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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Thegameandwatch

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and I want to know what the heck Toon Sheik was.
It could be Tetra but the fact that it’s specifically “Toon Sheik” in the game’s code means that it’s probably just a made up character that fits the artstyle.

It’s like how Brawl onwards Sheik is a made up version of the character based unused concept art. Not even sure if that design was actually planned for TP or made for Smash by the Zelda developers.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Gonna be honest. If we were to have a big reveal of the Switch 2 on Thursday, I think we would have heard news by now.
I mean wasn't the initial Switch reveal just drummed up like "Watch the Preview Trailer tomorrow morning!" (For the record that tweet was on October 19th 2016 at 8:30pm and the Switch's initial reveal was literally the next day almost not even 12 hours later lol) I'm trying to find if there was any like lead-up to just showing it like mention of a specific date ahead of time, but I can't find one and the Preview Trailer message has replies like "WAIT THEY'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT NX???" which feels very similar to current sentiment lmao

So if it is this week, they could just suddenly post tomorrow or Thursday like "Get ready to see the Nintendo Switch successor with a Preview Trailer at 7am PT/10am ET!" lol
 
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Swamp Sensei

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I mean wasn't the initial Switch reveal just drummed up like "Watch the Preview Trailer tomorrow morning!" (For the record that tweet was on October 19th 2016 at 8:30pm and the Switch's initial reveal was literally the next day almost not even 12 hours later lol) I'm trying to find if there was any like lead-up to just showing it like mention of a specific date ahead of time, but I can't find one and the Preview Trailer message has replies like "WAIT THEY'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT NX???" which feels very similar to current sentiment lmao

So if it is this week, they could just suddenly post tomorrow or Thursday like "Get ready to see the Nintendo Switch successor with a Preview Trailer at 7am PT/10am ET!" lol
The first tweet about the Switch's announcement happened the night before the reveal itself.

View attachment 397740
I stand corrected.

Time to hype responsibly.
 

Perkilator

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Literally Nate’s entire reputation is on the line with the rumor about the Switch 2 being revealed on the 16th, even with other sources supporting his claims. If the 16th comes and goes without anything more than DKCR HD, then that’s it for him.
 

Megadoomer

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The last conversation got me thinking...

Throwing away any thoughts of likeliness aside..

  • How much experience do you have with the Bayonetta franchise?
  • How do you like Bayonetta as a character outside of Smash?
  • How do you like Bayonetta as a character in Smash?
  • How much do you think Bayonetta adds to Smash?
  • What do you think of the Bayonetta franchise (not the character) content in Smash?
  • Would you be sad to see her go?
  • played the three main games and a bit of Cereza and the Lost Demon; Bayonetta 2 was one of the reasons why I got a Wii U
  • she's an entertaining character; I wasn't a fan of how she was handled in Bayonetta 3 for a variety of reasons, but she's entertaining in the first two games
  • much like with Banjo and Kazooie, Bayonetta was a character that I would have liked to see in Smash but I assumed that she likely wouldn't make it in, so her reveal was a huge surprise and something that I still recall fondly. Gameplay wise, they did a great job with capturing what makes the Bayonetta games so fun to play
  • she's got a unique playstyle that shows how well 3D action games translate to Smash. I'd love to see the Smash team add more characters like that - Dante, 2B, Amaterasu, Ryu Hayabusa...
  • I think how the franchise is represented is fine; I would have liked to see a boss from the Bayonetta games, or Jeanne as an echo fighter, or the song You May Call Me Father in Ultimate, but it is what it is.
  • I'd be sad. I'd understand it, since my expectation for the next Smash is that the roster will have a lot more cuts than what past Smash games had, and the future of the series seems to be in question (a lot of the series' mainstays have left Platinum, her Japanese voice actor passed away, Bayonetta 3 ended on a note that doesn't seem to bode well for future games...), but Bayonetta making it into Smash at all felt like a huge achievement, and I like how Smash as a whole helps to introduce people to games that they might not have otherwise played.
 
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Laniv

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Reminds me of how literally no one talked about Inteleon despite being basically James Bond.

