Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[superprincess]

I love the art for TP Link but his model always looked kind of goofy in my opinion. I feel the same way about Link’s design in Smash 4. He had such a cool render but the actual in-game model had a weird looking face. I’m not sure if I’m in the minority here but I also think both Zelda and Ganondorf looked significantly better in Brawl than they did in Smash 4 despite both being based on their TP designs.

Oh absolutely, the TP designs looked way better in Brawl than SSB4 because the art style of the former fits them much better. SSB4's bright colors didn't do any favors to the TP designs. They all looked kinda goofy in that game, with the exception of maybe Zelda.

This is why I think they should've just replaced them with SS designs. SS Zelda especially would be a delight in Smash 4. SS Link looks kinda similar to TP, and Ganondorf doesn't even exist in that game so I'd have him replaced by Demise.

 

[Gorgonzales]

So....

Indie Reps fellas? Any contenders for the new Smash. Those who likely or otherwise obsecure?

I've been a bit of Shovel Knight recently so the guy is the mind. He was Assist Trophy already for Ultimate with a full-fledge model along with Sans.

I think those 2 are the indies who the biggest chances of getting in. Sans is the very few where the antagonist is the most popular than even the protag.

Also Reimu surprisingly had a big backing as well.

Sans/Shantae is my pick for most likely. Shovel Knight is up there too but I don't want him because I know that whatever the Smash team comes up with is gonna be inferior to his design in Rivals. As for who I'd like to see most? Peppino. He's such a funny character and a rushdown/grappler hybrid sounds like a super fun character to play in a platform fighter.

Wouldn't mind seeing Hat Kid or Hornet (and Quote for his seniority in indie gaming as a whole), but I don't think they're particularly likely.
...Happy 5th anniversary of Silksong being announced!

This is where I'd also show my support for Penny and Yo-Yo joining the fight, as I love this game's art direction and gameplay style... but only from the trailers and gameplay footage we've seen of it. I hope the game is good so I can give em my full support, but backing characters from games that aren't even out yet is a total crapshoot. I'm hoping this succeeds, I loved Sonic Mania and since this game is made by those devs I have high hopes for this. Rooting for Penny to become a household indie name.

 

[fogbadge]

I love the art for TP Link but his model always looked kind of goofy in my opinion. I feel the same way about Link’s design in Smash 4. He had such a cool render but the actual in-game model had a weird looking face. I’m not sure if I’m in the minority here but I also think both Zelda and Ganondorf looked significantly better in Brawl than they did in Smash 4 despite both being based on their TP designs.

thing I found odd with ganondorf in smash 4 was the he seemed to have all these really odd expressions. like the smash team forgot he wasn’t dedede

 

[Gengar84]

Sadly, I don’t have a ton of experience with many Indie games so I couldn’t name many outside of Smash. The main Indie games I have played are monster battling games like Nexomon and Coromon that take heavy inspiration from Pokemon. Those games have a few really cool designs that could be fun in Smash.

I think Brawlhala could be another fun idea to see how one of their characters could translate to Smash. There are a lot of really cool character designs in that game with my favorite being Mako. It’s also the only game that crosses over my two favorite things in Pro Wrestling and TMNT so that’s a plus.

I’ve never played the game but just going by design, I think Zagreus is pretty cool and we don’t have a Roguelike character yet so that could be interesting. My number one for the genre is Diablo but Zagreus would be another cool choice.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think Ultimate has the best Ganondorf design ever.

This is still peak Ganondorf:

Menacing, yet regal. Ornate, imposing armor. Not as gangly as OoT 'dorf. And not as weirdly fanservicey as TotK 'dorf.

It's basically TP 'dorf, but not as drab, with better hair, and no hole in his chest.

 

[Gengar84]

This is still peak Ganondorf:

View attachment 384880
Menacing, yet regal. Ornate, imposing armor. Not as gangly as OoT 'dorf. And not as weirdly fanservicey as TotK 'dorf.

It's basically TP 'dorf, but not as drab, with better hair, and no hole in his chest.

