Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

Between NASB2's roguelike campaign and Sparking Zero's what-if stories, I really appreciate the fighting games released in the 2020's with single-player content that Smash could take notes from.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I dunno. I get a lot of mileage out of 5-8 player Smash.

How? It's not available online.

Do you just live in a college dorm or something?

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I have used it but generally for 6 player smash since getting 8 controllers is pretty rare. I like it I just hope it doesn't limit some characters potential, 4+ smash should be a goofy unbalanced mess lol

 

[NintenRob]

Between NASB2's roguelike campaign and Sparking Zero's what-if stories, I really appreciate the fighting games released in the 2020's with single-player content that Smash could take notes from.

I know what you mean but the idea that Smash Bros should "take notes" from other fighting games (or games in general) is a little triggering to me so I'm gonna rant. (But totally not targeted at you)


It's absolutely insane to me how many options Smash Bros has we take for granted. Like compare what Smash Bros let's you do and compare that to ARMS, Street Fighter, Mario Kart, Mario Party and basically any other game.


Smash Bros let's you choose how long a fight last, how many stocks you fight with, if you want to use percentage or stamina, if FS meter is on or off, what items appear, how frequently they appear, what stages can show up in random, the frequency of the songs that play on the stages, stage morph as an option, handicaps, up to 8 fighters with 9 difficulties for CPU. Like it took ages for Mario Kart to let you do custom items and it still has limitations, and you haven't been able to do custom laps since Double Dash.

And I haven't even mentioned special Smash or Spirits. Do other fighting games ever give you this amount of flexibility? Can we just appreciate what Smash Bros has?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I know what you mean but the idea that Smash Bros should "take notes" from other fighting games (or games in general) is a little triggering to me so I'm gonna rant. (But totally not targeted at you)


It's absolutely insane to me how many options Smash Bros has we take for granted. Like compare what Smash Bros let's you do and compare that to ARMS, Street Fighter, Mario Kart, Mario Party and basically any other game.


Smash Bros let's you choose how long a fight last, how many stocks you fight with, if you want to use percentage or stamina, if FS meter is on or off, what items appear, how frequently they appear, what stages can show up in random, the frequency of the songs that play on the stages, stage morph as an option, handicaps, up to 8 fighters with 9 difficulties for CPU. Like it took ages for Mario Kart to let you do custom items and it still has limitations, and you haven't been able to do custom laps since Double Dash.

And I haven't even mentioned special Smash or Spirits. Do other fighting games ever give you this amount of flexibility? Can we just appreciate what Smash Bros has?

And that's all well and good for multiplayer. No one can deny other games should learn from Smash when it comes to giving players options.


.....but what does any of that have to do with the single player?
Why is wanting Smash to take after other games for the single player campaigns warranting a rant about the multiplayer aspects?

 

[dream1ng]

Now that the topic is items, I do kinda wonder about something that's sorta random, but still.

The Cloaking Device was in Melee and missed out on every game after, presumably because it's from Perfect Dark according to Melee's Japanese version.

Now that Banjo is in Smash and is probably pretty likely to come back since he was really easy to license and was very high on the Ballot, do you think there's a chance the Cloaking Device returns? lol

I think it was cut because it was kind of an awkward, unpopular item. If you look at the motion-sensor bomb, that was originally from Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, but over time it just adopted an original look. It's not like the cloaking device couldn't do the same.

I mean there are even invisibility-causing items in existing series like Mario and Zelda that they could've changed it to.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How? It's not available online.

Do you just live in a college dorm or something?

I have friends and we get together and play video games.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think it was cut because it was kind of an awkward, unpopular item. If you look at the motion-sensor bomb, that was originally from Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, but over time it just adopted an original look. It's not like the cloaking device couldn't do the same.

I mean there are even invisibility-causing items in existing series like Mario and Zelda that they could've changed it to.

I mean I agree tbh, I'm just kinda like "Could they though?" for the heck of it, I don't really care what the Cloaking Device's status in Smash is, I was just kinda like "Hey wait, Banjo is in the game and this item was based on a Rare property right as they got bought out by Microsoft, I wonder if it's possible to bring it back and actually list its game of origin in America this time" lol

EDIT: Also kinda thought of it because it's the only Special Smash status option not to have an associated item. Mega and Mini have the Mushrooms, Flower has Lip's Stick, Bunny has Bunny Hood, Metal has the Metal Box, Tail has the Super Leaf, Rocket Belt/Screw Attack/Back Shield are self-explanatory, Curry has the Superspicy Curry, and Reflect has the Franklin Badge.

 

[Schnee117]

Smash Bros let's you choose how long a fight last, how many stocks you fight with, if you want to use percentage or stamina, if FS meter is on or off, what items appear, how frequently they appear, what stages can show up in random, the frequency of the songs that play on the stages, stage morph as an option, handicaps, up to 8 fighters with 9 difficulties for CPU.

Other fighting games do a mix of these things where they're applicable.
Round times are a standard option, you can choose how many rounds you have to win, you can pick different win conditions, you can disable meter if you wish, you can manipulate modifiers if you wish, handicaps are a thing too. Extensive CPU difficulty levels are standard

And I haven't even mentioned special Smash or Spirits. Do other fighting games ever give you this amount of flexibility? Can we just appreciate what Smash Bros has?

Mortal Kombat's had Test Your Luck which is basically special smash but with more modifiers to play with. SF6 has Extreme Battles. UMvC3 has Heroes and Heralds. Injustice 2 had the gear system as the closest analogue to Spirits.

 

[dream1ng]

I mean I agree tbh, I'm just kinda like "Could they though?" for the heck of it, I don't really care what the Cloaking Device's status in Smash is, I was just kinda like "Hey wait, Banjo is in the game and this item was based on a Rare property right as they got bought out by Microsoft, I wonder if it's possible to bring it back and actually list its game of origin in America this time" lol

EDIT: Also kinda thought of it because it's the only Special Smash status option not to have an associated item. Mega and Mini have the Mushrooms, Flower has Lip's Stick, Bunny has Bunny Hood, Metal has the Metal Box, Tail has the Super Leaf, Rocket Belt/Screw Attack/Back Shield are self-explanatory, Curry has the Superspicy Curry, and Reflect has the Franklin Badge.

I see no reason MS would say no, so if Nintendo wanted to I'm sure they could. The question, well, questions are, one, if they'd care - enough to license the content, and two, how content that would typically show up in base, like an item, be treated if the series has not yet been added to the game.

Like, if Banjo isn't base, but he's DLC again, would they add items that would make it pretty obvious that he was coming? That's just a larger question of how they'll handle content rollout. Like... if they knew Steve was arriving later on, but they wanted to add, let's say, a Creeper AT, would they put that in base, which makes it fairly obvious Steve will show up, or do they wait?

