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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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PS2 might yield iron / wood? Dunno what exactly, but PS2's edges are probably going to give iron. That's another stage where he might be extra dangerous since he's going to get decent+ materials at certain spots.

Yoshi's Story feels like another wood stage, although stone is fully possible there. Although given the slants a Steve player will want to edgeguard using other means (TNT, normals, especially d tilt since it travels downwards like PK Fire).
Pokémon Stadium 2 will probably be his very best stage then since he has good access to iron (albeit probably only in spots you don't really want to linger for too long), and the stage is quite campy.

I think Yoshi's Story would either be ground (because that's what it is in the Yoshi universe) or Wood because that's what cardboard is made of.

Rewatching it, it does look like he can get iron anywhere, so at least he won't be completely denied moves.
 

Shroob

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Just say Geno. The way this thread treats his fanbase and chances is garbage. Straight garbage. Especially when we've gotten Ridley, K Rool, and Banjo all in one game span.

The fact he's still treaten as a joke IS the joke.
I think Geno's likely

But the joke's that there's no evidence for him, despite what the thread claims. Look at all the evidence that got tossed out with Steve in, and ask yourself "Was it really evidence at all in the first place?", or just desperation to cling to something that validated an opinion.


If someone actually credible like Imran, Zhunge, Emily etc hinted Geno as the next character, people would take it seriously, believe me, but when your main backer's a guy with 0 credibility that actual insiders think is full of ****, then you're gonna have a bad time.


And while he doesn't speak for everyone, Mike was a bad look for the thread ngl. He's one user, so obviously it's not fair to judge an entire thread on it, but the first thing you do is come in and gloat for.... what reason again? I don't believe I saw anyone going on the offensive towards the Geno thread, so that was completely unprovoked, and it's as the saying goes, it only takes one bad egg to spoil the dozen. People like Mike are the reason the fanbase gets a bad rap, when they don't deserve it, but the loud, angry, unpleasant folk will always stick out more than the kind and quiet people.
 

XorahnGaia

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 24, 2019
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Imagine how funny it'd be if cacomallow was real, but it was with Doomslayer as the character
The funniest outcome in the unlikely timeline in which Cacomallow is real is the one where the Geno Mii costume returns alongside the Mallow costume...

Like at some point the Geno fanbase will have to choose between keeping this hoax hooked up to the life support machine or accepting that, even if it is real,
it could spell bad news for their character. And this could happen as soon as the next reveal.
 

3BitSaurus

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Fan of a character acts inappropriately and then the whole fanbase is generalized.

And so the cycle continues...
More like "fan of a character acts inappropriately, then 15 different people proceed to dogpile and throw insults that aim way lower than the original post".

It's like watching a guy bullying people with a slingshot... and then get accosted by a dozen people with Uzis.

Not like there's an option to ignore it. No, sir!

Anyway...

Steve doesn't seem like a character I'll play a lot - but he's probably the first character that can literally get counterpicked via stage. That must have taken an insane effort to program, dear God.

He's a lot more complicated than I thought he would be. Kinda wish you could upgrade armor, but with all his other tools, I guess it would be OP. That said... I'm predicting him to be around mid-low tier, if only because of the whole "mining for resources" gimmick. Doesn't seem like it will fly that well with the competitive community - he needs it to upgrade attacks, which are bad by themselves due to item durability - but that also means you'd need to try and camp a bit depending on the matchup.

That said, a good Steve player will probably suck in the early game but then become harder to stop as time goes by. Which makes sense considering his origins.

The songs being mostly remixes also lines up with my expectations. I do wish we could pick the stage form by hand, though... hope that could be a thing in a future update, as it requires no extra art work.

Finally... RIP Travis... from the Travis series lol. I kinda figured this was the sort of NMH content we'd get. What caught me off-guard was the costume being based on TSB rather than NMH or NMH2.

Still, that's one contender out of the running. I was sure the MH costumes would come back, yet they didn't. I'm predicting Lloyd to come back with the next character, as he's the only Namco costume left.
 
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extremeturkey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
114
KOS-MOS' franchise is dead, only exists via cameos in other games, and failed a marketing survey from Namco. She's a zombie

Fair point on Haruka but she's still worlds more well-known than KOS-MOS is, and her franchise is far bigger and still ongoing.

