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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

NintenRob

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I want a true successor to Smash Run. Throw me an arena, let me fight as many enemies as I can. Smash Run was easily the best mode added to Smash since the original only let down slightly by it's final battle.


Like imagine, Smash Run, but Battle Royale. Where you have to KO a bunch of other players in the arena. While regular enemies can be fought to give you an upgrade. But then you risk getting KOd by them.
 

Gorgonzales

Smash Ace
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Jan 23, 2021
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Forgotten Isle
I want a true successor to Smash Run. Throw me an arena, let me fight as many enemies as I can. Smash Run was easily the best mode added to Smash since the original only let down slightly by it's final battle.


Like imagine, Smash Run, but Battle Royale. Where you have to KO a bunch of other players in the arena. While regular enemies can be fought to give you an upgrade. But then you risk getting KOd by them.
I second this. Smash Run is the best single player mode this series has ever received. Better than World of Light, better than Subspace, it's infinitely repayable and has enough variation to never get old. It makes great use of Smash's crossover aspect with all of its enemies, and the gameplay loop is incredibly enticing. I love collecting those little power ups and increasing my stats over the course of a run, feeling my character actually improving in real time.

I would say the original was held back by its inability to interact with other players, rather than the final battle. I could honestly take or leave the final battle; I mean, the mode has to have some kind of conclusion. I will say that I really like the race final battles and I think you should be able to select what kind of final battle you'll end up doing.

This mode is so close to perfection, all it needs is to be put on console (local splitscreen and online play would be amazing), have the ability to choose the final battle, and maybe multiple maps, but the map we had to begin with is already varied enough that I'd say that it may not even be necessary.
 

Louie G.

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Agreed. It has been done so many times, and I don't think it ends well most of the time, does it not?
A lot of speculation doesn't especially end on a positive note, because there is always room for disagreement. That's kinda just something you need to be prepared for. In this case it's telling people something they won't want to hear. I can understand not finding it that interesting to discuss, but it is one of the most pressing questions in the air about Smash's future and it's inevitable that people will want to talk about it and prepare themselves for the possibility.

I actually don't think we discuss this as often as people say we do, it's usually just this same banter about whether or not cuts will happen at all. That conversation gets blockaded by wishful thinking before we get to talk about anyone specific. Personally I just like trying to figure out what our next roster could look like - whether that means discussing new additions, or cuts, it's all part of the code that I'm looking to crack. I wish we could have a serious discussion about this without getting derailed with "well, we don't NEED to cut anyone!" I'm sorry, but as much as this is all just for fun I also don't think we need to create a hugbox where we just don't confront the reality of our situation either. This topic coming up is synonymous to "Next Smash Discussion", it always has been.

It's not as if we don't talk new ideas and what we want to see, anyway. Every couple pages we do the whole list your most wanted characters thing. I enjoy the positive discussion, I just don't enjoy how negatively people respond to the other side of the coin when it's just as natural of a conversation piece.
 
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Louie G.

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speaking of smash run, anyone got any suggestions for new enemies?
The obvious answers are Octarians, Enemy Octolings, etc. Splatoon offers a lot of good potential that naturally wasn't present in Smash 4. Also, Minecraft mobs - that one is kind of another no brainer. And various Slimes, if Dragon Quest sticks around.

Mario Wonder introduced a slew of great new enemies, I think it'd be fun to see some of them implemented into Smash Run gameplay. Notably thinking about Maw Maw and Skedaddler, the latter maybe holding some really valuable enhancements. Random pulls from unexpected and unrepresented series are appreciated too - I know the Sneaky Spirits were there for a different reason, but I'd like to see that precedent followed up on.

Maybe some silly ones like Eggplant Wizard too, some really disruptive and unique stuff to keep things zany and fun.
 
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SPEN18

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I'd say we have pretty good evidence there's something cooking either right now or in the very near future...

But regardless, I think it's important to include both aspects in the discussion, additions and subtractions. Maybe DLC, a string of standalone add-on packs, has trained some of us to think of characters as more independent of each other, but for a base game especially the roster is better thought of as a whole. They have limited resources, so every piece of content has to be weighed relative to whatever else they could expend that effort on, be it more older content or other newer content.

