Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

My reaction when people ask for Sora:

Spoiler: NSFW for language

 

[Nekoo]

Which is why I have a suggestion.

A fighter pass with nothing but Capcom characters

*audiences cheer and world peace is achieved to celebrate my idea*

That's basically how I feel with Capcom and Square-Enix.
Both company have so many god damn great Characters that are worth to be in smash and shouuuld be in smash that it always sting a bit to think about who should get in smash first.

Capcom needs to give Dante, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Bison, Chun-li, Joe, Leon, Chris, Jill, a Hunter from MH

Square could just add more and more Final Fantasy Protagonist they're as iconics as each others, Terra/Tina, Bartz, Zidane, Squall, Noctis, Lightning, Tidus, Sora, Lara Croft, ****ING CRONO GOD DAMNIT


It's so hard to say "let's just stop here" for there two companies

 

[SNEKeater]

Honestly as a Final Fantasy fan it hurts seeing no representation of other FF games in Smash. In fact outside of two songs and a stage we have nothing more from FFVII.

I would LOVE to have themes in Smash like Battle on the Big Bridge from FFV, Terra's Theme from FFVI, The Man With the Machine Gun from FFVIII, You're Not Alone from FFIX, Otherworld from FFX or the Boss Battle theme from FFXII, and of course, more themes from VII like One Winged Angel or JENOVA. It's a crime these two themes aren't in Smash.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Because I don't want that **** sullying my Smash Bros.

All they really have to do is take the little Mickey Mouse icon off his keyblade chain.

That's just purism.

More royalties and **** for Disney. Remember, Disney is so goddamn anal about copyright that they take down graves of children if a Disney character is on it, they'd demand significantly more for 2 of their most iconic characters

You imagine Disney evil and all these other companies good, but they are all companies.

 

[Nekoo]

You imagine Disney evil and all these other companies good, but they are all companies.

I mean she's not wrong.
Disney/Marvel really asked a family to remove the tombstone of a child grave because it had Spiderman on it.

 

[HyruleHero]

Honestly as a Final Fantasy fan it hurts seeing no representation of other FF games in Smash. In fact outside of two songs and a stage we have nothing more from FFVII.

I would LOVE to have themes in Smash like Battle on the Big Bridge from FFV, Terra's Theme from FFVI, The Man With the Machine Gun from FFVIII, You're Not Alone from FFIX, Otherworld from FFX or the Boss Battle theme from FFXII, and of course, more themes from VII like One Winged Angel or JENOVA. It's a crime these two themes aren't in Smash.

I agree I hope they get some FFVII Mii costumes that come with some music.

 

[Foxy Alopex]

Since there's more dlc characters on the way here is my choices but no one really knows who will get in

Nintendo characters:

Geno - he might be a costume again or he might be a character this time
Sidon or Impa - they're both quite popular but any of the champions from breath of the wild would make a great addition as well
Daroach or Bandana Waddle Dee - either or but I think it might be Bandana Waddle Dee even though Daroach is my fav Kirby character
Pauline - she might have a chance maybe
Pokemon Gen 8 - new pokemon rep but I don't know who's popular at the moment besides the two wolf legendaries
James McCloud - (Star Fox) maybe not but he could be an echo for Fox
Leon (F-Zero) - wishful thinking
Waluigi - OMG I don't know if he has chance this time or not

Third Party characters:

Klonoa (Klonoa)
Jon Talbain (Darkstalkers)
King (Tekken)
Red Savarin (Solatorobo: Red the Hunter)
Yugo (Bloody Roar)
Asriel (Undertale)
Scorpion or Sub-Zero (Mortal Komabt)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Doom Slayer (Doom)
Leon (Resident Evil)
Master Chief (Halo)
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro the Dragon
Rayman

 

[Megadoomer]

Honestly as a Final Fantasy fan it hurts seeing no representation of other FF games in Smash. In fact outside of two songs and a stage we have nothing more from FFVII.

