Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[tenworldsguy]

Is an indie rep reasonable to propose in this speculation? Indies aren't traditionally in smash but SK (and his co) and Shantae are in, albiet as cameos. UT and MC are huge in Japan, and I've heard Touhou is big there. But UT is about nonviolence, Touhou is a literal "what" here, and Minecraft was basically deconfirmed by Banjo.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Is an indie rep reasonable to propose in this speculation? Indies aren't traditionally in smash but SK (and his co) and Shantae are in, albiet as cameos. UT and MC are huge in Japan, and I've heard Touhou is big there. But UT is about nonviolence, Touhou is a literal "what" here, and Minecraft was basically deconfirmed by Banjo.

Minecraft could still happen, though I doubt it. It's not really an indie anymore, though.

I think Undertale could happen, since Smash is like a sporting event hence the characters clapping at the end (or in the Ice Climbers' cases, crying). If the character was, say, Frisk, they could have a "LOVE" mechanic that makes their attacks a bit stronger and changes up their moves/animations a bit if they're more violent (a moveset I thought was nice was shared in the Frisk thread, something like what I just mentioned but explains it better; it's on the last page). Sans & Papyrus I think could be easier to imagine.

Nintendo also put Undertale for Switch and Deltarune in their main Directs instead of their Nindies Directs, and they have a couple of playthroughs for the games on their channel, so they seem to like them.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Sans/Frisk is a slept on character imo. Undertale is the biggest indie game not represented in Smash, not counting the Craft. But I think this dlc wave we may get Minecraft mii suits.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Except there is the possibility of there being more DLC after the Fighter Pass.

Yep

Amino theory saids two more since they are coming in batches of 3

 

[SpectreJordan]

My ideal for Frisk is that they would summon their friends to help him fight. It would represent Undertale’s theme of friendship as well as representing all of the major parts of the game.

It’d also please people who want Sans, Papyrus or Undyne as the playable character since they’d all be part of the moveset.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My ideal for Frisk is that they would summon their friends to help him fight. It would represent Undertale’s theme of friendship as well as representing all of the major parts of the game.

It’d also please people who want Sans, Papyrus or Undyne as the playable character since they’d all be part of the moveset.

>no Mettaton

Excuse you

Alphys technically doesn't fight so Mettaton would probably fill in for her

 

[SpectreJordan]

Mettaton, Alphys, Asgore & Toriel would all be in the moveset too. I just mentioned those 3 since they’re picks I see a decent amount.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't expect any "bonus" or extra dlc character, if any, anytime soon. If there are further DLC announcements, those are going to be made post Fighter pass.

I am of the belief that most likely we wont get anything at EVO and, in the event of a reveal there, I would expect someone from a Fighting game rather than any other type of character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Huh, really? So Young Link's kinda that for Link?

My thinking on echo fighter criteria is this:

1. The character must have a good amount of appeal. (I can't imagine most people would care about someone like Demise)
2. The character must have the exact same proportions as the original fighter. (Characters like Young Link and Isabelle do not fit this criteria)
3. The character must have a visibly different personality (Alph's manorisms are very similar to Olimar's, and the characters don't speak in Smash).
4. Any new attacks for the character have to be ripped from other characters.

So why is Dr. Mario a clone and not an echo fighter? *shrugs*

Also, why do people consider Minecraft to be an indie game? It may have been made by one person but Microsoft has owned it for years. Personally I think that makes it a AAA title.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Is an indie rep reasonable to propose in this speculation? Indies aren't traditionally in smash but SK (and his co) and Shantae are in, albiet as cameos. UT and MC are huge in Japan, and I've heard Touhou is big there. But UT is about nonviolence, Touhou is a literal "what" here, and Minecraft was basically deconfirmed by Banjo.

As someone with an unhealthy amount of confidence in Frisk, I'd say Undertale's pacifism themes don't hinder the series in any way. People said the same thing about Isabelle being non-violent, but Sakurai managed to make her work. The fact that Nintendo likes to advertise Undertale/Deltarune with the big-budget games instead of relegating it to Nindies showcases shows that they see it as a huge game and I wouldn't be surprised if an Undertale character was on that list of characters Nintendo gave to Sakurai

My ideal for Frisk is that they would summon their friends to help him fight. It would represent Undertale’s theme of friendship as well as representing all of the major parts of the game.