Will items/ATs be added periodically this time post-launch so as to not tip their hand? Or to fall in line with a more live service type rollout? I think with a permanent full team, we might see something more like an ongoing service, in which case items/ATs, particularly third-party items/ATs may keep dropping even after launch.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I have friends and we get together and play video games.

Nobody has 7 friends!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nobody has 7 friends!

Darth...

You okay?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I see no reason MS would say no, so if Nintendo wanted to I'm sure they could. The question, well, questions are, one, if they'd care - enough to license the content, and two, how content that would typically show up in base, like an item, be treated if the series has not yet been added to the game.

Like, if Banjo isn't base, but he's DLC again, would they add items that would make it pretty obvious that he was coming? That's just a larger question of how they'll handle content rollout. Like... if they knew Steve was arriving later on, but they wanted to add, let's say, a Creeper AT, would they put that in base, which makes it fairly obvious Steve will show up, or do they wait?

Will items/ATs be added periodically this time post-launch so as to not tip their hand? Or to fall in line with a more live service type rollout? I think with a permanent full team, we might see something more like an ongoing service, in which case items/ATs, particularly third-party items/ATs may keep dropping even after launch.

I mean I feel like DLC stuff just wouldn't happen like that based on Smash 4 and Ultimate. Like if Steve is DLC again, then I doubt we'd get anything like an AT or items from Minecraft pre-Steve aside from technically the programming for stages to utilize his block placing.

That said, I'm assuming Banjo will be base again because of the ease of licensing him and the fact that Microsoft agreed to put Banjo-Kazooie on NSO for presumably nothing more than the licensing cost (since we don't really know how that works for third parties it could be more but yeah). I feel like they'd be a-okay with putting Banjo in base because they aren't doing anything with him and it's basically free Nintendo money for just sending references for possible stages and stuff (since Ubisoft sending a model for Rayman's trophy was an outside case in Smash 4) and that Nintendo/Sakurai would likely want him back because he did so well on the Ballot and is thus a popular request that's easy to get. But that's me getting off-topic about it lol

My assumption about Banjo does make me wonder about generally adding some kind of Rareware AT though from their original stuff.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

My assumption about Banjo does make me wonder about generally adding some kind of Rareware AT though from their original stuff.

Can at least write off Conker for the role.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Can at least write off Conker for the role.

Like write off as in it's not gonna be Conker, or... lol

Because if it has to be from Banjo's games, I was gonna suggest Mumbo tbh and make him sorta like Tingle or Riki in that he can do a bunch of stuff based on his spells from Tooie, but I dunno that I'm really too well versed in non-Banjo Rareware stuff to pick from outside of that lol

 

[cashregister9]

My assumption about Banjo does make me wonder about generally adding some kind of Rareware AT though from their original stuff.

I think that is our shot Mr. Pants bros...

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

A Banjo Assist Trophy? I'd go with Gobi.
He just wants to sit in a corner of the stage and chill. If you hit him, he spits out water and then he runs to another spot. The stronger you hit him, more water he spits. You can use this for crazy edgeguards when he's near the ledge.
Of course he'd have his classic "MWHOOOHHH" voice clip when you hit him.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Like write off as in it's not gonna be Conker, or... lol

Because if it has to be from Banjo's games, I was gonna suggest Mumbo tbh and make him sorta like Tingle or Riki in that he can do a bunch of stuff based on his spells from Tooie, but I dunno that I'm really too well versed in non-Banjo Rareware stuff to pick from outside of that lol

That it won't be Conker.
I doubt they'd want anything to do with him lol.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

That it won't be Conker.
I doubt they'd want anything to do with him lol.

I mean I can agree with that, not really sure what he'd be able to do as an AT anyway lol

The other Banjo-specific idea I had was the easy one, just make Gruntilda an AT lol

 

[chinkuru]

I would love to see Mumbo Jumbo as an assist trophy turning rivals into washing machines. It would have also been cool if one of the banjo taunts was similar to Snake's codec but with Grunty's rhymes.

 

[Oracle Link]

I like the diversity among the cast right now so I don't really want to see it become all totk. Like Zelda especially very justifiably should remain as her current design. Her Ultimate look has somewhat become a default for her as it's her design in Echoes of Wisdom and was the basis for her Cadence of Hyrule look too.

Though obviously I'm not opposed to have all the incarnations as alts, but personally I'd prefer the Ultimate look for the cast remain the default (especially if that saves up time for a new character)

However it would be really weird if smash 6 Rolls arround and the only one were the default isnt a classic design is link?
Its fine if they still have a small link with a classic design!
But Lets say theres only BOTW/ TOTK link! Its just weird links classic outfit is much better and more iconic then zeldas! And i cant be the only one who missed it during BOTW/ TOTK (although in totk i got out of my way to play with a classic armour conbvinience be dammned!)

Thats all i just think its weird if we had a classic zelda and ganondorf but no classic link (default)!

 

[Stratos]

I'll be honest, I have Conker on my wish list as a newcomer because like Banjo, he made his debut in Diddy Kong Racing and for no other reason. Of course I would have liked him even more if his video game series had continued the video game series after Conker's Pocket Tales, his family friendly. For example instead of Conker's Bad Fur Day, if they had released Twelve Tales: Conker 64 and continued after the later games in the Conker series to be family friendly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Given that they've not brought back the Excitebike assist trophy, seeing that general concept replaced by Diddy Kong Racing characters (minus Diddy and Banjo when appropriate) speeding across the sage would be a fun shout out to both Rare and Nintendo characters.

 

[NintenRob]

However it would be really weird if smash 6 Rolls arround and the only one were the default isnt a classic design is link?
Its fine if they still have a small link with a classic design!
But Lets say theres only BOTW/ TOTK link! Its just weird links classic outfit is much better and more iconic then zeldas! And i cant be the only one who missed it during BOTW/ TOTK (although in totk i got out of my way to play with a classic armour conbvinience be dammned!)

Thats all i just think its weird if we had a classic zelda and ganondorf but no classic link (default)!

We might still have Toon Link and/or Young Link

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I'm the odd guy to admit that Ultimate was the best approach for Single-Player for me and all the next game would have to do is to add tweaks for improvement like better Mii Customization or being any amount of numbers other than 3 and 5 for Squad Strike.

Other than:
Wii U's Classic Mode
Boss Rush
Improved Smash Run
Maybe All-Star.

New Modes:
Party/Raid Matches from DBFZ
Sparking Zero's Matches


There is really no modes want to return other than one we have already in Ult. People clamored for Brawl for the amount of modes it has but that has always been a case of quantity > quality. None of modes outside the ones mention including SSE were worth playing. Which ironic because Quantity> Quality is criticism levied against Ultimate

I think World of Light was the best direction so far in terms of Adventure Mode. Having it return abeit with the Spirit Count trimmed with new bosses would be enough to sell me

 

[Diddy Kong]

However it would be really weird if smash 6 Rolls arround and the only one were the default isnt a classic design is link?
Its fine if they still have a small link with a classic design!
But Lets say theres only BOTW/ TOTK link! Its just weird links classic outfit is much better and more iconic then zeldas! And i cant be the only one who missed it during BOTW/ TOTK (although in totk i got out of my way to play with a classic armour conbvinience be dammned!)

