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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cosmic77

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Changing for other topic, do you think we will see a character from another M-rated IP like Bayonetta or Persona ?
Maybe, but I don't expect it to factor into Nintendo's decision at all. If Nintendo wants a character, they'll ask for them regardless of their game's rating.

That being said, I don't think there's many, if any characters from M-rated games who I want in Smash. I don't really like gorey or overly suggestive games, and I think that's a large part of the reason why I dislike Bayonetta so much.
 
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pinshadow

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Not ranking Brawl because I wasn't there and regardless aside from Zero Suit pretty much every newcomer is a B atleast. S is most wanteds, A is great, B is cool, C is Really?/Don't Care For, and D is Uhhgggg.

Smash 4
S::ultmegaman::ultlittlemac:
A::ultpacman::ultwiifittrainer:
B::ultrosalina::ultbowserjr::ultshulk::ultvillager::ultduckhunt::ultrobin::ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter::ultryu:
C::ultpalutena::ultlucina::ultgreninja::ultdarkpit:
D::ultcorrin:

Huh gee, I wonder why I don't like Smash 4 that much when I was only really excited for like four of the characters and one of them happened to end up as an absolutely horrendously designed garbage tier with the rest of the cast leaving me lukewarm and underwhelmed. I kid of course, Smash 4 has plenty of actual problems for me that aren't based on my roster preferences.

S::ultbanjokazooie::ultkrool::ulthero3::ultsimon:
A::ultdarksamus::ultridley::ultrichter::ult_terry:
B::ultinkling::ultdaisy::ultken::ultisabelle:
C::ultjoker::ultchrom:
D::ultbyleth::ultpiranha::ultincineroar:

GOD Ultimate is great isn't it? I got FOUR of my most wanted along with a bunch of other characters I like, they brought back all the characters, a bunch of veterans got the touch ups they desperately needed, the soundtrack is great unlike whatever the hell Smash 4 was, the stages all got great touch ups and theres so many plus hazard switch and battlefield forms? Plus a bunch of just general mechanical improvements, I mean what's not to love?

Oh right. Those 3 at the bottom there. I feel so conflicted about hating them so much, because on one hand I got so much I wanted in this game and it feels wrong to complain about it. On the other hand, I hate them WAY more than any other additions in the franchises history, it's not even a "they could have been someone else I wanted" because I got a bunch of stuff I wanted, they could have been pretty much anything else, even if I didn't care about it at all, and I'd be cool with it. Hell, they could just be removed from the game and replaced with NOTHING ELSE and I'd still be happier than having them in.
 

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I always think that Could reveal was the most impacting for me because at that time, Sakurai stated that a requirement of a third party character to be in Smash is to have been appeared in a Nintendo console before (preferably in his main game and not an spin-off). The other third party that got in fit with that criteria and really nobody expected Cloud to appear as his main game didn't get ported at that time for a Nintendo console, hey, FFVII is PS1's flagship game and a gamechanger in that generation of consoles. I think if at that time we debated about a Final Fantasy rep for Smash, most of you would say Terra (FFVI MC) or Cecil (FFIV), even some of you would say Black Mage from FFI before Cloud.

Changing for other topic, do you think we will see a character from another M-rated IP like Bayonetta or Persona ?
Depends, if we get someone from an FPS, maybe the often discussed Master Chief or Doom Slayer could count. Though Halo's about as violent as MGS. Travis Touchdown's been a fairly popular choice since around the later Brawl days from what I remember. And Mortal Kombat would always be welcome in my book. I think KI was always T rated, but I forgot the rating for KI1 and KI2 off the top of my head.

I think SMT is also M rated, so there's that too.
 

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As someone who likes Byleth and Incineroar this thread is becoming very sad to read.
 

Hinata

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Changing for other topic, do you think we will see a character from another M-rated IP like Bayonetta or Persona ?
Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies was rated M.

Phoenix Wright confirmed, baby.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Byleth was a straight-up exciting addition for me.

