Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[YoshiandToad]

I still say have Daisy and Waluigi have similar movesets based around sports and a few unique attributes with Daisy playing it straight and Waluigi being a corrupted cheating version of her skills.

For example;
Daisy can have a tennis based fast serve projectile(with a Super Ball reference for Super Mario Land references) whilst Waluigi has a slower serve, but rather than a tennis ball/super ball, he launches a bomb towards the opponent.
Daisy can have a super fast boxing punch, whilst Waluigi throws punches from afar with an extendo glove keeping his distance from his opponent, etc

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'm taking a break from Ridley to do a Porky fighter model.
Side view

Spoiler

Size comparison with some other characters I want plus Bowser, Samus and Kirby

Spoiler

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Update on characters I drew.

Spoiler

Hey, I have enough for bingo now.

 

[DNeon]

Update on characters I drew.

Spoiler

View attachment 143871

Hey, I have enough for bingo now.

Only ones I don't know are bottom middle and bottom left....

I'm loving these btw

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Only ones I don't know are bottom middle and bottom left....

I'm loving these btw

Bottom left is Drake Redcrest requested by an avid Chibi Robo fan and the other is Marina from Mischief Makers.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

So, I had a crazy thought;

What if Waluigi was put in Smash Bros with Wario's moveset while Wario got a brand new one akin to the Wario Land series? Basically another iteration of the "Black Shadow/Blood Falcon should have Ganondorf's moveset".

Obviously there would be some tweaks (Waluigi would have a Mario kart instead of a motorcycle and maybe throw down bombs instead of farting) but maybe it'd be worth considering

 

[YoshiandToad]

So, I had a crazy thought;

What if Waluigi was put in Smash Bros with Wario's moveset while Wario got a brand new one akin to the Wario Land series? Basically another iteration of the "Black Shadow/Blood Falcon should have Ganondorf's moveset".

Obviously there would be some tweaks (Waluigi would have a Mario kart instead of a motorcycle and maybe throw down bombs instead of farting) but maybe it'd be worth considering

I can't really envision this at all?

Wario moves the way he does because of the limited WarioWare graphics in his game. Waluigi wouldn't make sense to have that choppy animation as he doesn't appear in that series...
Wario also has a huge wide mouth able to chomp, Waluigi...would look really weird chomping something. Wario's a big fat guy who eats too much...Waluigi's a beanpole so he probably wouldn't be seen biting things.

Farting is right out for any character aside from Wario so the Wario Waft as you say is a no go.

The bike is...sort of workable I guess if it's changed to a generic kart of Mario Kart Bike, as is the Corkscrew even if the old air swim makes more sense for him.

All of the punch attacks would most likely change to kick attacks(Waluigi suits a kick set since his legs are so long and isn't anywhere near as muscular as Wario) but at this point there's already enough changes required that Waluigi wouldn't really be taking Wario's moveset.

Sorry, I just don't see it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Doesn't make sense. Waluigi's style is not the same as Wario's. There's some slight similarities, in how crazy they both seem, but that's about it. I could see a few aesthetic similarities, I guess? They both can do janky movements and odd karate chops, but that's where the similarities end. Well, their taunts have the same craziness behind 'em too, yeah.

 

[Arcadenik]

Honestly if Waluigi gets in Smash, he should have a moveset based on Mario Tennis games.

B: Serve
Waluigi serves a tennis ball. The ball acts as a projectile. It's like Wii Fit Trainer's Side+B move.

Side+B: Whirluigi
Waluigi spins around and he can return projectiles to the opponents via his tennis racket. It's like R.O.B.'s Side+B move.

Up+B: Swimming Return
You know what it is.

Down+B: Counter Stomp
Waluigi counters physical attacks by stomping opponents into the ground like he already does as an Assist Trophy.

Final Smash: Bob-omb Launcher
Skip to 3:30 in this video.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly if Waluigi gets in Smash, he should have a moveset based on Mario Tennis games.

B: Serve
Waluigi serves a tennis ball. The ball acts as a projectile. It's like Wii Fit Trainer's Side+B move.

Side+B: Whirluigi
Waluigi spins around and he can return projectiles to the opponents via his tennis racket. It's like R.O.B.'s Side+B move.

Up+B: Swimming Return
You know what it is.

