Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Opossum]

Opossum I found this quote from an interview (Kotaku interview to Kumazaki, the actual director of Kirby)



Adeleine passed the selection, so she's definitely as much important as any other "Dream Friend", and apparently more important than all those side characters who have been excluded.

Even still, you act as if other series didn't also have big omissions. Frederick, an important and fairly popular Awakening character, didn't get a spirit while other far less important characters did. Understandably, nobody is using that to argue in Frederick's favor for DLC.

I have yet to see a single bit of evidence that a spirit omission means something good for a character that could have been one in the base game. If anything being passed over when they COULD have been made into one is an even worse thing.

 

[Rikarte]

meh...
I can't disagree more.

Really, there are many less important spirits in the game, such as the 3 animal friends exclusive to Dream Land 3 (Pitch, Nago and Chuchu) and Gryll, an obscure character from a japan-only spin-off who only the hardcore Kirby fans know.

If Adeleine has been skipped, it's not because of importance. Also, it's not just Adeleine, but Kirby 64 as a whole that's been skipped. Taranza is not there as well but at least Triple Deluxe is represented with Queen Sectonia. Kirby 64 is an important game in the series, it's really odd that's not represented.

Well technically Kirby 64 is not completely unrepresented because we still have the 02 remix.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, it's always bugged me that Chrom wasn't an Ike echo with a Marth move instead..

Chrom shoulda had a unique moveset, Lucina should have been his echo. Roy should have been Marth's echo. Black Knight should have been Ike's echo.

 

[Wunderwaft]

When is Sakurai gonna give the fans what they want and make a Hanafuda card rep?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Even still, you act as if other series didn't also have big omissions. Frederick, an important and fairly popular Awakening character, didn't get a spirit while other far less important characters did. Understandably, nobody is using that to argue in Frederick's favor for DLC.

There are a few missing spirits from other franchises as well, but now I'm talking of Adeleine specifically, not the missing spirits in general.

I didn't mention the other series simply because I didn't talk about them. I'm just replying to what you said in your previous post that Adeleine is not important, which is not true.

I have yet to see a single bit of evidence that a spirit omission means something good for a character that could have been one in the base game. If anything being passed over when they COULD have been made into one is an even worse thing.

There is no evidence of this, but there's also no evidence against it. There is evidence (as you mentioned yourself) that other important characters have been omitted, so being omitted is not "worse", it's just wrong, developers side.
Unless they purposely omitted them for a reason, but offcourse we don't know if that's the case; it's just a possibility.

By the way, the odd thing about the lack of an Adeleine spirit is that it's the whole game that's been omitted, not just the character; every other major game is referenced somehow. Unless it's just Sakurai bias and he hates that game, the situation is very odd.

 

[Flyboy]

When is Sakurai gonna give the fans what they want and make a Hanafuda card rep?

Pass 2 will be Abraham Lincoln from Project STEAM, Napoleon from Hanafuda, Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors, Gandhi from Civilization, Oda Nobunaga from Pokemon Conquest, and William Shakespeare from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure for the NES.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Byleth is rough because it made PapaGenos angry and Lesley happy :/

I guess there is no perfect scenario.

 

[DarthEnderX]

When is Sakurai gonna give the fans what they want and make a Hanafuda card rep?

I mean...it should at least have a spirit.

 

[kirbsmash]

DarthEnderX

You forgot one little thing.....Ike isn't a prince. Hell, he don't seem to be gracefully at all. How could he be an alt?

 

[TheYungLink]

Now that Byleth is in the game and represents the entire weapon triangle at once (even though I would have preferred entire characters that use an axe or a lance), what other Fire Emblem archetypes would you like to see playable in Smash next?

I've always wanted a mounted unit, a character that rides a horse or a wyvern and such. I thought a Pegasus Knight would be perfect for Smash for a long time, with their wings they can be the first Fire Emblem character with multiple jumps, plus plenty of great mobility in the air in general. They'd be pretty frail defensively to make up for that strength, just like Pegasus Knights in the Fire Emblem games.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Now that Byleth is in the game and represents the entire weapon triangle at once (even though I would have preferred entire characters that use an axe or a lance), what other Fire Emblem archetypes would you like to see playable in Smash next?

