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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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Why didn't more people buy Resurrection? 😭
They either already owned it or weren't enticed by an older game.

I personally believe the roster should focus on bringing in a Mix of Old and New. Also, get ArcSys to develop it ASAP! I would love a MvC Game that even gets remotely close to looking like the MVC2 Artwork.
I always thought a cool visual direction to go in would be a graphic novel artstyle, with the Marvel characters using more of the art techniques from comic books, and the Capcom characters using more of the art techniques found in mangas.

But yeah, a hand drawn artstyle is definitely the way to go. If I could never have to see gross veiny almost realistic Haggar again...that'd be great. And more importantly, the artstyle shouldn't force the exclusion of characters like Viewtiful Joe.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Sadly, most people don't realise that when game developers actually LISTEN to them and give them what they want, the people are supposed to, y'know... BUY the thing they'd been asking for.

Just look at Samus Returns and Pikmin 3 Deluxe...
Samus Returns sold well for what it's worth, clearing out 70% of the initial shipment. As for Darkstalkers, I don't think it's fair to blame the fans for not buying a crappy port
 

SpectreJordan

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Honestly a lot of the earlier Vs. games have a lot of redundant or outdated characters I'm fine with leaving in the past. Don't think I need to see the likes of Bone Claws Wolverine or Marrow again.
Yeah, it’d be insulting to see them over the likes of The Thing or Miles Morales.

With “Everyone Is Here!” characters like Young Link & Pichu had their fanbases. No Marvel Comics fan wants Marrow back, while the MvC community’s favorites are usually top tiers like Psylocke or Dormammu. It just makes a lot more sense for Smash than it would for MvC.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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They either already owned it or weren't enticed by an older game.


I always thought a cool visual direction to go in would be a graphic novel artstyle, with the Marvel characters using more of the art techniques from comic books, and the Capcom characters using more of the art techniques found in mangas.

But yeah, a hand drawn artstyle is definitely the way to go. If I could never have to see gross veiny almost realistic Haggar again...that'd be great. And more importantly, the artstyle shouldn't force the exclusion of characters like Viewtiful Joe.
They could also also brought in people new to Darkstalkers... which for that, they failed in the marketing aspect
 

3BitSaurus

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I always thought a cool visual direction to go in would be a graphic novel artstyle, with the Marvel characters using more of the art techniques from comic books, and the Capcom characters using more of the art techniques found in mangas.

But yeah, a hand drawn artstyle is definitely the way to go. If I could never have to see gross veiny almost realistic Haggar again...that'd be great. And more importantly, the artstyle shouldn't force the exclusion of characters like Viewtiful Joe.
Hell, I think Venom is pretty much the only character I thought looked kinda good in that artstyle and even then, it's because it's ******* Venom. He's kinda meant to look "veiny".
 

Dinoman96

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Pikmin 3 Deluxe is doing really well in Japan, y'all.


Had the highest debut of any Pikmin game and has been projected in that thread to have good legs.
 

Guynamednelson

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In C. Viper's defense, she was one of the more popular SF4 newcomers. I was honestly expecting someone like Rashid in Infinite to represent SFV, but...
She's a product of MvC3's roster not being decided on in time to consider Juri.
 

Dinoman96

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There's a part of me that always felt that C. Viper was supposed to be a quick replacement for Frank West in vanilla MVC3.

See, back when MVC3 was first announced in April 2010, there was actually this big leak that revealed a huge portion of the game's roster.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995375-marvel-vs-capcom-3-fate-of-two-worlds/57826959

Unfortunately, the link to the leak is dead now, but the content of it was posted here on GameFAQs awhile back.

Ryu
Morrigan
Chris
Dante
Felicia
Chun-Li
Trish
Amaterasu
Viewtiful Joe
Wesker
Tron
Spencer
Arthur
Zero
Haggar
Hsien-Ko
Akuma
Frank West

Wolverine
Iron Man
Hulk
Deadpool
Captain America
Doctor Doom
Super-Skrull
Thor
She-Hulk
Spider-Man
X-23
Magneto
Taskmaster
Shuma-Gorath
Mr. Fantastic
Elektra
Emma Frost
Juggernaut


That was very clearly some early form of MVC3's roster. About 83% of the characters present here were in the final roster, and most of them were more obscure and specific choices like X-23, Taskmaster and Hsien-Ko that would be hard to guess together like that, as well as also making the bold (aka really dumb) move of excluding Mega Man. As you can, literally every single Capcom character on that list got into the game...all except for Frank West, who we know got cut for time constraints. In his place is the final game is C. Viper.

