Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[P.Kat]

Also,

Too simple my ass.

I can no longer trust this abomination, nothing but pure darkness lies in his heart...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

but FF 7 truly is that big a deal that getting a second character is warranted.

Oh definitely, I just think that a character from a different game is just as warranted. Final Fantasy VII might be a genre defining title, but the other big games in the series aren't really slouches in that aspect either.

 

[N3ON]

11 / 10 best song ever should've won a Grammy.

I can't blame it losing out to "Listening to Paint Dry" though.

 

[Speed Weed]

now as cool as the travis mii is, i'm a bit nervous for the implications

for the first pass the mii costumes were just cool surprises, characters that were extremely lucky to even make the top 30 in polls and didn't have much of a shot anyway. and the returning miis were the ones that stung the least.

now we already have 2 major disconfirmations in heihachi and travis and the full mii costumes left from smash 4 are all bigguns, which has me worried for the future. i could be worrying too much but part of me is a little scared that they've finally pulled out the big murder machine we were oh so afraid of during pass 1 and that we might be going back to smash 4 dlc levels of killing big requests left and right

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Oh definitely, I just think that a character from a different game is just as warranted. Final Fantasy VII might be a genre defining title, but the other big games in the series aren't really slouches in that aspect either.

As much as a Geno fan as I am, getting Terra would probably be even cooler to me.

Plus you can have Marx as a stand in for Kefka as the final boss in her Classic Mode.

 

[7NATOR]

I don't think anything in particular makes a big change to any particular characters chances.

The biggest takeaways today, at least in terms of future speculation, relates to the Mii costumes. Travis Touchdown, underdog pick, is out. Folks were correct in being suspicious of Suda's comment. This may be something to keep in mind in the future if a developer happens to say anything. We also got a major bombshell (heh) is Bomberman.

It appears to be that Assist Trophy appearance repurposed into a costume. Like others, I would love to see this happen with a Shovel Knight Swordfighter. After looking back at what Sakurai said about Bomberman, it was specific to Bomberman.

So, do I think we're getting Assist Trophy upgrades? I haven't really ever thought they would happen, but this is the first Assist Trophy upgrade we've seen...to a Mii costume. I'm not all that convinced that Waluigi would be turned into one, Isaac already is one, as is Rex.

What I find interesting is that we now have Lloyd Irving not showing up with fellow Namco character Gil, and still no Geno or Monster Hunter. I believe Monster Hunter will either be a playable fighter or return with a Capcom fighter, but I'm not sure what to think with Geno or Lloyd. We've been here before with, "Heihachi playable???", and he was swiftly taken to the chopping block.

That said, some costumes have been revealed thematically. Min Min had a few fighting game character costumes revealed, so could we get a JRPG character that isn't Lloyd and get the Lloyd costume? Tales of is one of the last JRPG series remaining, and Lloyd has been a relatively well known Smash pick for awhile now. Not to say I think he's in or something, but worth taking note of in the way that any other Mii Costume has been.

It doesn't mean any of them are in, though it suggests we're in for another big disconfirmation/confirmation within the next few reveals.

In terms of when we get the next fighter, look out for amiibo release dates, and for 7/11 banner dates. Both have been the best indicators of roughly when a reveal will happen.

I'm still not quite convinced of the "M" rated theory. Yes, the ESRB has limited the appearance of M rated titles...in one region. Everywhere else it's completely fine and has no change. So, do I think Nintendo would look at Dante and say, "Welp, can't add Dante because of the ESRB!"? No, I don't. It may affect additional content, but as far as the character themselves I don't think so. I would change my tune if further information came out suggesting it would but that would be another bombshell bit of information.

Oh the M theory isn't a bad thing for Rated M characters. It's actually a Pro in their favor, because them doing stuff like getting rid of Logos for FP2 in U.S could be a forshadow of Rated M Character in the pass

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Actually I'm confused, why is Notch not very Desirable? the only thing I know about the guy is that he Created Minecraft and then sold it to Microsoft

He's a massive bigot who has shown his ass on Twitter for the better part of the last decade. That's really all you need to know.

