Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

If Zero ever gets into Smash, I'm hoping they use both of his designs from Mega Man X and Mega Man Zero. They could give him a remix of his X2 theme with elements of his X1 theme.

X would also be pretty cool. Just imagine him being able to do a Hadoken and/or Shoryuken in Smash...

On an unrelated note, if Dante ever gets into Smash, they should add Mundus as a boss.

I would main Megaman Zero in a heartbeat if he were added

 

[CatTastic]

How bout that Team Rocket?

Based on Yellow version just like Pokemon Trainer with the 3 starters.

New mechanic called "dirty move" that can change a status such as paralysis, poison, etc.
Meowth (1) - Agility or Quick Attack for recovery.
(2) (Dirty Move) Nasty Plot, Play Rough, Fake Out or Assurance for special attack.
(3) Fury Swipes for side special

Arbok (1) Not sure about recovery a move via TM such as Poison Tail makes sense.
(2) (Dirty Move) Glare will temporarily paralyze the opponent.
3) Poison Sting is the side special.

Weezing will have 2 Dirty Moves.
(1) (Dirty Move #1) Smokescreen for recovery. It will temporarily blind the opponent but not the player.
(2) (Dirty Move #2) Toxic poisons the opponent permanently.
3) Sludge for side special.

Triple Trouble for Final Smash. A cutscene will appear with Arbok binding the opponent, followed by Slash by Meowth and Sludge Bomb by Weezing.

 

[superprincess]

How bout that Team Rocket?

Based on Yellow version just like Pokemon Trainer with the 3 starters.

New mechanic called "dirty move" that can change a status such as paralysis, poison, etc.
Meowth (1) - Agility or Quick Attack for recovery.
(2) (Dirty Move) Nasty Plot, Play Rough, Fake Out or Assurance for special attack.
(3) Fury Swipes for side special

Arbok (1) Not sure about recovery a move via TM such as Poison Tail makes sense.
(2) (Dirty Move) Glare will temporarily paralyze the opponent.
3) Poison Sting is the side special.

Weezing will have 2 Dirty Moves.
(1) (Dirty Move #1) Smokescreen for recovery. It will temporarily blind the opponent but not the player.
(2) (Dirty Move #2) Toxic poisons the opponent permanently.
3) Sludge for side special.

Triple Trouble for Final Smash. A cutscene will appear with Arbok binding the opponent, followed by Slash by Meowth and Sludge Bomb by Weezing.

I feel like Wobbuffet would definitely be part of Team Rocket if they were in Smash, due to the anime.

 

[CatTastic]

I feel like Wobbuffet would definitely be part of Team Rocket if they were in Smash, due to the anime.

We're basing this off the Yellow version. Wobbuffet is anime only which would disqualify it, plus it wouldn't have a moveset as a fighter anyway.

 

[Stratos]

Since Meowth gained a lot of popularity thanks to the Pokémon anime series and giving him the ability to speak human language, he should have been put as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series. Some have also marked him as Pikachu's rival, though I don't think that counts.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I like the idea of a fighter that can cause various status effects against their opponents, but I feel like having more than the one Pokémon Trainer would make the roster feel bloated, and I’d rather a new Pokémon character add something brand new rather than reusing another’s concept.

I know a lot of people like the idea of another trainer, because it means several more new Pokémon playable, but I think it would be really cool if Ditto was playable, and would briefly transform into a different Pokémon depending on what action you are performing. Ditto could represent a bunch of fan favorite Pokémon who would normally never be playable.

 

[CatTastic]

Since Meowth gained a lot of popularity thanks to the Pokémon anime series and giving him the ability to speak human language, he should have been put as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series. Some have also marked him as Pikachu's rival, though I don't think that counts.

He should have but that's not our call unfortunately. Meowth is #52 and Pikachu is #25 which are opposite numbers, cat and mouse, just like Tom and Jerry. Meowth could have been a better rival instead of being slapstick relief.

 

[ninjahmos]

Come to think of it, maybe his Side+B could be the Stinger. And he could use either his single-handed or double-handed taunt from DMC1.

Maybe Dante's Up+B could be High Time.

 

[Perkilator]

He should have but that's not our call unfortunately. Meowth is #52 and Pikachu is #25 which are opposite numbers, cat and mouse, just like Tom and Jerry. Meowth could have been a better rival instead of being slapstick relief.

