Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Captain Shades]

One even IF that leak was true, not a lot of people are fans of gothitelle, Shes a weird Goth, based pokemon that isn't even that popular in her own region, Zoroark as I said before, could also be an echo fighter of Greninja and as seen with chrom, he could borrow moves from other pokemon too! Because hes a villian and had a movie based on him before gen 5 even began! Look at each pokemon already in the roster everyone (except for ivysaur) huge pokemon that can carry their own weight, and even Ivysaur is so similar to bulbasaur that people just call him such. I get that you might like gothitelle... but shes just not coming to smash.

Two, like I adressed before, Dark meta knight would just work better as a skin, a lot of people still give dark pit flack because he basically just a skin for pit, I don't really think bonkers should be in smash (just throwing it out there) but I do think that each echo we have right now is similar to their counterpart, but not to similar, Daisy, highly requested character and took the place of peach in the mario land games, she also starred in almmost every sports game as peaches counterpart, Richter, simons son with the same build and similar moves in game, Dark samus, huge character in the metroid prime games, very similar to samus but they made her look unique enougth, chrom and lucina I know absolutley nothing about FE so I can't comment on that, and I already talked about dark pit, if you can thing of a way to make dark meta knight look more unique and different, I reconsider my opinion.

What about bayonettas charmellina skin! sakurai never that 3rd parties can't have alternate skins, if he did then I would think Mrs. Pac man would only get in being an echo. But he never did so you can't argue something that he NEVER said.

Four, I'm almost convinced that geno will be the last revieled newcomer so.. ya.

Bayonetta doesn’t have a Charmellina skin? I check out all her alternates on the Wiki and there is literally no skin like the one you mentioned. Even searching it up yields no results.

Sakurai may not have said anything about skins, but using what we know from Sonic, being that Sega has heavy control over his costumes as to not allow them to be anything but shades of blue, we can assume that 3rd parties don’t want alternate skins. If they did, why didn’t Mrs. Pac-Man show up in Wii U. Also Pac-Man’s costumes have already been shown off, so Mrs. Pac-Man has to be an echo.

Whoa...Do you know who Dark Metaknight is, he is far from a skin.

As for your point on Pokémon, okay, how many of them can actually carry their weight? Lets be real here, if we were selecting Pokémon now a days, then Jigglypuff and Pichu would never be in Smash, hell maybe not even Squirtle or Ivysaur. The main reason Jigglypuff is popular is due to Smash. Smash takes risks with Pokémon, they’ve done it with Greninja and so many of the ones selected. Gothitelle could gain popularity from Smash, while being an echo of an already established as popular character, uniting the generations. Gen 5 wasn’t loved, so they mine as well have fun and take one risk in this new Smash. I think she’ll be relieved well, people just need to see her in to warm up to the idea. Honestly, I really don’t care which Pokémon gets in, I just think people shouldn’t write off the idea too quickly

 

[StormC]

Sakurai isn't going to add arbitrary reps to represent old generations.

It's also not really his call to be honest. The Pokemon Company has the final say.

 

[Captain Shades]

Sakurai isn't going to add arbitrary reps to represent old generations.

It's also not really his call to be honest. The Pokemon Company has the final say.

What if people want a character from Gen 5? This game is going off fan demand throughout Smash’s history after all and many requested a gen 5 character going into Wii U, and they probably requested a gen 3 due to the 3DS remakes during the ballot. There are tons of Pokémon requests and with the reasoning section of the ballot, many have probably requested them to fill the generations so the selection is more complete.

What about all those trends, like villains and females that came into Smash games. People request general things, and it seems that Sakurai wants to adhere to requests. Lack of villains in Wii U, well here’s K Rool and Ridley, along with Dark Samus and potentially Skull Kid and the Black Knight. Pokémon are always a challenge to pick based on popularity anyway, so why not just take the generations approach and try to complete the roster as we’re only missing two (excluding 8 as it was too new).

Also I doubt the Pokémon Company cares at this point. Their newest titles with Let’s Go already have like 6 Pokémon, so would going back to old generations really be offensive, after we’ve already learned that Sakurai can just up and take a character that he thinks is cool and walk off with the beta designs for Smash. Greninja wasn’t picked by the Pokémon Company, that was all Sakurai, and the Pokémon Company just seemed to go along with the decision afterwards. People always sa6 that Sakurai has more power than we think, so I doubt a Nintendo owned company that has benefited off his games greatly would really go against him to much.

 

[StormC]

What about all those trends, like villains and females that came into Smash games.

What about them?

Those characters that got in were either highly requested or had some other significant reason to be in the game. Sakurai wasn't adding "female reps" or "villains reps," he was adding characters. He's surely not going to develop multiple Pokemon fighters just to fill arbitrary gaps in the roster, especially if it is about fanservice and there are far more pressing additions in that regard. Sakurai has never indicated he cares about these things with Pokemon, and TPC won't push for it when it's their best interest to have a gen 7 fighter in order to promote their recent games and merchandise.

The only reason people are even entertaining this because of an incredibly flimsy text leak (stealing a demo? what is this, Ocean's 11?) that got a lucky guess right with Richter. Otherwise nobody would even be talking about gen 3 and gen 5 characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Lets be real here, if we were selecting Pokémon now a days, then Jigglypuff and Pichu would never be in Smash, hell maybe not even Squirtle or Ivysaur. The main reason Jigglypuff is popular is due to Smash.

First of all, despite being controversial choices in Smash, Jigglypuff and Pichu are among the top 100 most popular Pokemon of all time. Second, it's more like popularity, combined with having another pink puffball to work off of and having a running gag in the anime, is why Jigglypuff could get into Smash 64.

And how would TPC benefit from making Gothitelle more popular when it can't be found in Let's Go and Go is focusing on gen 4 right now? They'd rather focus on already established popularity if we're gonna add gen 3 and 5 Pokemon.

 

[Daedulus]

Bayonetta doesn’t have a Charmellina skin? I check out all her alternates on the Wiki and there is literally no skin like the one you mentioned. Even searching it up yields no results.

Sakurai may not have said anything about skins, but using what we know from Sonic, being that Sega has heavy control over his costumes as to not allow them to be anything but shades of blue, we can assume that 3rd parties don’t want alternate skins. If they did, why didn’t Mrs. Pac-Man show up in Wii U. Also Pac-Man’s costumes have already been shown off, so Mrs. Pac-Man has to be an echo.

Whoa...Do you know who Dark Metaknight is, he is far from a skin.