 

[Shroob]

So, like, if we get the next wave of Amiibo pinned down for a date in like, December, and they launch Jan-Feb, and then we get CP8 in Jan-Feb, at what point does Amiibo theory stop being a theory and become "Oh, we figured out their marketing strategy"?

 

[-crump-]

I read that Mojang/Microsoft doesn’t actually own the rights to the original Minecraft soundtrack, the composer does. Is that right?

If so, I think Sakurai’s excuse that the music wouldn’t fit is a convenient cover for the composer not playing ball, or Nintendo not wanting to jump through extra hoops to secure the original songs.

 

[Deleted member]

t appears to be that Assist Trophy appearance repurposed into a costume. Like others, I would love to see this happen with a Shovel Knight Swordfighter. After looking back at what Sakurai said about Bomberman, it was specific to Bomberman.

Actually, we had an AT get "upgraded" to Mii Costumes before:

 

[N3ON]

now as cool as the travis mii is, i'm a bit nervous for the implications

for the first pass the mii costumes were just cool surprises, characters that were extremely lucky to even make the top 30 in polls and didn't have much of a shot anyway. and the returning miis were the ones that stung the least.

now we already have 2 major disconfirmations in heihachi and travis and the full mii costumes left from smash 4 are all bigguns, which has me worried for the future. i could be worrying too much but part of me is a little scared that they've finally pulled out the big murder machine we were oh so afraid of during pass 1 and that we might be going back to smash 4 dlc levels of killing big requests left and right

Seems probable.

Which sucks in the moment, I get it. I'm bummed Travis didn't make it.

But in retrospect I think we'll just be happy they're in at all. Because at the point you're a costume, it was either that, a Spirit, or nothing.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Plus you can have Marx as a stand in for Kefka as the final boss in her Classic Mode.

You could even play Dancing Mad. Ooooh it's so good!

 

[PacificFun]

Time for a repost haha. Didn't mean to come across as a prick. Red X marks are pretty harsh and I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I apologize.

Now then, this post is a sequel of sorts to a post I made on Thursday. Let me explain my thought process.

I originally thought that a Bravely Defualt or TWEWY character were kind of likely for FP2. Bravely Defualt would be a good promotional pick for the upcoming Switch sequel and TWEWY is getting more attention from Sqaure. Both are Nintendo linked third-party series.

But then Travis got discomfirmed which threw a wrench into my logic. If Travis got outted, I feel like the likelyhood of a Bravely character or a TWEWY character just got a lot lower. Travis seemed to be such an easy and low cost promo pick, I dont know why they would pass it up (there is no way Sakurai turned down Travis). So, Nintendo might look at those smaller Square seires and just deem them to too "small to rep a whole FP for.

So no, I don't think they're acts melodramatic impossible. But, I feel like their likelyhood just got lowered.

I just cant really see Crono at this point unless Nintendo wants a SNES legacy pick.

2B feels shaky due to her character design. Half of 2B's appeal (let's be very honest here) is her sexual appeal. Unlike Bayonetta, you'd have to censor 2B's character design. IRCC, the creator of 2B is very "proud" of her character design. If they can't bring a fully accurate deception of 2B's character design over, I wonder if Sakurai and Nintendo will even see it as worth it. If Mai couldn't get a censored cameo (which wouldn't be difficult), 2B feels shaky. I can't see 2B with Peach & Daisy's "black hole" effect. It feels very untrue to the character.

So that leaves Geno and Lara. Geno is the last major request character and Lara Croft is big ****, yada yada. They both have issues too mind you.

Lara doesn't appeal to Japanese audiences and her firearms might make Nintendo turn her down. Might also be just too violent for Smash.

