Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PacificFun]

I am okay with this conclusion

Dr. Mario and Inciny have pretty terrifying backthrows as well.

 

[Polan]

lyn would have probably gotten in smash if the timelines had aligned in her favor. alas, they did not.

Ngl, sometimes (emphasis on the sometimes) I wish we lived in a timeline where Awakening was a flop, Fire Emblem bit the dust and then emerged an Advance Wars reboot. I say this because I don't think the two seires could coincide. I vastly prefer the peppy aesthetic and modern setting of the "original" Advance Wars over basically any Fire Emblem.

in that timeline, IS would have become part of the legion of dead developers. so you get nothing but dust and disappointment.

 

[Spongeboob]

Spoiler: Rambling about the FEbros

Personally, I wouldn't remove any of the Fire Emblem characters. I would, however, go back to square one with Ike and Byleth's movesets. Chrom and Lucina, being clones, don't really take up a lot of space and development time. I think I would've said to cut Roy if Ultimate didn't make him fun to use.
If I were forced to cut some of them, however, Ike would be at the top of my list because I think his moveset's kind of bland and can potentially gatekeep other characters that swing a giant weapon around. However, I'd rather give him different tools to help him be more interesting (such as replacing his counter with... something else) rather than flat out cut him especially since he's one of the most popular FEbros. Maybe I'd cut Corrin too, but his/her moveset isn't bland, but rather quite interesting?
I haven't played Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn, so I probably don't have as much uh... what's the word? experience with Ike as someone who has played those two games. Anyways, that's my take. Also, I'm fine with more Fire Emblem characters.

|Unpopular Opinion, but I think a Modern Military Fire Emblem would be amazing. And could still be more unique considering Magic and the More Character Based Nature of FE.

I'd be cool with this as long as it still felt like a Fire Emblem game. I think they should keep the fantasy setting, though.

Hot take; thinking that characters need to "deserve" to be in Smash is a joke of an argument meant to stroke the user's own ego over one factor over another. Like constantly complaining about third party characters due to being irrelevant to Nintendo, when Smash has been evolving specifically to be more welcoming to such characters thanks in part to their contributions to the video game medium as a whole.

That's not a hot take though?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Deserving is extremely subjective.

It is, but I have better taste than Sakurai.

Hot take; thinking that characters need to "deserve" to be in Smash is a joke of an argument

Nobody said they "need" to. Clearly they don't, which is why we already have several undeserving character.

But they SHOULD be deserving. And it would be a better game if everyone was.

 

[Polan]

sakurai more like suck-rai amiright. i could make better picks blindfolded.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really should work on those Agumon recolors. Maybe make more than 8 in general at this point(I do them in 8's, but). Black Shadow's another one to look at, especially as he'd make a fun echo for Ganondorf(using his Brawl/4 moveset anyway).

I've seen some really damn good recolors. I'm just not great at 'em outside of sprites, heh. XD

 

[DarthEnderX]

sakurai more like suck-rai amiright. i could make better picks blindfolded.

Eh, he's like 90% on point.

But my picks are maximum.

 

[Phoenixio]

Lyn would have been nice at the time, yes. And really, if it wasn't for Lucina and Chrom rubbing it in with the clone gimmick, from which Roy had just started getting away from, I think there wouldn't be as much rage against FE or sword users. Lyn would definitely be quite unique; Swordmasters in FE have always been some of the coolest units.

 

[I.D.]

I wonder if one of the mainline Fire Emblem games will get as creative as some of the Worlds in Fire Emblem Heroes. Like imagine people starting to go all grim because it's another Fire Emblem character revealed for Smash, only for them to look really confused when that character begins fighting in a big frickin' Mecha, something normally very unrelated to Fire Emblem.

People will still (rightfully) complain why they are getting a 9th FE character instead of a character from any of Nintendo's games featuring mechs

 

[Spongeboob]

On the offshoot we do get someone(s) who does not originate from a video game (and isn't from a VG franchise or some dolt named Strider Hiryu), who would y'all want it to be? I was thinking someone like Scrooge McDuck or MvC Wolverine.

