Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[cothero]

I found a post on 4chan unironically, given people jumping on the random 4chan posts last week, that sums up my feelings about this situation.

I must warn you that given it’s 4chan, it has words that are offensive so I’ll spoiler it. You’ve been warned.

Spoiler: 4chan post

View attachment 236576

Link, please. Pic is not opening.

 

[ligersandtigons]

i wonder if Terry will have the always faces the opponent during 1v1s mechanic like Ryu and Ken

 

[N3ON]

To go off of what Yezen is saying - I don't have anything against Terry. I've spent very little time playing his games, and Ultimate has already provided me with more than I thought it ever would. So I'm not moaning or anything, but I understand where the argument comes from.

Terry obviously can be unique, and his series are sufficiently noted. But, were Terry more unique, it would help outweigh the fact that KoF/FF aren't that huge. Or, if KoF/FF were bigger, it would help outweigh the fact that Terry, conceptually, isn't the most distinct, perhaps interesting, moveset-wise. It's just that he doesn't really excel in any categories that would otherwise potentially make up for shortcomings. Not that the shortcomings are so pronounced as to make him a ridiculous choice, it's just that when compared to other options among what's left (and there are a lot), it seems like there are characters that could bring more to the table - either in terms of diverse implementation, or drawing a series seen as a bit more illustrious into the fray.

It's not even "shortcomings" at all really, the scope of his series are fine, his potential is fine, they're just unremarkable; it's a lack of a "hook" that some other candidates have. Though I suppose it might seem different in Latin America and/or China, where the series has a larger degree of eminence.

I thought it best to get this out now before public opinion changes in a few days.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Link, please. Pic is not opening.

At least it's not just me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Definitely glad it's Terry Bogard. He'd be my number one choice anyways, I'd take Mai since she's a female fighting game character, but Terry is like by far the most recognizable SNK character ever. And he's just cool as hell.

"Ay C'mon"

 

[Ben Holt]

To go off of what Yezen is saying - I don't have anything against Terry. I've spent very little time playing his games, and Ultimate has already provided me with more than I thought it ever would. So I'm not moaning or anything, but I understand where the argument comes from.

Terry obviously can be unique, and his series are sufficiently noted. But, were Terry more unique, it would help outweigh the fact that KoF/FF aren't that huge. Or, if KoF/FF were bigger, it would help outweigh the fact that Terry, conceptually, isn't the most distinct, perhaps interesting, moveset-wise. It's just that he doesn't really excel in any categories that would otherwise potentially make up for shortcomings. Not that the shortcomings are so pronounced as to make him a ridiculous choice, it's just that when compared to other options among what's left (and there are a lot), it seems like there are characters that could bring more to the table - either in terms of diverse implementation, or drawing a series seen as a bit more illustrious into the fray.

It's not even "shortcomings" at all really, the scope of his series are fine, his potential is fine, they're just unremarkable; it's a lack of a "hook" that some other candidates have. Though I suppose it might seem different in Latin America and/or China, where the series has a larger degree of eminence.

I thought it best to get this out now before public opinion changes in a few days.

Maybe you and I just overthink uniqueness since we're Doom Slayer supporters, and Doom Slayer would be extremely unique.
I nearly **** when Banjo was announced despite him basically being Furry Mario, but that's because I never mentally matured past 5 and I love my 90s mascots.

But in Doom Slayer's favor, if Terry's trailer is a sequel to Kencineroar's, then Doom Slayer could easily take Ridley's.
Some guy in the support thread suggested replacing Mario, Mega Man, and Samus with Bowser, Ganondorf, and Ridley, all being scared of Doom Slayer.

 

[StormC]

Terry is neat in that I never expected him to ever be in Smash before yesterday. So that plot twist helps keep things fresh.

I am hopeful that Sakurai will make him stand out as a fighter, but I'm pretty fine with whatever given that this pass already gave me .

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Gonna give my own ratings as well!

Joker: D - Never cared much for Persona and considering we'll never get a mainline Persona game I think this could've gone to somebody else.
Hero: B - Not a fan of JRPGs but Sakurai did a good job making them interesting, furthermore unlike Cloud, Dragon Quest has a very long history with Nintendo and the Toriyama art style is also a unique touch. Definitely earned the slot.
Banjo Kazooie: S+ - Huge fan of the duo and always happy to see more colorful characters enter the roster. Unique mechanics, meloved Nostalgic franchise, and further solidifies the partnership between Nintendo and Microsoft. An old favorite returning to his buddies at Nintendo, what's not to love?
Terry Bogard: C - Never really known much about him or his company so I'm gonna be neutral for now.


Possible DLC Choices:


Namco Bandai:

Prince of All Cosmos: S+++ - My most wanted character of all time, would be a unique character that would bring so much unique and colorful content to the game. Plus the pass needs another cartoony character like him!

Heihachi Mishima: C - Never been much into Tekken though he could be very cool if Sakurai can add his unique mechanics. Plus if we get Terry he'd be a bit redundant for Fighter's Pass Variety.

Lloyd Irving: C - Never cared much for JRPGs, and while Lloyd definitely has a good shot at a roster spot, three JRPG characters would be way too much for the pass. Aside from his dual-wielding there doesn't seem like a lot he could do to stand out.