I've always wanted a mounted unit, a character that rides a horse or a wyvern and such. I thought a Pegasus Knight would be perfect for Smash for a long time, with their wings they can be the first Fire Emblem character with multiple jumps, plus plenty of great mobility in the air in general. They'd be pretty frail defensively to make up for that strength, just like Pegasus Knights in the Fire Emblem games.

I think a blue haired swordsman would be a cool and original idea

 

[I.D.]

Now that Byleth is in the game and represents the entire weapon triangle at once (even though I would have preferred entire characters that use an axe or a lance), what other Fire Emblem archetypes would you like to see playable in Smash next?

I've always wanted a mounted unit, a character that rides a horse or a wyvern and such. I thought a Pegasus Knight would be perfect for Smash for a long time, with their wings they can be the first Fire Emblem character with multiple jumps, plus plenty of great mobility in the air in general. They'd be pretty frail defensively to make up for that strength, just like Pegasus Knights in the Fire Emblem games.

Horseman, pegasus rider, heavy-ass armored knight, those annoying healers that take forever to level up, a dancer, a bard, a wyvern rider, a thief and an assassin, preferably with some echo fighters too.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Byleth is rough because it made PapaGenos angry and Lesley happy :/

I guess there is no perfect scenario.

tbf, PapaGenos kinda brought this upon himself

he went on record to say that he was content with Banjo and that he'd be perfectly fine with anyone who got in afterwards. lol

 

[Rie Sonomura]

tbf, PapaGenos brought this upon himself

he went on record to say that he was content with Banjo and that he'd be perfectly fine with anyone who got in afterwards. lol

I think he was just upset his Arle theories ended up wrong

 

[KillerCage]

Who do I want in Fighters' Pass 2?

1: Master Chief/Doom Slayer
I don't see both getting in Smash especially when Doom Eternal is giving the Slayer an energy sword.
Chief will always be my dream pick, but I would be quite satisfied if Doomguy got the invite.

2: Sol Badguy/Ragna the Bloodedge
I just want either of these guys for their moveset potential and GODLY music.
I'm leaning toward Ragna though as I have more of an attachment to him despite never playing any Blazblue games.

3: Phoenix Wright/Professor Layton
If we can get a yoga trainer, a secretary, and a toy robot in Smash, I don't see why we can't have a lawyer or a professor fight.
I do prefer Nick though I wouldn't mind Layton accepting the invitation.

4: Agumon
I don't think we are getting a Sword & Shield Pokemon in Smash Ultimate so this is the best alternative.
Plus we could finally do Pokemon vs Digimon.

5: Ryu Hayabusa
I just want Ryu because of ProtonJon repeatedly killing him with kindness... and bullets.

6: Sora
Disney X Nintendo.
Enough said.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

tbf, PapaGenos kinda brought this upon himself

he went on record to say that he was content with Banjo and that he'd be perfectly fine with anyone who got in afterwards. lol

Oh, absolutely.

I think you misunderstood me. I wanted them both to be pissed off due to how stupid and toxic respectively they are

 

[Flyboy]

I think he was just upset his Arle theories ended up wrong

Sakurai: These pics aren't hints, they're just cute images I show to the staff.
Papagenos: [stretches them all to mean hints]
Sakurai: [reveals a character that has nothing to do with the pics of the day]
Papagenos:

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I wish I could understand why folks continue the same tired arguments of, "X character shouldn't be in Smash" or "Y character should be an alternate costume instead of playable".

They're in the game. They're playable.

That sort of discussion isn't productive, and it's frankly reductionist. It also essentially shows that people really don't know what they're talking about with certain characters.

Once again, if we're just going to ignore the fact that Ike and Chrom are both very different characters than Marth, and just make them costumes because "they have blue hair" then I'll do an equally reductionist claim and say what I said yesterday...

Luigi and Wario should be alts of Mario because they wear hats and overalls.

Ridley should be a skin of Charizard because they're both dragons

Falco and Wolf should be skins of Fox because they're bipedal humanoid animals.

See how ridiculous that gets? None of those work, and neither does the Fire Emblem claim. If anyone is wondering why the Fire Emblem complaining gets annoying to people, this is literally why. The folks complaining have shown that they don't actually understand the characters themselves, and it also shows the arguments being made aren't in good faith.

At least, it seems that way to me.

