Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

BWD’s moveset potential continues to grow

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Yamat08]

Like a lot of people, I wasn't fond of that roster suggestion including Classic Link. However, thinking on it again, I suppose he's there because the adult Link was revamped heavily for his Breath of the Wild incarnation (and is arguably one of the only characters to truly be "cut" in Ultimate as a result). And though I do think that Young Link did a good job of replicating most of his old moveset (with the added benefit of de-cloning Young Link), I wouldn't blame some fans for thinking it's just not the same. Even so, I do agree that a new Zelda character could've been much better spent elsewhere (though I would settle on Zelda characters getting back their Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess incarnations as alternate skins).

Also, no Reimu or KOS-MOS, so still a fail roster.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Imagine if Nintendo decides to localize the Advance Wars remakes to Japan four years later as a nod to the gap between the western and JPN dates of the originals.
It could have been worse, like the compilation being a MyNintendo-exclusive reward for the Switch's successor (making a reference to Days of Ruin's controversial release in that country)

 

[Yamat08]

Imagine if Nintendo decides to localize the Advance Wars remakes to Japan four years later as a nod to the gap between the western and JPN dates of the originals.
It could have been worse, like the compilation being a MyNintendo-exclusive reward for the Switch's successor (making a reference to Days of Ruin's controversial release in that country)

Heh. I actually got Japanese Days of Ruin, as well as Nintendoji. Had to rush like crazy importing gold coin-elligible titles before Club Nintendo shut down.

 

[dream1ng]

Imagine if Nintendo decides to localize the Advance Wars remakes to Japan four years later as a nod to the gap between the western and JPN dates of the originals.
It could have been worse, like the compilation being a MyNintendo-exclusive reward for the Switch's successor (making a reference to Days of Ruin's controversial release in that country)

It is funny that a series that spent so much of its life exclusive to Japan ended up being so much more popular in the west that the domestic releases became, basically, complete afterthoughts.

 

[Sucumbio]

I often wonder how Japanese exclusives that get brought to the west later in their series transform in order to appease the western audience from that point forward only to end up less popular because it was the Japanese-ness of it that was the original attraction. Like just make all titles available everywhere n.n

 

[Guynamednelson]

the domestic releases became, basically, complete afterthoughts.

It helps that Japanese gamers who REALLY wanted more Nintendo Wars would've imported the GBA games years before their official JP release.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I often wonder how Japanese exclusives that get brought to the west later in their series transform in order to appease the western audience from that point forward only to end up less popular because it was the Japanese-ness of it that was the original attraction. Like just make all titles available everywhere n.n

If it were that simple, Mother 3 wouldn't be such a meme.

 

[Mamboo07]

Seeing Kirby's Mouthful Modes makes me want to see them as new attacks for Kirby.

Some examples:

• Car = Side B (Can jump)
• Cone = Down B
• Arch = Gliding (able to barrel roll)
• Ring = Side Smash (Blasts a gust of air)
• Stairs = Down Smash (falls downwards)
• Pipe = Dash Attack (Faster down slopes)

 

[Idon]

Seeing Kirby's Mouthful Modes makes me want to see them as new attacks for Kirby.

Some examples:

• Car = Side B (Can jump)
• Cone = Down B
• Arch = Gliding (able to barrel roll)
• Ring = Side Smash (Blasts a gust of air)
• Stairs = Down Smash (falls downwards)
• Pipe = Dash Attack (Faster down slopes)

I disagree. I think mouthful mode is a super weird take on Kirby's suction ability in a fighting game and it really doesn't mesh well with his image as a spherical puffball. Certainly wouldn't want most of his moveset comprising of it.

 

[Mamboo07]

I disagree. I think mouthful mode is a super weird take on Kirby's suction ability in a fighting game and it really doesn't mesh well with his image as a spherical puffball. Certainly wouldn't want most of his moveset comprising of it.