Down+B: Counter Stomp
Waluigi counters physical attacks by stomping opponents into the ground like he already does as an Assist Trophy.

Final Smash: Bob-omb Launcher
Skip to 3:30 in this video.

Waluigi deserves better than being stuck with a Reflector and Counter IMO. Way too standard for someone as off the wall as he is.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi deserves better than being stuck with a Reflector and Counter IMO. Way too standard for someone as off the wall as he is.

Too standard? He's a spin-off character based on two recolors.

 

[Opossum]

Too standard? He's a spin-off character based on two recolors.

Waluigi's entire personality revolves around him being a crafty, conniving cheater. Using things like standard filler specials doesn't do him justice.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi's entire personality revolves around him being a crafty, conniving cheater. Using things like standard filler specials doesn't do him justice.

There's nothing wrong with Reflector and Counter as long as characters can do them differently.

 

[Opossum]

There's nothing wrong with Reflector and Counter as long as characters can do them differently.

But why use them when Waluigi has so many better, more fitting options? Why should a character known for being crazy and off the wall be stuck with very standard specials?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Why not just give Waluigi an actual game so he doesn't have a lame ass sports moveset.

 

[Arcadenik]

But why use the, when Waluigi has so many better, more fitting options? Why should a character known for being crazy and off the wall be stuck with very standard specials?

If the best thing Sakurai can come up with for Waluigi is stomping people, maybe Waluigi is not that crazy and off the wall like Brawl in the Family portrayed him.

 

[Opossum]

If the best thing Sakurai can come up with for Waluigi is stomping people, maybe Waluigi is not that crazy and off the wall like Brawl in the Family portrayed him.

I mean, I guess if you ignore all the golf, tennis, and baseball games that paint him as a crafty cheater. Or DDR Mario Mix. Or his victory and losing quotes in things like Mario Party or Mario Kart.

And Sakurai is far from the be-all end-all when it comes to creativity lol. Petey Piranha's boss fight in the SSE just had him swinging around cages. Skull Kid didn't drop the moon as an Assist Trophy. Every DK stage has been a jungle, save for 75M. Not a good argument at all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Waluigi has more than enough potential and personality from those various spin-off games. It doesn't make sense to throw random unrelated moves on him.

He doesn't use counters or reflectors. It's unrelated. He does use karate chops, piranha plants, tennis rackets, golf clubs, crotch chop poses, is a cheater in personality, isn't remotely a recolor(uh, what?).

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi has more than enough potential and personality from those various spin-off games. It doesn't make sense to throw random unrelated moves on him.

He doesn't use counters or reflectors. It's unrelated. He does use karate chops, piranha plants, tennis rackets, golf clubs, crotch chop poses, is a cheater in personality, isn't remotely a recolor(uh, what?).

Of course Waluigi doesn’t use counters and reflectors.

What I meant is that Waluigi’s move Whirluigi could be used as a reflector and whatever it is that Waluigi does as an Assist Trophy could be used as a counter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Of course Waluigi doesn’t use counters and reflectors.

What I meant is that Waluigi’s move Whirluigi could be used as a reflector and whatever it is that Waluigi does as an Assist Trophy could be used as a counter.

Seems more like shoehorning the moves in then using them uniquely. We got enough reflectors and counters. Why not make it a good deflector, not unlike Mewtwo's Confusion? Like it spins them around to stun them if you touch 'em with it(similar to an ability Paper Mario has in his first game) and it knocks away a projectile entirely otherwise. This could make it a really strong defensive move, while not making it just being the same old move with a new coat of paint.

 

[Arcadenik]

Seems more like shoehorning the moves in then using them uniquely. We got enough reflectors and counters. Why not make it a good deflector, not unlike Mewtwo's Confusion? Like it spins them around to stun them if you touch 'em with it(similar to an ability Paper Mario has in his first game) and it knocks away a projectile entirely otherwise. This could make it a really strong defensive move, while not making it just being the same old move with a new coat of paint.

That sounds like Reflector with extra steps.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That sounds like Reflector with extra steps.

It's not. Deflection is a different actual ability. Reflecting hits the actual item back. Deflecting just is basically you shielding the move but also still throwing it back. It's more like a remake of Mewtwo's Confusion, which is neither a Reflector or like any other move in the game. It's a type of Throw at best. Besides that, a deflected item/move is not treated as you owning the item, unlike a Reflector. This is actually a major difference gameplay-wise.

