Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Will]

D:

Let the Grinch leak go dude, it's been two years.

 

[Speed Weed]

honestly byleth did have very bad timing but i don't think any other time would be better

i personally just look at it this way: for pass 2, we got the inevitable three houses rep over with. we don't have to sit through more arguments about whether it'll be byleth, edelgard or dimitri with a single person in the middle memeing about claude. we don't have to speculate under the looming inevitability of byleth. we got three houses over with, we got fire emblem over with, there's 5 spots left and they could be anything else

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh yeah, and him.

Tell me about how Wikipedia says Japan has it banned all you like, it still isn't, it doesn't change the fact he's an M-Rated juggernaut and overall giant influence to the gaming industry, for both positive and negative reasons alike.

Lack of popularity in Japan is a obstacle in Scorpion's chances as much as I'd love him.

Any relations between Nintendo and Warner Bros. also? That's another factor that's needed.

I think that would've turned a lot of people off, especially if the first pass ended up being all third-parties.

ARMS isn't the perfect choice to start off a pass, but at least it's an unrepped franchise featuring characters that are bound to feel unique. Once people had more time to digest first-parties being eligible, it wouldn't be long before they started mentally preparing themselves for a 3H character. They'd still be disappointed, but the response would likely be a lot more mellow. That's sort of what I'm expecting if Pokemon gets a character.

True, maybe the third in the second pass would had been better then.

 

[Will]

Timing schmiming, the reaction would've still been the same regardless of order, Byleth will always be on the bottom of people's hype lists with Corrin for now and forever solely based on the series he's from.

 

[Schnee117]

honestly byleth did have very bad timing but i don't think any other time would be better

i personally just look at it this way: for pass 2, we got the inevitable three houses rep over with. we don't have to sit through more arguments about whether it'll be byleth, edelgard or dimitri with a single person in the middle memeing about claude. we don't have to speculate under the looming inevitability of byleth. we got three houses over with, we got fire emblem over with, there's 5 spots left and they could be anything else

Don't worry, we'll just have people fearmonger the dread 9th FE character

 

[Cosmic77]

I see your Byleth and I raise you a Corrin.
Corrin was revealed in a presentation that was supposed to be the last of the Smash 4 DLC cycle. It followed the hyper epic reveal of CLOUD of all characters, and came at a time when everyone was expecting the results of the character poll.
So where everyone was hoping the last Nintendo character to be Ridley or K. Rool or Dee or Dixie or all sorts of things people VOTED for, suddenly we see a trailer for a Fire Emblem character that no one outside of Japan realy knew.

I think that last bit is what made it such a problem of timing. With Byleth, the character was shown after Three Houses not only came out but garnered several awards for being such a good game. When Corrin got revealed, the game was only out in Japan I believe.

Bayonetta getting revealed probably eased the sting for a lot of people, but for those who wanted a specific first party Nintendo character based on polls (see K. Rool, etc.), seeing Corrin as the last first party was a slap to end all slaps.

Corrin got it pretty bad too, but so did Bayo. Sakurai never tried passing off Corrin as a ballot pick, so that eased some of the frustration people had (not much, but a little). I also remember a lot of people questioning if Bayo really won the ballot, so that helped some of the hate to be diverted from Corrin to her.

 

[Ben Holt]

Oh yeah, and him.

View attachment 272647

Tell me about how Wikipedia says Japan has it banned all you like, it still isn't, it doesn't change the fact he's an M-Rated juggernaut and overall giant influence to the gaming industry, for both positive and negative reasons alike.

There was a crossover fighter between DCU and Mortal Kombat in like 2011-ish.
It took out all the gore, so so could Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Another M rated character I feel has a really great shot for this pass is Ryu Hayabusa.

Among the last NES icons and the fact Tecmo are involved with Smash given the credits along with the good relationship they have with Nintendo.

 

[Cosmic77]

Timing schmiming, the reaction would've still been the same regardless of order, Byleth will always be on the bottom of people's hype lists with Corrin for now and forever solely based on the series he's from.