Would it have been possible that the spy angle would've won Sakurai over the other starters?
Oh, that's an easy one. Sakurai's saving the spy concept for when he adds that other spy-themed anthropomorphic lizard:

1736912363381.png
 

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Thegameandwatch

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Is there any retro character that could potentially be in Smash 6 because every game since Melee has one with Ultimate being an exception if Simon doesn’t count.

Examples are ones from the NES or SNES that never have a game afterwards.
 
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Laniv

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Is there any retro character that could potentially be in Smash 6 because every game since Melee has one with Ultimate being an exception if Simon doesn’t count.

Examples are ones from the NES or SNES that never have a game afterwards.
Takamaru is the first one that comes to mind. After that it could be Excitebiker, Mach Rider, maybe Urban Champion or Balloon Fighter if they could scrounge up enough material for a moveset, Lip...

Do we count Game Boy games? Cause then we could have the Sablé Prince
 

Thegameandwatch

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Takamaru is the first one that comes to mind. After that it could be Excitebiker, Mach Rider, maybe Urban Champion or Balloon Fighter if they could scrounge up enough material for a moveset, Lip...

Do we count Game Boy games? Cause then we could have the Sablé Prince
The Game Boy would count since it’s the same era as the NES and SNES.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Is there any retro character that could potentially be in Smash 6 because every game since Melee has one with Ultimate being an exception if Simon doesn’t count.

Examples are ones from the NES or SNES that never have a game afterwards.
See, the thing about these retro characters is that they need to be surprises. The classic picks like Takamaru wouldn't really count.

However I can think of two retro characters that would be really cool and unexpected. Wave Racer from Wave Race and one character to represent the NES sports games.
 

Diddy Kong

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Man imagine the alternate universe where we had a good moveset for Sonic but at the expense of Toon Link.

...Man i dont know if i prefer that or not.
Personally I'd easily sacrifice Sonic for having Mewtwo back, and just throw in Dixie as well and maybe Roy.

Sonic would've been included in 4 anyway.
There's two things about this: The first is that the outcomes were more likely to be an asset reusey Sonic and Wolf, Jigglypuff, and Toon Link, or an asset reusey Sonic and that's it. If they didn't scramble as hard to get Sonic out the door, we'd probably have gotten some of the clone Forbidden 7 members like Roy or Doc in addition to Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf.

The second is that I think Sonic was always going to be a pixie character, and Spin Dash was always going to be designed the way it is currently whether or not Spin Charge would also have existed in the moveset, and both aforementioned moves are kind of the basis on everyone's problem with his kit/playstyle.
I kinda wish they just pushed backward a little more and at least finish Mewtwo. I also think its a shame Dixie was one of the Forbidden Seven and then never considered again as far as we know. I still see no good reason why Mewtwo shouldn't have been included in Brawl honestly. He was a majorly requested character for Melee after all, but his inclusion might have been poorly received due to being a relatively and almost comically weak character competitively. Nothing a few buffs wouldn't fix though.

I also think Wolf might've ended up being way more of a clone type of character if there where fewer resources available. Same for Toon Link, whom I suspect would've been Young Link 1.5 with a different look. Which also works of course for both, but the end result is better.

As for Sonic, yeah he was dysfunctional back in Brawl already, but not overpowered in any sort of way. Brawl Sonic was a tame character lacking a lot of kill power, and that was honestly the least toxic version of the character.
 

Ivander

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See, the thing about these retro characters is that they need to be surprises. The classic picks like Takamaru wouldn't really count.