It’d also please people who want Sans, Papyrus or Undyne as the playable character since they’d all be part of the moveset.

I said this before, but my ideal Frisk moveset would be something that incorporated the ACT/FIGHT commands and gives the player consequences for their actions. Undertale is all about choosing to spare or kill your opponent and the effects that has on the game's world, so incorporating that into Frisk's moveset would be the best way to encapsulate the themes of all of Undertale's routes.

 

[Dust319]

My thinking on echo fighter criteria is this:

1. The character must have a good amount of appeal. (I can't imagine most people would care about someone like Demise)
2. The character must have the exact same proportions as the original fighter. (Characters like Young Link and Isabelle do not fit this criteria)
3. The character must have a visibly different personality (Alph's manorisms are very similar to Olimar's, and the characters don't speak in Smash).
4. Any new attacks for the character have to be ripped from other characters.

So why is Dr. Mario a clone and not an echo fighter? *shrugs*

I suspect the echo fighter thing really has more to do with the character’s development more than anything else.
I’m thinking that echo fighters were characters not in the original planning stage but turned out to be simple to implement due to sharing multiple resources with another character (or characters). This is pretty much how Lucina came about in 4, and so they went ahead and labeled her and Dark Pit this way in order to ease players into the concept.
Thus you have old returning characters like Doctor Mario and Young Link who keep the numbering, and characters like Chrom and Ken who don’t.
That does mean it’s difficult to predict who they would label as an echo versus a standard character, but that’s more in line with how actual game development goes.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Alph should be an echo using Rock Pikmin.

Give the captains their voices, dang it, and let Alph blink. His eyes are hurting, and he doesn't want to take a punch for them to work.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Is an indie rep reasonable to propose in this speculation? Indies aren't traditionally in smash but SK (and his co) and Shantae are in, albiet as cameos. UT and MC are huge in Japan, and I've heard Touhou is big there. But UT is about nonviolence, Touhou is a literal "what" here, and Minecraft was basically deconfirmed by Banjo.

I've always been of the belief that if an indie character is happening, It'll be Shantae or Reimu. Nothing's changed on my belief on that. I don't think popularity is the only factor worth considering.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The only reason Joker was at the VGAs was because Nintendo wanted to reveal the first Fighter's Pass character before release to entice fans to buy the pass and it was conveniently a few days before Ultimate's launch date. The most likely thing IMO for DLC character #5 is a final Smash Direct for Ultimate like for Corrin and Bayonetta in 4. I'm sure they want to have a send off for Ultimate like with 4.

A few days? Try a few minutes. Also I don’t see how revealing Joker before Smash’s release would effect the sales of the fighter pass any more than if he was just revealed after the games release. I think they just chose to reveal Joker there because it would reach a larger/wider audience, and it just happened to be on the night before the game released.

Plus Nintendo has had some presence at the Game Awards for the past several years now.
2013: The reveal of Cranky Kong in Tropical Freeze.
2014 Breath of the Wild gameplay reveal.
2015: Reggie’s heartfelt tribute to the late Iwata.
2016: New gameplay footage from Breath of the Wild.
2017: Announcement of Bayonetta 1 & 2 on Switch, Bayonetta 3, and the reveal of Breath of the Wild’s DLC pack 2.
2018: The reveal of Joker in Smash.

 

[KingBroly]

I wonder how far out Geoff Keighley knew what Nintendo was presenting at the VGA's. And what he was hoping for from Nintendo before he found out.

I could see them putting out the final DLC character trailer at the VGA's this year, but there's no guarantee.

 

[Nquoid]

Imagining how nuts it would be if Doom Eternal won Game of the Year at the VGAs (I still feel like that's wide open this year?) and then Nintendo debuted a trailer for Doom Slayer.

 

[KingBroly]

Imagining how nuts it would be if Doom Eternal won Game of the Year at the VGAs (I still feel like that's wide open this year?) and then Nintendo debuted a trailer for Doom Slayer.

It could be Doom Eternal. This year hasn't had many standouts.

 

[Nquoid]

It could be Doom Eternal. This year hasn't had many standouts.

What really is there so far? RE2, Sekiro, Apex, DMC5, SMM2 and FE:3H? Doom Eternal or Resident Evil 2 winning a load of awards would be great for Smash if Leon and/or Doom Slayer were the last two picks.