I disagree. Back then, a lot of people thought the DLC was exclusive to third-parties, so Byleth came off as a huge surprise.

Even if they had done something as simple as switch places with Byleth and the ARMS character, I feel like a lot more people would've been mentally prepared for Byleth. It'd still be pretty bad, but nowhere near as bad as what actually happened.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

There was a crossover fighter between DCU and Mortal Kombat in like 2011-ish.
It took out all the gore, so so could Smash.

Don't forget Injustice perfectly shows violence is not an issue.

Although that so called rule should be considered broken given

And oh god what did I just do. I probably started the violent debate again!

 

[Ben Holt]

Violence is awesome! I made a Hitler Mii just to beat it up with Isabelle and humiliate the son of a *****.
Now if only Mii Fighters were playable in Mortal Kombat, I could poke Hitler's eyes out with his broken ribs.
Oh well, at least Wolfenstein exists to scratch that itch.

 

[Will]

I disagree. Back then, a lot of people thought the DLC was exclusive to third-parties, so Byleth came off as a huge surprise.

I remember specifically saying that just because it's been like that all of the Pass doesn't automatically confirm all of them will be.

Even if they had done something as simple as switch places with Byleth and the ARMS character, I feel like a lot more people would've been mentally prepared for Byleth. It'd still be pretty bad, but nowhere near as bad as what actually happened.

You think people would be hyped for Byleth now than back in November?

 

[Inoj]

I think it would be fitting if Dante was the first (and probably only) character with a taunt that would not end until you released the button.

Shantae is another character that could use a Taunt that doesn't stop untill you lift the button.

 

[N3ON]

I don’t understand actively NOT wanting things.

Like...I might get it if it was something against the nature of Smash Bros., like an anime character.

But when the threshold is “game that includes Nintendo characters,” and they do exactly that, like...it’s gonna please someone. Someone wanted that.

Right, but that's the difference between you not wanting something versus you telling other people not to want or like something, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the former.

Who is anybody to dictate what other people want or don't want? As long as you can divorce your opinion from your expectations, I don't see the issue. Telling people they should want something simply because random internet people might want it is very strange, and kinda authoritarian. That's like telling people not to dislike a song because other people like it.

I don't want Steve because I have no affinity for Minecraft and I think the character is ugly as all hell, but other people want him, and that's cool. I get it, and to each their own. I spent a decent amount of time defending the character in the Banjo thread, but I still don't want him.

 

[M@R!3]

There was a crossover fighter between DCU and Mortal Kombat in like 2011-ish.
It took out all the gore, so so could Smash.

I'm probably wrong on this, but I could've sworn that game had fatalities, gore and all, for the MK characters and DC villains.

Not that this hurts MKs chances for smash.

 

[?????????????]

Right, but that's the difference between you not wanting something versus you telling other people not to want or like something, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the former.

Who is anybody to dictate what other people want or don't want? As long as you can divorce your opinion from your expectations, I don't see the issue. Telling people they should want something simply because random internet people might want it is very strange, and kinda authoritarian. That's like telling people not to dislike a song because other people like it.

I don't want Steve because I have no affinity for Minecraft and I think the character is ugly as all hell, but other people want him, and that's cool. I get it, and to each their own. I spent a decent amount of time defending the character in the Banjo thread, but I still don't want him.

No one should pretend to be happy.

But

There’s still a nice way to go about it socially.

You can express disinterest without telling people who LIKE the character that they’re wrong and their opinion is bad.

Not that that’s happened here today! But it’s definitely a thing that has happened lol

 

[Schnee117]

I'm probably wrong on this, but I could've sworn that game had fatalities, gore and all, for the MK characters and DC villains.

Not that this hurts MKs chances for smash.

They had fatalities but they were extremely toned down. At worst you'd see their skeletons.
Joker's fatality is infamous for having the shot be just off screen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Joker's fatality is infamous for having the shot be just off screen.

There was an uncensored version (UK version I think?) where it could be seen.

 

[Goombaic]

There was an uncensored version (UK version I think?) where it could be seen.