I'm not saying that we should get non-gaming characters in Smash or that it's ever gonna happen; I'm just bored and wanted to throw a subject I don't see very often (because it's the only actual rule for Smash characters).

 

[Cosmic77]

To be honest, it would hurt even more if we started getting FE characters that took pages from the themes of other Nintendo games.

Imagine getting a FE character wearing a spacesuit with a blaster, or one with clothing reminiscent of Greek mythology.

 

[Speed Weed]

On the offshoot we do get someone(s) who does not originate from a video game (and isn't from a VG franchise or some dolt named Strider Hiryu), who would y'all want it to be? I was thinking someone like Scrooge McDuck or MvC Wolverine.

I'm not saying that we should get non-gaming characters in Smash or that it's ever gonna happen; I'm just bored and wanted to throw a subject I don't see very often (because it's the only actual rule for Smash characters).

Tony Hawk is the objectively superior choice

 

[Evil Trapezium]

On the offshoot we do get someone(s) who does not originate from a video game (and isn't from a VG franchise or some dolt named Strider Hiryu), who would y'all want it to be? I was thinking someone like Scrooge McDuck or MvC Wolverine.

I'm not saying that we should get non-gaming characters in Smash or that it's ever gonna happen; I'm just bored and wanted to throw a subject I don't see very often (because it's the only actual rule for Smash characters).

Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo


Or Kintaro from Golden Boy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ngl, sometimes (emphasis on the sometimes) I wish we lived in a timeline where Awakening was a flop, Fire Emblem bit the dust and then emerged an Advance Wars reboot. I say this because I don't think the two seires could coincide. I vastly prefer the peppy aesthetic and modern setting of the "original" Advance Wars over basically any Fire Emblem.

Advance Wars was already dead then so that wouldn't happen regardless if Awakening saved it's own franchise or not lmao

Ganondorf: Objection!

Ah, but the criteria was yeeting specifically, Ganon has piss poor throws last I checked in terms of kill power.



Also I think it's safe to say Lyn just had bad luck, Sakurai wanted a heavy swordie and ended up getting Ike who fit the bill perfectly

 

[---]

Ngl, sometimes (emphasis on the sometimes) I wish we lived in a timeline where Awakening was a flop, Fire Emblem bit the dust and then emerged an Advance Wars reboot. I say this because I don't think the two seires could coincide. I vastly prefer the peppy aesthetic and modern setting of the "original" Advance Wars over basically any Fire Emblem.

Would recommend Valkyria Chronicles. It got me through the drought between FE11 and FE13.

People will still (rightfully) complain why they are getting a 9th FE character instead of a character from any of Nintendo's games featuring mechs

Bring back Metal Slader Glory already! lol

In all seriousness though, I'm still kind of bummed Hal Labs doesn't do anything with their back catalog aside from Kirby. Could we at least get a Lolo/Eggerland spirit?

 

[Mamboo07]

On the offshoot we do get someone(s) who does not originate from a video game (and isn't from a VG franchise or some dolt named Strider Hiryu), who would y'all want it to be? I was thinking someone like Scrooge McDuck or MvC Wolverine.

I'm not saying that we should get non-gaming characters in Smash or that it's ever gonna happen; I'm just bored and wanted to throw a subject I don't see very often (because it's the only actual rule for Smash characters).

Godzilla! He would be pretty cool to see in Smash, imagine him fighting Mario and other Nintendo characters.
(If not, I would go with Lincoln from The Loud House... don't ask why but it would be kinda funny and unexpected.)

 

[Spongeboob]

Does this describe a good chunk of users here?
This meme means something, right?

 

[osby]

View attachment 294541
Does this describe a good chunk of users here?
This meme means something, right?

Both girls should represent the users in this thread because neither people who like or dislike Fire Emblem ever shut up about it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I said Hero, not Luminary.
There are four Heroes, Eleven, Erdrick, Solo, and Eight.
Erdrick, the most iconic Hero, is definitely at least as iconic as Mega Man and even on par with Cloud as a mascot.
Four Heroes represents Dragon Quest as a whole, and to even imply that Dragon Quest is a niche franchise outside of Japan is ludicrous.
View attachment 294522
To put that into perspective, the next three franchises that have sold LESS than Dragon Quest are Tomb Raider, Halo, and Just Dance!