I respect your opinion

 

[Yamat08]

I often wonder how Japanese exclusives that get brought to the west later in their series transform in order to appease the western audience from that point forward only to end up less popular because it was the Japanese-ness of it that was the original attraction. Like just make all titles available everywhere n.n

I certainly do hate this practice, making a franchise appeal to a "global audience" when it did well enough to attract enough attention on its own (and in most cases, it's because of popularity among the import scene that it got noticed in the first place). However, I'm not sure if I notice this problem with Nintendo to anywhere near the extent that it persists among other companies. I mean, there was that period of Treehouse being overly puritanical during the WiiU/3DS era, and they did replace Panel de Pon's shoujo manga-like characters with Yoshi (same with Doki Doki Panic I guess, but should that count? As I recall, it was more of a promotion for a variety show and was initially planned to be a Mario title to begin with), but otherwise, it seems as if Nintendo is one of the few major gaming companies that doesn't shy away from its emphasis on colorful, cartoony games of Japanese origin (contrast that with Capcom, who've pretty much become a wannabe western AAA developer).

Incidentally, what are the Nintendo franchises that were long-time Japan-exclusives? I may be wrong, but I feel like there was only a handful of them overall (not counting franchises and one-off titles that are STILL not localized). Of course, we have Fire Emblem and Famicom Wars/Advanced Wars. Mother made its debut outside of Japan with the sequel (though they were planning to release the first game had it not been so late in the NES's life, and they even finished or nearly finished the prototype, which is likely why it could get localized to Virtual Console with no hassle). I suspect the same thing may've been the case with Animal Crossing (originally on the N64, but likely not localized because it came out way too late). Then we have Legendary Starfy, Custom Robo, Sin and Punishment, the original Panel de Pon, the Mysterious Murasame Castle, and I think most recently, Famicom Detective Club. I wonder if Pokemon could barely count as well (it was out in Japan almost 3 years before coming to the rest of the world, though unlike the rest of these examples, at least the rest of the world got started on the original games on their native system..... well, more of a strange hybrid of Red, Green, and Blue versions, really).

 

[chocolatejr9]

Y'know, we always talk about Crazy Dave or Dr. Zomboss being the Plants vs Zombies rep, so it's actually a nice change of pace to see one of the Plants brought up in discussion.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Is this about the leak?

Hiiii, not very active atm. But I have been living under a rock so not sure what this "leak" is that U speak of. Do tell

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hiiii, not very active atm. But I have been living under a rock so not sure what this "leak" is that U speak of. Do tell

Some kind of Nvidia leak that implied that we'd be getting another Switch revision soonish. A lot of people think it's Switch Pro or Switch 2, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be another OLED situation.

 

[Stratos]

Regarding the Professor Layton series, in my opinion at least, it should be a second party video game series of Nintendo, because most of its games have been released for Nintendo consoles.

 

[Chuderz]

Y'know, we always talk about Crazy Dave or Dr. Zomboss being the Plants vs Zombies rep, so it's actually a nice change of pace to see one of the Plants brought up in discussion.

These paragraphs are mostly going to not be about the character in the video so stop reading if you don't care. I watched a little in the beginning but it triggered me so I just had to type this out haha.

I always hate when the jab takes up the Side-Tilt spot in addition to its place as the jab in order to make it so that it "moves" while it's in use. Why not just have it be distinctly known as a "walking Jab" and just program it that way? Well I think it's because tilts are still operating on the, what I consider, archaic original implementation of them. I think if Kazuya can have 3 distinct Down-Tilts in addition to 3 distinct "crouch" attacks then this can easily be done in-game.

I've said before that I think having the tilts function the way they have in the past is clunky and unintuitive. Standardizing the tilts as the "C-stick" is the solution. Just like when the C-Stick is Smash attacks and you can still input then with Direction+Attack double inputs you could still do tilts the old way UNLESS your character had one of these "walking jabs" I described earlier which would bar you from inputting your hypothetical wholly original Side-Tilt without the tilt-stick. Maybe though the input could still be "split" between a traditional Side-Tilt and a "walking jab" as I've described it? Could be possible by taking a page from Kazuya's design again and having Diagonal-Up-Forward-Attack and Diagonal-Down-Forward-Attack function as the Side-Tilt while Forward-Attack functions as the walking jab and of course the "forward" in this case would be relative to your position.