As for your point on Pokémon, okay, how many of them can actually carry their weight? Lets be real here, if we were selecting Pokémon now a days, then Jigglypuff and Pichu would never be in Smash, hell maybe not even Squirtle or Ivysaur. The main reason Jigglypuff is popular is due to Smash. Smash takes risks with Pokémon, they’ve done it with Greninja and so many of the ones selected. Gothitelle could gain popularity from Smash, while being an echo of an already established as popular character, uniting the generations. Gen 5 wasn’t loved, so they mine as well have fun and take one risk in this new Smash. I think she’ll be relieved well, people just need to see her in to warm up to the idea. Honestly, I really don’t care which Pokémon gets in, I just think people shouldn’t write off the idea too quickly

Sorry about the charmellina thing, I recently was playing a mod for ssb4, guess I just thought that would carry over, but even so, sonic is owned by a completely different company, we can't assume that, And even sonic skin's are actually very big callbacks to sonics other games, mrs pac man won't make the base roster, I'm almost sure of it, sakurai adds echos that have been requested, the truth is is that nobody has requested mrs pac man. Jigglypuff is huge no matter which way you spin it, talk to anyone who dosent know a lot about pokemon and they'll most likely know about jigglypuff, pichu can still carry his own because he is a baby pikachu, the pokemon company is ssoo big that they have the power to make certain pokemon popular, (just look a their MASCOT), but gothitelles time has already passed, gen 5 was loved by a lot of people for changing the series up and doing something different,

And dark meta knight......... the one thing you take from this is this, okay, to you he is more than just a skin, but to EVERYONE else who doesn't follow kirby, he is just dark meta knight but with a scare, IT IS FINE to want to add characters you like, and IT IS FINE to add your own predictions, but what YOU HAVE to take into account when critically analyzing a characters chances in smash is what the GENERAL AUDIENCE THINKS.

I do not want to sound snarky or rude I just want you to know what the genral audience thinks, I will not talk about this subject more unless it is urgent. You are looking for something when their is nothing to found,

Thank you all for taking the to read this, Daedulus

 

[Misery Brick]

As for your point on Pokémon, okay, how many of them can actually carry their weight? Lets be real here, if we were selecting Pokémon now a days, then Jigglypuff and Pichu would never be in Smash, hell maybe not even Squirtle or Ivysaur. The main reason Jigglypuff is popular is due to Smash. Smash takes risks with Pokémon, they’ve done it with Greninja and so many of the ones selected. Gothitelle could gain popularity from Smash, while being an echo of an already established as popular character, uniting the generations. Gen 5 wasn’t loved, so they mine as well have fun and take one risk in this new Smash. I think she’ll be relieved well, people just need to see her in to warm up to the idea. Honestly, I really don’t care which Pokémon gets in, I just think people shouldn’t write off the idea too quickly

Jigglypuff was one of the most popular Pokémon back during the days of Gen 1, and even still bolsters popularity from her appearances in the anime. Smash may have helped elevate her popularity, but in no way is it the sole factor for it.
Pichu, outside of Togepi, was the face of baby Pokémon and arguably of Gen 2. Still has popularity on a much higher scale due to it being closely related to Pikachu.
While how selective TPCI and Game Freak are with their brand nowadays, I doubt they would be frontrunners, but they're still popular and adored Pokémon so they very well could've still made it into Smash today, especially if they could've been made in similar conditions as they once were.
I mean Pichu still did, despite being a veteran, GF and TPCI could've told them no on his inclusion, but here he is.

Also, you're going to argue the popularity of Squirtle and Ivysaur?
They're apart of the original starter trio and are tied to the design of Red, the first playable trainer in Pokémon history, and the theme of evolution. Regardless if one single stage of them is more loved than the other, they're still iconic in their own right and hold their own weight.
They have their popularity, and that isn't an argument. While, yes, Charizard was the sole character to return in Smash 4, I'll bet it was only for promotional reasons on the side of TPCI to showcase X and Y, and the mechanics of Mega Evolution.
Regardless of the fact, if there wasn't technical issues behind their inclusion, they would still be here, and possibly with the new mechanic changes that they have in Smash Ultimate.

Dude, Gothitelle isn't happening. That's what many people have explained and attempted to address to you, is that the leak is fake. Gothitelle is a Pokémon that GF ignores, and is no way on the same level of popularity as the others included in the roster. Hell, even the proportions between Gardevoir and Gothitelle don't match up as they have completely different anatomy.

 

[zabimaru1000]

What's everyone's stance on Disney being used in Smash? More specifically about Kingdom Hearts.

The unofficial ballot has considered Sora a realizable character. But there seems to be some kind of grey area where people dismiss the plausibility of Kingdom Hearts in Smash purely because Sora is a Disney character but also a video game originated character as well.

 

[Daedulus]

What's everyone's stance on Disney being used in Smash? More specifically about Kingdom Hearts.

The unofficial ballot has considered Sora a realizable character. But there seems to be some kind of grey area where people dismiss the plausibility of Kingdom Hearts in Smash purely because Sora is a Disney character but also a video game originated character as well.

As cool as it would be cool to see sorta in smash, Nintendo would have to deal with a company waaaayy bigger than them, and also one that hasn’t had the greatest rep for working cooperatively with other companies

 

[Captain Shades]

When you create a list with Steve from Minecraft on it and the most controversial pick is the Pokémon

I really shouldn’t have even tried with Pokémon, I’ll admit that I don’t particularly know the series well, and the popularity of characters seems to fluctuate every 5 seconds. We all like Decidueye, but apparently now we hate him and hope he doesn’t make it to Smash. I should have stayed with the series I know better, but I still feel that Sun & Moon won’t make it. This game is filled with heavy fan service, so won’t it make sense to go for other factors than most recent.

I think I’m trying to argue more gen representation than for the specific character, so I’ll drop Gothitelle and Gardevoir. I believe that Sakurai will try to complete the 6 gens that were present before development, regardless of who the characters are as I believe that would be a good way to please the Pokémon community. One will definitely be an echo though, so I’m counting on a gen 5 echo while 3 gets a new character, most likely Gardevoir, which no one here seems to be against. Remember the Gen 3 remakes were the most recent games to come out before development and the ballot, so I’m sure that’d be a heavy hitter on Smash’s radar.

As for Sun & Moon, I bet DLC will probably include them as now we can accurately see which Pokémon is the most popular, and it’ll sell tremendously well as it’ll be a Pokémon, then gen 8 will probably also have a DLC rep.