Even if it's super ****in' duper popular in Japan, it's still a juggernaut worldwide.
Dragon Quest is absolutely not a niche franchise.

You’re conflating the popularity of the franchise with the popularity of the individual characters which is not the same thing, as if I ever implied that Dragon Quest the series is niche or obscure. Mega Man isn’t a huge deal as a character because any game in his franchise has particularly sold well, but because of his recognisably distinct presence throughout the whole series as a consistent face. He made an impact because he specifically is a design and character brand that people recognises. He has that character impact that all the heroes in Dragon Quest lacks. Dragon Quest is bigger than Mega Man as a franchise, but none of the protagonists are as popular as Mega Man the character. And saying that Erdrick is as big as Cloud, a character that made a huge cultural impact to the point of codifying the stereoype of the spiky-haired JRPG protagonist with a big sword, is definitely not correct.

Again,the popularity of the franchise =/= popularity of the individual characters.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

View attachment 294541
Does this describe a good chunk of users here?
This meme means something, right?

Alright I'm going to be blunt about this. Fire Emblem should have died.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Man that 8 Bit Mario thing wasn't what I expected to see first thing in the morning.

Lmao at Delzethin being seen as a good one, you know, the guy who threw a fit about Incineroar saying he makes no sense at all and claiming that multiple icons in gaming history just have very loud fans while saying Geno's an icon in gaming history

I mean, he does have a point when he says not to expect the roster to be all Blockbusters. Some Icons are inevitably going to be left out. It's unfourtunate, but true. Especially considering that Min Min probably means that there's more likely going to be more First Parties this time around.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean, he does have a point when he says not to expect the roster to be all Blockbusters. Some Icons are inevitably going to be left out. It's unfourtunate, but true. Especially considering that Min Min probably means that there's more likely going to be more First Parties this time around.

I am very certain we are going to get at least one more first-party character in this pass that won’t be promotional, similar to .

 

[JOJONumber691]

I am very certain we are going to get at least one more first-party character in this pass that won’t be promotional, similar to .

Same here. I'm personally betting on Euden being the next First Party to join the Roster, but there are definitely other options, Like Waddle Dee, Toadette, Itsuki, or the Octolings for example.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Same here. I'm personally betting on Euden being the next First Party to join the Roster, but there are definitely other options, Like Waddle Dee, Toadette, Itsuki, or the Octolings for example.

There are absolutely still a bunch of viable Nintendo characters that people shouldn’t dismiss, lest they get blind-sighted just like with ARMS.

 

[JOJONumber691]

There are absolutely still a bunch of viable Nintendo characters that people shouldn’t dismiss, lest they get blind-sighted just like with ARMS.

E X A C T L Y !

 

[Munchi]

There are absolutely still a bunch of viable Nintendo characters that people shouldn’t dismiss, lest they get blind-sighted just like with ARMS.

Right, people often think that there are only a few possible Nintendo characters.

 

[Commander_Alph]

There's still major characters missing.

• Dark Meta Knight
• Yin Yarn
• Taranza
• President Haltmann
• Star Dream
• Hyness
• Void Termina

Just to name a few.

Oh, you mean just slapping bosses and 3 different forms of Dark Matter that isn't technically connected to BWD? Yeah, I can't see it. So far all of the spirits have relations to the character whether it is having a bond together (Joker with the Phantom Thieves and the Velvet Room attendant/Terry and his teammate as well as those who encounter him face to face in the tournament, this also applied to Min Min) or generic weak enemies that you encounter (Minecraft mobs and the monsters in DQ). I only can see BWD bring the generic enemies as a spirit rather than bosses that isn't even about him, other than Hyness and Void Termina.