So say you deflect a Pokeball. Not only will it not hit any nearby target if it could potentially do so, the Pokemon will still be owned by your opponent. Reflectors don't do that. You rarely see Deflectors because they're not a strong move compared to a Reflector.

 

[Arcadenik]

It's not. Deflection is a different actual ability. Reflecting hits the actual item back. Deflecting just is basically you shielding the move but also still throwing it back. It's more like a remake of Mewtwo's Confusion, which is neither a Reflector or like any other move in the game. It's a type of Throw at best. Besides that, a deflected item is not treated as you owning the item, unlike a Reflector. This is actually a major difference gameplay-wise.

So... it’s basically Reflector without attacking.

And I will quote myself.

There's nothing wrong with Reflector and Counter as long as characters can do them differently.

And how I described Whirluigi is similar to how you just described Whirluigi. Mine says Waluigi hits projectiles with the tennis racket. Yours says Waluigi spins around to deflect projectiles.

Side+B: Whirluigi
Waluigi spins around and he can return projectiles to the opponents via his tennis racket. It's like R.O.B.'s Side+B move.

And when returning projectiles, I think it makes more sense to hit a projectile with a tennis racket than it is to just spin around.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So... it’s basically Reflector without attacking.

And I will quote myself.



And how I described Whirluigi is similar to how you just described Whirluigi. Mine says Waluigi hits projectiles with the tennis racket. Yours says Waluigi spins around to deflect projectiles.



And when returning projectiles, I think it makes more sense to hit a projectile with a tennis racket than it is to just spin around.

To be fair, I kind of misread the move. Now I see what you mean. Yeah, I can't see it working like a deflector under that. So like Ness' Bat for reflecting, then.

 

[Arcadenik]

To be fair, I kind of misread the move. Now I see what you mean. Yeah, I can't see it working like a deflector under that. So like Ness' Bat for reflecting, then.

Yes! That’s it! That’s what I had in mind... like Ness’s Forward Smash move. But Whirluigi involves Waluigi spinning around and hitting the ball with the tennis racket... and that’s why I said “like R.O.B.’s Side+B move” since Whirluigi looks and functions similarly like that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes! That’s it! That’s what I had in mind... like Ness’s Forward Smash move. But Whirluigi involves Waluigi spinning around and hitting the ball with the tennis racket... and that’s why I said “like R.O.B.’s Side+B move” since Whirluigi looks and functions similarly like that.

Probably would be easier to explain as Ness' Bat or even Nayru's Love. Those two are much closer to the idea. Unless I forget about R.O.B.'s Side B being able to Reflect moves. XD

 

[Arcadenik]

LOL R.O.B.’s Side+B does reflect projectiles while he’s spinnng.

It still makes me laugh how Sakurai took R.O.B.’s only move (moving arms around) and made that a reflector.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Me: I'll just draw a couple third-party characters.

Me several hours later:

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

No full beard on Kratos?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So with the RTC scores it appears that people overall consider Decidueye Lycanroc and Mimikyu likely enough for smash. Thoughts?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It hasn't even been revealed to be a port or a proper sequel yet. Even disregarding that, people post idiotic chance scores in RTC, just like they did for SSB4.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

It hasn't even been revealed to be a port or a proper sequel yet. Even disregarding that, people post idiotic chance scores in RTC, just like they did for SSB4.

If people are giving “stupid” ratings, maybe engaging in actual debate in the thread instead of just posting 0 in Want for 80% of the characters would cause an impact.

Besides a gen 7 pokemon is one of the few things that even the port crew are confident on.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

People fundamentally misjudge probabilities. It's not worth my time to try to correct that. If someone thinks someone like Pauline has a 10% chance, they have no clue how to estimate probabilities.

 

[Sage of Ice]

It hasn't even been revealed to be a port or a proper sequel yet. Even disregarding that, people post idiotic chance scores in RTC, just like they did for SSB4.

oh is this still in doubt?