However I can think of two retro characters that would be really cool and unexpected. Wave Racer from Wave Race and one character to represent the NES sports games.
I think Tamagon would certainly be up there in the surprise factor. I mean, aside from being from a game that wasn't originally released outside of Japan(until the NSO update), his game never came to the West because of all of the religious references, the name itself(Devil's World/Demon World) and the satanic panic at the time. A pretty unknown character, from a Japanese-only game that didn't come to the West originally due to religious references and a sketchy title, getting into Smash Bros as a playable character would certainly warrant the surprise. And would be quite a leap from the depths of obscurity for that character.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Is this supposed to mean, like, a nondescript character from the GB Wave Race? If Wave Race got a character, surely it would simply be Ryota Hayami from 64?
I imagined a character where the individual racers would be different alts.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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What do you consider a "large role" exactly, because the games listed were the newest Mario game, the newest Zelda games, the newest FE game (which usually gets something, mind), Pikmin 4 and Xenoblade 3 when both of their series have seen huge growth on the Switch...
I mean.
Mario Wonder is definitely old enough to get a stage, and what else can you do with it?
TotK can get a stage and even a character. It's been announced while Ultimate was still getting DLC, the Zelda team keeps Sakurai up to date between different projects (they even designed Sheik for Brawl while TP was in development) and it's official that TotK has been content complete for a whole year before release. They spent the last year just debugging.
Fire Emblem operates the same, so they probably can add Alear if they really want to, but honestly I don't think that all that many people would be disappointed if they sit this one out.
Pikmin 4 can get a stage. Oatchi becoming a character is a bit of a long shot regardless of everything.
Xenoblade 3 gets the short end of the stick, but... it happens. Mario 3d World, Tropical Freeze, every single Metroid Prime past the first one, a vast majority of post-SNES (!) Kirby games, most non-3d Zelda games, Xenoblade X, Radiant Dawn, Starfox Adventures, TTYD... I could go on, but anyways... they all got skipped over when it was their time. It just happens. And even then, they might have reserved a spot for the XB3 character like they do for Pokémon anyways.

I'm not saying that the game will specifically be delayed to account for this and that, but I am saying it would be a stark break in routine for next game to be missing the last few years of the Switch, where we'd still picking up previous generation slack through DLC and into the future of the series. I just don't think 2021 gives us that much wiggle room. It could happen, but I'd be disappointed in screwing with this comfortable pace the series has been at for almost 20 years. If it ain't broke, why force it? A roster decided in 2023 can see a 2026-2027 release and that would be perfectly in-line with Smash's usual shtick.
The last few years of the Switch wouldn't be totally missing. It's just that maybe they'd get 1-2 characters instead of 90% of the newcomers. Hardly a big deal. That was the case for Brawl too, and a vast majority of the Ultimate newcomers wasn't topical either (I see no reason why you wouldn't count the 3rd party characters) and it's the most successful Smash game ever.
Point being, they might feel like releasing Smash early is more important than it having a ton of characters from the late-era Switch games - which seems fair enough to me - and that's probably what happened if Sakurai's project from 2021 is indeed Smash... which it kinda has to be imo.
 

Stratos

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Surprise characters could be video game characters that are hardly known to anyone, such as Queen Azarel and Chief Zog from Warlocked for example.
1736938680985.png

1736938788430.png
Queen Azarel
1736938851950.png
Chief Zog
 
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Kirby Dragons

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Speaking of Excitebiker, and by extension, Mach Rider, how do you think they would handle their bikes? Because they couldn't be on them all the time. Would they just pull them out for certain moves?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Although one fact is that despite the 3DS being recent when Smash 4 was planned, there are actually more reps from the 3DS then on DS. (6 vs 1).

The only DS rep (Lucario) appeared in other stuff for promotional stuff so it’s not even fully accurate.
This honestly makes me wonder what kind of characters who debuted in the DS could be great additions, to be honest.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Speaking of Excitebiker, and by extension, Mach Rider, how do you think they would handle their bikes? Because they couldn't be on them all the time.
Why not? Aerials could be tricks, the bike could be perpendicular to the stage on grabs so their hands can actually reach, etc.

This kind of creative challenge might be exactly what makes the Excitebiker a good "surprise". Sure, we know about Excitebike but most people would probably rule it out because of that very question you pondered about, so seeing them as a fully realized character would still be surprising.