Thats all i just think its weird if we had a classic zelda and ganondorf but no classic link (default)!

75% sure Toon Link is at least gonna be there. And regular Champion Link is more or less gonna be revamped into something more modern. Or not.

I mean we all have our likes and dislikes. I would like Impa too but we gotta be realistic with expectations. A third Link is not too much of an option, and this type of Link you suggest would work best as a composed version of all previous Links into one.

Hence the name you always call this character, Classic Link. He gotta have the classic Link stuff then. I'd imagine him mostly as a composed character between Link and Toon Link. Smaller than regular Link for sure, but more or less a middleweight and not middle heavy like Link or middle light like the smaller Links. And I between their speeds and falling speeds too. Nothing else would make sense to me.

However, this relies solely on Toon Link being fully absent. I cannot picture 3 Links yet again.

 

[Perkilator]

Ultimately, I’d prefer just one Link with a somewhat modernized take on the existing Link moveset. Which is what I attempted with my Link overhaul.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

What do you guys think of this video?

I actually agree with a lot of his points. Not all, though.
Here's my takes.
Spoilered wall of text:

Spoiler

I also think that Mario should be less focused on endless combos and cheesy kills and more on fluid movement and versatile specials. Maybe he should lose FLUDD and gain his somersault + jumping slide in its place? I like FLUDD, though. And I don't agree on him needing more references. He's heavily based on Mario 64, which is the game where he does the most direct combat. His major outings (Bros., World, 64 and Sunshine) are represented; Galaxy is missing but it has a whole character in Rosalina, he only really needs a move using Cappy. The round spin Cappy does around Mario could honestly also work just a normal move. Would be nice.
I feel like finally giving him his roll and making his down B usable in the air did a lot to really round up his kit. DK is pretty much perfect in Ultimate. He's very explosive but also very exploitable, he has a unique playstyle with obvious strenght and weaknesses. What else does a character need? I wouldn't necessarily mind giving him a barrel-based special (Headbutt feels pretty expendable, and it's weird that it actually has more range than Giant Punch somehow), but I don't want it to detract from the feeling that you're playing as a big angry ape. Give him his voice though!
I disagree on Link. I think that keeping a character with as long a history as his slavishly up to date with the newest game is not necessarily a good idea (it also goes for Mario and Samus). Focusing on his essential traits is the best way to go, and I think that Ultimate Link accomplishes it fine. That said, changing up his specials a little to make him more of a "big brain" character is an interesting idea. Wouldn't mind it. I think that Smash 6 should absolutely still have Breath of the Wild Link though. It's one of the most beloved games of all time.
Samus is weird, because even in her games she basically has two playstyles. The slow, tanky Samus from Super and Prime, and the agile, sleek Samus from Fusion and Dread. I'm not sure Smash can make both portrayals coexist in the same moveset. Making her do more melee attacks for her normal moves could work, but as long as Samus 1) keeps Charge Shot, and 2) remains the archetypal zoner, she's never going to move all that fast. So here's what I'd do. Make her faster and more physical (her u-smash for example could become the counter from Dread, and down tilt would be the slide also from Dread), remove Charge Shot and instead make her able to use Energy/Wave/Ice/Plasma Beams depending on how long she presses B (Energy Beam would only be slightly stronger than a Megaman pellet, while Plasma would be very strong but you won't be able to store it anymore) and...
...keep the Arm Cannon focused normal attacks to Dark Samus. She did attack with scattershots a lot in both Echoes and Corruption, so moves like u-smash and f-air really fit her. Charge Shot also really feels like a "boss character" move, so I'd also give it to Dark Samus. Screw Attack, Missile and Bomb I'd keep to Samus, and I'd give Dark Samus phazon-based moves from her actual fights in their place. Maybe it's too much tinkering with such an iconic Smash moveset, though, but you'd get to freshen up Samus a bit while also making Dark Samus more unique and faithful.
Yoshi works pretty well. There's... not many other ways you can make Yoshi. I'd tone down his air speed just a little though, and in exchange make Egg Roll a real move. But yeah Yoshi's well designed, there's not much to say about him.
I'm not sure about making Kirby full of references. He's like Mario in that he actually has a lot of references already, it's just that they're a little more hidden than usual. And also, his current normal moves are very functional. I agree that he needs a bit of rethinking, but not to such an extreme degree. Really, he only needs a little more air speed and a real side special. Hammer wouldn't be very missed I think. Stone and Final Cutter are also kinda bad but they're iconic, I wouldn't change them. And give him back his Brawl Final Smash, it was so much fun...
Works perfectly as the archetypal rushdown character and doesn't really have a ton of material to pull from, there's not much to say about him.
I actually don't like Pikachu in Ultimate at all, he feels awful to play as and awful to play against. I liked him better in older Smash games though, it's mostly for balancing and game feel reasons. I disagree on his moveset not being iconic, Thunder and Thunderjolt are classic and still very unique Smash moves.
Yeah Luigi is a mess. To be fair, I think that Luigi being kinda like Mario but less versatile and better at combos is a decent direction for him. He has more trouble at getting in compared to his brother, but once he does he messes you up. But it's just too extreme... Being a touch of death character doesn't fit Luigi at all, and honestly him having 0 air speed is also getting old. I feel like both brothers could use getting "all-rounder"-ed a little. Then, yeah, you can have Mario excel in movement and Luigi in combos and maybe even in early KOs still, but in a less extreme and more fun way.
Yo-yo edgeguards are dumb but aside from those, I wouldn't change a thing about Ness. He's tons of fun, he's still super unique, the Earthbound visual effects introduced in Ultimate rounded up his presentation in an excellent way. He's pretty much perfect in my book.
Like Ness, he's still perfect. His flashy and risky playstyle perfectly captures the feel of F-Zero and he has one of the most iconic Smash movesets ever. There's not much to say.
Strongly disagree on his take on Puff. Despite being so simple, her moveset is still very unique and I feel like most Smash fans really like Jigglypuff? Sleep, Rest and the walls of death never get old. There's no need to change such a well-executed playstyle just because she got a Fairy type at one point. Which brings me to...
...there's no need to change such a well-executed playstyle just because she got a game where she plays dress-up at one point. At her core, Peach is a princess, not a cosplayer. She's another character that I feel doesn't really need any change. Unique, easy to grasp, but actually very complex with a high skill ceiling. It's just good stuff. That said, there is one good reason to change one of her moves... I'm not going to go into details but it's about her neutral B.
No strong opinion on Daisy. She's basically Peach but headstrong in all her appearances and she doesn't really have any exclusive abilities, and that's carried over in Smash. That said, I'm not opposed to her being made a little more different of course. I just think it's cute that she's in at all.