I would again make the recommendation that instead of complaining for 3-4 days in a row about a fictional character in a video that is getting in whether you like it or not (and essentially guarantees that we aren't getting another one among 6 additional characters), to advocate for characters you do support.

I get being disappointed, but at this point? Getting repetitive and incredibly unproductive.

 

[N3ON]

Opossum I found this quote from an interview (Kotaku interview to Kumazaki, the actual director of Kirby)



Adeleine passed the selection, so she's definitely as much important as any other "Dream Friend", and apparently more important than all those side characters who have been excluded.

Kirby content disproportionately skewing towards the games Sakurai created is unfortunate, but really shouldn't be anything unexpected at this point.

 

[Opossum]

Now that Byleth is in the game and represents the entire weapon triangle at once (even though I would have preferred entire characters that use an axe or a lance), what other Fire Emblem archetypes would you like to see playable in Smash next?

I've always wanted a mounted unit, a character that rides a horse or a wyvern and such. I thought a Pegasus Knight would be perfect for Smash for a long time, with their wings they can be the first Fire Emblem character with multiple jumps, plus plenty of great mobility in the air in general. They'd be pretty frail defensively to make up for that strength, just like Pegasus Knights in the Fire Emblem games.

Pegasus Knights are the big one for me. Caeda in particular has a ton to pull from due to her Wing Spear having its effectiveness against armor (and mounts but that doesn't really apply to Smash) while also being probably the most important Pegasus Knight in the series. Having access to flight also eliminates a lot of the ledge awkwardness that a cavalry unit would have.

Heavy Armor is another big one. The issue is this is usually reserved for either minor supporting characters or antagonists, which Smash historically hasn't gone for. Hector or Edelgard would probably be the best picks for this.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't care about PapaGenos and his videos because I always thought they were kind of clickbaity, but I do think it's funny how quick people changed their opinions of him.

We went from, "I appreciate PapaGenos because he's always so chill and relaxed. Really great Youtuber," to "lol I love how angry he is. Dude got what he deserved."

 

[I.D.]

(and essentially guarantees that we aren't getting another one among 6 additional characters)

[X] Doubt

 

[TheYungLink]

Pegasus Knights are the big one for me. Caeda in particular has a ton to pull from due to her Wing Spear having its effectiveness against armor (and mounts but that doesn't really apply to Smash) while also being probably the most important Pegasus Knight in the series. Having access to flight also eliminates a lot of the ledge awkwardness that a cavalry unit would have.

Heavy Armor is another big one. The issue is this is usually reserved for either minor supporting characters or antagonists, which Smash historically hasn't gone for. Hector or Edelgard would probably be the best picks for this.

Those were the ideas I had for Caeda and Hector for a long time, yeah. Though Caeda isn't the protagonist like Marth is, she's still one of the most important characters in the first game, so I felt her inclusion would.be justified in that sense.

 

[SKX31]

Pass 2 will be Abraham Lincoln from Project STEAM, Napoleon from Hanafuda, Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors, Gandhi from Civilization, Oda Nobunaga from Pokemon Conquest, and William Shakespeare from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure for the NES.

Nah, it's gonna be Napoleon from the GBA game Napoleon! Completely different character.

Think about it for a sec:

A) The game was Japan and France-only, meaning it's more exotic.
B) This game has Napoleon fighting ogres, so moveset potential right there. For example, his moveset could be based around reads.
C) The fictional general Alessandro Inzaghi is actually a Spirit in Ultimate (he's listed under the Napoleon game), but Napoleon and his family / generals are completely absent for some reason. Must mean there's something planned right?

It's all coming together.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

I don't care about PapaGenos and his videos because I always thought they were kind of clickbaity, but I do think it's funny how quick people changed their opinions of him.

We went from, "I appreciate PapaGenos because he's always so chill and relaxed. Really great Youtuber," to "lol I love how angry he is. Dude got what he deserved."

I've gone on record saying that I really enjoyed him up until that whole Arle bull**** happened.

I don't mind that he lost his **** on the reaction. I just personally wanted to see him lose his **** because of how crappy his channel became

 

[Lamperouge]

[X] Doubt

Unless they pump out a brand new Fire Emblem game in a year and a half, he's right.

