools accessible therefore. Samus, Mewtwo, Mario, Kirby, Ganondorf, DK, these are some characters that come to mind.
-Something like Smash Run returning. Or a cross between that and Melee Adventure Mode.
-I want Echo Fighters to stay and be expanded upon. Add in more, but try to make them more unique like the Melee clones.

-Custom Moves returning and be expanded upon, hopefully being made competitively viable.
-Return of wave dashing

 

[Diddy Kong]

You… you can? Are you asking for more advantage frames?

Yes! That's what I meant. Also, quicker jabs and F Tilts to really exploit this further.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think it's a noteworthy thing because characters tend to use their most current design, and Villager really doesn't. The reason for this is probably because this is how they looked in 3/4 Animal Crossing games at the time, and because the redesign happened in 2012, at which point SSB4's design was already underway, and Villager was one of the first characters brought to a showable state.

I wouldn't be surprised if Villager's design gets updated in the next game...though I also wouldn't be surprised if they stay the same either.

Nah, it's just extra work for no real benefit. The design is only barely different. It was never really plausible to spend that much time in the first place on something that is a minor change in the grand scheme of things. There's no reason to actually update it as it works the same way as is. Not everything needs to be changed since it's purely for the "sake of it".

Besides that, other characters who do get it have actual significant differences in designs that justify these changes. Sometimes also with new skills or pieces that make sense to do the extra work(like Link's changes aren't just a quick costume difference). Another is that it's still changing the character's model too much to make this work, which requires extra programming to account for the differences in bodyshapes. Which is why it never happened moreso in Ultimate(too much work for zero benefit). Isabelle is pretty much what a "change in Villager's design" would be at best, which makes it way better of a use of resources.

There's nothing to change without altering the core gameplay and tons of animations. Which is why it has no chance of seriously happening. The only thing Villager needs is the usual costume changes based upon the latest game(s) and any kind of bug fixes/balancing factors at best. Nothing that requires Sakurai to rewrite all the proportions. Last time we had a similar proportional change... we got Toon Link instead of Young Link. Not even Ganondorf, who got quite a change in Brawl, was given a body with different proportions. He was just changed way too much(namely the pointless slowness added, which hurt him massively. Though having a bugged attack didn't help either).

 

[Hypercat-Z]

The Wii launched with Wii Sports
The Wii U launched with Nintendo Land
The Switch launched with 1-2 Switch

What kind of gimmicky, goofy launch title do you think the Switch 2 will have?

Probably a game that features the mouse features, like a game where the players communicate between mousedrawn pictures in the speechbubble of their character, some sort of Pictionary with extra steps.
Example: the (ramdomly selected) chief player in each team receives the instructions of an object to retrive in the map, and has one minute to drawn it to their teammates, who then have five minutes to find it and give it to the chief. Once a player think they have found the right thing they'll send a signal to the chief, so the two of them can meet as fast as possible. Not only the first team to collect their objective wins but the first player to give the correct object to their chief receives a bonus.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

So, what do you all want from the next Smash Bros.?

EDIT: We have now reached 1900 pages! Only 100 more until we reach 2000 pages!

Well, I would be lying if I said I didn't kind of want a Subspace Emissary 2. But a solid Adventure Mode would be good. Honestly, I actually did enjoy World of Light for the most part, but I would have wanted some more variety. Maybe a few side-scrolling sections like in Melee adventure mode and SSU interspersed with it.
Bring back Rayquaza and have it mega evolve
Put the soundtrack on the Nintendo Music app expeditiously.

 

[Megadoomer]

Probably a game that features the mouse features, like a game where the players communicate between mousedrawn pictures in the speechbubble of their character, some sort of Pictionary with extra steps.
Example: the (ramdomly selected) chief player in each team receives the instructions of an object to retrive in the map, and has one minute to drawn it to their teammates, who then have five minutes to find it and give it to the chief. Once a player think they have found the right thing they'll send a signal to the chief, so the two of them can meet as fast as possible. Not only the first team to collect their objective wins but the first player to give the correct object to their chief receives a bonus.

Finally, it's time for this hidden gem to make its long overdue comeback:

 

[MBRedboy31]

IMO, “tall” New Leaf/New Horizons Villager just wouldn’t fit the current moveset that well.
Imagine doing neutral airs as Tall Villager, for example. Their extra height might also make trying to zone with the forward air and back air slingshot a bit awkward, as it’d become very hard to hit shorter characters with it.
Of course, it’s a new game and they could just more heavily redesign their moveset, but IDK if they’d want to.