Chosen Undead: B+ - never played a Dark Souls game but a character of this type (a sort of western-looking knight) is an archtype we don't really have in Smash, plus the imbued weapons and Flasks could make for an interesting playstyle.

Agumon: B- - Wasn't into Digimon growing up but another colorful character with unique potential could bring some cool ideas to the table.

KOS-MOS: C- - Never really looked much at Xenogears, and not too interested either. Along with more JRPG redundancy, though I do see that she has a unique design compared to most JRPG characters.


Capcom:

Phoenix Wright: A+ - Phoenix would be an extremely funny choice and would probably have one of the most unique playstyles imaginable. Plus he's been exclusive to Nintendo until the mobile ports so he's more than earned his place. He's also my best friend's most wanted character so bonus points there.

Monster Hunter: B- - Monster Hunter could provide some unique ideas, plus with Rathalos already in the game Nintendo sees the positives in Monster Hunter content. Though I have almost no connection to the series so I'm about neutral.

Resident Evil: C- - It has had a good deal of games on Nintendo systems but the characters shine most brightly in their own environment. Aside from my disdain for zombies, I don't feel like they'd bring enough to the table.



Activision Blizzard:

Crash Bandicoot: S+ - One of my most wanted characters despite not growing up with him much, he's one of the last big icons not yet represented in Smash and would bring so much to the table. He's iconic, popular on both sides, would bring in fantastic content, and despite rising again recently he's had a fantastic revival. What's not to love?

Spyro the Dragon: A- - Another worthy candidate, though one that would have to go through his buddy Crash first. I don't have as much of a connection to Spyro but he'd be a very welcome addition, and our third quadruped on the roster.

Tracer: B- - For a short time I was into Overwatch, mainly for the lore and characters (to the day I've never played the game). While she's iconic in the modern day and has some cool gimmicks of her own, I don't feel that she should get a spot over some of the other characters on this list, especially since her history with Nintendo has just started.

Diablo: C - I don't have much of a connection to Diablo so there's not much for me to say.


Bethesda Softworks:

The Last Dragonborn/Dovahkiin: S++ - Been a huge fan of The Elder Scrolls for years, and I think the Dragonborn's shouts could definitely set the character apart from other swordfighters. Furthermore, TES is surprisingly popular in Japan, and the series has had a profound effect on the genre, along with Skyrim being influential in modern gaming. Plus this character can be anything in-game, so lots of weapon and magic options could be integrated into the moveset, making for a very diverse character.

Doom Slayer: C- - FPS games have little to no popularity in Japan and I myself have little to no connection to Doom. Pair that up with competition with one of my most wanted characters and the nonstop almost baseless attention he gets and it results in a lot opinion score for me. Still, I do see that he's had a longer Nintendo history and is an icon in gaming himself, so I will always give credit where credit is due.

Vault Boy: F - Fallout has almost no presence on the Switch aside from a spinoff, and I never cared about the Fallout series myself, so seeing him get in over the other two Bethesda options would be a bit of an insult.


Indie:

Shantae: A - I have little connection to the series myself but I know how much people want her in the game. Furthermore despite her nicheness somewhat she has a long history with Nintendo dating back to the Gameboy days and her ponytail, dancing, and animal transformations could result in an extremely interesting moveset.

Quote: S - Always been a huge fan of Cave Story and it's a game that helped pioneer the genre. Quote has an easy gimmick he could use, unique weapons to choose from, and a fun aesthetic, along with some great music. If Shantae doesn't get chosen, another indie with Legacy like him should. Furthermore he's been ported to Nintendo systems many times with upgrades, even recieving his own modeled 3DS remake!

Frisk: C- - I played through Undertale twice but despite liking some parts of it I'm not the hugest fan of it, and got super burnt out on it during its' heyday. Furthermore Frisk's general playstyle is about pacifism so I can imagine complex dodge mechanics on a small target would be a pain. But nonetheless I will give credit where credit is due, Undertale is influential itself and is popular on both sides of the ocean. I just feel like an indie with more legacy should be the first indie rep.

Reimu: B - 9th grade me would be wetting his pants, but current me sees her as a solid but slightly confusing choice. She'd have some very unique mechanics of her own, and provides a unique aesthetic providing we don't get Nakoruru. While her history with Nintendo is brief she's been very influential in the east, so she's definitely made her mark on gaming.


Microsoft:

Steve: A - I just recently got into Minecraft, and aside from being a really funny choice I believe Steve does deserve to be a welcome member of the roster. In his 10 years of existance he's managed to make worldwide acclaim that still continues to this day, and has been very supportive since the launch of Minecraft Switch. Throw in some cool crafting mechanics and we have a very very unique character in the making!

Master Chief: B- - Would be a very funny pick, but he himself is another icon of the FPS genre, and I think the Sci-fi weapons he could provide would work in his favor, in terms of uniqueness and less of a need for toning down. Also I'd love to see a stage based on Husky Raid.