Every Katamari game as been fully localized and a guarentee you Katamari is WAY more well-known than Xenosaga. Katamari is a much more iconic and ongoing franchise.
I would go nuts if they add the prince of the cosmos, he'd be SO FUN!!!! Would have a great stage, too!
 

Will

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What caught me off-guard was the costume being based on TSB rather than NMH or NMH2.
I mean TSA is the most recent game, I don't think they really use stuff from future games in development unless it was a character thing like Luigi's new grab.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
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I mean TSA is the most recent game, I don't think they really use stuff from future games in development unless it was a character thing like Luigi's new grab.
It's also a spin-off though, they could've used his mainline appearance. Not a huge deal to me, though.
 

Dr. Yatagarasu

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More like "fan of a character acts inappropriately, then 15 different people proceed to dogpile and throw insults that aim way lower than the original post".

It's like watching a guy bullying people with a slingshot... and then get accosted by a dozen people with Uzis.

Not like there's an option to ignore it. No, sir!

Anyway...

Steve doesn't seem like a character I'll play a lot - but he's probably the first character that can literally get counterpicked via stage. That must have taken an insane effort to program, dear God.

He's a lot more complicated than I thought he would be. Kinda wish you could upgrade armor, but with all his other tools, I guess it would be OP. That said... I'm predicting him to be around mid-low tier, if only because of the whole "mining for resources" gimmick. Doesn't seem like it will fly that well with the competitive community - he needs it to upgrade attacks, which are bad by themselves due to item durability - but that lso means you'd need to try and camp a bit depending on the matchup.

That said, a good Steve player will probably suck in the early game but then become harder to stop as time goes by. Which makes sense considering his origins.

The songs being mostly remixes also lines up with my expectations. I do wish we could pick the stage form by hand, though... hope that could be a thing in a future update, as it requires no extra art work.

Finally... RIP Travis... from the Travis series lol. I kinda figured this was the sort of NMH content we'd get. What caught me off-guard was the costume being based on TSB rather than NMH or NMH2.

Still, that's one contender out of the running. I was sure the MH costumes would come back, yet they didn't. I'm predicting Lloyd to come back with the next character, as he's the only Namco costume left.
My main concern with Steve is how the whole block placement thing pans out. It really does seem like a good Steve player could use it as a "I win" button if they manage to get an opponent with a linear recovery offstage.
 
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Will

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It's also a spin-off though, they could've used his mainline appearance. Not a huge deal to me, though.
I'm a fan of the TSA jacket. Mostly because it's purple. So definitely not a negative for me.
 

Evil Trapezium

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I am little sad about Travis Touchdown being mii costumed but honestly I think he's a decent fit for a Mii costume. Just a shame that he won't come with any music or a Santa destroy stage.

On a selfish note, that means one less competition for Cortez and if Steve is set to Minecraft's official release date of 2011 in All-Star mode, that means he's not a 2000's rep and that means Cortez is safe!

YEAH IT'S TIME TO SPLIT!
Oh yeah I'm ready.gif
 

Shroob

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Didn't you say if he didn't come before the Mario tournament you were writing him off? Or am I confusing you with Scoliosis
I definitely think it's odd that there's no Mario character before the Tournament, especially since we can see that the last 2 characters have lined up with marketing ****, but with the lack of costume, I kinda 'have' to keep that door open until it shuts one way or another.
 

Tree Gelbman

100 Percent Done
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I think Geno's likely

But the joke's that there's no evidence for him, despite what the thread claims. Look at all the evidence that got tossed out with Steve in, and ask yourself "Was it really evidence at all in the first place?", or just desperation to cling to something that validated an opinion.


If someone actually credible like Imran, Zhunge, Emily etc hinted Geno as the next character, people would take it seriously, believe me, but when your main backer's a guy with 0 credibility that actual insiders think is full of ****, then you're gonna have a bad time.