While I'm on the subject I think stick-jump should be defaulted off. This would allow for the creation of "Up-Attacks" just like standardized c-stick for tilts would allow for the creation of "Down-Attacks". Diagonal-Down-Forward-Attack and Diagonal-Down-Backward-Attack (think Kazuya's crouch attack inputs) could still be inputted as Down-Tilt inputs that switch their angle of attack based on which direction you inputted relative to your position in just the same way Diagonal-Up-Forward-Attack and Diagonal-Up-Backward-Attack would work in the exact same manner for Up-Tilt inputs (changing the angle/direction the attack relative to your position) while making space for these new unique "Up-Attack" and "Down-Attack" options.

Idk just untapped space in Smash's design that I've noticed.

One of my ideas is that these "Down-Attacks" are actually already in the game. You could slightly reanimate any one of the characters' "Get-Up-Attacks' into something more visually fluid from a crouching position and then voila, you have "Down-Attacks" now. These attacks could be pulled from any one of the characters' "Get-Up-Attacks" being either Backward/Forward/Tripped/Ledge Get-Up-Attack. For instance, I'd prefer Cloud get his Ledge-Get-Up-Attack as his hypothetical Down-Attack because since his Down-Tilt is a sliding attack he doesn't have a low sword swing attack like Pythra's Down-Tilt for example. A lot of characters could get their Backward/Tripped-Get-Up-Attacks (Backward as in character landed on their back) and these more accessible Get-Up-Attacks could add a lot of depth to the game by being a faster, less end-lagged roll catching option with the trade-off being they do less damage and knockback than a Down-Smash option.

 

[Delzethin]

I agree that putting Kirby's Mouthful Mode forms into his moveset would be too clunky design-wise...with one exception.

I wouldn't be surprised if his Final Smash next game uses a form somehow. Which one...will depend on what available options there are in the full release of Forgotten Land, which are used most prominently, and which would work best as Final Smashes.

 

[Sucumbio]

I agree that putting Kirby's Mouthful Mode forms into his moveset would be too clunky design-wise...with one exception.

I wouldn't be surprised if his Final Smash next game uses a form somehow. Which one...will depend on what available options there are in the full release of Forgotten Land, which are used most prominently, and which would work best as Final Smashes.

Maybe he swallow a stage element like a platform and stomp you with it lol

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

These paragraphs are mostly going to not be about the character in the video so stop reading if you don't care. I watched a little in the beginning but it triggered me so I just had to type this out haha.

I always hate when the jab takes up the Side-Tilt spot in addition to its place as the jab in order to make it so that it "moves" while it's in use. Why not just have it be distinctly known as a "walking Jab" and just program it that way? Well I think it's because tilts are still operating on the, what I consider, archaic original implementation of them. I think if Kazuya can have 3 distinct Down-Tilts in addition to 3 distinct "crouch" attacks then this can easily be done in-game.

I've said before that I think having the tilts function the way they have in the past is clunky and unintuitive. Standardizing the tilts as the "C-stick" is the solution. Just like when the C-Stick is Smash attacks and you can still input then with Direction+Attack double inputs you could still do tilts the old way UNLESS your character had one of these "walking jabs" I described earlier which would bar you from inputting your hypothetical wholly original Side-Tilt without the tilt-stick. Maybe though the input could still be "split" between a traditional Side-Tilt and a "walking jab" as I've described it? Could be possible by taking a page from Kazuya's design again and having Diagonal-Up-Forward-Attack and Diagonal-Down-Forward-Attack function as the Side-Tilt while Forward-Attack functions as the walking jab and of course the "forward" in this case would be relative to your position.

While I'm on the subject I think stick-jump should be defaulted off. This would allow for the creation of "Up-Attacks" just like standardized c-stick for tilts would allow for the creation of "Down-Attacks". Diagonal-Down-Forward-Attack and Diagonal-Down-Backward-Attack (think Kazuya's crouch attack inputs) could still be inputted as Down-Tilt inputs that switch their angle of attack based on which direction you inputted relative to your position in just the same way Diagonal-Up-Forward-Attack and Diagonal-Up-Backward-Attack would work in the exact same manner for Up-Tilt inputs (changing the angle/direction the attack relative to your position) while making space for these new unique "Up-Attack" and "Down-Attack" options.

Idk just untapped space in Smash's design that I've noticed.