I’m a big fan of this Ganondorf too. He’s my second favorite behind Ultimate’s. I do agree that he’s an improvement to his TP design and is more visually interesting to me.

 

[NintenRob]

Up until Ultimate, Ganondorfs look and depiction somehow continued to get worse and worse with each game.

Part of that is simply preference for Oot Ganondorf TP Ganondorf so preferring Melee Ganondorf to Brawl (Though despite being more of a clone, I standby that Melee dorf better captures in cocky personality. Also I hate TP voice)

Then there was the jump from Brawl to Smash 3DS. Ganondorf has a hole in his chest. I don't care if it's a neat reference, I don't like it. The model is obviously lower quality but given what the high quality model looks like, perhaps that's a good thing

My god, what happened?? His face is like clay. This was easily one of the worst depictions of Ganondorf. He's so.... Disfigured somehow? His glow up in Ultimate was so appreciated and so needed

 

[fogbadge]

Up until Ultimate, Ganondorfs look and depiction somehow continued to get worse and worse with each game.

Part of that is simply preference for Oot Ganondorf TP Ganondorf so preferring Melee Ganondorf to Brawl (Though despite being more of a clone, I standby that Melee dorf better captures in cocky personality. Also I hate TP voice)

Then there was the jump from Brawl to Smash 3DS. Ganondorf has a hole in his chest. I don't care if it's a neat reference, I don't like it. The model is obviously lower quality but given what the high quality model looks like, perhaps that's a good thing

My god, what happened?? His face is like clay. This was easily one of the worst depictions of Ganondorf. He's so.... Disfigured somehow? His glow up in Ultimate was so appreciated and so needed

thats it, that’s what I was talking about

 

[Shinuto]

So....

Indie Reps fellas? Any contenders for the new Smash. Those who likely or otherwise obsecure?

I've been a bit of Shovel Knight recently so the guy is the mind. He was Assist Trophy already for Ultimate with a full-fledge model along with Sans.

I think those 2 are the indies who the biggest chances of getting in. Sans is the very few where the antagonist is the most popular than even the protag.

Also Reimu surprisingly had a big backing as well.

I want Shantae.

 

[Gengar84]

Up until Ultimate, Ganondorfs look and depiction somehow continued to get worse and worse with each game.

Part of that is simply preference for Oot Ganondorf TP Ganondorf so preferring Melee Ganondorf to Brawl (Though despite being more of a clone, I standby that Melee dorf better captures in cocky personality. Also I hate TP voice)

Then there was the jump from Brawl to Smash 3DS. Ganondorf has a hole in his chest. I don't care if it's a neat reference, I don't like it. The model is obviously lower quality but given what the high quality model looks like, perhaps that's a good thing

My god, what happened?? His face is like clay. This was easily one of the worst depictions of Ganondorf. He's so.... Disfigured somehow? His glow up in Ultimate was so appreciated and so needed

I agree. I really dislike how Ganondorf looked in Smash 4. The other members of the Triforce trio were downgrades from Brawl too in my opinion. Ganondorf’s reveal in Ultimate was just as exciting to me as had I gotten one of my most wanted newcomers. Ganondorf went from my least favorite of his designs to my favorite.

 

[Will]

This is still peak Ganondorf:

View attachment 384880
Menacing, yet regal. Ornate, imposing armor. Not as gangly as OoT 'dorf. And not as weirdly fanservicey as TotK 'dorf.

It's basically TP 'dorf, but not as drab, with better hair, and no hole in his chest.

L’Orealdorf isn’t real, he can’t hurt you.

L’Orealdorf:

thing I found odd with ganondorf in smash 4 was the he seemed to have all these really odd expressions. like the smash team forgot he wasn’t dedede

Twilight Princess Ganondorf has always made weird expressions, imo.

Ganondorf has a hole in his chest. I don't care if it's a neat reference, I don't like it.

Neat reference to what? It’s part of his design because of his failed execution. Remember the Great Sage and his magic macguffin sword?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That chest hole is just being accurate. Though yeah, the model could look better quality, I find his TP design great. It's highly intimidating, despite the silly sword.

His OOT design is cool, but doesn't have the same factor.