And while he doesn't speak for everyone, Mike was a bad look for the thread ngl. He's one user, so obviously it's not fair to judge an entire thread on it, but the first thing you do is come in and gloat for.... what reason again? I don't believe I saw anyone going on the offensive towards the Geno thread, so that was completely unprovoked, and it's as the saying goes, it only takes one bad egg to spoil the dozen. People like Mike are the reason the fanbase gets a bad rap, when they don't deserve it, but the loud, angry, unpleasant folk will always stick out more than the kind and quiet people.

I'm sorry I've known you for years (Fisher/Roger Smith) and Shroob I know you're smarter than this and know that treating one large group over the actions of one or two is the biggest load ever.

You also know how many times evidence has been in the face of us before and we've wrote it off. We can't say anything about what is or really isn't evidence when well we're not Sakurai and his team. They're the only ones who have concrete evidence like that. It's all hearsay in the end no matter the character or who said it.
 

3BitSaurus

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My main concern with Steve is how the whole block placement thing pans out. It really does seem like a good Steve player could use it as a "I win" button if they manage to get an opponent with a linear recovery offstage.
Tbh I don't think it will be that OP unless the Steve player has already built (heh) an advantage. The blocks break pretty quickly, even more so if you're far away from the stage. Plus, it probably won't be that good against recoveries with a hitbox-you'd have to predict their recovery time and risk getting punished.
 

AreJay25

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As a regular old fan of Smash, that was pretty enjoyable to watch. I've stated before that I wasn't too keen on the reveal initially because I'm not a Minecraft fan, but there was clearly a lot of care put into adding this character and I can appreciate the efforts. Steve looks incredibly unique and that's always cool to see.

From a competitive player's perspective, I can already tell I'm going to ****ing hate fighting this character lmao.

Also I'm pouring one out for all the Travis supporters. Really thought he had a decent shot so it sucks to see he's out of the running.
 

I.D.

Smash Lord
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The lack of the Lloyd costume has me kind of suspisiouc not going to lie.

It may mean nothing but who knows, we might finally get the last feasible brawl era request
I'm thinking the opposite honestly.
This has been the second time in a row that a Bamco costume returns in an unrelated presentation. Now only Lloyd is left.
If I were a Tales fans I'd be sweating bullets before the next character's presentation.
 

MisterMike

Smash Champion
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A pettier person than myself would just suggest to pay attention to what MisterMike MisterMike wants and remind him when it fails to come to fruition.

It shouldn't be too hard, he's a Geno supporter.
What are you talking about? I had already gotten everyone I ever wanted for Smash by the time Banjo was revealed. I mostly hang around the Geno thread because the speculation is fun. Well, at least more fun than the speculation in this thread.

I'm saving this for when the Geno costume shows up.
Word of advice: If you're going to laugh at Genobros, you'd be better served by screencapping images that actually talk about Geno rather than dunking on "MUH RELEVANCY" people, because I don't think anyone is going to understand the context of that comment at a glance unless you explain it to them.

Something tells me Monster Hunter's Mii Costume is next costume for the next character, which is Dante.

That said, don't be an ass to Travis fans.
It should be stated for the record that I wasn't trying to dunk on Travis fans in particular. Rather, I was dunking on people who bandwagon onto characters because they're either 1) relevant to gaming at the current and 2) have a new game/DLC coming out.

no offence... and nothing aginst you.. but the geno thread does the same thing, dont they? Every coincidental thing points to Geno being in Smash. Is it really worth being a hypocrite?
Sure, but it's largely irrelevant to my post, so I don't know why people are bringing it up.

It's people like you that fuel the "Geno fans are assholes" view that a lot of the community has. Don't go around being a **** or people will rub it in in the likely case that Geno gets deconfirmed.
First off, I'm not a representitive of the Geno thread. Nobody from the thread told me to be a **** to "MUH RELEVANCY" people, and I don't think they'd condone it either. I only speak for myself and myself alone. Secondly, I wasn't trying to dunk on people who wanted Travis specifically, much in the same way that my Banjo celebration video wasn't meant to dunk on Stevebros. I don't dunk on people merely for wanting a character, I dunk on people who make fallacious arguments, and saying that a character who has a new game or DLC coming out is more likely for Smash is a fallacy, and I don't feel bad about ****ting on people for it.

