Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dukefire]

Yeah, that feels much more like a "you can't please everyone" sort of thing. Mewtwo especially had FAR more people supporting his inclusion at the time than being against it.

Smash Bros speculation is always a wild ride that can go sideways at any moment. Which is also why Smashboards allows conversions like this to occur with moderation.

If you bank all your hopes and wishes into one character, the disappointment is harder compared to those that have made various choices. If that said character doesn't appear at the end of DLC or revealed as a Costume, Spirit/trophy, or Assist Trophy

 

[CannonStreak]

Gengar84 brought up the Subspace Emissary, I just had a thought...

Now, imagine this; what if they brought back Everyone is Here and did a Subspace Emissary like Adventure Mode with all the characters in the base game having a role in it. That would be something of total hell for the developers, wouldn't it?

EDIT: I mean, Subspace did take a lot of development time and took away some focus that could have made multiplayer for Brawl better, did it not? Something like that? Just like how bringing everyone back in Ultimate took some time away from making more content like single player content, some of which had to be brought into the game via update?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

...would now be a good time to say that if I had to have another Final Fantasy character, I'd take Barret over Tifa?

Not really scathing, Gameplay-wise Barret is lot more interesting than Tifa who's just another Brawler. Personally I rather have Black Mage as the next rep for FF
or if it has to really be another FF7 then Vincent or Cait Sith. I prefer Vin but i think latter style of fighting would really fit Smash's chaotic nature

Alright, how's this: how would you guys feel if Astro Bot was the Sony Smash rep? Alt costumes included, if you so choose.

Alright i guess but would be unfortunate for Astro to be shoe-in due to recent bias over reps like Sackboy honestly.

Guy has been shelved

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Gengar84]

Gengar84 brought up the Subspace Emissary, I just had a thought...

Now, imagine this; what if they brought back Everyone is Here and did a Subspace Emissary like Adventure Mode with all the characters in the base game having a role in it. That would be something of total hell for the developers, wouldn't it?

EDIT: I mean, Subspace did take a lot of development time and took away some focus that could have made multiplayer for Brawl better, did it not? Something like that? Just like how bringing everyone back in Ultimate took some time away from making more content like single player content, some of which had to be brought into the game via update?

I think the best way to do another Subspace Emissary story is to take inspiration from the Dissidia games. Basically, there was a team of heroes led by a goddess named Cosmos and a team of villains led by a demon named Chaos. It was an extremely simple premise but it worked well for a huge crossover. I think Palutena and Hades are the perfect stand ins for Cosmos and Chaos. For this to work optimally, we need to up the count of playable villains but I think Smash could use more villains regardless. I’d like there to be a little more depth to the story than just that basic premise but I think it works well as a starting point.

I’d love if the platforming stages and enemies took a bit more direct inspiration from existing games to play into the crossover aspect. You can still have some original Smash worlds towards the end of the adventure and enemies sprinkled throughout like they do in the Kingdom Hearts games.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think the best way to do another Subspace Emissary story is to take inspiration from the Dissidia games. Basically, there was a team of heroes led by a goddess named Cosmos and a team of villains led by a demon named Chaos. It was an extremely simple premise but it worked well for a huge crossover. I think Palutena and Hades are the perfect stand ins for Cosmos and Chaos.

I’d like there to be a little more depth to the story than just that basic premise but I think it works well as a starting point. I’d love if the platforming stages and enemies took a bit more direct inspiration from existing games to play into the crossover aspect. You can still have some original Smash worlds towards the end of the adventure and enemies sprinkled throughout like they do in the Kingdom Hearts games.

Very interesting thoughts, Gengar84! I never played Dissidia, but that sounds interesting so much! I think that your idea could work very well. I also agree on how you think (or would love) the platforming stages should be done, too.

 

[Oracle Link]

My Ideal Smash Roster
no roster limit
Bold are my most wanted characters

Im gonna do that too!
Im gonna steal your basic work and change/ Add on top of it!