Geno is only known for being in a Mario spin-off on the end of SNES' life over two decades ago. Compared to the other popular fan characters (like Banjo, King K. Rool, Daisy, Ridley and so on), Geno is much more insignificant to his franchise.

I feel as if Geno has the least amount of hurdles over any potential Sqaure rep. But I see Lara (no bias, I promise haha) as the runner up.

Keep in mind, this is only my logic IF Sqaure gets another rep (which I find a bit likely).

Anyway, if yah read through all of that, awesome.

 

[SirBillyBob]

now as cool as the travis mii is, i'm a bit nervous for the implications

for the first pass the mii costumes were just cool surprises, characters that were extremely lucky to even make the top 30 in polls and didn't have much of a shot anyway. and the returning miis were the ones that stung the least.

now we already have 2 major disconfirmations in heihachi and travis and the full mii costumes left from smash 4 are all bigguns, which has me worried for the future. i could be worrying too much but part of me is a little scared that they've finally pulled out the big murder machine we were oh so afraid of during pass 1 and that we might be going back to smash 4 dlc levels of killing big requests left and right

As the great Mighty No.9 Director Keiji Inafune once said, "It's better than nothing."

For real though, I at least appreciate the chance to fight as these big requests in some form or another. Obviously being playable would be preferred, but if people do want this to be the biggest crossover ever, then characters being relegated to Spirits and costumes should be something people are ok with. You ain't gonna make everyone happy, so just go ahead and give them the consolation prize.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Something that might be in favor of another SE pick is that given we've now gotten a first party and Microsoft character again, Nintendo certainly isn't concerned about going to the same companies for the second fighter's pass as they did for the first.

 

[Deleted member]

After my annoying internet, I finally saw the whole presentation.

I loved it!!! They were so faithful to the game!!!

I am so excited for this character, man.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just cant really see Crono at this point unless Nintendo wants a SNES legacy pick.

I don't think Crono is likely either. He isn't really all that relevant, his competition is pretty steep, and if you want a big retro character, Ryu is right there.

EDIT: I do think he does have the merit though, and he'd definitely be amazing.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is a pity that SE is so stingy with Mii Costume stuff in general because you could do worse than having a Crono costume (among others from CT) for Smash.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Folks were correct in being suspicious of Suda's comment. This may be something to keep in mind in the future if a developer happens to say anything.

On this note, I've come to make another announcement.

Travis guy suddenly changes from "I want him in Smash!" to "no comment" a few weeks ago, everyone assumes this is because Travis is in Smash now, which ends up confirmed, albeit as a Mii costume. The timeline from his change of tone to the reveal makes sense since Mii costumes wouldn't take a lot to develop.

Ubisoft suddenly changed from "we want Rayman in Smash!" to radio silence well over a year ago. Full on fighters take years to come out from working out the contracts to development time, a fighter NDA would be more strict than a Mii, and Ubisoft has drop kicked anything that could be misconstrued as a hint

In other words, Rayman.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

YO HOLY **** ****IN BOMBERMAN?!?!

 

[SirBillyBob]

The raw energy emanating from this tweet though:

👍 https://t.co/8qEyb0SfB4

— SUDA51/須田剛一 (@suda_51) October 3, 2020

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It is a pity that SE is so stingy with Mii Costume stuff in general because you could do worse than having a Crono costume (among others from CT) for Smash.

Crono Set (Swordfighter)
Luca Set (Gunner)
Marle Set (Gunner)

Make it happen Nintendo!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't think Crono is likely either. He isn't really all that relevant, his competition is pretty steep, and if you want a big retro character, Ryu is right there.

EDIT: I do think he does have the merit though, and he'd definitely be amazing.

While Chrono Trigger isn't recent, it is relevant in the overall industry as a game that debuted multiple endings, unique combat, as well as being one of the greatest games of all time.

I think what holds him back more is the ability to stand out among other sword users. I hate to say this line, but a Mii Fighter could be a great fit.