To also add, Fire Emblem, which works very similarly to Pokémon, is speculated to only be receiving older characters, so Pokémon being taken from older gens isn’t that much of a stretch.

Misery Brick , My point was, would they be requested for Smash if they had not already been in? I heavily doubt that Jiggly Puff, or Pichu would be on people’s want list for a new title. Even Ivysaur and Squirtle don’t seem like they’d have the popularity to be in Smash because of fan requests and not Sakurai picking Pokémon he wants or feels could add to the roster, as Squirtle and Ivysaur were really only there for the switching mechanic as Charizard was the star of the show.

Otherwise nobody would even be talking about gen 3 and gen 5 characters.

Is that why SmashBoards and the community in general have been wanting Sceptile and Gardevoir, both Gen 3 Pokémon with huge support groups in the Smash community. While I can’t say gen 5 is particularly popular, I’m sure people would enjoy a rep from it regardless, especially if it was an echo


Daedulus , Dark Meta Knight is popular though, or is at least in Chrom range to be considered as an echo. He is different enough to be one having many mirror mechanics that can lead to a few new animations. He’s also relevant being in the two Kirby 3DS titles and Star Allies, so he seems to be reoccurring.

Why is it okay for Dark Samus to be an echo, but not Dark Meta Knight? They are both characters that could easily be costumes, and before anyone says Dark Samus is different, just look at how Dark Meta Knight fights in the recent titles, going in and out of mirrors.

 

[StormC]

Is that why SmashBoards and the community in general have been wanting Sceptile and Gardevoir, both Gen 3 Pokémon with huge support groups in the Smash community. While I can’t say gen 5 is particularly popular, I’m sure people would enjoy a rep from it regardless, especially if it was an echo

Sceptile was largely desired to fill out the "type triangle" with Charizard and Greninja. Gardevoir isn't popular, its character thread had two pages before the "leak" got circulation.

Also there's no reason for them to bother with a SM Pokemon as DLC when gen 8 will be coming soon. It's more likely a gen 8 Pokemon will happen with a gen 7 Pokemon in the base game, much like how Robin was in base Smash 4 and Corrin was DLC. The theme of "fan favorites" doesn't apply to literally every single character (Inklings were getting in whether they had the ballot or not), and Pokemon as a franchise makes more money than Star Wars, so it would be trivial for TPC/Sakurai to include an SM Pokemon early like they did with Greninja just because of how enormous the series is.

Sakurai has never said anything close to "I would like to represent as many Pokemon generations as possible" and the fans largely don't care.

 

[Daedulus]

When you create a list with Steve from Minecraft on it and the most controversial pick is the Pokémon

I really shouldn’t have even tried with Pokémon, I’ll admit that I don’t particularly know the series well, and the popularity of characters seems to fluctuate every 5 seconds. We all like Decidueye, but apparently now we hate him and hope he doesn’t make it to Smash. I should have stayed with the series I know better, but I still feel that Sun & Moon won’t make it. This game is filled with heavy fan service, so won’t it make sense to go for other factors than most recent.

I think I’m trying to argue more gen representation than for the specific character, so I’ll drop Gothitelle and Gardevoir. I believe that Sakurai will try to complete the 6 gens that were present before development, regardless of who the characters are as I believe that would be a good way to please the Pokémon community. One will definitely be an echo though, so I’m counting on a gen 5 echo while 3 gets a new character, most likely Gardevoir, which no one here seems to be against. Remember the Gen 3 remakes were the most recent games to come out before development and the ballot, so I’m sure that’d be a heavy hitter on Smash’s radar.

As for Sun & Moon, I bet DLC will probably include them as now we can accurately see which Pokémon is the most popular, and it’ll sell tremendously well as it’ll be a Pokémon, then gen 8 will probably also have a DLC rep.

To also add, Fire Emblem, which works very similarly to Pokémon, is speculated to only be receiving older characters, so Pokémon being taken from older gens isn’t that much of a stretch.

Misery Brick , My point was, would they be requested for Smash if they had not already been in? I heavily doubt that Jiggly Puff, or Pichu would be on people’s want list for a new title. Even Ivysaur and Squirtle don’t seem like they’d have the popularity to be in Smash because of fan requests and not Sakurai picking Pokémon he wants or feels could add to the roster, as Squirtle and Ivysaur were really only there for the switching mechanic as Charizard was the star of the show.


Is that why SmashBoards and the community in general have been wanting Sceptile and Gardevoir, both Gen 3 Pokémon with huge support groups in the Smash community. While I can’t say gen 5 is particularly popular, I’m sure people would enjoy a rep from it regardless, especially if it was an echo


Daedulus , Dark Meta Knight is popular though, or is at least in Chrom range to be considered as an echo. He is different enough to be one having many mirror mechanics that can lead to a few new animations. He’s also relevant being in the two Kirby 3DS titles and Star Allies, so he seems to be reoccurring.

Why is it okay for Dark Samus to be an echo, but not Dark Meta Knight? They are both characters that could easily be costumes, and before anyone says Dark Samus is different, just look at how Dark Meta Knight fights in the recent titles, going in and out of mirrors.

Sceptile was largely desired to fill out the "type triangle" with Charizard and Greninja. Gardevoir isn't popular, its character thread had two pages before the "leak" got circulation.

Also there's no reason for them to bother with a SM Pokemon as DLC when gen 8 will be coming soon. It's more likely a gen 8 Pokemon will happen with a gen 7 Pokemon in the base game, much like how Robin was in base Smash 4 and Corrin was DLC. The theme of "fan favorites" doesn't apply to literally every single character (Inklings were getting in whether they had the ballot or not), and Pokemon as a franchise makes more money than Star Wars, so it would be trivial for TPC/Sakurai to include an SM Pokemon early like they did with Greninja just because of how enormous the series is.

Sakurai has never said anything close to "I would like to represent as many Pokemon generations as possible" and the fans largely don't care.

So i guess im responding now. Have you ever played a metroid prime game? Then you know how big dark samus is, she's like the main antagonist, dark meta knight was the main antag, in 1 or 2 kirbies games, which their a re 1 million of I might add!

Smash shoudn't be about adding as many reps as possible! Smash should and is about creating a balanced fighting game that people love. People get way to caught up in stuff like that. The only thing series should need is a villian main character and maybe a side.

 

[Misery Brick]

When you create a list with Steve from Minecraft on it and the most controversial pick is the Pokémon

I really shouldn’t have even tried with Pokémon, I’ll admit that I don’t particularly know the series well, and the popularity of characters seems to fluctuate every 5 seconds. We all like Decidueye, but apparently now we hate him and hope he doesn’t make it to Smash. I should have stayed with the series I know better, but I still feel that Sun & Moon won’t make it. This game is filled with heavy fan service, so won’t it make sense to go for other factors than most recent.