I would LOVE to have themes in Smash like Battle on the Big Bridge from FFV, Terra's Theme from FFVI, The Man With the Machine Gun from FFVIII, You're Not Alone from FFIX, Otherworld from FFX or the Boss Battle theme from FFXII, and of course, more themes from VII like One Winged Angel or JENOVA. It's a crime these two themes aren't in Smash.

Hopefully Sans sets a precedent for Mii costumes to include music. Admittedly, it could be seen as nickel-and-diming people, which Smash tends to avoid, but if it's the only way to get around whatever rights nonsense is going on with Square-Enix, I'd gladly pay 75 cents (or pay nothing, thanks to eShop gold) for a Sephiroth Mii costume with One Winged Angel, a Gilgamesh costume with Battle on the Big Bridge, a Kefka costume with Dancing Mad or Kefka's theme, a Terra or Aeris costume with their themes, etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean she's not wrong.
Disney/Marvel really asked a family to remove the tombstone of a child grave because it had Spiderman on it.

It wasn't even the only time they pulled that smh. First it was a Winnie the Pooh grave and then it was this

That's just purism.

You imagine Disney evil and all these other companies good, but they are all companies.

Not once did I imply the others are good

Honestly as a Final Fantasy fan it hurts seeing no representation of other FF games in Smash. In fact outside of two songs and a stage we have nothing more from FFVII.

I would LOVE to have themes in Smash like Battle on the Big Bridge from FFV, Terra's Theme from FFVI, The Man With the Machine Gun from FFVIII, You're Not Alone from FFIX, Otherworld from FFX or the Boss Battle theme from FFXII, and of course, more themes from VII like One Winged Angel or JENOVA. It's a crime these two themes aren't in Smash.

Just give me all 4 parts of Dancing Mad

 

[SNEKeater]

Hell how I could forgot Dancing Mad? I absolutely love that song, for me the best final boss theme in Final Fantasy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hell how I could forgot Dancing Mad? I absolutely love that song, for me the best final boss theme in Final Fantasy.

I never even ****ing played Final Fantasu period but Dancing Mad may very well be my favourite piece of music period

 

[DarthEnderX]

Which is why I have a suggestion.

A fighter pass with nothing but Capcom characters

*audiences cheer and world peace is achieved to celebrate my idea*

I'll take it!

Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
Amaterasu [Okami]
Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
Strider Hiryu [Strider]
Phoenix Right [Ace Attorney]
Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]

Oh no! Did I accidentally create TWO Capcom fighters passes? How could I have done this?!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'll take it!

Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
Amaterasu [Okami]
Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
Strider Hiryu [Strider]
Phoenix Right [Ace Attorney]
Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]

Oh no! Did I accidentally create TWO Capcom fighters passes? Shame on me!

You just solved world hunger by doing this

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Which is why I have a suggestion.

A fighter pass with nothing but Capcom characters

*audiences cheer and world peace is achieved to celebrate my idea*

I'd love that idea my idea for a resident evil rep would be to make them all alts of each other Chris Clare Jill Leon will there looks from 1 and 2 respectively

 

[Flyboy]

I'll take it!

Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
Amaterasu [Okami]
Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
Strider Hiryu [Strider]
Phoenix Right [Ace Attorney]
Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]

Oh no! Did I accidentally create TWO Capcom fighters passes? Shame on me!

I'm the asshole who would take an all Street Fighter Pass after a general Capcom pass.

M. Bison/Dictator
Chun-Li
Juri Han
Dan
Sakura

And that's not even including Vega/Claw, Hugo & Poison, and plenty of others I'd love...

Capcom just has so many iconic and awesome characters that'd fit right into the world of Smash.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I'm the ******* who would take an all Street Fighter Pass after a general Capcom pass.

M. Bison/Dictator
Chun-Li
Juri Han
Dan
Sakura

And that's not even including Vega/Claw, Hugo & Poison, and plenty of others I'd love...

Capcom just has so many iconic and awesome characters that'd fit right into the world of Smash.