MisterMike MisterMike Was the gloating against Travis fans really necessary? It was actually uncalled for.
It was a small price to pay to dunk on "MUH RELEVANCY" people.

Quick, name the most-likely JRPG character for FP2. In case they wanna go by theming again (I've noticed they've done that a few times, but not all the time).
Rex & Pyra seem pretty likely, I will admit.

I mean, Byleth shows that there's merit to that belief as that's one of the main reasons he got in to begin with.
Sure, but it's fallacious to act like it's a set in stone rule for speculation going forward, just as it is to assume that Spirits disconfirm characters.

Besides, don't you guys always say that Geno will be announced alongside the announcement of a Super Mario RPG remake? How's that any different from saying relevancy matters?
Simple: Most people in the Geno thread don't believe it's 100% happening. The rumors is there, but that's all they are. People who acted like Dante was coming as FP5 because new DmC info was dropping on the same day as the reveal were convinced that it was happening, despite all past precedent telling them that it most likely wouldn't.

Imagine being this much of a petty asshole.
You don't need to imagine it, mate, it's already right there.

Fan of a character acts inappropriately and then the whole fanbase is generalized.

And so the cycle continues...
Ain't that the truth. Well, it's more like "A random guy who frequents X thread comes in to **** on a specific idea that some people push exsessively and X thread gets blamed.".

I really wonder what your problem is.
Well, I hate fan rules and fallaciosu arguments for one. For two, I hate that a thread like this, that has such a bevy of characters and theories to discuss, instead decides to cluster around only a handful of hopefuls at a time, mostly depending on which ones have new games coming out at the time, and feel completely justified in ****ting on one character in particular simply by virtue of them existing, and yet who recoil in outrage whenever someone tells them that their ****ty arguments are ****ty. Basically, I hate the circlejerking that goes on around here.
 

Shroob

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I'm sorry I've known you for years (Fisher/Roger Smith) and Shroob I know you're smarter than this and know that treating one large group over the actions of one or two is the biggest load ever.

You also know how many times evidence has been in the face of us before and we've wrote it off. We can't say anything about what is or really isn't evidence when well we're not Sakurai and his team. They're the only ones who have concrete evidence like that. It's all hearsay in the end no matter the character or who said it.
When your evidence boils down to "Gamespot leaked Geno!", except not really, "Geno will be fighter 77 because 7" or you know who says he heard Geno, is that evidence?

The only real big thing Geno has going for him is his Mii costume is still gone, which can be the same as Monster Hunter or Lloyd, and no, I really, REALLY do not believe in Cacomallow.


I'm going to flat out say something that I've heard repeated ad nauseum, as someone who has actually leaked stuff in the past, the opinions about you know who, no, not Geno, are not good when it comes to people who have actually legitimately leaked stuff, so, who am I supposed to believe? People who have a proven track record, or one guy who claims to know everything, despite no one knowing who's coming next until their press kits come in?
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
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I think Geno's likely

But the joke's that there's no evidence for him, despite what the thread claims. Look at all the evidence that got tossed out with Steve in, and ask yourself "Was it really evidence at all in the first place?", or just desperation to cling to something that validated an opinion.


If someone actually credible like Imran, Zhunge, Emily etc hinted Geno as the next character, people would take it seriously, believe me, but when your main backer's a guy with 0 credibility that actual insiders think is full of ****, then you're gonna have a bad time.


And while he doesn't speak for everyone, Mike was a bad look for the thread ngl. He's one user, so obviously it's not fair to judge an entire thread on it, but the first thing you do is come in and gloat for.... what reason again? I don't believe I saw anyone going on the offensive towards the Geno thread, so that was completely unprovoked, and it's as the saying goes, it only takes one bad egg to spoil the dozen. People like Mike are the reason the fanbase gets a bad rap, when they don't deserve it, but the loud, angry, unpleasant folk will always stick out more than the kind and quiet people.
I'd argue a lot of characters all have circumstantial evidence though in all fairness. I don't think any character has been hinted at by Imran or ZHunge aside from those that are already in.