Spoiler: Smash

Mario:
Toad
Mario Spinoffs:
King Boo, Captain Syrup, Paper Mario, Geno
Dixie
ZELDA:
LINK (all adult versions) ZELDA (all Adult VERSIONS)(TOTK)(OOT) ,Impa (Skyward Sword),
LINK (SMALL) < TOON and TOY sharing a roster slot!, Midna, Skullkid and Octorok
Raven Baek METROID
Morpho Knight (Meta Knight Echo)Bandana Waddle Dee, Dark Matter, Magolor

GIOVANNI (ALOLAN SNOBILKAT, KRAMSHEF and NIDOKING)
PORKY, GYIYG (mewtwo echo)


( alt) Lyn

(Classic Design and Dark as Alts)

EGGMAN


Tom Nook
(Has Armours based on other Megamen)

Mii Spellcaster, Feral Mii

Noah/Mio

SAGAT
< Both more based on the original FF7 and less on Remake/ Compilation, Also Black Mage

Dj Octavio


(all 4 return),





Isaac/ Matthew
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
SPYRO
Dante
Master Chief
Shovel Knight
UNDERTALE:
The Human, Flowey, The Fun Gang/Susie

 

[Gengar84]

Im gonna do that too!
Im gonna steal your basic work and change/ Add on top of it!

Spoiler: Smash

Mario:
Toad
Mario Spinoffs:
King Boo, Captain Syrup, Paper Mario, Geno
Dixie
ZELDA:
LINK (all adult versions) ZELDA (all Adult VERSIONS)(TOTK)(OOT) ,Impa (Skyward Sword),
LINK (SMALL) < TOON and TOY sharing a roster slot!, Midna, Skullkid and Octorok
Raven Baek METROID
Morpho Knight (Meta Knight Echo)Bandana Waddle Dee, Dark Matter, Magolor

GIOVANNI (ALOLAN SNOBILKAT, KRAMSHEF and NIDOKING)
PORKY, GYIYG (mewtwo echo)


( alt) Lyn

(Classic Design and Dark as Alts)

EGGMAN


Tom Nook
(Has Armours based on other Megamen)

Mii Spellcaster, Feral Mii

Noah/Mio

SAGAT
< Both more based on the original FF7 and less on Remake/ Compilation, Also Black Mage

Dj Octavio


(all 4 return),





Isaac/ Matthew
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
SPYRO
Dante
Master Chief
Shovel Knight
UNDERTALE:
The Human, Flowey, The Fun Gang/Susie

What is a Snobilkat and a Kramshef?

 

[fogbadge]

What is a Snobilkat and a Kramshef?

according to google persian and honchkrow

 

[Gengar84]

according to google persian and honchkrow

That makes sense. I didn’t know Giovanni had a Honchkrow but it fits him flavorfully. I wasn’t aware he had an Alolan Persian either but I know the original version is his main Pokemon. These would all be pretty cool but Nidoking would be awesome.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That makes sense. I didn’t know Giovanni had a Honchkrow but it fits him flavorfully. I wasn’t aware he had an Alolan Persian either but I know the original version is his main Pokemon. These would all be pretty cool but Nidoking would be awesome.

I don't think Giovanni has either Alolan Persian or Honchkrow.

If you're giving Giovanni Persian, it better be the OG Kanto one.

EDIT: Apparently he has a Honchkrow in the HGSS event but that's something most players never see.

He's never had an Alolan Persian.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I wasn’t aware he had an Alolan Persian either

That's because he was never shown with one.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, that feels much more like a "you can't please everyone" sort of thing. Mewtwo especially had FAR more people supporting his inclusion at the time than being against it.

Mewtwo had as much support as Mega Man before reveal. He was bigger than both Ridley and K.Rool even. This is the very reason arguments for cutting Mewtwo are just ignorant.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mewtwo had as much support as Mega Man before reveal. He was bigger than both Ridley and K.Rool even. This is the very reason arguments for cutting Mewtwo are just ignorant.

Given his track record:

• Planned for Super Smash Bros., but dropped during development.
• Added in Melee.
• Planned for Brawl, but dropped due to time constraints. One of two of the seven that actually had work done on them.
• Planned for SSB4, but missed the due date. However, he was the first character added back in as DLC, and came out at around the time of the Wii U version's release.
• Everyone is Here, including Mewtwo.

I'd say his spot on the roster is guaranteed, but whether or not he'll be finished in time for base is a question mark because he seems to be the lowest priority Pokémon character just about every time. I wonder if he'll end up being the series's Akuma; someone who's in every game, but almost all of his appearances are as DLC.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

there was a team of heroes led by a goddess named Cosmos and a team of villains led by a demon named Chaos. It was an extremely simple premise but it worked well for a huge crossover. I think Palutena and Hades are the perfect stand ins for Cosmos and Chaos. For this to work optimally, we need to up the count of playable villains but I think Smash could use more villains regardless.