One of my ideas is that these "Down-Attacks" are actually already in the game. You could slightly reanimate any one of the characters' "Get-Up-Attacks' into something more visually fluid from a crouching position and then voila, you have "Down-Attacks" now. These attacks could be pulled from any one of the characters' "Get-Up-Attacks" being either Backward/Forward/Tripped/Ledge Get-Up-Attack. For instance, I'd prefer Cloud get his Ledge-Get-Up-Attack as his hypothetical Down-Attack because since his Down-Tilt is a sliding attack he doesn't have a low sword swing attack like Pythra's Down-Tilt for example. A lot of characters could get their Backward/Tripped-Get-Up-Attacks (Backward as in character landed on their back) and these more accessible Get-Up-Attacks could add a lot of depth to the game by being a faster, less end-lagged roll catching option with the trade-off being they do less damage and knockback than a Down-Smash option.

I think a more elegant solution to the walking jab problem would be to require people to stand still during the jab input and then allow them to hold left or right while holding the button to walk. Some of us don't use c-stick (blasphemy, I know) because of how clunky it is to switch between different hand positions, so to me the idea of forcing everyone to use it for tilts of all things is incredibly gross. To me the best way of dealing with tilts is to give smash attacks their own button. Then there isn't as much precision required to get the move you want.

On the topic of diagonal inputs, I'm not sure I entirely follow what your idea is, but I think they are tricky. One thing that exists right now is the ability to turn around with up-tilts/specials/smashes if you tilt the stick at a diagonal. So take Marth's up-tilt, for instance. He swings his sword up from in front toward the back. If you want to start from the other direction, you can hold the stick up and back for Marth to turn around and swing the opposite way. With specific diagonal moves you lose that. It would also be finicky on characters that turn around, and it could easily become a Smash 4 Ryu situation.

I do agree with tap jump being off by default, but it would also be nice if there was an option in the name creation to toggle it without going to the controls screen. For most people that's the only setting they change, and it would be nice for them to be able to do so without going into another menu.

 

[SPEN18]

I wouldn't be surprised if his Final Smash next game uses a form somehow. Which one...will depend on what available options there are in the full release of Forgotten Land, which are used most prominently, and which would work best as Final Smashes.

This could definitely happen. Given that his Final Smash was updated in 4 to reflect a then-recent title, Sakurai is apparently not completely averse to changing the Final Smash of his beloved puffball.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I was bored these days, so i made a 100% biased Smash Reboot roster:

Spoiler: Fighter List

Mario (Super Mario) [Art By: Team Destination]
Link (The Legend of Zelda)
Samus (Metroid)
Kirby (Kirby) [Art By: Nibroc-Rock]
Pikachu (Pokémon)
Anna (Fire Emblem)
Inkling (Splatoon)
Mio (Xenoblade Chronicles)
Officer (Astral Chain)
Isabelle (Animal Crossing)
Ribbon Girl (Arms)
Ring-Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Isaac (Golden Sun) [Art By: Kam The Man 56]
Olimar (Pikmin)
Mr. Game & Watch (Game & Watch)
Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight) [Art By: Hydro Plumber]
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
Popo and Nana (Ice Climber)
Ray Mk. III (Custom Robo)
Sami (Wars)
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo!) [Art By: Nibroc-Rock]
Barista (Rhythm Heaven)
Jill (Drill Dozer)
R.O.B. (R.O.B.)
Qbby (BoxBoy!)
Tethu (EverOasis)
Duck Hunt Duo (Duck Hunt)
Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Pac-Man (PAC-MAN)
Banjo-Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
Black Mage (Final Fantasy)
Bomberman (Bomberman)
Rayman (Rayman)
Ryu (Street Fighter)
Terry (Fatal Fury)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes)
Jason (Blaster Master)
Blanc (Neptunia)

Spoiler: Character Selection Screen

Spoiler: Fighter Passes (Not Pictured)

Part 1: Familiar Faces
Captain Falcon (F-Zero)
Ness (Mother)
Fox (Star Fox)
Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong)
Yoshi (Yoshi)
Wario (Wario)

Part 2: New Faces
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
Mach Rider (Mach Rider)
Sukapon (Joy Mecha Might)
Adol Christin (Ys)
Billy and Jimmy (Double Dragon)
Asuka (Senran Kagura)

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I was bored these days, so i made a 100% biased Smash Reboot roster:

Spoiler: Fighter List

Mario (Super Mario) [Art By: Team Destination]
Link (The Legend of Zelda)
Samus (Metroid)
Kirby (Kirby) [Art By: Nibroc-Rock]
Pikachu (Pokémon)
Anna (Fire Emblem)
Inkling (Splatoon)
Mio (Xenoblade Chronicles)
Officer (Astral Chain)
Isabelle (Animal Crossing)
Ribbon Girl (Arms)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Olimar (Pikmin)
Mr. Game & Watch (Game & Watch)
Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight) [Art By: Hydro Plumber]
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
Popo and Nana (Ice Climber)
Ray Mk. III (Custom Robo)
Sami (Wars)
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo!)
Barista (Rhythm Heaven)
Jill (Drill Dozer)
R.O.B. (R.O.B.)
Qbby (BoxBoy!)
Tethu (EverOasis)
Duck Hunt Duo (Duck Hunt)
Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Pac-Man (PAC-MAN)
Banjo-Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
Black Mage (Final Fantasy)
Bomberman (Bomberman)
Rayman (Rayman)
Ryu (Street Fighter)
Terry (Fatal Fury)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes)
Jason (Blaster Master)
Blanc (Neptunia)

Spoiler: Character Selection Screen

View attachment 346742

I see Ryu Hayabusa in there so it’s immediately top tier.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I see Ryu Hayabusa in there so it’s immediately top tier.

Thanks!

As a sidenote, i'll update my post to add two Fighter Passes (one for returning characters, and one for newcomers)

 

[Ivander]

Some kind of Nvidia leak that implied that we'd be getting another Switch revision soonish. A lot of people think it's Switch Pro or Switch 2, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be another OLED situation.

I heard about that leak, although I saw a lot of talk about the Docking Station in particular, with the thought of a new Docking Station that utilises whatever from Nvidia to allow the docked Switch to push out much better graphics on the TV/Docked Mode.

But I don't exactly know enough to follow how exactly that would work or if that could even work. I think the only reason I saw a lot of talk about the docking station was something to do with the Steam Deck and something about the docking system for the Steam Deck.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Some kind of Nvidia leak that implied that we'd be getting another Switch revision soonish. A lot of people think it's Switch Pro or Switch 2, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be another OLED situation.

Ohh okay. That does not sound too Farfetch'd at all whatsoever

 

[dream1ng]

Some kind of Nvidia leak that implied that we'd be getting another Switch revision soonish. A lot of people think it's Switch Pro or Switch 2, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be another OLED situation.

Well this leak indicates the next Switch will have DLSS, which, no matter how they want to market it, will make it a much more substantial leap than the vanilla Switch to the OLED SKU, even if it doesn't contain any other unrelated new features, which it probably would.

 

[Chuderz]

I think a more elegant solution to the walking jab problem would be to require people to stand still during the jab input and then allow them to hold left or right while holding the button to walk.

Hey thanks for replying. I didn't really word that post very well when I reread it. I could have been more specific and I think using the word "Attack" made it more confusing especially since it's an extremely hypothetical rant. I also accidently erroneously failed to realize that the Diagonal directions would be accounted for already by the spaces I left for traditional tilt inputs. I both overthought it and didn't think it through enough. I tried to find a solution for people that would want to input tilts the traditional way but I was correct in my earlier assessment (unposted) that Tilt-Stick is literally the ONLY solution which is why I would opt to at least default the C-Stick/Second-Stick as the tilt if not outright mandate it even if it did upset some players.

Basically I'm trying to leave space for traditional tilt inputting while making space for my hypothetical new attack inputs I'm proposing. Those being the Up-Attack and Down-Attack or more specifically Up-Jab/A and Down-Jab/A. While yes your solution would be a valid method of inputting the walking-jab I'd still like to give the player the option to walk first and then input the jab as well.

Having a defaulted or mandated Tilt-Stick would allow for unique Side-Tilts to co-exist with walking-jabs and even allow for characters with walking jabs to potentially have angle-able Side-Tilts as well while also making space for my proposed "Up-Jab/A" and "Down-Jab/A" inputs as unique attacks. Characters with walking-jabs wouldn't be able to input Side-Tilts in the traditional way anymore but I think it'd be a justifiable loss in order to gain 2 unique (3 counting the unique Side-Tilt I'd be giving them) attacks in the process and besides even then characters without a walking-jab could still input the Side-Tilt in the traditional manner.