After all, looking at all the surprises...
  • The Game & Watch getting some kind of representation would've happened at some point given its importance in Nintendo's history but having what's essentially an OC with each attack representing a different game is a wild concept for Smash even to this day.
  • R.O.B. certainly wasn't the most obscure pick either with the cameos he's got across the years on top of being playable in Mario Kart DS but no one would've expected the peripheral to be playable in Smash. Even more so after being revealed as a single-player enemy.
  • Duck Hunt was far from an unknown yet is still the very character we got the term of "surprise" character from.
  • Piranha Plant is without a doubt the "surprise" character of Ultimate but no one in their right mind would even think of calling a common Mario enemy an "obscure" character.
So the "surprise" might not necessarily be unknown characters but moreso the idea that it could be someone we wouldn't expect to get a moveset.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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This honestly makes me wonder what kind of characters who debuted in the DS could be great additions, to be honest.
I remember for the longest time being confused as to why Layton wasnt in Smash in any capacity since his series was really popular on the DS.

Only to find out much later that Nintendo didnt actually make the games they just translated them.
 

Gengar84

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Is there any retro character that could potentially be in Smash 6 because every game since Melee has one with Ultimate being an exception if Simon doesn’t count.

Examples are ones from the NES or SNES that never have a game afterwards.
I think there still a ton of great options depending on what your definition of retro is. To me, a retro character is a character that debuted and hit their peak popularity many years ago (for me, that’s NES-N64 but that may vary person to person). The character can still get games today and be retro if those games are more niche compared to their former mainstream popularity. So I’d personally group the Battletoads, Bill Rizer, Zero, Fulgore and Magus as retro. Fulgore had the highest profile mainline appearance of these back in 2013 so he’s borderline. I think I’d still group Simon Belmont as retro since the CastleVania series is a lot more niche now when it does get a game but the anime helps keep it relevant. Isaac from Golden Sun could probably be considered retro at this point too.
 
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Oracle Link

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Wanted someone from TotK? Nope. It's a 2023 game so you'll get minor changes to Link at best.

Wanted something from Echoes of Widsom? Best you'll get from this 2024 game is Zelda's down B getting reskinned.
Which changes from those games do people actually want?
Everyone seems to want Classic Adult Link and Classic Adult Zelda!
The most demand ive seen for anything echoes of wisdom (characterwise) Is Toy Link getting a latger role in the next smash!
 

Pupp135

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I kinda wish they just pushed backward a little more and at least finish Mewtwo. I also think its a shame Dixie was one of the Forbidden Seven and then never considered again as far as we know. I still see no good reason why Mewtwo shouldn't have been included in Brawl honestly. He was a majorly requested character for Melee after all, but his inclusion might have been poorly received due to being a relatively and almost comically weak character competitively. Nothing a few buffs wouldn't fix though.

I also think Wolf might've ended up being way more of a clone type of character if there where fewer resources available. Same for Toon Link, whom I suspect would've been Young Link 1.5 with a different look. Which also works of course for both, but the end result is better.

As for Sonic, yeah he was dysfunctional back in Brawl already, but not overpowered in any sort of way. Brawl Sonic was a tame character lacking a lot of kill power, and that was honestly the least toxic version of the character.
I don’t know how accurate this is, but this is an interesting source regarding Mewtwo’s absence in Brawl. It seems that it’s Melee assets couldn’t really be reused in Brawl, so the fighter would have to be remade from scratch essentially.
 

Gengar84

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Which changes from those games do people actually want?
Everyone seems to want Classic Adult Link and Classic Adult Zelda!
The most demand ive seen for anything echoes of wisdom (characterwise) Is Toy Link getting a latger role in the next smash!
The only one I’ve seen get a lot of support is a revamped Ganondorf based on his appearance and boss fight from TotK. I’ve seen Rauru brought up a few times, and I’ve even mentioned him myself, but not many people seem to interested in the idea, especially in comparison to long time favorites like Skull Kid and Midna.
 
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Garteam

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Man, now I need some cheering up lol. I don’t like reminding myself that I probably won’t get any newcomers I’m excited for and will almost definitely lose several that I am. It definitely sucks having such wildly different tastes than most of the fandom. I’m happy deluding myself that I could actually be excited for the game but it’s going to be extremely difficult.

Most people are predicting a much smaller roster, so I’m probably losing most of my favorite veterans and don’t have much hope for my most wanted newcomers. Most people think Subspace Emissary will never happen again, which would be the one thing that could make me content with a smaller roster. I’m not entirely sure what the game could possibly do for me if both of these predictions are accurate. I guess I’ll keep speculating on the premise that we’ll have a big roster again, otherwise it’s kind of pointless for me to hope for anything.