I’ve just come to accept most people don’t feel that way lol
I'm of the opinion that Byleth's sins aren't his own, and that if there were less Fire Emblem characters, they'd be seen as a pretty hype addition.
 

pinshadow

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As someone who likes Byleth and Incineroar this thread is becoming very sad to read.
That's fair. You're allowed to like whatever you want, It's just an annoying personal thing with those two characters for me because for base-game I straight up remember thinking "I'm ok with pretty much anything now that Simon and K.Rool are in, as long as it's not another Pokemon. And then they did that. And then later on the exact same thing happened where I said "I'm ok with pretty much anything now that Hero and Banjo are in, as long as they don't pull another Corrin with Three Houses". And then they did that. It's just super frustrating that out of hundreds of possible choices it has to be the one thing I very specifically did not want, twice.
 

SKX31

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I'm gonna rate the reveals based on how I felt about them at the time, at least to the best of my memory. I've mellowed out a lot since and would place a lot of characters much higher, but that's not nearly as fun as stupid hot takes from over a decade ago.

Brawl:

S: :metaknight::wario::dedede:

A: :pt::ike::snake::zerosuitsamus:

B: :diddy::lucas::olimar::lucario:

C: :pit::toonlink:

D: :sonic::wolf::rob:

I'm not even gonna bother defending this list, because it's pretty awful, but this is what I thought back then as far as I can remember. I wasn't very old, so shallow arguments like "I'm tired of hearing about him" and "This isn't Ridley" are what I used to justify my negative opinions. If I had to re-do this even just one or two years after Brawl's release, it would look very different and probably only be comprised of three tiers, I think every inclusion brought something good with them.
That's fully understandable - you were 10 - 12 around Brawl's development and reveals yes? I was smack dab in that age range when Melee came out (and I got into Smash). I had the same kind of reasoning and opinions around characters then.

Now, disclaimer time: Melee's base roster was revealed at E3 2001 and the unlockable characters were unlocked through play-time with not much prior knowledge or via word-of-mouth. Back then I didn't know E3 nor Melee existed, and I was an ocean away playing StarCraft I. This was also right before the Internet got reliable (and cheap, I recall my parents' "30 mins Internet time max per day" rule) enough for frequent use, so not many looks there if at all. I remember getting Melee together with my elder brother June 2002, and I'm going to rank my first impressions of the newcomers post-release:

S: :mewtwomelee:: Mewtwo was the Smash character for many kids then. Me included, The 24-hour unlock requirement just added to his mystique. And yes, I remember the OG Pokemon craze. Get off mah lawn!

A: :zeldamelee:/:sheikmelee:: "A unique transformation-based character? Neat! Controls weird though, but she's still great."
:falcomelee:: I quickly learned to love his jump arc and down-airs.
:ganondorfmelee:: Quickly became a casual favorite because of how hard he hit.

B: :icsmelee:: "Another unique character! Shame that their stage is so bad..."
:bowsermelee:: Was expected, but 11 year old me was still impressed by his moment in the opening (okay, the entire opening. This was with my love for the Matrix still relatively fresh. But still.). Was used decently often, and his Giga Bowser transformation was an actual shocker (no pun intended).
:peachmelee:: Another expected character, but the RNG Turnips and her general moveset made her fun to play casually. Not many strong opinions otherwise.
:marthmelee:: "Who is this dud- Oh whatever, he controls great!"
:roymelee:: "Huh, another one? At least he seems more energetic, still like him!" Didn't know he was promotional until years later obviously.

C: :pichumelee:: My 11 year old self made the connection to then-current Pokemon 2000 and knew this was a promotional pick.
:younglinkmelee: : Felt kinda strange to have two Links - and I didn't know about Majora's Mask. Thought it kinda neat to represent OoT fully though.
:gawmelee:: "A 2D fighter? Okay, wait, his stage. Oh, I get it!"

D: :drmario:: "Huh, Mario in a Doctor coat? Why?" Still became a casual favorite down the line.