Yes, it will be much easier to speak about specific characters' chances once we actually see some of the new game, but that shouldn't stop us from having productive discussion right now. We can still frame discussion relative to various roster size scenarios, and talk about characters' chances relative to each other.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 30, 2023
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I think cuts discussions are boring because they usually amount to: "Mario and Luigi are more essential than Bowser Jr. who's more essential than Piranha Plant", "Ike is more popular than Corrin", "Splatoon gets more games than F-Zero", or "Square Enix is stingy". Those kinds of arguments, which... Duh. We already knew.
And then they could easily decide to keep Piranha Plant because of how unique it is, or to ditch Ike since his moveset has been sacked by quite a few later characters who all have more going on than him. If they approach it from inside Smash as opposed to outside Smash that would kinda make sense, no?
But nobody wants to lose Ike and talking about him (or any other character) in these terms is just unpleasant.

Anyways. Single player modes!
I really like World of Light but I feel like they only scratched the true potential of its format.
Add more variety to the challenges. Make it so you don't only encounter fights, but also short platforming stages, Break the Targets, gauntlets of non-playable enemies like those in Smash Run, make some challenges only accessible (or only winnable) by certain characters (so that you'd have to unlock the right character and come back later to a specific challenge), add a score system and make it so that you'd need to reach a certain score in specific challenges to unlock a new fighter or a new part of the map, add more bosses, let the player pick a party of characters that alternate after the previous one is KO'd, add more in-map puzzles like those in the Zelda and Castlevania sections in World of Light, add some cutscenes that would use the in-game engine so they don't have to come up with a specific plot like in SSE, add new sections with the DLC characters to better integrate their content compared to Ultimate's additional Spirit Boards...
Basically, make it WoL x Melee's Adventure Mode x Event Matches x Break the Targets x SSE x Smash Run with a score system.
What could go wrong?
 

Gorgonzales

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speaking of smash run, anyone got any suggestions for new enemies?
now THIS is a discussion I can get behind!

Goonies (Yoshi) - An enemy that you can either KO for stat boosts like normal, or you can ride on it to get to hard-to reach heights.


Yellow Wollywog (Pikmin) - Leaps up, hangs in the air for a split second, and comes crashing down. Can be painful to deal with if it buries you and other enemies are around to finish the job.


Armored Cannon Larva (Pikmin) - Spits out big rolling boulders that mow through anything in their path, enemy or player. They typically spawn in elevated areas, with the boulders rolling down slopes. Its presence is indicated by these boulders (and the stats left behind from defeated enemies), creating a sort of obstacle course you need to maneuver around when scaling that area to reach the beast itself.



Witch (Minecraft) - Throws potions that splash on the ground and temporarily disable the player's current best stat for either 30 seconds or until it's defeated.


Lynel (Zelda) - This is one of those incredibly tough pseudo-boss enemies. If you see it and aren't prepared, run. Either that, or take it down for massive stat boosts. It has several attacks that do massive damage, so be wary.
1706567242646.png



Wailord (Pokemon) - A huge "enemy" the size of Temple that spawns in normally empty parts of the map. Whenever Wailord shows up, all players will be alerted of its presence like any other event. To defeat(?) it, players must land on top of it and defeat the horde of enemies on its back. Throughout this battle, Wailord will periodically tilt from side to side, thrash violently, or blow water out of its blowhole (which is an instant KO if you touch it). Once all the enemies are defeated, Wailord will blow water out of its blowhole one last time, with three giant stat boots coming out, and then drift into the background.



Medic Robot (Team Fortress) - Heals the strongest enemy in the vicinity with its medigun, creating a beam of healing energy that links between itself and the enemy. Prioritize taking this thing out first, rather than the enemy it's healing; you'll save yourself a lot of trouble that way.

 
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BritishGuy54

Smash Journeyman
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410
On the topic of Smash speculation, whenever we get a Smash announcement, I wonder what newcomer(s) will be announced alongside the game. I can't think of any really obvious picks like Inkling or Bowser, or characters that people had wanted to see for a while like Meta Knight, Pit, Mega Man, or Wario. (maybe Geno, but I'm not sure if he'd be the type of character to be revealed when the game is first announced; I could be wrong, though)
That’s a good point. Geno is most certainly a DLC character next game though (and that depends on if Square Enix plays ball next game).