Juri and Chun would be lovely I'd kill for those two there has to be more cool female characters

 

[DarthEnderX]

I can just imagine the trailer...Mega Man, Ryu and Ken are getting beat up by EVERY Nintendo Smash character...when suddenly...10 more Capcom characters show up to save them!

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

I mean she's not wrong.
Disney/Marvel really asked a family to remove the tombstone of a child grave because it had Spiderman on it.

Here's the thing, you refer to Disney like a monolithic entity. It's made up of many people same as any other company. "Disney" is enormous, and has good and bad people along with any other company. Disney people make games I like, and do things I don't like. That's the reality. I understand that people don't like Disney because of something "they've" done, but the fact is Disney is gonna get money from Sora no matter what. At the same time Disney made many movies and things people like, and it's likely that a lot of people who hate on Disney at some point gave them a good amount of money. It's all rather meaningless.

Not once did I imply the others are good

But the inclusion of characters from other companies is okay, but absolutely not disney. They in particular are crazy about money and will milk you for every cent you have.

 

[Calamitas]

Lets not forget my favorite Smash Fan Meme...."Character is Unlikely and will never happen!" -Character gets in- "Well, you know, that character is so obvious and has always been likely..I mean, who else would they pick for that series/company?"

To be indulgent for my own most wanted for a moment, I can totally see this happening for Elma when she makes it in. There's a whole bunch of stuff pointing towards her, yet people tend to dismiss her because she's not one of the big commonly talked about characters.

Look, I know people would probably get mad, but I'd lose my damn mind if they just randomly slapped Eggman on the roster

Only if he gets copious amounts of voice lines.

 

[Nquoid]

That's basically how I feel with Capcom and Square-Enix.
Both company have so many god damn great Characters that are worth to be in smash and shouuuld be in smash that it always sting a bit to think about who should get in smash first.

Capcom needs to give Dante, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Bison, Chun-li, Joe, Leon, Chris, Jill, a Hunter from MH

Square could just add more and more Final Fantasy Protagonist they're as iconics as each others, Terra/Tina, Bartz, Zidane, Squall, Noctis, Lightning, Tidus, Sora, Lara Croft, ****ING CRONO GOD DAMNIT

It's so hard to say "let's just stop here" for there two companies

Is it weird that Square haven't done as much with all their disparate IPs?

Like capcom have several different franchises devoted to their characters beating up other franchises, but Square have what, Dissidia? Kingdom Hearts? And even then both are pretty much entirely FF.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Is it weird that Square haven't done as much with all their disparate IPs?

Like capcom have several different franchises devoted to their characters beating up other franchises, but Square have what, Dissidia? Kingdom Hearts? And even then both are pretty much entirely FF.

It's funny you say that Enix is the nicer half Square Is the weird one Enix has done plenty of DQxFF stuff plus Mario X Dragon Quest but the last time I saw a final fantasy character in a mario game was on the Wii same with DQ but still

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it weird that Square haven't done as much with all their disparate IPs?

Like capcom have several different franchises devoted to their characters beating up other franchises, but Square have what, Dissidia? Kingdom Hearts? And even then both are pretty much entirely FF.

They got a bunch of mobile gashapon-type games that do the cross-franchise thing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's the thing, you refer to Disney like a monolithic entity. It's made up of many people same as any other company. "Disney" is enormous, and has good and bad people along with any other company. Disney people make games I like, and do things I don't like. That's the reality. I understand that people don't like Disney because of something "they've" done, but the fact is Disney is gonna get money from Sora no matter what. At the same time Disney made many movies and things people like, and it's likely that a lot of people who hate on Disney at some point gave them a good amount of money. It's all rather meaningless.

But the inclusion of characters from other companies is okay, but absolutely not disney. They in particular are crazy about money and will milk you for every cent you have.

