Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Stratos]

As much as we would like that, it's already been confirmed that we'll probably never get another one.

Too bad.

 

[Ivander]

Man, seeing this video makes me realize just how lame a lot of Final Smashes were made in Ultimate, both veterans and newcomers.

I like how with some of them, despite hitting all 7 characters, only one or three characters get the full beatdown. Gives off that "Why am I the one getting beat up in particular?" vibe that some comedy routines do.

 

[Diddy Kong]

As much as we would like that, it's already been confirmed that we'll probably never get another one.

Confirmed and probably in the same sentence, that's a bit confusing to me... Where'd you read this ?

Maybe they're just that confident in their ballot results that they know they can always use it for whatever purposes. Or they simply think they'll never need the same amount of playable characters as Ultimate had.

 

[dream1ng]

There have already been three official Smash polls/ballots. I would imagine one day there will be another. The series is going to continue, and the dev team seems to value the input the results bring, even if it does mean riling up an already very... "excitable" fanbase.

I just hope next time they can be a bit more transparent about their true intentions for the results. Or at least if not be transparent, be less deceptive.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is deceptive the right word ? I think they where indeed a bit dishonest about the Smash 4 DLC, but with Ultimate they definitely where not. If anything, the ballot was mostly intended for Ultimate anyway.

 

[Shroob]

Is deceptive the right word ? I think they where indeed a bit dishonest about the Smash 4 DLC, but with Ultimate they definitely where not. If anything, the ballot was mostly intended for Ultimate anyway.

Considering that there was a sizeable amount of people who fell into the camp of "Bayonetta ACTUALLY won the ballot", while I'd perhaps not say dishonest, they weren't very transparent at all. Yes, there 100% was the disclaimer on the page itself that the data could be used in the future, but that was never brought up by them, you had to find and read that yourself.



Frankly, I'm glad they finally just, came clean after all this time. The fact that data for Bayo had already been found a mere 2 weeks after the ballot went live was definitely sus.

 

[dream1ng]

Is deceptive the right word ? I think they where indeed a bit dishonest about the Smash 4 DLC, but with Ultimate they definitely where not. If anything, the ballot was mostly intended for Ultimate anyway.

I would say they were rather deceptive, yes. Remember, now we know the purpose the ballot actually served, and have been the beneficiaries of it, but at the time we were lead to believe the ballot was primarily for Smash 4 DLC, and then we were given a character proclaimed as the ballot winner who had been selected prior to the ballot even becoming public.

 

[Ivander]

They mentioned in her reveal that Bayonetta wasn't the true Ballot Winner. Just the one who was the most realisable. It's not the most honest answer, but they weren't lying or calling her the definite Ballot winner.

Might as well replace "Ridley" with "Bayonetta was the winner who was the most realisable" and you get this image.

 

[Shroob]

They mentioned in her reveal that Bayonetta wasn't the true Ballot Winner. Just the one who was the most realisable. It's not the most honest answer, but they weren't lying or calling her the definite Ballot winner.

Might as well replace "Ridley" with "Bayonetta was the winner who was the most realisable" and you get this image.

I think part of the problem is you had people who were dead set on the idea that "No, she absolutely did win the ballot", and when the datamine was brought up, the idea that the ballot winner had been decided soo early into its life rubbed people the wrong way.

 

[dream1ng]

They mentioned in her reveal that Bayonetta wasn't the true Ballot Winner. Just the one who was the most realisable. It's not the most honest answer, but they weren't lying or calling her the definite Ballot winner.

Might as well replace "Ridley" with "Bayonetta was the winner who was the most realisable" and you get this image.

It's not about getting the most votes, since they never promised the character that would get the most votes would be included. It's about the fact that she was chosen prior to even releasing the ballot, which means the ballot results didn't get her in in the first place, which is the part that makes it dishonest.

 

[Ivander]

I think part of the problem is you had people who were dead set on the idea that "No, she absolutely did win the ballot", and when the datamine was brought up, the idea that the ballot winner had been decided soo early into its life rubbed people the wrong way.

It's not about getting the most votes, since they never promised the character that would get the most votes would be included. It's about the fact that she was chosen prior to even releasing the ballot, which means the ballot results didn't get her in in the first place, which is the part that makes it dishonest.