The only really ‘new’ franchise I can think of is Ring Fit. But I don’t think that would make sense, as it feels more like a mid-point character to be announced between the initial announcement and release.

Anyways. Single player modes!
I’d be fine with some sort of hybrid adventure mode between Subspace and World of Light. A majority of traditional fights, but also some platformer levels that could have challenges within them. It could be a neat chance to bring back stuff like Break The Targets or Board The Platforms in a different way, or even something new we haven’t seen before.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Medic Robot (Team Fortress) - Heals the strongest enemy in the vicinity with its medigun, creating a beam of healing energy that links between itself and the enemy. Prioritize taking this thing out first, rather than the enemy it's healing; you'll save yourself a lot of trouble that way.


Oh, you're evil.
I love it.
 

Louie G.

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On the topic of Smash speculation, whenever we get a Smash announcement, I wonder what newcomer(s) will be announced alongside the game
I missed this post earlier, I was thinking about the same just the other day. Because I liked how Inkling was kinda like... the "main character" of Ultimate for a bit. And then Villager got to be the headliner for Smash 4, but yeah I really don't know if we've seen any new series or characters come out at nearly an equivalent level.

I agree with GoldenYuiitusin GoldenYuiitusin 's sentiment about Waluigi being an earlier reveal, but he's probably more of a Ridley-esque layup reveal rather than being in the main trailer. And third parties will generally be in a similar position, so that's a no for them too. Although maybe we could see something like Brawl's reveal again where we get a fun little flurry of Nintendo characters thrown at us all at once? I just feel like a lot of the more likely choices for us to see are supporting characters not quiiiiite at the status of someone like Meta Knight or Wario.

I think I'm just gonna tentatively say Tom Nook. He's a big name with maybe not quite as much "hype" around him to sustain a flashy trailer, so he could be a fun little side note sort of reveal that doesn't eclipse everything else going on while also being kind of a no brainer. Ring Fit was mentioned before too, but yeah it's just not really jumping out at the same level as Animal Crossing or Splatoon. It's hard to explain but I think everyone understands what I mean.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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I agree with GoldenYuiitusin GoldenYuiitusin 's sentiment about Waluigi being an earlier reveal, but he's probably more of a Ridley-esque layup reveal rather than being in the main trailer.
So essentially the "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE~" type like :snake: :4megaman: :ultridley: . Though Ultimate was more spaced out between teaser and full reveal in comparison.....
 

Louie G.

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So essentially the "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE~" type like :snake: :4megaman: :ultridley: . Though Ultimate was more spaced out between teaser and full reveal in comparison.....
Oh yeah, that's a good point. I guess Ultimate's situation was a big unique in that respect, but yeah I do think Waluigi is a good candidate for that "encore" style of reveal being both a really well known character (like Daisy, also revealed that day) and also one of the most highly requested (like Ridley). Unless they have a big third party character to reveal there instead, he's in an ideal position for that.

I'm not sure if I can think of a third party that I consider viable for base roster that I also think would be quite an "E3 worthy" Snake or Mega Man scaled "wait there's more" addition - just to say a lot of the more groundbreaking stuff, particularly anything western, is probably DLC-bound. Maybe someone new from Sega or Capcom? Resident Evil or Monster Hunter would be pretty substantial, or someone new from Sonic / Street Fighter.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 30, 2023
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435
I feel like Geno would work decently well as the next game's Megaman/Ridley.

The Villager/Inkling is more tricky... Those were new(ish) Nintendo series that people wanted and expected to get a character. But there's no series like that on Switch.
So I'd say Waluigi or Toad.

Or. Bomberman.
3rd party characters aren't unexpected anymore, Bomberman in particular isn't an outlandish choice at all, he's super recognizable and someone people want while also not super mindblowing as a choice.
 

Ivander

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Dec 1, 2014
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10,466
I want a true successor to Smash Run. Throw me an arena, let me fight as many enemies as I can. Smash Run was easily the best mode added to Smash since the original only let down slightly by it's final battle.