How did you get all this from "Disney's going to demand a ****ton of money, more than the budget may allow, to let you lend their most popular characters period"? Genuine question

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Limiting companies to a certain amount of characters is honestly kinda dumb, especially if it's someone like Capcom that has a ton of unique characters. I personally don't care much for a lot of Bamco's offerings aside from Katamari Prince and Velvet, but there's so many Capcom characters that I'd love to see added. Any Resident Evil character, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Dante, and even Chun-Li would all make me extremely happy. I wouldn't even be mad if Capcom ended up having the most characters because they have so many good choices.

 

[pupNapoleon]

People said that after Brawl.
Smash will never be Nintendo only again.
There will always be one greater.
"Once in a lifetime" is nothing but a marketing phrase to pump out sales.
Snake in Brawl was described as a "once in a lifetime" fighter, and now we've had him twice.
In fact, had it not been for the timing of Smash 4 (Kojima and Konami's fallout along with Konami's image as a whole at the time), I guarantee Snake would have been playable in that too.

Your comparison is completely faulty. I am not comparing one allowance from one game to the next- I'm discussing an inevitable point of no return which is going to hit Smash Bros sooner or later (just like every other fighting game, and most continually running stories). There will come a point when a reboot is the only option. Obviously each game cannot keep adding everyone back.

If you actually think the next game is going to start with 90 characters than then try to directly compete with this game, then I am sorry for the let down a decade from now will bring. I reckon at this point, the fact that there can be no bigger next game is why Sakurai is staying on this game. That was probably true each of the last times. However, this time there is an implied guarantee that between licensing, time, and size, the next game is going to have to change directions.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

"Disney would not put their properties in a crossover game with video game characters"

Also Disney:

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I feel like for companies that haven't been in smash yet they get 1 character and then for a company who has it doesn't really matter its just hey let's add this franchise i think that would work out better and cause less fighting probably

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

How did you get all this from "Disney's going to demand a ****ton of money, more than the budget may allow, to let you lend their most popular characters period"? Genuine question

The context of the conversion. People assuming Disney can't be reasonable etc.
Like you seemed pretty happy for Capcom but felt donald and goofy would break the bank. Every company approached by Sakurai wasn't opposed to the idea of smash as far as we know. Let Sakurai worry about money, I'm sure they have enough leverage with the idea of missing out in being one of the biggest fighting games. And if Sakurai is like "nah I don't think Sora will work" then that's how it be.

 

[Megadoomer]

"Disney would not put their properties in a crossover game with video game characters"

Also Disney:

If I had to guess, that was probably a tie-in for Sonic appearing in the Wreck-It Ralph movie, like how Wreck-It Ralph tie-in games were exclusive to Nintendo consoles and Bowser got into the movie.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, before we still start digging into Capcom's extensive vault of characters, let other companies join the battle. I think it's harder to get as excited about Capcom's entries in particular because they've all been in a crossover fighting game before, and thus, are less special when they do show up in Smash. Some people talk about Phoenix Wright and say that they should just lift his moveset mostly from UMvC3 and that's kind of my issue. We've seen what these characters can do in a huge crossover and their appearance isn't entirely abnormal in the same way that say Hero or Cloud currently are. Something like Doom Slayer or Crash would mark the first time these characters are appearing in such a big crossover fighting game and bring something brand new to the table in that regard, and they work to expand the ongoing "copyright crossover." Making impossible things happen rather than just possible seems more interesting of a direction to me.

Besides, I think you're just better served producing a Nintendo VS. Capcom or a Super Smash Bros. X Capcom type game later down the line (and that might be a way to iterate on Smash in the future that allows for a large number of cuts, but fundamentally keeps the hype of third parties and big crossover moments by working so closely with Capcom) rather than just stuffing IP after IP into Ultimate from them. It's not that I dislike Capcom or its IPs (and I suspect we'll end up with another before the end of DLC, which I'm fine with), I'm just less interested in more of its IPs (and especially Street Fighter characters, I do not want to see Chun-Li or M. Bison show up just cause at this point...). I'm similarly minded with Sega, I want to see more companies first rather than more of a focus on the deep dive into their other IPs and secondary characters.