I'd argue he should've been one of the OG 12 instead of Jigglypuff due to the reasons you mentioned: opposite PokéDex numbers and the whole "Tom and Jerry" dynamic

 

[CatTastic]

I like the idea of a fighter that can cause various status effects against their opponents, but I feel like having more than the one Pokémon Trainer would make the roster feel bloated, and I’d rather a new Pokémon character add something brand new rather than reusing another’s concept.

I think it would be really cool if Ditto was playable, and would briefly transform into a different Pokémon depending on what action you are performing. Ditto could represent a bunch of fan favorite Pokémon who would normally never be playable.

We need another villain besides Mewtwo. Why not have another trainer but completely different movesets and mechanics?

This is the spirit of the Pokémon games' concepts like the protagonist, mascot, a legendary and fully evolved starters as fighters.

Pichu will most likely get cut and possibly 1 or 2 more.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

We need another villain besides Mewtwo. Why not have another trainer but completely different movesets and mechanics?

This is the spirit of the Pokémon games' concepts like the protagonist, mascot, a legendary and fully evolved starters as fighters.

Pichu will most likely get cut and possibly 1 or 2 more.

With how big the roster of these games has gotten getting 3 brand new playable Pokémon seems a bit excessive at this point. I was cool with it in Brawl, because The Pokémon roster was a bit lacking considering there was only 3 unique Pokémon playable at that point (2 if you consider Jigglypuff using Kirby as a base) and having the first 3 starter Pokémon and the Trainer playable in some form felt worth it, especially because it brought a cool new gimmick. With Mewtwo and Pichu cut and Lucario added that’s 6 playable Pokémon which felt appropriate in my opinion.

Let’s also not forget we tend to get a new Pokémon from the most recent generation playable in each Smash installment, so assuming that happens along with Team Rocket as well as Pichu and 2 others being cut as you suggested might happen, that’s still 11 unique playable Pokémon. The 9 unique and 1 clone in Ultimate already felt a bit excessive, but that game at least had the excuse that everyone had to be there.

I also wouldn’t want 7-9 first Gen Pokémon playable just for the sake of villain representation. If we had to have another trainer I think I would want N. He is an antagonist of sorts, he’s a fan favorite character, we don’t have any Gen 5 Pokémon playable, and his Pokémon could all be different types.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Tails and Knuckles ever get into Smash, not only would they have to add in music from Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but they’d also have to add in both versions of Believe In Myself and Unknown From M.E. from Sonic Adventure 1&2 (as I mentioned before).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I really dont want more Pokemon from G1.

 

[CatTastic]

With how big the roster of these games has gotten getting 3 brand new playable Pokémon seems a bit excessive at this point. I was cool with it in Brawl, because The Pokémon roster was a bit lacking considering there was only 3 unique Pokémon playable at that point (2 if you consider Jigglypuff using Kirby as a base) and having the first 3 starter Pokémon and the Trainer playable in some form felt worth it, especially because it brought a cool new gimmick. With Mewtwo and Pichu cut and Lucario added that’s 6 playable Pokémon which felt appropriate in my opinion.

Let’s also not forget we tend to get a new Pokémon from the most recent generation playable in each Smash installment, so assuming that happens along with Team Rocket as well as Pichu and 2 others being cut as you suggested might happen, that’s still 11 unique playable Pokémon. The 9 unique and 1 clone in Ultimate already felt a bit excessive, but that game at least had the excuse that everyone had to be there.

I also wouldn’t want 7-9 first Gen Pokémon playable just for the sake of villain representation. If we had to have another trainer I think I would want N. He is an antagonist of sorts, he’s a fan favorite character, we don’t have any Gen 5 Pokémon playable, and his Pokémon could all be different types.

Team Rocket would have their own mechanics, by that logic, every Pokémon fighter without a trainer plays exactly the same, which they don't.

Not every generation is going to be represented, there's over 1000 Pokémon now.
If you look at the pattern, they want 3 fully evolved starters from all 3 types. (Inceneroar, Greninja and that grass cat from the new generation)

Besides Pichu I won't guess who gets cut but Mewtwo is staying because he represents legendaries, Pokémon Trainer represents the player, Pikachu is the mascot, 3 fully evolved starters are here to stay so what's left is another trainer or two.

You have the villains and possibly Rival trainer.