Interesting premise. I would replace Hades with Ganondorf to better balance things personally + Fits better thematic with Ganondorf being lineage of dark forces who have defied the Gods from Deimse.

In terms of villians, I think selections from Ultimate is fine. Maybe add in a few enemies characters like Piranha Plant, Rival Octolings, Heartless and maybe having eniemes from Subspace and Smash Run return.

How would play it though? not to familiar with Dissida

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of monster taming games, I’m currently towards the end of a playthrough of Digimon: Hacker’s Memory. The game has a cool story, good music, and cool monster designs but the dungeons are a bit repetitive. I love the battle system though. I think it’s an exact copy of FFX’s system.

Anyway, does anyone think any Digimon has a chance other than Agumon? I really like a lot of Digimon designs but I’ve never been a big fan of Agumon. As I understand, it’s essentially Digimon’s Pikachu so it’s probably the favorite. Some of my favorites are Ogremon, Titamon, Meramon, Grankabuterimon, Tyrant Kabuterimon, Gaiomon, and Beezelmon. No clue if any of those are popular enough for consideration though.

Interesting premise. I would replace Hades with Ganondorf to better balance things personally + Fits better thematic with Ganondorf being lineage of dark forces who have defied the Gods from Deimse.

In terms of villians, I think selections from Ultimate is fine. Maybe add in a few enemies characters like Piranha Plant, Rival Octolings, Heartless and maybe having eniemes from Subspace and Smash Run return.

How would play it though? not to familiar with Dissida

Dissidia is a 3D arena fighter where characters can fly around the stage. It’s actually a lot of fun. It kind of reminds me of those older Dragon Ball Z fighting games.

 

[Opossum]

Speaking of monster taming games, I’m currently towards the end of a playthrough of Digimon: Hacker’s Memory. The game has a cool story, good music, and cool monster designs but the dungeons are a bit repetitive. I love the battle system though. I think it’s an exact copy of FFX’s system.

Anyway, does anyone think any Digimon has a chance other than Agumon? I really like a lot of Digimon designs but I’ve never been a big fan of Agumon. As I understand, it’s essentially Digimon’s Pikachu so it’s probably the favorite. Some of my favorites are Ogremon, Titamon, Meramon, Grankabuterimon, Tyrant Kabuterimon, Gaiomon, and Beezelmon. No clue if any of those are popular enough for consideration though.

If I had my pick, I'd have one of the following lines in, in descending order of likeliness:

Patamon > Angemon > MagnaAngemon > Seraphimon
Gomamon > Ikkakumon > Zudomon > Vikemon
Candlemon > Wizardmon > Mistymon > MedievalGallantmon

They don't really have a shot outside of maybe Patamon's line, but still.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random Smash Ideas: Mega Man now has 2 idle stances. The first and most common is what he has now: The upright posture from the 8-bit style games. If left idle for a little bit, he'll do a tweaked version of the stretching animation from Mega Man 8, settling into his idle pose from the non-8-bit style games (7, 8, & Bass, & Bass: Challenger from the Future, and 11). If the player continues to do nothing, Mega Man will do an animation that's a mix of his looking around animations from Mega Man 7 and 11, settling back into his first idle pose.

 

[fogbadge]

Speaking of monster taming games, I’m currently towards the end of a playthrough of Digimon: Hacker’s Memory. The game has a cool story, good music, and cool monster designs but the dungeons are a bit repetitive. I love the battle system though. I think it’s an exact copy of FFX’s system.

Anyway, does anyone think any Digimon has a chance other than Agumon? I really like a lot of Digimon designs but I’ve never been a big fan of Agumon. As I understand, it’s essentially Digimon’s Pikachu so it’s probably the favorite. Some of my favorites are Ogremon, Titamon, Meramon, Grankabuterimon, Tyrant Kabuterimon, Gaiomon, and Beezelmon. No clue if any of those are popular enough for consideration though.


Dissidia is a 3D arena fighter where characters can fly around the stage. It’s actually a lot of fun. It kind of reminds me of those older Dragon Ball Z fighting games.

it’s difficult to judge as it’s getting harder to keep track of who debuted in what. most of the ones I could see getting in over Agumon were anime debuts. there are plenty who are popular enough I would argue that they had a reasonable chance for an additional rep had digimon gotten in

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of monster taming games, I’m currently towards the end of a playthrough of Digimon: Hacker’s Memory. The game has a cool story, good music, and cool monster designs but the dungeons are a bit repetitive. I love the battle system though. I think it’s an exact copy of FFX’s system.