 

[StarBot]

because it made PapaGenos angry

Good

 

[I.D.]

Unless they pump out a brand new Fire Emblem game in a year and a half, he's right.

All it takes is the next Fire Emblem being announced before the end of 2021, which would mean is already in development.
"But Shadows of Valentia"
Came out too late for Nintendo to want to promote it. The next Fire Emblem game will most likely come out in the middle of the Switch's lifetime.

 

[Opossum]

Those were the ideas I had for Caeda and Hector for a long time, yeah. Though Caeda isn't the protagonist like Marth is, she's still one of the most important characters in the first game, so I felt her inclusion would.be justified in that sense.

Oh she's definitely important. She's a legend class spirit for a reason. I think it was one of the Warriors devs that put it the best: you can't have Marth and not Caeda. Smash (and amiibo related stuff) is pretty much the only place where Marth is without her.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Nah, it's gonna be Napoleon from the GBA game Napoleon! Completely different character.

Think about it for a sec:

A) The game was Japan and France-only, meaning it's more exotic.
B) This game has Napoleon fighting ogres, so moveset potential right there. For example, his moveset could be based around reads.
C) The fictional general Alessandro Inzaghi is actually a Spirit in Ultimate (he's listed under the Napoleon game), but Napoleon and his family / generals are completely absent for some reason. Must mean there's something planned right?

It's all coming together.

This is honestly getting annoying.

What Opossum said about me is false

1- I never said missing spirits are going to become fighters in the game for sure, I just said it's a possibility, a chance, and this can't be denied because there is no evidence against it so far.

2- I never said that other franchises don't have important characters missing from the spirits

3- "Nobody is using missing spirits in favor to Frederik", maybe, I don't know, but for sure a lot of people used missing spirit in favor of Porky, Sylux, even Poochy (despite it has a woolly version already) and probably other characters... it's not something I made up, it was a popular theory and while unlikely, it's still valid so far. Some people used that "theory" to support Edelgard, who indeed got added (as a spirit) later, so it's not like there's no evidence at all... Missing spirits can be added later and it already happend at least once (not necessarily as a fighter, even just as spirits added during events or other DLCs).

4- I was just defending the character who was said to be unimportant, I'm not even the person who mentioned the spirits thing in the first place.

so, just stop this.

In a few days this is the second time people make fun of me with this type of posts and I honestly can't stand to it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I wish I could understand why folks continue the same tired arguments of, "X character shouldn't be in Smash" or "Y character should be an alternate costume instead of playable".

They're in the game. They're playable.

It's hypothetical?

Luigi and Wario should be alts of Mario because they wear hats and overalls.

Ridley should be a skin of Charizard because they're both dragons

Falco and Wolf should be skins of Fox because they're bipedal humanoid animals.

Yeah, you already did this bit, like, yesterday.

Response is the same. If characters play the same in their home series(or are just the same character) they can work as an alt.

Characters from different series shouldn't be alts, no matter how similar they are.

 

[N3ON]

I wish I could understand why folks continue the same tired arguments of, "X character shouldn't be in Smash" or "Y character should be an alternate costume instead of playable".

They're in the game. They're playable.

That sort of discussion isn't productive, and it's frankly reductionist. It also essentially shows that people really don't know what they're talking about with certain characters.

Once again, if we're just going to ignore the fact that Ike and Chrom are both very different characters than Marth, and just make them costumes because "they have blue hair" then I'll do an equally reductionist claim and say what I said yesterday...

Luigi and Wario should be alts of Mario because they wear hats and overalls.

Ridley should be a skin of Charizard because they're both dragons

Falco and Wolf should be skins of Fox because they're bipedal humanoid animals.

See how ridiculous that gets? None of those work, and neither does the Fire Emblem claim. If anyone is wondering why the Fire Emblem complaining gets annoying to people, this is literally why. The folks complaining have shown that they don't actually understand the characters themselves, and it also shows the arguments being made aren't in good faith.

At least, it seems that way to me.

I would again make the recommendation that instead of complaining for 3-4 days in a row about a fictional character in a video that is getting in whether you like it or not (and essentially guarantees that we aren't getting another one among 6 additional characters), to advocate for characters you do support.

I get being disappointed, but at this point? Getting repetitive and incredibly unproductive.