There's nothing wrong with Bowser but I don't really like the way he plays. Never liked it, actually. I don't know, he feels like he's missing some oomph, even though he actually has plenty of oomph? But Ganondorf, Dedede, Ridley and K. Rool are all so much more fun than him. Don't know how I'd change him, though. It's probably just personal taste. He needs his actual voice though, even more than DK, that dim screech he has now is kinda sad.
100% agree here, if there's one character who's justified in having 0 to deaths, it's the Ice Climbers. All their stuff has different routes and they're all finger breaking, plus they have a really bad neutral so it's hard for them to even get in, and you can completely lock them out of the 0 to deaths by KOing Nana... All in all, it's fair. Plus they're very unique, I think that they're really great in Ultimate. Also, casual Smash is rarely talked about but they're still one of the most fun characters in that context. Being able to use two items at the same time always makes you feel like a cheater.
Another character that pretty much achieved perfect form in Ultimate for what they set out to do, imo. Why would you want to ruin that by giving her... -checks notes- ...a harp? What would that even do?
Making Phantom slightly less overcentralizing and giving her better normals seems like the way to go. Zelda is always going to be a defensive character, though. That said, I think that making her a little more "big brain" in the style of Pac-man and the likes would be a good call. She's a little one-note as of now. You could use her down B to summon not just different stages of the Phantom, bu actually unique objects (like in EoW) that would behave in more unique ways. This is one of the times where a new release gives an opportunity to actually inject more life to an existing moveset, imo.
Another character at the top of his game in Ultimate. Yeah he's low tier, but he works really well as Mario's Ganondorf now, and his unique moves like d-air and b-throw feel great to use. Aside from giving him a slightly better recovery, I'm not sure what I'd do with him. The doc is in a good place.
Pichu is pretty unique in Ultimate. He's very hard to hit but he has very poor range, he has endless combos and his finishers hit like a truck but he's the lightest character in the game and his attacks even damage himself. It's a very unique combination of traits that definitely justifies his spot in the roster, even though he has the same attacks as Pikachu. It's sad that so many people want him cut, he's very fun and well designed in Ultimate.
No strong opinion on Falco. I actually think he's kinda lame this time. it's good for him to be combo-focused, but it's always the same couple of ones... Meh. He actually represents Star Fox better than Fox, though. He's much more aerial-focused, his lasers feel more powerful, he barrel rolls a lot with his own body. Pluls he's pretty much a unique character now and he's still decently popular. He's fine. I'm one of those who think he was at his best in Melee.
I really don't know about Marth. He's still good old Marth to me. He's fast, he's reliable, and his tippers are satisfying. I only play him very casually though, and yeah Lucina and the abundance of swordsmen in general have put Marth into a bit of an identity crisis, but not as much as Ike. If they can fix the hitboxes I think he can work as the dedicated tipper characterwell enough I think.
The problem with Lucina is that she overshadows Marth competitively, but I'm not even sure if that's actually problem? Nowadays the consensus is that Roy also overshadows Chrom. Even though they're echoes, they work differently from their counterparts, and different characters are going to have different placements. But anyways, you could make Lucina's attacks a little weaker, she has such a strong presence that it wouldn't really hinder her all that much, Next to a more consistent Marth it would fix their dynamic I think.
Hard disagree here. Young Link is fantastically designed in Ultimate. He's fast, he has a lot of combos, he has good projectiles, he can play some trapping game thanks to his bombs. He's very dynamic. And in spite of all that, he's also pretty fair. Plus he's very distinct from regular Link now. It's a shame that everyone wants such a fun character gone. Majora's Mask is one of my GOATs but I don't think that Young Link more specifically representing this little game called Ocarina of Time (you might have heard of it) is necessarily a problem. Next time he really should put on the Fierce Deity Mask for his final smash, though. And Majora should get its dues with playable Skull Kid.
What a can of worms this is. For the next game I just want Ganondorf to keep his OoT design, it's by far his best. What I'd do is keep him more or less like he is, change his down B for a projectile and make his up B cover more distance via floating. Give it a permanent hitbox so that on the ground you can use it a little he'd use Falcon Kick in Ultimate. His other stuff is too fun and too ingrained into Smash's identity to change, sorry.
Another character I have no strong opinion on. Being a glass cannon is fitting enough for him and his animations are awesome, but overall he's just... kinda just there?
Roy works very well indeed. Not much to say.
I think that Chrom is really fun and a very good way to do an echo.
Agree. G&W is another one of those characters who really found their identity in Ultimate. Some of his stuff is overtuned but it's hardly a difficult fix for a sequel. Just two minor nitpicks on my part. His 2d monochrome bomb generating a 3d multicolor explosion always manages to bother me, and I get why they removed the feather but now in his f-smash he just looks like he's exposing his peepee...
Meta Knight on the other hand somewhat gets lost in modern Smash's abundance of characters imo. I really don't know what I'd change about him, though. A slightly longer sword and less extreme combos seems like a fair compromise. At this point I'm noticing that MockRock often advocates for making a given character's identity less extreme, which is fair enough in most cases but it could tend to homogenize the roster too much if you apply this principle too often. But I do think that Meta Knight needs some sauce.
Pit is pretty great as a beginner-friendly character. Fix his hitboxes and he's good to go.
He works well enough the way he is now. I don't think he should be decloned (he's just way too small of a character in the grand scheme of things, and him having the exact same silhouette as Pit but playing differently would be confusing), but the differences he has now are fine.
Agree here. I have no idea what's going on with this character. She wants to play hit and run but she can also kill you in three hits, and her mobility is just absurd, probably the best in the game. I hate playing against her and I have no idea what I'm doing when I'm playing as her. There's few characters in Smash that I just really don't like at all, but Zero Suit Samus is one.
Agree again, make Waft less easy to combo into and Wario is a perfectly designed character. I love Wario Land but he has the 2-3 references from that series that really matter and he has a really strong identity in Smash, both visually and in terms of playstyle. Yeah Wario is pretty great.
I don't fully agree with his take. I think that Snake is a very creative and dynamic character in Smash. Of course characters in this game only have so many moves, there's limits to how many different things you can do. But people play Snake in a ton of different ways and he gives ample space to creativity and player expression. He's also wonderfully chaotic in free for alls. Aside from toning some of his stuff down a little (u-tilt is busted, grenades shouldn't get him out of combos for free) I don't think that there's much to change about Snake. He's well designed and worth keeping around.
