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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Rie Sonomura

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Ok so we all know Byleth came the same week as the Astral Chain spirits which were NEW.

but were Hero, Banjo and Terry announced the same week as a THEMED spirit event (aka no new spirits) or a tournament? Initial reveals only
 

MooMew64

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I think some transparency would go a long way for this Challenger Pack. I realize they did tell us that we'd get the fighter in "June". But Nintendo is also shown...next to nothing.

Certainly, Pokemon is part of the brand, but it's still frustrating that I have legitimately no idea what to expect in the Fall or Winter coming up. I want to know what I want to save money for (aside from potentially getting a Next Gen console). Pokemon news was great, and I was excited to see Pokemon Snap get some love, but I still want to see what's going on with Mario, or Zelda, and most of all...getting this damn ARMS character out of the way, because the discussions I've been having with people are cyclical in nature and generally uninteresting beyond the same points everybody brings up. I'm going crazy. I literally posted, "X MINUTES" every hour just to feel something. I don't even feel the curve in my spine anymore, only existential dread.

Anyway, if they're going to delay the fighter then they have a responsibility to announce that information early enough so that they don't appear to be leading fans on.

It really just comes down to the fact that we got Volume 2 announced in September, got CP5 in January, got a little news on where the fighter for CP6 comes from. So essentially, the last two DLC characters (I love Byleth and am excited to play as ARMS characters) were a relatively divisive pick, and then an unknown. This has been the state of speculation since September.

I'm usually positive, but man. It would be REALLY GREAT to get some Smash news and then silence for another 3 months.
The silence is just really confusing to me. Like, would it really have been impossible to do a Direct this month like they normally would have anyways? Other companies are getting things together, why can't Nintendo? It's just weird, although I won't pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes with them: There probably are factors we're not aware of that is causing them to be so sporadic with news.
 

Trevenant

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I say just report it if you feel it breaks any rules.
I don't think it actually does break any rules but it would be nice if they decided to contribute to the discussion instead of constantly repeating the same stuff. Either way I don't really want to derail anything but thanks anyway.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I don't think it actually does break any rules but it would be nice if they decided to contribute to the discussion instead of constantly repeating the sensible stuff. Either way I don't really want to derail anything but thanks anyway.
I honestly can't explain it in public, cause that'd just be making an example out of a user. And that's not cool nor ever was. But that's a given that nobody should be dogpiled on or used as a punching bag. We should be better than that.
 

Nanami77

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I think some transparency would go a long way for this Challenger Pack. I realize they did tell us that we'd get the fighter in "June". But Nintendo is also shown...next to nothing.

Certainly, Pokemon is part of the brand, but it's still frustrating that I have legitimately no idea what to expect in the Fall or Winter coming up. I want to know what I want to save money for (aside from potentially getting a Next Gen console). Pokemon news was great, and I was excited to see Pokemon Snap get some love, but I still want to see what's going on with Mario, or Zelda, and most of all...getting this damn ARMS character out of the way, because the discussions I've been having with people are cyclical in nature and generally uninteresting beyond the same points everybody brings up. I'm going crazy. I literally posted, "X MINUTES" every hour just to feel something. I don't even feel the curve in my spine anymore, only existential dread.

Anyway, if they're going to delay the fighter then they have a responsibility to announce that information early enough so that they don't appear to be leading fans on.

It really just comes down to the fact that we got Volume 2 announced in September, got CP5 in January, got a little news on where the fighter for CP6 comes from. So essentially, the last two DLC characters (I love Byleth and am excited to play as ARMS characters) were a relatively divisive pick, and then an unknown. This has been the state of speculation since September.

I'm usually positive, but man. It would be REALLY GREAT to get some Smash news and then silence for another 3 months.
Wow, I really need to get off this sinking ship. The state of speculation is so horrible rn.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Didn’t someone say something about a 7/11 ad? When does that go down again?
 