Where did the datamine even come from? Like if they were leaked, why didn't they get mentioned around those times? The only time I remember this coming up was like long after the characters came out.

And even then, the only reason to keep bringing it up is to "win the argument". Which is long past petty at this point.

 

[dream1ng]

Where did the datamine even come from? Like if they were leaked, why didn't they get mentioned around those times? The only time I remember this coming up was like long after the characters came out.

And even then, the only reason to keep bringing it up is to "win the argument". Which is petty at this point.

Both of these points obfuscate the issue though. Neither calling into question the legitimacy of the datamine or stating that talking about it is petty will change the timeline of events. It is what it is. Bayo was chosen pre-ballot and paraded as the winner because the true intent of the ballot was to help build Ultimate.

It's fortunate we didn't find that out until during Ultimate, because the character already faced enough backlash and claims of the ballot being fixed. Those claims didn't need substantiating back then, it would've got too messy.

And this is just part of Smash history. These are the facts, restating them has nothing to do with pettiness. I don't think anyone is still truly bent out of shape over it. The ballot eventually served its purpose, we got a handful of characters people really wanted, but initially it wasn't presented in a very accurate light.

 

[Shroob]

Where did the datamine even come from? Like if they were leaked, why didn't they get mentioned around those times? The only time I remember this coming up was like long after the characters came out.

And even then, the only reason to keep bringing it up is to "win the argument". Which is long past petty at this point.

The datamine happened 2 years after the game finished patching, that's why. People were ****ing around with older patches.


Afaik, no one could break the encryption on the files at the time, but once it was figured out, well, all hell broke loose.

 

[Ivander]

Both of these points obfuscate the issue though. Neither calling into question the legitimacy of the datamine or stating that talking about it is petty will change the timeline of events. It is what it is. Bayo was chosen pre-ballot and paraded as the winner because the true intent of the ballot was to help build Ultimate.

It's fortunate we didn't find that out until during Ultimate, because the character already faced enough backlash and claims of the ballot being fixed. Those claims didn't need substantiating back then, it would've got too messy.

And this is just part of Smash history. These are the facts, restating them has nothing to do with pettiness. I don't think anyone is still truly bent out of shape over it. The ballot eventually served its purpose, we got a handful of characters people really wanted, but initially it wasn't presented in a very accurate light.

First off, no it doesn't when Bayonetta could've been chosen when she was high on the Ballot and she stayed high. This isn't the Fire Emblem Heroes Ballot where we see the leading winners at the half-way point, tempts people to be chill-lax with the leading heroes, only for 3rd place suddenly take 1st or 2nd. And thank god since that'd be much more dreadful to be a part of compared to the FEH Ballots.

Two, what's often the first thing that is mentioned when talking about Bayonetta and the Ballot? "I'm glad that they came out clean and confirmed she wasn't the Ballot winner."/"It's nice to get some confirmation that she wasn't the winner."/etc. That's not caring about the honesty or dishonesty. That's caring about being "right". Which has all to do with pettiness. Especially when one, she was already confirmed to not be the true winner on her reveal and two, it's long been past and we have gotten alot of other characters from the Ballot already, like Sora, Banjo-Kazooie, Castlevania, Chrom, Dark Samus, etc.
Why does it need to be brought up anymore? The only reason it's been brought back up so far is when somebody is "glad" that Bayonetta wasn't the winner. That Nintendo was wrong about Bayonetta being the "Ballot winner". That they were wrong and now we're in the right. That's not re-stating them because it's the truth. That's re-stating them to "re-assure". That, in fact, has everything to do with pettiness.

The datamine happened 2 years after the game finished patching, that's why. People were ****ing around with older patches.


Afaik, no one could break the encryption on the files at the time, but once it was figured out, well, all hell broke loose.

Okay.....at this point, I wish it was left un-broken because it's done nothing but bring out the worst in people.

 

[Shroob]

First off, no it doesn't when Bayonetta could've been chosen when she was high on the Ballot and she stayed high. This isn't the Fire Emblem Heroes Ballot where we see the leading winners at the half-way point, tempts people to be chill-lax with the leading heroes, only for 3rd place suddenly take 1st or 2nd. And thank god since that'd be much more dreadful to be a part of compared to the FEH Ballots.