First Party/Others:

Waluigi: S - An extremely funny character with a lot of personality, there's littly chance for him but my god does he have potential. Plus having him as the last pass slot would be an incredible marketing stunt.

Byleth/Edelgard: F - Would rather not see another modern FE rep, especially a Three Houses shill pick. I realize that the game is very popular and is nowhere near Awakening/Fates levels of Waifuism, but among four heavy hitter third parties, a modern FE rep would be a terrible way to end the pass. Let Zelda have another unique rep instead!

Gen 8 Pokemon: C - I'm a huge fan of Pokemon and one of the few people who was happy with Incineroar (huge fan of Sun and Moon, especially the anime). However, I agree on the general consensus that it is way too early for a rep for Gen 8. And like an FE character this would be a bad way to end after a bunch of great third parties. Lucario had to wait until after Diamond/Pearl, Greninja after X/Y, and Incineroar after Sun/Moon. It's only fair to make a Gen 8 wait until after Sword and Shield.

Civilization rep: S - I know it likely isn't possible due to the characters being based on historical figures, but it does have two main series games and a spinoff on Nintendo systems, and would add another strategy game rep, so it's quite iconic!

Rayman: B - Never played much Rayman but after being stuck as a spirit and trophy I think he deserves his time in the sun. Origins brought him back into the spotlight and he could bring a lot of inspired content to the table. There's a lot they could do with him!

Ryu Hayabusa: C- - Never had much of a connection to Ninja Gaiden aside from the iconic 4-2 theme, so I can't give much of an opinion of him. But I don't think he'd be very exciting for me. Still, Nintendo and Tecmo have a very good relationship so I see that he has a lot going for him!

Geno: B+ - I haven't played Super Mario RPG but I always welcome more Mario reps on board! Geno's got a lot of interesting potential and I know that he'd make a lot of people happy!

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Might contribute to the trends of ranking the current Fighters Pass as it stands: -
: SSS - I was freaking out when I learned Joker would be coming to Smash. I absolutely loved Persona 5 and Joker was easily my dream want for this game, similar to how Cloud was my dream want for Smash 4. Minute he was revealed I was sold on the Fighters Pass. No surprise that Joker's my main character in this game.
: B - I'm familiar with DQ, but I was expecting to be disappointed if it was just plain old Erdrick after hearing so much of him being rumored. There was also a bit of confusion/excitement when I realised that it wasn't only Erdrick, but the main character was the Luminary of DQ11 and he had Erdrick, Solo and Eight as alts. That was pretty impressive, even if I was still worried where Banjo-Kazooie were, but...
: SSS - Once again, freaking out that it finally happened (and sleep-depraved because I wanted to see it happen live at approaching 3AM). It was wonderful to finally see the Bird and Bear duo make their grand return to Nintendo. I was extremely happy to finally see one of my dream wants finally happen despite all the odds against them, but to think that some time by the end of this month, we'll have Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros at long last.

Terry: B - I'm more of a Samurai Shodown guy and would prefer Nakoruru being in Smash thanks to her bringing her hawk Mamahaha, but I have to respect Terry being the flagship mascot for SNK. I'm a bit disappointed that the leak took away the wind out of the hype sails for this announcement, but I think Terry is worthy enough to represent SNK in Smash. Looking forward to seeing how he looks in action, but I'm a bit disappointed about the leak happening.

 

[StormC]

: Love the modern Persona series and Persona 5 is my second favorite game of all time, so kind of a no brainer. Hype is a bit muted though because I only played Persona 5 after the VGA trailer. Still in my top 4 favorite Ultimate reveals and got me to buy the Pass after playing P5. A-
: Only now playing the series with the DQ11 demo, but a lot of respect for the legacy and as a Dragon Ball fan I enjoy the Toriyama character designs. Kinda wish Erdrick was the default though and lack of female alts is disappointing. C
: What else needs to be said? S+
with a hat: Hard to say right now, leaning towards a C right now, much like DQ, it's a legacy I respect but have no personal affection for.

One B level character comparable to would make this pass go from "pretty damn great" to "absolutely fantastic." Not all five characters will appeal to me, but the majority doing so would be aces.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

While I think about it -
If Fatal Fury were to get repped either way, what would be the Series Symbol? I can't exactly think of one off the top of my head outside of Terry's hat.

 

[cmbsfm]

I do wish we got Scorpion or Sub-Zero over Terry. I think MK vs SF would be a huge deal since it’s something that’s never happened before, and it would’ve happened through Smash. In fact, Smash is the only way that would even happen because there’s no chance in hell that we’d get a MK v SF game anyway. SNK is cool I guess, but god damn I definitely think MK getting in would’ve been internet breaking news. Plus Mortal Kombat is a lot more stylistically different from Street Fighter than KoF is anyway, the contrast would be nice.

 

[Nquoid]

Joker: B+
Hero: B+
Banjo & Kazooie: A
Terry Bogard: C+

I don't think my mild disappointment in Terry being in is because he's from King of Fighters/Fatal Fury. I think it's a combination of not having a personal attachment to that franchise and because we were immersed in speculation so intensely without an actual name, I actually grew attachment to Nakoruru and what she could bring to Smash.