That's MK9, not MKvDC.

 

[M@R!3]

They had fatalities but they were extremely toned down. At worst you'd see their skeletons.
Joker's fatality is infamous for having the shot be just off screen.

Yeah, I just watched a few of them. They're really tame.

 

[?????????????]

I believe there is a distinction between “not caring for a character choice” vs “actively being opposed to a character.”

Like

“I’m not a big Minecraft fan, so I don’t really care about seeing Steve in Smash.”

Vs

“Steve in Smash would be a terrible addition, we still need Banjo and Chief first!”

 

[N3ON]

The way to have mitigated Byleth's reception was just to reveal another character alongside. Doesn't mean everything would've been sunshine and flowers for Byleth, but it certainly would've mitigated the backlash. Now timing-wise, perhaps that wasn't feasible, and that's fair, but in theory, that would've been the tact to take, if possible, should the goal have been to avoid as much negativity as possible.

I know people will compare that to the double reveal Corrin was part of, but given Byleth isn't the end of the DLC, nor were expectations guided by a ballot, so people wouldn't have dwelled on Byleth nearly as much were they presented not only with someone else, but also the promise of five or six more characters down the line.

Look at Chrom. It's true he's just an echo, but they padded him in basically the best way possible, and there was very little grumbling about his addition after the fact for being another blue-haired, sword-wielding, Fire Emblem clone.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That's MK9, not MKvDC.

Actually

And yep its the UK version.

 

[Will]

That's MK9, not MKvDC.

Joker wasn't in MK9 though.

 

[?????????????]

I believe there is a distinction between “not caring for a character choice” vs “actively being opposed to a character.”

Like

“I’m not a big Minecraft fan, so I don’t really care about seeing Steve in Smash.”

Vs

“Steve in Smash would be a terrible addition, we still need Banjo and Chief first!”

And like, there’s still totally fine ways to express that second opinion. “I prefer Banjo over Steve for (x reason).”

The point isn’t that you should be “happy for other people.”

It’s that you can express your opinion without treating other’s opinions like they’re stupid.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Joker wasn't in MK9 though.

He's referring to Shang Tsung's clown fatality.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The way to have mitigated Byleth's reception was just to reveal another character alongside. Doesn't mean everything would've been sunshine and flowers for Byleth, but it certainly would've mitigated the backlash. Now timing-wise, perhaps that wasn't feasible, and that's fair, but in theory, that would've been the tact to take, if possible, should the goal have been to avoid as much negativity as possible.

I know people will compare that to the double reveal Corrin was part of, but given Byleth isn't the end of the DLC, nor were expectations guided by a ballot, so people wouldn't have dwelled on Byleth nearly as much were they presented not only with someone else, but also the promise of five or six more characters down the line.

Look at Chrom. It's true he's just an echo, but they padded him in basically the best way possible, and there was very little grumbling about his addition after the fact for being another blue-haired, sword-wielding, Fire Emblem clone.

There's also the fact that Byleth didn't come in a General Nintendo Direct that might have had him/her sandwiched in between other announcements that could have had even dissatisfied fans happy with what was shown before or after. It was a presentation that would reveal both the character and detail them, so if you weren't excited for that fighter well, all you really had to look forward to was potential fun Mii costumes and the aforementioned hope that the FP6 would be announced.

And Cuphead can only do so much.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I believe there is a distinction between “not caring for a character choice” vs “actively being opposed to a character.”

Like

“I’m not a big Minecraft fan, so I don’t really care about seeing Steve in Smash.”

Vs

“Steve in Smash would be a terrible addition, we still need Banjo and Chief first!”

Exactly. People are free to dislike and not want a character, but I’ll never understand the people who are rude about it and are actively against the character’s inclusion, even if they already have or will get the characters they really wanted (but still even if they don’t). I understand being disappointed and such, but being this other way feels rather extreme and childish.