Trevenant

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I honestly can't explain it in public, cause that'd just be making an example out of a user. And that's not cool nor ever was. But that's a given that nobody should be dogpiled on or used as a punching bag. We should be better than that.
I hope no one thought I was dogpiling. I accidentally wrote sensible instead of same so I edited that into the post. Either way I think they should try not to repeat the same stuff at least a little less. Sorry for derailing discussion before but I just wanted to clear that up.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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The resource is "time" and time alone. That's the only thing that would've worked.
Eh, I still think they could have at least benefited from someone who knew how to develop for the Switch (I believe Koei Techmo's engine for Fire Emblem Warriors was used for Fire Emblem: Three Houses). It certainly wouldn't have changed the content, but it may have improved the game's optimization and/or presentation.

The anime does prove to be both detrimental and helpful. The series only released as an anime in some regions, and it wouldn't be a juggernaut franchise without the merchandise.

There was really no option but to keep it tied together to make sure there's enough money made.
I've known this for a while now. I just hope we'll get a great Pokémon RPG that doesn't make me "what if" it to death. Were I the owner of the biggest multimedia franchise in the world, I'd install a revolving door of dev teams so that we can have our yearly releases for the anime, and an actual 3 year dev cycle to keep up the quality. I know it already has an A team and a B team, but the B team only works on smaller projects it seems.

Though I suppose this line of thinking is why I'm not the owner of the biggest multimedia franchise in the world. lol
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Eh, I still think they could have at least benefited from someone who knew how to develop for the Switch (I believe Koei Techmo's engine for Fire Emblem Warriors was used for Fire Emblem: Three Houses). It certainly wouldn't have changed the content, but it may have improved the game's optimization and/or presentation.
You make it sound like they had the time to implement this stuff. They didn't. It wasn't just the number of employees. That hurts a bit, but they couldn't do more than clean up a few bugs with extra people.

I forgot to mention another important thing too; the one thing they actually did wrong was lie about the model reusage. Being honest would've gone a long way.

I've known this for a while now. I just hope we'll get a great Pokémon RPG that doesn't make me "what if" it to death. Were I the owner of the biggest multimedia franchise in the world, I'd install a revolving door of dev teams so that we can have our yearly releases for the anime, and an actual 3 year dev cycle to keep up the quality. I know it already has an A team and a B team, but the B team only works on smaller projects it seems.

Though I suppose this line of thinking is why I'm not the owner of the biggest multimedia franchise in the world. lol
Yeah, there could be cool spin-offs, but a new dev team won't do much of anything. Remember, the dev team isn't responsible for it having little time to be worked on.

What we need is more filler seasons of Pokemon. A second dev team might be plausible if one focuses on gameplay and one focuses on graphics/presentation, though. But that costs a lot of money too to even do that. Switching out a team for another wouldn't give them enough time. They need a lot of employees, like double the amount, and to both be working on separate areas on the project. And it's a maybe if they can do a lot more.

The anime don't release simply yearly; they're based upon hard advertising the games. The only way to change the anime is to delay it so you can delay the game. They're tied too hard at the hips, unfortunately.
 
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slrigeigdew

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Wow, I really need to get off this sinking ship. The state of speculation is so horrible rn.
It's too dry is the problem. We don't even have secondary discussion topics like new spirits or ads to talk about.

I think it'll pick back up when they reveal the ARMS Fighter. How long that will last will depend on how much they show off the next fighter.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Don't get us wrong, we are frustrated, but I'm pretty sure all occurrences of "this wait is ruining my life" is hyperbole.
To be fair, a lot of people can't even work due to the pandemic, so it's far more stressful on some than others.

I wasn't able to return to work for almost 3 months myself.

...I just really am not that bothered, though. It's just a game. I was hoping to try out ARMS before I work, but eh. Unless it magically comes out today, well.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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You make it sound like they had the time to implement this stuff. They didn't. It wasn't just the number of employees. That hurts a bit, but they couldn't do more than clean up a few bugs with extra people.
Optimization is based on code structure, which means it's not something you just do afterward. I believe adding people who know how best to go about this right from the start would sitll improve optimization even given the same amount of time, as there would be less issues to begin with. It wouldn't solve all the problems, but I think it's reasonable to expect that it would make at least some of them less aggressive.

