Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[superprincess]

I do think Zelda is at a really good spot right now. The series had two breakout hit games back to back, that were not only innovative but also introduced a brand new era of gaming tbh. BOTW's impact is insane. It's not a stretch to say that BOTW was a catalyst for the whole open world trend of the late 2010s.

The games really deserve more representation by that logic... but then again, if none of the characters stand out to Sakurai/whoever is directing, we're not gonna get anything. Which has happened more often than not, so it's easy to lose hope.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's been a long time coming and will thrill as many as it will annoy, but Delzethin is finally taking on the project of redoing Wario.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

"Buys Better Moves"

Already turned off as someone who has mained Wario in Brawl and had him as a secondary since.

 

[fogbadge]

It's been a long time coming and will thrill as many as it will annoy, but Delzethin is finally taking on the project of redoing Wario.

for a moment there i thought it was calling for a remake of the shake dimension

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's been a long time coming and will thrill as many as it will annoy, but Delzethin is finally taking on the project of redoing Wario.

Just watched it. I'm glad Earthquake punch is there, along with the new down tilt, down air, and forward throw. The down throw is fantastic, I'm glad that was able to be included in some way.

Neutral Special is fantastic. Love how it spills money from the opponent, and it's good the command grab was kept around. Up Special is a good improvement as well.

I would prefer Shoulder Bash to be a new side B, but I can tolerate the Wario Bike sticking around. I'm not a fan of Waft sticking around, though. I understand why it's still here and I can appreciate the new changes made to it, I'm just not a fan of the move as a concept for Wario.

The Final Smash still sucks. I want old Wario-Man back, bat-guano insane movement options and frame data and all that.

Overall it's a good rework proposal. I'm glad that he chooses not to go overboard with physical references/prop spawning, which is something not a lot of other Smash fan movesets can say. I was fearing this rework a bit but I'm actually pretty fine with how it turned out.

 

[cashregister9]

The more Wario movesets I see the more I want Wario to lean harder into Warioware.

This isn't actually about Delzethin's moveset because I actually quite like it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No.

Then...a particular character that is around and popular for more than one mainline game.

Which TotK MIGHT have given us. As, between BotW, HW:AoC and TotK, we've been hanging around with a lot of the same cast for 3 games now.

 

[Kirbeh]

The more Wario movesets I see the more I want Wario to lean harder into Warioware.

This isn't actually about Delzethin's moveset because I actually quite like it.

Just to be spiteful?

 

[Guynamednelson]

The more Wario movesets I see the more I want Wario to lean harder into Warioware.

This isn't actually about Delzethin's moveset because I actually quite like it.

You mean "the more I want Wario to lean into WarioWare...at all". Despite certain complaints, the ratio of Land/Ware specific moves in his moveset is 1:1...because there's literally 1 of each unless you count Wario-Man.

I probably shouldn't even count the shoulder bash as a Land specific thing either, WW has had more shoulder bashing than farting overall.

 

[cashregister9]

Just to be spiteful?

Not necessarily, I think I came off as being way more harsh about it than it meant to be (Poe's law and all that) but every time I see a Wario moveset online 9 times out of 10 it is just adding a bunch of Wario Land references in place of any sort of design.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Not necessarily, I think I came off as being way more harsh about it than it meant to be (Poe's law and all that) but every time I see a Wario moveset online 9 times out of 10 it is just adding a bunch of Wario Land references in place of any sort of design.

Especially when they flood it with using the reactions as attacks.

 

[superprincess]

Wario moveset revamps are always weird to me because he needs like three moves fixed at most. Down smash is just unsatisfying, down air could be a butt stomp, the Corkscrew is kinda uninspired... but that's mostly it? Some animations could be pushed further to emphasize his overzealous and try-hard nature, but I don't think an entire rework is necessary.