I just kinda wonder if when they discovered they didn't have enough time to finish Frank, they saw that they could reuse some assets from SF4 and throw in Viper to fill in his shoes for the time being.
 
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I.D.

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I have to make a slight correction here since you guys made me look it up. The costume doesn't appear in a single ad or trailer since February of 2019.


The costume doesn't appear in the showcase screenshots of the eshop and nintendo's website doesn't even bother mentioning it:

those fighters are pretty cool but wheres the buying incentive.jpg

Who exactly are the incentivizing if the only way you can know it exists is by looking up the full contents of the pass in one of the shops or watching the last smash direct from pre-release.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Hell, I think Venom is pretty much the only character I thought looked kinda good in that artstyle and even then, it's because it's ******* Venom. He's kinda meant to look "veiny".
I think Ultron, Sigma, and UltronSigma look really good. Arthur looks pretty good too, but it's kinda weird how short he is since all other humans are normally proportioned. X and Zero are alright as well, but...Their faces look off for some reason. Lo and behold, the only characters that actually look good are the only characters that are OK with being oddly shiny. lol

The biggest loser here is Firebrand, who doesn't quite look anatomically correct. It's like his hips have been elongated. Honerable mentions are Spider Man, who has the incorrect body type, and every human with a particularly ugly face...which is basically all of them but eh.

Haggar does have the ugliest win pose though. Who decided it was a good idea to try and replicate the anime semi-circle eyes in a realistic artstyle? Eyes don't close like that!
 
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SpectreJordan

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I’m gonna say the Mii costume won’t rule out Rex for FP2, it’s basically base game content at this point. They sold Mii costumes in Smash 4 of base roster characters right? If Rex becomes a fighter then the incentive could just shift to Mii Fighter mains getting an additional costume. 🤷‍♂️

If he doesn’t get in, it’s because they prioritized other characters. Not because they didn’t want to lose the exclusivity of the Mii costume.
 

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Sadly, most people don't realise that when game developers actually LISTEN to them and give them what they want, the people are supposed to, y'know... BUY the thing they'd been asking for.

Just look at Samus Returns and Pikmin 3 Deluxe...
Pikmin 3 is selling fine actually. It’s been in the top 3 of the eshop since release. Samus Returns sold well too, enough for the rumors of a MercurySteam made Switch Metroid to be so heavy that it’s almost confirmed. Poor Samus Returns also released on the 3DS in the middle of Switch hype. Not even a full month before Odyssey I believe. And despite all that still sold well.
 
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pupNapoleon

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"There are only 5 more DLC fighters! After they have been released, the continuous Smash development from Smash for 3DS/Wii U will finally come to an end."
That's a quotation translated from Sakurai, correct? Twitter kept loading incorrectly for me.
 

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Between that and the fact that it's illegal in a the UK, and potentially illegal later on down the line in other countries and such, I don't think Dragalia Lost will get anything unless they take the property and do something else with it.
Dragalia's released in the UK, the issue is that's the only European country it's released in.
 

Guynamednelson

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Dragalia's released in the UK, the issue is that's the only European country it's released in.
I stand corrected. It has been released in ONE European country, but I'm still not sure if that's enough to comply with Sakurai wanting characters that are accessible worldwide.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Dragalia's released in the UK, the issue is that's the only European country it's released in.
Hm. That might actually give him a shot then.

I stand corrected. It has been released in ONE European country, but I'm still not sure if that's enough to comply with Sakurai wanting characters that are accessible worldwide.
Well as far as I know the UK is made up of England, Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Wales (I think), and probably a few others, so it's more than just one country.
 

Momotsuki

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I don't know what the plans and such are because I wasn't there but if I had to guess the roster for FPV2 wasn't finalized until some time after the base game launched.
I'd bet both the base roster and FPV1's roster were set in stone around when development seriously got going, but FPV2 has a different gut feeling. It's why I don't think things that hurt fighters' chances last go around may be at play here. But again, I wasn't in the office when these decisions were made, so I dunno.
 