Now if only we could see cameos(at least) of ALTTP Ganon, an excellent designed pig form. We finally got a normal bipedal one as a Boss/Final Smash, but.

 

[Gengar84]

My only issue with Ganondorf’s TP design is that his armor is a little generic, at least in comparison to his OoT design. He looks to have typical dark knight armor, which is cool but he doesn’t stand out as much to me. He reminds me a lot of the judges from Final Fantasy XII. In my opinion, he just looks so unique in OoT and I can’t really think of anything I could compare his design to from another game.

 

[NintenRob]

Neat reference to what? It’s part of his design because of his failed execution. Remember the Great Sage and his magic macguffin sword?

A neat reference to the stab wound in TP? There's not much more to it than that. Although he has it for most of his time in TP, he's not actually introduced with it as he hasn't been stabbed yet. And as such, his official render for the game doesn't actually have the wound.

This is also likely why he doesn't have the scar in Brawl or Hyrule Warriors

 

[Will]

A neat reference to the stab wound in TP? There's not much more to it than that. Although he has it for most of his time in TP, he's not actually introduced with it as he hasn't been stabbed yet. And as such, his official render for the game doesn't actually have the wound.

Idk Rob, it’s right there.

 

[NintenRob]

View attachment 384887

Idk Rob, it’s right there.

That's his official artwork that only came out with TP HD. Prior to that, he only had an official render which did not have the scar.

Generally speaking, the scar is not considered a standard part of this design

It's generally rare for scar to be there

As they generally prefer the more standard look without it

Even the most recent render of TP Ganondorf doesn't have the scar

 

[Will]

That's his official artwork that only came out with TP HD. Prior to that, he only had an official render which did not have the scar.

Generally speaking, the scar is not considered a standard part of this design
View attachment 384891
It's generally rare for scar to be there
View attachment 384892
As they generally prefer the more standard look without it
View attachment 384893

Even the most recent render of TP Ganondorf doesn't have the scar
View attachment 384894

I already knew you’d start with the “first” TP render and I hard disagree with that first picture, it’s clearly there. Look to the left of that hilt in the sword, and behind his hands, that’s the scar.

I don’t care about the non-Zelda appearances, all I cared about was the incorrect statement that it was never in the original promotional material. I do consider the SSBB version to have a scar, but it clearly isn’t stylized like normal.

 

[NintenRob]

I already knew you’d start with the “first” TP render and I hard disagree with that first picture, it’s clearly there. Look to the left of that hilt in the sword, and behind his hands, that’s the scar.

View attachment 384895

I don’t care about the non-Zelda appearances, all I cared about was the incorrect statement that it was never in the original promotional material. I do consider the SSBB version to have a scar, but it clearly isn’t stylized like normal.

Fair enough, but my point still stands that it's not generally considered the standard look for the guy.

 

[Will]

Fair enough, but my point still stands that it's not generally considered the standard look for the guy.

Then they spit on the source material. End of story, I guess. I like it, it looks badass. To each their own.

 

[fogbadge]

My only issue with Ganondorf’s TP design is that his armor is a little generic, at least in comparison to his OoT design. He looks to have typical dark knight armor, which is cool but he doesn’t stand out as much to me. He reminds me a lot of the judges from Final Fantasy XII. In my opinion, he just looks so unique in OoT and I can’t really think of anything I could compare his design to from another game.

View attachment 384889

let's not bring up 12

 

[Gengar84]

let's not bring up 12

FFXII was the last numerical Final Fantasy game I ever beat. I got near the end of XIII but my X-Box died on me and I never went back. I bought XV but only got around 10-15 hours in before I stopped playing it. I don’t own a PS5 so I never played XVI. Since XII, the only Final Fantasy I’ve actually completed was VII Remake.

 

[fogbadge]

FFXII was the last numerical Final Fantasy game I ever beat. I got near the end of XIII but my X-Box died on me and I never went back. I bought XV but only got around 10-15 hours in before I stopped playing it. I don’t own a PS5 so I never played XVI. Since XII, the only Final Fantasy I’ve actually completed was VII Remake.

have you tried 4?