Even worse when they argue against a character’s inclusion with their own opinions as if they’re objective statements, basically saying “this character will never happen because my opinion is better than yours and I know Nintendo and Sakurai will agree.” Then those arguments get debunked with people hoping they just state their opinion normally from now on, only for the arguments to show up again later with someone else or even the same person acting the same way.

 

[Cosmic77]

I believe there is a distinction between “not caring for a character choice” vs “actively being opposed to a character.”

Like

“I’m not a big Minecraft fan, so I don’t really care about seeing Steve in Smash.”

Vs

“Steve in Smash would be a terrible addition, we still need Banjo and Chief first!”

And like, there’s still totally fine ways to express that second opinion. “I prefer Banjo over Steve for (x reason).”

The point isn’t that you should be “happy for other people.”

It’s that you can express your opinion without treating other’s opinions like they’re stupid.

You're doing what I see a lot of users in this thread do. You're sort of assuming that Byleth supporters are the only ones who have to deal with crap from other people. It's not one-sided.

I won't hide the fact that I dislike Byleth, and while I do think that he was a bad choice for a DLC character, I've never pretended that my feelings have been based off of anything else aside my own personal opinions. I don't present anything I say as fact. Despite this, I've been been "corrected" several times by people who can prove why Byleth was an excellent choice and how I belong with the "Too many anime swordsmen!" crowd.

 

[Will]

He's referring to Shang Tsung's clown fatality.

He had a ****ing clown fatality? Man I don't remember MK9 well it seems.

 

[?????????????]

You're doing what I see a lot of users in this thread do. You're sort of assuming that Byleth supporters are the only ones who have to deal with crap from other people. It's not one-sided.

I won't hide the fact that I dislike Byleth, and while I do think that he was a bad choice for a DLC character, I've never pretended that my feelings have been based off of anything else aside my own personal opinions. I don't present anything I say as fact. Despite this, I've been been "corrected" several times by people who can prove why Byleth was an excellent choice and how I belong with the "Too many anime swordsmen crowd!"

I don’t remember how I got on this tangent in the first place, but I do want to reiterate that I don’t think I’ve seen anyone imply the issues I’m insinuating today.

You’re fine. You don’t need to be “corrected.” I am COMPLETELY projecting my own issues because I got on the topic lol

 

[Ben Holt]

Exactly. People are free to dislike and not want a character, but I’ll never understand the people who are rude about it and are actively against the character’s inclusion, even if they already have or will get the characters they really wanted (but still even if they don’t). I understand being disappointed and such, but being this other way feels rather extreme and childish.

The only [video game] character I'm sort of against is Sora, simply because he's technically part of the Disney Universe. You literally visit Woody and Buzz, and that's too close for comfort for me.
I understand that Sora is a VERY popular request, but to me, it'd be like adding Android 21 from Dragon Ball Fighterz. Yea, she technically is a video game character whose origin is in a video game, but it's still part of the Dragon Ball series, which ISN'T a video game series.

Sora is in that same boat. Just like DuckTales music, it's iconic to gaming, but it's existentially tied to Disney.

 

[Knight Dude]

He had a ****ing clown fatality? Man I don't remember MK9 well it seems.

Yeah it's basically the same Fatality as Joker's in MK vs DC, but more violent.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

He had a ****ing clown fatality? Man I don't remember MK9 well it seems.

Here it is.

 

[N3ON]

?????????????
I think the crux is not so much how you feel about a character, but just whether you can handle yourself with some semblance of maturity and respect.

Like, if people don't want a character, I don't see the problem. People are entitled to feel how they want, and no one should have to like something they don't like. Even if they're upset with an addition, I don't see the problem. What matters is just if you're going to handle not wanting a character by being civil about it or by being a ****. If you can be civil, I really don't think it matters how other people feel. They can feel whatever they want.

Ultimately I think people need not infringe on each other's feelings, whether that takes the form of telling people what they like is dumb or bad, or whether it takes the form of telling people how they ought to feel about things. If you can take getting things you don't like in stride, then there's no real problem with not liking things.

Though obviously taking things in stride is not something the fanbase is well-known for, so I get the motive.