Obviously that's not how Sakurai actually picks characters, and Terry just makes so much sense. But the only way I could see myself getting really hyped is if Terry's gimmick is wonderful, or it does turn out to be a 3-1 fighter which would be a fantastic last minute swerve, but I highly doubt that.

So excuse me, I'm going to immerse myself in Terry gameplay videos to get a handle on his style.

 

[StormC]

While I think about it -
If Fatal Fury were to get repped either way, what would be the Series Symbol? I can't exactly think of one off the top of my head outside of Terry's hat.

This fits the bill:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...3/618187627828346922/featured_channel.jpg.png

 

[cothero]

While I think about it -
If Fatal Fury were to get repped either way, what would be the Series Symbol? I can't exactly think of one off the top of my head outside of Terry's hat.

Probably an stylized FF icon, just like SF for Street Fighter.

 

[Ben Holt]

I might as well make my tier list for Pack 5 / Pass 2.
Personal wants, not probability.

SS:
Crash Bandicoot
Doom Slayer

S:
Spyro
Rayman
Master Chief
Kratos (no chance, but hyper than hype)

A+:
Geno
Toad
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Shovel Knight

A:
Dante
Heihachi
Lloyd
Bomberman
Isaac
Dragonborn

A-:
Ryu Hayabusa
Dixie Kong (non-Echo)
Bandana Waddle Dee
Impa
Midna / Wolf Link
Tails
Knuckles
Mega Man X
Zero

B:
Krystal
Bill Rizer
Shantae
Monster Hunter
Leon Kennedy
Crono
Steve
Chosen Undead

C: (Basically Echo Fighters)
Shadow
Proto Man
Zack Fair
Ms. Pac-Man
Jeanne
Coco Bandicoot
Funky Kong
Ninten

D:
Byleth
Frogger
Marco
Chun Li
Sukapon
Takamaru


Edit: For the record, D ≠ bad, just my least desired but still ultimately on my wish list.

 

[StormC]

Probably an stylized FF icon, just like SF for Street Fighter.

Final Fantasy already has that.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Ratings huh? Keep in mind they are personal levels of interest:

Joker: D-: Perplexing. Truly didn't see it coming. Don't own a PS4, not that into JRPGs. Persona doesn't feel as big as previous third parties either bar Bayonetta. Was the early warning sign to not buy into the Fighters Pass for me. I have other Sega characters I'm more interested in.

Hero: C-: Makes sense knowing how big it is in Japan, but I'm not huge on JRPGs to begin with. Eh. I have other Square characters I'd prefer personally.

Banjo: B: A cartoon mascot at last...and it's the much beloved Banjo...sadly whilst I got to play Smash 64, it was at a friends house, and the Gamecube was my first personal Nintendo console so my first Banjo experiences were Nuts and Bolts and Sonic Racing. At least Banjo's been requested for years even if he's one of the few platforming heroes I care about least. Again, I have other Rare characters I'm more interested in.

Terry(if true): C+: I played a tiny bit of Fatal Fury, found it kinda forgettable but I know of Terry...I've never been that into SNK but I guess if Nintendo are using this as mostly a way to strengthen bonds with other companies he makes sense. Kyo and Mai would have been fine too but they'd all rank around C for me. I don't have other SNK characters I'm more interested in I suppose. That's not that great.

Overall persoanlly I'm glad I didn't throw money at the Fighters Pass. I may pick up Banjo later but I'm not even sure on that.

 

[cothero]

Final Fantasy already has that.

Jeez, that's true. Maybe KOF logo then.

 

[ze9]

My tier list would be:

Banjo & Kazooie: dream come true
Hero, Terry, Plant: I didn't know I wanted this
Joker: not my cup of tea but he's fine I guess

 

[Mr.Boo]

When I think of possible newcomers for this dlc I consider 3 things: legacy of franchise, music, and Kirby's possible headwear lol. What about y'all?

Also (these are personal opinions and if you feel differently that's completely fine. I would never hate on someone for what they like, unless it was like killing puppies or something):
C | For sheer surprise, but Sakurai's bias kinda dulls him for me, but whatever Sakurai deserves his pick of course.
D- | I despise this character, mostly due to his moveset. I think he's already terrible due to boring sword moves he shares with a lot of the cast already, and his Command Select would save his boring playstyle if it wasn't so rng focused. And criticals can go jump off a cliff.

A | Here's where my bias comes in. N64 was a big part of my childhood and these two were very much a part of it. Great reveal.

And Terry B- | I recognize SNK's impact and while their IPs wouldn't be my fourth choice for DLC, I like Terry enough as a character. But three, possibly four human reps will kinda make the pass look dull as a whole.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Joker: B+
I never thought I'd see this character in Smash. I'm a fan of SMT and Persona but I never thought of Joker as an actual possibility because of how ridiculous the idea sounds like. My mind was blown when he got revealed and he's fun to play to boot.

Hero: B-
I do have history with this series I appreciate it's inclusion. My only gripe with the character is the RNG, as it is what harmed my enjoyment of an otherwise perfect Dragon Quest representation.

Banjo & Kazooie: C
I played his games but I don't really care about him. I was never that invested in the character and I'd much have preferred Steve or Master Chief instead.