The one silver lining is that Ultimate actually gave me a lot to be excited for with its roster. Even if I was disappointed with its modes, it was always fun to go back to and mess around with stuff. I could have never expected to get Sephiroth, Joker, K. Rool, and Ridley, which were all among my most wanted. Since the Switch 2 is confirmed backwards compatible, I can always just keep playing Ultimate. I just hope Switch 2 can be modded so I can keep enjoying the game through that.
If it makes you feel any better, this is largely how I feel, too. I really don't feel like there's any 50-60 character roster that is oriented towards late Switch reps and cuts most of the Third Party characters that could really make me excited for another Smash.

Maybe it's because I think that the Switch's first three years really define it, but most late-Switch reps that are pitched don't do much for me beyond a Gen 9 Pokemon. I'd also be bummed to see Ultimate's ambition scaled back to such a degree, although I can understand people's frustration at their preferred characters being lost in the shuffle of fan favourites and non-Nintendo characters. I just can't see a roster that can match Ultimate or even make up for what's lost from Ultimate being created under these conditions.

That's still a very subjective judgment and I don't mean to criticize anyone whose tastes trend more towards that direction, but I just wanted to share an alternative perspective.
 

Gengar84

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If it makes you feel any better, this is largely how I feel, too. I really don't feel like there's any 50-60 character roster that is oriented towards late Switch reps and cuts most of the Third Party characters that could really make me excited for another Smash.

Maybe it's because I think that the Switch's first three years really define it, but most late-Switch reps that are pitched don't do much for me beyond a Gen 9 Pokemon. I'd also be bummed to see Ultimate's ambition scaled back to such a degree, although I can understand people's frustration at their preferred characters being lost in the shuffle of fan favourites and non-Nintendo characters. I just can't see a roster that can match Ultimate or even make up for what's lost from Ultimate being created under these conditions.

That's still a very subjective judgment and I don't mean to criticize anyone whose tastes trend more towards that direction, but I just wanted to share an alternative perspective.
Yup, that’s why I’m so nervous about what this game might be (I mean not really in the grand scheme of things but as far as video games go). I think I’m in the minority here but Nintendo’s modern IP never really appealed much to me personally. I never really had a ton of interest to play Splatoon, ARMS, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, or Ring Fit. I tend to prefer games with a good narrative and characters I can get invested in like JRPGs but I still have a lot of nostalgia for their classic IPs. I’m not going to get upset or anything about a Switch focused roster if that’s what the majority of people want but I’d find it really hard to get excited for myself. I’ll still be happy for those fans.

It seems like I unintentionally gave off the impression that I’m expecting all my favorite characters to show up in the next game just because I like talking about them. I don’t actually think I’ll see many at all but I feel like a few at least have some small chance so I tend to focus on them more and why I think they could logically be chosen. That doesn’t mean they will or even that they’re likely, just that they’re a feasible option. Many others like Zegram and Bugzzy basically have no chance at all but I still enjoy theorizing about them.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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As far as Nintendo goes im more than content with what has been added so far, aside from Golden Sun i dont know what new series they could add that would excite me.
 

Gengar84

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As far as Nintendo goes im more than content with what has been added so far, aside from Golden Sun i dont know what new series they could add that would excite me.
The main new Nintendo IP is be excited for is Astral Chain. I had a lot of fun with that game and the combat system would be really cool to see how it could work in Smash. I’m a huge fan of the design of one of the major antagonists, Jena Anderson so I’d love to see her in Smash if we ever got a second character. I really enjoyed the first Golden Sun game too so I’d be happy to see that as well.
 
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Thegameandwatch

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The most demand ive seen for anything echoes of wisdom (characterwise) Is Toy Link getting a latger role in the next smash!
Some talk about Zelda in that game but I found several posts that essentially say to make echoes an aesthetic change where it’s used for Down despite being unrelated.

They will likely change one move (probably side b) and leave it at that. Down b is already a move that Zelda has canonically used unlike her other specials which only appear in spinoffs if it’s used by her.
 
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