Like imagine, Smash Run, but Battle Royale. Where you have to KO a bunch of other players in the arena. While regular enemies can be fought to give you an upgrade. But then you risk getting KOd by them.
Like I said not too long ago:
Man, I miss Smash Run and the Mooks you can fight. Even if they don't bring back Smash Run, bringing back the Mooks and using them as parts of Spirit Battles Classic Mode, special World of Light platforming sections similar to Cuphead, have them potentially invade Smash Battles similar to the enemies in Melee when they sometimes appeared after boxes or barrels were destroyed, etc, would make those modes more replayable. Heck, even a Gauntlet/Tower-like mode where you continuously fight against Mooks and Bosses on Smash stages until you are defeated would be great. Fight against Mooks every 9 stages than fight an Assist Trophy or Boss every 10 stages? Sign me up.
Seriously, bring back Mooks.
speaking of smash run, anyone got any suggestions for new enemies?
  1. Legend of Zelda - Bokoblins, Moblins, Lynels and Guardians from Breath of the Wild
  2. Donkey Kong - Zingers, Klobbers, Klaptraps, Kudgel.
  3. Metroid - Klaidas, Muzby, Space Pirates, Omega Metroid
  4. Kirby - Knuckle Joe, Simirror, Sword Knight, Blade Knight.
  5. Star Fox - Aparoids
  6. Earthbound - Lil'UFOs, Titanic Ant, Store Mook
  7. Fire Emblem - Risen Soldier, Revenant(Awakening), Faceless, Demonic Beasts.
  8. Xenoblade - Mechons, Telethia, Antols, Volffs, Gogols, Territorial Rotbart
  9. Splatoon - Octarians, Salmonoids.
  10. Sonic the Hedgehog - Motobug, Buzz Bomber, Splicers, Grounders, etc.
  11. Castlevania - Axe Armors, Armor Knights, Ghosts, Medusa Heads, Werewolf
  12. Banjo & Kazooie - Gruntlings, Buzz Bomb
  13. Kingdom Hearts - Shadow Heartless, Soldier Heartless, Large Body Heartless.
  14. Dragon Quest - Slimes, Drackys, Slime Knights, Slime King, Metal Slime, Hack-o-Saurus.
  15. Final Fantasy - Cactaurs, Magic Pots, Marlboros
  16. Minecraft - Creepers, Skeletons, Spiders, Ghasts.
 

BuckleyTim

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 11, 2019
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Medic Robot (Team Fortress) - Heals the strongest enemy in the vicinity with its medigun, creating a beam of healing energy that links between itself and the enemy. Prioritize taking this thing out first, rather than the enemy it's healing; you'll save yourself a lot of trouble that way.


I respect anyone who entertains the idea of TF2 in Smash. They don't stand a chance, but 20 years of watching Gmod animations laced with Nintendo music makes it impossible for me to separate the game from other scrimblo bimblos.
 

Louie G.

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I respect anyone who entertains the idea of TF2 in Smash. They don't stand a chance, but 20 years of watching Gmod animations laced with Nintendo music makes it impossible for me to separate the game from other scrimblo bimblos.
I feel like it's a distant third if Nintendo were to ever humor the idea of Valve content in Smash, somewhere behind Portal and Half Life, but TF2 is a really special game for me and alongside Smash had to be one of the greatest unifying multiplayer experiences for me and my friends. So seeing those worlds collide would fill me with unspeakable joy, it remains one of my pipe dream-iest of pipe dreams. I think out of any of the mercs I'd go for Demoman, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense over someone like Scout or Heavy. He was always my favorite and I think his sheer range of weapons and explosives would make him one of the most compelling.

On a previous note though, Portal content in Smash would be pretty neat too right? It's one of the only Valve properties to have any presence on Nintendo consoles and does just kind of have that strange, innovative Nintendo-y flair to it. I don't really hedge my bets on it, but I think it goes underrepresented in the discussion of western third parties and even within the scope of Valve characters in favor of Gordon or Heavy.
 
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CannonStreak

Supersonic Warrior
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So, besides Waluigi, who do you think might be good first party characters to announce as newcomers for the next Smash Bros.?
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Journeyman
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435
Crackpot hopium-fueled theory time:
Nintendo just filed multiple trademarks for the GameCube controller.