I think I’m trying to argue more gen representation than for the specific character, so I’ll drop Gothitelle and Gardevoir. I believe that Sakurai will try to complete the 6 gens that were present before development, regardless of who the characters are as I believe that would be a good way to please the Pokémon community. One will definitely be an echo though, so I’m counting on a gen 5 echo while 3 gets a new character, most likely Gardevoir, which no one here seems to be against. Remember the Gen 3 remakes were the most recent games to come out before development and the ballot, so I’m sure that’d be a heavy hitter on Smash’s radar.

As for Sun & Moon, I bet DLC will probably include them as now we can accurately see which Pokémon is the most popular, and it’ll sell tremendously well as it’ll be a Pokémon, then gen 8 will probably also have a DLC rep.

To also add, Fire Emblem, which works very similarly to Pokémon, is speculated to only be receiving older characters, so Pokémon being taken from older gens isn’t that much of a stretch.

Misery Brick , My point was, would they be requested for Smash if they had not already been in? I heavily doubt that Jiggly Puff, or Pichu would be on people’s want list for a new title. Even Ivysaur and Squirtle don’t seem like they’d have the popularity to be in Smash because of fan requests and not Sakurai picking Pokémon he wants or feels could add to the roster, as Squirtle and Ivysaur were really only there for the switching mechanic as Charizard was the star of the show.


Is that why SmashBoards and the community in general have been wanting Sceptile and Gardevoir, both Gen 3 Pokémon with huge support groups in the Smash community. While I can’t say gen 5 is particularly popular, I’m sure people would enjoy a rep from it regardless, especially if it was an echo


Daedulus , Dark Meta Knight is popular though, or is at least in Chrom range to be considered as an echo. He is different enough to be one having many mirror mechanics that can lead to a few new animations. He’s also relevant being in the two Kirby 3DS titles and Star Allies, so he seems to be reoccurring.

Why is it okay for Dark Samus to be an echo, but not Dark Meta Knight? They are both characters that could easily be costumes, and before anyone says Dark Samus is different, just look at how Dark Meta Knight fights in the recent titles, going in and out of mirrors.

Haha, it's all good.
I mean I can see your point about fan requested characters, like Jiggs and Pichu definitely wouldn't be the forerunners for Smash. While I wouldn't necessarily agree with that on Ivysaur and Squirtle, as Blastoise and Squirtle have always been fan favorites especially out here in the US.
Ivysaur or any other variation, probably not though.
Like I said before though, I do think Gardevoir actually has a chance for this game. She has the popularity to back it up and the timing of ORAS significantly helps her case.
The only problem is that she's stuck in a four way competition with Deoxys, Sceptile, and Blaziken. I honestly think we may get a Hoenn Pokémon over an Alolan one just judging off how Sceptile and a few others did off previous fan ballots, but that's for another convo.
It's just out of all the characters, I seriously doubt Gothitelle would make it in, even as an echo. Proportions don't match up and not to mention her being a practically unknown and irrelevant Pokémon in the wider scope of the franchise. (Sorry Gothitelle fans.)
But everyone has their favorite Pokémon, and every Pokémon has their fan.
Like this is coming from someone that loves and to death. So I'm sure if she got in, more people would definitely love her inclusion and even grow to like her. I just doubt that she would happen, given based off the Pokémon here so far, they all have some sort of popularity they harbor while Gothitelle doesn't.
But hey, debates and discussion are the fun of speculation! That's what this board is here for after all!

 

[GoodGrief741]

What's everyone's stance on Disney being used in Smash? More specifically about Kingdom Hearts.

The unofficial ballot has considered Sora a realizable character. But there seems to be some kind of grey area where people dismiss the plausibility of Kingdom Hearts in Smash purely because Sora is a Disney character but also a video game originated character as well.

I am a firm believer that Sora could make it in without any Disney content, barring maybe the Mickey shaped keychain on his Keyblade. Just make the stage Traverse Town or The World that Never Was, Riku as an AT and keep all songs original. It can be done.

When you create a list with Steve from Minecraft on it and the most controversial pick is the Pokémon

I really shouldn’t have even tried with Pokémon, I’ll admit that I don’t particularly know the series well, and the popularity of characters seems to fluctuate every 5 seconds. We all like Decidueye, but apparently now we hate him and hope he doesn’t make it to Smash. I should have stayed with the series I know better, but I still feel that Sun & Moon won’t make it. This game is filled with heavy fan service, so won’t it make sense to go for other factors than most recent.

I think I’m trying to argue more gen representation than for the specific character, so I’ll drop Gothitelle and Gardevoir. I believe that Sakurai will try to complete the 6 gens that were present before development, regardless of who the characters are as I believe that would be a good way to please the Pokémon community. One will definitely be an echo though, so I’m counting on a gen 5 echo while 3 gets a new character, most likely Gardevoir, which no one here seems to be against. Remember the Gen 3 remakes were the most recent games to come out before development and the ballot, so I’m sure that’d be a heavy hitter on Smash’s radar.

As for Sun & Moon, I bet DLC will probably include them as now we can accurately see which Pokémon is the most popular, and it’ll sell tremendously well as it’ll be a Pokémon, then gen 8 will probably also have a DLC rep.

To also add, Fire Emblem, which works very similarly to Pokémon, is speculated to only be receiving older characters, so Pokémon being taken from older gens isn’t that much of a stretch.

Misery Brick , My point was, would they be requested for Smash if they had not already been in? I heavily doubt that Jiggly Puff, or Pichu would be on people’s want list for a new title. Even Ivysaur and Squirtle don’t seem like they’d have the popularity to be in Smash because of fan requests and not Sakurai picking Pokémon he wants or feels could add to the roster, as Squirtle and Ivysaur were really only there for the switching mechanic as Charizard was the star of the show.


Is that why SmashBoards and the community in general have been wanting Sceptile and Gardevoir, both Gen 3 Pokémon with huge support groups in the Smash community. While I can’t say gen 5 is particularly popular, I’m sure people would enjoy a rep from it regardless, especially if it was an echo


Daedulus , Dark Meta Knight is popular though, or is at least in Chrom range to be considered as an echo. He is different enough to be one having many mirror mechanics that can lead to a few new animations. He’s also relevant being in the two Kirby 3DS titles and Star Allies, so he seems to be reoccurring.