It's about what makes the tropes or core characters of the game that matters. Who or what captures that spirit is always up for debate.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Team Rocket would have their own mechanics, by that logic, every Pokémon fighter without a trainer plays exactly the same, which they don't.

Not every generation is going to be represented, there's over 1000 Pokémon now.
If you look at the pattern, they want 3 fully evolved starters from all 3 types. (Inceneroar, Greninja and that grass cat from the new generation)

Besides Pichu I won't guess who gets cut but Mewtwo is staying because he represents legendaries, Pokémon Trainer represents the player, Pikachu is the mascot, 3 fully evolved starters are here to stay so what's left is another trainer or two.

You have the villains and possibly Rival trainer.

It's about what makes the tropes or core characters of the game that matters. Who or wait captures that spirit is always up for debate.

Sakurai didn’t have the mindset of “I’ll add a stand alone fully evolved starter Pokémon of each type per game until all three are represented”, he’s already gone on reacord saying he doesn’t keep future installments in mind when making Smash. It’s pretty clear that Sakurai picked Greninja and Inceroar, because they were his favorites of the available options. We already have Charizard, he could have added Decidueye if he really cared, but he chose Incineroar because he liked the idea of having a wrestling fighting style in the game.

Looking at supposed patterns like that leads you to assumptions like “we’ll only get one 3rd party character per company/series ” or “we’ll get an NES revival character every game” or “we’ll get a new Starfox character every game ” or we’ll get a different version of a kid Link in every game ” or “the newest FE character of the last game will be replaced with the current newest FE character ”

 

[Louie G.]

I really don't care about whether or not a Pokemon is from Gen 1, popularity / quality / potential speaks for itself, but I would find it unlikely to sink three more unique development "slots" on three old Pokemon presumably on top of the obligatory new face from Gen 9 and / or 10.

Admittedly though, I find it a bit immature to shut down discussion of Gen 1 Pokemon under that guise of "we have too much". Maybe I'm naive, but in my eyes that kinda stops mattering after that generation passes. Someone like Eevee or Gengar has persisted well past their prime and unfortunately other generations have struggled to put out too many other Pokemon that reach their level of popularity and marketability. I suppose I understand associating starters in particular, or boxart Pokemon, very closely to their generation but someone like Pikachu or Mewtwo transcends this by a lot and are frequently getting new spotlights.

I know this is probably one of my hotter takes, but I think people stress this point way too heavily when it's really just arbitrary. I'm not saying the aforementioned characters should get precedent over the brand new stuff, it's good to stay up to date, but if you size them up against a given Pokemon from another previous generation there isn't going to be much of a contest. Blame TPC if you'd like but those guys are always being kept relevant.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just met a guy who said Ike was a Marth clone and that Hero was generic.

For all the **** we give each other, we're actually a pretty cool community to discuss Smash.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

There are some Gen 1 Pokémon I would love to see in Smash, I already mentioned wanting Ditto (though my idea for Ditto would incorporate Pokémon from most if not all generations), but some of the most iconic Pokémon are from Gen 1, it’s hard not to have some desire for Meowth, Snorlax or Gengar. I just want more variety I guess, actually I’d rather there be a focus on trying to get as many types represented rather than generations. We don’t have a fighter who can manipulate earth, if Isaac isn’t getting in a rock/ground type Pokémon would be cool.

I just met a guy who said Ike was a Marth clone and that Hero was generic.

For all the **** we give each other, we're actually a pretty cool community to discuss Smash.

Hi Swamp, good to see ya.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

For all the **** we give each other, we're actually a pretty cool community to discuss Smash.

Debatable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There are some Gen 1 Pokémon I would love to see in Smash, I already mentioned wanting Ditto (though my idea for Ditto would incorporate Pokémon from most if not all generations), but some of the most iconic Pokémon are from Gen 1, it’s hard not to have some desire for Meowth, Snorlax or Gengar. I just want more variety I guess, actually I’d rather there be a focus on trying to get as many types represented rather than generations. We don’t have a fighter who can manipulate earth, if Isaac isn’t getting in a rock/ground type Pokémon would be cool.


Hi Swamp, good to see ya.

Hey long time no see.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I do worry sometimes that I’m coming across as a ****. I’m a loser who has spent most of his life consumed by Smash speculation, so I’m very opinionated about this stuff, but I don’t want people to be dissuaded from presenting ideas I or others might find to be unlikely/undesirable. I am unimportant and have been wrong about roster decisions many times. I want people to have fun with speculation, and I hope people are open to hearing opposing thoughts, and don’t take it as an attack. I know I’m probably overthinking this, sorry

I wanted to come back to speculation until the next console was announced, but I couldn’t stay away for too long.