Terry: B
More fighting game characters is always a good thing in my book. Without SNK it's likely we would have never gotten Smash to begin with considering it was a huge inspiration for Sakurai.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I might as well make my tier list for Pack 5 / Pass 2.
Personal wants, not probability.

SS:
Crash Bandicoot
Doom Slayer

S:
Spyro
Rayman
Master Chief
Kratos (no chance, but hyper than hype)

A+:
Geno
Toad
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Shovel Knight

A:
Dante
Heihachi
Lloyd
Bomberman
Isaac
Dragonborn

A-:
Ryu Hayabusa
Dixie Kong (non-Echo)
Bandana Waddle Dee
Impa
Midna / Wolf Link
Tails
Knuckles
Mega Man X
Zero

B:
Krystal
Bill Rizer
Shantae
Monster Hunter
Leon Kennedy
Crono
Steve
Chosen Undead

C: (Basically Echo Fighters)
Shadow
Proto Man
Zack Fair
Ms. Pac-Man
Jeanne
Coco Bandicoot
Funky Kong
Ninten

D:
Byleth
Frogger
Marco
Chun Li
Sukapon
Takamaru


Edit: For the record, D ≠ bad, just my least desired but still ultimately on my wish list.

If they're on my wishlist, they're at least a B-.

A+
1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City Ransom]
5. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]

A
6. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
7. Billy Lee/Jimmy Lee [Double Dragon]
8. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
9. Shantae [Shantae]
10. King Hippo [Punch-Out]

A-
11. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
12. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
13. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
14. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
15. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]

B+
16. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
17. Amaterasu [Okami]
18. Heihachi [Tekken]
19. Terry Bogard [Fatal Fury]
20. Crono [Chrono Trigger]

B
21. Mitsurugi [Soul Calibur]
22. Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
23. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
24. Phoenix Right [Ace Attorney]
25. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]

B-
26. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
27. Zero [Mega Man X]
28. Bomberman [Bomberman]
29. Spring Man/Ribbon Girl [ARMS]
30. Alucard [Castlevania]

 

[Ben Holt]

If they're on my wishlist, they're at least a B-.

A+
1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City Ransom]
5. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]

A
6. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
7. Billy Lee/Jimmy Lee [Double Dragon]
8. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
9. Shantae [Shantae]
10. King Hippo [Punch-Out]

A-
11. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
12. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
13. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
14. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
15. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]

B+
16. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
17. Amaterasu [Okami]
18. Heihachi [Tekken]
19. Terry Bogard [Fatal Fury]
20. Crono [Chrono Trigger]

B
21. Mitsurugi [Soul Calibur]
22. Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
23. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
24. Phoenix Right [Ace Attorney]
25. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]

B-
26. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
27. Zero [Mega Man X]
28. Bomberman [Bomberman]
29. Spring Man/Ribbon Girl [ARMS]
30. Alucard [Castlevania]

I totally forgot Amaterasu, Spring Man, and Alucard. Lol.
And Alucard is one of my favorites. I'll just put my list elsewhere and update it periodically.
But beyond that, I like your list. Really good retro selection.
I considered Q*bert and Jason/Sophia, but I thought that was a bit too much of a stretch.

 

[StormC]

If they're on my wishlist, they're at least a B-.

This is essentially my mentality as well, I consider C "average" so... I don't really care about them that much, lol.

A+
Dr. Eggman

A
Dixie Kong
Gruntilda

A-
Bomberman

B+
Bandana Dee
Crash Bandicoot
Leon Kennedy
Dante
Ganon
Velvet Crowe

B
Kamek
Zero
Sora
Isaac

B-
Lip
Ryu Hayabusa
Dark Matter

...think that's it. No S tiers left, at least for characters that are remotely on the table.

 

[Ben Holt]

I guess I'm the weirdo.
C is not my average as in "don't care".
It's my "Characters I want, but can live without".
D is my "Slightly want."
Anything lower is my indifferent. Terry would have been there for me.

 

[Calamitas]

Oh, if we're doing satisfaction ratings for the Fighter's Pass, I guess I'll stop lurking for a moment and throw out my own take. I should point out though that even though I'm old enough to have been around since roughly the N64 era, I only really got into gaming during the middle of the Wii era, so that's obviously gonna affect my judgment. Plus, I don't really venture outside of first or second party Nintendo games that much.

Joker: F
This guy. . . is easily my least favourite newcomer of everything that Ultimate has brought to the table, base game or DLC. I have no connection to Persona, and his appearance in Smash has not got me that interested, either. Maybe if the game came to Switch, I might consider checking it out, but some Warriors spin-off is just flat-out not worth my time.

Hero: D
No past with Dragon Quest, and not a big fan of Akira Toriyama's character designs. Gameplay-wise, the character looks rather fun, but the heavy focus on RNG is just a huge turn-off.

Banjo: C
. . .I mean, at this point it should be obvious what I'm gonna say about my history with that series. I will say though that I like their design as a fighter in Smash, even if I don't like the entire "huge googly eyes on everything" design of their series.