Then again, I've kinda fallen out of love with the idea of full moveset reworks so maybe that's just me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As for Zelda newcomers, I'm not banking on it much. Our only other possible ones were two semi-clones in Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik(and no, it didn't mean Tetra in the first place. It would've said that or something heavily alluding to it. This isn't a Roy case where it used FireEmblem because Sakurai wasn't sure on who. This is quite a bit later with scrapped characters. The only questionable entries are Pra_Mai at best, and that's still likely to be Plusle & Minun, despite the odd naming schemes).

Though at least now it's much easier to make Toon Sheik, but other than having a combo of them being transformation characters, there's no real reason for it. It would've been difficult to make either way(Toon Sheik needs a new model, and Tetra cannot be a clone type anyway). Besides that, Toon Link only was easy because he used assets from Young Link as well. Without Young Link, he might've not even made it in. We might've just gotten Ganondorf at best(who may have still been some kind of clone too). To clarify a bit, if we didn't get Young Link, it'd be due to not getting any clones in Melee. So no Ganondorf either.

But yeah, there's been zero hints of any other ones even considered. Instead of new characters, they updated two of the playable ones to resemble different versions(BOTW Link, TP Link, ALTTP/ALBW Zelda, TP Zelda). Ganondorf doesn't count in the same way, since it's not a different person. Nor does Toon Link, since he's a completely different design from Young Link and only counts as a semi-clone of him at best. And as noted, we were going to get a semi-clone of Zelda and Sheik otherwise. Not exactly promising. I honestly would expect another Ganon or Dorf at this point, or even Toon Zelda(or Tetra, or Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik if they find it easier to work with). There's a lot of cool characters, but they're reduced to cameos at best. Hell, even the most notable Ganon, from ALTTP(and games using the artstyle) has yet to get a reference. Which says even more of how little Characters are on the table.

Ultimately, Stages, Spirits, and Items are probably all that Zelda will get from now on. If we're lucky, another Triforce Trio variant. And I say this as someone who wants Tingle and Oracles Impa too. They're awesome choices(also, ALTTP Ganon).

 

[Shinuto]

You know, with her being in Smash Remix, what would it take for Marina to actually get in Smash Bros? Like to what level of new content would she need to get currently to get in?

 

[HyperSomari64]

You know, with her being in Smash Remix, what would it take for Marina to actually get in Smash Bros? Like to what level of new content would she need to get currently to get in?

The only bump in the road is: who owns the Mischief Makers IP? Square Enix or Treasure?

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, with her being in Smash Remix, what would it take for Marina to actually get in Smash Bros? Like to what level of new content would she need to get currently to get in?

Good question. I don't know if it'd be a new game or anything in terms of getting her in, but I would love to play as Marina Liteyears in a future, official Smash Bros. game.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Does Wario’s current moveset actually lean into WarioWare all that much? There’s the bike I guess, which maybe feels a bit over-centralized for the kind of move it is, but overall he feels more random than anything.

I think my actual problem with his portrayal in Smash is that he’s a little too gross and weird. Wario’s always supposed to be something of a slob, but in Smash he’s just “scary man who farts and bites you.” But when he’s the star of his own action games, he feels more like a rough-and-tumble macho dude who loves adventure and a good scrap. Who also just happens to be fat and ugly.

I want that aspect of the character to shine through more than any specific references.

 

[CannonStreak]

I wish to voice an opinion. Here goes nothing.

I think Microsoft and Square Enix are similar companies when it comes to Smash Bros. characters coming from them. I mean, they both seem to own a lot of companies nowadays, like Bethesda, Activision, Rare and others with Microsoft and Taito and others for Square Enix. I actually think they both have many characters from many companies, like Master Chief, Crash, Spyro, Doom Guy, etc. with Microsoft and Geno, Bub and Bob with Square Enix.

I don't know how many companies Microsoft and Square Enix each own in terms of gaming companies, but what I am trying to say is that they seem to take up a decent amount of the overall game industry when it comes to potential third-party characters that could be included for Smash Bros.

EDIT: I just edited out some things for accuracy, such as removing Lara Croft and Crystal Dynamics and all. Still, Square Enix, before the Embracer group came along, did own Lara and Tomb Raider and Crystal Dynamics, so I think it still says a lot in terms of owning a chunk of the game industry, even though that may have changed with Tomb Raider and Crystal Dynamics being brought out.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know, with her being in Smash Remix, what would it take for Marina to actually get in Smash Bros? Like to what level of new content would she need to get currently to get in?