• they're generally pretty up-front about ports being ports (see donkey kong, mario kart, mario maker, hyrule warriors). at the very least they wouldn't go two months without clearing it up
• after a short break from smash wii u, sakurai got to work on his next project - unless i'm missing something, that would be this. a year and a half to two years of development is an awfully long time for a simple port
  
• the logo and theme music are new, as is the style of the inkling video compared to all of 4's newcomers
• speaking of the inklings, their presence means that even if it is a port there's new content. an alolan pokemon or a highly-promoted character from a new mario game isn't outside the realm of possibility.

i wouldn't be surprised if it's based on 4's framework and engine, but i'm expecting significant new content. doesn't strike me as idiotic to have a little fun speculating what some of that new content could be.

 

[Troykv]

People fundamentally misjudge probabilities. It's not worth my time to try to correct that. If someone thinks someone like Pauline has a 10% chance, they have no clue how to estimate probabilities.

What do you think are the Pauline's chances?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

What do you think are the Pauline's chances?

Less than 1%.

 

[Troykv]

Less than 1%.

Oh, that harsh, but makes sense; Pauline is associated with a very popular song, but herself is very unimportant overall.

 

[SonicMario]

I consider characters being rated at the lowest 10-20% dark horse status throughout the game's entire lifetime including DLC. Granted I don't rate too much in the RTC thread. But anything close to 10 is saying they're still quite unlikely but on the off chance a curve ball is thrown those characters are some of those. I very much see Pauline as such a Dark Horse in terms of a Mario (or Donkey Kong rep even. There's an argument either way. Though given Odyssey probably leans more to Mario at the moment) cause you can pull from the Arcade Donkey Kong games, Mario Vs. Donkey Kong (What if Pauline could place down attacking Mini Marios?), and now Odyssey.

We do have to keep in mind some Dark Horse candidates from time to time. When Smash 4 speculation started the candidates for a new Mario rep were widely considered just Toad, Waluigi, Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario. While Bowser Jr. did end up getting in the game after all. That was put kind of out of wack when suddenly we got Rosalina who probably would of been given pretty low scores prior to her reveal (I don't know if Rosalina had been rated at the time of Rosalina's reveal to see if that was true or not). While Pauline I don't think is quite getting the push Rosalina did prior to Smash 4. It still feels like somewhat of a similar situation where Pauline could at least be a surprise DLC character if Sakurai saw potential in her after Odyssey's release.

And that's not even getting into just how many curveballs we got in Smash 4 to begin with. Not that many here would of (Or in some cases did get the chance to) rated Ryu, Cloud, or Bayonetta very high. So in some sense after the wild ride Smash 4 brought us through, it feels more like all bets are off in comparison. So I don't think it's really necessarily a particular person's misjudge of probability but in just general there's that feeling where rating in chance you have that little devil's advocate in their mind where after seemingly impossible characters got in last time you start thinking "Well I suppose there is SOME things going for them after all...".

Though Pauline could perfectly be just a background stage element if New Donk City is a stage in the game where kinda similar to K.K. Slider on the Animal Crossing stages she'll sing Jump Up Superstar under specific conditions while you're fighting. I don't necessarily support Pauline myself, but I'm just not going to completely rule her out just yet.

 

[YoshiandToad]

We do have to keep in mind some Dark Horse candidates from time to time. When Smash 4 speculation started the candidates for a new Mario rep were widely considered just Toad, Waluigi, Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario. While Bowser Jr. did end up getting in the game after all. That was put kind of out of wack when suddenly we got Rosalina who probably would of been given pretty low scores prior to her reveal (I don't know if Rosalina had been rated at the time of Rosalina's reveal to see if that was true or not).

Can confirm she was rated and it was something like 12-17% in the end. People saw her as less likely than Daisy...until 3D World made her a playable character and then suddenly everyone's opinion of her skyrocketed.

The irony is 3D World was likely not even a factor in her inclusion.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Can confirm she was rated and it was something like 12-17% in the end. People saw her as less likely than Daisy...until 3D World made her a playable character and then suddenly everyone's opinion of her skyrocketed.

The irony is 3D World was likely not even a factor in her inclusion.

People tend to forget that Sakurai operates outside of human logic. We’d rate Rosalina lower than Daisy because while Daisy has historical significance, Rosalina was mostly a one-off character at the time. We look for patterns in what Sakurai has done before, but the reality is that Sakurai just acts at random.