Why is it okay for Dark Samus to be an echo, but not Dark Meta Knight? They are both characters that could easily be costumes, and before anyone says Dark Samus is different, just look at how Dark Meta Knight fights in the recent titles, going in and out of mirrors.

Sorry, but Dark Meta Knight is not popular enough to make it in. You don’t see any support for him anywhere (in fact, I didn’t know he existed until people suggested him on these forums after 8.8). And the comparison with Dark Samus is not a good one, seeing how Dark Samus was actually heavily requested, and how she was the main villain of the Metroid Prime Trilogy while Dark Meta Knight’s only appearances are as a boss in one game, a bonus boss in another, and a Dream Friend in a game where everyone and their mother was a Dream Friend.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

So i guess im responding now. Have you ever played a metroid prime game? Then you know how big dark samus is, she's like the main antagonist, dark meta knight was the main antag, in 1 or 2 kirbies games, which their a re 1 million of I might add!

Smash shoudn't be about adding as many reps as possible! Smash should and is about creating a balanced fighting game that people love. People get way to caught up in stuff like that. The only thing series should need is a villian main character and maybe a side.

Dark Samus is relevant in 3 games, Dark Metaknight is relevant in 3 games, they're the same.

-Dark Metaknight is the major antagonist of Kirby & The Amazing Mirror, along with Dark Mind.
-Dark Metaknight appears as a bonus boss in Kirby Triple Deluxe. It's explained by the developers that he's the evil mind behind every event in the game, even if it's not explicitly stated by the story of the game.
-Dark Metaknight is a playable character in Kirby Star Allies.

Maybe he's not the antagonist of a whole trilogy, but he's of at least 2 games, and the third one has him playable, so I don't see how he is inferior to Dark Samus. Maybe Dark Samus will return in MP4, then she would have an additional game, but Dark Metaknight may come back as well.

IMO Dark Metaknight could work well as an echo, even though he would be way more interesting as an unique character/semiclone due to the mirrors gimmicks (but that will never happen).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Dark Samus is relevant in 3 games, Dark Metaknight is relevant in 3 games, they're the same.

-Dark Metaknight is the major antagonist of Kirby & The Amazing Mirror, along with Dark Mind.
-Dark Metaknight appears as a bonus boss in Kirby Triple Deluxe. It's explained by the developers that he's the evil mind behind every event in the game, even if it's not explicitly stated by the story of the game.
-Dark Metaknight is a playable character in Kirby Star Allies.

Maybe he's not the antagonist of a whole trilogy, but he's of at least 2 games, and the third one has him playable, so I don't see how he is inferior to Dark Samus. Maybe Dark Samus will return in MP4, then she would have an additional game, but Dark Metaknight may come back as well.

IMO Dark Metaknight could work well as an echo, even though he would be way more interesting as an unique character/semiclone due to the mirrors gimmicks (but that will never happen).

I don’t know how you think their appearances are comparable. Dark Meta Knight is important in only one of the games he appears in. In Triple Deluxe his only in-game appearance is within a bonus mode, and in Star Allies he is no more important than Daroach or Gooey.

You must also think about the importance of the games within the series. The Prime games are three of the best received Metroid games, while Amazing Mirror was pretty forgotten.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I don’t know how you think their appearances are comparable. Dark Meta Knight is important in only one of the games he appears in. In Triple Deluxe his only in-game appearance is within a bonus mode, and in Star Allies he is no more important than Daroach or Gooey.

You must also think about the importance of the games within the series. The Prime games are three of the best received Metroid games, while Amazing Mirror was pretty forgotten.

I disagree.
First, it's not true that Amazing Mirror has been forgotten, as I believe it's one of the most appreciated games by the Kirby fans after Kirby Superstar (I'm more of a Dark Matter trilogy fan, I'm not speaking for myself here).

Then, in Kirby Triple Deluxe he's important. It's true that it has been stated on other media and not in the game (Miiverse and other stuff), but the story that Dark Metaknight is behind all the events of the game is canon (Taranza found the Dimensional Mirror in the sky, and since he was in love with Sectonia, he gave it to her as a gift; Dark Metaknight corrupted Sectonia from the dimensional mirror and she became evil, obsessed with beauty and power; she eventually became Queen Sectonia, the final boss of the game).

Lastly, when we compare characters, we shouldn't limit ourselves to the actual character, but we should extend to the concept they represent. Dark Metaknight represents the concept of the Mirror World, that's a recurring concept in the lore of the Kirby series, especially in recent games. Dark Samus represents the concept of the evil clones of Samus in general, I think that in a way she's there to represent SA-X from Metroid Fusion as well.

But if we must be precise at any cost, then it must also be said that being a bonus boss doesn't make him any less important. Galacta Knight has always been a bonus boss and nothing more, though he's relevant enough that he got a trophy in Smash 4.
The same point stands for all the playable characters in Kirby Star Allies: HAL put a lot of effort to develop them and they accurately choose them to represent the Kirby series as a whole, game by game, so all of the "Dream Friends" are just as important as each other, and they aren't any less important because they are many.

 

[Captain Shades]

Dark Metaknight would be the representative of the Metroidvania style Kirby titles, a rarity sure, but a style many Kirby fans appreciate.

 

[StormC]

Dark Metaknight would be the representative of the Metroidvania style Kirby titles, a rarity sure, but a style many Kirby fans appreciate.

You mean the grand total of 1?

I don't think Uprising fans were too pleased to have Dark Pit as their "Uprising rep." Why add some half-baked character nobody was asking for?

 

[cybersai]

Dark Pit could have just been Pit's alt, too bad Medusa or whatever will never happen now

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Ohey, we talking non-BanDee potential Kirby newcomers again?

There's only one Dark character I'm interested in.

Spoiler

 

[Captain Shades]

You mean the grand total of 1?

I don't think Uprising fans were too pleased to have Dark Pit as their "Uprising rep." Why add some half-baked character nobody was asking for?

Because they already did it with Dark Pit.

Also he’s been a reoccurring character in modern Kirby titles as he hasn’t missed any of the main line entries since he came back in Triple Deluxe. Now personally I would have gone with Galacta Knight as he’s been reoccurring since Super Star Ultra, one upping Dark Meta Knight by two games in the modern series, but since Meta Knight already has an alt with his colors then Dark Meta Knight can work as the representative of all the Evil Meta Knights that have come into the modern series, including him, Galacta Knight, and now Morpho Knight. He basically birthed the modern Kirby bosses by being the first evil Meta Knight.