This is ultimately why I think having C-Stick/Second-Stick defaulted as Tilt-Stick is the way to go. It solves so many of these design headaches without necessarily losing anything in the process. You even still do a little walk into Side-Tilt (reminiscent of the traditional way of inputting Side-Tilt) by walking a little and then flicking the stick the appropriate direction. Hell you even have the option to do a little walk before inputting a Side-Tilt in the complete opposite direction, something you can't at all do without Tilt-Stick and it even makes walking Up and Down Tilts much easier.

I completely understand why Megaman's Neutral-Air and Jab are his bullets. Makes total sense and I wouldn't change that but I'd personally like it if Megaman got his ice-blast from his custom moves in Sm4sh back or something else for his Side-Tilt. So basically my implementation would have his jab being walkable like is currently the case but should the player want to input my proposed Ice-Blast Side-Tilt they'd have to use the Tilt-Stick.

So my ideal implementation of these unique "Down-Jab/A" and "Up-Jab/A" attacks would still leave room for reversing Up and Down Tilts with their respective diagonal directional inputs and for characters walking-jabs to have to use the tilt-stick for the Side-Tilt but only their SIde-Tilt would be locked to the Tilt-Stick with this proposed implementation. This would allow players to still reverse these tilts while also allowing for the space for unique Up-Jab/A and Down-Jab/A inputs. Again I think it's a justifiable loss all things considered.

Some of us don't use c-stick (blasphemy, I know) because of how clunky it is to switch between different hand positions, so to me the idea of forcing everyone to use it for tilts of all things is incredibly gross. To me the best way of dealing with tilts is to give smash attacks their own button. Then there isn't as much precision required to get the move you want.

I was already really wordy and overly explanative with my post that I didn't want to delve into the topic of optional button-mapping. Now that I've thought about it though I think Tilt-Stick makes so much space for more moves that I go as far to argue that's for the best to mandate it. Not only would it make space for my "Down-Jab/A" and "Up-Jab/A" but we could even potentially give a Back-Tilt to everybody like Kazuya. Tilt-Stick allows for the potential to be tapped into just like it does for these "Up-Jab/A" and "Down-Jab/A" attacks. Though in the process of gaining this hypothetical Back-Tilt we'd lose the ability to walk a little one way and immediately Side-Tilt in the complete opposite direction that I was talking about earlier haha. I'd definitely give that up for a new attack though as I think so would most players. So mandating Tilt-Stick opens up controller real-estate for 3 new attacks (1 new tilt + Up/Down-Jab/A attacks) for every character. I say that's worth it.

I wouldn't mind giving the Smash attack its own input either. That's an excellent solution. I actually don't get why it's relegated to only being potentially mapped to the C-Stick/Second-Stick. I know some players really love the Smash-Stick and I wouldn't want to take that option away from them but I think it pails in comparison to the value of the Tilt-Stick. Some people will say its advantage is getting quick Smash attacks but I don't see how they're any faster than just doing them the traditional way (doubling inputting the direction and A/Jab) so long as you know let go of the input immediately after inputting it with a quick tap.

On the topic of diagonal inputs, I'm not sure I entirely follow what your idea is, but I think they are tricky. One thing that exists right now is the ability to turn around with up-tilts/specials/smashes if you tilt the stick at a diagonal. So take Marth's up-tilt, for instance. He swings his sword up from in front toward the back. If you want to start from the other direction, you can hold the stick up and back for Marth to turn around and swing the opposite way. With specific diagonal moves you lose that. It would also be finicky on characters that turn around, and it could easily become a Smash 4 Ryu situation.

Yes this is what I was getting at when I was talking about "angle of attack". You can also do these directional influences with Down-Tilts as well. Any character with a sliding Down-Tilt especially should know how to do this in order to quickly reverse directions with the slide.

Basically I see elements I like in both implementations of tilt attacks.