 

[Gengar84]

have you tried 4?

Yeah, I played the DS version of IV. I think I got to the final dungeon but couldn’t quite finish it because the bosses were getting a bit difficult. Thats how I played III too. I actually didn’t start getting into the series until X. I loved it so much that I went backwards to play many of the others. Unfortunately, the series hasn’t clicked much with me since FFX.

I think I spent over a thousand dollars total on Final Fantasy figures around that time. The Play Arts figures were actually reasonably priced back then at $25-$35 per figure. Once they exceeded $35 I couldn’t justify buying any more. Now they’re anywhere between $100-$200 which is crazy to me. I think it was safe to call me a huge fan of the series at that time lol.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I played the DS version of IV. I think I got to the final dungeon but couldn’t quite finish it because the bosses were getting a bit difficult. Thats how I played III too. I actually didn’t start getting into the series until X. I loved it so much that I went backwards to play many of the others. Unfortunately, the series hasn’t clicked much with me since FFX. I think I spent over a thousand dollars total on Final Fantasy figures around that time. The Play Arts figures were actually reasonably priced back then at $25-$35 per figure. Once they exceeded $35 I couldn’t justify buying any more. Now they’re anywhere between $100-$200 which is crazy to me.

sounds to me you’ve played the best ones

 

[Gengar84]

sounds to me you’ve played the best ones

I think my personal ranking of the mainline games I’ve played would be something like this:

IX > X > VII > VI > IV > VIII > III > XII > XIII > XV

I don’t really dislike any of them but I did have a harder time really getting into the ones further down the list and the ones at the top are among my favorite games ever.

 

[fogbadge]

I think my personal ranking of the mainline games I’ve played would be something like this:

IX > X > VII > VI > IV > VIII > III > XII > XIII > XV

I don’t really dislike any of them but I did have a harder time really getting into the ones further down the list and the ones at the top are among my favorite games ever.

well can’t blame you for having 12 near the bottom, vaan was very grating

 

[Will]

I think my personal ranking of the mainline games I’ve played would be something like this:

IX > X > VII > VI > IV > VIII > III > XII > XIII > XV

I don’t really dislike any of them but I did have a harder time really getting into the ones further down the list and the ones at the top are among my favorite games ever.

Have you played XVI?

Because I forgot XVI was a game. Apparently it came out last year.

 

[Gengar84]

well can’t blame you for having 12 near the bottom, vaan was very grating

I didn’t care for Vaan either but Balthier and Basch were cool. Balthier reminds me a lot of Dunban, who is one of my favorite Xenoblade characters.

Have you played XVI?

Because I forgot XVI was a game. Apparently it came out last year.

I haven’t played it because I don’t own a PS5. If I ever buy one, it’s on my list of games I want to try out. Its hard to justify such an expensive console for only a few games that interest me sadly.

 

[Oracle Link]

Better than not coming back at all I suppose, which is my worry for a few of my favorites.

I mean i in general fear that toon link might not come back in a reboot and im stuck with Champion link! (which would suck)
I also like Lucas and he might be cut!

 

[Gengar84]

I mean i in general fear that toon link might not come back in a reboot and im stuck with Champion link! (which would suck)
I also like Lucas and he might be cut!

I feel like I’m almost guaranteed to lose OoT Ganondorf. He and Sephiroth are my two favorite Smash characters and both are seen as likely cuts. Maybe that’s why I don’t like to think about it lol.

 

[superprincess]

I think the conversation about cuts being so morbid and anxiety-inducing isn't normal... I'm coming from a position where half of my favorites are very safe, but the other half not so much. Yeah, losing Daisy, Rosalina, Palutena, and Bayonetta would suck but I'm sure some if not all my other favorites would return.

Hyperfixating on what you're gonna lose is just not the right mindset for anything. Sure, we might lose a couple dozen fighters. But that would, in return, give the developers the time and resources to make up for that in other areas. I've decided to look at character cuts from a "glass half full" POV and the results are very satisfying so far.

 

[Oracle Link]

I feel like I’m almost guaranteed to lose OoT Ganondorf. He and Sephiroth are my two favorite Smash characters and both are seen as likely cuts. Maybe that’s why I don’t like to think about it lol.