Plus he was the main villain of what was arguably the most unique Kirby titles, and was a boss in two of Kirby’s most praised games. He was also a big Star Allies reveal, and if my two character theory is correct, which it might be going by the Geno speculation and other potential characters, then Kirby would definitely get an echo and Meta Knight is ripe for one.

 

[StormC]

Because they already did it with Dark Pit.

Also he’s been a reoccurring character in modern Kirby titles as he hasn’t missed any of the main line entries since he came back in Triple Deluxe. Now personally I would have gone with Galacta Knight as he’s been reoccurring since Super Star Ultra, one upping Dark Meta Knight by two games in the modern series, but since Meta Knight already has an alt with his colors then Dark Meta Knight can work as the representative of all the Evil Meta Knights that have come into the modern series, including him, Galacta Knight, and now Morpho Knight. He basically birthed the modern Kirby bosses by being the first evil Meta Knight.

Plus he was the main villain of what was arguably the most unique Kirby titles, and was a boss in two of Kirby’s most praised games. He was also a big Star Allies reveal, and if my two character theory is correct, which it might be going by the Geno speculation and other potential characters, then Kirby would definitely get an echo and Meta Knight is ripe for one.

In a world where Bandana Dee can't even be counted as a sure thing, I doubt all of this post-Sakurai Kirby history will even get the time of day, honestly.

Which sucks because I still really want Bandana Dee but I have definite doubts about his appearance in this game.

 

[Captain Shades]

In a world where Bandana Dee can't even be counted as a sure thing, I doubt all of this post-Sakurai Kirby history will even get the time of day, honestly.

Which sucks because I still really want Bandana Dee but I have definite doubts about his appearance in this game.

He’ll make it, trust me. Sakurai is slowly introducing new Kirby games, like King Dedede having his final Smash based on the DS remake of Super Star, which practically started the modern Kirby era coming only a year or two apart from Returns. Kirby also has his sword from Returns as a Final Smash still. Meta Knight also has a Galacta Knight color, and Chef Kawasaki looks eerily similar to the Star Allies adaptation.

Bandana Dee is to popular to not be included if this is the fan driven game. I think many fans want more modern Kirby content, so to get him and maybe a Meta Knight Echo, not saying which of the three, then that would bring in a lot of good will from fans.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

The only problem with Dark Metaknight as an echo is that he would look too similar to the regular Metaknight, visually.
He's "Dark", but Metaknight is dark too (unlike Dark Pit and Pit who are light and dark).
Aside that, if Kirby is getting an echo, it's either Dark Metaknight or Galacta Knight (I think Morpho is a bit unlikely because it's too recent and only appeared in 1 game so far, also it's the fourth "Knight" and the concept is starting to get old).

Dark Metaknight would make sense, but it may confuse people who aren't familiar with Kirby because he looks too similar to Metaknight; while Galacta Knight would look forced as an echo of MK, because he uses a different weapon that doesn't really look right with Smash Metaknight's animations IMO. They both have a flaw, but they are the only options.
Without any doubt they both deserve being in Smash as an echo, but I think only one of them will make it in, not both of them (if they will).
Personally I'm indifferent to who should be given the priority, because I think that both of them are valid options.

Gooey does not really work as an echo of Kirby because he's too different from Kirby, the only other echo options for Kirby characters are Elline & Claycia to Adeleine & Ribbon, or (very stretched) Drawcia to Dark Matter Blade, but none of those characters are in Smash (yet) so an echo for them is out of question, unless they are added offcourse.

 

[StormC]

He’ll make it, trust me. Sakurai is slowly introducing new Kirby games, like King Dedede having his final Smash based on the DS remake of Super Star, which practically started the modern Kirby era coming only a year or two apart from Returns. Kirby also has his sword from Returns as a Final Smash still. Meta Knight also has a Galacta Knight color, and Chef Kawasaki looks eerily similar to the Star Allies adaptation.

Bandana Dee is to popular to not be included if this is the fan driven game. I think many fans want more modern Kirby content, so to get him and maybe a Meta Knight Echo, not saying which of the three, then that would bring in a lot of good will from fans.

Chef Kawasaki looks pretty much exactly like his Super Star incarnation in Smash. He doesn't have the star from Star Allies on his hat:

Everything else is the same. Not to mention the showcased Kirby song was from Air Ride. I think the overwhelming popularity of Bandana Dee in Japan is his biggest hope right now. I don't know if I trust Sakurai to add a character that represents the era of Kirby without him... although it would be nice.

 

[Captain Shades]

Chef Kawasaki looks pretty much exactly like his Super Star incarnation in Smash. He doesn't have the star from Star Allies on his hat:

Everything else is the same. Not to mention the showcased Kirby song was from Air Ride. I think the overwhelming popularity of Bandana Dee in Japan is his biggest hope right now. I don't know if I trust Sakurai to add a character that represents the era of Kirby without him... although it would be nice.

He will, to be fair Bandana Dee wasn’t very established going into Wii U like he is now a days, and maybe Sakurai didn’t feel that he should add another Kirby rep after two in the last game as people may call bias.

Also Kirby didn’t have that much going into Wii U to make stages from. Return to Dreamland, while fun was mainly a throwback title, Triple Deluxe was too new, and the rest weren’t well received at the time like Squeak Squad or Mass Attack. Kirby was too gimmicky and unfocused up until the end of the Wii era which marks the beginning of Smash’s development.

Kirby has turned into one of Nintendo’s biggest stars in recent years and many old characters are returning with much praise from Daroach to Dark Meta Knight. Kirby is on the biggest high he’s been since Super Star, so there’s no reason to hold back anymore.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I dislike people using "relevancy" as a reason to dismiss a character for Smash.

Even disbarring special exceptions like the retro characters added each installment, the fact that Ultimate decided to bring back every veteran that was cut despite their time in the spotlight being long past (Also adding Chrom, Dark Samus and King K. Rool) shows that they care about the entirety of Nintendo's history, not just characters from the past couple years.

It gets to the point where I only talk about relevancy to prove a point. For example, Ganondorf is an irrelevant character because his last canonical appearance was Twilight Princess.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I dislike people using "relevancy" as a reason to dismiss a character for Smash.

Even disbarring special exceptions like the retro characters added each installment, the fact that Ultimate decided to bring back every veteran that was cut despite their time in the spotlight being long past (Also adding Chrom, Dark Samus and King K. Rool) shows that they care about the entirety of Nintendo's history, not just characters from the past couple years.

It gets to the point where I only talk about relevancy to prove a point. For example, Ganondorf is an irrelevant character because his last canonical appearance was Twilight Princess.