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SKX31

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I don't think Steve is clunky so much as he requires a different mindset to play.

Or ya'know, just spam Up Tilt. lol
Oh and also, Up Air / Up Smash everytime someone is above you.

60 % of the time, it works every time.

I stand corrected. It has been released in ONE European country, but I'm still not sure if that's enough to comply with Sakurai wanting characters that are accessible worldwide.
I'm willing to say "No." on that. The UK might have ca. 68 million... but that leaves a ca. 680 million strong region without an official release (Europe minus UK). And that's if we take the more direct definition of Europe. Do note that I'm not just talking about the countries under the European Union (27 countries, including France, Germany, Spain etc.) either, but also countries like Switzerland and Norway who generally get Nintendo releases alongside other European countries.

Hm. That might actually give him a shot then.


Well as far as I know the UK is made up of England, Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Wales (I think), and probably a few others, so it's more than just one country.
CGP Grey time:

* The UK is the bigger state, comprised of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Ireland's a separate state.

* (Great) Britain is the main British island (the big one). Comprised of England, Scotland and Wales.

* Ireland is split between (Republic of) Ireland and Northern Ireland (Ulster, the northeastern part. Belfast is the capital). Northen Ireland is part of the UK, Ireland's its own state with its capital in Dublin. The entirety of Ireland was part of the UK until shortly after WWI.

* The British state shares a Parliament (which effectively is the government), although Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own regional Parliaments too.

It's complicated, I know. Hope this helps.
 
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Speed Weed

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Also, get ArcSys to develop it ASAP!
to be completely honest i'm not sure if i really feel all the calls for arcsys to do mvc

like, i get that they're great developers, but i think mahvel should still be its own thing. their 2D anime style works wonders...but for their games. even without calling into question the logic of wanting a series to be handed off to another developer entirely just for the sake of a different artstyle, it feels very much like a square-peg-in-a-round-hole deal. just because arcsys games have a cool artstyle doesn't mean they should have a handle on every other fighting game so that they can have that artstyle too.

variety is extremely important in video games, and i think making marvel vs capcom look like an arcsys game just for the sake of looking like an arcsys game, while it would give mvc the charm of guilty gear or dbfz, it could make it lose the charm of....well....mvc. marvel vs capcom is just fine as it is, and i think it works better in the comic book cel-shade artstyle of mahvel 3 anyway.

sorry if i'm making a mountain out of a molehill, i'm just super tired of seeing people everywhere basically asking for arcsys to monopolize 2D fighting games as a whole (cause i don't just see it for mvc) just because their games have a pretty artstyle
 

pupNapoleon

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Its just that it feels like every time Spring Man's name is thrown in here, you MASSIVELY downplay his actual importance to the ARMS series,

I don't know how you don't see your posts and think that it doesn't look like your hating on Spring Man. Color me surprised when I found out you actually don't despise him.

we don't know what will happen in the future, he might be replaced or he might not
no one knows not even you (no your not using "facts" your speculating like everyone else") but hey if im wrong and Springman thrown to the sidelines ill gladly take the L
...because I'm tired of the argument that boxart means anything other than explaining the game in a way that makes parent want to buy it for there children. Hence- "Blue Boy, Pink Girl, Spring Arms. Oh, I get it. Little Jimmy will love it."
Or the false idea that any of the characters are all that complicated. It's a pretty simple game. Spring Man has as many mechanics as Min Min.

The only argument I've seen that makes sense is that he has a robot double, everything else makes absolutely no sense. We heard the exact quotation that 'there is no protagonist,' and quite frankly, Nintendo has shown us many times in the past that a character based game will wait to establish a mascot. See- Pikachu (not on the boxart until the fourth game), or Isabelle (not even created in the original games). It has nothing to do with Spring Man. And yes, looking into the future is speculation, but looking at what exists, it seems the word mascot isn't understood.

I guess, that over a trajectory of time, as Nintendo constantly validates my point of view, it is just crazy to hear it disputed still. Then again, as a general fan base, we don't really learn. Every fanmade rule, continually shattered, doesn't seem to stop it. And it's frustrating to see that for a mass group of people.
Eh, I'll still hope for another but remain cautious.
 