 

[7NATOR]

I think Min-Min was the First great step for New First Party Characters

If you were a Nintendo Fan, but not a Fire Emblem Fan, you were kind of left out. Now that Min-Min is in, It can be expanded. However we still haven't seen other Represented 1st Party Franchises (that have characters) get another one through DLC that's not Fire Emblem. Hopefully that can happen. Maybe people can be more excited for First Party characters If there's more variety in the types of choices

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm still finding myself skeptical about certain first party picks outside ones where the timing didn't originally line up (Gen 8 Pokémon, Rex/Pyra, Age of Calamity fighter). Even as someone who'd love Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, or an Advance Wars character, its hard to escape a sense that if such were really planned for Smash, they likely would have been in the base game. Granted we have no way of knowing about all potential characters might have been planned but couldn't make it in thanks to time or that things have changed in the past two years, but getting a Nintendo rep outside that newer title paradigm would be a real surprise to me.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

I actually think a new Gen 8 Pokémon rep would be better suited as an individual release instead of part of the pass, because it’ll give them a opportunity to add more PokeBall summons from the 8th Generation. We’d still get a stage and music, but I think they should take it beyond that, at least if we get Cinderace or Toxtricity

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, he does have a point when he says not to expect the roster to be all Blockbusters. Some Icons are inevitably going to be left out. It's unfourtunate, but true. Especially considering that Min Min probably means that there's more likely going to be more First Parties this time around.

And this means what exactly about my post, which was Del claiming iconic, industry changing characters had nothing but loud fans going for them while calling a character who's only remembered because of a vocal fanbaseba gaming icon and how he's whined how it doesn't make sense as to why Sakurai picked a character Del didn't like instead of one from the same franchise he did like?

 

[JOJONumber691]

And this means what exactly about my post, which was Del claiming iconic, industry changing characters had nothing but loud fans going for them while calling a character who's only remembered because of a vocal fanbaseba gaming icon and how he's whined how it doesn't make sense as to why Sakurai picked a character Del didn't like instead of one from the same franchise he did like?

He was confused, since Incineroar is kinda a paradox when you truly think about it.

 

[7NATOR]

So I got to ask

When it Comes to Dante, if he does get in, What will happen to Vergil as far as Smash is Concerned

I don't Expect Vergil to be Playable along Dante in this game, unless perhaps they may have had extra time to make Vergil (If they base it of DMC3, Vergil could re-use Dante's Model, and 2 of his 3 Weapons share very Similar Movesets to Dante), but do you think he'd Start being Very Requested Character? Do you think he'd be added next Game?

-DMC3 is Perhaps the most Iconic game in the Series (we'll see how history shapes around DMC5), and Vergil is a big part of the reason why it's so Iconic.
-He's also an Important Part of DMC5, the Most Relevant game in the Series, and the Best one along with DMC3
-He's Very Popular, and used to Sell Special Editions of Games (DMC3, DMC4, DMC5).
-He's like Shadow the Hedgehog if he was never controversial
-He uses a Katana, and we don't have any characters currently that do
-Sakurai loves his Rival Characters. Meta Knight, Dark Pit, Dark Smaus, Wolf, Iori (Well he's not playable, but still), etc

If you also notice, The More Precense Vergil has in the game, the Better the Game is considered to be

-DMC3, DMC5 Have Large Vergil Precense, and are considered the best game in the Series
-DMC1 Has Vergil, albeit in a Corrupted form in Nelo. Still considered good, but not as much as 3 or 5
-DMC4 has Vergil, but he's not involved in Plot and only in Special Edition. DMC4 is Considered Very good, yet controversial because of the half finished nature
-DMC2 lacks Vergil, and is considered the worst Game
-DMC Reboot Features Reboot Vergil, who's Considered an Heavy Downgrade from the Original, which is how people feel about this Reboot
-UMVC3 has Vergil and is considered Amazing. MVCI doesn't and it's not considered Good (except for the gameplay which is Spectacular)

 

[Deleted member]

I actually think a new Gen 8 Pokémon rep would be better suited as an individual release instead of part of the pass, because it’ll give them a opportunity to add more PokeBall summons from the 8th Generation. We’d still get a stage and music, but I think they should take it beyond that, at least if we get Cinderace or Toxtricity