 

[Door Key Pig]

If Shovel Knight couldn't get a character with his ballot support and Japanese Nintendo distribution, what makes Undertale more likely? I'll give you it's going beyond having one game to its name (though so has Shantae PLUS some ballot support, right? And she was just a spirit)

My thinking on echo fighter criteria is this:

1. The character must have a good amount of appeal. (I can't imagine most people would care about someone like Demise)
2. The character must have the exact same proportions as the original fighter. (Characters like Young Link and Isabelle do not fit this criteria)
3. The character must have a visibly different personality (Alph's manorisms are very similar to Olimar's, and the characters don't speak in Smash).
4. Any new attacks for the character have to be ripped from other characters.

So why is Dr. Mario a clone and not an echo fighter? *shrugs*

Also, why do people consider Minecraft to be an indie game? It may have been made by one person but Microsoft has owned it for years. Personally I think that makes it a AAA title.

I don't think Ken's unique attacks were from other characters tho.

I'm guessing it's simply easy (in some cases, real easy) clones based off of other characters but don't fall under Isabelle levels of uniqueness (no different body proportions requiring entirely new animations) and came about in the Smash 4/Smash Ultimate development period.

Young Link, that said, did get updated as well as by proxy of regular Link having new moves, is as close as you can get to Classic Link. Bar the Gale Boomerang at best. I mean, Hookshot and Clawshot were more or less the same move, bar model changes. Giving him Triforce Slash does make you feel like he was intended as that. But I don't remember any article stating this as an intention, though. It would make sense. Young Link is a regular version of Link from various games after all. Who better to represent the original moveset? The Trophies were written with it in mind(that Young Link is believed to be the one from Zelda 1).

Wait, so Young Link can sorta canonically be considered NES Zelda Link as well??

Dixie Kong is far harder to say. It could be just the hair alone wasn't plausible and considered too much of a drastic change. Maybe he still is holding onto the idea of her being a Partner archtype. Maybe she wasn't high priority to begin with(at least that explains K. Rool in Ultimate over her. Or maybe he just was more voted?). If we do get her at some point, he might explain his reasonings more. That said, she'd still work as an Echo as is, even if the only real difference is a unique Up B. That's the bare minimum she needs. Diddy no longer uses his tail on attacks, so that makes her able to do all his moves quite easily. And possibly a new Neutral B based upon a similar idea. From what I was told earlier, to note, is that Dixie and DK share the same body structure, so they could rework his Up B into a variant for hers(not unlike how Chrom got a variant of Ike's Up B), though I can't say for sure if it'd actually work. If not clear, I'm using "maybe"-based phrasing for that reason alone. Anyway, I hope she gets in at some point.

Maybe they could do an "easy" fighter's pass with more echos or semiclones and/or characters from existing series so they needn't worry about developing a stage as well. Would cut developer's costs on additional DLC while still making a lot of fans happy with certain characters so it's a win-win.
They could do Tails, Dixie, Medusa, Ms. Pac-Man, Roll/Bass/Proto-Man that also uses some scrapped custom moves of Mega Man that were in 4, Octolings... And that's just the clone choices (*cough* Geno *cough* assuming fans wouldn't mind no stage *cough*)

You think if we do hypothetically get a first party, people will be mad because it wasn't x third party/someone bigger? Would it be another Corrin situation?

 

[HyruleHero]

It could be Doom Eternal. This year hasn't had many standouts.

Well the games that have stood out for me this years are;
Kingdom Hearts 3
Resident Evil 2: Remake
Sekiro
Deltarune
Mortal Combat 11
Mario Maker 2
Cadence Of Hyrule
Bloodstained
Fire Emblem: Three Houses
I'd also keep an eye out for Doom Eternal, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion, Death Stranding

 

[tenworldsguy]

I wouldn't expect any "bonus" or extra dlc character, if any, anytime soon. If there are further DLC announcements, those are going to be made post Fighter pass.

I am of the belief that most likely we wont get anything at EVO and, in the event of a reveal there, I would expect someone from a Fighting game rather than any other type of character.

If we get Heihechi it'll be there for sure.

Give the captains their voices, dang it, and let Alph blink. His eyes are hurting, and he doesn't want to take a punch for them to work.