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ahemtoday

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to be completely honest i'm not sure if i really feel all the calls for arcsys to do mvc

like, i get that they're great developers, but i think mahvel should still be its own thing. their 2D anime style works wonders...but for their games. even without calling into question the logic of wanting a series to be handed off to another developer entirely just for the sake of a different artstyle, it feels very much like a square-peg-in-a-round-hole deal. just because arcsys games have a cool artstyle doesn't mean they should have a handle on every other fighting game so that they can have that artstyle too.

variety is extremely important in video games, and i think making marvel vs capcom look like an arcsys game just for the sake of looking like an arcsys game, while it would give mvc the charm of guilty gear or dbfz, it could make it lose the charm of....well....mvc. marvel vs capcom is just fine as it is, and i think it works better in the comic book cel-shade artstyle of mahvel 3 anyway.

sorry if i'm making a mountain out of a molehill, i'm just super tired of seeing people everywhere basically asking for arcsys to monopolize 2D fighting games as a whole (cause i don't just see it for mvc) just because their games have a pretty artstyle
I mean, I think the people at Arcsys are capable of changing up their style. If they were hypothetically put on an MVC game, I think they would try and make it look like MVC with their own spin on it, not... Guilty Gear with Marvel and Capcom characters. Honestly, Into the Spiderverse would be an awesome art style for a new MVC, and that kinda does the Arcsys thing with its models.

I get what you mean, though. I, too, hate when people act like all games should do this or shouldn't do that. Games are different from one another, and you can't just slap a one-size-fits-all solution on everything.
 

pupNapoleon

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Pikmin 3 Deluxe is doing really well in Japan, y'all.


Had the highest debut of any Pikmin game and has been projected in that thread to have good legs.
I mean, I know (in the USA), I'm waiting until Pikmin goes on sale to buy it.
Too soon to say for Pikmin 3 Deluxe. Besides, they kinda buried it under Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity.
Id wait on that, too, if I didnt know the story would be spoiled. Someone in this thread already spoiled TLOU2 earlier in the discussion :124:

Well as far as I know the UK is made up of England, Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Wales (I think), and probably a few others, so it's
more than just one country.
For the record-
Britain is England + Wales. Great Britain are those + Scotland. The UK is that + Northern Ireland.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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I personally believe the roster should focus on bringing in a Mix of Old and New. Also, get ArcSys to develop it ASAP! I would love a MvC Game that even gets remotely close to looking like the MVC2 Artwork.
The GAMEPLAY of MvC:I is quite literally the best it’s ever been in the entire series. Sending it over to ArcSys would just dumb it down if FighterZ and Strive are anything to go by.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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...because I'm tired of the argument that boxart means anything other than explaining the game in a way that makes parent want to buy it for there children. Hence- "Blue Boy, Pink Girl, Spring Arms. Oh, I get it. Little Jimmy will love it."
That's...literally what a mascot is.

Or the false idea that any of the characters are all that complicated. It's a pretty simple game. Spring Man has as many mechanics as Min Min.
Clearly you've never played as Helix or Misango. :p

But seriously though, ARMS has more depth than you'd think, and a lot of that comes from the characters themselves. Even the simplest characters in the game like Ninjara and Master Mummy, are harder to use because they don't act in the way you'd expect, or because their slow movement speed makes it hard for you to dodge, meaning knowing when to shield and when to dodge is much more important. While Min Min isn't the hardest character to grasp, you do have to manage that Dragon ARM so you can lay on the pressure, whereas Spring Man and Ribbon Girl's mechanics are more focused around helping you learn how to protect yourself with their superior mobility or give them more leeway with thier deflect ring out of a charge.

At first glance the game looks incredibly basic, but there's a lot more going on than people give it credit for. It's kind of sad people generally don't give it a second look.

I mean, I think the people at Arcsys are capable of changing up their style. If they were hypothetically put on an MVC game, I think they would try and make it look like MVC with their own spin on it, not... Guilty Gear with Marvel and Capcom characters. Honestly, Into the Spiderverse would be an awesome art style for a new MVC, and that kinda does the Arcsys thing with its models.