 

[Glaciacott]

I guess I'll also go down memory lane:

Honorable mentions: I didn't follow speculation for Melee, but unlocking Marth (a complete unknown), Mewtwo and Game and Watch was super hype. Part of me misses seeing the random Challenger Approaches screens and being surprised.

Brawl
S:
A:
???:

Sonic in Smash was such a gigantic deal that I cannot think of many things that top that moment. Characters in A were ones I was super hyped for when they appeared in the first trailer or showed up randomly on the Dojo, particularly Ike since I believe he was the first one to start that trend.
Lucas and Snake I didn't recognize so while the world went nuts over Snake I was like "who?". Other characters like ZSS and Wario were just "sure, why not"
A bunch of other cool characters were harmed in that they were either leaked or we heard about them from other regions having the game earlier, like Lucario (leaked) and Wolf. I remember there was a large degree of hate towards stuff like Toon Link and R.O.B. or making it in over Geno and Ridley.


Smash 4
I have more memory of the sequence here so I'll just talk about all
cool addition but the hype here was because of Smash 4 getting revealed
top tier reveal, essentially revived classic mega man
Terrible reveal, was done on the E3 floor so you just had random online tweets that sounded fake until they weren't
out of nowhere. Came in a december direct where we thought it was a mario kart trailer or kirby air ride and then suddenly it was smash
awesome; was a highly likely and highly desired pick. Probably middle of the bunch trailer
awesome surprise. Everyone was expecting mewtwo and it came at the tail-end of a smash direct that had a lot of teases and information.
the character wasn't too hype but the trailer of Iwata vs Reggie and reveal of amiibo was an excellent way to start the fantastic 2014 nintendo E3 direct
Highly biased in this one. One of the best reveals for me ever due to my high investment in the character and kid icarus uprising. Beautiful trailer, and the dark pit tease at the end left for a lot of speculation and confusion
terrible reveal for a great addition. One of those we heard about on twitter long before video evidence was shared with the public
another awesome surprise. Everyone was convinced it would be Monado Monday with Shulk's reveal, and Chrom was the expect character. Then out of nowhere it's Lucina and Robin that make it in instead in a really good trailer. I'm also biased in this one as Robin was a desired character I didn't have much hope for.
here's where quality of reveals for the base game went down. For whatever reason shulk was revealed on Japan time, so a lot of us just woke up to learn Shulk was a thing. Would have been significantly more exciting otherwise
unfortunately leaked when the final roster of the 3DS was shown. And since these were THE last characters, disappointment set in for all the ones that didn't make it, particularly those who were "leaked" like isaac and chorus kids
a hype pick and DLC of a new addition that got cut down from greatness thanks to being leaked in datamine alongside Roy
probably the biggest reveal since Sonic. Mega Man, Pac Man, Ryu all were more or less reasonable in the context of Smash. Cloud opened the floodgates much wider than ever before
imo the worst character reveal due to not being known by half the world
cool reveal that was overshadowed by being the last character that wasn't exactly what people expected from the poll