 

[CatTastic]

Sakurai didn’t have the mindset of “I’ll add a stand alone fully evolved starter Pokémon of each type per game until all three are represented”, he’s already gone on reacord saying he doesn’t keep future installments in mind when making Smash. It’s pretty clear that Sakurai picked Greninja and Inceroar, because they were his favorites of the available options. We already have Charizard, he could have added Decidueye if he really cared, but he chose Incineroar because he liked the idea of having a wrestling fighting style in the game.

Looking at supposed patterns like that leads you to assumptions like “we’ll only get one 3rd party character per company/series ” or “we’ll get an NES revival character every game” or “we’ll get a new Starfox character every game ” or we’ll get a different version of a kid Link in every game ” or “the newest FE character of the last game will be replaced with the current newest FE character ”

Never said he did, eventually it came down to 3 starters for different types.
If he doesn't choose playable fighters that people like, they can always voice their opinions and join groups on the internet and if it's big enough, they'll get in through official polls.

I'm not buying your analogy about 3rd party characters.

 

[ninjahmos]

Can I just say this?

I'm totally fine with getting more swordfighters for Smash.

...As long as it's not another Fire Emblem character (with the exception of Lyn and the Black Knight).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If funny on how so many people crap on sword fighters yet Dante is one of the most requested newcomers now.

 

[CatTastic]

I really don't care about whether or not a Pokemon is from Gen 1, popularity / quality / potential speaks for itself, but I would find it unlikely to sink three more unique development "slots" on three old Pokemon presumably on top of the obligatory new face from Gen 9 and / or 10.

Admittedly though, I find it a bit immature to shut down discussion of Gen 1 Pokemon under that guise of "we have too much". Maybe I'm naive, but in my eyes that kinda stops mattering after that generation passes. Someone like Eevee or Gengar has persisted well past their prime and unfortunately other generations have struggled to put out too many other Pokemon that reach their level of popularity and marketability. I suppose I understand associating starters in particular, or boxart Pokemon, very closely to their generation but someone like Pikachu or Mewtwo transcends this by a lot and are frequently getting new spotlights.

I know this is probably one of my hotter takes, but I think people stress this point way too heavily when it's really just arbitrary. I'm not saying the aforementioned characters should get precedent over the brand new stuff, it's good to stay up to date, but if you size them up against a given Pokemon from another previous generation there isn't going to be much of a contest. Blame TPC if you'd like but those guys are always being kept relevant.

Yeah exactly, I respect peoples' preferences regarding Pokémon but it gets so ridiculous. They have no respect for the mons that built this house and think that it's a zero sum game, which it isn't.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If funny on how so many people crap on sword fighters yet Dante is one of the most requested newcomers now.

: "Nah, it's because Donte has guns, and a lot other weapons besides a sword"
Link is technically an Anime Swordsman, but he has Bow and Arrow and Bombs and (formerly) a Hook.

 

[Ivander]

For those who are curious about the game 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim because of it getting a Spirit in Smash Bros. and had gotten alot of praise from both Sakurai and Yoko Taro, 13 Sentinels is on sale on the Switch for around 20 bucks. I have Canadian prices so it's 23.99 plus tax for me, but I'm assuming 13 Sentinels is probably on sale on any other systems it's also on.
But that said, I just thought I'd mentioned that 13 Sentinels is on sale for those who are curious and interested in it after it's Spirit appearance in Smash Bros.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Is this like farming? Probably.

But this Pokémon talk has got me inspired to put my idea of Hex Maniac to paper (or text as it may be) and draft a moveset with the specific concept I had in mind.

If anyone is interested, show me by liking this post so I know there's an audience.

.....**** it's almost been two months since I said I'd do this and I've been putting it off too much.

Need to force myself to finish.

 

[Noipoi]

If funny on how so many people crap on sword fighters yet Dante is one of the most requested newcomers now.

It’s really a specific archetype of sword fighter. Y’know, anime artstyle pretty boys. Usually from JRPGs.

Those are the guys that get all the ****.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If funny on how so many people crap on sword fighters yet Dante is one of the most requested newcomers now.

It's not the sword.