I get what you mean, though. I, too, hate when people act like all games should do this or shouldn't do that. Games are different from one another, and you can't just slap a one-size-fits-all solution on everything.
Pretty much this, though I don't think Into the Spiderverse's framerate would agree with the gameplay.

While I do think a faux 2D artstyle would be good for Marvel Vs. Capcom, I wouldn't say it would fit for something like Street Fighter. While Street Fighter could dial back the realism (it makes Dhalsim look pretty creepy, as well as Zangief when doing certain moves), and push for the smaller details that the earlier games's sprites could pull off (things like how clothes moved), I think its visual style is in a pretty decent place as of now.
 

pupNapoleon

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That's...literally what a mascot is.
Then I guess the mascots of Pokemon are Charizard and Venasaur.

Clearly you've never played as Helix or Misango. :p

But seriously though, ARMS has more depth than you'd think, and a lot of that comes from the characters themselves. Even the simplest characters in the game like Ninjara and Master Mummy, are harder to use because they don't act in the way you'd expect, or because their slow movement speed makes it hard for you to dodge, meaning knowing when to shield and when to dodge is much more important. While Min Min isn't the hardest character to grasp, you do have to manage that Dragon ARM so you can lay on the pressure, whereas Spring Man and Ribbon Girl's mechanics are more focused around helping you learn how to protect yourself with their superior mobility or give them more leeway with thier deflect ring out of a charge.

At first glance the game looks incredibly basic, but there's a lot more going on than people give it credit for. It's kind of sad people generally don't give it a second look.
Helix is my number 5.

I'm not saying that the characters don't have unique variables, but none are that difficult to pickup as to 'not make sense for a starting player.' At least not of the base ten. They all punch, block, grab. It's motion controlled. It is actually a lot like Smash- it can be easy to pick up for anyone to play, or it can get incredibly complex. Each character has unique mechanics that take practice and knowledge.
 
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pupNapoleon

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Before Pikachu emerged, yeah. Even now I'd say that they're still the mascots of Pokémon Red and Pokémon Green respectfully.
By that standard, then yes, I would agree- Spring Man is a mascot. But the mascot? No.
 

3BitSaurus

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...because I'm tired of the argument that boxart means anything other than explaining the game in a way that makes parent want to buy it for there children. Hence- "Blue Boy, Pink Girl, Spring Arms. Oh, I get it. Little Jimmy will love it."
Or the false idea that any of the characters are all that complicated. It's a pretty simple game. Spring Man has as many mechanics as Min Min.

The only argument I've seen that makes sense is that he has a robot double, everything else makes absolutely no sense. We heard the exact quotation that 'there is no protagonist,' and quite frankly, Nintendo has shown us many times in the past that a character based game will wait to establish a mascot. See- Pikachu (not on the boxart until the fourth game), or Isabelle (not even created in the original games). It has nothing to do with Spring Man. And yes, looking into the future is speculation, but looking at what exists, it seems the word mascot isn't understood.

I guess, that over a trajectory of time, as Nintendo constantly validates my point of view, it is just crazy to hear it disputed still. Then again, as a general fan base, we don't really learn. Every fanmade rule, continually shattered, doesn't seem to stop it. And it's frustrating to see that for a mass group of people.
I mean, Capcom didn't wait before making Ryu the mascot for SF, even though there are characters more popular than him. Nor did SNK wait for Terry to rank first in popularity polls to make him the mascot of Fatal Fury.

Fighting games work differently in that regard. Chun-li has arguably more popularity and you could say even a bigger role in SF's story at this point, but Ryu is still front and center - has been since the beginning. There's a reason why - he was designed for that.

And you can point to Pikachu or Isabelle, but one look at the other Nintendo franchises should tell you that they're the exception and not the rule. Even though I like Min Min, I'm honestly tired of people assuming she will take over a hypothetical ARMS sequel just because of popularity. That's not how fighting games work, in general.
 

pupNapoleon

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I mean, Capcom didn't wait before making Ryu the mascot for SF, even though there are characters more popular than him. Nor did SNK wait for Terry to rank first in popularity polls to make him the mascot of Fatal Fury.

Fighting games work differently in that regard. Chun-li has arguably more popularity and you could say even a bigger role in SF's story at this point, but Ryu is still front and center - has been since the beginning. There's a reason why - he was designed for that.