Depends, if we get someone from an FPS, maybe the often discussed Master Chief or Doom Slayer could count. Though Halo's about as violent as MGS. Travis Touchdown's been a fairly popular choice since around the later Brawl days from what I remember. And Mortal Kombat would always be welcome in my book. I think KI was always T rated, but I forgot the rating for KI1 and KI2 off the top of my head.

I think SMT is also M rated, so there's that too.
*Coughs in Gordon Freeman*

Nah but seriously, agreeing with this. I'm also going to add Kratos and a StarCraft character as "Small chance, but kinda present." possibilities. Obviously no frontrunners, but not out of it really.

Also, looked it up, the SNES KI was apparently rated Teen, Killer Instinct 2 (or Gold) also Teen.
 
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Knight Dude

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I think some Tomb Raider games are also Rated M. So Lara might count, but I'm pretty sure the series bounced back between T and M. Obviously Nintendo themselves don't have a ton of M rated titles. I still doubt Sony's gonna play nice, so I don't know about Kratos. And then there's Assassin's Creed.

A lot of people also mention 2B, isn't her game also M rated? Any other notable choices I'm missing? EDIT: Gordon Freeman is one.
 
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Megadoomer

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As someone who likes Byleth and Incineroar this thread is becoming very sad to read.
To be fair, I haven't played Pokemon since gen. 3. I would have been fine with a Fire Emblem Three Houses character (it wasn't like Smash 4, where they doubled the size of the FE roster before DLC and added a character whose game wasn't released outside of Japan yet), but I thought that Byleth was the blandest possible option out of the four main ones. (I would have preferred Edelgard, or maybe Claude)

I think some Tomb Raider games are also Rated M. So Lara might count, but I'm pretty sure the series bounced back between T and M. Obviously Nintendo themselves don't have a ton of M rated titles. I still doubt Sony's gonna play nice, so I don't know about Kratos. And then there's Assassin's Creed.

A lot of people also mention 2B, isn't her game also M rated? Any other notable choices I'm missing?
You've forgotten Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man - I am disappoint.


 
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snowgolem

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As someone who likes Byleth and Incineroar this thread is becoming very sad to read.
As someone who thinks they’re both really cool this thread is becoming very annoying to read as people are ‘rating the reveals’ yet they’re putting Ken and Incineroar in separate tiers.

“Alright guyss!! I’m gonna make my tier list for the smash reveqls!!
SSS Tier: :ulthero::ultrobinf::ultcorrinf: and female byleth
FFF Tier: :ulthero2::ulthero3::ulthero4::ultrobin::ultcorrin::ultbyleth:
 

Hinata

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Byleth was a straight-up exciting addition for me.

I’ve just come to accept most people don’t feel that way lol
My girlfriend and I popped the **** off when Byleth was revealed. We both had them on our most wanted list, but since FP1 was entirely third-party up until that point, we both assumed that trend would continue.
 

?????????????

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I don’t understand actively NOT wanting things.

Like...I might get it if it was something against the nature of Smash Bros., like an anime character.

But when the threshold is “game that includes Nintendo characters,” and they do exactly that, like...it’s gonna please someone. Someone wanted that.
 

Schnee117

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Depends, if we get someone from an FPS, maybe the often discussed Master Chief or Doom Slayer could count. Though Halo's about as violent as MGS.
Yeah recent Halos have been T rated because it's not actually that violent despite some of the assassinations. They were always really soft M ratings before hand
 

?????????????

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My girlfriend and I popped the **** off when Byleth was revealed. We both had them on our most wanted list, but since FP1 was entirely third-party up until that point, we both assumed that trend would continue.
I thought Byleth would be pretty much a lock for FP2, but I guess they really wanted to make sure they got it in! I was super happy about that.
 

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As someone who likes Byleth and Incineroar this thread is becoming very sad to read.
If it helps, I like Incineroar quite a bit. Just compared to guys like Mega Man, Ridley, Simon and Terry Bogard he's gonna be a bit lower on the list in comparison.