She'd need a LOT.

She'd need a new game that Nintendo would want to advertise or intensive fan demand. Marina is awesome, but she's pretty obscure. Her situation would have to change drastically to get in.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You know, with her being in Smash Remix, what would it take for Marina to actually get in Smash Bros? Like to what level of new content would she need to get currently to get in?

A game.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

As for Zelda newcomers, I'm not banking on it much. Our only other possible ones were two semi-clones in Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik(and no, it didn't mean Tetra in the first place. It would've said that or something heavily alluding to it. This isn't a Roy case where it used FireEmblem because Sakurai wasn't sure on who. This is quite a bit later with scrapped characters. The only questionable entries are Pra_Mai at best, and that's still likely to be Plusle & Minun, despite the odd naming schemes).

Have either of these things actually been confirmed?

I'm fairly certain that the possibility of Pra_Mai being a Plusle & Minun team was already debunked, unless any new information about the code or development of Brawl has cropped up since then that I missed.

 

[Jave]

You know, with her being in Smash Remix, what would it take for Marina to actually get in Smash Bros? Like to what level of new content would she need to get currently to get in?

The only way I could realistically see Marina ever happening is that she gets a big revival like Bayonetta did. As things stand now, her odds are legitimately zero. The only way to play her game legally is to own an N64 cart, as we don't even know how feasible an NSO release of Mischief Makers is, since we aren't even sure on who owns the Copyright.

 

[HyperSomari64]

and Crystal Dynamics, Taito and others for Square Enix.

They no longer own them

 

[CommanderZaktan]

This week is most likely the final spirit event of Smash Ultimate and I think it's Princess Peach's Showtime due to coming out this Friday.

 

[CannonStreak]

They no longer own them

Well, I edited some things out, but it seems odd. The reason I kept that in is because the site I looked up the information on still seemed to list Gex as one of the properties still owned by Square Enix. Of course, Gex's company, Crystal Dymanics, may be separate here, and the site I got the info from may not be accurate altogether.

So, thanks for that. I will edit that out.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

This week is most likely the final spirit event of Smash Ultimate and I think it's Princess Peach's Showtime due to coming out this Friday.

Guess it's time I boot up the game again. Been focused on TotK and a bunch of other games in my backlog lately, so if this is really the finale of the Spirit Events, I'll gladly take some time to tune in for it.

I still don't think we're due for any announcements of a new Smash game or an HD/Deluxe port of Ultimate any time soon, though (and the latter is something I'm starting to doubt will happen).

 

[CannonStreak]

Speaking of characters from Square Enix, or formerly of Square Enix, in this case, I have to know; if fans gave enough demand, how much do you all think Nintendo would want to approach a group like the Embracer Group to get Lara Croft from Tomb Raider into Smash Bros.? Just curious.

 

[HyperSomari64]

This week is most likely the final spirit event of Smash Ultimate and I think it's Princess Peach's Showtime due to coming out this Friday.

I predict that it's a mixed games event with:
1. Elephant Mario
2. Alear (Male/Female)
3. Fecto Elfilis
4. idk, the Sportsmates? Shez? that green-haired Rabbid? it can be anything. So i left it as a free space

Is that, or a Fire Emblem-only event

 

[CannonStreak]

So, about Marina...

With all the things the others have said that are NOT in her favor, I guess Marina is LITEYEARS away from being in Smash Bros.?

Puts up flame shield to try and burn all the objects being thrown his way by the others

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Have either of these things actually been confirmed?

I'm fairly certain that the possibility of Pra_Mai being a Plusle & Minun team was already debunked, unless any new information about the code or development of Brawl has cropped up since then that I missed.