SNK character: ???
I'm not sure yet. I know next to nothing about SNK, and would still by far prefer a first-party character over anyone they have to offer. But we still don't know who exactly it even is, and I do like that they're gonna throw speculation for a loop, and make people dial their expectations back.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I don't understand this letter grade system you guys are using.

I'll just list off the characters I want in ascending order of desire.

Third party:
5. Spyro the Dragon
Love this little guy and the music and world from his games. He's such a good boy.
4. Master Chief
I played a lot of Halo 2 in high school, and while I was old enough to play Doom when it came out, it didn't stick with me the way Halo did. Master Chief is one of the last remaining "competitor's icon" characters missing from Smash. If they can get Crash and Master Chief in this game somehow then all systems will truly be represented regardless of company.
3. Dr. Eggman
I know people want Tails or Shadow but I think Eggman deserves the spot over them any day of the week. Eggman is the most important character in the Sonic games apart from Sonic himself. And I'm not trying to hear any nonsense about how he'd be "Bowser Jr. but large". There are decades of material to work with from all his boss appearances across the original trilogy and the adventure games.
2. Ganbare Goemon
One of the biggest third party underdogs for me as well as a supremely underrated character from Konami's back catalogue, I'm surprised Goemon isn't their de-facto mascot. Mystical Ninja/Goemon has been a mainstay of Nintendo systems as far back as the NES, all the way up to N64. He's a cool and outlandish parody of Japanese history and mythology and would be a great retro pick.
1. Earthworm Jim
My all time biggest desire for a character in Smash. Jim was one of the coolest characters of my adolescence and I really think he has the potential to be an awesome character in this game. With the upcoming comeback on the Intellivision Amico and his recent comic book kickstarter that made nearly a million dollars the future is looking bright for the worm after years of being buried in the dirt. Now is the time for him to make his appearance in this game.

First party:
3. Mona (Warioware)
I just really dig this chick and how cheerful and silly she is. I actually drew up a partial moveset for her that would take inspiration from her Warioware microgames. Find it here, maybe I'll add to it in the future. https://imgur.com/a/EEaCV
2. F-Type (Stunt Race FX)
F-Type, for people who weren't around in 1994, is a red Formula-style racing car with big goofy eyeballs. There isn't really much to say about him, I think his game was one of the defining ones of my childhood as I begged people to get me Stunt Race FX when I was a kid and was ecstatic when I finally got it for my birthday. I really pine for the days when Smash would give a chance to obscure and wonderfully fun characters like these instead of just focusing on what's popular or relevant.
1. Lip (Panel de Pon)
And so we come to the queen of the underdogs. Lip is a peculiar one. She's a character who never made any appearance in the west, whose western fans only found out about her long after the fact, and who probably wouldn't have given her the time of day if her game had come out without any localizaton changes in the 90s. Lip is the protagonist of Nintendo's puzzle game Panel de Pon, released in North America as Tetris Attack where all the characters were replaced with characters from Yoshi's Island. While back in 1995 a western market didn't exist for a game with cutesy anime girl protagonists, gaming has expanded to the point where there is certainly an audience for it now. Unfortunately Lip has been denied the fame and glory given to her Intelligent Systems siblings, the cast of Fire Emblem, whose game was only put on the map in the west due to Melee in the first place. It's high time for Lip to claim her spot in Smash that has been her birthright since SSBM. Playing to her lore as well as the gameplay of Panel de Pon, she could be a very unique magic user character whose gameplay revolves around creating panel stacks on the stage and basically playing her own puzzle game to activate spells. It would make a lot of sense for her to be the first true puzzle game protagonist that isn't Dr. Mario.

Report card for fighter's pass:
Joker: F-
Hero: F-
Banjo: B
SNK character: D- if it's Terry, B+ if it's Metal Slug.
Ryu Hayabusa: D-

I'm really not satisfied with the characters so far. Joker and Hero are utterly banal and Banjo sticks out like a sore thumb as the only character with overt personality in his design. I was expecting more characters like Banjo and was disappointed when the Nintendo representative said that "Joker is a prime example of the characters we're adding to the fighters' pass". What, boring personality-less anime humans with realistic proportions? With most of these announcements being so lackluster I'm just glad I didn't buy the fighters' pass early, and if future developments keep up with this trend I'll just skip the DLC entirely. Smash Ultimate has already been kind of a wash for me.

 

[Deleted member]

While I think about it -
If Fatal Fury were to get repped either way, what would be the Series Symbol? I can't exactly think of one off the top of my head outside of Terry's hat.

A Star or Stylized Star. It’s in the logos for Real Bout Fatal Fury, and Garou Mark of Wolves, and on Terry’s iconic vest.

I was gonna post an image, but the site’s servers are taking a ****.

To go off of what Yezen is saying - I don't have anything against Terry. I've spent very little time playing his games, and Ultimate has already provided me with more than I thought it ever would. So I'm not moaning or anything, but I understand where the argument comes from.