It's anime.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If we get a new Pokémon next Smash my main hope is that it’s not another humanoid, that would be way more disappointing than what generation it comes from. Give me something weird like Garbodor gosh darn it

It’s really a specific archetype of sword fighter. Y’know, anime artstyle pretty boys. Usually from JRPGs.

Those are the guys that get all the ****.

It's not the sword.

It's anime.

Post this to scare a Smash fan

 

[Schnee117]

It's not the sword.

It's anime.

Weirdo Smash Fans when they realise DMC has a canon anime series and Dante was in SMT (Dante is now a "cringe anime swordsman" to them)

it's also funny because if those people actually played the games they'd realise the games are just anime in a gothic/relatively realistic artstyle

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There are a lot of nerds who seem to look down on anything remotely anime like, even when they enjoy several prominent anime or anime inspired games.

Wish we had a word for the hypocritical weebs.

 

[Ivander]

Wish we had a word for the hypocritical weebs.

I think the English language has enough issues already, there's no need to add more to it. Let's just change the adjective into the noun and refer to them as such.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Tails and Knuckles ever get into Smash, not only would they have to add in music from Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but they’d also have to add in both versions of Believe In Myself and Unknown From M.E. from Sonic Adventure 1&2 (as I mentioned before).

They could probably add in Chemical Plant Zone for Tails and Angel Island for Knuckles.

 

[fogbadge]

Wish we had a word for the hypocritical weebs.

i have some. but they won't get past the swear filters

 

[Gorgonzales]

I just met a guy who said Ike was a Marth clone and that Hero was generic.

For all the **** we give each other, we're actually a pretty cool community to discuss Smash.

I'm glad this community exists because discussing Smash on any other form of social media is excruciatingly annoying.

"I want X character"
"Ummmmm literally WHO?? Womp womp, bro wants a nobody in this game"

"I want Y character"
"Lmaoooo blud wants someone who could easily be an echo fighter"

"I want Z character"
"That's the whitest choice I've ever seen bruh, what's blud waffling on about??"

It's devoid of all nuance and most "conversations" are reduced to a contest of how many buzzwords one person can make before the other leaves.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm glad this community exists because discussing Smash on any other form of social media is excruciatingly annoying.

"I want X character"
"Ummmmm literally WHO?? Womp womp, bro wants a nobody in this game"

"I want Y character"
"Lmaoooo blud wants someone who could easily be an echo fighter"

"I want Z character"
"That's the whitest choice I've ever seen bruh, what's blud waffling on about??"

It's devoid of all nuance and most "conversations" are reduced to a contest of how many buzzwords one person can make before the other leaves.

Xernua, Yvetal and Zygarde?

 

[Garteam]

I just met a guy who said Ike was a Marth clone and that Hero was generic.

For all the **** we give each other, we're actually a pretty cool community to discuss Smash.

This is something that a lot of people don't appreciate enough. Smash has a lot of fans who aren't super familiar with many of the series in Smash or even the wider Japanese gaming landscape. Ultimate's sales alone have outpaced the lifetime sales of all but, like, ten series with playable characters in Smash. Ultimate and most of its DLC released while I was an undergrad, so I was able to play a lot of games with youngish people who were both familiar and unfamiliar with Smash. This is ultimately anecdotal, but a common grievance that I heard expressed was people not knowing who any of the DLC characters really were beyond Steve because they weren't fans of the genre they were from and/or their main titles were release before their time.

That's not to say that everyone in Smash is actually obscure and the roster needs to be upended or anything like that, but there is value in acknowledging we are well into the top 1% in terms of interest in this stuff and characters we may view as "big names" might not have as much impact for a general audience. We can debate how popular Bandana Dee and Dante are until we're blue in the face, but there will always be a group of people who will be upset because we didn't get someone hyper-recognizable. It's also worth acknowledging when a character is so well-known and popular that even the most uninformed consumers know who they are, like Waluigi.

 

[Gengar84]

"I want X character"
"Ummmmm literally WHO?? Womp womp, bro wants a nobody in this game"

I can relate to this one lol. A lot of my favorite characters are either generally obscure or at least not brought up very often in Smash speculation. I think it’s actually a good thing that there are several people that want to see less mainstream characters in Smash. I’d love if we got a few more smaller characters and not limit our options to just the biggest, most profitable franchises. Those can be great too but more variety is always a good thing in my book.