 

[RouffWestie]

Making impossible things happen rather than just possible seems more interesting of a direction to me.

Sans and Megalovania are in the game. Pretty sure they've already hit the peak.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Speaking off... MOBAs are HUGE in China (LoL / Dota 2 in that order. At least on PC.). Overwatch and other FPSes are also really big, alongside simulation games - those three genres are pretty much king there. South Korea loves LoL and Overwatch, but I haven't dug as deep there,

Tracer would also represent FPS' and team-based strategy games well, so if they added her they'd also probably not add another FPS rep like Doomguy. Maybe I'm jumping around, but something to consider.

To be indulgent for my own most wanted for a moment, I can totally see this happening for Elma when she makes it in. There's a whole bunch of stuff pointing towards her, yet people tend to dismiss her because she's not one of the big commonly talked about characters.

I think she's very seldom discussed because XCX wasn't exactly THE game for the Wii U (not calling it bad but it wasn't a game people were rushing to buy a Wii U for), as more notably her presence as a Spirit. Flawed debates aside, I think we can safely assume we're not getting any spirits. Why would the game devs go to all that trouble in making a reference to a specific character, if they're just gonna introduce said character later down the line and completely invalidate their work on said spirit?

anti-Spirit Promotion Prophaganda aside Elma would be one of the coolest first/second parties ngl

 

[SKX31]

Limiting companies to a certain amount of characters is honestly kinda dumb, especially if it's someone like Capcom that has a ton of unique characters. I personally don't care much for a lot of Bamco's offerings aside from Katamari Prince and Velvet, but there's so many Capcom characters that I'd love to see added. Any Resident Evil character, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Dante, and even Chun-Li would all make me extremely happy. I wouldn't even be mad if Capcom ended up having the most characters because they have so many good choices.

I'm not arguing against including more Capcom characters - I'd love that as well. I don't get the impression that Sakurai put a strict limit on that. However, I strongly doubt that the DLC negotiations were strictly limited to the 5 companies that got characters into the game.

Smash has consistently been hyper-successful, so that leads me to believe one thing: Interest in getting into the Fighter's Pass was really really high. Something like 10-20 companies could've expressed interest, from Capcom via Level 5 / FromSoftware to international ones, like Microsoft and Tencent. It's not a stretch to imagine then that's one of the main reasons why Nintendo and Sakurai extended DLC. Furukawa (Nintendo's President) also played a major part here.

As for what it means for Capcom? Capcom could get absolutely both FP5 and one of the later DLC characters. That would require a long DLC lifetime though, so Capcom getting just one of those two options seems more likely. If Sakurai does stay for the really long haul though and aims for 100 characters, who knows?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The context of the conversion. People assuming Disney can't be reasonable etc.
Like you seemed pretty happy for Capcom but felt donald and goofy would break the bank. Every company approached by Sakurai wasn't opposed to the idea of smash as far as we know. Let Sakurai worry about money, I'm sure they have enough leverage with the idea of missing out in being one of the biggest fighting games. And if Sakurai is like "nah I don't think Sora will work" then that's how it be.

Let's compare shall we?
Capcom, a company known for handing out their **** like candy as seen with an official Family Guy flash game having Ryu and ****.

Disney, a company that's known for being stingy as **** about this kind of stuff, and in this context, would be letting Nintendo use 2 of their most iconic characters.

So you REALLY not see the difference? I'm not saying "Disney bad Capcom good" I'm saying "Capcom has a history with being easy to work with and asking Disney for Donald and Goofy would mean high ass royalties on top of Sora's royalties to the point it's very easy to imagine that Nintendo wouldn't want to pay that much money". I even said Sora could easily get in without Donald and Goofy so it's not like I'm making excuses or anything. Licensing is hella expensive and as seen with Smash already, it's not always easy. Then there's **** like MvCI and how Disney characters weren't allowed to be shown getting hurt in trailers and ****

 

[KillerCage]

I also have a gut feeling we'll get another fighting game character in wave 2. If we do then I HOPE its Tekken. It's my favorite fighting game series outside of Smash. I'd choose Heihachi as the rep but I also would be super okay with Kazuya or Jin.