Hard agree here. Ike is the biggest victim of the swordfighter inflation. He hits hard, but other characters do exactly that and also do more (thinking about Cloud and Pyra/Mythra in particular), so Ike being left being so slow, without projectiles, and cursed into spamming nair for all eternity feels really bad at this point. On the other hand, there's merit in having simple to understand characters, he's still the quintessentiial burly swordsmen with no frills. But he just feels so limited and one-note, he really could use an overhaul.
Brilliant character, there's not much I'd change.
Disagree. I think that Diddy is very fun to play as, and the banana is the core of his playstyle. It's something that's pretty unique to him. The banana's positioning influences the entire neutral game of the match and creates a lot of tension since he gets so much off of it but you can also use it against him. It also creates interesting dynamics in conjuction with Monkey Flip. And in spite of all that, the banana doesn't make Diddy feel too one-note because the rest of his kit is also pretty well rounded. But remove the banana and he's just another fast combo-oriented character. Not sure why you'd want more focus on his rocket barrels of all things. They're his recovery. What else should they be used for? It's literally what they do.
Fingerbreaker Lucas is not my jam, sadly. I was in love with weirdo zoner Smash 4 Lucas. Even liked PK Freeze more back then. Carrying a frozen opponent into the upper blast zone with PK Thunder 2 always made me feel like a king. If it was up to me, Smash 6's Lucas would lean back into that identity a little AND still keep his fingerbreaker stuff. It's not like he's a busted character or anything. But yeah he'll always be one of my favorite Smash characters regardless.
I remember that, a lot of time ago in the Brawl days, before he got announced, alongside "Ridley is too big to work in Smash" you'd sometimes see somebody argue that "Sonic is too fast to work in Smash". Turns out one of those two takes was right, and it's not the Ridley one. But what else can you do with Sonic? He needs to be the fastest character in the game, and he needs to have a chargeable spin dash. It's Sonic. Making him not able to cancel his special moves could be a way to fix him, but maybe that would make him even more monotone? It's not a very elegant solution but he's probably one of those characters who just need copious amounts of nerfs of all kinds. That fixed Bayonetta. Like, he has actual design problems but his moves are also just really busted. Why does his f-smash have more range than Byleth's?
He's one of those characters who's unique and fun to play but who's also never going to be particularly good in competitive Smash. I don't think that his air speed necessarily needs to be this bad, though. Same for his attacks, they don't all need to be as slow as they are. You probably could make him a little better just by tweaking some parameters.
In my opinion Olimar was really fun in Brawl, but going from 6 to 3 pikmin and losing his old up B destroyed him. I don't really agree with his animations being particularly confusing. You need to watch the pikmin, and they move differently for each of his moves. Then again, fighiting against him is confusing actually, since having pikmin on you messes up the rhythm of most of your moves... I really don't know about Olimar. Reverting him back to 6 pikmin would probably make him busted, but he just feels like "we have Olimar at home" nowadays, and I don't know how you could rework him more heavily since he's pretty faithful to what you do in Pikmin games. He's one of those characters who could use some kind of rework but it's hard to figure out how to actually go about it.
Lucario is a mess. His attacks are very bland and kinda "been there, done that", he's weirdly floaty, and the only thing that really distinguishes him, his Aura, is widely hated and is honestly a pretty poor comeback mechanic. I'd say that he's one of those few characters I really don't like at all alongside Zero Suit Samus, but actually it is pretty fun when you have high damage and anything can kill you but also every single one of your moves is a nuclear explosion. I feel like this concept can be savaged, but he'd need to be less floaty and less campy, so it would be a pretty major rework.
He never really left as strong an impression on me as the Ice Climbers, Game & Watch or Duck Hunt, but ROB is fine. Nerf some of his most ridicolous stuff and he's good to go.
I agree that he should have more stuff from Wind Waker in order to distinguish him more from the other two Links. Having three Links is fine but Toon Link in particular feels a little like wasted potential, and he also feels somewhat redundant in Ultimate.
I don't know about Wolf being this pinnacle of game design. He's a little too good at a little too many things. Great air speed, arguably best projectile in the game, reflector, long combos, insane frame data, very powerful smash attacks that also have little to no endlag, decent recovery... Sakurai presented him as a "high risk, high reward" character and that's just not what he is at all. Give him some nerfs and he's good to go, but I'd like it more for his kit to be reworked and actually lean into the "risk" part of the equation. Unpopular opinion, but he's very frustrating to play against and kinda boring to play as since he's just so plain. Giving him some spice wouldn't hurt.
Villager is very unique and fun, I don't think there's much else you could do with him.
Another perfectly executed character in my book. I love to play as Megaman. You often see people wanting to make him less projectile-based, but that's what makes him unique! His attacks are indeed clunky but it all makes sense once you get the hang of him.
Yeah the Wii Fit Trainer is kind of a mess. I feel like you can rebalance her a little to make her more interesting, but the whole idea behind the character is somewhat flawed in my opinion. She has no gameplay identity beyond the joke that every attack is a fitness exercise. I like to play as her in casual Smash, but in 1vs1s where moveset design actually becomes important having her in the match on either side is just painful.
I feel like positioning Luma where you want him to be is too difficult and unreliable. Aside from that Rosalina is okay I guess.
He's a lot like Olimar, the Wii Fit Trainer or Lucario. They don't fully work but it's hard to fix them without detracting from their identity. If there's one character in the roster who could use being made a little less extreme though, that's Little Mac.
He's okay, not much to say.
Mii Fighters are very good concept for the character, and very well executed. Swordfighter being more of a zoner is indeed weird, and the character also feels really weak so I think there's room to tweak that version a little.
Palutena is fine. She's easy to pick up, she feels strong, but she's not one of those characters who play the game for you. The endless n-air loops are silly but aside from that I think that she's in a pretty good spot.
I'll never be able to play him well, but Pac-man is fantastic. It's crazy how creative he can be, watching or even playing against a good Pac-man is always super fun. Toning down his close range fighting a little wouldn't break the character, and you could probably give him some cooldown before he can use the hydrant again. But it's small tweaks, Pac-man is in a good place.
I... really don't like Robin at all. No strong opinions on what they should do with him short of a complete rework.