Yeah, there could be cool spin-offs, but a new dev team won't do much of anything. Remember, the dev team isn't responsible for it having little time to be worked on.

What we need is more filler seasons of Pokemon. A second dev team might be plausible if one focuses on gameplay and one focuses on graphics/presentation, though. But that costs a lot of money too to even do that. Switching out a team for another wouldn't give them enough time. They need a lot of employees, like double the amount, and to both be working on separate areas on the project. And it's a maybe if they can do a lot more.

The anime don't release simply yearly; they're based upon hard advertising the games. The only way to change the anime is to delay it so you can delay the game. They're tied too hard at the hips, unfortunately.
I don't think you get what I meant. My line of thinking is that if you have 3 different dev teams work on 3 different generations at a time, the first dev team would still get one year, but the second one would get two since the first team had their game released to meet the quota, and the third team would have three years. After that, all three teams would get three years of time to make their games, and you'd still meet the quota. Sure it'd be costly, but considering how wealthy The Pokémon company is and how they can make millions on barely different "ultimate" versions of the games they just released, I feel like they could afford something like this. (Also, I believe I've been told that this is how Assassin's Creed works.)

It's about using the extra manpower to artificially increase time as a resource, not adding too many cooks to the kitchen.

The filler arc approach could also work (and is definitely more practical), especially under the current format where they can just focus on whatever they want. Hopefully that's what the new format is for.
 
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Nekoo

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I don't have anything to say beside that this situation about two Pokémon direct in a row and us not even able to know a single fighter is absolutely ridiculous.
What the actual **** Nintendo?
 

Nanami77

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To be fair, a lot of people can't even work due to the pandemic, so it's far more stressful on some than others.

I wasn't able to return to work for almost 3 months myself.

...I just really am not that bothered, though. It's just a game. I was hoping to try out ARMS before I work, but eh. Unless it magically comes out today, well.
We literally had massive riots, protests, and gatherings a few weeks ago and everything is opening back up.

I get the pandemic is still going on, but it surprises me that people are still treating things like it was in March/April, even though “quarantine” is technically over for now.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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We literally had massive riots, protests, and gatherings a few weeks ago and everything is opening back up.
All the more reason to be stressed.

I get the pandemic is still going on, but it surprises me that people are still treating things like it was in March/April, even though “quarantine” is technically over for now.
Not to get too political, but I kind of feel that "for now" is the key word here. I don't know what's going to happen in the near future, but I don't think the problem is solved (on top of people still needing to get their jobs back), and it's definitely understandable to worry until it is. Don't overdo it, that only hurts you, but it's still understandable that you do.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Optimization is based on code structure, which means it's not something you just do afterward. I believe adding people who know how best to go about this right from the start would sitll improve optimization even given the same amount of time. It wouldn't solve all the problems, but I think it's reasonable to expect that it would make at least some of them less aggressive.
That still takes time, to be fair.

I don't think you get what I meant. My line of thinking is that if you have 3 different dev teams work on 3 different generations at a time, the first dev team would still get one year, but the second one would get two since the first team had their game released to meet the quota, and the third team would have three years. After that, all three teams would get three years of time to make their games, and you'd still meet the quota. Sure it'd be costly, but considering how wealthy The Pokémon company is and how they can make millions on barely different "ultimate" versions of the games they just released, I feel like they could afford something like this. (Also, I believe I've been told that this is how Assassin's Creed works.)
Well, they can't really split up the "anime" itself, to be fair. That follows a pretty strict timeline. The games, yes.

It's about using the extra manpower to artificially increase time as a resource, not adding too many cooks to the kitchen.
It doesn't really... work that way. Not that easily. You'd need twice the size at least to get anything similar.

The filler arc approach could also work (and is definitely more practical), especially under the current format where they can just focus on whatever they want. Hopefully that's what the new format is for.
It won't work. Filler is massively hated too much to ever try again. Pokemon Chronicles and Pokemon Orange Islands went over super poorly. The former went over a bit better only because the other characters were used. The latter was scoffed at for adding almost nothing but some development for Charizard at best.