Anyway, does anyone think any Digimon has a chance other than Agumon? I really like a lot of Digimon designs but I’ve never been a big fan of Agumon. As I understand, it’s essentially Digimon’s Pikachu so it’s probably the favorite. Some of my favorites are Ogremon, Titamon, Meramon, Grankabuterimon, Tyrant Kabuterimon, Gaiomon, and Beezelmon. No clue if any of those are popular enough for consideration though.

Agumon I think is ideal because not only is he the mascot, but his body shape doesn't change until you hit Wargreymon, so you could use Digivolution as a mechanic with him much more easily, potentially even without having to deal with making three separate characters for the idea. Wargreymon could then be a Final Smash.

If you want my fully biased pick though, it's the Gaomon line, to the shock of nobody at all.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Anyway, does anyone think any Digimon has a chance other than Agumon? I really like a lot of Digimon designs but I’ve never been a big fan of Agumon. As I understand, it’s essentially Digimon’s Pikachu so it’s probably the favorite. Some of my favorites are Ogremon, Titamon, Meramon, Grankabuterimon, Tyrant Kabuterimon, Gaiomon, and Beezelmon. No clue if any of those are popular enough for consideration though.

If we go by popularity and popularity alone, it's Omnimon, full stop.
The thing tops polls and whenever it doesn't it's because people are trying to MAKE someone else win since people are sick of Omnimon winning. An example of one poll having Gallantmon win instead since Gallantmon typically is in the Top 3 overall anyway along Omnimon and WarGreymon.

Omnimon is also the Charizard of the franchise in the sense it's featured as much as possible for better or worse.

Through research, I've concluded the likely candidates to be:

-Agumon and/or WarGreymon
-Omnimon
-Beelzemon (with or without Impmon, but more likely solo)

With honorable mentions that are harder sells:

-Guilmon and/or Gallantmon
-Gatomon and/or Angewomon
-Machinedramon (more likely as a boss more than a fighter)

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've always thought The Avatar would be a cool fitting pick.

I'd rather have Lord British.

I'm biased towards Tifa

So am I. But not for Smash.

As much as I prefer Subspace Emissary to World of Light, the latter was still much better than Smash Run in my opinion.

Smash Run is a fun mode, but it's not a substitute for a Story mode.

Now, imagine this; what if they brought back Everyone is Here and did a Subspace Emissary like Adventure Mode with all the characters in the base game having a role in it. That would be something of total hell for the developers, wouldn't it?

It'd be hell for the players as well. Cause SSE sucks.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Random Smash Ideas: Mega Man now has 2 idle stances. The first and most common is what he has now: The upright posture from the 8-bit style games. If left idle for a little bit, he'll do a tweaked version of the stretching animation from Mega Man 8, settling into his idle pose from the non-8-bit style games (7, 8, & Bass, & Bass: Challenger from the Future, and 11). If the player continues to do nothing, Mega Man will do an animation that's a mix of his looking around animations from Mega Man 7 and 11, settling back into his first idle pose.

I'm still upset for no MM11 content, not even in the Mega Man-themed Spirit Event.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ya'know, I do tend to hate "lol they no in" jokes, but if they did a Digimon character trailer where someone kills Leomon in their pursuit of the smash invite...that would actually be pretty freaking funny.

 

[fogbadge]

If we go by popularity and popularity alone, it's Omnimon, full stop.
The thing tops polls and whenever it doesn't it's because people are trying to MAKE someone else win since people are sick of Omnimon winning. An example of one poll having Gallantmon win instead since Gallantmon typically is in the Top 3 overall anyway along Omnimon and WarGreymon.

Omnimon is also the Charizard of the franchise in the sense it's featured as much as possible for better or worse.

Through research, I've concluded the likely candidates to be:

-Agumon and/or WarGreymon
-Omnimon
-Beelzemon (with or without Impmon, but more likely solo)

With honorable mentions that are harder sells:

-Guilmon and/or Gallantmon
-Gatomon and/or Angewomon
-Machinedramon (more likely as a boss more than a fighter)

not to mention he keeps getting new forms like charizard

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Ya'know, I do tend to hate "lol they no in" jokes, but if they did a Digimon character trailer where someone kills Leomon in their pursuit of the smash invite...that would actually be pretty freaking funny.