Another messy character. In my opinion, the fundamental problem with Shulk is that he shouldn't have been the stat manipulation character. 1) It's been a long time since I've played Xenoblade 1, but I don't remember him actually playing like that?, and 2) since he fights with the Monado, his attacks are always going to be slow and long-ranged. This kind of mechanic would have worked better on a more standard character in my opinion. No matter what you do, Shulk always feels unwieldy. And in spite of all that, he's also pretty plain as a swordfighter. He has the counter, the vertical up B, and even his side special, while iconic to the character, is nothing to write home about. This is his identity now, but I wish they took a different direciton with him.
Agree. There's nothing particularly wrong with Bowser Jr. but he's also kinda just there.
Agree. Duck Hunt is a very well made character. I think that you could make the hitboxes on a couple of their normals a little less specific and that wouldn't make them broken, but the character's general design is really strong.
The best designed fighting game character in Smash, in my opinion. Ryu just works well. I think it's fair to have him be mostly based on Street Fighter II, it's his most iconic outing, just like Mario is mostly based on Mario 64. Tweak a couple of normals maybe, but I don't think you should mess with the way he plays.
Ken is a little silly though. He's a clunky touch of death character, he was Kazuya before Kazuya showed up. I think that making him a little less extreme wouldn't be a bad idea.
I can see where he is coming from, but I disagree with his take on Cloud, especially on Cross Slash not feeling like a special move? What? It's true that he feels less "the Limit Break character" and more of an all-rounder now, but that's actually a good thing in my opinion. Really the only problem with Cloud is that he's too fun and he eclipses most other swordfighters. I can see them changing a couple of his normals to reflect FF7R, but his overall design works very well, there's no need to fix what isn't broken.
Not sure about the Corrin take. Yeah he uses his aerials a lot, but it's werid to single him out for that when almost every single other sword character does. B-air and D-air are very unique at least, and his smash attacks aren't very sword-like. You're left with a small bunch of moves that feel a little too generic but otherwise I don't really see it. Corrin is the poster boy for "promotional anime swordsman that shouldn't be here", and I agree with this opinion, but as a fighter he's pretty solid in my opinion.
Another character I don't like anything about, sorry. I think that her whole premise is inherently unfitting for a game like Smash. Ultimate made her less of a problem but she still isn't any fun.
Eh they're fine? I agree that they probably could have pushed the inking the stage concept a little further. Still, they're an agile character with resource management and some slight stage control, it's not like they don't have their niche. Don't really like playing as them, personally, but that's besides the point.
Ridley is a little underpowered but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with his design. Some buffs and maybe a couple of new normal attacks would already do wonders for him.
Agree that Simon is very good for what they wanted him to be. Years after his inclusion, with the character having been mostly figured out, I agree it's fair to say that giving him a slightly better recovery wouldn't really make him broken. Personally I find him very fun to play as.
Again, one of those characters who's fine as an echo in my opinion, but I wouldn't be opposed to him becoming slightly more unique.
What's there to say about K. Rool? His design is fantastic. He's also a really bad character. He has a lot in common with Dedede, actually. I can't see him ever evolving past his current role as a n00b stomper as long as he keeps his current design. But not every character can be top tier, and K. Rool is incredibly fun and popular the way he is. Some buffs wouldn't hurt, but as far as being a worthy inclusion in the game goes, I'd say that he is in a very good place.
I like Isabelle a lot, she's even more fun than Villager and she's actually one of my most played newcomers. I suppose you could declone her a little more but I don't think that's necessary.
Not much to add, Incineroar is awesome. Really great fighter design. Cutting him would be a tragedy.
I think the biggest problem with Plant is that, as its opponent, you rarely have any reason to dance to its tune, so to say. Giving it some way to force its opponent to approach would probably improve its design quite a bit. Otherwise it's another very well executed inclusion, not much to add.
Hard disagree on Joker. Never played a Persona game and don't plan to, but having him use multiple Personas would radically change the way he plays, he'd basically become an entirely different character, and he is very popular the way he is now. Just Arsene is fine, and it's already unique enough. I think that making him able to fill his summon bar only via countering attacks with his down B would be a pretty interesting change, though. It would become less of a comeback mechanic and more of a reward for playing well, like Incineroar's Revenge.
Not much to add about Hero. He's very well designed, with smash attacks randomly critting and his spells not having symbols being his only real issues. The fact that this character is not broken beyond repair, or not even particularly above average actually, is a small miracle.
Banjo is cool now?? Toriguri really did put in the work. But yeah, Banjo was always cool. Grenades, Breegull Blaster, Wonderwing and a bunch of odd normals make for a very versatile and open to creativity kit. You discover new tricks even after hundreds of hours. I think Banjo is the most fun I've ever had with a Smash character. That's not to say I necessarily disagree with MockRock's take here, I'm not opposed to the next game toning down the zoning a little and making him more of a brawler. More than that though, they should figure out a way to make his kit a little more welcoming to a new player. Figuring out how to play Banjo is hard, and I'm not sure that was intentional.
Terry is in a pretty good place, personally I'd tone down his damage output a little, but other than that he's pretty much perfect.
Byleth is also pretty much what the developers wanted him to be, not much to add.
"Burn it to the ground" seems a bit harsh. She's not nearly as problematic as Sonic, or even as Kazuya. I really can't see what's so wrong with Min Min's moveset aside from it being annoying to deal with.
Steve needs some toning down. Aside from that he's pretty great and one my favorite new inclusions. I don't have much to say about him.
Sephiroth is also pretty great? He nails the feel of playing as (or against) a final boss, but he's a pretty honest character all things considered. Probably the only honest character in FP2. His one-winged mode is busted, I think it's only fair that his opponent can get to chance to KO him before he can access it. He executes the glass cannon boss character concept so much better than Mewtwo in my opinion.
I agree that they're grossly overtuned and not particularly interesting. Still, I'd say they are a conceptually fairly decent attempt at a transforming/stance change character. Give these two a fair amount of nerfs and they're pretty much good to go.
Yeah, the biggest problem with Kazuya, design-wise, it's that he has like 30 attacks but EWGF is the best choice 99% of the times. Then he hits you once and you're dead. Him having super armor or straight-up invincibility on so many of his moves is also a problem. The idea behind him is solid enough, but I think that his kit should undergo a heavy rebalance/rework process.
And, finally, Sora. Another unpopular opinion but I agree that he's kinda lame. He just slows the game down so much. Him being simple is fitting, and the rotating spells are a neat idea, but Sonic Blade is a very lame move and everything is just so slow and the aerial combos aren't really particularly interesting. To me it feels like he's a couple of major changes away from really making the most out of what he brings. Which changes exactly, I'm not sure.