Two, what's often the first thing that is mentioned when talking about Bayonetta and the Ballot? "I'm glad that they came out clean and confirmed she wasn't the Ballot winner."/"It's nice to get some confirmation that she wasn't the winner."/etc. That's not caring about the honesty or dishonesty. That's caring about being "right". Which has all to do with pettiness. Especially when one, she was already confirmed to not be the true winner on her reveal and two, it's long been past and we have gotten alot of other characters from the Ballot already, like Sora, Banjo-Kazooie, Castlevania, Chrom, Dark Samus, etc.
Why does it need to be brought up anymore? The only reason it's been brought back up so far is when somebody is "glad" that Bayonetta wasn't the winner. That Nintendo was wrong about Bayonetta being the "Ballot winner". That they were wrong and now we're in the right. That's not re-stating them because it's the truth. That's re-stating them to "re-assure". That, in fact, has everything to do with pettiness.

Okay.....at this point, I wish it was left un-broken because it's done nothing but bring out the worst in people.

I mean, cat's out of the bag at this point.


Even without the datamine, Bayo was a contentious pick to begin with, not helped at all with her double-featuring with Corrin, and the years of debates whether she won or not were tiring, with one side convinced she didn't win, and other other convinced that she did 100% win.



For me? The reason I'm glad they came clean was because this debate was still going throughout Ultimate's life cycle, a debate that waged on for what, 5 ****ing years? Now? It's done and over with, no more arguing, we have all the evidence and pieces, we can shut up about it.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Honestly I don't think it's that crazy that Bayo was actually high in the ballot. The ballot voting started in early 2015 and what was Nintendo big first party title aside from Smash 4 in holiday 2014? It was Bayonetta 2. I'm pretty sure there was a lot of silent people (by silent I mean people who are not on forums) who voted for her because they liked her games. Keep in mind that Wii u didn't have a lot of games so there wasn't a lot of choices to vote for more recent characters (Splatoon actually released a month after the ballot start so if they decided Bayonetta after a few weeks Inkling wouldn't have that many votes).

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly I don't think it's that crazy that Bayo was actually high in the ballot. The ballot voting started in early 2015 and what was Nintendo big first party title aside from Smash 4 in holiday 2014? It was Bayonetta 2. I'm pretty sure there was a lot of silent people (by silent I mean people who are not on forums) who voted for her because they liked her games. Keep in mind that Wii u didn't have a lot of games so there wasn't a lot of choices to vote for more recent characters (Splatoon actually released a month after the ballot start so if they decided Bayonetta after a few weeks Inkling wouldn't have that many votes).

Yeah, I recall plenty of people getting on the "Bayonetta should be in Smash" bandwagon as soon as Bayonetta 2 was announced as a Wii U exclusive/Nintendo published title all the way back in 2012.

She was basically the first instance of "this third party character got a game on new Nintendo platform, they should be in Smash" that continued into Ultimate with Crash, Doomguy, Tracer, etc

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm pretty sure there was a lot of silent people (by silent I mean people who are not on forums) who voted for her because they liked her games. Keep in mind that Wii u didn't have a lot of games so there wasn't a lot of choices to vote for more recent characters (Splatoon actually released a month after the ballot start so if they decided Bayonetta after a few weeks Inkling wouldn't have that many votes).

If the silent majority was going to vote for a Wii U game, I'd think they'd lean more towards Inklings in the first place. Bayonetta is still a rather niche franchise even with the Smash Boost while Splatoon had several million fans right out of the gate.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

If the silent majority was going to vote for a Wii U game, I'd think they'd lean more towards Inklings in the first place. Bayonetta is still a rather niche franchise even with the Smash Boost while Splatoon had several million fans right out of the gate.

Yeah but like I said, Splatoon wasn't even released 2 weeks after the ballot start (it released around 6 weeks after) so if they indeed chose a "winner" after 2 weeks (considering the datamine), I'm pretty sure Bayonetta would have more votes at this specific point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Regardless, Bayonetta was just in the right time and place for a general addition. I feel it was "she did get votes on the ballot, and as she was already chosen, she's literally more realizable than the rest." Which is just more poorly said than some kind of lie. Top 5 in US and 1 in Europe? Not actually a lie either. She could've had that for a while. Sora is just 1 worldwide. Besides that, there's multiple winners anyway(Ridley, etc.), so overall, it's more poor communication than any actual lying.