Please no. I've seen Leomon die enough times already.

 

[Gengar84]

So for anyone that’s played either Cyber Sleuth or Hacker’s Memory and have seen any of the Digimon anime, do any of them match the more mature themes of those games or all they all closer to the Pokemon anime and aimed at a younger audience? I still enjoy Pokemon Horizons enough but some of the things in it can get kind of annoying like Roy and Fuecoco.

 

[fogbadge]

So for anyone that’s played either Cyber Sleuth or Hacker’s Memory and have seen any of the Digimon anime, do any of them match the more mature themes of those games or all they all closer to the Pokemon anime and aimed at a younger audience? I still enjoy Pokemon Horizons enough but some of the things in it can get kind of annoying like Roy and Fuecoco.

depends on how you would define mature I suppose. There a definitely common themes but they’re handled differently I think

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

So for anyone that’s played either Cyber Sleuth or Hacker’s Memory and have seen any of the Digimon anime, do any of them match the more mature themes of those games or all they all closer to the Pokemon anime and aimed at a younger audience? I still enjoy Pokemon Horizons enough but some of the things in it can get kind of annoying like Roy and Fuecoco.

The games are aimed at an older audience, so don't really expect the anime to get like those except possibly Tamers. Not including the more recent movies that are aimed at older fans of the classic anime.

That being said, it's definitely not as lighthearted as the Pokémon anime as there are real stakes involved and it can tackle serious real life issues and traumas.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So for anyone that’s played either Cyber Sleuth or Hacker’s Memory and have seen any of the Digimon anime, do any of them match the more mature themes of those games or all they all closer to the Pokemon anime and aimed at a younger audience? I still enjoy Pokemon Horizons enough but some of the things in it can get kind of annoying like Roy and Fuecoco.

From what I remember: With the first story, season 1 was fairly light and seasons 2 and 3 had some dark elements with the former had some weird eldritch stuff going on with Kairi (though they didn't go through with it and what they did do was censored) and the latter had a character coming to terms with the fact that Digimon were indeed alive and he was being evil this whole time. The card tamers season became extremely dark near the end.

I've also heard that there's a horror focused series, though I've seen accounts on some episodes being toothless while others are probably the most disturbing moments in the entire series, so it might be a bit hit or miss.

I'm not super in touch with the Digimon community, as the series was more of a passing interest from me, but from what I've heard, the darkest season is probably still card tamers. From personal experience, the first series and the card tamers series were both pretty darn good. The series with Shoutmon annoyed me greatly after viewing the other two, though whether or not this was due to me expecting the previous series tone, because it was hitting a younger demographic than the other two, or because it was actually bad I don't know.

 

[SPEN18]

But... something what?
Aside from more newcomers in the place of old characters which is fair.

Smash 4 didn't have the task of bringing everyone back and it doesn't really have much more going on than Ultimate. In fact it actually has less content and modes overall.

Well, yes, new characters and stages would be up there. So if you're willing to concede that we could have had more of that in place of some of the vets, then there ya go. It's just that when I've had these arguments before, people have tried to fight me by arguing that somehow the vets were so easy to make in comparison to newcomers that even cutting a large swath of them wasn't gonna get us another newcomer. Which I don't agree with, as even vets in the idealized 4-to-Ult transition had a ton of work put into them. But I've been intentionally vague to avoid getting too far into the weeds with specifics like "how many vets and/or other contents would you have to cut to get a newcomer / new stage" and whatnot.

And yes, Smash 4 had much less content than Ult, but there are clear reasons for that. Specifically that much more had to be reworked or even built from scratch in comparison to Ult, simply because of the architectures of the systems involved, as well as the factor of not having as much carryover in personnel (which has been confirmed by Sakurai). Not to mention the difficulties caused by simultaneously working on the 3DS. What was possible for Smash 4 was not at all the same as what was possible for Ult, because of the unique circumstances which conspired to make Ult's content base even possible to begin with. So just comparing the total amount of content in 4 vs. that in Ult, without looking at those circumstances involved, doesn't say anything about advantages or disadvantages of doing EiH. If anything, I could try to argue that attempting EiH in Smash 4 would've almost certainly resulted in the loss of, just for starters, characters like Shulk and Bowser Jr. Hopefully it's pretty straightforward that not holding to EiH and cutting off some characters is going to make it easier to include more new stuff.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

This is an excellent point that I haven’t seen brought up very often. As much as I prefer Subspace Emissary to World of Light, the latter was still much better than Smash Run in my opinion. Despite its limitations, I feel like Ultimate’s Stage Builder was a huge improvement over Smash 4’s as well. I personally feel like Smash 4 was the low point in the series and is the only one that’s almost completely outclassed by its successor. Ultimate managed to bring back every character as well as giving us extra game modes. Still nothing compared to Melee’s and Brawl’s modes but a step up from 4’s.