Note I did enjoy OI solely because it had good choreography. The last filler season was Battle Frontier, but it was directly based upon the games and they could work that in right. That's why it went over fine. It also had some good battles despite the filler. It's important the filler is based upon an extra event in the games. Right now, they probably won't have that option because DLC is a core part, not an extra piece anymore. They'd have to make up a random season. It's not impossible, but trust me, filler is very much hated in anime. It shouldn't be, but it is.

We literally had massive riots, protests, and gatherings a few weeks ago and everything is opening back up.

I get the pandemic is still going on, but it surprises me that people are still treating things like it was in March/April, even though “quarantine” is technically over for now.
Quarantine is definitely not "over". There's still some hard rules on the extra stuff you need to wear. There's many places that aren't open up fully yet. A lot of dine-in areas are still closed.

It's over when walk-ins no longer are hampered. Even with still wearing masks, which isn't a big deal. I wouldn't even call it technical over either. There's still too much unavailable for people. And not everyone can do a drive-in for stuff. That's because people don't always drive, leaving them with no option at some places.
 
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Arcanir

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As a counterpoint to your last point though, Intelligent Systems was also making the jump to the Switch, and they made the best Fire Emblem game since Fire Emblem Awakening. It's not really a good excuse. It's the deadlines and from what I hear, small development team that made the games teeming with missed potential. I know why this is, I just really rather the series not go in this direction.
To be fair, while Three Houses is excellent even it had its own cut corners. For instance, one route feels like it got cut off with another having a completely dropped plotline, assets are reused quite a bit with two routes having nearly the exact same structure, and there some animation quirks here and there (though thankfully they're better hidden). It's still a phenomenal game, but even with the help from Koei and delays IS did have their own struggles when moving to an HD console.

That's not to say that SwSh should be given a complete pass as there are legitimate criticisms to be had with the game, just that TH had its own woes that did come as a result of the shift.
 

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You know what really scare me.
It's the idea that we might get News on the ARMS fighter and nothing else.
Complete silence until the next Direct that could be whenever but probably september.
 

Nanami77

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You know what really scare me.
It's the idea that we might get News on the ARMS fighter and nothing else.
Complete silence until the next Direct that could be whenever but probably september.
Its a Gen 8 Pokemon anyway, its not worth getting upset if we don’t see FP7
 

Evil Trapezium

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Did Sakurai ever comment on how the pandemic affected development? I've seen people throw around that he did but I've never seen an article about it...
From PushDustin's twitter:
 
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MooMew64

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You know what really scare me.
It's the idea that we might get News on the ARMS fighter and nothing else.
Complete silence until the next Direct that could be whenever but probably september.
I'm more curious as to why it's already almost the end of June and we don't know what this year's holiday title is. Like, after Paper Mario next month, we know absolutely nothing about anything, and there's no way BotW2 and Metroid Prime 4 are anywhere close to ready.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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You know what really scare me.
It's the idea that we might get News on the ARMS fighter and nothing else.
Complete silence until the next Direct that could be whenever but probably september.
That would have struck me as unlikely at one point, but I'm coming around to that as a possibility more and more. Showing off the ARMS fighter on the 30th and then not getting anything till late July or early August hardly feels out of step with the rate and significance of Nintendo reveals as of late.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm more curious as to why it's already almost the end of June and we don't know what this year's holiday title is. Like, after Paper Mario next month, we know absolutely nothing about anything, and there's no way BotW2 and Metroid Prime 4 are anywhere close to ready.
That was probably hit harder development-wise than some things. That or they're spreading out their information for the year due to being impossible to have a Direct. Zelda needs an outright showcase like Pokemon does to work. You can't drop a main game like this over Twitter. TOK is not a big deal since PM isn't as popular as it once was. It's not a core game at all.
 