 

[Chuderz]

Well the ballot's over and done with.

I voted for Cloud and Crash. I kind of wish I made the effort to vote for Sceptile (by using a different computer of course) since he was kind of a big pick at the time and would definitely be my most wanted final evolution grass starter. I thought about voting for Banjo but he had a huge groundswell of support at the time so I decided to throw my lot in with Crash to help boost him up.

That's actually what struck me. I had a really hard time believing Banjo was beaten by Bayonetta diehards. Some of those people were such toxic ****heads honestly berating you for daring to challenge the narrative of their darling waifu and ****ting all over Banjo fans for liking a dormant series.

Part of the reason I really hope for EiH to return is that I legitimately hate that side of Smash speculation/fandom. Where a character NOT getting in is just as celebratory to terminally-online memester dorks as it is getting a character they want if not an even greater joy for the especially toxic.

 

[Shroob]

Well the ballot's over and done with.

I voted for Cloud and Crash. I kind of wish I made the effort to vote for Sceptile (by using a different computer of course) since he was kind of a big pick at the time and would definitely be my most wanted final evolution grass starter. I thought about voting for Banjo but he had some a huge groundswell of support at the time so I decided to throw my lot in with Crash to help boost him up.

That's actually what struck me. I had a really hard time believing Banjo was beaten by Bayonetta diehards. Some of those people were such toxic ****heads honestly berating you for daring to challenge the narrative of their darling waifu and ****ting all over Banjo fans for liking a dormant series.

Part of the reason I really hope for EiH to return is that I legitimately hate that side of Smash speculation/fandom. Where a character NOT getting in is just as celebratory to terminally-online memester dorks as it is getting a character they want if not an even greater joy for the especially toxic.

Let's not go here, please.

 

[Chuderz]

Let's not go here, please.

Well it's just the nature of fandoms I guess and it was part of my thoughts in regards to why I'm against cuts beyond the simple desire for more and more characters/content. They were just defending their character from an onslaught of haters and doubters to the point where they'd conflate the two together as a reflex I suppose. I don't hold it against the character or anything though I haven't played the games. Mostly because Nintendo screws over all of their series that need help by rarely doing discounts and then not even doing decent discounts at that when they do. Seriously bad business and Nintendo should really reevaluate their stubborn and stupid "our games are inherently worth the full price always" stance that's hindering the potential to grow for a lot of their series.

Anyway Nintendofans did the same thing with speculating Cloud and how you were bad for liking the most popular FF game and how it's extra stupid to want him because he wasn't on a Nintendo console. I remember using his summon in Chain of Memories as a rebuttal to that and I still couldn't change these stubborn peoples' minds. People are just that, in that they'll oftentimes work backward from their conclusions that is. They didn't want Cloud they wanted (insert any other FF character here) so anything and everything was a good enough reason why he couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't be in.

I think discussing the toxicity around Smash spec can be an interesting discussion. Geno and Isaac get the heavy brunt of that toxicity and I think that sucks despite not really caring for either character myself.

 

[Shroob]

Well it's just the nature of fandoms I guess and it was part of my thoughts in regards to why I'm against cuts beyond the simple desire for more and more characters/content. They were just defending their character from an onslaught of haters and doubters to the point where they'd conflate the two together as a reflex I suppose. I don't hold it against the character or anything though I haven't played the games. Mostly because Nintendo screws over all of their series that need help by rarely doing discounts and then not even doing decent discounts at that when they do. Seriously bad business and Nintendo should really reevaluate their stubborn and stupid "our games are inherently worth the full price always" stance that's hindering the potential to grow for a lot of their series.

Anyway Nintendofans did the same thing with speculating Cloud and how you were bad for liking the most popular FF game and how it's extra stupid to want him because he wasn't on a Nintendo console. I remember using his summon in Chain of Memories as a rebuttal to that and I still couldn't change these stubborn peoples' minds. People are just that, in that they'll oftentimes work backward from their conclusions that is. They didn't want Cloud they wanted (insert any other FF character here) so anything and everything was a good enough reason why he couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't be in.

I think discussing the toxicity around Smash spec can be an interesting discussion. Geno and Isaac get the heavy brunt of that toxicity and I think that sucks despite not really caring for either character myself.

Or, we could not.


There's nothing good to come from opening old wounds.