People are saying it's for a GC VC, but this late in Switch's lifetime, with Nintendo clearly preferring to charge full price for the GC games they actually rerelease, and with TTYD, the Pikmin games, Baten Kaitos and its majesty Metroid Prime all not being able to be part of it? Naaaaaaah.

This is clearly going to be the GC controller you wire to your Switch 2 to play Ultimate DX.
Either that, or even better, the controller for F-Zero GX HD 😎
 

Laniv

Smash Champion
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Apr 20, 2014
Messages
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speaking of smash run, anyone got any suggestions for new enemies?
Donkey Kong: Klaptraps, acting as they do as Assist Trophies. Klobbers appear in three different colors, disguising themselves as barrels. Green ones simply run into fighters to push them into pits, yellow ones make the player drop stat boosts, and gray ones will temporarily reduce a random stat to zero.

Zelda: Either Lynels or Guardians as powerful enemies like Bonkers or Bulborb were. Guardians chase the player and fire a very telegraphed laser that deals heavy damaage. Lynels attack with vicious sword swipes and shooting a bow and arrow, both of with can hit and defeat other enemies.

Splatoon: Various Salmonids, all of which trail sickly green ink behind them as they move, slowing players down. Chums are the standard type, Smallfries are fast and weak, attacking in small groups, and Cohocks, are bigger, slower, and more powerful. Snatchers will also appear on occasion, dealing no damage but attempting to steal items and stray stat boosts.

Dragon Quest: Who else but Slimes? They hop around and try to flip to attack players. King Slimes will also appear, being bigger, slower, and stronger than their diminutive cousins. Of course, a Metal Slime will rarely appear, moving quickly and reflecting attacks, but providing a huge boost to all stats should you defeat one.
 

Louie G.

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So, besides Waluigi, who do you think might be good first party characters to announce as newcomers for the next Smash Bros.?
I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point, but Tom Nook and an additional original Splatoon character not limited to Octoling. Could either be a new weapon loadout for Octoling to create a largely original moveset, or Octoling could be an echo fighter / semiclone with room for a completely new character on top of that (Idols, DJ Octavio). These two series are the ones I would put some sort of money down on seeing substantial growth next game.

And then on top of that is just a slew of other options. Unrepresented IPs, fun retro pulls, additional Mario or Zelda characters... Pikmin and Xenoblade have seen enough success as of late to humor Oatchi and Noah and/or Mio for sure. I'm pretty optimistic about our potential here, spanning from fairly recent characters and well beyond. And there are still a few decently popular fan picks outside of Waluigi like Isaac or Bandana Dee if they so choose.
 
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SPEN18

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For the first newcomer revealed, it's tempting to say an Animal Crossing or Splatoon rep, but since those have already led off the reveals before, I feel they might save those for later and kick things off with something else. Wouldn't be surprised to see Nook or Octoling as the first newcomer, though.

Waluigi seems like a pretty straightforward first character.

Though for some reason, at this particular moment I am strangely feeling like Rauru or another BotW/TotK rep could work as a first newcomer.
 

fogbadge

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Alright here’s a smash run enemy I’d like to see: Smoglings from chibi-robo. Small black orbs on legs that ran at you and spray smog. Pretty weak but every now and then you find a pink Smogling that when beaten does damage to nearby enemies and drops more power ups
 

DarthEnderX

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Nov 10, 2014
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I’m good with never discussing cuts again. Whether that’s speculating who gets cut or complaining that I don’t want cuts. I just don’t find the topic particularly interesting and I’d rather just speculate on characters I’d love to see added.
Agreed.

I’ll concede that cuts are inevitable at some point because the roster can’t expand forever, I just don’t like to focus on that.
I'll concede that cuts will probably happen eventually, and that the roster won't expand forever. But not that the roster can’t expand forever.

I want a true successor to Smash Run. Throw me an arena, let me fight as many enemies as I can. Smash Run was easily the best mode added to Smash since the original only let down slightly by it's final battle.

Like imagine, Smash Run, but Battle Royale. Where you have to KO a bunch of other players in the arena. While regular enemies can be fought to give you an upgrade. But then you risk getting KOd by them.
I suggest this often.

Anything that gives normal enemies a place to shine in Smash that's not as Fighters gets a big thumbs up from me.
 
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