Ultimate
similar as villager. Made sense, but the hype thing here was the news of another Smash
EVERYONE IS HERE: Probably one of the best moments in Smash. Cloud and Snake being back was big, but then when people actually see Pokemon Trainer and PICHU it really sets in what that means. Props to the people who made this trailer
A perfect way to close the E3 reveal and a cherry on top of everyone is here. I still can't believe we're in this timeline
awesome reveal, sadly expected because of leaks. Richter was a great surprise over the expectation of Simon.
Dark Samus to me was super hyped, she looks so cool. Chrom was less interesting for me but deemed inoffensive
I thought K Rool the second the screen shook and was super excited to see this happen. Another excellent moment in Smash history, and seeing how well he was executed was fantastic. Closer to probably one of, if not the best, Smash bros direct
being leaked, talked about, and revealed in a very low energy trailer made this one a very weak reveal for me.
Mixed feelings about this one. Ken and Incineroar being revealed killed one of the more desirable outcomes and confirmed the less desirable theory. However, for me I was also quickly relieved since my concern was Incineroar not being done in an interesting enough way and seeing him in action quickly killed those fears and made him look super cool. Ken also looked amazing, and the trailer is great
Biggest WTF in smash history, even over WFT. I kind of appreciated it due to the randomness of it, but at the same time didn't quite like it. I still feel weird about this one. Still hilarious though
This didn't blow me away as much as other people, for w.e. reason. I had seen Joker support and for some reason thought it wasn't unreasonable, so when the very Persona-esque trailer started I immediately assumed it was for Smash.
Also not particulary hype for me due to being so expected. The trailer was sick though.
Another glorious, glorious moment in Smash history. Grant's beautiful music still gets to me when it comes to this one, and I love LOVE the animation of K. Rool hanging out with the kongs.
I wish the SNK thing hadn't gotten leaked, as this was one of the best trailers ever. I don't care for the character but the love that was put into it made this one an excellent reveal
where everyone was upset, for me it was the exact opposite. I came out of Three Houses loving F!Byleth's design and being super invested in that game, and I recall the night before bemoaning the fact there were so many FE characters because to me it made the chances of Byleth happening so much lower. AND THEN IT HAPPENED. To me this was THE character in the fighter's pass that felt made for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something in here, can't believe how long this got lol. Have to admit that the cycle of smash characters getting revealed is honestly one of the most fun parts of this game. Like a game outside the game. It's been a wild ride.

 

[Idon]

Why are we acting like not wanting characters in is such a bad thing?

Not wanting people you dislike to be in a game you play is perfectly fine. You should feel fine to *actively* not want [insert controversial character here] because you *actively* dislike them.
As long as you're not a toxic ass about it, I'll be down to hear anyone's opinion on any character and whether they should be in or not. And if they get in, feel free to gripe as long as it doesn't come at the expense of others.

 

[N3ON]

There's also the fact that Byleth didn't come in a General Nintendo Direct that might have had him/her sandwiched in between other announcements that could have had even dissatisfied fans happy with what was shown before or after. It was a presentation that would reveal both the character and detail them, so if you weren't excited for that fighter well, all you really had to look forward to was potential fun Mii costumes and the aforementioned hope that the FP6 would be announced.

And Cuphead can only do so much.

Nintendo didn't do themselves many favours with how they revealed Byleth, but to be fair, I don't believe that reveal was their initial plan. And I don't think a reveal at, for example, the VGAs would've gone any better, if not worse.

Ideally controversial characters should always be revealed in tow with other stuff so as to buffer blowback, but that can't always be the reality. It will be interesting to see how future reveals are handled now that the schedule has been thrown off.

 

[?????????????]

Alright, I like what I’m seeing on people’s takes on “disliking.” Because yes, people are allowed to dislike things, but it’s nice if we can be civil.

So let’s see if we can. Let’s talk about our dislikes WITHOUT being judgmental.

I do not like the idea of Dante in Smash. I was particularly opposed back when DmC had never been on a Nintendo console, because while that’s not a “rule,” it’s definitely an aspect I care about in Smash Bros. Even Cloud and Joker don’t bother me in this way because FF and SMT games are very historical to Nintendo. I do not think the appearances in PxZ are enough for me to really call Dante a Nintendo character.

Now, that’s changed a little bit since the ports for Switch. But those are so recent that’d I probably still react with a “yeah, whatever” if we actually got Dante, and then wait for what’s next.

 

[M@R!3]

The only [video game] character I'm sort of against is Sora, simply because he's technically part of the Disney Universe. You literally visit Woody and Buzz, and that's too close for comfort for me.
I understand that Sora is a VERY popular request, but to me, it'd be like adding Android 21 from Dragon Ball Fighterz. Yea, she technically is a video game character whose origin is in a video game, but it's still part of the Dragon Ball series, which ISN'T a video game series.

Sora is in that same boat. Just like DuckTales music, it's iconic to gaming, but it's existentially tied to Disney.

Man, I can't wait for this. All I've ever wanted is for Magneto to team up with the barracuda from Finding Nemo.