 

[toonito]

I do think that one could do an effective tribute to MK short of actual character. Classic Mortal Kombat ninja outfit (with different colors) as a Mii Costume, a Sub Zero (or Scorpion) assist trophy, Shinnok's Amulet perhaps boosting a fighter during a match and so on.

Honestly just the image of Ryu, Terry, & Kazuya fighting while a Sub Zero is shooting ice blasts would something astounding to see in action.

for Smash my ideal fighting game character corner would be Ryu, Chun-Li, Terry, Kazuya, Sol Badguy, and Scorpion/Sub-Zero. I'd be happy with just these 6 characters representing the fighting game genre in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thoughts on Brawl vets:

Spoiler: Text Wall

Meta Knight was too powerful, so they took him in a completely different direction that just made him kinda lame. I was never good at Meta Knight, but I really don't vibe with the little paper cuts he gives his opponents, nor does the fact that he can string his up airs until you die really entice me. I'd like to see him regain some of the powerful feel that he has in the Kirby series, or at the very least, make Mach Tornado not look ridiculously lame.

Pit is fine. Dark Pit could be more different. Don't really have much of an opinion on either.

Zero Suit Samus is fine. MockRock mentioned something about her playstyle direction being a bit wonky, and that could be, but I don't know quite enough to say what's wrong or what to do about it. I don't agree with giving her suit part items though. It would feel random.

Wario is the first character that I dislike the premise of, but seeing as how WarioWare is here to stay, it's probably the correct premise unfortunately. I would like to see Waft decentralized so he's not quite so annoying (or more often, just straight up bad) in competitive play though.

I've never played Metal Gear, so that might be why, but I don't really see a reason to change Snake, although I do understand hating Nakita. I wonder what they'd change it to if they removed it. Tranquilizer? Probably not. Hope it's something cool if they do.

I have no personal opinion on Ike. I understand the criticisms that I see, but I have no personal vision for how I'd like to see him.

Pokémon Trainer is perfect. The only thing I'd say is keep an eye on Charizard, as he's the most likely to suffer in any given iteration.

Diddy Kong needs a facelift just like DK. He's a super charming character everywhere else, and though they tried their best with the direction they were given, he just isn't charming here. As long as it wouldn't interfere with his up special, I wouldn't be opposed to giving him a limited Peach float with Rocketbarrels, and I'm also not opposed to decentralizing the Banana Peel item from his kit, though I don't know how you'd actually pull off the latter idea.

Lucas is fine I guess. I also don't really have an opinion here.

I kinda doubt you'd need to scrap and redo Sonic's moveset in order to fix him, but oh boy do major changes need to be made. Although, I suppose changing the moves that allow him to execute his gameplan would be pretty much the same thing huh...Anyway, I think the best way to fix Sonic is by making his dash speed momentum based, and giving him a boost meter that allows him to move around at full speed like he does now, but incentivises going in by going up as you hit opponents. How exactly you'd pull that off I dunno, but it's a good place to start.

King Dedede feels so bad, and I hate that Gordo is his only functional move. I don't even know what exactly I'd want to do with him, just make him not totally suck.

Olimar I don't think needs to be scrapped and redone, but you do need to fix his Pikmin ordering animations, and change some of his mechanics so that he's not incentivised to kill his Pikmin. To be honest, he should also have some mechanics that incentivise him to make sure his Pikmin don't die. I'm not entirely sure how you'd do that without making him super clunky, but I would like it if the flowering mechanic at least did something. I also don't really agree with the notion that Olimar should be a puppet fighter. I mean, the Pikmin do automate tasks for you, but everything is centralized around the Captain physically tossing their Pikmin at whatever problems they have. I think the current translation of that we have is also the best.

Like with everyone else, I want Aura to be reworked. It shouldn't be "bad at 0%, busted at 100%", it should actually give his moves different properties and stuff. My thought is to make him combo focused with low aura, and then gain his high amount of power and knockback at the cost of those combos at high aura. The middle stages could allow his powerful attacks to have decent K.O. power, but remove his ability to combo quite as well. You'd definitely need an Aura indicator if you made it that in-depth though. Oh, and keep the Aura Sphere cancels. Those are cool.

I have no opinion on R.O.B.

Toon Link could use some features from his entries in his home series. Even Young Link has it to some degree so why can't Toon Link? Granted, this feature osmosis generally only applies to the arrows, boomerangs, and bombs, but I don't see why his forward smash can't be a hammer swing and stuff. In general, he just needs more pizazz in order to stand out from the other Link designs, even assuming they aren't in the next game.

Wolf is perfect. No notes.

 

[Louie G.]

He's one of those characters who's unique and fun to play but who's also never going to be particularly good in competitive Smash. I don't think that his air speed necessarily needs to be this bad, though. Same for his attacks, they don't all need to be as slow as they are. You probably could make him a little better just by tweaking some parameters

I ended up agreeing with a lot of what you were saying, down to disliking the exact same characters lol. But I’ll just respond to your Dedede take, since he’s my main, and I fully agree with what you’re saying here too.

Dedede is not built to be a great character competitively. I do think pretty much everything about him can be ever so slightly better, perhaps Gordos could use a bit extra HP, I think Inhale could be a bit quicker of a move to react etc. Agree on the air speed, that is probably the worst thing about him.

But I’m not bothered by Dedede not being the greatest character, in a game that needs to balance both casual and competitive viability I kinda understand that one of the heaviest, strongest characters in the game with a solid recovery is the way he is. His current design isn’t really one that suits a high tier character and unfortunately I’m just in love with it. I don’t particularly think he needs a new gameplay approach, Gordos are centralizing and they ought to be. They define his gameplan and it’s insanely fun, being a stage control / trapper character suits him well and also feels in tune with the essence of Kirby bosses in general.

Although I suppose being essentially **** tier two games in a row should ring a bell to at least ease back on a few of his shortcomings. Let’s try to see a C-tier Dedede next game, I’d consider that a win.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm the odd guy to admit that Ultimate was the best approach for Single-Player for me and all the next game would have to do is to add tweaks for improvement

Completely agree.

Boss Rush
Improved Smash Run
Maybe All-Star.

Yes.
Still think it makes more sense as a MP mode.
Yes.

I think World of Light was the best direction so far in terms of Adventure Mode. Having it return abeit with the Spirit Count trimmed with new bosses would be enough to sell me

More Bosses, yes. But also more variety in objectives for Spirit Battles, like Events in older games.

for Smash my ideal fighting game character corner would be Ryu, Chun-Li, Terry, Kazuya, Sol Badguy, and Scorpion/Sub-Zero. I'd be happy with just these 6 characters representing the fighting game genre in Smash.

I want Morrigan, Nightmare, Nakoruru and M. Bison as well.

 

[Gorgonzales]

In my opinion Olimar was really fun in Brawl, but going from 6 to 3 pikmin and losing his old up B destroyed him. I don't really agree with his animations being particularly confusing. You need to watch the pikmin, and they move differently for each of his moves. Then again, fighiting against him is confusing actually, since having pikmin on you messes up the rhythm of most of your moves... I really don't know about Olimar. Reverting him back to 6 pikmin would probably make him busted, but he just feels like "we have Olimar at home" nowadays, and I don't know how you could rework him more heavily since he's pretty faithful to what you do in Pikmin games. He's one of those characters who could use some kind of rework but it's hard to figure out how to actually go about it.

I agree that losing 6 Pikmin heavily watered him down. I firmly believe he needs at least 5 Pikmin again, but not in the way it was handled in Brawl since Brawlimar is extremely spammy. Olimar needs a ground-up rework that:

• gives him more distinct animations that are better readable in gameplay (and better show him actually caring for the Pikmin instead of him using them as bludgeoning tools)
• incentivizes Pikmin preservation and punishes Olimar for sacrificing them (ideally Pluck is a lot slower or he can only refill his squad through KOs)
• gives Olimar more area control aspects with the Pikmin (dismissing one to make it stand in place then using the move again to make it perform a unique attack when the time is right)
• gives him his voice and personality so people can see him as the caring and intellectual space trucker he is instead of the soulless mute tyrant /bumbling dope Smash currently portrays him as

Smash's current portrayal really does feel like "Olimar at home" and he feels half baked ever since his Pikmin count got axed. I really really want him to get a rework.