They can’t use it anymore King K. Rool killed that arguement

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think relevance is a very generic word.

It still makes sense in some cases, though, it depends on how you interpret it.
It can be relevance in popularity, relevance in recent games, historical relevance or lore relevance.

King K Rool may be irrelevant in the recent DK games, but he was very relevant in the first games and he has been for many years, so he may not have recent games relevance, but he has historical relevance for sure.

Characters such as Sheik aren't that relevant at all outside Zelda lore (it references a specific event in a specific game, that's one of the most important events in the series, despite happening only in 1 game - that's where the timeline splits too).

It's just that most people only see recent games and popularity as relevance factors, that's a wrong way to look at it IMO.

Then, there are characters who aren't "relevant" but still make it in Smash, such as Pichu. There may be many factors for characters like those, but often it's because of marketing reasons (I remember Pichu on some school merchandise back when his generation of Pokèmon was current).

 

[Captain Shades]

I dislike people using "relevancy" as a reason to dismiss a character for Smash.

Even disbarring special exceptions like the retro characters added each installment, the fact that Ultimate decided to bring back every veteran that was cut despite their time in the spotlight being long past (Also adding Chrom, Dark Samus and King K. Rool) shows that they care about the entirety of Nintendo's history, not just characters from the past couple years.

It gets to the point where I only talk about relevancy to prove a point. For example, Ganondorf is an irrelevant character because his last canonical appearance was Twilight Princess.

Actually Ganodorf’s last appearance was in Hyrule Warriors, plus both Twilight Princess and Wind Walker have him and got remakes on Wii U. Also Hyrule Warriors, which he’s a major player in, got put on Switch, so Ganondorf is by no means irrelevant.

Chrom is also extremely relevant. He was the first character shown off in Fire Emblem Warriors, and he is consistently showing up in Heroes. Chrom is pretty much a mascot of the franchise at this point, along with Lucina.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Relevance still exists. It is a guideline, not a hard rule. It's still a legitimate argument to be made, but it doesn't mean it will affect every single character. Keep in mind relevance also takes place instead of other factors. Retro and WTF choices are not supposed to be about relevance. Nor are clones specifically(though sometimes that can matter, like with Pichu, as him being relevant around the time made him an easier clone choice instead of Raichu, who hasn't been heavily promoted or is the particular mascot of something in Pokemon, nor has an actual movie starring role itself). Some other characters wouldn't have gotten in if it weren't for it, including Robin. If the game came out a bit later or too early, they'd have missed the window. Lucina on the other hand was already a costume, so that wouldn't have mattered(unlike what made Pichu a realistic clone choice).

King K. Rool being irrelevant didn't matter because of the ballot, a separate factor. His last appearance was the previous Smash game, which all he got was a costume. There's going to be a lot of characters who have factors besides relevance to be added on. If a character is irrelevant, it can still hurt their chances unless another good factor comes up. Geno is in a similar position to K. Rool, being irrelevant, but being hugely popular via the ballot too. The only real difference, besides not being 1st party, is that Geno also has been wanted by Sakurai since Brawl, and it may not have been because of fanpolls. He simply could've played the game, and got interested in him. This is how he actually chose Robin over Chrom, by playing the game first and deciding based upon what made both interesting. (It's also why the comparison to B&K fall flat. They're wanted from Phil and they obviously did well on the ballot. But it doesn't mean they're comparable to Geno, who is in a more unique situation, as we know they're actively wanted by Sakurai. Banjo & Kazooie's desire to be in is not a factor we know of when it comes to Sakurai's opinion at all. So they may be nothing more than a ballot pick with zero factors beyond that. Not Sakurai's own desires, though really, that doesn't make a 3rd party ultimately more likely, it just helps a little at best. His opinion of who should get in only counts if it becomes feasible. It often does not with 3rd parties. So it's a different factor. Another thing is they're not owned by the same company. SE could say no. Microsoft could say yes. Or the other way around. They're in only slightly similar positions, but Sakurai's opinions on it are a completely different factor that can change the whole ball game. For all we know, he only intends to go to MIcrosoft to grab some high profile games for cameos and that's it. He might not care about B&K in the same way we do, so he could walk away without the content, though I honestly think he'll try to get some for the fans. But when it comes to the most likely content, Minecraft, it outweighs B&K severely due to its extreme iconic status, and that's ignoring how easily Microsoft and Nintendo are on-board with actually working together via it. And it only applies to this series as is).

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Actually Ganodorf’s last appearance was in Hyrule Warriors, plus both Twilight Princess and Wind Walker have him and got remakes on Wii U. Also Hyrule Warriors, which he’s a major player in, got put on Switch, so Ganondorf is by no means irrelevant.

Chrom is also extremely relevant. He was the first character shown off in Fire Emblem Warriors, and he is consistently showing up in Heroes. Chrom is pretty much a mascot of the franchise at this point, along with Lucina.

Keyword is "canon". If Ganondorf appearing in Hyrule Warriors renews his relevancy, the same must be applied to Darunia/Ruto/Midna/Zant/Ghirahim/Fi/Majora/Tetra/Marin/Ravio/Yuga.
Which I'm onboard with, it's just hypocritical to dismiss, say, Skull Kid or Midna because they haven't appeared in the latest Zelda game while saying Ganondorf is still relevant.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They're still Zelda titles. Canon doesn't much matter as long as it's a legitimate appearance. As long as it's within the franchise. Ganondorf is significantly relevant in the Zelda series still. Any non-Zelda games, sure, they aren't as big of a deal(Smash included in this case, as it didn't make K. Rool relevant either. He's still irrelevant in his own series by a lack of appearances, spin-off or not).

And yes, all those other Zelda characters are still relevant due to HW. It's not like Nintendo is treating them as irrelevant titles. Now, what is notable is that Sakurai doesn't heavily look at a lot of spin-offs/non-canon works for characters themselves. As well as content. Mario is pretty much the sole exception, and it doesn't even have a real canon, and is more intended to be that they're all their own stories and not connected, just something akin to a screenplay(thus, the term spin-off barely applies, and only on a pure technicality. It has nothing to do with canon in this case. Then again, spin-off never meant non-canon game, it was about being something different from the regular core series' genre. So non-platformers in Mario. The Sonic series doesn't even follow a real pattern for it. All the handheld games are treated as spin-offs even as platformers. Shadow is literally the sequel to Heroes yet is treated as a spin-off simply because it doesn't star Sonic. It's a pretty bad term at times).