 

[Stratos]

I know I've written this many times, but R.O.B. should be given a stage from Gyromite in the next Super Smash Bros. 6, will they do it this time?

 

[P4ST4N4G4]

I know I've written this many times, but R.O.B. should be given a stage from Gyromite in the next Super Smash Bros. 6, will they do it this time?

Honestly, if they haven't done it already i doubt they will. Especially since we don't even know if the next smash game will be brand new from scratch or an enhanced port of Ultimate...

 

[Will]

I know I've written this many times, but R.O.B. should be given a stage from Gyromite in the next Super Smash Bros. 6, will they do it this time?

I think the main problem with Gyromite is that you’re trapped in this lab. There’s nowhere for a blast zone to be, unless we make these walls destroy able like like on

 

[Gorgonzales]

I think the main problem with Gyromite is that you’re trapped in this lab. There’s nowhere for a blast zone to be, unless we make these walls destroy able like like on

You say this like the developers aren't allowed to take liberties with how they translate a stage from its home series to Smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

ROB gets a real life meta stage which takes place on 1985/86 American store shelves where fighters can throw NES consoles and NES games at each other.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I was thinking a Gyromite stage would have a massive R.O.B. in the background, and you’d be able to watch it move the gyros around to control the movable pillars in the stage. I wouldn’t put it past Professor Hector to construct a giant R.O.B. mecha.

Or maybe the giant R.O.B. wouldn’t actually exist in the game world, and it’d be a simulated “IRL” one that you can see reflected off of the glass of the TV or Switch screen. It’d be an interesting way to convey R.O.B.’s nature as an IRL accessory.

 

[Stratos]

They could model the stage from Gyromite so that there are no beams to prevent the opponent from being thrown off the stage. An example is the Pac-Maze stage which is based on the first Pac-Man game.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

They could model the stage from Gyromite so that there are no beams to prevent the opponent from being thrown off the stage. An example is the Pac-Maze stage which is based on the first Pac-Man game.
View attachment 398015

Or they could make walls be in a Gyromite stage and make them work like Terry’s Stage, if you know what I mean.

 

[Cyberfire]

I know I've written this many times, but R.O.B. should be given a stage from Gyromite in the next Super Smash Bros. 6, will they do it this time?

If he didn't get one in Brawl, I doubt it's happening ever.

Shame because the stage has just as much potential as Wrecking Crew/Mario Bros/Balloon Fight.

 

[Stratos]

However, if they don't put the stage from Gyromite in Super Smash Bros. 6, I say it and write it, I will raise the white flag or my hands up and I say "I surrender".

 

[Louie G.]

At this point, I'm more concerned about ROB returning at all.

I'd like to believe he would, but I think if push came to shove on first party series representation... the fact that ROB hasn't had a stage to call his own after all this time doesn't bode especially well for him. Where even a series like Duck Hunt could potentially expand and offer content based on other light gun games, in Smash's perspective ROB has pretty much exhausted any amount of content he could have reasonably provided already.

Not saying I agree with that, because I think there are ways to handle a Gyromite or Stack-Up stage, but they've had quite a long time to come up with one by now and haven't cracked the code (or even tried, I don't know).

 

[Will]

You say this like the developers aren't allowed to take liberties with how they translate a stage from its home series to Smash.

And yet there’s still no Gyromite stage in Smash. I rest my case.

They could model the stage from Gyromite so that there are no beams to prevent the opponent from being thrown off the stage. An example is the Pac-Maze stage which is based on the first Pac-Man game.
View attachment 398015

I miss this stage ngl, I do not want PACLAND.

 

[Kirbeh]

We're still 15 years away from Nintendo having 4k anything.

4K cease and desist letters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

If you where playing and had to use the touchscreen at the same time you would probably be blocking vital information on the screen while trying to select something (maybe, I don't know if there would be a way to do it without blocking screen info with your fingers).

Well like I said I would hope this hypothetical port has an alternative HUD for not having your left hand have to go all over the place and/or block vital information. Here's a crude mockup of what I hope for

I greatly increased the size of the control group buttons so they'd be easier to access on a touchscreen. Probably a bit too much, but I did say this was a crude mockup.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly, if they haven't done it already i doubt they will. Especially since we don't even know if the next smash game will be brand new from scratch or an enhanced port of Ultimate...

I mean I'm doubting a port because the Switch 2 is backwards compatible and Smash has never done ports (if there was ever a time to do it it would've been Smash 4 since the Wii U was a flop and they didn't even do it then).