For real. I don't know about Smash 3DS since I didn't have it, but Smash Wii U single player was downright depressing. I'll almost take Smash 64's over it since what little it has is fun at least.

World of Light might not be the best single player mode of all time, but going back to actually designed encounters with it and Ultimate's Classic Mode was a breath of fresh air.

 

[Perkilator]

My ideal Adventure Mode is still a roguelike that takes elements from Melee’s Adventure Mode, Subspace, Smash Run and World of Light.

 

[Gengar84]

For real. I don't know about Smash 3DS since I didn't have it, but Smash Wii U single player was downright depressing. I'll almost take Smash 64's over it since what little it has is fun at least.

World of Light might not be the best single player mode of all time, but going back to actually designed encounters with it and Ultimate's Classic Mode was a breath of fresh air.

There’s no almost for me regarding Smash 64. I definitely preferred 64’s modes to Smash for Wii U’s. Break the Targets, Race to the Finish, and Board the Platforms were all a lot of fun. Melee was pretty much a strict upgrade from 64 regarding modes but I did miss Board the Platforms. I never played much of the 3DS game but I’ve heard Smash Run was fun. I misspoke earlier and I meant to say Smash Tour wasn’t great.

 

[CannonStreak]

My ideal Adventure Mode is still a roguelike that takes elements from Melee’s Adventure Mode, Subspace, Smash Run and World of Light.

I would like that too, actually! I would love to see an Adventure Mode in the way you just subscribed.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Speaking of monster taming games, I’m currently towards the end of a playthrough of Digimon: Hacker’s Memory. The game has a cool story, good music, and cool monster designs but the dungeons are a bit repetitive. I love the battle system though. I think it’s an exact copy of FFX’s system.

Anyway, does anyone think any Digimon has a chance other than Agumon? I really like a lot of Digimon designs but I’ve never been a big fan of Agumon. As I understand, it’s essentially Digimon’s Pikachu so it’s probably the favorite. Some of my favorites are Ogremon, Titamon, Meramon, Grankabuterimon, Tyrant Kabuterimon, Gaiomon, and Beezelmon. No clue if any of those are popular enough for consideration though.


Dissidia is a 3D arena fighter where characters can fly around the stage. It’s actually a lot of fun. It kind of reminds me of those older Dragon Ball Z fighting games.

Agumon is the series mascot so realistically if any Digimon joins smash its him.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Well, yes, new characters and stages would be up there. So if you're willing to concede that we could have had more of that in place of some of the vets, then there ya go. It's just that when I've had these arguments before, people have tried to fight me by arguing that somehow the vets were so easy to make in comparison to newcomers that even cutting a large swath of them wasn't gonna get us another newcomer. Which I don't agree with, as even vets in the idealized 4-to-Ult transition had a ton of work put into them. But I've been intentionally vague to avoid getting too far into the weeds with specifics like "how many vets and/or other contents would you have to cut to get a newcomer / new stage" and whatnot.

The small amount of new stages I don't think has anything to do with the amount of veteran characters. If anything, it's more likely it's due to the team bringing back 90+ old stages which obviously required a ton of work since aside from the Smash Wii U stages they all come from the pre-HD era.
Even the Melee and Brawl stages that were featured in Wii U got a dramatic increase in graphical quality in Ultimate. Just look at Halberd or Port Town, in Smash U they're just ported from Brawl while in Ultimate they're fully retextured and re-lightened.

And yeah of course developing the veterans also takes time, but this boils down to roster complaints. They didn't "sacrifice" anything. They opted to include X and Y characters instead of A and B. Most of those X and Y characters happened to be veterans. That's it.
How much you appreciate the choice is up to personal taste.

For example:

If anything, I could try to argue that attempting EiH in Smash 4 would've almost certainly resulted in the loss of, just for starters, characters like Shulk and Bowser Jr.

Shulk and Bowser Jr. for my personal taste are two of the most zzzzzz characters in series history, I would have taken Lucas and Roy in the base game over them any day of the week.