Well Dark Pit shouldn't be in Smash because he's the worst around, but I get what you're saying.

 

[Ura]

All it takes is the next Fire Emblem being announced before the end of 2021, which would mean is already in development.
"But Shadows of Valentia"
Came out too late for Nintendo to want to promote it. The next Fire Emblem game will most likely come out in the middle of the Switch's lifetime.

Bruh...

3H is still getting updates through DLC. What makes you think we're getting a brand new, mainline entry of the franchise by 2021? Hell, there was a good 3-4 years between Fates & Three Houses and it got out sooner in part to IntSys' relationship with Koei Tecmo.

At best we're getting a remake, sure but even remake characters aren't prioritized the same way mainline characters are. Celica/Alm not being in Ultimate's base roster is evidence of this and Sakurai would have had ample time to know about their existence since it was developed right after Fates.

Also, remember that Sakurai said he hesitated on Corrin because he thought there were too many FE characters. Sure, the man loves him some FE and I don't doubt Byleth was a strategic decision on the part of Nintendo/IntSys but the man is reasonable enough to not oversaturate the roster like that.

 

[Garteam]

Now that Byleth is in the game and represents the entire weapon triangle at once (even though I would have preferred entire characters that use an axe or a lance), what other Fire Emblem archetypes would you like to see playable in Smash next?

I've always wanted a mounted unit, a character that rides a horse or a wyvern and such. I thought a Pegasus Knight would be perfect for Smash for a long time, with their wings they can be the first Fire Emblem character with multiple jumps, plus plenty of great mobility in the air in general. They'd be pretty frail defensively to make up for that strength, just like Pegasus Knights in the Fire Emblem games.

I really think mounted reps are the way to go. They're one of the major unit types in Fire Emblem and they have basically no representation in Smash. Like, are there spirits depicted with a horse or Pegasus?

As most people in this thread have mentioned, the two characters that seem to fit these two niches are Sigurd and Caeda respectively. It's fitting that the main character of Genealogy brings a horse to Smash, given how OP mounts are in that game. I love Genealogy, but I desperately hope a remake rebalances things a bit. Maybe give mounted units a penalty when fighting a unit guarding a castle?

 

[Deleted member]

This is honestly getting annoying.

What Opossum said about me is false

1- I never said missing spirits are going to become fighters in the game for sure, I just said it's a possibility, a chance, and this can't be denied because there is no evidence against it so far.

2- I never said that other franchises don't have important characters missing from the spirits

3- "Nobody is using missing spirits in favor to Frederik", maybe, I don't know, but for sure a lot of people used missing spirit in favor of Porky, Sylux, even Poochy (despite it has a woolly version already) and probably other characters... it's not something I made up, it was a popular theory and while unlikely, it's still valid so far. Some people used that "theory" to support Edelgard, who indeed got added (as a spirit) later, so it's not like there's no evidence at all... Missing spirits can be added later and it already happend at least once (not necessarily as a fighter, even just as spirits added during events or other DLCs).

4- I was just defending the character who was said to be unimportant, I'm not even the person who mentioned the spirits thing in the first place.

so, just stop this.

In a few days this is the second time people make fun of me with this type of posts and I honestly can't stand to it.

what has the post you're quoting got to do with this

 

[I.D.]

Also, remember that Sakurai said he hesitated on Corrin because he thought there were too many FE characters.

Can someone post this quote please? I also remember seeing it somewhere but at this point I'm starting to believe it might have been some sort of collective hallucination after all.

 

[N3ON]

Can someone post this quote please? I also remember seeing it somewhere but at this point I'm starting to believe it might have been some sort of collective hallucination after all.

I personally felt that having too many Fire Emblem characters was a problem, but after talking it over with the development staff and discussing logistics, I felt certain that I could make them a fun character.

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/23/496/

I like how he doesn't even say he changed his mind that there were too many FE characters, just that he thought he could make Corrin fun.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think a blue haired swordsman would be a cool and original idea

I'd rather have a green haired swordswoman. Preferably with a ponytail.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

what has the post you're quoting got to do with this

The whole post is sarcasm about something that happend earlier in the thread.

 

[MooMew64]

Someone was just innocently mentioning how they thought a character was more important than someone gives them credit for and the thread then starts twisting their words?

Seems about right for this fanbase.