If we WERE to get another fighting rep, I want Ragna the Bloodedge of the Blazblue. I'm certain we don't have a scythe user in Smash yet.

 

[M@R!3]

Do I see talk of Strider Hiryu? Now there's a fun potential addition. Loved his most recent game though I've never played any of the older ones. Still Leon, Dante, Chun Li, and a number of others have him beat in demand by a large margin.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Let's compare shall we?
Capcom, a company known for handing out their **** like candy as seen with an official Family Guy flash game having Ryu and ****.

Disney, a company that's known for being stingy as **** about this kind of stuff, and in this context, would be letting Nintendo use 2 of their most iconic characters.

So you REALLY not see the difference? I'm not saying "Disney bad Capcom good" I'm saying "Capcom has a history with being easy to work with and asking Disney for Donald and Goofy would mean high *** royalties on top of Sora's royalties to the point it's very easy to imagine that Nintendo wouldn't want to pay that much money".

There is a difference, but in this context, in the context of Smash, Sakurai has a lot more power than Disney. At the same time Disney wants Mickey to meet Mario, so perhaps that would behoove them to include their more popular characters in some form, even if it means giving up some money in the short term to make more in the long term.

Licensing is hella expensive and as seen with Smash already, it's not always easy

The biggest disappoint was cloud only getting 2 songs and no spirits. That's why I say Sakurai should go all out so that if Sora gets in it's not similarly disappointing.

Then there's **** like MvCI and how Disney characters weren't allowed to be shown getting hurt in trailers

Lol I thought that was weird, but I have hope that things can work out better in the future.

I even said Sora could easily get in without Donald and Goofy so it's not like I'm making excuses or anything.

Sorry I messed up I didn't mean to imply that. I guess I was trying to say that in world with Sora Donald and Goofy being a package that Sakurai could decide it doesn't work out.

 

[Calamitas]

I think she's very seldom discussed because XCX wasn't exactly THE game for the Wii U (not calling it bad but it wasn't a game people were rushing to buy a Wii U for), as more notably her presence as a Spirit. Flawed debates aside, I think we can safely assume we're not getting any spirits. Why would the game devs go to all that trouble in making a reference to a specific character, if they're just gonna introduce said character later down the line and completely invalidate their work on said spirit?

anti-Spirit Promotion Prophaganda aside Elma would be one of the coolest first/second parties ngl

Yeah, no, I still ain't buying that. They already went to explicitly greater troubles to make trophies for veterans returning as DLC in Smash 4. So why should a spirit - which they were quite clear on were made because they were far less work than trophies - prevent any character from getting an upgrade? Especially with DLC beyond the Fighter's Pass being confirmed?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

People arguing against Sora: Sora fans get so defensive when people argue he's not likely
Also people arguing against Sora:

My reaction when people ask for Sora:

Spoiler: NSFW for language

Sorry I messed up I didn't mean to imply that. I guess I was trying to say that in world with Sora Donald and Goofy being a package that Sakurai could decide it doesn't work out.

I don't think Sakurai would give up on Sora just because he couldn't get Dolan and Gooby. He's not that much of a purist.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think she's very seldom discussed because XCX wasn't exactly THE game for the Wii U (not calling it bad but it wasn't a game people were rushing to buy a Wii U for), as more notably her presence as a Spirit. Flawed debates aside, I think we can safely assume we're not getting any spirits. Why would the game devs go to all that trouble in making a reference to a specific character, if they're just gonna introduce said character later down the line and completely invalidate their work on said spirit?

anti-Spirit Promotion Prophaganda aside Elma would be one of the coolest first/second parties ngl

I think it’s safe to say spirits were chosen before Season 2 DLC was planned out.