I don't hate Byleth, but since I'm not an FE fan, its the textbook definition of "mid" to me. At least the design isn't as goofy as Corrin.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Honestly poor Byleth had basically everything working against him/her unless you were specifically a fan of them. The last character of a fairly hype fighters pass that had been all third parties, heavily spotlighted outside the traditional quick general Direct, with a trailer that (one amusing joke aside) wasn't all that well paced, from a franchise that's gotten knocks for having too many fighters already, and being a character that wasn't even the preferred favorite of many who loved Three Houses. I'm okay with Byleth, but it was an execution that did the character no favors.
 
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Schnee117

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Byleth lost me when it turned out that they didn't really use the SotC properly, it was an excellent chance for a whipsword based moveset given that most of the other prolific whipsword users aren't really viable.

They were never my preferred Three Houses choice, far from it, but a cool moveset revolving around the SotC would have kept my interest.
 

Dark Bagel

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As someone who likes Byleth and Incineroar this thread is becoming very sad to read.
Apologies, but I have a raging vendetta against both college instructors and professional wrestlers ever since Professor Neiman subjected me to an Argentine backbreaker and Norwegian-suplexed me through a 25-story building my freshman year for failing my english exam.

I still have the flashbacks...
 
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?????????????

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I wouldn’t have been as into any other 3H choice tbh

It would’ve felt like favoritism towards one route, where Byleth is the consistent lead in all of them.

(I also imagine Edelgard would’ve been the runner up and she is hands down my least favorite lol)
 

Cosmic77

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Everyone has their preferences, and I don't consider anyone selfish if there's a character who they're hoping isn't one of the limited DLC spots.

Whether we're talking about 3H or SwSh, no one should feel obligated to pretend to like a character just because there's someone else who was ecstatic for said character.
 
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kirbsmash

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Whether we're talking about 3H or SwSh, no one should feel obligated to pretend to like a character just because there's someone else who was ecstatic for said character.
Oh no, i'm not trying to come off as that way at all. Sorry if I did.
 

?????????????

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Everyone has their preferences, and I don't consider anyone selfish if there's a character who they're hoping isn't one of the limited DLC spots.

Whether we're talking about 3H or SwSh, no one should feel obligated to pretend to like a character just because there's someone else who was ecstatic for said character.
No one should pretend to be happy.

But

There’s still a nice way to go about it socially.

You can express disinterest without telling people who LIKE the character that they’re wrong and their opinion is bad.

Not that that’s happened here today! But it’s definitely a thing that has happened lol
 
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Will

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Rated M Titles? You gotta ****ing throw in the wacky woohoo weeaboo man, he's dedicated to the Nintendo life. except those two times

 

Schnee117

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I suppose another factor as a whole is that Byleth's the third avatar character in a row for unique Fire Emblem newcomers but that's not their fault.
 

GillyGrime

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They definitely can. I just don't think it would look right in motion. Certain attacks may have too big of a loss in visual clarity as well. For example, Onslaught starting with a knee strike would become much harder to read when the character no longer has knees.
Damn I never thought about that move, that's the only move that doesn't involve head, fists or feet I'm guessing? Might not be a big deal if that's the case but it's hard to tell without seeing it in action.
 

SNEKeater

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I know it won't happen but if Dante ends being part of Smash someday it would be hilarious if they use this dance as one of his victory screens. Or even better, they should reveal him with this and then, just at the end when he says YEAH, "Dante joins the fight!".

Even the people who doesn't want him should be ecstatic after seeing something like that.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I know it won't happen but if Dante ends being part of Smash someday it would be hilarious if they use this dance as one of his victory screens. Or even better, they should reveal him with this and then, just at the end when he says YEAH, "Dante joins the fight!".

Even the people who doesn't want him should be ecstatic after seeing something like that.
I think it would be fitting if Dante was the first (and probably only) character with a taunt that would not end until you released the button.
 