 

[Gengar84]

The small amount of new stages I don't think has anything to do with the amount of veteran characters. If anything, it's more likely it's due to the team bringing back 90+ old stages which obviously required a ton of work since aside from the Smash Wii U stages they all come from the pre-HD era.
Even the Melee and Brawl stages that were featured in Wii U got a dramatic increase in graphical quality in Ultimate. Just look at Halberd or Port Town, in Smash U they're just ported from Brawl while in Ultimate they're fully retextured and re-lightened.

And yeah of course developing the veterans also takes time, but this boils down to roster complaints. They didn't "sacrifice" anything. They opted to include X and Y characters instead of A and B. Most of those X and Y characters happened to be veterans. That's it.
How much you appreciate the choice is up to personal taste.

For example:

Shulk and Bowser Jr. for my personal taste are two of the most zzzzzz characters in series history, I would have taken Lucas and Roy in the base game over them any day of the week.

Xenoblade Chronicles is among my favorite games ever but I can understand how Shulk might not appeal to someone not familiar with the game. Monolith Soft has a history of weird looking character designs. My least favorites being pretty much everyone in Baiten Kaitos. Shulk’s outfit is a bit strange but I like him as a character. Smash kind of gave Shulk Reyn’s personality and made him way more goofy than he actually was in his own game.

I never cared much for Bowser Jr. either but I’ve always liked the Koopalings/Koopa Kids so I’m happy with him being in Smash for that reason. Jr. alone is pretty unexciting to me personally.

 

[SPEN18]

The small amount of new stages I don't think has anything to do with the amount of veteran characters. If anything, it's more likely it's due to the team bringing back 90+ old stages which obviously required a ton of work since aside from the Smash Wii U stages they all come from the pre-HD era.
Even the Melee and Brawl stages that were featured in Wii U got a dramatic increase in graphical quality in Ultimate. Just look at Halberd or Port Town, in Smash U they're just ported from Brawl while in Ultimate they're fully retextured and re-lightened.

Well, if we're going to go there, I also would've been more than fine with fewer older stages in exchange for more new stages. Especially if you're agreeing that the old stages took a ton of work, mitigating the possible downside of newer stages potentially being harder to create. I also would've been fine with cutting some veterans in exchange for those new stages if necessary, perhaps a more controversial take than the former.
But anyway, the question is whether resources freed up by cutting vets would've/could've been directed towards stages. Well, I think it's easily possible, and nothing is truly independent of anything else given that they're working under budget and time constraints. But, regardless, the overall point is that cutting some vets frees up a ton of resources, and that manpower and budget could've easily gone into something else, whether that be characters, stages, or besides.

And yeah of course developing the veterans also takes time, but this boils down to roster complaints. They didn't "sacrifice" anything. They opted to include X and Y characters instead of A and B. Most of those X and Y characters happened to be veterans. That's it.
How much you appreciate the choice is up to personal taste.

Yes, they chose to include more veterans instead of more new stuff. That's exactly what I've been saying, and exactly what I mean when I say they made sacrifices in other areas to do EiH. There are upsides and downsides to each option, and EiH isn't automatically superior in all facets.

Shulk and Bowser Jr. for my personal taste are two of the most zzzzzz characters in series history, I would have taken Lucas and Roy in the base game over them any day of the week.

Well, that's up to you as to who you'd personally prefer. However, by any objective measure I think Shulk and Jr., a highly unique brand new franchise rep and an incredibly popular Mario staple, win out handily in overall appeal and game/roster quality over two JP-exclusive clones...but that's besides the point, because it would never be that two-for-two swap anyway. The point is only that you'd have to make major concessions with the newcomer roster and beyond in order to achieve EiH in the Smash 4 scenario, and I really can't fathom that doing so would've resulted in a better overall product in that case.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Shulk and Bowser Jr. for my personal taste are two of the most zzzzzz characters in series history

man if I had a nickel for every SmashBoards user insistent on EIH again that's one who shouldn't want it

 

[SharkLord]

EDIT: I mean, Subspace did take a lot of development time and took away some focus that could have made multiplayer for Brawl better, did it not? Something like that? Just like how bringing everyone back in Ultimate took some time away from making more content like single player content, some of which had to be brought into the game via update?

Yeah, Sakurai's said that Subspace Emissary was basically like developing an entire second game concurrently with Brawl. As cool as it is to have a story mode where the characters interact, it would definitely take a big chunk out of development.