I'd absolutely love that where they add Pokeballs instead of a stage or something, but I have a gut feeling it's not happening. Unless some kind of surprise DLC announcement was made, I don't think we're getting an 8th gen Rep at all. Again, this is just a gut feeling, so its not based on anything; there's no need to provide evidence or argue why I'm wrong when its just a feeling lol.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So I got to ask

When it Comes to Dante, if he does get in, What will happen to Vergil as far as Smash is Concerned

I don't Expect Vergil to be Playable along Dante in this game, unless perhaps they may have had extra time to make Vergil (If they base it of DMC3, Vergil could re-use Dante's Model, and 2 of his 3 Weapons share very Similar Movesets to Dante), but do you think he'd Start being Very Requested Character? Do you think he'd be added next Game?

-DMC3 is Perhaps the most Iconic game in the Series (we'll see how history shapes around DMC5), and Vergil is a big part of the reason why it's so Iconic.
-He's also an Important Part of DMC5, the Most Relevant game in the Series, and the Best one along with DMC3
-He's Very Popular, and used to Sell Special Editions of Games (DMC3, DMC4, DMC5).
-He's like Shadow the Hedgehog if he was never controversial
-He uses a Katana, and we don't have any characters currently that do
-Sakurai loves his Rival Characters. Meta Knight, Dark Pit, Dark Smaus, Wolf, Iori (Well he's not playable, but still), etc

If you also notice, The More Precense Vergil has in the game, the Better the Game is considered to be

-DMC3, DMC5 Have Large Vergil Precense, and are considered the best game in the Series
-DMC1 Has Vergil, albeit in a Corrupted form in Nelo. Still considered good, but not as much as 3 or 5
-DMC4 has Vergil, but he's not involved in Plot and only in Special Edition. DMC4 is Considered Very good, yet controversial because of the half finished nature
-DMC2 lacks Vergil, and is considered the worst Game
-DMC Reboot Features Reboot Vergil, who's Considered an Heavy Downgrade from the Original, which is how people feel about this Reboot
-UMVC3 has Vergil and is considered Amazing. MVCI doesn't and it's not considered Good (except for the gameplay which is Spectacular)

He'd get added in Smash Ultimate Special Edition.

 

[JOJONumber691]

So I got to ask

When it Comes to Dante, if he does get in, What will happen to Vergil as far as Smash is Concerned

I don't Expect Vergil to be Playable along Dante in this game, unless perhaps they may have had extra time to make Vergil (If they base it of DMC3, Vergil could re-use Dante's Model, and 2 of his 3 Weapons share very Similar Movesets to Dante), but do you think he'd Start being Very Requested Character? Do you think he'd be added next Game?

-DMC3 is Perhaps the most Iconic game in the Series (we'll see how history shapes around DMC5), and Vergil is a big part of the reason why it's so Iconic.
-He's also an Important Part of DMC5, the Most Relevant game in the Series, and the Best one along with DMC3
-He's Very Popular, and used to Sell Special Editions of Games (DMC3, DMC4, DMC5).
-He's like Shadow the Hedgehog if he was never controversial
-He uses a Katana, and we don't have any characters currently that do
-Sakurai loves his Rival Characters. Meta Knight, Dark Pit, Dark Smaus, Wolf, Iori (Well he's not playable, but still), etc

If you also notice, The More Precense Vergil has in the game, the Better the Game is considered to be

-DMC3, DMC5 Have Large Vergil Precense, and are considered the best game in the Series
-DMC1 Has Vergil, albeit in a Corrupted form in Nelo. Still considered good, but not as much as 3 or 5
-DMC4 has Vergil, but he's not involved in Plot and only in Special Edition. DMC4 is Considered Very good, yet controversial because of the half finished nature
-DMC2 lacks Vergil, and is considered the worst Game
-DMC Reboot Features Reboot Vergil, who's Considered an Heavy Downgrade from the Original, which is how people feel about this Reboot
-UMVC3 has Vergil and is considered Amazing. MVCI doesn't and it's not considered Good (except for the gameplay which is Spectacular)

Dante and Vergil would be epic.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I'd absolutely love that where they add Pokeballs instead of a stage or something, but I have a gut feeling it's not happening. Unless some kind of surprise DLC announcement was made, I don't think we're getting an 8th gen Rep at all. Again, this is just a gut feeling, so its not based on anything; there's no need to provide evidence or argue why I'm wrong when its just a feeling lol.