On one hand tilt-stick is an absolute must for me. Not only do I have the tilts reliably quick whenever I need them (even with my sliding Down-Tilt I'll just flick Down on the tilt stick if I want it to go in the direction in already going in) but I can also do Side-Tilts completely still. I honestly don't understand how all players wouldn't want the option to do standing Side-Tilts as opposed to having to first set up the attack by walking a little then inputting the attack button to do the Side-Tilt that way and that's all the worse if you have an angle-able Side-Tilt. Tilt-stick feels borderline mandatory if you have one of those.

Then on the other hand there's the ability to quickly reverse the direction of both the Up-Tilts (works for Up-Smash and Up-Special as well as you pointed out) and Down-Tilts by moving the control stick into the diagonal position of the reversed direction (relative to your position) that you want to go in. Like as Cloud I can land my BAIR and then quickly Down-Tilt slide towards my opponent if the situation calls for it. This is very unreliable with the tilt-stick. Maybe if I have a controller with notches I'd be able to do it (not sure never played with one) but it's much better to have the traditional inputs function this way because it means we players don't need controllers with notches and it also gives the traditional tilt input method an actual purpose for being there.

I do agree with tap jump being off by default, but it would also be nice if there was an option in the name creation to toggle it without going to the controls screen. For most people that's the only setting they change, and it would be nice for them to be able to do so without going into another menu.

Yes as crazy as it is to admit this I actually played with Jump-Stick for about 6 or so months into Ultimate because I'd used it in previous Smash games (I didn't really play Sm4sh all that much) and I never really thought much of it. I actually thought it was best to have another option for jump at the ready if anything. It was a little weird when I turned it off but once I got used to it I never looked back and now, especially with the reverse Up-Tilts/Smash/Special inputs requiring it to be off.

It's yet again something I wouldn't want to take away from players completely but I truly believe in giving the players the options to arrange their tools how they please (to a limit) as a principle of good game design but Jump-Stick is just so utterly bad that I think I can make the case for it being defaulted off without too much controversy but I'd go as far to outright get rid of it completely if it made the addition of my hypothetical "Up-Jab/A" attack that much more seamless, intuitive and justifiable game design.

My main gripe with it is that there's moveset real-estate being occupied by a universally detested option. B-Button (or Special) has at least Neutral, Forward, Up and Down inputs with even the untapped potential for Backward and Shield (Shield-Special) inputs. A-Button has Neutral and Forward (Dash Attack). I see counting tilts as the A-Button's equivalents in this regard as redundant and unnecessary for the reasons I've already explained.

So yeah I think mandating Tilt-Stick and axing Jump-Stick completely leads to an objectively more expansive moveset arsenal without the loss of anything.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wouldn't it be funny if the next Fire Emblem newcomer was actually the main character from Triangle Strategy?

 

[osby]

Wouldn't it be funny if the next Fire Emblem newcomer was actually the main character from Triangle Strategy?

Yes but only if our next Donkey Kong fighter is from Super Monkey Ball.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yes but only if our next Donkey Kong fighter is from Super Monkey Ball.

Or if our next Sonic rep is a character from NiGHTS.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes but only if our next Donkey Kong fighter is from Super Monkey Ball.

Oh, how I would rage.

 

[Lamperouge]

Oh, how I would rage.

Compromise: Stick Kiddy Kong in a ball

 

[Diddy Kong]

Compromise: Stick Kiddy Kong in a ball

My compromise for the Triangle Strategy main "Lord": give him a blue hair alt.

 

[Perkilator]

Man, seeing this video makes me realize just how lame a lot of Final Smashes were made in Ultimate, both veterans and newcomers.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Yeah Shadow or Silver, even are great & all, but yes. I would love to see these two grace the Battlefield.!

 

[Laniv]

Man, seeing this video makes me realize just how lame a lot of Final Smashes were made in Ultimate, both veterans and newcomers.

Such is the casualty of standardizing Final Smashes across the board. Makes me wonder what some of the newcomers' Final Smashes would be if they didn't have to be so simple and to the point.

Actually, it makes me wonder, what would a defensively minded Final Smash look like, as opposed to all the big flashy attacks?

 

[Stratos]

For every new game for the Super Smash Bros. series, there must first be a Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

For every new game for the Super Smash Bros. series, there must first be a Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot.

Yeah. They should

 

[chocolatejr9]

For every new game for the Super Smash Bros. series, there must first be a Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot.

As much as we would like that, it's already been confirmed that we'll probably never get another one.