 

[Chuderz]

Or, we could not.


There's nothing good to come from opening old wounds.

Well I think that's dramatic but I understand that you have concerns about it being an unproductive conversation.

Oh well it's not like it personally hurts my feelings when people hate on a character I like. I just think it sucks and I kind of hate the aspect of the community where a disconfirmation of character is just as joyous as a confirmation. That's all I'm saying.

 

[chocolatejr9]

And then there's me, who's so easy to please, I would probably vote for even some obscure indie character in a new Ballot...

 

[ZeldaFan01]

And then there's me, who's so easy to please, I would probably vote for even some obscure indie character in a new Ballot...

Mumkar/Metal Face "Ah, always eager to please .!"

 

[chocolatejr9]

Mumkar/Metal Face "Ah, always eager to please .!"

Hey, it's not my fault my standards are basically non-existant. Heck, there are only three characters I actively DON'T want to see in Smash, and they're all for personal reasons, which means my opinions on thrm don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Hey, it's not my fault my standards are basically non-existant. Heck, there are only three characters I actively DON'T want to see in Smash, and they're all for personal reasons, which means my opinions on thrm don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

No hate, but besides my top 5, I just want 's traveling companions, Amazon Pandora & friends, & more characters. So, how's that for low standards lol!
Or some of the speculated Zelda Characters from prior games hahaa

 

[chocolatejr9]

No hate, but besides my top 5, I just want 's traveling companions, Amazon Pandora & friends, & more characters. So, how's that for low standards lol!
Or some of the speculated Zelda Characters from prior games hahaa

Are we turning this into a competition? Try this: all it took was one look at Huggy Wuggy from Poppy Playtime for me to go "You know what? He'd be pretty cool in Smash."

Wait, am I reading your comment right? Now I'm not sure.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Are we turning this into a competition? Try this: all it took was one look at Huggy Wuggy from Poppy Playtime for me to go "You know what? He'd be pretty cool in Smash."

Wait, am I reading your comment right? Now I'm not sure.

Oh, no, I was referring to how you said you basically don't care who gets in? Except for the 3 unnamed characters you mentioned

& lol at Huggy Wuggy. XD

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even if Bayonetta isn't who I voted for in the ballot...

I am really happy she's here.



Even if she seemed strange at first, she really is one of those adopted Nintendo All Stars like . The only difference is that's she's the only one we have from the modern day. Nintendo took advantage of that relationship in a timely manner as opposed to decades later.

The only other characters I can think of that are in a similar boat are Travis Touchdown and Shantae. Even still, Nintendo themselves has invested a LOT more in the Bayonetta IP.

 

[ZelDan]

Bayonetta is a character I would not have expected to get into Smash back then and thus didn't really bother to support her or get any hopes up.

But boy when she WAS added I was hyped as hell. IDGAF if she was a true ballot winner or not, she was a dope inclusion...well, her being stupidly OP in Smash 4 aside anyways...

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Bayonetta is a character I would not have expected to get into Smash back then and thus didn't really bother to support her or get any hopes up.

But boy when she WAS added I was hyped as hell. IDGAF if she was a true ballot winner or not, she was a dope inclusion...well, her being stupidly OP in Smash 4 aside anyways...

I love how they made her a bully to & , be it Sakurai's franchise lol. It was one of the best ideas he's had amongst many others.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even if Bayonetta isn't who I voted for in the ballot...

I am really happy she's here.



Even if she seemed strange at first, she really is one of those adopted Nintendo All Stars like . The only difference is that's she's the only one we have from the modern day. Nintendo took advantage of that relationship in a timely manner as opposed to decades later.

The only other characters I can think of that are in a similar boat are Travis Touchdown and Shantae. Even still, Nintendo themselves has invested a LOT more in the Bayonetta IP.

You know I actually thought of one more franchise from the modern day that Nintendo kind of adopted.

Bravely Default.

Heck, Nintendo may actually have just as much interest in that franchise as they do Bayonetta.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Oh, no, I was referring to how you said you basically don't care who gets in? Except for the 3 unnamed characters you mentioned

& lol at Huggy Wuggy. XD

Ah, sorry about that. I'm not the best at understanding what people are saying sometimes.

And yeah, the fact I'm okay with Huggy Wuggy of all characters probably says a lot about me...