A good way to look at HW is that it isn't just a spin-off, it's its own thing entirely. It is basically a fanservice game for tons of Zelda games while having its own OC's. So more or less like Smash actually is, just as a different genre(Smash is a fighting game, HW is a hack and slash).

 

[Captain Shades]

Keyword is "canon". If Ganondorf appearing in Hyrule Warriors renews his relevancy, the same must be applied to Darunia/Ruto/Midna/Zant/Ghirahim/Fi/Majora/Tetra/Marin/Ravio/Yuga.
Which I'm onboard with, it's just hypocritical to dismiss, say, Skull Kid or Midna because they haven't appeared in the latest Zelda game while saying Ganondorf is still relevant.

Are people really using relevancy on Skull Kid? He literally just got a remake at the time of the ballot, is probably the 3rd biggest antagonist of Hyrule Warriors (under Cia and Ganondorf). Majora’s Mask was also DLC in BOTW, so the character is far from dead unlike captain last appearance was in Mario Baseball from 2006 known as K Rool. No hate to K Rool, just saying that many characters have been in worse situations.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Relevancy never mattered in Smash as much as everyone liked to think for so long... look at characters added before and



All of them were "irrelevant" during the time of their addition to Smash Bros..

There is no such thing as an irrelevant character to Sakurai.

 

[Captain Shades]

Relevancy never mattered in Smash as much as everyone liked to think for so long... look at characters added before and



All of them were "irrelevant" during the time of their addition to Smash Bros..

There is no such thing as an irrelevant character to Sakurai.

Okay, to start I would take 3 of them off your list, Dr Mario had games around Melee’s release including Dr. Mario 64 in 2001. R.O.B. was already making a comeback before Brawl as he was in Mario Kart DS and I think he was used in WarioWare. Mega Man was also a relevant character, people just portrayed his situation really poorly, there was obviously the two games 9 and 10 around, and Mega Man had characters in MvC3 and was in the Street Fighter V Tekken crossover. Sure the last was his cruddy box art version, but clearly Capcom didn’t forget the Blue Bomber like many claim.

While I can see your point I do somewhat disagree though, I believe they fit a separate category being the retro/joke characters of each entry. They are from franchises no one remembers, making them shocking with their inclusion in Smash. To give perspective, none of them are like Geno, a character from a big franchise already in Smash that has been left in the past. Plus they are all from one era being the NES, besides G&W who came before, so clearly there’s a trend in the inclusion of these forgotten characters.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Okay, to start I would take 3 of them off your list, Dr Mario had games around Melee’s release including Dr. Mario 64 in 2001. R.O.B. was already making a comeback before Brawl as he was in Mario Kart DS and I think he was used in WarioWare. Mega Man was also a relevant character, people just portrayed his situation really poorly, there was obviously the two games 9 and 10 around, and Mega Man had characters in MvC3 and was in the Street Fighter V Tekken crossover. Sure the last was his cruddy box art version, but clearly Capcom didn’t forget the Blue Bomber like many claim.

While I can see your point I do somewhat disagree though, I believe they fit a separate category being the retro/joke characters of each entry. They are from franchises no one remembers, making them shocking with their inclusion in Smash. To give perspective, none of them are like Geno, a character from a big franchise already in Smash that has been left in the past. Plus they are all from one era being the NES, besides G&W who came before, so clearly there’s a trend in the inclusion of these forgotten characters.

Dr. Mario 64 literally came out 6 months prior to Melee, and the Gamecube launched the same month as Melee''s .. trust me, no one cared about Dr. Mario 64.. I doubt Sakurai threw in Dr. Mario due to his Nintendo 64 game.

Megamans situation is not portrayed poorly Megaman was nowhere near his star status that he was in the 90s.. the few games he received before Smash Wii U which the last one was 4 years prior were under the radar and barley anyone talked about them....this is mostly due to capcoms negligence of the character. Sure Megaman was sort of around but Capcom wasn't marketing him nearly as much as they used to and he was practically a relic. His Smash 4 appearance has aided his resurgence greatly.

The fact that most of those characters are from the NES days is moot because it proves the point that relevancy is none factor to Sakurai. If he cared about relevance we wouldn't have any NES era characters at all. The point is, he dosent care about it.


Also I would be hard pressed to say that a lot of these characters are from franchises no one remember's, maybe you don't because perhaps your too young, but I remember all of them except admittedly Game & Watch who pre dates my gaming years.. I had an NES and owned many of the games they come from as do many other's who play Smash. I've never heard Sakurai say he adds older characters for "shock value" seems more to me that he adds them like any other character for fans of those characters.. again because relevancy isnt as big a deal as the community likes to make it seem.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

I am a firm believer that Sora could make it in without any Disney content, barring maybe the Mickey shaped keychain on his Keyblade. Just make the stage Traverse Town or The World that Never Was, Riku as an AT and keep all songs original. It can be done.

Sora IS Disney content.
Remove the keychain? He appears in world of final fantasy just fine, keychain and all.

Spoiler

Since he is owned by Disney, if he gets in, he gets to keep his keychain and all assorted disney goods. (Though any disney would get in only so far as it would "fit" with the game, as shown in the past they try to maintain content "respectful to the brands". This would be for both Nintendo, Disney, and Square Enix Brands.)

As cool as it would be cool to see sorta in smash, Nintendo would have to deal with a company waaaayy bigger than them, and also one that hasn’t had the greatest rep for working cooperatively with other companies

Bruh, then how do Kingdom hearts exist? Kingdom Hearts is DIsney in Partnership with Square Enix.

Disney and Nintendo already work together plenty of times before, so already this is a moot point. http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Disney

The thing about Kingdom Hearts Crossovers outside the series is that they were limited time offers. King Mickey and Keyblade for Disney infinity was only available at D23 expo https://comicbook.com/2015/08/16/kingdom-hearts-comes-to-disney-infinity-at-d23-expo/. And Sora was free DLC for Final Fantasy World for Playstation only (not PC) for a limited time. It's quite mysterious, but it could be because it took some fiddling and planning to get Sora out there in these games, so these were made into a special events.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Simon's a fun case. He was very irrelevant, but his series wasn't. That has been active for quite a long time.

But people are just forgetting that relevancy is a guideline, no more, no less. The closest thing to a hard rule is "Manga characters will not join the battle" at best, and that may be kind of iffy since it's only in context of 3rd parties, and clearly he doesn't have an issue with referring to non-game stuff within the series. Pokemon Trainer outright being compared to Ash as is. Though Pokemon could be an outlier instead of meaning anything.