I feel like it probably will, mostly because of Smash Tradition lol.

 

[Garteam]

And this means what exactly about my post, which was Del claiming iconic, industry changing characters had nothing but loud fans going for them while calling a character who's only remembered because of a vocal fanbaseba gaming icon and how he's whined how it doesn't make sense as to why Sakurai picked a character Del didn't like instead of one from the same franchise he did like?

You're missing the point of the end of the video.

The idea isn't that "these characters only have popularity going for them", it's "these characters' situations are more complicated than their popularity may lead you to initially believe". For many outsiders and even people who haven't been in the speculation scene that long, who's getting the most discussion is often who's considered the most likely. The end of the video is a cautioned warning against this degree of binary thinking, that discussion is not the end all be all of Smash speculation and that critical thinking on a popular character's chances can go a long way.

 

[SNEKeater]

So I got to ask

When it Comes to Dante, if he does get in, What will happen to Vergil as far as Smash is Concerned

I don't Expect Vergil to be Playable along Dante in this game, unless perhaps they may have had extra time to make Vergil (If they base it of DMC3, Vergil could re-use Dante's Model, and 2 of his 3 Weapons share very Similar Movesets to Dante), but do you think he'd Start being Very Requested Character? Do you think he'd be added next Game?

-DMC3 is Perhaps the most Iconic game in the Series (we'll see how history shapes around DMC5), and Vergil is a big part of the reason why it's so Iconic.
-He's also an Important Part of DMC5, the Most Relevant game in the Series, and the Best one along with DMC3
-He's Very Popular, and used to Sell Special Editions of Games (DMC3, DMC4, DMC5).
-He's like Shadow the Hedgehog if he was never controversial
-He uses a Katana, and we don't have any characters currently that do
-Sakurai loves his Rival Characters. Meta Knight, Dark Pit, Dark Smaus, Wolf, Iori (Well he's not playable, but still), etc

If you also notice, The More Precense Vergil has in the game, the Better the Game is considered to be

-DMC3, DMC5 Have Large Vergil Precense, and are considered the best game in the Series
-DMC1 Has Vergil, albeit in a Corrupted form in Nelo. Still considered good, but not as much as 3 or 5
-DMC4 has Vergil, but he's not involved in Plot and only in Special Edition. DMC4 is Considered Very good, yet controversial because of the half finished nature
-DMC2 lacks Vergil, and is considered the worst Game
-DMC Reboot Features Reboot Vergil, who's Considered an Heavy Downgrade from the Original, which is how people feel about this Reboot
-UMVC3 has Vergil and is considered Amazing. MVCI doesn't and it's not considered Good (except for the gameplay which is Spectacular)

The only way Vergil would get in would be if Dante gets in now as DLC and then for the next Smash they bring him back and then go for Vergil to break the "rule" of a 3rd party series having 2 unique characters.
And that won't happen with DMC, even if I'd love that. If that ever happens it will be either Sonic or Street Fighter, I think. Maybe Mega Man.

As for Vergil content, if Dante is one of the challenger packs, Vergil will be, for sure, a spirit, and a stage cameo if they decide to go that route with Devil May Cry.
Possibly a Mii Costume. Also I could see Dante's Final Smash featuring Vergil, similar to Robin's Final Smash I guess. In that case it would probably replicate this scene from DMC3 (spoilers):

Spoiler

If Dante gets in I'd love to have Bury the Light as one of the included songs. I know the chances of this are almost none because of how recent is the song and all but hey, who knows.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Dante got in, I would expect Vergil being a Mii costume and spirit.