Please, Nintendo. Is it really that hard to get Oli and Alph some life? They have voices in their games (Alph in particular is a real chatterbox), and, frankley, personality. It's like a MM situation where despite the character having a well-defined voice Smash chooses to not use it for whatever reason.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wait, so Young Link can sorta canonically be considered NES Zelda Link as well??

At least in Smash's opinion. Adult Link in Smash itself has some pretty clear things he's designed after. Young Link isn't that small either. Overall, the Link in some of the old games looks older than Young Link and younger than Adult Link. The only one that I would say is Adult Link(correlating to Smash at least) at best among some of the 2D games is Zelda II's version, but only due to his design having an older look and the Up/Down Stabs.

[quoteMaybe they could do an "easy" fighter's pass with more echos or semiclones and/or characters from existing series so they needn't worry about developing a stage as well. Would cut developer's costs on additional DLC while still making a lot of fans happy with certain characters so it's a win-win.
They could do Tails, Dixie, Medusa, Ms. Pac-Man, Roll/Bass/Proto-Man that also uses some scrapped custom moves of Mega Man that were in 4, Octolings... And that's just the clone choices (*cough* Geno *cough* assuming fans wouldn't mind no stage *cough*)

You think if we do hypothetically get a first party, people will be mad because it wasn't x third party/someone bigger? Would it be another Corrin situation?

I'd love that. Though to be fair, clones and semi-clones take a lot more work than Echoes do. Anyway, I just want Octolings for Echoes alone. I'd gladly take other disconfirmed characters like Shadow too.

And it wouldn't be a Corrin position necessarily. It depends who is chosen. They don't necessarily have to be from a game coming up to get in. Though it certainly helps.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think Ken's unique attacks were from other characters tho.

They weren't. They're still SF references, and he had to get new animations because

A. Some of Ryu's attack animations were exclusive to him in the SF series
B. Ken focuses more on kicks, which is reflected in his neutral/up air and command kicks.

Likewise, I believe him having so many differences and still being an echo, besides his similar proportions, is because echoes are simply meant to have an equal matchup with the original fighter rather than the entire cast, and Ken's origin game shows how to do that without taking the easy way out.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I'd love that. Though to be fair, clones and semi-clones take a lot more work than Echoes do. Anyway, I just want Octolings for Echoes alone. I'd gladly take other disconfirmed characters like Shadow too.

And it wouldn't be a Corrin position necessarily. It depends who is chosen. They don't necessarily have to be from a game coming up to get in. Though it certainly helps.

I mean it'd be neat if there was a nicher Nintendo pick they just happened to be saving after the bigger ones (ala Incineroar) that was along for the ride in terms of sales at least because it happened to be part of the package deal. I mean, Joker and Banjo weren't like, the most go to characters they could have chosen, so who knows?

Maybe they promised a smaller Nintendo group who was totally gonna get a Smash 4 fighter that they'd totally get in next time and merely held off said character for the DLC under such a package deal assuring sales as the Fighter's Pass, because the base game was already pre-occupied with the higher priority new favourites and ballot winners they needed for positive reception on the fewer newcomers, but they still really wanted to bring in another new Nintendo franchise besides Splatoon...

 

[NessAtc.]

I mean it'd be neat if there was a nicher Nintendo pick they just happened to be saving after the bigger ones (ala Incineroar) that was along for the ride in terms of sales at least because it happened to be part of the package deal. I mean, Joker and Banjo weren't like, the most go to characters they could have chosen, so who knows?

Maybe they promised a smaller Nintendo group who was totally gonna get a Smash 4 fighter that they'd totally get in next time and merely held off said character for the DLC under such a package deal assuring sales as the Fighter's Pass, because the base game was already pre-occupied with the higher priority new favourites and ballot winners they needed for positive reception on the fewer newcomers, but they still really wanted to bring in another new Nintendo franchise besides Splatoon...

I like the cut of your gib, but I doubt that's exactly how it would go

 

[Door Key Pig]

I like the cut of your gib, but I doubt that's exactly how it would go

How so, may I ask?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Seems the VA's of Shulk and Elma are working on something. pic.twitter.com/4jo6LYPbXY

— Digi (@NoponDigi) August 1, 2019

So I think Elma’s chances just shot up

Around last November, Caitlin Glass (Elma’s VO) announced she had a NDA role that required an audition with a character she once voiced as reference. Two days ago, Adam Howden (Shulk’s VO) announced he too has an NDA role, and the only other time he’s teased such a role previously was before his Smash 4 Shulk reveal. It’s therefore likely Howden and Glass are working on the same thing - something Xenoblade related with both Shulk and Elma. X part 2 (as the Shulk voice was an option for the player avatar)? Xenoblade Warriors?