True but atleast TOTK Ganondorf fills a similar niche!
Again i would be fine with some other young and cartoony link taking over but that is even less likely!

 

[Quillion]

I haven’t played it because I don’t own a PS5. If I ever buy one, it’s on my list of games I want to try out. Its hard to justify such an expensive console for only a few games that interest me sadly.

You know, considering how little exclusives the PS5 and XSX have and how many games are shared between them and their previous-gen predecessors, I think we're hitting a console power plateau.

Either that, or AAA devs remain too focused on graphics and spectacle to direct that additional power to smoother performance and livelier worlds.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Neat reference to what? It’s part of his design because of his failed execution. Remember the Great Sage and his magic macguffin sword?

It's part of his design because he literally emerges from his execution to his final boss battle.

It doesn't make sense that Smashdorf wouldn't have had the hole fixed.

I think my personal ranking of the mainline games I’ve played would be something like this:

IX > X > VII > VI > IV > VIII > III > XII > XIII > XV

6>7>4>10>5>...eh, who cares.

 

[Oracle Link]

I see a lot of love for Ganon currently!
Im just quickly throwing in there is one thing Ganon(dorf) Lacks!
TOYS not figures not statues TOYS
barley any Plushies or lower end Action figures have been made of him!
I know hes more scary but still give our Gerudo Pig some love!

And im lucky i have an old WW Ganondorf in big! (He doesnt have his cool swords! sadly) So i atleast have someone for link to fight!
I hope this really late wave of totk merch means we get that Ganondorf in plush form and as a 10-20 Bucks Action figure that i dont fell awful for treating roughly by driving (probably Toon Links) Sword thorugh him!

Also hello give us a giant pig ganon plush unlike giant octoroks you could use that in scale with smol links and zeldas!

It's part of his design because he literally emerges from his execution to his final boss battle.

It doesn't make sense that Smashdorf wouldn't have had the hole fixed.

Wasnt that hole fixed in Brawl i personally also prefered it fixed!

 

[SPEN18]

I'll come out and say that the Smash team has never made a cut that I took legitimate issue with at the time. Granted, cuts haven't even been on the table since base Smash 4, and the number of cuts is likely to be unprecedented, so the history of cuts doesn't tell us everything. But all you can do is trust that they know what they're doing when it comes to setting priorities, which I think they mostly do.

 

[Oracle Link]

I'll come out and say that the Smash team has never made a cut that I took legitimate issue with at the time. Granted, cuts haven't even been on the table since base Smash 4, and the number of cuts is likely to be unprecedented, so the history of cuts doesn't tell us everything. But all you can do is trust that they know what they're doing when it comes to setting priorities, which I think they mostly do.

I mean i hope if they keep the triforce trio, toon link and the 3 kirby charakters ill be satisfied enough than a potntial newcomer for both and that be great!
Remind me that i HAVE To rcord reactions from now on! thats just easy content!

 

[Stratos]

I don't know how you guys are going to take what I'm writing, but I'm not sure if I'd ever want a character from the Temtem video game to come, because I'm thinking about it, but which Temtem would be the right character to come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't know how you guys are going to take what I'm writing, but I'm not sure if I'd ever want a character from the Temtem video game to come, because I'm thinking about it, but which Temtem would be the right character to come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series?

So you don't want it to happen.....but you want to speculate about it.....?

Ok, but why, then?
Not like there's any reason to assume it WOULD happen to begin with.

 

[Quillion]

So you don't want it to happen.....but you want to speculate about it.....?

View attachment 384899


Ok, but why, then?
Not like there's any reason to assume it WOULD happen to begin with.

I mean tbf, there are some things I expect from Smash that I simultaneously dread, such as Fire Emblem and Pokémon continuing to have "obligatory recent rep" and Xenoblade joining that club. I guess that's reason to speculate.

Anyway, have any of the Pokémon "clones" (using that term loosely considering some clone in terms of mon design only and others in gameplay) that have arisen in Pokémon's current "dark age" made a splash other than Palworld?