Coming from a huge Pikmin fan, I'm also actively hoping for Alph to be either separated into a different character or removed entirely. As it stands he only holds Olimar back from acting like himself, if they want to rework Olimar to have his personality then Alph needs to go because there's just no way they can coexist as skins of each other. The Smash team isn't even willing to fully commit anyways since Alph still uses the Hocotate ship in his Final Smash which is just really irritating to me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why does his f-smash have more range than Byleth's?

...Does it really?

I don't know about Wolf being this pinnacle of game design. He's a little too good at a little too many things. Great air speed, arguably best projectile in the game, reflector, long combos, insane frame data, very powerful smash attacks that also have little to no endlag, decent recovery... Sakurai presented him as a "high risk, high reward" character and that's just not what he is at all. Give him some nerfs and he's good to go, but I'd like it more for his kit to be reworked and actually lean into the "risk" part of the equation. Unpopular opinion, but he's very frustrating to play against and kinda boring to play as since he's just so plain. Giving him some spice wouldn't hurt.

I'm not opposed to minor changes, since that's necessary for new engines, but since Wolf is one of my favorite Smash characters, I do hope that if the devs refocus to make him actually high risk/high reward they don't raise his skill floor. I really like that he's the Star Fox character that normal people can play. Also he's just so cool.

In my opinion, the fundamental problem with Shulk is that he shouldn't have been the stat manipulation character. 1) It's been a long time since I've played Xenoblade 1, but I don't remember him actually playing like that?

Shulk is mainly a single-target glass cannon, but the Monado gives him a ton of support utility. Specifically, Enchant is the only way most of your party can hit Mechon for most of the game, Purge shuts down absolutely absurd passive abilities, and Speed and Shield stop party members from straight up dying to Vision attacks in a way that only Sharla can replicate, and even then it's not as consistant due to cooldowns (Reyn can taunt, but sometimes that just changes the Vision to him dying).

Considering that all of the early game Monado Arts other than Buster are the buffs, and that Monado Arts are what make Shulk unique, this direction makes perfect sense at face value.

He's one of those characters who's unique and fun to play but who's also never going to be particularly good in competitive Smash. I don't think that his air speed necessarily needs to be this bad, though. Same for his attacks, they don't all need to be as slow as they are. You probably could make him a little better just by tweaking some parameters.

Huh. This is the first I've heard of people liking Kind Dedede. Personally, he kinda feels like garbage to me, even casually. He's definitely more fun than he was in the previous game, but he still lacks any sort of oomph and I hate how slow his normals are. Maybe he's just not for me? I dunno. I do feel like his normals should be a lot more commanding though, since that's how Kirby bosses opperate.

More than that though, they should figure out a way to make his kit a little more welcoming to a new player. Figuring out how to play Banjo is hard, and I'm not sure that was intentional.

I think that's their main flaw: They look like an easy pick-up-and-play character, but really aren't. I don't have any gripes about them otherwise.

Coming from a huge Pikmin fan, I'm also actively hoping for Alph to be either separated into a different character or removed entirely. As it stands he only holds Olimar back from acting like himself, if they want to rework Olimar to have his personality then Alph needs to go because there's just no way they can coexist as skins of each other. The Smash team isn't even willing to fully commit anyways since Alph still uses the Hocotate ship in his Final Smash which is just really irritating to me.

If they give him back Pikmin Chain, I could see them making Alph an Echo Fighter with Rock and Winged Pikmin in the rotation instead of Purple and White.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

We might still have Toon Link and/or Young Link

If I had to choose between them, I imagine Toon Link would be the one to come back, considering he’s been in every game since his debut while Young Link was missing for 17 years after Melee.

Part of this is probably because of Toon Link, but yeah, Toon Link hasn’t missed a game since debut yet, so I assume he’d come back between the two, which is why I put Young Link alongside Pichu in the “fat chance” club lol

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Darth...

You okay?

Not trying to defend him but as someone with 0 close by friends I can relate lol. I only have online friends where we play online by discord. I don’t think the idea of having no close by friends in real life is that rare in this day and age. Where I live in Florida most people aren’t into video games in the first place so hard to get close by friends anyway too.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh yeah, one of the things that I forgot about when talking about Pichu is that my criticisms only apply to competitive play. In more casual environments, he is very different from Pichu because his higher damage actually makes him easier to play than Pikachu, and that I think is very valuable.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Yes.
Still think it makes more sense as a MP mode.
Yes.

It will be a MP mode. Improved as in Player Interaction + Online

More Bosses, yes. But also more variety in objectives for Spirit Battles, like Events in older games.

Events honestly got too gimmicky in terms of objectives. I say the variety of conditions should based more on the rules and items of regular smash like Time, Coin, Horde Smash, Squad Strike, Assists, Stage Morph etc

i.e Moneybags Spirits would have the same conditions as Coin Smash

Spirits featuring multiple people would result in a Squad-Strike match

Assist Spirits would have you fight the actual Assist Trophies themselves instead of a colored fighter

Have some Palutena Guidance-type dialog throughout matches

 

[smashkirby]

On the topic of more obscure characters joining in, I don't see why it can't be more of a thing tbh.

Because there's a certain other crossover fighting game franchise that's well known for doing exactly that, and it's usually regarded as one of the coolest things about the series.

Spoiler

Obviously the big hitters will be what takes priority, but there's certainly room for some of the weirdos, too. And, I mean, people get pissed at every character announcement anyways, you might as well just have some fun with it.

My thoughts exactly. Heck, this and Smash Bros. are why I have such a deep fondness for retro/obscure/niche/'weirdo' characters in crossover games, as well as their own games. Heck, I'm a fan of folks like Jin Saotome, Captain Commando, Saki Omokane, Michelle Heart, SonSon and the like because of their appearances in these games.

With that said, I sincerely hope the next Smash Bros. returns to look at those characters as potential choices for playable characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My thoughts exactly. Heck, this and Smash Bros. are why I have such a deep fondness for retro/obscure/niche/'weirdo' characters in crossover games, as well as their own games. Heck, I'm a fan of folks like Jin Saotome, Captain Commando, Saki Omokane, Michelle Heart, SonSon and the like because of their appearances in these games.

With that said, I sincerely hope the next Smash Bros. returns to look at those characters as potential choices for playable characters.

I agree with this as well. Celebrating all of the cool ideas from franchises that took off is nice and important, but like, nerds of any fandom love to celebrate all the cool ideas from franchises that didn't as well. Why should Super Smash Bros. be any different?