 

[Deleted member]

Real weebs learn how to read subtitles even when there's 20 things happening on screen at once.

I AM A REAL WEEB, LET'S GOO!!!!!!

 

[Speed Weed]

While Chrono Trigger isn't recent, it is relevant in the overall industry as a game that debuted multiple endings, unique combat, as well as being one of the greatest games of all time.

yeah as much as quote-unquote relevancy is thrown around in here, i feel like crono would be one of the characters able to override that issue simply because it's chrono ****in' trigger

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You could even play Dancing Mad. Ooooh it's so good!

Me and the boys gonna be playing 20 stock matches so we can hear the full song

 

[N3ON]

Crono would be great but I think the consensus generally is that he would be lucky to get a Mii costume, thanks in no small part to Square being Square.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Travis guy suddenly changes from "I want him in Smash!" to "no comment" a few weeks ago, everyone assumes this is because Travis is in Smash now, which ends up confirmed, albeit as a Mii costume. The timeline from his change of tone to the reveal makes sense since Mii costumes wouldn't take a lot to develop.

This would actually confirm that Mii Costumes are not quick burned and sat on for over a year, which means that CacoMallow is 100% fake.

Ubisoft suddenly changed from "we want Rayman in Smash!" to radio silence well over a year ago. Full on fighters take years to come out from working out the contracts to development time, a fighter NDA would be more strict than a Mii, and Ubisoft has drop kicked anything that could be misconstrued as a hint

In other words, Rayman.

Very curious. When exactly did they get rid of the "I hope they add Rayman" quote?

I think what holds him back more is the ability to stand out among other sword users. I hate to say this line, but a Mii Fighter could be a great fit.

While a Mii Swordfighter costume would look nice, I disagree that he would be unable to stand out from the other swordfighters, especially if they pull from Chrono Trigger's version of the ATB system, as well as Dual Techs and Triple Techs.

 

[Shroob]

I'm not looking forward to December lol.


Steve will hold us over for some time, but you just know like, a week or two after he comes out, people are gonna get antsy, and come December with TGAs....

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is amazing just how many Mii Costumes Square could pack in with a character if they wished:

Lara Croft
Crono
FF Protagonist
Neku
Geno
Space Invaders Hat

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

[toonito]

I feel like Amiibo theory has a window of error now as Steve was revealed I think two weeks after Joker and Hero came out

7/11 Theory is 100% solid though, the character MUST be revealed before the takedown date and it hasn’t failed thus far

if you use the american release date for each DLC character and Amiibo wave:

= 1/29/19; amiibo = 2/15/19 (17 days before amiibo)
= 4/17/19; amiibo = 4/12/19 (5 days after amiibo)
= 7/30/19; amiibo = 7/26/19 (4 days after amiibo)
= 9/4/19; amiibo = 9/20/19 (16 days before amiibo)
= 11/6/19; amiibo = 11/15/19 (9 days before amiibo)
= 1/28/20; amiibo = 1/17/20 (11 days after amiibo)
= 6/29/20; amiibo restock = 6/12/20 (17 days after amiibo restock)
Steve = 10/13/20; amiibo = 10/2/20 (11 days after amiibo)

the character release can range from 17 days before an amiibo wave to 11 days after (or 17 if you count June's restock) so up to around 2 weeks in either direction

with the exception of amiibo waves and character releases seem to fall within the same month

couple this with the 7-11 ads (which tends to correlate with character reveals not releases) we may be on to something lol

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Time for a repost haha. Didn't mean to come across as a prick. Red X marks are pretty harsh and I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I apologize.

Now then, this post is a sequel of sorts to a post I made on Thursday. Let me explain my thought process.

I originally thought that a Bravely Defualt or TWEWY character were kind of likely for FP2. Bravely Defualt would be a good promotional pick for the upcoming Switch sequel and TWEWY is getting more attention from Sqaure. Both are Nintendo linked third-party series.