And you can point to Pikachu or Isabelle, but one look at the other Nintendo franchises should tell you that they're the exception and not the rule. Even though I like Min Min, I'm honestly tired of people assuming she will take over a hypothetical ARMS sequel just because of popularity. That's not how fighting games work, in general.
Alright. Then we can look at other massive fighting games.
Liu Kang isn't Scorpion.
Nightmare didn't exist in Soul Edge.
Heihachi isn't on many covers.

Ta-da.

As for what you referenced with other Nintendo games- I specified character based games. Meaning games that have no protagonist. So my point of relating ARMS to Pokemon and Animal Crossing is pretty on point. Unless you can think of a game that is all about characters and equivocation of those characters, where you can use any, that has a main one of them. I cannot.
 

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Alright. Then we can look at other massive fighting games.
Liu Kang isn't Scorpion.
Nightmare didn't exist in Soul Edge.
Heihachi isn't on many covers.

Ta-da.

As for what you referenced with other Nintendo games- I specified character based games. Meaning games that have no protagonist. So my point of relating ARMS to Pokemon and Animal Crossing is pretty on point. Unless you can think of a game that is all about characters and equivocation of those characters, where you can use any, that has a main one of them. I cannot.
Alright. Three examples.

What about Blazblue? KoF? Guilty Gear? Killer Instinct? Under Night? Virtua Fighter? Dead or Alive? Morrigan didn't take over until the third Darkstalkers.

Exception, not the rule.

And again, it's pretty much pointless to compare ARMS to Pokémon and Animal Crossing because they're different types of games entirely. It's completely moot to compare how a fighting game does mascots to how a game that uses avatar customization will.
 
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Flik

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Isn't Jin actually the main dude, though? I'm not too familiar with Tekken, and I know people like Heihachi a lot because he's the villain that makes the plot go, but I thought Jin was the Ryu of the series (if that's a fair comparison, idk).
He was the protagonist from Tekken 3 to 5, became the main villain in 6 and took a break from the story to let Kazuya and Heihachi do their final battle. He should be back to the main role in Tekken 8, while Kazuya becomes the main villain and heihachi will be gone for good if Harada doesn't chicken out.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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What about Blastoise for the Western-exclusive Pokémon Blue?
What about Blastoise? JK Blastoise, you're my favorite of the three.

Yeah, I'd consider it a mascot for Pokémon Blue for the same reason as the other two starters being mascots for their respective games.

I'm not saying that the characters don't have unique variables, but none are that difficult to pickup as to 'not make sense for a starting player.' At least not of the base ten. They all punch, block, grab. It's motion controlled. It is actually a lot like Smash- it can be easy to pick up for anyone to play, or it can get incredibly complex. Each character has unique mechanics that take practice and knowledge.
I...don't agree. While yes, even the most beginner friendly characters can have their mechanics further explored since they aren't completely shallow, the base roster includes a character with a disorienting poof shield, a few with harder to grasp mechanics (in the "how is this helpful" sort of way), a character with 0 agility in a game where dodging is good, a puppet fighter, and the wonkiest controlling character in the game.

You might get by with half of these characters, but I personally wouldn't recommend the other half of the game's base roster to first timers. To go back to your Super Smash Bros. example, sure the game itself is simple, and nobody really breaks the rules of the control scheme, but I wouldn't exactly recommend that a new player start with PAC-Man, Mega Man, Steve, Ness, Shulk, or even Sheik. They all have something that makes them a bit more difficult to use than normal be it execution, recovery, or just...everything really.
 
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He was the protagonist from Tekken 3 to 5, became the main villain in 6 and took a break from the story to let Kazuya and Heihachi do their final battle. He should be back to the main role in Tekken 8, while Kazuya becomes the main villain and heihachi will be gone for good if Harada doesn't chicken out.
Would it be fair to say the "mascot" of Tekken is the family as a whole instead of any particular member? It seems more complicated in that way than most fighting games.
 

Guynamednelson

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Would it be fair to say the "mascot" of Tekken is the family as a whole instead of any particular member? It seems more complicated in that way than most fighting games.
The main trio of Kazuya, Heihachi, and Jin, yes. Not their extended family like Lee.
 
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