Like I feel as though Dante's evidence is circumstantial, as is Monster Hunter, Rex and Pyra, Master Chief, Lloyd, Reimu, Sora and honestly even Crash Bandicoot have lacking evidence. The issue is that the Geno thread believes the circumstantial evidence is a lock (Coming from someone who likes and wants Geno, I really don't think he's a lock)
 
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Will

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Tbh I don't think it will be that OP unless the Steve player has already built (heh) an advantage. The blocks break pretty quickly, even more so if you're far away from the stage. Plus, it probably won't be that good against recoveries with a hitbox-you'd have to predict their recovery time and risk getting punished.
But if you do break the block regardless, doesn't that still slow your momentum?
 

SKX31

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Pokémon Stadium 2 will probably be his very best stage then since he has good access to iron (albeit probably only in spots you don't really want to linger for too long), and the stage is quite campy.

I think Yoshi's Story would either be ground (because that's what it is in the Yoshi universe) or Wood because that's what cardboard is made of.

Rewatching it, it does look like he can get iron anywhere, so at least he won't be completely denied moves.
Now that has very interesting implications if PS2 is as dangerous as KPL and Lylat, since that makes it much more likely that one of the games in a Bo3 (especially) Bo5's going to be played on Steve's terms (assuming 2 bans, 3 bans does "solve" that).

He won't be completely denied, no, but opponents are going to be interested in limiting him as much as possible.

More like "fan of a character acts inappropriately, then 15 different people proceed to dogpile and throw insults that aim way lower than the original post".

It's like watching a guy bullying people with a slingshot... and then get accosted by a dozen people with Uzis.

Not like there's an option to ignore it. No, sir!

Anyway...

Steve doesn't seem like a character I'll play a lot - but he's probably the first character that can literally get counterpicked via stage. That must have taken an insane effort to program, dear God.

He's a lot more complicated than I thought he would be. Kinda wish you could upgrade armor, but with all his other tools, I guess it would be OP. That said... I'm predicting him to be around mid-low tier, if only because of the whole "mining for resources" gimmick. Doesn't seem like it will fly that well with the competitive community - he needs it to upgrade attacks, which are bad by themselves due to item durability - but that lso means you'd need to try and camp a bit depending on the matchup.

That said, a good Steve player will probably suck in the early game but then become harder to stop as time goes by. Which makes sense considering his origins.

The songs being mostly remixes also lines up with my expectations. I do wish we could pick the stage form by hand, though... hope that could be a thing in a future update, as it requires no extra art work.

Finally... RIP Travis... from the Travis series lol. I kinda figured this was the sort of NMH content we'd get. What caught me off-guard was the costume being based on TSB rather than NMH or NMH2.

Still, that's one contender out of the running. I was sure the MH costumes would come back, yet they didn't. I'm predicting Lloyd to come back with the next character, as he's the only Namco costume left.
"Stop, he's already dead!"

That said, I do think Steve has the potential to be high tier. Like Dr. Yatagarasu Dr. Yatagarasu said, those blocks can screw with linear recovery (ESAM screamed out of anguish when he saw Pikachu fall victim to this), and the main point is that Steve can choose when to place those blocks. The fact they decay quickly doesn't really matter much when the block itself can impede or even stop recoveries in their tracks. Hell, characters like :ultkrool: , :ultbanjokazooie: and :ultroy: don't have many options to break through blocks safely (and depending on how the block interacts with Grenades it can screw over Banjo really hard). That's not getting into the fact that Steve can choose to use ground moves a la Rivals of Aether's Cragg (IIRC) or go for aerials and contest recoveries like crazy.

Steve's biggest drawback is going to be likely early game neutral vs. swordies and disadvantage, but I'll write in depth once this thread has cooled down.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Something I am left wondering about is given how big Steve is via Minecraft if that played any factor in the significance of the rest of the pass. Does Nintendo consider him a big selling point and thus the rest can be riskier choices because the pass has been boosted by Steve, or is there a sense that the rest should be of some major status to avoid being a letdown in comparison to him?
 

MooMew64

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I'm just sitting here wondering how many other costumes will just directly use AT models.

Like, that's a genius idea. I hope so bad this gives characters like Shovel Knight a fighting chance for a costume.

Oh, and we're gonna be able to make Creeper Sans a reality. Also Creeper Pig and Pig Creeper.
 
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