Yes, those have been confirmed as the file names. It's impossible for it to mean Tetra. As I said, Sakurai would never use that misleading of a clear term. Every name is quite accurate to the purpose. If it says Sheik, he meant Sheik in the first place. It's purely a fan theory that it somehow was a weird codename for Tetra. Which doesn't even fit with his philosophies. Take a look at any other name, and they at least relate to the exact character. He doesn't generally even use codenames that "aren't exact" outside of a special case with Roy and it's not till Ultimate he starts using more generic names. Brawl was pretty much only using extremely accurate names at best(among character codenames). Which is also why Pra_Mai has little chance of meaning anything but the two Pokemon.

Pra_Mai was hard debunked to mean "RANDOM" as it matches nothing accurately(PushDustIn debunked this ages ago). It still matches with the concept of Plusle & Minun. It has not been debunked as a possibility. It's just people aren't sure on what it means at best. But looking at every other name, and despite being odd compared to the other Pokemon names, it still matches "exact naming" in some accurate way. That's a high consistency throughout the naming schemes. Though it doesn't entirely match the trophies, it's worth noting there's no actual other possibility either. But at least it still would be clearly accurate to how they're pronounced, which is a very big deal in Japanese. Besides that, the Trophies may have been named differently due to using its own naming style. Basically, Trophies are consistent with each other, but aren't consistent with Character Codenames(who only share a consistency with other Character Codenames). I wouldn't put too much stock into "it's not accurate to a later used Trophy" either. If they were playable, obviously the Trophy would be consistent. The fact they're not means it was likely not made with them being playable in mind. Why? Because they were scrapped really early.

Overall, while Toon Sheik is pretty clear on who it was, Pra_Mai is still very up in the air. It's just that the idea of them being the Pokemon is the sole sound explanation givable as nothing else is legitimately possible.

Random is always translated as “Omakase” for the other bit, namely how PushDustIn hard debunked the only other possible name that Pra_Mai could ever mean. Besides, people look too much at Ice Climbers, but they are completely separated characters in the game due to de-syncing. We don't know how Plusle & Minun would've worked at all. It may not have been split up characters in any way, as Banjo & Kazooie show is possible. That's probably more of what was being gone for, but also the fact it was bare data means they got nowhere on it beyond a placeholder. If they made it in, they easily could've been separated in the final game. Placeholders are odd.

 

[Noipoi]

This week is most likely the final spirit event of Smash Ultimate and I think it's Princess Peach's Showtime due to coming out this Friday.

If we keep saying it enough times eventually it’ll be true

 

[Ivander]

So, about Marina...

With all the things the others have said that are NOT in her favor, I guess Marina is LITEYEARS away from being in Smash Bros.?

Puts up flame shield to try and burn all the objects being thrown his way by the others

I thought the buzz was that she's nowhere near a lightyear of being in Smash Bros.

Spoiler

 

[SneakyLink]

This week is most likely the final spirit event of Smash Ultimate and I think it's Princess Peach's Showtime due to coming out this Friday.

I could also see them add say... Elephant Mario due to Wonder's recent release.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I could also see them add say... Elephant Mario due to Wonder's recent release.

Nah, Elephant Mario will be a new fighter instead. :V

 

[superprincess]

Nah, Elephant Mario will be a new fighter instead. :V

I mean in the extremely unlikely scenario where he happened, at least he'd be pretty unique

 

[CannonStreak]

You know what I think?

We need Laguna from Final Fantasy VIII in a Smash Bros. game as a playable character, and his theme, as shown here.

 

[Shinuto]

Imagine if this was somehow official and we lived in that timeline

or even JUST this in Smash 64

 

[Noipoi]

Imagine if this was somehow official and we lived in that timeline
View attachment 386619
or even JUST this in Smash 64
View attachment 386620

I'd wonder how Dark Samus was in the game 5 years before her creation

 

[Perkilator]

Actually, while we’re on the topic of alternate timelines: here’s a fantasy Smash roster I made recently using TierMaker, with fighters sorted by the Smash game I could see them appearing in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd wonder how Dark Samus was in the game 5 years before her creation

It's cool for a fan game, but I do wonder what we could've gotten in her place among potential clone choices, heh. Boshi, I guess?