Whatever it is it would segue perfectly into an Elma Smash reveal, esp since X2 or Xenoblade Warriors could also be the secret Hiroyuki Sawano composition project...

 

[Flyboy]

<snip>
So I think Elma’s chances just shot up

Around last November, Caitlin Glass (Elma’s VO) announced she had a NDA role that required an audition with a character she once voiced as reference. Two days ago, Adam Howden (Shulk’s VO) announced he too has an NDA role, and the only other time he’s teased such a role previously was before his Smash 4 Shulk reveal. It’s therefore likely Howden and Glass are working on the same thing - something Xenoblade related with both Shulk and Elma. X part 2 (as the Shulk voice was an option for the player avatar)? Xenoblade Warriors?

Whatever it is it would segue perfectly into an Elma Smash reveal, esp since X2 or Xenoblade Warriors could also be the secret Hiroyuki Sawano composition project...

DONT DO THIS TO ME

DONT GIVE ME HOPE

 

[NessAtc.]

I believe it's been confirmed in an earlier tweet that Caitlin was working on something unrelated

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I believe it's been confirmed in an earlier tweet that Caitlin was working on something unrelated

Which earlier tweet?

 

[NessAtc.]

Which earlier tweet?

https://twitter.com/KiruseiNagisa/status/1156766677771665408

I don't believe she confirmed it herself, what with NDA and all, but here's where I heard it

 

[Rie Sonomura]

https://twitter.com/KiruseiNagisa/status/1156766677771665408

I don't believe she confirmed it herself, what with NDA and all, but here's where I heard it

Until there’s confirmation from Glass herself I’ll remain skeptical on that claim

 

[Us3inMN]

Well the games that have stood out for me this years are;
Kingdom Hearts 3
Resident Evil 2: Remake
Sekiro
Deltarune
Mortal Combat 11
Mario Maker 2
Cadence Of Hyrule
Bloodstained
Fire Emblem: Three Houses
I'd also keep an eye out for Doom Eternal, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion, Death Stranding

Calling it now: Death Stranding will be terrible or end up being a big gottem and actually be Silent Hills upon release.
Also Doom Eternal will probably get some stuff at the VGA's.

 

[KingBroly]

Well the games that have stood out for me this years are;
Kingdom Hearts 3
Resident Evil 2: Remake
Sekiro
Deltarune
Mortal Combat 11
Mario Maker 2
Cadence Of Hyrule
Bloodstained
Fire Emblem: Three Houses
I'd also keep an eye out for Doom Eternal, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion, Death Stranding

I can't see RE2 Remake being there because it's a remake. KH3 was a mess. Sekiro was solid but still many people complained about how hard it is because they don't actually like video games; therefore it will get unjustly mired by Judges. Deltarune can't be judged until it's done. MK11 is not GOTY material. Neither is SMM2, Cadence or Bloodstained. I haven't given FETH enough playtime to put it out there.

 

[Flyboy]

I can't see RE2 Remake being there because it's a remake. KH3 was a mess. Sekiro was solid but still many people complained about how hard it is because they don't actually like video games; therefore it will get unjustly mired by Judges. Deltarune can't be judged until it's done. MK11 is not GOTY material. Neither is SMM2, Cadence or Bloodstained. I haven't given FETH enough playtime to put it out there.

this entire post really ain't it chief

 

[StormC]

The Banjo-Kazooie Smash Ultimate Fighter Pack will be dubbed the game of the year.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 man. Definitely best game this year so far for me.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

My top 3 games this year so far gotta be MM2, RE2 and DMC5. Doom Eternal will probably take the cake by the end of it, but im also excited for Luigi and Astral Chain.

 

[MrElectroG64]

Whelp, finished another echo fighter list. I have one more I’d like to make then I’ll probably give it a rest for a long time and move back to traditional movesets. Enjoy!

 

[OrpheusTelos]

RE2 currently has my spot for Game of the Year, but damn Astral Chain might be a close contender if it ends up being anywhere near as good as it looks. Platinum Games owns my soul and I will happily shell out any amount of money for whatever they make.