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If anything, the stress and challenges of this year have only strengthened the importance of entertainment and escapism in the lives of people. Is it necessarily healthy if the only thing you're living for is to play new video games? No, that should realistically be filled by a general sense of belonging in your life from friends, family, community, higher values you live to fulfill, and the feeling that you do have an impact in the lives of others. However, there's really nothing wrong with having a hobby and taking a few hours to veg out and enjoy it, especially when the going gets tough. Reprieve from an unchangeable situation is far better mentally than continually making it the centre of your life. There's only so many times you can get fed a news story about the sickness, injustice, and destruction occurring in the world before it gets to you.

It's very understandable why people are upset at the lack of many announcements outside of Pokemon. Many (including myself, honestly) just want some break from reality and a return to normality. Likewise, utilizing entertainment is an extremely common way to accomplish this. As such, to see sudden radio silence from these avenues can be frustrating, especially when those providing this entertainment are either communicating poorly or not at all as to why we're being left in the dark.
 

Cosmic77

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I know people are getting impatient, but at least we're seeing more proof that new reveals aren't completely out the window for 2020.

I thought for sure two Pokemon Directs in a row would reassure people, but I'm still seeing a lot of pessimism. Not sure why though. If something as big as Pokemon can keep on chugging along, then I'm sure Nintendo wasn't as effected by COVID-19 as people thought.


So with Ring Fit Adventure having sold 1mil retail in Japan (and apparently being the first new IP to hit that mark since Splatoon) even with supply problems, and going multi-million worldwide, what’s your take on Ring Fit Trainer in Smash? They had a spirit event a while back, which probably hinders a bit and they may have just missed the mark with Ultimate... but then again we have ARMS happening.
I don't necessarily think the Spirits are hard deconfirms, but I do wonder if Nintendo cared enough for the IP to blindly promote it with a character before they had any assurance the series would be a success. Part of the reason why ARMS may have gotten a fighter is because the game had decent sales and Nintendo knew they'd be doing something with the IP in the future. Nintendo may have not known whether or not they'd do anything with Ring Fit going forward if the game bombed, which may have made them hesitant to commit to a character.

Then again, maybe they'd want to add a character for the exact purpose of ensuring the IP didn't die out.
 

SKX31

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I don't have anything to say beside that this situation about two Pokémon direct in a row and us not even able to know a single fighter is absolutely ridiculous.
What the actual **** Nintendo?
*Us outside Nintendo HQ, July 2020, Colorized: *

E289C02F-D77C-4DB8-885F-6410EDA64E37-2.jpg


That was probably hit harder development-wise than some things. That or they're spreading out their information for the year due to being impossible to have a Direct. Zelda needs an outright showcase like Pokemon does to work. You can't drop a main game like this over Twitter. TOK is not a big deal since PM isn't as popular as it once was. It's not a core game at all.
Would have to re-check things, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo follows a "Summer of" schedule a la what Keighley is doing. Partly because reveals have been sparse, partly because they might not have enough confidence they can pull off an ordinary Direct after the March mini.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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It won't work. Filler is massively hated too much to ever try again. Pokemon Chronicles and Pokemon Orange Islands went over super poorly. The former went over a bit better only because the other characters were used. The latter was scoffed at for adding almost nothing but some development for Charizard at best.

Note I did enjoy OI solely because it had good choreography. The last filler season was Battle Frontier, but it was directly based upon the games and they could work that in right. That's why it went over fine. It also had some good battles despite the filler. It's important the filler is based upon an extra event in the games. Right now, they probably won't have that option because DLC is a core part, not an extra piece anymore. They'd have to make up a random season. It's not impossible, but trust me, filler is very much hated in anime. It shouldn't be, but it is.
Yeah but now they have 8 whole games to take their filler from. Instead of having "more of the same, but now I don't care", they could easily make a cool story that fleshes out some legendary or mythical Pokémon. Though I suppose the lighthearted tone of the series could keep them from doing too particularly interesting or wide-scale...