Cosmic77

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Byleth had arguably the worst timing of any Smash character to date. I thought Incineroar and PP had it bad after the Grinch leak, but Byleth was preceded by four third-parties, two of which were extremely popular in different parts of the globe. Deep down, I'd like to believe F5 was orginally someone else, because I have absolutely no idea what was going through their heads if they genuinely thought ending the first pass with Byleth was a good idea (Imagine how much worse it would've been if the first pass was the end). So much criticism could've been avoided if they just revealed Byleth as any fighter 1-4 and pushed the others back, or better yet, moved him to the second pass after the ARMS character so people would be more prepared.

Then there's also the fact that FE was one of the first-party franchises that people wanted a newcomer from the least. Sakurai knew that. He had to have known if he felt like it was necessary to ask people that there be no hard feelings. Nintendo asked him to add a character who he knew would be controversial.
 

Michael the Spikester

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So much criticism could've been avoided if they just revealed Byleth as any fighter 1-4 and pushed the others back, or better yet, moved him to the second pass after the ARMS character so people would be more prepared.
Or if they had Byleth in Fighter Pass 2 especially starting it.
 
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Will

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Oh yeah, and him.

1590363380947.png


Tell me about how Wikipedia says Japan has it banned all you like, it still isn't, it doesn't change the fact he's an M-Rated juggernaut and overall giant influence to the gaming industry, for both positive and negative reasons alike.
 

ARandomFruit

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Byleth was in 5th place of my "which Fire Emblem character do I want" list but was the most likely anyways, but even still I was pretty happy and I like characters that make people complain because its funny to me.
Incineroar I was probably more excited about because my friend wanted Incineroar and the only other pokemon I really wanted from Sun and Moon was Marshadow and they were already a pokeball anyways. They'd both probably be average tier if I'd rank my reaction to the reveals.
 

Cosmic77

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Or if they had Byleth in Fighter Pass 2 especially starting it.
I think that would've turned a lot of people off, especially if the first pass ended up being all third-parties.

ARMS isn't the perfect choice to start off a pass, but at least it's an unrepped franchise featuring characters that are bound to feel unique. Once people had more time to digest first-parties being eligible, it wouldn't be long before they started mentally preparing themselves for a 3H character. They'd still be disappointed, but the response would likely be a lot more mellow. That's sort of what I'm expecting if Pokemon gets a character.
 

Glaciacott

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Byleth had arguably the worst timing of any Smash character to date. I thought Incineroar and PP had it bad after the Grinch leak, but Byleth was preceded by four third-parties, two of which were extremely popular in different parts of the globe. Deep down, I'd like to believe F5 was orginally someone else, because I have absolutely no idea what was going through their heads if they genuinely thought ending the first pass with Byleth was a good idea (Imagine how much worse it would've been if the first pass was the end). So much criticism could've been avoided if they just revealed Byleth as any fighter 1-4 and pushed the others back, or better yet, moved him to the second pass after the ARMS character so people would be more prepared.

Then there's also the fact that FE was one of the first-party franchises that people wanted a newcomer from the least. Sakurai knew that. He had to have known if he felt like it was necessary to ask people that there be no hard feelings. Nintendo asked him to add a character who he knew would be controversial.
I see your Byleth and I raise you a Corrin.
Corrin was revealed in a presentation that was supposed to be the last of the Smash 4 DLC cycle. It followed the hyper epic reveal of CLOUD of all characters, and came at a time when everyone was expecting the results of the character poll.
So where everyone was hoping the last Nintendo character to be Ridley or K. Rool or Dee or Dixie or all sorts of things people VOTED for, suddenly we see a trailer for a Fire Emblem character that no one outside of Japan realy knew.

I think that last bit is what made it such a problem of timing. With Byleth, the character was shown after Three Houses not only came out but garnered several awards for being such a good game. When Corrin got revealed, the game was only out in Japan I believe.

Bayonetta getting revealed probably eased the sting for a lot of people, but for those who wanted a specific first party Nintendo character based on polls (see K. Rool, etc.), seeing Corrin as the last first party was a slap to end all slaps.
 
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