But then Travis got discomfirmed which threw a wrench into my logic. If Travis got outted, I feel like the likelyhood of a Bravely character or a TWEWY character just got a lot lower. Travis seemed to be such an easy and low cost promo pick, I dont know why they would pass it up (there is no way Sakurai turned down Travis). So, Nintendo might look at those smaller Square seires and just deem them to too "small to rep a whole FP for.

So no, I don't think they're acts melodramatic impossible. But, I feel like their likelyhood just got lowered.

I just cant really see Crono at this point unless Nintendo wants a SNES legacy pick.

2B feels shaky due to her character design. Half of 2B's appeal (let's be very honest here) is her sexual appeal. Unlike Bayonetta, you'd have to censor 2B's character design. IRCC, the creator of 2B is very "proud" of her character design. If they can't bring a fully accurate deception of 2B's character design over, I wonder if Sakurai and Nintendo will even see it as worth it. If Mai couldn't get a censored cameo (which wouldn't be difficult), 2B feels shaky. I can't see 2B with Peach & Daisy's "black hole" effect. It feels very untrue to the character.

So that leaves Geno and Lara. Geno is the last major request character and Lara Croft is big ****, yada yada. They both have issues too mind you.

Lara doesn't appeal to Japanese audiences and her firearms might make Nintendo turn her down. Might also be just too violent for Smash.

Geno is only known for being in a Mario spin-off on the end of SNES' life over two decades ago. Compared to the other popular fan characters (like Banjo, King K. Rool, Daisy, Ridley and so on), Geno is much more insignificant to his franchise.

I feel as if Geno has the least amount of hurdles over any potential Sqaure rep. But I see Lara (no bias, I promise haha) as the runner up.

Keep in mind, this is only my logic IF Sqaure gets another rep (which I find a bit likely).

Anyway, if yah read through all of that, awesome.

Tbf I think it’s less Travis’s cult status and more so his... well... play style. I always maintained his play style wouldn’t be for good boys and girls so the Mii was the best compromise and Suda seemed ok with it

TWEWY isn’t that inappropriate in comparison

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well I'm all caught up now, and I just gotta say, RIP Travis. Super bummed out by the Mii. They couldn't even let us have the one hint...

 

[7NATOR]

Oh Also I guess I should ask, With Bomberman Costume, how you guys feeling about Waluigi?

 

[PacificFun]

Tbf I think it’s less Travis’s cult status and more so his... well... play style. I always maintained his play style wouldn’t be for good boys and girls so the Mii was the best compromise and Suda seemed ok with it

TWEWY isn’t that inappropriate in comparison

But Bayonetta is playable though. She's extremely suggestive in a lot of her animations.

I don't think that's why Travis didn't get in.

 

[Lamperouge]

I'm not looking forward to December lol.


Steve will hold us over for some time, but you just know like, a week or two after he comes out, people are gonna get antsy, and come December with TGAs....


View attachment 288164

I'm completely fine with Smash not making an appearance at this year's VGA as long we get higher quality announcements than ****ing Fast and Furious.

 

[Deleted member]

My condolences to Travis fans...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Tbf I think it’s less Travis’s cult status and more so his... well... play style. I always maintained his play style wouldn’t be for good boys and girls so the Mii was the best compromise and Suda seemed ok with it

TWEWY isn’t that inappropriate in comparison

If they needed to they could have kept his charge animation static (similar to one of Ike's taunts), or have his arms off to the side so the crude joke is no longer there or as apparent. The latter would be more readable as a bonus.

 

[PacificFun]

Oh Also I guess I should ask, With Bomberman Costume, how you guys feeling about Waluigi?

I'd assume Waluigi's height would make creating a super faithful Mii costume...a difficult task.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

But Bayonetta is playable though. She's extremely suggestive in a lot of her animations.

I don't think that's why Travis didn't get in.

Tbf Bayonetta doesn’t outright look like she’s having a date with Rosie Palms in her animation unlike Travis so