Still though, if they can make a filler arc that can be enjoyable in its own right, I have faith that the anime fans will enjoy it instead of going "THIS ISN'T THE NEXT GENERATION REEEEEEE!!!"
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah but now they have 8 whole games to take their filler from. Instead of having "more of the same, but now I don't care", they could easily make a cool story that fleshes out some legendary or mythical Pokémon. Though I suppose the lighthearted tone of the series could keep them from doing too particularly interesting or wide-scale...

Still though, if they can make a filler arc that can be enjoyable in its own right, I have faith that the anime fans will enjoy it instead of going "THIS ISN'T THE NEXT GENERATION REEEEEEE!!!"
The anime is made strictly to advertise the games. It has to be filler content from the specific games being advertised.

...They could do filler based upon the next Let's Go games, though~

Would have to re-check things, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo follows a "Summer of" schedule a la what Keighley is doing. Partly because reveals have been sparse, partly because they might not have enough confidence they can pull off an ordinary Direct after the March mini.
This makes sense. They had one made for March before the pandemic hit them hard. They can't do a Mini-Direct easily anymore.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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*Us outside Nintendo HQ, July 2020, Colorized: *
Hey look, it's a 2020 joke I can actually relate to. lol

The anime is made strictly to advertise the games. It has to be filler content from the specific games being advertised.

...They could do filler based upon the next Let's Go games, though~
Eh, they could do something with Zarude that isn't just...having it exist. Or Cubfu or Cylarex or whatever if they don't use them in the main story/slap them on a movie and call it a day.

Perhaps an arc devoted to the new Pokémon Go exclusive...is Meltan a mythical Pokémon or just a legendary?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Eh, they could do something with Zarude that isn't just...having it exist. Or Cubfu or Cylarex or whatever if they don't use them in the main story/slap them on a movie and call it a day.

Perhaps an arc devoted to the new Pokémon Go exclusive...is Meltan a mythical Pokémon or just a legendary?
Isle of Armor/Crown of Tundra is the main game, so it wouldn't be filler anyway.

Meltan is a Mythical I think? Also, wasn't that already a thing in Sun/Moon's anime? Even evolved to Melmetal.
 

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Meltan is a Mythical I think? Also, wasn't that already a thing in Sun/Moon's anime? Even evolved to Melmetal.
Yeah, I was referring to the next Pokémon Go exclusive with Meltan as the example. You know there's going to be another one to go with the next Let's Go games.

Basically, any one of these things could be used to make an entirely new arc rather than just cramming it all into the first arc/a bunch of movies and then needing a new mainline title for the next season. I think there's a decent chance that they'll do this depending on whether or not the current pace is sustainable.
 
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I know people are getting impatient, but at least we're seeing more proof that new reveals aren't completely out the window for 2020.

I thought for sure two Pokemon Directs in a row would reassure people, but I'm still seeing a lot of pessimism. Not sure why though. If something as big as Pokemon can keep on chugging along, then I'm sure Nintendo wasn't as effected by COVID-19 as people thought.
I think there's an assumption that Game Freak/The Pokemon Company march to the beat of their own drum, somewhat separate from Nintendo in terms out output and/or reveals. Whatever one can say about the innovation or polish of Pokemon titles (or lack thereof), the brand does seem to put out news or updates at a decent pace and consistency.
 

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Yeah, I was referring to the next Pokémon Go exclusive with Meltan as the example. You know there's going to be another one to go with the next Let's Go games.

Basically, any one of these things could be used to make an entirely new arc rather than just cramming it all into the first arc/a bunch of movies and then needing a new mainline title for the next season. I think there's a decent chance that they'll do this depending on whether or not the current pace is sustainable.
I think it's safe to say that the movies aren't stopping either. Though to be fair, what's the last Sun/Moon movie? Haven't they cut down on the advertisement movies a bit? I know there's some Gen 1 movies to push Let's Go/Go in general, though. So it might be plausible. But you're going to need a lot of Pokemon to justify an entire year long filler arc.

Worth noting that a lot of Japanese companies actually have had delays in episodes. We've had delays in episodes on Toonami too. Live action shows are also hard affected.
 
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