You know I actually thought of one more franchise from the modern day that Nintendo kind of adopted.

Bravely Default.

Heck, Nintendo may actually have just as much interest in that franchise as they do Bayonetta.

If for whatever reason, Nintendo decides to officially join the buyout race, there's a weird part of me that wouldn't mind if they bought Team Asano from Square Enix. Makes a lot of sense to me, for some reason...

 

[Ivander]

And then there's me, who's so easy to please, I would probably vote for even some obscure indie character in a new Ballot...

I'm pretty good with any character joining Smash, especially more random picks. The only character I felt quite hesitant on joining Smash was Jonesy from Fortnite. Mostly because one, I'm not a fan of the artstyle for Fortnite and two, just something about him and Fortnite, it felt like someone that I really didn't want at the time. Maybe because Fortnite's stigma was still rather fresh at the time.

With Smash Ultimate done and a new Smash coming eventually, I might become more open to Jonesy and Fortnite coming into Smash. Especially with alot of high hopes being lowered to a more controlled level.
---
And my absolute obscure pick would be Allen from Culdcept Revolt. I know he somehow got in Smash Ultimate as a Spirit, but seriously, who the frick' here besides me knows what Culdcept is?

 

[Chuderz]

I'm pretty good with any character joining Smash, especially more random picks. The only character I felt quite hesitant on joining Smash was Jonesy from Fortnite. Mostly because one, I'm not a fan of the artstyle for Fortnite and two, just something about him and Fortnite, it felt like someone that I really didn't want at the time. Maybe because Fortnite's stigma was still rather fresh at the time.

I felt that way about Steve joining the roster. When he was revealed I thought he looked awful and I especially think Steve himself is such a lazy design (I think that was point though) and it's still probably my most negative Smash reaction. No real hate just a more pronounced disappointment. It took a while but I'm used to it now and I like Enderman and all the Alex alts just fine.

I personally would have liked for Steve to have been "Smashified" like this to help him fit in better even though I'm sure people prefer the more faithful look.


Also while I"m on the subject of Steve I wanted to say that Sakurai had mentioned wanting to let players import their own Minecraft worlds in as the stage's background but found it to be too complicated. That'd been cool. There's a really cool mod that lets you import your Minecraft characters in as Steve. I wish they would have just implemented that instead (considering it works as a fan-made mod) and have the announcer refer to your custom character as "Minecrafter" or something. The only thing I can imagine getting in the way is Mojang (Microsoft) not being keen on their character being a platform for custom avatars but I don't imagine why other than publicity stuff when you consider the fact that a big part of Minecraft is character customization. Oh well. If they'd paywalled either of these features (or better yet both) behind the Switch version of Minecraft I'd of bought it. Could of boosted sales quite nicely I believe.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'm pretty good with any character joining Smash, especially more random picks. The only character I felt quite hesitant on joining Smash was Jonesy from Fortnite. Mostly because one, I'm not a fan of the artstyle for Fortnite and two, just something about him and Fortnite, it felt like someone that I really didn't want at the time. Maybe because Fortnite's stigma was still rather fresh at the time.

With Smash Ultimate done and a new Smash coming eventually, I might become more open to Jonesy and Fortnite coming into Smash. Especially with alot of high hopes being lowered to a more controlled level.
---
And my absolute obscure pick would be Allen from Culdcept Revolt. I know he somehow got in Smash Ultimate as a Spirit, but seriously, who the frick' here besides me knows what Culdcept is?

I feel the same about Jonsey. Fortnite just has such an overly-memey feel to me, even as someone who likes memes. I felt similarly about Steve, but looking back, at least Minecraft was popular for its own merits. It seems hard to gauge whether the same could be said for Fortnite, where it seems, at least from my outsider's perspective, that it's mainly the crossover and meme aspect that makes it popular. And that's probably the thing rubbing so many of us the wrong way about potential Fortnite inclusion in Smash.

The only other character I'm hesitant on is Tetromino. Smash characters have to be able to jump, hang onto ledges, and grab. I'm honestly not sure how you'd pull those off with Tetromino, in addition to it being the literal only character where I'd make the "lack of moveset" argument. A Tetris stage would be great though. It's honestly surprising that they still haven't done one.

 

[Perkilator]

Decided to rework my Eggman moveset a little