Terry obviously can be unique, and his series are sufficiently noted. But, were Terry more unique, it would help outweigh the fact that KoF/FF aren't that huge. Or, if KoF/FF were bigger, it would help outweigh the fact that Terry, conceptually, isn't the most distinct, perhaps interesting, moveset-wise. It's just that he doesn't really excel in any categories that would otherwise potentially make up for shortcomings. Not that the shortcomings are so pronounced as to make him a ridiculous choice, it's just that when compared to other options among what's left (and there are a lot), it seems like there are characters that could bring more to the table - either in terms of diverse implementation, or drawing a series seen as a bit more illustrious into the fray.

It's not even "shortcomings" at all really, the scope of his series are fine, his potential is fine, they're just unremarkable; it's a lack of a "hook" that some other candidates have. Though I suppose it might seem different in Latin America and/or China, where the series has a larger degree of eminence.

I thought it best to get this out now before public opinion changes in a few days.

I understand the sentiment in the sense that CONTRASTED with say Doomguy for example, Terry feels comparatively unremarkable. And compared to the likes of say Mai or Nakoruru who are more than just your typical protagonist and also from SNK, he comes off as boring. But at the same time, I feel the complaints against Terry coming from many people are just a way of saying “I’m disappointed cause it’s not a character I wanted at all” without really openly saying that.

Judged on his own merits, Terry is and always has been a cool dude with a lot of charm and personality. Saying he’s boring cause he’s fairly standard is like saying Captain Falcon is boring, when the appeal of the two character’s is fairly similar, their personalities and their quotable catch phrases. I don’t feel the comparisons to Ryu and Ken are exactly fair, as not only do they play nothing alike, but also, SNK made their foray into fighting games by saying “hey, fighting games can have stories too” and that’s what they initially stood out for. And thus they crafted a cast of fairly normal people, with very distinct and likable personalities fans grew to know and love. I mean, compare them to the Street Fighter cast who are just cultural stereotypes and it’s night and day. SNK fighters have WHO they are imbedded into their attack animations and voice lines. Every action they do is oozing with flair and uniqueness. Ryu and Ken are boring characters, because Ryu and Ken are boring PEOPLE. Terry has a lot more charm going for him, and once people see that he’s gonna win many over.

And I do disagree that FF/KoF aren’t that huge, as the impact the games and SNK have had in gaming is significant enough to earn him a spot. I’ll add that I personally feel Mai woulda been a better pick as her cult status extends well-beyond just SNK, but if you say “series protagonists only” then Terry is the logical and a fine pick.

Much more so deserving than the likes of Heihachi, Crash, Rayman, Tracer, Steve, Waluigi, Geno, Agumon, Lloyd, KOS-MOS, and a bunch others that I’m sure many of the people sour on Terry would have preferred. Terry and SNK both have a legacy in gaming, and are significant to the industry.

Especially in Asia, where SNK in general never stopped being beloved. Most SNK crossover appearances happen in Asia-exclusive games, and hell, just last month a Japan-exclusive SamSho MMORPG came out and was being advertised all over Akihabara.

When it comes to fighting games, you have Capcom, and then you have SNK. And SNK is responsible for innovating and pushing the genre forward as much as they could, most of the genre staples today are thanks to SNK, and a large number of Smash mechanics, started in SNK fighting games. I’m sure many fighting game fans and arcade fans around the world will lose their minds as soon as they see Terry in Smash.

I think people should be open to what the character is gonna offer. Smash is also a good opportunity to take a dive more deeply into game or franchises you might have not been too familiar with in the first place. And like I said, it coulda been way worse. People should be glad it’s two gaming icons in the form of Terry and Hayabusa, and not another Corrin to close off the DLC.

 

[Wunderwaft]

IAmShifty made a response to all the SNK leaks. He's doubling down on Ryu Hayabusa being part of the fighters pass, claiming his sources didn't know about SNK but they're confident about Ryu Hayabusa being part of the fighters pass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWP1fHUK0kA

 

[DarthEnderX]

I guess I'm the weirdo.
C is not my average as in "don't care".
It's my "Characters I want, but can live without".
D is my "Slightly want."
Anything lower is my indifferent. Terry would have been there for me.

C. Is my "don't care".
D and below is my "I don't want this character in Smash, taking a slot from a better character."

 

[Ornl]

A Star or Stylized Star. It’s in the logos for Real Bout Fatal Fury, and Garou Mark of Wolves, and on Terry’s iconic vest.

Sabi "says" the fourth Fighter is Terry. Sabi said that the image of a bird on a roof was a clue for the fourth Fighter. But both have nothing in common... except the star.

 

[DMTN]

C- | Persona is the most outlandish franchise in Smash. So why did he end up with the dullest moveset of all the newcomers? The presentation is absolutely fantastic though. I love all the little details and care put in the pack.

C | He's okay. I like to mess around with the spell menu in lobby's. But I would never play this character seriously. My biggest issue with this pack is the music and I know many share this sentiment.

S | They're not out yet, so I can't accurately grade them, but I can't imagine I will dislike them. A collaboration between Nintendo, Sakurai, Microsoft, Rare and Grant Kirkhope is something I never dreamed of. It's a legendary return.

Terry Bogard: A | Like Banjo, I need to play him first. I'm excited though. The 4th fighter was always going to receive hate. Not only does Terry snipe the second-to-last slot away, he also had the monumental task of succeeding Banjo. It's also comforting to know that Sakurai still cares about smaller franchises from the past.

 

[SKX31]

My satisfaction ratings (having bought the entire Fighters' Pass the moment Joker came out):

: B+. Familiar with him from when P5 released, but still caught me off guard. Still welcomed him - even if I have had loads of trouble playing against people maining him. Have had more trouble against his mains than vs. Hero's. The life of a Cloud main I suppose. Still, enormous plus points for the general style and small flourishes that Sakurai managed to include. Like his victory screens.

: D at reveal, turned into A post-release: When the four were revealed, I was reacting with a massive "Eh.". But then Hero released, with all the RNG he carries. Thing is, I've been through much, much worse RNG. I'm gonna go on a rant - it illustrates why I didn't react to Hero's RNG the way most did.

Spoiler: Hero and Dota 2's Phantom Assassin, why I didn't mind Hero's RNG

I know it's far from a perfect comparision, but Dota 2 has several heroes who rely on RNG to an even bigger degree than Hero ever does. One Dota 2 Hero - Phantom Assassin - has:

1. An Ultimate that's basically Hero's crits, but 450 % damage when fully upgraded and 15 % chance on every autoattack. A late game PA with lots of damage items will hurt. Even oneshot enemies if she's far enough ahead.

2. Her first ability is a thrown dagger that slows her target and can also crit - its damage scales with PA's - when PA gets her Ultimate (she can upgrade this to three daggers at the same time late game).

3. Her second ability is her jumping onto a target, gaining more attack speed for a short time (thus practically ensuing crits) when jumping on enemies. She can also jump to allies to escape.

4, Her third ability is, again when fully upgraded, 50 % evasion on enemy autoattacks and PA has an option to upgrade the evasion to 75 %. Clicking on said ability hides herself from her enemies. When the enemies are not near her that is.

All of these abilities have low or no cooldown (the crits). If you're facing off against a PA you will need items that shut down the evasion, help disengage from her and / or magic her down. Or she'll murder potentially everyone with crits much faster than Hero ever could. Sure, Phantom Assasin doesn't have magic or a command selection menu. But could you imagine if Hero's crits did 450 % his damage instead of just double damage?

When it comes to magic, there are lots of super heavyhitting spells in Dota 2. To the point they're practically "delete" buttons unless one has magic immunity or some way to evade them.

That's the baggage I come with. That's why I didn't mind Hero's RNG. And when I played against - and experimented with - him I did notice that Hero seemed to be balanced around being a super-heavy hitter. The RNG accentuates this. Also, from my very subjective experience Hero didn't seem too broken. When one turns the brain off (items on, or FFAs) he can be superfun. The only problems I have is with some spells (hey Magic Burst) and the language thing. Also, Hero helped introduce me to DQ, so that's a major plus.

: B+/A-: While I played both Kazooie and Tooie as a kid, it's been so long since I was emotionally invested in B-K. Those two really needed that shot in the arm though after spending the better part of 17 years in the doldrums. I do believe that the doldrum years were not out of malice from Microsoft's part, rather uncertainty what to do with B-K and a PR catastrophe. Still, welcome back.

SNK rep: C / B: While I've become aware of how big the company is in certain regions recently, I'm rather neutral on SNK's characters personally. Still, if it expands on Smash and introduces more people into Smash and Nintendo, why not? SNK could also benefit greatly from a rep - I mean, it would help mark their complete turnaround. Almost bankrupt 5 years ago, probably in Smash now. The power of China's love for their games I suppose.

 

[kirbsmash]

Hey, I have a question for anybody who played KOF, any hopes for Terry's moves? (if he's in)

 

[ZelDan]

Joker = Meh
Hero = Meh
Banjo & Kazooie = Meh
Terry Bogard = Meh

The fighter's pass hasn't exactly been thrilling for me. I don't hate any of the characters but none of them excite me either.

If Ryu does end up being the last DLC character (which I'm not sold on yet), that'd just be another "meh" for me.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

All I want is Layton
I don't have any request other than Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa for this Fighters Pass
I am really hoping we get a second Fighters Pass...

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I have a question for anybody who played KOF, any hopes for Terry's moves? (if he's in)

I just hope Buster Wolf isn’t his Final Smash, but a two part Side Smash like Link’s instead.

Same for Power Geyser USmash. And Power Stream DSmash(?)

Also, Power Wave is ground only, so he’ll probably have his Nspec or Dspec be both Power Wave and Power Dunk when he’s in the air. Power Dunk will probably spike too.

 

[Untouch]

Looking over the 4chan "leak", they mention that Terry will be fighting Incineroar, not Ken. This seems like another red flag to me, Ken makes perfect sense as a followup but there's no connection to Incineroar at all.
I think this is going to be the thing that debunks it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Looking over the 4chan "leak", they mention that Terry will be fighting Incineroar, not Ken. This seems like another red flag to me, Ken makes perfect sense as a followup but there's no connection to Incineroar at all.
I think this is going to be the thing that debunks it.

Incineroar beat Ken in the trailer. If it was a continuation, Terry would be facing Incineroar.